[00:10] hi bryce__ [00:10] heya [00:11] who else on the desktop team is up atm? [00:13] ccheney maybe, although its evening for him now [00:13] kenvandine too I think [00:13] rickspencer3, whats up? [00:14] just wondering what folks are up to [00:14] iso testing? [00:14] being flamed by xorg upstream because canonical doesn't have a 10 person X team [00:14] where? [00:14] heh, on the xorg-devel mailing list [00:15] ah [00:15] they're discussing about new plans for scheduling releases [00:15] /ignore [00:15] bryce__, oh cool [00:15] I should subscribe [00:15] there's an argument between keith and daniels about whether to do 3-month or 6-month release cycles, and daniels asked distros for input [00:15] A lot of key areas in Ubuntu only have 1 canonical person working on them. [00:17] I posted an answer; the only reply to that has been some random upstream guy I've not heard of before saying that distros (by which I think he means Ubuntu) are getting a free lunch [00:24] bryce__: hi saw my name [00:24] rickspencer3: on the iso.qa site? [00:26] ccheney, you can join #ubuntu-release and see if anyone asks for help there [00:26] also, you can triage bugs that have been logged regarding the testing, see if there are any serious issues, etc... [00:26] and also iso.qa testing [00:26] rickspencer3: ok [00:27] bryce__, could you have a quick look at the stack trace in bug 429322 - I think an X IO error is causing the problems. If so, what is a good debugging technique to confirm that? [00:27] Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429322 [00:28] hi robert_ancell good morning [00:28] rickspencer3, hey [00:28] robert_ancell, welcome to your first ubuntu release! [00:28] * robert_ancell wishes gconf was using something other than orbit already to make debugging easier... [00:28] rickspencer3, yay! [00:29] robert_ancell, looking [00:29] robert_ancell, you may want to join #ubuntu-release in case anyone asks for help [00:29] rickspencer3, ok [00:33] robert_ancell, ok posted [00:34] xtrace rocks:) [00:35] bryce__, thanks [00:45] kenvandine, can you help robbiew get his desktopcouch working? he's got the upgrade need to delete that file thing [00:45] kenvandine, just pointing to the documentation would be fine [01:05] #ubuntu-release-party is going nuts already [01:07] Amaranth: just randomly start banning people [01:07] ajmitch: We got in trouble for that :/ [01:08] aw [01:09] rickspencer3, sure [01:09] thanx kenvandine [01:09] killall beam.smp desktopcouch-service [01:09] mv ~/.config/desktop-couch/desktop-couchdb.ini{,-old} [01:10] rm ~/cache/desktop-couch/desktop-couchdb.pid [01:10] then do something that should start it again [01:10] like start evolution or something [01:10] thanks to rickspencer3 the release date is now the 30th :P [01:11] dang it! [01:13] robbiew, let me know if you have questions [01:13] i need to step away for a few [01:13] but will be back [01:52] robert_ancell, bryce__ the U1 guys may need you to test a little something for them shortly [01:52] rickspencer3, ok [01:53] I told him to come ask you if needed anything [01:55] tedg, btw i did track down that critical i was looking for, thx for your tips [01:55] tedg, it just took a LOT of patience :/ [01:56] kenvandine: Heh, I'm glad that you found it. What was it? [01:57] indicator_manager was initialized before the event_manager was [01:57] Ah, startup sucks :) [01:57] only happened on startup :) [01:58] yeah... so painful to find :/ [01:58] BTW, why is Gwibber not in the alt+tab list? [01:58] ah... look at the preferences [01:59] humm [01:59] that isn't "hide taskbar entry" [01:59] dunno [01:59] it is in my alt-tab [02:00] * kenvandine thinks it is time for tedg to do some python debugging... after all my time C debugging this week :) [02:02] Hmm, playing with that fixed it... but not the first time I tried. [02:03] Anytime you write Python all you do is debug. That is, until you have 100% code coverage, and then you can't change anything. [02:04] :) [02:21] kenvandine: just got another empathy crash [03:36] c [03:59] hmm running wubi from this iso. at the top it says 'You are about to install Ubuntu-9.10ubuntu1" [03:59] (from #ubuntu-release-party) [04:46] mpt: could the libgnome change to not show icons be properly mentioned in the release notes? humanity is getting bugs about the panel menu... we've already got 3-4 bugs filed regarding that :( [04:49] all dupes? [04:53] lifeless: yeah , i'v duped them... but still thought it would be better to mention it in the release notes ;) === bjf is now known as bjf-afk === mac__v is now known as mac_v [05:29] robert_ancell: still awake and around? [05:29] jcastro, yup [05:30] robert_ancell: if you could help test the fix for bug 462828 that would really help out [05:30] Launchpad bug 462828 in ubuntuone-client "Files are marked for deletion on server when syncdaemon is killed during sync" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462828 [05:30] hey guys [05:30] jcastro, looking [05:30] hi ken [05:30] https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/nightlies [05:31] is the PPA with the updated packages [05:36] jcastro, ok, anything in particular to test? [05:36] robert_ancell: going through the steps in the first comment in the bug would help [05:38] hmm, I don't have a ubuntu one menu item... [05:38] robert_ancell: right now all the shipped clients are going to tell the user that there is a version mismatch [05:38] so the idea is when they get this working and tested it'll be an immediate SRU [05:39] jcastro, mine is syncing [05:39] downloading a bunch of stuff from you :) [05:39] ah, finally! [05:40] now it's uploading some test data [05:52] jcastro, I'm not getting any syncing occurring [05:52] :-/ [05:54] well the tooltip says "updating files..." but clicking on it shows a greyed menu with "your files are up to date" [05:54] one.ubuntu.com doesn't show any files [05:54] ok, let me see what's up [05:59] robert_ancell, tail -f ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log [06:00] 2009-10-29 16:59:27,622 - ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.Main - NOTE - ---- MARK (state: READING_WAITING_WITH_NETWORK_WITH_BOTHQ; queues: metadata: 12; content: 11; hash: 0, fsm-cache: hit=1287 miss=68) ---- [06:00] not doing anything at the moment [06:24] jcastro, I have to go - anything you want me to look at with U1? [06:24] robert_ancell: no I think ken and I can manage for a bit [06:24] thanks! [06:24] jcastro, np [07:03] Good morning [07:03] Good morning pitti [07:06] morning pitti [07:08] hey kenvandine; still awake? [07:08] hey al-maisan, how are you? [07:08] yup [07:09] helping the u1 guys [07:09] with this ugly bug, hear about it yet? [07:09] "this" bug.. [07:09] * pitti saw too many in the last days [07:12] u1 client bug [07:13] pitti: not too bad, thanks. How are things on your side? [07:13] al-maisan: bit tired, but pretty good; looking forward to getting karmic out of the door :) [07:14] pitti: :) [07:26] hey pitti, kenvandine, al-maisan :) [07:26] hello didrocks :) [07:30] hey didrocks [07:30] pitti, bug 462828 FYI [07:30] Launchpad bug 462828 in ubuntuone-client "Files are marked for deletion on server when syncdaemon is killed during sync" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462828 [07:30] that is what we are working on right now [07:30] so expect an SRU :) [07:31] pitti, also... not sure if this is SRU worthy but look at bug 451568 [07:31] Launchpad bug 451568 in empathy "Empathy don't close with click on notification area icon" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451568 [07:31] i proposed a patch that restores the toggling behavior with the empathy status icon, if you are not using the indicator [07:31] kenvandine: ^ I thought that was deliberate? [07:31] (not that many people like it, but still..) [07:31] it is... sort of [07:32] it is deliberate for the indicator [07:32] and we share the same code as the status icon [07:32] so this just makes it toggle if you set the preference to not use the indicator [07:32] simple change [07:32] ideally we want to separate the behavior, so the icon can behave differently than the indicator [07:33] but that was out of scope for karmic [07:33] would make seb128 happy though, to be able to use both at the same time :) [07:33] this should make people that aren't interested in the indicator happy [07:34] kenvandine: at this point of the release I'm fine with it if you think it's important and it has a trivial patch [07:34] it is really trivial [07:35] changes a 1 line patch into a 2 line patch :) [07:35] that branch also has the latest EmpathyChat leak fixes and i fixed a glib critical [07:35] debug logs are clean now :) [07:36] hello [07:39] hey didrocks, bonjour [07:39] * pitti waves to baptistemm [07:39] salut pitti [07:40] pitti, ok... debdiff for bug 462828 [07:40] Launchpad bug 462828 in ubuntuone-client "Files are marked for deletion on server when syncdaemon is killed during sync" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/462828 [07:40] back in 20 [07:40] I'm pleased to now working in a company where I can run linux and specially ubuntu as my OS [07:54] pitti, ok i tested the debdiff, lintian complains about an old line in the changelog but other looks good [07:54] pitti, can you handle getting it uploaded? [07:54] whenever that can be done [07:55] * kenvandine assigned the bug to pitti :) [07:55] i need to get some sleep, the kids are going to wake me up in 2 hours :( [07:56] kenvandine: yep, will do; sleep well! [07:56] thx [08:03] kenvandine: (answer later, low urgency): I think we should just include above empathy patch in the first upload; so I'll reject the current one from teh queue, you commit the new one to bzr, and I reupload? [08:13] I have a doctor appointment now, back in 2 hours [08:28] hello there [08:30] hey seb128 [08:30] hey mvo [08:30] how are you? [08:30] good! [08:31] but the ppa machines just told me my test package will only get build in 13h [08:31] that makes me a bit unhappy [08:31] mvo: that can be fixed, if required [08:32] Hobbsee: heh :) kdebindings is the one, that would be pretty sweet. [08:33] * Hobbsee looks [08:34] Hobbsee: its for a good course, verifiying the fix for bug #459471 [08:34] Launchpad bug 459471 in kdebindings "[Karmic] update-manager-kde: conffile prompt/error during upgrade cause crash" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459471 [08:34] mvo, looking to kde issues now, you traitor! [08:35] seb128: the kdm login is non-black ;) [08:35] mvo: that's fine. I'm just having extreme trouble navigating launchpad. i'll get there [08:35] mvo, oh, and trolling now, wait for uds! [08:35] oh, here we go [08:36] mvo, you can tweak gconf key to have better gdm too ;-) [08:36] seb128: :P [08:36] seb128: if only there was a application to set the background in gdm [08:36] start the day with a troll [checked] [08:36] * mvo gets himself into serious trouble [08:36] * seb128 goes to the next daily task, email reading [08:37] hehe, so easy :) [08:37] mvo, I don't know what you are talking about [08:37] * mvo was kicked from #ubuntu-desktop (seb128) [08:37] (good morning seb128 and mvo o/) [08:37] mvo, sudo -u gdm gnome-appearance-capplet? ;-) [08:37] mvo: there we go, they should build in a couple of minutes [08:37] lut didrocks [08:37] many thanks Hobbsee [08:37] mvo: you're welcome [08:37] * mvo sends some virtual flowers [08:37] :) [08:38] hey didrocks [08:38] (hate hate spammers) [08:39] 984 people connected on forum.ubuntu-fr.org \o/ [08:39] * didrocks thinks we will have a new record today ;) [08:44] didrocks, what is the current record? [08:44] approx 1250 :) [08:44] hi [08:45] all going well ;)? [08:45] hey asac [08:45] hi didrocks [08:45] hey asac [08:45] yes, things same to be on track [08:46] seems rather [08:46] moin moin seb128 [08:46] great [08:46] is lucid open yet or what? ;-) [08:46] boring day ;) ... lets check #ubuntu-release-party ;) [08:53] seb128: I know you are eager to upload 2.29.1 to lucid ;) [08:53] didrocks, no [08:54] I'm eager to start on reducing delta with debian ;-) [08:54] we will probably not start on 2.29 before uds [08:54] yeah, merging time :-) [08:58] Not to mention infrastructure changes for accessibility, i.e at-spi over dbus. I want to get that in and working at least as much as possible, as early as possible. [08:58] So I'll be interested in the 2.29 goings on. === al-maisan_ is now known as al-maisan [09:01] seb128: hi... how do you get the cloak for gimpnet? [gnome-hackers] [09:01] dunno what a cloak is [09:02] seb128, with a cloack nobody can see you ip [09:02] +your [09:02] baptistemm, still doesn't tell me what a cloack is [09:03] I just use xchat-gnome to connect to IRC [09:03] seb128: join #freenode and ask [09:03] it is a service provided by IRC servers [09:03] seb128: seems you dont use a cloak ;) > your are an ubuntu member , right so you can use the cloak > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/Cloaks [09:03] ikonia, I don't care about it but thanks [09:03] seb128: if you don't care - don't ask [09:03] ikonia, it's mac_v having questions [09:03] ok [09:04] ikonia, I'm busy enough with other things and I've no interest in that [09:04] ikonia: actually i asked , but freenode staff didnt know either :( [09:04] seb128: ok [09:04] mac_v: freenode staff do know what and how to get a cloak [09:04] mac_v, I don't know and I don't care ;-) [09:04] ;p [09:04] ikonia: dont how to get a cloak for gimpnet [09:04] that's nothing to do with this channel or this network - ask on gumpnet [09:04] gimpnet [09:05] ikonia: i cant find the support channel for gimpnet :(... [09:05] again - not this channel or this network's issue, check their website [09:06] ikonia: yup , i know that ;) ... i was checking if seb128 had any info since he frequents gnome-hackers :) [09:06] respect to anyone who's contributing to gnome [09:07] I do but I don't feel any need to use a cloack so I never asked [09:07] seb128: you know ? how do i get it? :) [09:07] mac_v, I do frequent #gnome-hackers I meant [09:08] mac_v, I guess you can try #sysadmin on their IRC [09:08] seb128: oh... ok..thanks anyway [09:08] morning everyone [09:09] lut huats [09:10] salut seb128 [09:12] mac_v, gimpnet don't have any service like cloak or Nickserv [09:12] but if you can convince the sysadmin to setup them, nice :) [09:14] baptistemm: oh... thats what i thought :) but recently i noticed that the few members where using a sort of cloak and thats got me thinking :D , must be something from the IP services or something else then :) [09:15] baptistemm: also i couldnt find a support channel for gimpnet :( the admins are hiding somewhere ;p [09:16] mac_v, they are on #sysadmin as just said before [09:17] hello everyone [09:17] hey chrisccoulson [09:17] seb128: darn it! i was trying sys-admin :/ [09:17] how are you on this karmic day? ;-) [09:17] seb128: thanks :) [09:18] hey seb128. i'm not too bad thanks. how are you? [09:18] I'm good thanks [09:34] Ng: I remember you had issues with compiz and the "run terminal" keybinding in the past. is this fully working now in karmic? [09:36] seb128: you have anything in queue for gtk+ SRU? [09:36] no [09:36] why? [09:37] i am going to prepare removing the debugging output for bug 401823 [09:37] Launchpad bug 401823 in gtk+2.0 "(firefox:24993): Gdk-WARNING **: XID collision, trouble ahead - overeager XID caching" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401823 [09:37] i got a user that said that .xsession-errors grow to 3GB in a few minutes [09:37] ;) [09:37] thats worse than what i thought [09:37] mvo: wow good memory. I haven't used it for some time, but a quick test suggests it doesn't work at all. I can't really spare any time today for anything deeper though [09:37] sorry [09:37] seb128: ok so if you have anything i shoudl review and take for this gtk upload let me know ;) [09:38] asac, I will find something, would be a shame to update gtk only to drop a warning [09:38] Ng: sure, many thanks. I prepare a fix - I can image your are super-busy :) [09:38] seb128: ok. ;) [09:38] i will wait a bit then [09:44] asac, ok, there is nothing else that I can see we really need now so go for your change [09:44] I'm curious to know how that user trigger so many warnings though [09:47] seb128: seems to just happen for some cases [09:47] especially when using flash in firefox [09:47] not easy to reproduce such a flush [09:48] of error msgs [09:50] quit [09:50] ... [09:50] tooo quiet [09:51] seb128, pitti, asac good morning [09:54] mac_v, I thought it already was in the release notes [09:55] (wiki.ubuntu.com is temporarily unavailable? ... first time I've ever seen that) [09:56] mpt: they'll be preping for release [10:09] hi rick [10:09] hmm rick [10:09] same here [10:10] asac, will you have a look to the gnome-bluetooth updates to see if that's worth sru-ing? [10:10] we tend to sru some GNOME bug fixes updates usually [10:10] ie just sponsored totem's one from robert_ancell [10:12] be back in a bit I need to go you to get some food for lunch [10:13] mac_v, [10:26] mpt: ah ha... ;) the gnome-menu is not mentioned ... so users think that the humanity theme is incomplete and lacks those icons hence the icon is not displayed :( [10:27] * mac_v hopes that might convince mpt to consider the icons back for all gnome-menu ;p [10:31] mac_v, why should we special-case gnome-menu? [10:32] mpt: the only reason is the all or none rule... either we remove all icon from that menu or keep icons for all... since if *some* are missing it looks like a bug , just like the context menus which only had icons for some items ... [10:32] mac_v, all or none is not a rule [10:33] not a rule per-se but just looks odd! [10:33] mac_v, and even if it was, none of the items in the System menu have icons [10:33] mpt: what about the places menu? [10:34] mpt: the system menu is part of the gnome-menu , so it seems broken [10:35] mpt: its like removing the icons from only the help menu while having icons in the file, edit, view [10:35] mac_v, what about the Places menu? [10:36] mac_v, I'm sorry, I don't know exactly what you mean by "the gnome-menu" [10:36] gnome-menu== main menu [10:36] mac_v, the one that's not used by default? [10:36] The one that starts with "Accessories" and ends with "System"? [10:37] mpt: i was meaning the one used by default , yeah the accessories, places, system menu [10:37] mac_v, Firefox similarly has icons in its History and Bookmarks menus but not in its other menus. Equal use of icons *across* menus is not a goal. [10:39] mpt: the firefox issue is due the recent change ;) ... the bug was filed that the bookmarks were objects [10:39] but the menu items with icons in Firefox are grouped together aren't they, and not just scattered about like the Places menu? [10:39] mpt: the places menu doesnt have icons for the "connect to server" , "search files" and "recent documents"... only the 3 dont have icons [10:39] the current places menu is absolutely hideous [10:42] mac_v, yes, I was giving Firefox as an example of doing it right. [10:44] mpt: IMO, its not right... just consider a user moving from one menu to the next , when the menu behaves as a single unit [user can click on file and move down the rest without having to click again , or click accessories and change view to system] , the menu must be treated as the same , now one drop down shows icon while the next doesnt , this is odd .. not a good design... :/ [10:44] seb128: yes. i have to rebase the patches we have to see what is left and if we need the SRU [10:44] asac, ok [10:44] seb128: i am on vac starting tomorrow ... so will try to do that tonight [10:44] asac, no hurry that can wait [10:44] but last i looked the fixes didnt seem too differetn/important [10:45] we are pretty good set i think [10:45] asac, how much vac do you take? [10:45] one week [10:45] basically 6 days ;) [10:45] ok, enjoy the well deserved break there! [10:45] work days [10:45] yeah ... i certainly will - need a battery recharge ;) [10:45] does anyone know what happens if you can g_source_remove when there are events pending for that particular source? do the events still get dispatched after removing the source, or are they removed from the main loop? [10:45] I still have some 11 days to take but I take friday and will do a real end of year break [10:46] chrisccoulson: they get cacnelled [10:46] well ... i am not sure what happens if you remove from a different thread [10:46] but if you remove them in the main thread, they wont get run anymore for sure [10:46] asac - thanks. do you know if that behaviour has changed since hardy? [10:46] mac_v, you're using "the menu" to mean "three separate menus". That's misleading. [10:46] chrisccoulson: shouldnt have changed ... unless it was/is buggy in some way [10:47] asac, thanks! my issue must be related to something else:( [10:47] mpt: that is because the whole row behaves as a single unit ... either the menu must open only when that menu item is clicked[clicking the file opens only file and clicking history should open only history] or all need to behave/display similarly , whether having icons or not. [10:47] mac_v, whether a menu item should have an icon depends on the item, not on what menu it's in. If a menu interleaves items that do and don't have icons, that's a sign that either (a) the wrong items have icons or (b) the menu should be rearranged. [10:48] chrisccoulson: whats the problem? [10:49] asac - i'm working on a pidgin SRU for hardy, to make it work with Yahoo again. i'm getting a crasher with the changes though, which seemed to be caused by an event being dispatched, after the source was removed from the main loop and some data free'd [10:49] i can't tell you much more yet though, as i'm at work ;) [10:49] and the patch is on my desktop at home :( [10:50] mac_v, Nautilus's "File" > "Open With" submenu uses icons for most of its items. Do you think that means all the items in the "File" menu should have icons too? [10:50] mpt: need to behave separately as in> the notification area applets do not show the drop down menu of the applet beside them , so they behave independently [10:51] chrisccoulson: usualyl those crashes happen when the callback target is finalized, but the source not properly removed [10:51] how sure are you that the source is properly removed? [10:51] asac - i'm not 100% sure yet. i ran out of time debugging it last night [10:51] mpt: what you mention here is sane > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2006-February/msg00000.html "I think icons should either be used for every item in a section (between the end of a menu and a separator, or between two menu separators), or for none of them, because anything else looks messy." [10:51] but i'll carry on with it again later [10:52] mac_v, yes, but there by "menu" I meant "menu", not "three separate menus". [10:53] mpt: they dont behave separate :( .. they act just like a submenu system of the menubar [10:53] ok [10:53] mac_v, then that brings us back to my question about Nautilus's File menu. [10:54] mpt: the file menu needs to arranged properly , where the icon options and the icon-less options [10:54] are separated by the separator [10:55] So maybe "Connect to Server..." and the separator above it should swap places. [10:55] Separator below it, rather. [10:56] Or maybe "Network" and the separator above it should swap places. [10:56] mpt: might be saner , by still i dont see why the recent documents is not an object ;) [10:56] mac_v, it would be if it was an actual folder you can open. (IIRC it was a real folder containing shortcuts in classic Mac OS, for example.) [11:00] mpt: IMO , the logic that only objects can use the icons is flawed :( ... icons need to be used for items which can be recognized ... for , "search for files" a magnifying glass is a good representative and can be a quick indication of what the item does [11:04] mpt: while we use icon for accessories and so on ...which are very ambiguous , what does a ruler and scissors , really convey ? :/ not sure why the search doesnt need an icon [11:06] programming = spade :/ , , does it mean anything if the user hasnt seen the icon along with the text ! [11:06] mac_v, "Search for Files..." is a borderline case. It is a standalone application, but people may not recognize (and probably should not need to know) that it is. [11:11] mpt: what does it being a standalone application really have to do with it having an icon? i meant it can be recognized easier , not that since it was a standalone app... but anyways... the objects only have icons is not a good solution :) ambiguous objects end up having icons rather than the meaningful icons... which will end up making the icon removal even bad :( the criterion needs to be rather are these useful indicators [i know its a [11:11] bit ambiguous] [11:12] but anyways... ;) [11:12] mac_v, the trouble there is that developers would have no idea when to stop, and we'd be right back where we were. [11:13] ie having a nice looking desktop? ;-) [11:13] haw haw [11:13] users seems really unhappy with the current system menu lack if icons [11:13] Users are always unhappy. [11:14] That's their job. [11:14] not really ;p [11:14] mvo: hi! packagekit-gnome is proposed for gnome, and we (release team) meet on sunday to discuss new modules, seb128 told me you were the one who'd know best the ubuntu/.deb situation. [11:14] not true [11:14] there is lot of cases where some users complain or people don't like change [11:14] but the system menu change is perceived as a bug by a lot of users [11:14] including technical people who know about the icon change [11:14] it seems like the happy people are always silent [11:14] +1 [11:15] andreasn, not really true either, on lot of bugs you have people from both side arguing [11:15] what icon change is that? [11:15] I've not seen any user argue in favor of this one [11:15] asac, don't display icons in menus by default [11:15] and on buttons [11:15] asac: the system menu lacking icons while the places and accessories have icon [11:16] oh ... yeah [11:16] firefox still has icons ;) [11:16]