[05:58] nemo: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/log/?p=177 , this is a good explanation of why the bigger sizes of the icons are needed ;) [05:59] nemo: we did the 64px icons because UNR used the 64px icons in the menus , and rather than scaling the 48px icons , we thought the icons if present in 64px would help make the appearance look better. [06:00] we will also be adding more 128px icons sizes , for icons which are used in bigger sizes [06:08] nemo: also the panel size depends on the font size and not the icon size , contrary to what you state above. Reduce the font size and the panel will also be smaller , I'm using a 19px panel [06:10] reduce the application size and the panel will also allowed to be smaller [06:10] application font size* [10:33] * ckontros waves [10:35] * SiDi doesn't. [10:36] :( [10:36] * SiDi bounces instead [10:48] * thorwil is reminded of the bouncing ball intro of the old ghostbusters game [10:48] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lh-xwAopy0 [11:51] Anyone know why GIMP.org is down? [12:20] ckontros: the site is sad because the name "gimp" is being discussed on the list once more! [12:20] What? The "name" is under discussion? [12:22] ckontros: yes. though it is _very_ unlikely anything will happen. someone suggested to replace the Gnu with Perfect ... ;) [12:22] * thorwil leaves for a bicycle ride [12:22] Ahh... [16:38] mac_v: I reduced font sizes [16:38] mac_v: and wasn't able to get the panel smaller [16:38] mac_v: the instant I shrank start-here.png the panel reduced in size [16:39] perhaps you're suggesting that what is forcing the 22px image instead of the 16px image is font dependant? [16:39] anyway. others have run into the same thing [16:39] the panel says it is 19px high, but is actually 24, until start-here is shrunk [16:39] I'd just as soon keep the font size I have though, with a smaller icon [16:40] * ckontros , with his fonts set to 8px can reduce the panel to 19pixels. [16:40] mac_v: if you want, I can show you a before/after by simply moving my ~/.icons dir w/ its labyrinth of symlinks [16:40] ckontros: did you measure the actual panel height? :) [16:40] screenshot plz! [16:40] anyway. 8px is way too small [16:41] ckontros: http://m8y.org/tmp/Screenshot.jpeg - my desktop w/ shrunken start-here [16:42] nemo: humanity has a 16px icon , not sure why there was a need to shrink the icon [16:43] mac_v: well. that's why I asked if it was doing some crude trigger based on font size to shrink the panel icon [16:43] btw , 8px , is not too small ;p .. [16:43] mac_v: my suspicion is "yes" [16:43] if you simply try to reduce the panel size to 20/19px it ignores you, and sticks with the larger icon [16:43] i'v been using 8px , since i felt 10px was too big :) [16:43] unlike most things that scale correctly [16:44] I run 1920x1200 w/8px. [16:44] however, if you lie to it and tell it the 16px is the 24px one [16:44] then it uses that, and the panel can now resize down correctly [16:44] nemo : you can force the icon using gtkrc [16:44] oh? that'd be nice too? [16:44] where. [16:44] nemo: You seem to just want more padding around the icon. So what you did is fine. [16:44] no [16:44] ckontros: I don't want more padding. I want the panel at 20px or 19px instead of 24px [16:45] ckontros: let me fire up the laptop and show you what happens if I remove the symlinks :) [16:45] panel gets taller due to start-here [16:45] ignoring the panel size [16:45] oooone sec [16:45] nemo: in the gtk theme , you can force the icons size [16:45] btw, there are many ubuntu forum threads on this [16:45] gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=16,16" [16:45] mac_v: I just want to force *that* icon size. if you could show that, it'd be great [16:45] cool [16:45] I'll give that a shot [16:45] lemme dig up the laptop [16:45] nemo: add that to the gtkdc of the theme [16:46] gtkrc* [16:47] AFAIK, you cant bet below 21 without going to a 8px font, editing the gtkrc or changing the icons. Which you have done. [16:47] well. of the 3, gtkrc is tidier. [16:47] yup , i dont think you can without having smaller font ;) [16:47] although the .icons has advantage of being user specific [16:47] But forcing that icon size with do it for everything in the panel or panel menu I believe. [16:47] oh. hum [16:48] ckontros: that would make icons smaller than 16 increase in size? [16:48] nemo: AFAIK , you need to force for every applet on the panel [16:48] the messaging menu uses a 22px icon [16:48] there is not 16px icon size for that [16:49] no* [16:49] mac_v: I /think/ it can be panel-global or app-specific. Can't remember. [16:53] http://m8y.org/tmp/temp.txt - my overkill symlinks [16:53] ok. now to try the gtkrc suggestion [16:53] will move .icons somewhere [16:56] mac_v: where would I put gtk-icon-sizes ? [16:56] oh wait [16:56] I already did that [16:56] it didn't work [16:57] nemo: is the theme in the .icons or in usr/share? [just taking a wild guess , since that option works when human theme uses it] [16:57] $ grep -Ev "^[[:space:]]*$|^[[:space:]]*#" .gtkrc-2.0 [16:57] gtk-icon-sizes="gtk-menu=16,16" [16:57] gtk-icon-sizes="gtk-button=16,16" [16:57] gtk-icon-sizes="gtk-small-toolbar=16,16" [16:57] gtk-icon-sizes="gtk-large-toolbar=16,16" [16:57] .themes* [16:57] gtk-icon-sizes="gtk-dnd=16,16" #don't know [16:57] gtk-icon-sizes="gtk-dialog=16,16" #don't know [16:57] gtk-icon-sizes="panel-menu=16,16:gtk-large-toolbar=20,20" [16:57] I've always had those in there [16:58] but I still need to do the ~/.icons thing [16:58] nemo: hmm , what .icons thing? [16:58] hm. also my font size *is* 8! [16:58] how odd [16:58] lol [16:58] mac_v: the symlink thing I referenced above [16:58] ok. so I'm clearly comfortable at 8. hmmm [16:58] so why does it work for you, but not for me [16:59] Maybe you have things in your gtkrc messing with it? [16:59] ckontros: that's my entire gtkrc above [16:59] um. I can send you the theme gtkrc as well I guess [16:59] No need. [16:59] (as opposed to user) [17:00] I see nothing in the Humanity gtkrc that seems likely - I did reduce the widths of things, I certainly didn't increase anything [17:00] anyway. I'm not the only one to resort to this :) [17:00] but it works ok. just a bit convoluted [17:01] I guess what would be a timesaver would be a "small display" theme :) [17:01] nemo: in the *human* gtkrc it is in line 8 [17:01] one that tightens everything up [17:02] gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=24,24:gtk-button=16,16" [17:02] that one? [17:02] yup , [17:02] but that was for 24,24 , so i gave you a 16,16 ;) [17:02] huh. that should have been overridden by my gtkrc personal [17:02] riiight [17:02] but my ~/.gtkrc-2.0 should specify the 16x16 override I pasted above [17:03] nemo: check if there is anything in the gconf[panel options] , which forces any size [17:03] oh. and I'm using DarkRoom right now which has no such line [17:05] there is a default size of 24 - however I don't think that would force it since it clearly honours my resizing ... once I smack down start-here [17:05] nemo: i thought you mentioned that you used a gtkrc ? oh ! so you didnt use it as a theme? [17:05] mac_v: I modified my ~/.gtkrc-2.0 - but I also modified the DarkRoom theme to tighten up scrollbars and such on that theme [17:05] no one else seems to like DarkRoom, so it only impacts me really :) [17:06] the grep above is from .gtkrc-2.0 - that's why I pasted the grep line :) [17:06] ah , ok [17:06] current top panel size in gconf is set to 19 [17:06] I'm pretty sure if I measure it it will actually be 20 [17:06] due to other things getting in the way [17:07] btw, another annoying aspect of the start-here thing [17:07] if a user decides to reduce their panel from 24 to 19, they then discover gnome will spawn apps underneath the menu bar [17:07] which it now thinks is only 19px high [17:08] nemo: i think the best for you is to use the autohide ;) [17:08] hm. it is 19px high [17:08] mac_v: naw. I like seeing my system stats [17:08] I interact w/ top bar too often to want autohide [17:08] actually, I've always found autohides annoying. dunno why [17:08] nemo: you can force the autohide size to 16px [17:09] maybe 'cause they pop out at me when I least expect it just 'cause I moved my mouse wrong [17:09] hmmm [17:09] so it would only peek out a bit? [17:09] nemo: so on autohide 16px willstill be displayed [17:09] I might still be able to read my stuff then [17:09] but then it would jitter. [17:10] well. I'll play w/ it. 19px works well enough. Maybe I'll whip up a script for the poor souls on the ubuntu forum in same situation [17:10] nemo: set the delay to very long [17:10] In gconf: /apps/panel/toplevels/top_panel_screen0/auto_hide_size [17:10] * nemo tries [17:10] nemo: set autohide delays it to 1 min or something , that way it wont move easily [17:10] 16, oddly, doesn't look like 16 [17:10] everything is chopped in half [17:10] hm [17:11] maybe 8 [17:11] interesting. 16 or 8 do exactly the same thing [17:11] ditto 24 [17:11] ok. autosize is not working as expected :) [17:12] 1-9 work [17:12] above 9 the values are ignored [17:13] meh. no biggie. 19px is ok as noted. [17:13] I was just more curious about the SVGs and brought this nuisance up in passing :) [17:14] nemo: that jimmac article mentions why svg is needed in all sizes [17:15] yeah. that makes sense [17:15] for small [17:15] it was the 48 and 64 I didn't understand [17:15] * nemo rereads what you said before [17:16] ah. hm [17:16] dunno. doesn't seem like it'd matter much. but hey, whatever :) [17:16] somehow seems you could get away w/ small and large or just small, medium and large, but you're the artists. [17:17] nemo: well when you are wondering about 19/16 px... why wouldnt 48/64 px matter ;p [17:17] the icons were added just to make the images more sharper [17:19] nemo: also humanity-icon-theme is not very big download , it is nearly as big a human icon theme but has more the 4-5 time the number of icons... so size isnt a problem for us either [17:22] * mac_v gets back to cursing OOo... #$%#$ [21:12] * thorwil has ubuntu-one fail at upload and uses dropbox instead