[00:52] <Riddell> enough testing for one day
[00:52] <Riddell> more tomorrow
[02:48]  * ScottK is gonna do some testing.  The existing KNE install on the netbook is about to die.
[02:48] <ScottK> (reinstall will also be ext3 for the final one because some of the file corruption reports have scared me off ext4.)
[02:53] <dtchen> yeah, I'm currently grabbing the Kubuntu alt amd64 for maco, whose / (ext4) died
[02:54] <dtchen> interestingly enough, my online ext3 -> ext4 has been rock-solid
[04:10] <shtylman> 1 day!!!!!!!!!! woooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
[04:11] <rgreening> yay
[04:12]  * ScottK is doing the last ISO test for Kubuntu Netbook.
[04:12] <rgreening> schweet
[04:12]  * rgreening is nursing a thrown out back
[04:13] <ScottK> Please don't ever use the words rgreening and nursing in the same sentence again.  Ever!
[04:13]  * rgreening has sore nipps
[04:14] <rgreening> :)
[04:14] <shtylman> haha
[04:14] <dtchen> not even with hot karaoke action?
[04:14] <rgreening> lol
[04:14] <rgreening> only a couple of more weeks to karoke redux
[04:14] <rgreening> :)
[04:14] <rgreening> this time more booze is required
[04:19] <ScottK> For us.
[04:59] <rgreening> lol
[05:15] <maco> y'all have fun with that karaoke
[05:19] <maco> i was so confused when i logged in. "a stacking window manager! what is going on?! oh..right...kwin...need to install xmonad"
[08:17] <Mamarok> Riddell: check markey's dent of a few minutes ago:
[08:17] <Mamarok> "Why on earth do some distros limit the maximum number of open files to 1024 by default? You can't even build Qt from source with that."
[08:18] <markey> yep
[08:18] <markey> Fedora does it, and Kubuntu too
[08:18] <Mamarok> "Additionally, this will make random programs behave strangely and crash. We've got an Amarok bug report purely caused by this limit."
[08:18] <markey> resulted in this bug report for amarok:
[08:18] <markey> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211026
[08:18] <markey> I find that pretty serious
[08:18] <markey> and unnecessary too
[08:18] <Tm_T> Mamarok: I build Qt just fine, but I do have -j1
[08:19] <markey> why not 10,000 maximum by default?
[08:19] <markey> modern computers often need more than 1024
[08:19] <Mamarok> Tm_T: which makes it even worse, so you can't use the full capacity of your computer
[08:19] <Mamarok> we are not in the 80ies anymore :)
[08:20] <Tm_T> Mamarok: well, build time with -j1 and -j2 isn't different enough here to be bothered
[08:20] <markey> so anyway, there are other situations where this can happen to you too
[08:20] <_StefanS_> morning
[08:21] <Tm_T> markey: I know, just saying (:
[08:21] <Tm_T> I agree that kind of limit seems weird, what's the purpose?
[08:21] <markey> I've no idea
[08:22] <markey> my guess: security or performance concerns
[08:22] <markey> both are bogus
[08:22] <Tm_T> or "noone need more than that"
[08:22] <markey> or that...
[08:22] <markey> who knows when this limit was created, maybe 5 years ago
[08:22] <Tm_T> "if you do, don't do that"
[08:22] <Tm_T> markey: how about back in early 90's
[08:24] <Tm_T> sounds more like it to me
[08:33] <Mamarok> markey: is this limitation in Debian, too?
[08:35] <Tm_T> where is this limitation anyway?
[08:36] <markey> Mamarok: don't know
[08:37] <markey> Tm_T: in /etc/security/limits.conf
[08:38] <markey> I've changed mine to:
[08:38] <markey> *                soft     nofile          16384
[08:38] <markey> *                hard     nofile          16384
[08:38] <markey> works nicely
[08:42] <Mamarok> markey: I will file a bug on launchpad about that, then
[08:50] <Tm_T> markey: thanks
[08:52] <Tm_T> markey: hmm, where it's defaults come? I don't have that kind of lines here
[08:52] <Tm_T> markey: only commented examples
[08:53] <Mamarok> holy crap, how do I report a bug on launchpad? I go to bugs.launchpad.net, and there is nowhere a possibility to file a bug, wtf?
[08:54] <Tm_T> if the default value is hardcoded in some sources, and there's no patch related to it, upstream?
[08:55] <Mamarok> Riddell: how on earth do I file a bug on launchpad? There is not even an option for it on bugs.launchpad.net, no button to report a new bug, nowhere
[08:55] <Mamarok> (I am using edge btw)
[08:57] <jussi01> Mamarok: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[08:57] <jussi01> then click the report a bug on the right.
[08:57] <maco> didnt they get rid of the "report a bug" button?
[08:57] <jussi01> Mamarok: but using ubuntu-bug <package> is much easier
[08:57] <maco> on the basis that you ought to use ubuntu-bug?
[08:57] <jussi01> maco: still there on mine..
[08:58] <markey> Tm_T: dunno, I had to google that too
[08:58] <markey> forgot the details
[08:58] <Mamarok> jussi01: this is silly, why on earth is there no button to file a bug on that page? seriously
[08:59] <markey> aha, Ramon Cahenzli just dented this:
[08:59] <jussi01> Mamarok: no idea
[08:59] <markey> "I agree, we've had completely weird and obscure MySQL problems because of 1024 file limit. Now it's set to 2 million."
[08:59] <Mamarok> jussi01: that link you gave me, if you click on "Report a bug, you are redirected to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[08:59] <markey> so this issue is pretty common
[09:00] <jussi01> Mamarok: o.O
[09:00] <jussi01> thats stupid
[09:00] <Mamarok> yeah, totally, that makes launchpad useless if one can't even file a bug
[09:01]  * jussi01 doesnt get it.
[09:01] <jussi01> WHo made the decision?
[09:01] <jussi01> and why ?
[09:01] <jussi01> o.O
[09:01] <maco> bugsquad or qa or something
[09:01] <maco> to get better quality bug reports
[09:02] <jussi01> How do I then file a bug in launchpad? or the community?
[09:02] <davmor2> jussi01: they didn't get rid of the button because new users wouldn't know how to file.
[09:02] <davmor2> jussi01: read the page it links to it tells you
[09:02] <Mamarok> maco: well, tell me how on earth I am supposed to use Launchpad then if all I get are redirects to help pages? Tah is what I call a broken tool
[09:02] <Mamarok> that*
[09:02] <markey> you only imagine bugs. they don't exist :)
[09:02] <maco> you can tell it not to redirect you...
[09:03] <maco> they only redirect on /ubuntu/...
[09:03] <maco> anything else it works
[09:03] <jussi01> Mamarok:
[09:03] <jussi01> If for some reason you cannot file a bug through the Apport tool you can file one via Launchpad. When doing so please ensure that you have determined which package it should be filed against. Read 'finding the right package' for guidance or use Launchpad's package search feature. To file a bug against a specific package use a url similar to the following, http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/PACKAGENAME/+filebug?no-redirect, where
[09:03] <jussi01>  PACKAGENAME is the name of the source package about which you want to file the bug. In the event that you want to request a piece of software be packaged for Ubuntu please follow the instructions in the wiki. To report a bug when you don't know the package name https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
[09:03] <Mamarok> davmor2: well, can you give me a direct link for opening a bug report? It is a bad security bug for all Ubuntu related systems
[09:03] <davmor2> Mamarok: ^
[09:04] <jussi01> but still, the fact that its not discoverable is not user friendly at all. why doesnt it just warn, say you should be ussing apport?
[09:04] <davmor2> Mamarok: can you not use ubuntu-bug?
[09:04] <davmor2> jussi01: because we need to get new users away from doing it the bad way
[09:05] <davmor2> jussi01: you may give good bug reports with all relevant info etc however joe public give this doesn't work fix it
[09:05] <maco> grr i cnat find the how-to-redirect in my email
[09:06] <Mamarok> davmor2: well, I never did, always used Launchpad, and hell I know how to file a good bug report, no need to hold hands, here, I am not a noob, somebody should tell Launchpad that this is a serious problem if not even edge testers can file reports without silly redirects
[09:06] <maco> davmor2: (hypothetical) if my system crashes and cant get online, and i want to report this from my windows machine...
[09:06] <Mamarok> davmor2: not against you, just that limitation drives me mad
[09:06] <jussi01> davmor2: so, you think its better to have a bug reporting website with no (finadable) bug reporting ability?
[09:07] <Mamarok> brillaint, now I got a oops
[09:12] <davmor2> Mamarok, jussi01, maco: Right first off I agree with you guys, however you are all technical people with an understanding of the system.  The idea initial was to stop all manual report but it was argued then that, that would be a bad thing.  It was also a need to promote apport/ubuntu-bug as a way to report bugs.  The apport hooks pulling in log files etc that the devs need to fix the issue at hand.   Personally I 
[09:12] <davmor2> I did like someone's idea of making it karma based
[09:13] <Mamarok> davmor2: well, since I am a beta tester and a member of a bug suqad I should be allowed to file bugs without silly restrictions
[09:13] <Mamarok> and I disabled aport because it simply runs wild on Kubuntu for non-crashes and distracts me from working
[09:13] <davmor2> Mamarok: you still can just add a bookmark with the ?no-redirect
[09:14] <Mamarok> also, it's hardly filing useful reports, from what I have experienced so far, most of the time it ends in a no-report.
[09:14] <Mamarok> davmor2: well, now that I know of I sure will, but this is stupid nontheless, there are quite a lot of non-noobs who seem to not know that, see the discussion we just had
[09:14] <davmor2> Mamarok: again take it up with the powers that be I have no control over it :(
[09:15] <Mamarok> and seriously, aport is useless for KDE
[09:19] <Mamarok> so, whom do I subscribe for that report? I found at least 20 reports all linked to that apparently
[09:19] <Mamarok> and I actually didn't file a new one, but added my comment to one of the existing ones
[09:21] <Mamarok> hm, subscribing Riddell might be a good idea, he can send that further up, is Sebastien Bacher still the default Gnome guy?
[09:21] <jussi01> apport on kde is a night mare... 20,000 little windows...
[09:22] <Mamarok> guess why I disabled it, its totally useless
[09:41] <neversfelde> agateau: I do not know what and when, but something seem to have fixed the problem with no wireless connection after suspend. I cannot reproduce this problem at the moment.
[09:42] <agateau> neversfelde: let's hope it last for 6 months :)
[09:42] <neversfelde> hehe
[10:29] <Sput> Mamarok: funnily enough, Gentoo has that limit too (seems to be the default?), and we can compile Qt and anything else without problems O_o
[10:30] <Sput> I've never seen "too many open files"
[10:37] <markey> Sput: just a matter of luck
[10:38] <markey> obviously it can happen in a lot of situations
[10:38] <markey> depending on your use case
[10:38] <Sput> markey: yeah... but nevertheless strange, after all we're constantly compiling stuffs
[10:39] <markey> e.g. if you do a mass copy with KIO, some functions currently don't queue it correctly
[10:39] <markey> so you can easily end up with 500 files at the same time
[10:39] <markey> just for that operation
[10:39] <markey> plus MySQL, strigi, etc pp
[10:40] <neversfelde> Mamarok: I agree, it should really be possible to file a bug report in an easy way
[11:53] <ewoerner> hi, is there a ppa for qt 4.6 already?
[11:55] <delight> I have a little prob with the battery-plasmoid on my laptop not beeing able to adjust the brightness of the screen since karmic ... on jaunty with kde 4.3.2 it was working good ... what package is this plasmoid in ? I would like to fill a bug about it
[11:55] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: I sent a message to kgmailnotier author. The result is that Kgmailnotifier is not affect by changes in Gmail, it uses a completly different approach, it checks new email by downloading an atom file for the account. The only problem is not works if kwallet is disabled.
[11:56] <sebas> delight: can you try with solid-powermanagement and see if that works?
[11:56] <sebas> delight: I'm the developer of that plasmoid
[11:56] <Lex79> ewoerner: not for now :)
[11:57] <sebas> delight: solid-powermanagement brightness set 50
[11:57] <sebas> for example
[11:59] <Riddell> ewoerner: qt 4.6 tech preview is in ~kubuntu-ppa experimental but not yet beta
[12:00] <delight> hello sebas: i know you are the developer ... good to see you here ... saw you in the ?ubunconf? 2008 ;) ... unfortunatly the command has no effect on my laptop Dell Latitude D830 since karmic
[12:01] <sebas> delight: then the applet is probably fine
[12:01] <delight> of course i can still adjust with the laptop function buttton
[12:01] <sebas> you'll want to look at DBus / kernel level
[12:02] <sebas> the layering is: plasmoid -> Solid -> HAL -> Kernel, top to bottom
[12:02] <Riddell> debfx: this might be your area ^^
[12:02] <sebas> delight: ah, didn't catch that nickname then
[12:02] <delight> sebas: i see ... so the problem is at a different place ... I got the gnome desktop additionaly on my laptop *which i don't use* ... i can try there to to make sure its some hardware/dbus/kernel problem
[12:02] <sebas> we probably need irc with photos or something
[12:02] <sebas> yes, trying gnome powermanager would make sense
[12:04] <delight> sebas: I'm not that often on IRC but I liked your talk about your vision of kde ... and I'm realy impressed on how it evoluated ... really the best desktop available to date and its getting even better ;)
[12:04] <sebas> glad it resonates :)
[12:10] <delight> just for the record it was ubucon 2007 in Krefeld but thats ok ;) ... I came across a nice article on the web the other day and i was impressed of the work the OpenSuse ppl invested into integrating firefox nicely ... even if its not for me no Suse fan ... I think thats something  that would be really great in the kubuntu distribution ... maybe for karmic+1 http://linuxcrunch.com/content/opensuse-112-perfect-kde-distribution
[12:10] <delight> point 8- KDE/Firefox integration
[12:38] <Riddell> delight: I think debfx had packages of that in his PPA
[12:39] <seaLne> since yesterdays updates kdm dosen't start on boot, i just get the first part of the kde startup splash (pic of disk) and it dosen't do anything after that (a manual restart of kdm fixes it but needed on each boot) i remember this occured a while back but was then fixed, can anyone remember what was causing it i can't seem to find the bug #
[13:05] <Riddell> seaLne: the image with the disk is ksplashx which should get killed when kdm starts, or you should be able to just click on it to make it go away?
[13:07] <seaLne> just updating another machine to see if it does it, and it doesn't hmm
[13:10] <JontheEchidna> anybody wanna take care of bug 460984?
[13:13] <seaLne> Riddell: hmm just rebooted the laptop that was having the problem and it booted fine this time, was around 7th oct that i had the problem before for a few days, weird
[13:13] <ScottK> Do we have the draft release notes up somewhere?
[13:32] <seele> ScottK: are you going to Fudruckers saturday for MD loco?
[13:33] <Riddell> ScottK: claydoh said he as working on the announcement last night but got called away and will start again this afternoon
[13:33] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  I got some stuff for agateau to add.
[13:34] <ScottK> seele: Not sure yet.  Elizabeth has ballet starting at 1 and Victoria (the 18 year old) is home from school with a fever today, so who knows what the weekend will bring.
[13:36] <seele> ScottK: kk let me know
[13:42] <agateau> ScottK: I already added some pics to the announcement
[13:43] <ScottK> agateau: Ah.   Good to know.  I want to make sure we get it right for the final.
[13:43] <agateau> ScottK: I would like to create a separate wiki page to explain how to configure indicator support in KDE apps,
[13:43] <ScottK> agateau: I think that's a good idea.
[13:43] <agateau> ScottK: any idea what the best place for this would be?
[13:44] <ScottK> agateau: No, I suck a wiki namespace.
[13:44] <agateau> ScottK: ok, I'm going to improvise then :)
[13:44] <ScottK> w.k.o/Kubuntu/KarmicConfigureIndicator maybe
[13:44] <ScottK> agateau: ^^
[13:48] <agateau> ScottK: sounds good, thanks
[13:56] <Riddell> ScottK: I'd like to rewrite the Netbook wiki page today to make it user focused if that makes sense
[13:56] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes.  Please.
[13:56] <Riddell> ScottK: and we should ponder about a Dot story too
[13:56] <ScottK> Riddell: Sounds reasonable.
[13:57] <ScottK> I had a minion that promised some docs on the wiki.  He seems to have vanished unfortunately.
[14:24] <mcas> hi
[14:24] <mcas> is anyone testing kubuntu desktop i386 entire disk?
[14:25] <mcas> ok i'll do it now
[14:27] <Riddell> mcas: yes please
[14:28] <mcas> thx
[14:31] <mcas> Riddell: should i start the live session and click install or can i use "installation" from the boot menu
[14:35] <Riddell> mcas: do a full live session if you can
[14:35] <Riddell> I'll do the install only option
[14:36] <mcas> k
[14:36] <mcas> i think i can do some more tests after this
[14:38] <agateau> ScottK: Riddell: Wiki page about Message Indicator: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KarmicKoala/ConfigureIndicators
[14:38] <agateau> If you want to proof-read
[14:38] <agateau> (was a bit too lazy to add screenshot for all apps...)
[14:57] <seele> agateau: do you know if there is any mechanism set up to gather feedback regarding notifications?
[14:58] <agateau> seele: not that I know of :/
[14:58] <ScottK> agateau: Do you have a moment for a gwenview question?
[14:58] <agateau> ScottK: about to enter the daily phone call :/
[14:58] <ScottK> OK.
[14:58] <agateau> ScottK: will ping you back
[14:58] <ScottK> agateau: Thanks.
[15:00]  * mcas takes kubuntu desktop i386 manual partitioning 
[15:00] <Sput> agateau: do you have a status update for a libindicate-qt that doesn't depend on gtk?
[15:02] <agateau> Sput: no :/
[15:02] <Sput> k
[15:02] <ScottK> agateau: Maybe a good question for the phone call?
[15:02] <agateau> ScottK: i am afraid not
[15:02] <ScottK> Oh well.
[15:02] <agateau> but do ping dbarth or tedg about this
[15:04] <ScottK> davidbarth: Ping ^^^
[15:04] <ScottK> Done
[15:04] <ScottK> dpm: Quassel just switched (in git for their next release) from Qt ts files to gettext for translations.  Once Lucid is open and I've uploaded a quassel that provides po files, is there a way we can get them into Launchpad early so translators can get an early shot at it?
[15:05] <agateau> ScottK: he is in the same phone call as me atm :)
[15:05] <ScottK> Maybe he multi-tasks
[15:10] <seele> ScottK: just got confirmation from Justin about Fudruckers, but I think we'll be there closer to 1.. you should stop by after you drop Elizabeth off at ballet
[15:11] <ScottK> seele: OK.  We'll see how that goes.
[15:22] <markey> anyone know some guy called Chipzz?
[15:33] <markey> ok the guy is just a random idiot
[15:33] <markey> not an ubuntu developer, thank $god
[15:34] <Tm_T> markey: nownow...
[15:34] <markey> no worth my time
[15:34] <markey> not
[15:35] <markey> 1995 called, it wants its IdiotZZ back
[15:35] <markey> :)
[15:35] <Tm_T> markey: please, that's not helping
[15:43] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: jockey is a KDE app, just not an official KDE app
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> it's been like that for the KDE apps we've made since the beginning
[15:50] <davidbarth> agateau: now, that we're finished with this call, do you have any hints about the bug?
[15:51] <agateau> davidbarth: the plasma bug you mentioned?
[15:51] <agateau> davidbarth: difficult to tell with that few information, I asked the reporter to add which application was closed
[15:59] <EagleScreen> update-notifier -d and -u are crashing with seg fault
[16:00] <EagleScreen> in jaunty
[16:00] <EagleScreen> sorry, update-notifier-kde -d and -u
[16:03] <EagleScreen> tomorrow 9.10 is released and update-notifier-kde in 9.04 is crashing
[16:24] <EagleScreen> why have you chnaged kaffeine by dragon in the last hour for karmic?
[16:28] <yuriy> last hour? wasn't that done a couple weeks ago?
[16:30] <ScottK> EagleScreen: It was done just around the beta time.
[16:30] <ScottK> Kaffeine is still in main and supported, just not installed by default.
[16:31] <EagleScreen> i am curious, why dragon in place of kaffeine?
[16:32] <debfx> really strange: when I boot with nomodeset, the brightness keys are handled just fine without powerdevil ...
[16:35] <Riddell> ScottK: do we want netbook edition linked from http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu/download in place of Kubuntu 8.04 ?
[16:35] <ScottK> Riddell: Sounds good to me.
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> EagleScreen: quality concerns, it's still in prereleases
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> dragon is known to be stable and do what it does well
[16:50] <smarter> JontheEchidna: Is it just me or does it still starts with a ridiculously small window from time to time?
[16:50] <JontheEchidna> I've not had that happen to me for a while
[16:51] <JontheEchidna> and I have been watching Doctor Who with it since Monday :x
[16:51]  * JontheEchidna can't wait for the November special
[16:52] <Riddell> there's a special in November?
[16:53] <JontheEchidna> yeah, "Waters of Mars"
[16:53] <Riddell> maybe I should have renewed my tv licence after all
[16:53] <davmor2> Riddell: surely that is what the t'interweb is for
[16:55] <Riddell> davmor2: ah I see you took notice of what I always said to you when you claimed that a cable tv connection is a necessity :)
[16:55] <Mamarok> Riddell: did you see that discussion in #u-devel about the open files limitation? we strongly suspect that being the problem of quite a few KDE apps crashes, and in Amarok
[16:55] <Mamarok> basically all apps that use a database can be affected by that
[17:15] <Riddell> ScottK: how's this? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Netbook
[17:16] <Mamarok> when is that exact release time tomorrow? I have the /topic for #kubuntu ready
[17:17] <Riddell> Mamarok: did briefly see the open files limitation discussion, it's not something I was even aware of existing
[17:18] <Riddell> Mamarok: they usually don't give a time to allow for any flexibility they might need, but it tends to be midday UTC
[17:18] <Mamarok> neither was I, it's markey who found out
[17:19] <Mamarok> ok, so I can push that /topic when it's time :)
[17:19] <Mamarok> and he has a fix for it, and since it's in the system I added that comment in one of the 20+ bugs that seem to be open for that problem
[17:20] <Mamarok> but apprently keybuk prefers to stay in the nineties :(
[17:21] <markey> Riddell: I think it would make sense to change the defaults for kubuntu, either to 4096 or 16384. this only requires adding two lines to /etc/security/limits.conf
[17:21] <markey> for the user however it's hard to change this
[17:21] <markey> most don't even know what has bitten them
[17:22] <Riddell> markey: it's not really something kubuntu can change without the rest of ubuntu doing it, we can try and convince them at UDS of course
[17:22] <markey> personally I don't care if gnomes crashes or not, they can set it to 16 for all I care
[17:22] <markey> "640kb should be enough for anybody"...
[17:23] <markey> otoh, gnome users also run kde applications, and thus it might affect us anyway
[17:23] <markey> so yes, changing it for all of ubuntu would be better
[17:23] <Riddell> markey: isn't keybuk's argument that this is only a soft limit and applications can ignore it if they want to?
[17:24] <markey> see, that's the same argument as Ted Tso had with Ext4: "Your apps are buggy. Rewrite them all."
[17:24] <markey> as it turned out, this attitude wasn't really so good
[17:24] <markey> Torvalds set him right
[17:24] <Mamarok> markey: and as soon as they use strigi or something similar they will run into problems
[17:25] <Mamarok> since there is a strigi frontend for Gnome
[17:26] <Mamarok> Riddell: the problem is that many apps run into that problem, not only Amarok, and its easier to fix in the system than rewrite many apps
[17:26] <markey> myself, I couldn't even build Qt without increasing the limit
[17:26] <Mamarok> even cron has the problem, so not even desktop related
[17:26] <markey> I think that's pretty good evidence that it's not adequate any more
[17:27] <ScottK> Riddell: Re: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Netbook - Yes.  Very nice.  Thanks.
[17:27] <Riddell> maco: ^^
[17:28] <maco> Riddell: thanks!
[17:29] <ScottK> maco: You did that?
[17:30] <Riddell> she requested it
[17:32] <ScottK> Ah.
[17:32] <ScottK> maco: Good idea.
[17:33] <maco> im writing a "hey! check out karmic! its cool!" blog post for geeksaresexy.net
[17:33] <maco> and kne only had a "here's the developer roadmap" page
[17:35] <markey> :)
[17:35] <markey> Karmic really is good
[17:35]  * markey enjoys it
[17:36] <Riddell> thanks markey :)
[17:36] <markey> oh btw, today I heard from a user that it crashed while upgrading from 9.04 to 9.10
[17:36] <markey> Mamarok also had a crash issue with the installer, iirc
[17:40] <Riddell> advice on that is always "send us the logs" /var/log/syslog , /var/log/dist-upgrade and /var/log/installer
[17:41] <dpm> ScottK, sorry for the delay in replying, I was busy with some other stuff and then had a call. Re: Quassel upload, if the package generates a pot file on build, it will be imported as soon as you upload it. Being the first time it is imported, we'll need to do a one time review. We'll see it on the imports queue and act on it, but just to make sure, simply ping me when you upload it and I can then have a look at it straight away
[17:41] <Mamarok> yep, Karmic is great, love it, very fast
[17:41] <ScottK> dpm: OK.  Thanks.
[17:41] <Mamarok> but I still have X server issues with my Radeon card, hope we soon get the latest Radeon drivers, those seem to be perfect now, 3D and all
[17:42] <Mamarok> the fglrx driver is suboptimal
[17:53] <Riddell> ScottK: http://gb.releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/karmic/ currently says we have a "Netbook live CD", which seems confusing since netbooks don't have CDs.  Does "Netbook live USB Image" seem less confusing?
[17:54] <ScottK> Riddell: It does.
[17:54] <ScottK> IIRC I asked slangasek about changing that and it was non-trivial, but I may misremember.
[17:54] <markey> I've heard the very latest Radeon drivers (from git) are excellent. apparently they solve all issues
[17:54] <markey> might be worth offering a PPA for that
[17:58] <JontheEchidna> hrm, new rekonq prerelease is looking pretty interesting
[18:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: and comes with a handy PPA :)
[18:01] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah, it does
[18:01]  * JontheEchidna terminates local build
[18:01] <jussi01> where?
[18:01]  * jussi01 wants...
[18:02] <JontheEchidna> ppa:f4l3/ppa
[18:02] <jussi01> huh?
[18:02] <JontheEchidna> add to software-properties-kde, will grab all the gpg infos
[18:02] <JontheEchidna> pretty sweet
[18:04] <Riddell> daily packages too
[18:04] <jussi01> nice
[18:05] <JontheEchidna> might be worth considering for 10.04 since it has KDE integration, and the same rendering capabilities as arora
[18:06] <Riddell> seems to be missing a menu bar
[18:07] <JontheEchidna> apparenlty it's intentional
[18:07] <Riddell> and not entirely daft, but probably screws over accessibility
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> whoa, sweet plasma-esque theming for the homepage
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> looks sorta like the empty-tab page for chrome
[18:08] <Mamarok> hm, we seem to run again into sound trouble because of pulseaudio, see #kubuntu
[18:09] <Riddell> I can't work out how to get back to that start page
[18:10] <jussi01> pulse is of the devil.
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: opening a new tab should do it
[18:10] <Riddell> aah
[18:11] <Mamarok> jussi01: the problem is that is is not configured for use with KDE and screws up everything, and I really have better things to do than debug users who installed that stuff, unless they really pay me for, and even then, I would probably only do this when starving, which I am still very far away
[18:12] <JontheEchidna> rekonq's config dialog seems to be unecessaryily using a tree view, blegh
[18:13] <jussi01> Mamarok: I repeat, pulse is of the devil.
[18:15] <JontheEchidna> setFaceType(KPageDialog::Tree); <- eww
[18:15] <Mamarok> nah, it's just horribly bad code and badly configured if not configured at all and the dev is a self-conscious arrogant a******
[18:15] <Mamarok> I know, I met that chap in Gran Canaria, really not recommendable
[18:20] <Mamarok> I mean, if on every release we have the same problem again and again it is getting really annoying
[18:21] <JontheEchidna> it's not like we can stop gnome from using it, which is where the problems come from
[18:22] <davmor2> hey Mamarok did you make it :P
[18:22] <ScottK> I don't have it, but it's on the kid's computer due to some educational thing I installed.  I can't say there have been any problems.
[18:22] <Mamarok> davmor2: make it? you mean reporting that bug?
[18:23] <davmor2> no pulse :D
[18:24] <davmor2> Mamarok: just being sarky
[18:25] <Mamarok> davmor2: well, I avoid it like a bad disease or a smelly dog, indeed
[18:26] <davmor2> Mamarok: I find it's much better than it was.  But then I've never really had any major issues with it like some have
[18:27] <Mamarok> well, apparently it is still the same old badly configured stuff, see #kubuntu
[18:28] <Mamarok> I am sick of it, really, I have spent all the time when people started with Jaunty debugging broken sound because of that, it is a PITA, there I said that bad word
[18:29] <davmor2> Mamarok: no the bad word of the day is respin
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> aah, much better: http://imagebin.ca/view/rdEMSnjf.html
[18:30] <Mamarok> davmor2: Bespin you mean?
[18:31] <Mamarok> never ever mentoin that in the amarok channel they might as well kill you
[18:31] <Mamarok> mention*
[18:31] <davmor2> Mamarok: No respin the thing they do to the iso's I'm trying to test
[18:31] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: you just couldn't help coding could you?
[18:31] <JontheEchidna> :P
[18:35] <JontheEchidna> I'd wish they'd capitalize things too, sorta unprofessional looking with rekonq all lowercase
[18:36] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I presume the tiny URL bar is a bug
[18:36] <JontheEchidna> tiny url bar?
[18:37] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: using the daily one I have a url bar only a few cm long and lots of space on the right of the toolbar
[18:38] <JontheEchidna> I'm not seeing that bug. Maybe I'm lucky
[18:43] <markey> pulse is of the devil indeed. or more precise: of juicy-lipped poettering
[18:44] <markey> thank your canonical bosses for playing his game
[18:44] <JontheEchidna> If rekonq had adblock and awesomebar... <3
[18:45] <markey> Chromium Daily build rock, but I guess you've already tried them
[18:45] <JontheEchidna> ya, I like Chromium very much
[18:45] <markey> it's the first new browser that got me excited in about 10 years
[18:45] <markey> a breeze to use
[18:45] <JontheEchidna> if the fonts weren't so... GTK.. I'd be totally, totally in love
[18:46] <markey> yes, but the font issue is being fixed (partly fixed already)
[18:46] <markey> and GTK.. yeah, agreed
[18:46] <markey> too bad
[18:46] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I noticed a bit of improvement in the fonts recently
[18:46] <JontheEchidna> still a bit spindly and not as nice as my Qt font setup
[18:46] <rgreening> Riddell: any reason we do not enable google gadget support in kde workspace?
[18:47] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: google-gadgets fails MIR for not having a stable API :(
[18:47] <ScottK> rgreening: It's in Universe
[18:47] <Riddell> as they say
[18:48] <rgreening> hmm... oh, so the deps for it are in universe, which is why... ah. ok
[18:48] <rgreening> I was reading this.... http://maketecheasier.com/integrate-google-gadgets-with-plasma-in-kubuntu/2009/05/18
[18:48] <rgreening> ad was curious.
[18:48] <rgreening> s/ad/and
[18:48] <ScottK> It should just take a rebuild
[18:49] <rgreening> cause it was available since kde 4.2
[18:49] <rgreening> oh well...
[18:49] <Riddell> I briefly looked into making it a separate package but didn't manage
[18:49] <Riddell> it's probably do-able though
[18:49]  * Riddell hopes claydoh turns up soon
[18:49] <rgreening> Riddell: can you add for Lucid as a todo. someone will tackle it then
[18:49] <ScottK> Probably less imporant than Samba GUI/integration.
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> one could always use google gadgets apart from plasma
[18:50] <rgreening> the integration blows outside plasma
[18:50] <rgreening> :)
[18:50] <rgreening> hah
[18:50] <rgreening> (or so I hear)
[18:50]  * JontheEchidna has never tried
[18:56] <rgreening> google calander plasma applet crashes plasma here...
[18:56] <rgreening> anyone else can confimr?
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> just add it?
[18:58] <rgreening> yeah. just adding crashes it
[18:59] <JontheEchidna> works for me (tm)
[18:59] <rgreening> strange
[19:00] <JontheEchidna> does plasma-desktop go down hard, or does the applet itself just throw a python error?
[19:02] <rgreening> hard and wet
[19:02]  * rgreening thinks that was prob too much
[19:02] <rgreening> haha
[19:02] <Sime> does pulseaudio work yet?
[19:03] <JontheEchidna> strange, scripted applets shouldn't make plasma crash unless it's a libplasma bug or some other nastiness occurs
[19:03] <davmor2> rgreening: do you need to integrate google gadgets don't you have enough of your own to play with :P
[19:03] <ScottK> Crash is always a bug.
[19:04] <rgreening> its probably something messed up on my system
[19:04] <rgreening> I'll have to try on another
[19:06] <Sime> I can imagine that there are times when a crashed applet can crash plasma too.
[19:33] <markey> http://www.madcowchronicles.net/index.php/things-that-could-be-better-kubuntu-9-10/
[19:33] <markey> (warning, the article is not very good)
[19:33] <markey> just stumbled upon it with google alerts
[19:46] <Tm_T> markey: bah, bit too much hate for my taste, there's some points perhaps but, meh
[19:51] <markey> yep, it's not a great article
[19:51] <rgreening> he's a kde3 lover, and not wanting to change...
[19:51] <rgreening> thats all
[19:58]  * Sput doesn't get why people like deprecated software
[20:32] <Sime> Riddell: desktop upgrade last night was a bit rough; laptop upgrade went a lot smoother although the openchrome driver isn't work correctly(!)
[20:51] <Quintasan> oh hi
[20:54] <Riddell> Sime: what's openchrome?
[20:55] <Sime> Riddell: VIA chip gfx driver.
[20:55] <Riddell> oh, an obscure one
[20:55] <Riddell> Sime: what happened with upgrade last night?
[20:55] <Sime> Riddell: looked like a few network problems are first; then it work; then kdesudo crashed and froze the upgrader.
[20:56] <Sime> Riddell: I killed the upgrader and told dpkg to configure all.
[20:56] <Sime> Riddell: and then manually fixed grub.
[21:00] <Riddell> claydoh!
[21:00] <Riddell> how's the announce text going?
[21:00] <ScottK> claydoh: Got a link?
[21:00]  * ScottK wants to work on it.
[21:01] <claydoh> ScottK: actually using a pencil and paper as I was away from the 'net, just getting the page set up atm
[21:02] <ScottK> claydoh: How primative.  OK.  Ping me when ready please.
[21:02]  * claydoh hates working at work instead of the important stuffs :)
[21:18] <JontheEchidna> wow, lotta people in #kubuntu
[21:19] <Tm_T> is not!
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> http://jshaver.com/bin/kubuntu-910-review/
[21:20] <a|wen> oh yeah, the channel is swarming
[21:21] <JontheEchidna> nice photo guide
[21:22] <Mamarok> JontheEchidna: funny enough, a lot of people idle there and only start talking when somebody answers
[21:22] <Mamarok> then suddenly you have 3 or 4 who want you to help at the same time
[21:22] <JontheEchidna> heh
[21:23] <Mamarok> claydoh: hi :)
[21:23] <Mamarok> I have seen that your dear friend is back in the users ML...
[21:23] <Mamarok> actually, our dear friend
[21:23] <claydoh> Mamarok: hi i am finally popular after 43 years :)
[21:24] <claydoh> Mamarok: yes, one post i approved
[21:25] <claydoh> harmless, attempting to be helpful, but incorrectly
[21:25] <a|wen> anyone know why we have been rebuilding i386 iso's like madmen today?
[21:25] <claydoh> Mamarok: no one seems to have responded or noticed him publicly
[21:26] <Tm_T> claydoh: who?
[21:26] <dtchen> a|wen: last-minute ubiquity update
[21:26] <dtchen> a|wen: updates* rather
[21:26] <claydoh> Tm_T: steven vollum
[21:27] <Tm_T> claydoh: ah, erm
[21:27] <dtchen> (thank goodness for zsync!)
[21:27] <a|wen> dtchen: anything in particular to look for in that regard when testing?
[21:27]  * a|wen still waits impatiently for i386 desktop
[21:29] <dtchen> a|wen: well, ubiquity crashing or failing to complete; let me pull the bugs
[21:29] <dtchen> a|wen: #462462, #462692
[21:32] <a|wen> dtchen: thx ... so nothing in particular to keep an eye on as long as it finishes
[21:33] <dtchen> a|wen: well, those are the ones I know of; there may be more critical cases
[21:35] <a|wen> of course ... i'll keep my eyes open in general when testing
[21:56] <claydoh> ScottK: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KarmicKoala/Final/Kubuntu
[21:57] <claydoh> ScottK: I seem to have , um, deleted an image KNE_u_i_300x175.jpeg
[22:02] <Riddell> the first screenshot should be updated, that one still has the opensocial plasmoid and compositing is off
[22:02] <Riddell> an image of something social from the start would be nice
[22:03] <Riddell> the packagekit image is old too, it doesn't list the packages now
[22:04] <yuriy> wow really drilling home the technical preview bit huh
[22:04] <claydoh> Riddell: yeah, working on some of that
[22:05] <yuriy> "Written by our very own elite Kubuntu developers, OpenOffice 3.1.1 introduces KDE integration" makse it sound like we wrote OO.o
[22:08] <smarter> and it should be KDE4 integration, since previous versions had KDE3 integration
[22:27] <slacker_nl> lol @ topic
[22:29] <shtylman> ++ @ topic :)
[22:31] <ScottK> Well shtylman brings the average up.  Compensates for my participation.
[22:33] <shtylman> haha... we still love you ScottK ;p
[22:45] <shtylman> why is it so hard to get a wired network connection logo right?
[22:45] <dtchen> we're all barbies, duh
[22:47] <yuriy> shtylman: indeed. this one is at least a little better than the disconnected one that was there before
[22:48] <shtylman> true
[22:48] <shtylman> this one looks like a popsicle
[22:49] <shtylman> when the computer rebooted from the update ... I was like... oh...what is this new logo
[22:49] <shtylman> sadly dissapointed when I discovered it was the network logo
[23:04] <ScottK> Well it's still better than using the same icon as disconnected.
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> yay, bug 458398 got fixed
[23:31] <Riddell> claydoh: are you making any more changes or should I move it to kubuntu.org?
[23:33] <ScottK> Riddell: Let me go throught it first, please.
[23:33] <a|wen> isn't the correct language-packs supposed to be installed, when you choose them in the installer?
[23:35] <ScottK> Riddell: The KNE image vanished and there's a "add image" comment further down.
[23:39] <Riddell> I wasn't planning on just a copy+paste, I'd actually review it too :)
[23:40] <Blizzz> has someone screenshots (in englisch) of user date input in the installer? Or know what the text on the radion buttons at the bottom is? I'm doing up German Wiki and it happens that the strings are too long
[23:42] <Riddell> Blizzz: it asks if you want to use a password to login, login automatically or use a password to decrypt an encrypted home directory
[23:42] <Riddell> those aren't the exact strings of course
[23:42] <Riddell> Blizzz: but that sounds like a bad bug, please do report it
[23:43] <Blizzz> Riddell: the meaning is enough, thanks. i will report it subsequently
[23:47] <a|wen> Riddell: should language packs be installed by ubiquity (when choosing languages not on the cd) or is update-notifier-kde responsible for that post-install?
[23:47] <ScottK> Riddell: I added some stuff on known issues.
[23:48] <ScottK> Riddell: I also added a spot to link to the official Ubuntu release notes for other issues.
[23:48]  * ScottK is done.
[23:48] <Blizzz> Riddell: choosing the last option makes the home dir to be encrypted automatically, right?
[23:50] <Riddell> a|wen: ubiquity should do that if there's an internet connection
[23:50] <a|wen> Blizzz: yes
[23:50] <Blizzz> a|wen: ty
[23:51] <a|wen> Riddell: thx ... hmm, strange; didn't happen for danish, so trying some other language now