[00:01] <Diddleha> Cosmic Coala... everything is AllRight but .VOBS. Tell me how i can enjoy my evening if you please ?
[00:01] <MsMaco> Diddleha: this still isnt a support channel...
[00:02] <Diddleha> Ive coded way many more lines then you ever have. Infest me not ;)
[00:03] <wgrant> Still not a support channel.
[00:03] <Diddleha> Ms: You have something twitchingly wrong about you ?
[00:04] <Diddleha> wgrant, Sorry... we make this work
[00:04] <lifeless> #ubuntu for support
[00:04] <wgrant> Diddleha: Be nice, thankyou.
[00:04] <Diddleha> Accepted
[00:04] <Diddleha> .
[00:04] <MsMaco> did you just read Ms as multiple sclerosis?
[00:04] <Diddleha> wgrant: I suggest AbbA ?
[00:05] <wgrant> Diddleha: Pardon?
[00:05] <Diddleha> MsMaco: You arent even close
[00:05] <sistpoty> Diddleha: please, that's all not helpful
[00:08] <Diddleha> I like to donate billions each year from your tax paying dollars ;)
[00:08] <sistpoty> !ops
[00:08] <sistpoty> enough of that, Diddleha
[00:09] <Diddleha> sistpoty: Some appear not as they seem to be. Request acknowledged.
[00:11] <Turl> hello, anyone who knows how to read bootcharts?
[00:21] <Diddleha> sistpoty: I cannot work for you given the tools you give me. If this didnt sadden me i dont know what would. Pardon me if i need to takedown some evils. My quest has just begun to make codings and coders the main men and wimen of the irken worlds. We are sorry for the takedowns so far, we loved them.
[00:21] <Diddleha> sistpoty: Its how it always was.
[00:26] <Diddleha> ryu2 <- begone
[00:27] <ryu2> ähm?
[00:27] <Diddleha> Ähem
[00:27] <Diddleha> ryu2: You can stay for a while
[00:27] <Diddleha> :)
[00:28] <bazhang> Diddleha, please desist
[00:28] <ryu> it may be the time, but i cannot follow you
[00:29] <Diddleha> Bballhang seems frisky tonight :)
[00:30] <Diddleha> Cosmic Coala has issues, please save the Coalas
[00:30] <niko> Diddleha: please can you keep this channel friendly ?
[00:30] <Diddleha> niko: keep it GNU/Linux friewndly
[00:31] <Diddleha> niko: keep it GNU/Linux friendly.
[00:31] <nalioth> hi niko
[00:31] <geofft> !ops
[00:31] <nalioth> geofft: hi
[00:31] <niko> hi
[00:31] <nalioth> why all the excitement?
[00:31] <niko> Diddleha: what's wrong please ?
[00:32] <Diddleha> you seem to be angry at something you know little about, such as GNU/Linux and or BSD ?
[00:32] <Diddleha> nalioth: *Yawn* as usual
[00:32] <nalioth> geofft: why are you calling the ops?
[00:32] <niko> not really, but can you read the topic Diddleha ?
[00:33] <geofft> see sistpoty's summon earlier, and logs
[00:33] <Diddleha> niko: Are you saying im blind but all ive done for the past 10 years is code for OSS ?
[00:33] <nalioth> geofft: :(  i just got here  :(
[00:33] <Diddleha> niko: Are you my grandma or something ?
[00:34] <Diddleha> :)
[00:34] <nalioth> Diddleha: are you trolling?
[00:34] <joaopinto> just ignore him until a op joins, he is just trolling, don't feed him
[00:34] <nalioth> joaopinto: i am an op
[00:34] <niko> Diddleha: please, follow channel topic or /part from here
[00:34] <joaopinto> oh, so what are you waitinf for :P ?
[00:34] <lifeless> nalioth: hi, Diddleha is being disruptive, and we're failing at communicating this to them
[00:35] <nalioth> Diddleha: is this true?
[00:35] <lifeless> nalioth: I can paste you a recent log if that would help, from before you joined
[00:35] <Diddleha> nalioth: Well, if you wanted to boot non-microsoft coders... i guess they can win this one ?
[00:36] <nalioth> lifeless: irclogs has it  :)
[00:38] <Diddleha> For 25 years you have not yet learned. Im looking forward to coding for you for the next 55 years
[00:38] <Diddleha> :)
[00:38] <Diddleha> Some of you seem weird though :)
[00:39] <MsMaco> O_o
[00:39]  * nalioth prefers "eccentric"  :P
[00:39] <sistpoty> thanks again, nalioth... and sorry again for feeding the trolll in teh first place
[00:41] <nalioth> sistpoty: they can sneak up on ya  :)
[00:41] <sistpoty> heh
[01:51] <damo22> i just created a working kernel module patch to support a new high end sound card... how do i package it into an ubuntu kernel module?
[01:52] <damo22> eg, i dont want to have to tell people to recompile an entire kernel just to use my module, i would like them to be able to compile it using module-assistant
[01:55] <Turl> damo22: they can just reinstall alsa-driver
[04:19] <emgent> ccheney: ping :)
[04:19] <emgent> i prefer talk here, do not like facebook simil messaging
[04:33] <ccheney> emgent: ah ok :)
[04:34] <ccheney> http://www.openofficemouse.com/ <- thinks usability people would die after seeing this
[04:35] <emgent> ;)
[04:35] <emgent> big lol
[04:36] <emgent> ccheney: how goes?
[04:37] <ccheney> pretty good, getting ready for my trip, printing out everything i need :)
[04:38] <lifeless> ccheney: a spoof :)
[04:38] <emgent> heheh nice ;)
[04:38] <ccheney> lifeless: uh i'm pretty sure its real, there is a talk about it at OOoCon
[04:38] <ccheney> lifeless: it should be a spoof
[04:39] <lifeless> ccheney: the links at the bottom go nowhere
[04:39] <emgent> ccheney: i suggest to you to prepare your body to dring a really nice wine ;)
[04:39] <lifeless> ccheney: except one to 'intellivision lives'
[04:39] <ccheney> lifeless: ah, heh :)
[04:39] <ccheney> emgent: ok
[04:49] <emgent> ah ccheney, i do not know if you know, but seems that Microsoft people come to ODF Plug Fest
[07:16] <wolfe> thank you all who contributed :) Just upgraded, spectacular. First thing I tried was plugging up a monitor on my intel based gfx card on my notebook, worked without restarting the X server.
[08:43] <dupondje> hmz, can't even bugreport anymore on lauchpad
[08:43] <dupondje> timeout ...
[08:44] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/466228
[08:45] <dupondje> asac: you might want to check it
[08:45] <dupondje> already added the fix ;)
[11:10] <mdz> dtchen, I've sent some email regarding the kernel version issue, which according to maco seems to be fixed by running update-grub
[11:11] <mdz> dtchen, regarding verbose logging for PA, we could set up an interactive apport hook which would restart pulseaudio with debugging enabled, prompt the user to reproduce their bug, then put everything back and attach the logs
[12:32] <caio> i'm having some troubles with karmic upgrade
[12:33] <caio> http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1355/karmicgnomepanel.png
[12:34] <caio> can't understand this "line" over the panel, and it appears on login screen too..
[12:34] <caio> and this network icon is so ugly, lol
[12:35] <caio> most ugly think that I ever see
[12:35] <caio> and programs "closes unexpected" every time
[13:05] <asac> dupondje: please subscribe jdstrand to that bug
[13:53] <Shockrates> hello developers. sagemath 4.2 is available in the site, and we still have 3.1 in our repos.
[13:53] <Shockrates> do something.....
[13:55] <joaopinto> Shockrates, the best place to talk about universe repos packages is #ubuntu-motu :)
[13:55] <Shockrates> but you are the maintainers
[13:55] <Shockrates> so this is the best place
[14:16] <cjwatson> Shockrates: #ubuntu-motu maintains packages in universe
[14:16] <Shockrates> ok
[14:17] <Shockrates> fedora is way ahead of us
[14:18] <cjwatson> actually, in general it's best to simply file a bug
[14:18] <cjwatson> IRC is very dependent on somebody who's interested happening to be online at the right time
[14:18] <cjwatson> and indeed there is bug 369089
[14:25] <ebroder> Any ubuntu-installer experts around? I'm trying to do an unattended install of Hardy, but with no bootloader. grub-installer/skip works, but even if I set lilo-installer/skip, it still tries to install LILO
[14:27] <ebroder> I tried comparing the lilo-installer and grub-installer source, but I can't figure out where the skip options are supposed to trigger in the first place
[14:31] <cjwatson> ebroder: that feature wasn't in hardy
[14:31] <cjwatson> it was added in intrepid
[14:31] <ebroder> cjwatson: Huh - really? It's in the Hardy docs
[14:32] <cjwatson> yes, but the code was broken
[14:32] <cjwatson> lilo-installer (1.27) unstable; urgency=low
[14:32] <cjwatson>   * Fix check for lilo-installer/skip. Closes: #471130.
[14:32] <ebroder> Damn
[14:33] <ebroder> Is it worth even trying to put an SRU together, or would people be too sketched out by it?
[14:33] <cjwatson> I'd be OK with that
[14:33] <ebroder> Ok, I'll see what I can come up with
[14:34] <cjwatson> you can work around it though
[14:35] <cjwatson> d-i preseed/early_command string echo "sed -i '1a. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule' /var/lib/dpkg/info/lilo-installer.isinstallable" >> /var/lib/dpkg/info/download-installer.postinst
[14:35] <cjwatson> ... I think
[14:36] <ebroder> Haha, ok. I'll play around with that
[14:36] <cjwatson> the fix is revision 373.1.491 in lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/lilo-installer/ubuntu
[14:37] <sebner> dtchen: ok, I newly installed karmic and have no sound (jaunty yes) anything I can do?
[14:39] <SingAlong> is there anyway to disable notifications or atleast change its settings?
[14:50] <dupondje> asac: done
[14:50] <dupondje> :)
[15:02] <caio> can anyone help? http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1355/karmicgnomepanel.png
[15:36] <dtchen> mdz: what does "put everything back" mean? Are you proposing restarting PA?
[15:37] <dtchen> sebner: err, I don't understand. Do you mean that you dist-upgraded from 9.04?
[15:39] <sebner> dtchen: no, new install but I found the "workaround" in your blog. killall slmodemd
[15:39] <dtchen> sebner: well, you could also use module-detect instead of module-udev-detect
[15:40] <sebner> dtchen: how where?
[15:40] <dtchen> also covered in the blog post
[15:40] <dtchen> i.e., edit ~/.pulse/default.pa or /etc/pulse/default.pa
[15:41] <sebner> dtchen: well, documented to edit the files but not what ^^
[15:41] <dtchen> sebner: sorry, but is "use module-detect instead of module-udev-detect" unclear? The file has a pretty distinct section for it.
[15:41] <sebner> dtchen: just comment out the 3 lines of *udev?
[15:42] <dtchen> sebner: sure, including the appropriate conditional
[15:42] <dtchen> sebner: it's also possible to avoid editing /etc/pulse/default.pa and use pacmd/pactl
[15:42] <sebner> dtchen: wondering about the .else since it didn't work evidently ^^
[15:43] <mdz> dtchen, yes, restarting PA
[15:43] <mdz> dtchen, is there a reason why that might not be a good idea?
[15:43] <sebner> dtchen: btw, it shows me -30dB
[15:44] <dtchen> mdz: I presume we'd tell the user that everything connected to PA will die?
[15:45] <dtchen> sebner: you could also do something at runtime like (hacky): pactl unload-module $(pactl list|grep -B1 'Name: module-udev-detect'|head -1|awk -F# '{print $2}') && pactl load-module module-detect
[15:45] <mdz> dtchen, yes, this would be an apport-driven debugging session
[15:46] <sebner> dtchen: nah, I'll stick with edited pulse conf then ^^
[15:46] <mdz> (I'm assuming it's not possible to adjust the logging level at runtime; if it is, we don't need to restart)
[15:46] <dtchen> mdz: not that I've seen
[15:47] <dtchen> also, I should push my one-liner against lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/karmic/apport/ubuntu/
[15:47] <dtchen> +    report['AlsaVersion'] = command_output(['cat','/proc/asound/version'])
[15:48] <dtchen> e.g., this is necessary to direct people to install linux-backports-modules-alsa-karmic-generic
[15:49] <dtchen> mdz: WRT JackSense, I don't know if the best place is via an apport hook -- maybe checkbox instead?
[15:49] <sebner> dtchen: anyways, thanks for your help! :)
[15:51] <dtchen> sebner: np
[15:52] <dtchen> sebner: be aware that using module-detect will lose hot(un)plugging of audio devices
[15:52] <sebner> dtchen: grrr. define "audio devices" I'm just using a laptop
[15:53] <dtchen> sebner: well, anything capable of audio playback or capture, e.g., usb headset, webcam, etc.
[15:53] <sebner> grml
[15:53] <dtchen> i.e., if you use module-detect, plugging in (or removing) a usb headset won't register automatically
[15:53] <sebner> dtchen: wondering about jaunty where everything worked
[15:54] <dtchen> sebner: welcome to the world of upgrades involving udev changes, linux changes, and pulseaudio changes
[15:54] <sebner> dtchen: heh, I suppose the motto is : "With lucid it'll get better" ?
[15:54] <dtchen> it's pretty simple though -- just unload and reload module-detect to pick it up
[15:55] <dtchen> heh, yeah, "better with lucid"
[15:57] <sebner> ^^
[17:08] <dtchen> hmm
[17:09] <dtchen> it appears that some users are choosing to keep an existing grub conffile when prompted during upgrade
[17:10] <dtchen> e.g., https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/465937/comments/3
[17:11] <amgarchIn9> hi, is there a way to get a better diagnostic of system freezes? How do you usually trace bugs in the kernel?
[17:14] <MsMaco> dtchen: i dont remember being asked that when i upgraded ada...
[17:15] <dtchen> I haven't ever been prompted either
[17:15] <dtchen> anyhow, trying to reproduce in vbox
[17:22] <tormod> amgarchIn9, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelTeamBugPolicies (maybe also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelOops)
[18:03] <Gizmo_the_Great> \join #ubuntu-devel
[18:04] <Gizmo_the_Great> oops :-)
[18:04] <hyperair>  / not \
[18:04] <hyperair> and you're already in to begin with..
[18:05] <Gizmo_the_Great> Hi. Doing some work using the memory analysis tool 'pcat' (part of The Coroners Toolkit). Using following syntax to analyse memory of the process : pcat 1234 | strings | less (where 1234 is the process ID of ecryptfs-kthrea). But it seems to prevent it. Am I doing something wrong, or is this part of eCryptFS, for security reasons?
[18:06] <Gizmo_the_Great> I am asking at #ecryptsfs too, but that only has a few members
[18:11] <geofft> Did you say kthread?
[18:11] <geofft> I would be highly surprised if pcat works on kthreads. kthreads live entirely in kernelspace and IIRC have no userspace mm structure at all
[18:14] <Gizmo_the_Great> geofft: It returns : "pcat: ptrace PTRACE_ATTACH : Operation not permitted". IS that a permissions thing, or due to the fact that it's empty (as you say) do you think?
[18:15] <Gizmo_the_Great> Also, what is a userspace mm structure (forgive me, relatively new to this area)
[18:16] <geofft> oh, you're ptracing it. Yeah, that won't work either
[18:16] <geofft> For normal processes, the kernel keeps track of a bunch of information userspace needs, including what memory userspace has mapped
[18:17] <geofft> For kernel threads, because they only have kernel memory, the structure to track userspace memory doesn't exist
[18:17] <geofft> Also, ptrace works for the most part by tracking system calls. Since kernel threads never work in userspace, system calls don't exist for them
[18:18] <Gizmo_the_Great> geofft: I have just read this : http://www.linfo.org/kernel_space.html and that all makes sense now, along with your explanation. Many thanks
[18:18] <geofft> Basically all the usual things you can do to processes other than look at them in ps don't apply to kernel threads.
[18:18] <geofft> Sure, np
[18:18] <geofft> Ah, yes, the definition of kernelspace is useful :)
[18:19] <Gizmo_the_Great> So are we saying, basically, that because ecryptfs is part of the Linux Kernel, it is effectively inaccessible by the normal user?
[18:21] <jdong> not by the normal user (well for non-root users that's pretty true too), but not by the tools you are using which are designed primarily for userspace processes
[18:25] <Gizmo_the_Great> can I was what ptrace is? If you were writing a paper, and you started with "The Pcat program uses ptrace which is a...."
[18:25] <Gizmo_the_Great> ?
[18:26] <jdong> more or less a process debugger/manipulator/inspecter.
[18:26] <geofft> interface for one process to inspect (and modify) other processes
[18:27] <geofft> Hm, between those two answers I think we paraphrased the first paragraph of the manpage :)
[18:27] <jdong> lol indeed
[18:34] <Gizmo_the_Great> many thanks gents
[18:36] <jdong> no probs. Happy exploring :)
[18:53] <Gizmo_the_Great> how can you capture ram on Linux using dd? dd if=/dev/mem of=test results in only a 1Mb file?
[18:53] <Gizmo_the_Great> guess I am capturing the wrong thing?
[18:58] <geofft> I kind of doubt that will work... (also, last time I checked, either mem or kmem was broken. dunno if that's been fixed or WONTFIXed)
[18:58] <geofft> are you familiar with the distinction between physical and virtual memory?
[18:59] <geofft> and how different processes can see different views of memory?
[19:00] <Gizmo_the_Great> geofft: not massively, no. I am using virtual machines (VMWare) to conduct my tests, so I could examine the vmem file of a puased virtual machine. But I was hoping to do it 'neat' on a Linux machine.
[19:07] <geofft> mmm. I'm trying to find a good reference but I'm having trouble finding one that's concise
[19:07] <geofft> I guess for /dev/mem it doesn't much apply...
[19:36] <dtchen> pitti: / mdz: sorry about the spurious merge proposal. Apparently the wrong radio button was selected. :(
[20:37] <sebner> dtchen: the problem I'm seeing now that the gnome-volume-applet disappered, terminal says: ** (gnome-volume-control-applet:2511): WARNING **: Connection failed, reconnecting...
[20:43] <sebner> dtchen: also suffering from bug #301755
[21:06] <mdke> cjwatson: I'm building the installation-guide for help.u.c from lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/installation-guide/ubuntu but it seems to be for jaunty? am i getting it from the wrong place/
[21:21] <dupondje> jdstrand: you checked the bug ? ;à
[22:10] <sebner> dtchen: uhh. fixed the issue. completly removed the software modem stuff (Never used it anyways)
[22:32] <hyperair> dtchen: there?
[22:32] <hyperair> dtchen: is headphone jack detection in between suspend/resume supposed to work?
[22:32] <hyperair> i.e. stick in the headphones so speakers get muted, suspend, unplug headphones, and resume like that (speakers end up staying muted)
[22:37] <kklimonda> what is the most probable cause of user running 2.6.28 kernel on 9.10 after upgrade?
[22:38] <dupondje> how you mean ?
[22:39] <kklimonda> dupondje, well, they are still running 9.04 kernel on 9.10 system (2.6.28 instead of 2.6.31)
[22:39] <dupondje> all packages upgraded ?
[22:42] <kklimonda> dupondje, they say that it's upgraded system - I assume that they are
[22:42] <dupondje> dpkg --list |grep linux-image ?
[22:42] <kklimonda> dupondje, I'm just trying to find out :)
[22:54] <kklimonda> dupondje, he has .31 installed but his menu.lst only have .28 listed..
[22:54] <dupondje> update-grub
[22:54] <dupondje> :)
[22:54] <kklimonda> grub.conf is empty.. don't know if it's right after upgrade from 9.04
[22:55] <dupondje> grub.conf ?!
[22:55] <kklimonda> .cfg
[22:56] <dupondje> grub2 or grub1 using ?
[22:56] <kklimonda> dupondje, I guess he's using grub1 - wasn't it supposed to stay after upgrade?
[22:57] <dupondje> yea prolly
[22:57] <dupondje> but then why is there grub.cfg :)
[22:57] <dupondje> dpkg --list |grep grub
[23:18] <JanC> kklimonda: it's a well-known bug by now, but AFAIK it's not known yet what causes it  ;)
[23:19] <JanC> kklimonda: at least some of them had grub2 installed before upgrade
[23:20] <dupondje> well known bug ?
[23:20] <JanC> as in: a lot of people reported it  ツ
[23:20] <ion> tsu?
[23:21] <JanC> dupondje: it breaks audio & other things because of udev changes & such, so peopel report bugs agains audio...
[23:22] <JanC> ion: sorry for the Katakana "smiley" abuse  ;-)
[23:22] <dupondje> some people :)
[23:22] <dupondje> btw, you know how to debug nautilus ?
[23:23] <dupondje> trying to debug SynCE gvfs plugin :P
[23:26] <cjwatson> mdke: *blush* I never did get round to updating it non-trivially this cycle
[23:26] <cjwatson> wow, that was kind of crap of me
[23:33] <eboyjr> I made a patch (kinda) for appearance-effects.c in gnome-control-center: http://pastie.org/678374
[23:33] <eboyjr> A simple change for a simple settings manager
[23:36] <eboyjr> I haven't tested it since I am not familiar enough with Debian's system (how to compile it and run it)
[23:37] <JanC> there is some explanation on the wiki about how to do that
[23:38] <eboyjr> JanC: Okay /PackagingGuide/PatchSystems looks good