/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/10/31/#ubuntu-devel.txt

DiddlehaCosmic Coala... everything is AllRight but .VOBS. Tell me how i can enjoy my evening if you please ?00:01
MsMacoDiddleha: this still isnt a support channel...00:01
DiddlehaIve coded way many more lines then you ever have. Infest me not ;)00:02
wgrantStill not a support channel.00:03
DiddlehaMs: You have something twitchingly wrong about you ?00:03
Diddlehawgrant, Sorry... we make this work00:04
lifeless#ubuntu for support00:04
wgrantDiddleha: Be nice, thankyou.00:04
DiddlehaAccepted00:04
Diddleha.00:04
MsMacodid you just read Ms as multiple sclerosis?00:04
Diddlehawgrant: I suggest AbbA ?00:04
wgrantDiddleha: Pardon?00:05
DiddlehaMsMaco: You arent even close00:05
sistpotyDiddleha: please, that's all not helpful00:05
DiddlehaI like to donate billions each year from your tax paying dollars ;)00:08
sistpoty!ops00:08
ubottuHelp! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk00:08
sistpotyenough of that, Diddleha00:08
Diddlehasistpoty: Some appear not as they seem to be. Request acknowledged.00:09
Turlhello, anyone who knows how to read bootcharts?00:11
Diddlehasistpoty: I cannot work for you given the tools you give me. If this didnt sadden me i dont know what would. Pardon me if i need to takedown some evils. My quest has just begun to make codings and coders the main men and wimen of the irken worlds. We are sorry for the takedowns so far, we loved them.00:21
Diddlehasistpoty: Its how it always was.00:21
Diddleharyu2 <- begone00:26
ryu2ähm?00:27
DiddlehaÄhem00:27
Diddleharyu2: You can stay for a while00:27
Diddleha:)00:27
=== ryu2 is now known as ryu
bazhangDiddleha, please desist00:28
ryuit may be the time, but i cannot follow you00:28
DiddlehaBballhang seems frisky tonight :)00:29
DiddlehaCosmic Coala has issues, please save the Coalas00:30
nikoDiddleha: please can you keep this channel friendly ?00:30
Diddlehaniko: keep it GNU/Linux friewndly00:30
Diddlehaniko: keep it GNU/Linux friendly.00:31
naliothhi niko00:31
geofft!ops00:31
ubottuHelp! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk00:31
naliothgeofft: hi00:31
nikohi00:31
naliothwhy all the excitement?00:31
nikoDiddleha: what's wrong please ?00:31
Diddlehayou seem to be angry at something you know little about, such as GNU/Linux and or BSD ?00:32
Diddlehanalioth: *Yawn* as usual00:32
naliothgeofft: why are you calling the ops?00:32
nikonot really, but can you read the topic Diddleha ?00:32
geofftsee sistpoty's summon earlier, and logs00:33
Diddlehaniko: Are you saying im blind but all ive done for the past 10 years is code for OSS ?00:33
naliothgeofft: :(  i just got here  :(00:33
Diddlehaniko: Are you my grandma or something ?00:33
Diddleha:)00:34
naliothDiddleha: are you trolling?00:34
joaopintojust ignore him until a op joins, he is just trolling, don't feed him00:34
naliothjoaopinto: i am an op00:34
nikoDiddleha: please, follow channel topic or /part from here00:34
joaopintooh, so what are you waitinf for :P ?00:34
lifelessnalioth: hi, Diddleha is being disruptive, and we're failing at communicating this to them00:34
naliothDiddleha: is this true?00:35
lifelessnalioth: I can paste you a recent log if that would help, from before you joined00:35
Diddlehanalioth: Well, if you wanted to boot non-microsoft coders... i guess they can win this one ?00:35
naliothlifeless: irclogs has it  :)00:36
DiddlehaFor 25 years you have not yet learned. Im looking forward to coding for you for the next 55 years00:38
Diddleha:)00:38
DiddlehaSome of you seem weird though :)00:38
MsMacoO_o00:39
* nalioth prefers "eccentric" :P00:39
sistpotythanks again, nalioth... and sorry again for feeding the trolll in teh first place00:39
naliothsistpoty: they can sneak up on ya  :)00:41
sistpotyheh00:41
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
damo22i just created a working kernel module patch to support a new high end sound card... how do i package it into an ubuntu kernel module?01:51
damo22eg, i dont want to have to tell people to recompile an entire kernel just to use my module, i would like them to be able to compile it using module-assistant01:52
Turldamo22: they can just reinstall alsa-driver01:55
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
emgentccheney: ping :)04:19
emgenti prefer talk here, do not like facebook simil messaging04:19
ccheneyemgent: ah ok :)04:33
ccheneyhttp://www.openofficemouse.com/ <- thinks usability people would die after seeing this04:34
emgent;)04:35
emgentbig lol04:35
emgentccheney: how goes?04:36
ccheneypretty good, getting ready for my trip, printing out everything i need :)04:37
lifelessccheney: a spoof :)04:38
emgentheheh nice ;)04:38
ccheneylifeless: uh i'm pretty sure its real, there is a talk about it at OOoCon04:38
ccheneylifeless: it should be a spoof04:38
lifelessccheney: the links at the bottom go nowhere04:39
emgentccheney: i suggest to you to prepare your body to dring a really nice wine ;)04:39
lifelessccheney: except one to 'intellivision lives'04:39
ccheneylifeless: ah, heh :)04:39
ccheneyemgent: ok04:39
emgentah ccheney, i do not know if you know, but seems that Microsoft people come to ODF Plug Fest04:49
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
wolfethank you all who contributed :) Just upgraded, spectacular. First thing I tried was plugging up a monitor on my intel based gfx card on my notebook, worked without restarting the X server.07:16
dupondjehmz, can't even bugreport anymore on lauchpad08:43
dupondjetimeout ...08:43
dupondjehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/46622808:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 466228 in firefox-3.5 "Printing from flash doesn't find printers do to to strict apparmor rules" [Undecided,New]08:44
dupondjeasac: you might want to check it08:45
dupondjealready added the fix ;)08:45
=== quadrispro2 is now known as quadrispro
mdzdtchen, I've sent some email regarding the kernel version issue, which according to maco seems to be fixed by running update-grub11:10
mdzdtchen, regarding verbose logging for PA, we could set up an interactive apport hook which would restart pulseaudio with debugging enabled, prompt the user to reproduce their bug, then put everything back and attach the logs11:11
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
caioi'm having some troubles with karmic upgrade12:32
caiohttp://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1355/karmicgnomepanel.png12:33
caiocan't understand this "line" over the panel, and it appears on login screen too..12:34
caioand this network icon is so ugly, lol12:34
caiomost ugly think that I ever see12:35
caioand programs "closes unexpected" every time12:35
asacdupondje: please subscribe jdstrand to that bug13:05
Shockrateshello developers. sagemath 4.2 is available in the site, and we still have 3.1 in our repos.13:53
Shockratesdo something.....13:53
joaopintoShockrates, the best place to talk about universe repos packages is #ubuntu-motu :)13:55
Shockratesbut you are the maintainers13:55
Shockratesso this is the best place13:55
cjwatsonShockrates: #ubuntu-motu maintains packages in universe14:16
Shockratesok14:16
Shockratesfedora is way ahead of us14:17
cjwatsonactually, in general it's best to simply file a bug14:18
cjwatsonIRC is very dependent on somebody who's interested happening to be online at the right time14:18
cjwatsonand indeed there is bug 36908914:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 369089 in sagemath "sagemath debs are old (more than half year behind upstream)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36908914:18
ebroderAny ubuntu-installer experts around? I'm trying to do an unattended install of Hardy, but with no bootloader. grub-installer/skip works, but even if I set lilo-installer/skip, it still tries to install LILO14:25
ebroderI tried comparing the lilo-installer and grub-installer source, but I can't figure out where the skip options are supposed to trigger in the first place14:27
cjwatsonebroder: that feature wasn't in hardy14:31
cjwatsonit was added in intrepid14:31
ebrodercjwatson: Huh - really? It's in the Hardy docs14:31
cjwatsonyes, but the code was broken14:32
cjwatsonlilo-installer (1.27) unstable; urgency=low14:32
cjwatson  * Fix check for lilo-installer/skip. Closes: #471130.14:32
ebroderDamn14:32
ebroderIs it worth even trying to put an SRU together, or would people be too sketched out by it?14:33
cjwatsonI'd be OK with that14:33
ebroderOk, I'll see what I can come up with14:33
cjwatsonyou can work around it though14:34
cjwatsond-i preseed/early_command string echo "sed -i '1a. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule' /var/lib/dpkg/info/lilo-installer.isinstallable" >> /var/lib/dpkg/info/download-installer.postinst14:35
cjwatson... I think14:35
ebroderHaha, ok. I'll play around with that14:36
cjwatsonthe fix is revision 373.1.491 in lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/lilo-installer/ubuntu14:36
sebnerdtchen: ok, I newly installed karmic and have no sound (jaunty yes) anything I can do?14:37
SingAlongis there anyway to disable notifications or atleast change its settings?14:39
dupondjeasac: done14:50
dupondje:)14:50
caiocan anyone help? http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1355/karmicgnomepanel.png15:02
=== ryu2 is now known as ryu
dtchenmdz: what does "put everything back" mean? Are you proposing restarting PA?15:36
dtchensebner: err, I don't understand. Do you mean that you dist-upgraded from 9.04?15:37
sebnerdtchen: no, new install but I found the "workaround" in your blog. killall slmodemd15:39
dtchensebner: well, you could also use module-detect instead of module-udev-detect15:39
sebnerdtchen: how where?15:40
dtchenalso covered in the blog post15:40
dtcheni.e., edit ~/.pulse/default.pa or /etc/pulse/default.pa15:40
sebnerdtchen: well, documented to edit the files but not what ^^15:41
dtchensebner: sorry, but is "use module-detect instead of module-udev-detect" unclear? The file has a pretty distinct section for it.15:41
sebnerdtchen: just comment out the 3 lines of *udev?15:41
dtchensebner: sure, including the appropriate conditional15:42
dtchensebner: it's also possible to avoid editing /etc/pulse/default.pa and use pacmd/pactl15:42
sebnerdtchen: wondering about the .else since it didn't work evidently ^^15:42
mdzdtchen, yes, restarting PA15:43
mdzdtchen, is there a reason why that might not be a good idea?15:43
sebnerdtchen: btw, it shows me -30dB15:43
dtchenmdz: I presume we'd tell the user that everything connected to PA will die?15:44
dtchensebner: you could also do something at runtime like (hacky): pactl unload-module $(pactl list|grep -B1 'Name: module-udev-detect'|head -1|awk -F# '{print $2}') && pactl load-module module-detect15:45
mdzdtchen, yes, this would be an apport-driven debugging session15:45
sebnerdtchen: nah, I'll stick with edited pulse conf then ^^15:46
mdz(I'm assuming it's not possible to adjust the logging level at runtime; if it is, we don't need to restart)15:46
dtchenmdz: not that I've seen15:46
dtchenalso, I should push my one-liner against lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/karmic/apport/ubuntu/15:47
dtchen+    report['AlsaVersion'] = command_output(['cat','/proc/asound/version'])15:47
dtchene.g., this is necessary to direct people to install linux-backports-modules-alsa-karmic-generic15:48
dtchenmdz: WRT JackSense, I don't know if the best place is via an apport hook -- maybe checkbox instead?15:49
sebnerdtchen: anyways, thanks for your help! :)15:49
dtchensebner: np15:51
dtchensebner: be aware that using module-detect will lose hot(un)plugging of audio devices15:52
sebnerdtchen: grrr. define "audio devices" I'm just using a laptop15:52
dtchensebner: well, anything capable of audio playback or capture, e.g., usb headset, webcam, etc.15:53
sebnergrml15:53
dtcheni.e., if you use module-detect, plugging in (or removing) a usb headset won't register automatically15:53
sebnerdtchen: wondering about jaunty where everything worked15:53
dtchensebner: welcome to the world of upgrades involving udev changes, linux changes, and pulseaudio changes15:54
sebnerdtchen: heh, I suppose the motto is : "With lucid it'll get better" ?15:54
dtchenit's pretty simple though -- just unload and reload module-detect to pick it up15:54
dtchenheh, yeah, "better with lucid"15:55
sebner^^15:57
dtchenhmm17:08
dtchenit appears that some users are choosing to keep an existing grub conffile when prompted during upgrade17:09
dtchene.g., https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/465937/comments/317:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 465937 in alsa-driver "Sound card is not recoignized (it's listed by lspci and lshw -C multimedia but not in gnome). When booting a crack can be eard but nothing more. no sound at all." [Undecided,Invalid]17:10
amgarchIn9hi, is there a way to get a better diagnostic of system freezes? How do you usually trace bugs in the kernel?17:11
MsMacodtchen: i dont remember being asked that when i upgraded ada...17:14
dtchenI haven't ever been prompted either17:15
dtchenanyhow, trying to reproduce in vbox17:15
tormodamgarchIn9, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelTeamBugPolicies (maybe also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelOops)17:22
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
=== Gizmo_ is now known as Gizmo_the_Great
Gizmo_the_Great\join #ubuntu-devel18:03
Gizmo_the_Greatoops :-)18:04
hyperair / not \18:04
hyperairand you're already in to begin with..18:04
Gizmo_the_GreatHi. Doing some work using the memory analysis tool 'pcat' (part of The Coroners Toolkit). Using following syntax to analyse memory of the process : pcat 1234 | strings | less (where 1234 is the process ID of ecryptfs-kthrea). But it seems to prevent it. Am I doing something wrong, or is this part of eCryptFS, for security reasons?18:05
Gizmo_the_GreatI am asking at #ecryptsfs too, but that only has a few members18:06
geofftDid you say kthread?18:11
geofftI would be highly surprised if pcat works on kthreads. kthreads live entirely in kernelspace and IIRC have no userspace mm structure at all18:11
Gizmo_the_Greatgeofft: It returns : "pcat: ptrace PTRACE_ATTACH : Operation not permitted". IS that a permissions thing, or due to the fact that it's empty (as you say) do you think?18:14
Gizmo_the_GreatAlso, what is a userspace mm structure (forgive me, relatively new to this area)18:15
geofftoh, you're ptracing it. Yeah, that won't work either18:16
geofftFor normal processes, the kernel keeps track of a bunch of information userspace needs, including what memory userspace has mapped18:16
geofftFor kernel threads, because they only have kernel memory, the structure to track userspace memory doesn't exist18:17
geofftAlso, ptrace works for the most part by tracking system calls. Since kernel threads never work in userspace, system calls don't exist for them18:17
Gizmo_the_Greatgeofft: I have just read this : http://www.linfo.org/kernel_space.html and that all makes sense now, along with your explanation. Many thanks18:18
geofftBasically all the usual things you can do to processes other than look at them in ps don't apply to kernel threads.18:18
geofftSure, np18:18
geofftAh, yes, the definition of kernelspace is useful :)18:18
Gizmo_the_GreatSo are we saying, basically, that because ecryptfs is part of the Linux Kernel, it is effectively inaccessible by the normal user?18:19
jdongnot by the normal user (well for non-root users that's pretty true too), but not by the tools you are using which are designed primarily for userspace processes18:21
Gizmo_the_Greatcan I was what ptrace is? If you were writing a paper, and you started with "The Pcat program uses ptrace which is a...."18:25
Gizmo_the_Great?18:25
jdongmore or less a process debugger/manipulator/inspecter.18:26
geofftinterface for one process to inspect (and modify) other processes18:26
geofftHm, between those two answers I think we paraphrased the first paragraph of the manpage :)18:27
jdonglol indeed18:27
Gizmo_the_Greatmany thanks gents18:34
jdongno probs. Happy exploring :)18:36
Gizmo_the_Greathow can you capture ram on Linux using dd? dd if=/dev/mem of=test results in only a 1Mb file?18:53
Gizmo_the_Greatguess I am capturing the wrong thing?18:53
geofftI kind of doubt that will work... (also, last time I checked, either mem or kmem was broken. dunno if that's been fixed or WONTFIXed)18:58
geofftare you familiar with the distinction between physical and virtual memory?18:58
geofftand how different processes can see different views of memory?18:59
Gizmo_the_Greatgeofft: not massively, no. I am using virtual machines (VMWare) to conduct my tests, so I could examine the vmem file of a puased virtual machine. But I was hoping to do it 'neat' on a Linux machine.19:00
=== asac_ is now known as asac
geofftmmm. I'm trying to find a good reference but I'm having trouble finding one that's concise19:07
geofftI guess for /dev/mem it doesn't much apply...19:07
dtchenpitti: / mdz: sorry about the spurious merge proposal. Apparently the wrong radio button was selected. :(19:36
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
sebnerdtchen: the problem I'm seeing now that the gnome-volume-applet disappered, terminal says: ** (gnome-volume-control-applet:2511): WARNING **: Connection failed, reconnecting...20:37
sebnerdtchen: also suffering from bug #30175520:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 301755 in pulseaudio "Crackling noise after update to pulseaudio" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30175520:43
mdkecjwatson: I'm building the installation-guide for help.u.c from lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/installation-guide/ubuntu but it seems to be for jaunty? am i getting it from the wrong place/21:06
dupondjejdstrand: you checked the bug ? ;à21:21
sebnerdtchen: uhh. fixed the issue. completly removed the software modem stuff (Never used it anyways)22:10
hyperairdtchen: there?22:32
hyperairdtchen: is headphone jack detection in between suspend/resume supposed to work?22:32
hyperairi.e. stick in the headphones so speakers get muted, suspend, unplug headphones, and resume like that (speakers end up staying muted)22:32
kklimondawhat is the most probable cause of user running 2.6.28 kernel on 9.10 after upgrade?22:37
dupondjehow you mean ?22:38
=== ebb is now known as ebbeyes
kklimondadupondje, well, they are still running 9.04 kernel on 9.10 system (2.6.28 instead of 2.6.31)22:39
dupondjeall packages upgraded ?22:39
kklimondadupondje, they say that it's upgraded system - I assume that they are22:42
dupondjedpkg --list |grep linux-image ?22:42
kklimondadupondje, I'm just trying to find out :)22:42
kklimondadupondje, he has .31 installed but his menu.lst only have .28 listed..22:54
dupondjeupdate-grub22:54
dupondje:)22:54
kklimondagrub.conf is empty.. don't know if it's right after upgrade from 9.0422:54
dupondjegrub.conf ?!22:55
kklimonda.cfg22:55
dupondjegrub2 or grub1 using ?22:56
kklimondadupondje, I guess he's using grub1 - wasn't it supposed to stay after upgrade?22:56
dupondjeyea prolly22:57
dupondjebut then why is there grub.cfg :)22:57
dupondjedpkg --list |grep grub22:57
=== korn_ is now known as c_korn
=== quadrispro1 is now known as quadrispro
JanCkklimonda: it's a well-known bug by now, but AFAIK it's not known yet what causes it  ;)23:18
JanCkklimonda: at least some of them had grub2 installed before upgrade23:19
dupondjewell known bug ?23:20
JanCas in: a lot of people reported it  ツ23:20
iontsu?23:20
JanCdupondje: it breaks audio & other things because of udev changes & such, so peopel report bugs agains audio...23:21
JanCion: sorry for the Katakana "smiley" abuse  ;-)23:22
dupondjesome people :)23:22
dupondjebtw, you know how to debug nautilus ?23:22
dupondjetrying to debug SynCE gvfs plugin :P23:23
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
cjwatsonmdke: *blush* I never did get round to updating it non-trivially this cycle23:26
cjwatsonwow, that was kind of crap of me23:26
eboyjrI made a patch (kinda) for appearance-effects.c in gnome-control-center: http://pastie.org/67837423:33
eboyjrA simple change for a simple settings manager23:33
eboyjrI haven't tested it since I am not familiar enough with Debian's system (how to compile it and run it)23:36
JanCthere is some explanation on the wiki about how to do that23:37
eboyjrJanC: Okay /PackagingGuide/PatchSystems looks good23:38

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