[00:06] jdstrand: you mean for karmic? ... sure. but not for other relesaes ;)? [01:00] asac, did you read about murrine? [01:02] not sure when ... [01:02] i posted more stuff to the bugs [01:02] so most till there i read [01:02] also provided same thing for clearlooks which seems to be the origin from that code [01:03] check what i wrote ... once its both done, maybe you can get that in as an SRU ;)? [01:03] patch should be small enough to get that in [01:03] for gtk2-engines ... and gtk2-engines-murrine packages (both need the patch from the bug) [01:03] except that we still have no clue why it happens in the 1st place [01:03] well. the engine is really buggy [01:03] its not really a workaround ... though evolution has a bug too [01:04] both sides are buggy ;) [01:04] evolution just uncovered that the engines are buggy [01:04] now evolution still has no progressbar right? [01:04] asac: newest cyanogenmod rom for android has usb tehter [01:04] so that means it doesnt get hidden, so i dont see why we dont want that patch landed [01:04] *tether [01:04] I'll test it with brand new lucid code :) [01:04] haha [01:05] lucid code? [01:05] ;) [01:05] lets hope NM works [01:05] (12:51:15 AM) MsMaco: so when can we upgrade to lucid? [01:05] (12:52:50 AM) dtchen: it already exists (http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/) [01:05] rather use dailies [01:05] yes. but i dont think there is much there yet ;) [01:05] asac: I think I'm on dailies [01:05] my OS looks more like rolling release [01:05] there is no new modem/nm code in lucid for sure [01:05] then release based [01:05] yeah ... thats good ;) [01:07] we still have to rename the ppas [01:07] fta: seeing whats wrong with evolution code ... sounds not that difficult now that we know what triggers this - at least in theory ;) [01:07] fta: i have plenty of time next week as i am on vacation ;) [01:07] but here [01:08] asac: (01:07:36 AM) Sememmon: funny.. the icon that indicates you're connected to a wired network in karmic network manager.. is a disconnected cable. [01:08] lol [01:08] didn't take long :) [01:08] others said it looks like a seat belt ;) [01:09] but its definitly better than the pacman ghost we had for a month or so in karmic ;) [01:10] fta: so the pinning approaches i outlined worked somewhat [01:10] of course not exactly the same way i had that on the wiki [01:11] which is why it dropped from radar as i found myself hacking in apt code :) [01:11] well not from radar, just from my current action :) [01:12] BUGabundo: i guess your huawei thing didnt get better with latest kernels? [01:12] no idea [01:12] I'm still wifi tether :) [01:13] glad I got an android :) [01:13] asac: ppl still complaining [01:13] so I guess its not fixed [01:13] did they try the kernels? [01:13] I tested kernels from PPA [01:13] without success [01:13] before release [01:13] i hope you did something wrong ;) [01:14] or is it a different issue with that? [01:14] e.g. not the infinit mode switching :) [01:15] asac: I did mean for karmic [01:16] go ahead then ... sure [01:16] thanks [01:16] they are superseded anyway [01:16] jdstrand: remember that firefox-3.0 binaries are now in ffox 3.5 sources ;) [01:16] too [01:17] asac: right, I know, but our publication scripts aren't that smart [01:17] if I don't delete them, they'll just download them and then I need to manually remove them from the email [01:19] ok ;) [01:19] i trust you doing the right thing with 3.5 ;) [01:20] 3.0 is none existing as you said, so the sources with all its binaries can go [01:20] * jdstrand nods [01:20] I'm not touching 3.5 [01:20] right [01:20] good night! [01:21] tb3 red, and i still need to add tb3.1 [04:52] * JanC gets really annoyed @ firefox updates overwriting my search engine keywords... :-( [04:56] well, s/overwriting/deleting/ [05:03] mmm, that shouldn't happen [05:03] though I dunno how apt-get updates work [05:46] try a default install of karmic (don't upgrade, maybe keep it off-line!), set a keyword for one of the search engines, and then upgrade to the newest version [09:30] hi can anyone in here help me with shredder to thunderbird upgrade? [09:30] when I upgraded from karmic my whole mail system "vanished". Before I used shredder now I have thunderbird (I thought they were the same?!). A lot of settings are lost, I had to rename .thunderbird-3.0 to .mozilla-thunderbird to get any information at all (I also changed .thunderbird-3.0 to .mozilla-thunderbird in pres.js) and certificates and passwords dont properly work anymore. What do I do? [09:31] also I did a big mistake I think: in my local folder I set to delete messages older than 30 days. I thought it meant the messages on the pop servers but instead I think it deleted all the messages I stored locally on my pc. Is there a way to get them back? [09:32] another possibility is that the upgrade from shredder to thunderbird caused this somehow. [09:32] I was using shredder from ppa and now updated to karmic which removed shredder and installed thunderbird. I have the issues since then. [09:33] Eg. a lot of preference settings are gone and I keep getting a message about a certificate. If I click to store it premanentely it just keeps popping up. Any idea why? [09:34] is anyone around? [09:52] well, I am [09:52] except, I'm not a packager [09:53] I'm just here for bitching about the broken Chromium Dailies ;) [12:52] g0th: lots of devs are outa teh so called office for the weekend [12:53] you might find the occasional one stray in here [13:05] JanC: yes. you are not the first to report this ... guess i should look into that [13:07] though ... my keywords still work :/ [13:08] JanC: like i have a keyword "bmo" ... which goes to bugzilla [13:08] i didnt loose that [13:08] oh ... guess bugzilla is not a system installed searchplugin [13:10] i will check that for some vacation food ;) [13:10] but not right now ;) [13:10] later today or monday [13:10] maybe stay around and bug me daioly aobut it ;) [13:10] g0th: going back from tbird 3 to tbird 2 is not supported [13:10] so if you used shredder for serious work, you are indeed a bit trapped [13:11] but shredder is almost final, so whats the issue? [13:11] why do you want to go back? [13:11] https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa [13:11] we still have dailies there [13:11] and next week we will get a milestone ppa too ;) [13:11] at least thats what i set myself as a vaction goal :-P [13:12] asac, there will be a mozilla seed for mozilla-related uploads? [13:12] i will try ;) [13:12] to get that [13:12] great, it would be cool [13:13] our team policy is strict enough imo... and i guess it would help also getting more folks contributing on mozilla ;) [13:13] I guess that mozilla related stuff will get into the desktop seed [13:14] i hope not [13:14] if you don't propose a mozilla team seed alone [13:14] most folks in that team have no idea about all the implications ;) [13:14] yeah :) [13:14] yeah. thanks for reminding ... i will ensure that that does not happen accidentially [13:14] np, let me know when you have some news [13:15] ack [13:15] toolchain is in [13:15] or at least mostly [13:15] I've upgraded my lucid pbuilder already [13:22] very good ;) [13:22] i will stay on karmic until the first SRU round is done [13:22] then move ahead ;) [13:24] I gonna format my system to setup a fresh install soon [13:24] too long since I don't clean it [13:26] hmm ... this system was installed with etchy ;) [13:27] doesnt really feel clean ... but its like a busy main street ... you cannot just redo without causing major issues [13:30] well, my system is pretty slow now [13:30] has some issues to sound etc [13:30] cause broken upgrades, tests etc [13:32] hmm [13:32] what has happened to my connman upload to debian ;)? [13:33] dak clean up [13:33] dak clean up? [13:33] is it dead atm? [13:33] ftp-master meeting is running in germany [13:33] yes [13:33] cronjobs are down [13:33] ah ok ;) [13:33] thx for the info [13:33] np [13:33] guess the uploads wont get lost:) [13:34] an huge dinstall usually runs in the evening [13:34] so your upload should be into the upload's queue [13:34] * asac checks incoming [13:34] asac, ftp://ftp.upload.debian.org/pub/UploadQueue/ [13:34] ftp://ftp-master.debian.org/pub/UploadQueue/ [13:34] hehe [13:35] yeah found it [13:35] ;) [13:35] asac, connman is there [13:35] :) [13:35] just noticed that i didnt know that url anymore /me tried http.../pub/incoming/ [13:35] incoming are accepted uploads e.g already processed by dinstall [13:36] right ;) [13:36] poor folks .... see a bunch of dcut files there too [13:36] when will ftp-master folks finally allow override? [13:36] that would be like a boost in this millenium [13:37] dunno, but I know they did some cool changes to dak [13:37] like buildd auto-sign [13:37] i think the reason was that debians mindset is paranoid and think someone can sabotage them by overwrriting while you upload ;) [13:38] ubuntu uses dak too [13:38] like ... i upload ffox ... then someone just uploads some garbage over my file ;) [13:38] yeah [13:38] av`: we dont use dak anymore [13:38] last use of dak was security ... which (luckily) is now dead [13:38] everything is soyuz [13:38] scottk mentioned dak the other day [13:38] e.g soyouz is based on dak [13:39] well ... ;) ... you can stretch that definition quite far for sure [13:39] yeah [13:39] for me there are two enemies in debian: [13:39] a) no overwrite [13:39] b) no source only uploads [13:39] both combined can be the hell [13:39] and [13:39] c) security upload dak is a complete mess [13:40] debian will be setup source only uploads [13:40] in the future [13:40] I guess [13:40] when i still did all the security uploads for mozilla (e.g. when backports were needed) [13:40] we sometimes fought together with security team, ftp-masters and others to get an upload in for a week or more [13:41] I hope things are better now [13:41] like: partial upload broken because of reconnect -> dcut works, -> dak thinks the tarball is already there, but cannot find it and always gets a checksum mismatch [13:41] i hope too [13:41] i said that i will never do any security upload for other mozilla team members until a) and b) are fixed ;) [13:42] so when thats done, i will probably be more active again ;) [13:42] atm there is still security upstream support ... lets see what happens with debian after december [13:42] well, binary uploads are somewhat nice [13:42] *we* will have a tough time too [13:42] e.g so ppl test before pushing [13:42] i want to upgrade hardy to xulrunner-1.9.1 -> 1.9.2 :( [13:43] av`: to some degree the testing is true ... but ... uploading 40M vs. 150M is a completely different story ;) [13:43] with all the -dbg packages etc. [13:43] especially if you have to push that 3 times ;) [13:43] yeah, that's not nice with huge packages [13:43] tbird, ffox, xulrunner (and even iceape) [13:44] but works fine with small / medium ones [13:44] so when i didn those four i could bet on having at least a connection drop for one of the packages [13:44] with all the pain and wrestling ;) [13:44] maintaining those packages is a pain [13:44] e.g building / testing / uploading [13:44] you get crazy [13:44] its ok ... but you just need good infrastructure [13:45] ubuntu is quite close when all the ppa builders are there [13:45] have daily builds => push without testing ;) [13:45] test binaries built ... for final QA sign off [13:45] etc. [13:45] anyway I hate uploading binaries [13:45] but yes. thats insane ;) ... i lost a few disks because of all the spinning [13:46] but that was really just in debian time ... i only build a upstream tree here now [13:46] so i can do incremental builds after pulling latest [13:46] for development [13:46] and just sometimes a full respin [13:46] and packages are unlikely to fail because we just adjust patches i did in upstream tree ... and also have dailies etc. [13:47] the nice thing of debian are the buildd machines available for developers [13:47] wel ... from time to time i do a full package build ... e.g. when refactoring or trying something new in packages [13:47] true [13:47] e.g you have tons of several different archs to test stuff [13:47] but its much more needed there [13:47] because of the excotic archs [13:48] otoh, in debian most folks dont use that service [13:48] afaik [13:48] yeah, the service is there but not a lot of ppl use it [13:48] and buildiung is often not the problem [13:48] and working on a sparc sigbus in firefox isnt good ;) [13:49] which firefox release will we have in lucid? [13:49] at least 3.6 [13:49] maybe even 3.7 [13:49] if mozilla really releases in a 4 month beat now ... ;) [13:50] which is why we have to redo everything :/ [13:50] basically 3.6 -> 3.7 etc. is now considered a minor update [13:50] (at least thats the discussion) [13:50] so we dont get any security support at all ;) [13:50] so we have to ride those new minor/major updates [13:50] which improvements will it have? [13:51] speed [13:51] and what about chromium? will it be pushed into universe? [13:51] i think thats the main focus still ... [13:51] thats the plan [13:51] chromium is a huge license mess [13:51] also want to put that in debian [13:51] but i dont see that happening soon [13:51] would be nice, but debian has strict licensing stuff [13:51] ubutu we might be able to get good-faith permission to upload a license buggy chrome ... [13:51] in debian thats possible too .. but requires far more discussion [13:52] which license is it under? [13:52] causing huge flames etc ;) [13:52] av`: chromium is a mix of a whole new universe :) [13:52] i think chromium itself code is apache [13:52] or bsd ... which is what google usually uses [13:52] but webkit, and the other thousand dependencies are just pulled in from outside etc. [13:53] with variouslicense ... some without explicit license [13:53] and they are definitly not all mutually compatible [13:53] all i saw are at least compatible in one direction [13:53] but figuring out if they are used in the other direction is tough [13:54] but maybe thats not an issue [13:54] so the complete work is most likely just GPL [13:54] I guess that having it into universe will make tons of ppl happy [13:54] but even there i am not sure if all are GPL2+ or GPL2 or GPL3+ or GPL3 [13:54] which is scary as you could not distribute GPL3 with GPL2 ;) [13:54] sure [13:55] and we have to find a way ;) [13:55] I study law, and I think I gonna choose an exam about pc licenses [13:55] law? [13:55] interesting [13:55] yep [13:55] licensing is intersting ;) [13:56] but i think its quite well understood [13:56] so nothing to do real research on ... guess some lawyers will disagree ;) [13:57] I am studying latin law atm [13:57] plus politic economy [13:58] exams to be given at genuary / february [13:58] two books around ~1000 pages [13:59] I'll get crazy before becoming a lawier [13:59] i never would have succeeded to get a good grade in law ... my brain is not ment to learn stuff like that ;) [14:00] i am quite good to get excited about things i have no interest in, but that i have to learn ... but law is just too much [14:00] yes, reading a law's book needs a fresh brain [14:00] e.g you can't study at night [14:01] for me the law is simple: just behave in the same way you want everyone else to behave ;) ... like kant [14:01] everything else should get punished ... ;) [14:01] lol [14:01] would be nice to have that rule only [14:01] like folks trying to get the maximum out of law loopholes -> go to prison [14:01] so I wouldnt need to study so much [14:02] yay for formally undecidable laws [14:02] i think the next important step that law has to get is to find way to properly include common ethics in law [14:02] start by defining 'loophole' :p [14:02] cwillu: right. thats why i say, that its one of the things philosophie and law have to figure [14:03] first ... only then life on this planet will be good and just and nice for everyone ;) [14:03] law should be more strict in italy [14:03] more strict is quite a wide definition [14:03] here everyone do whatever they want [14:03] personally i think we are too strict in some areas [14:03] and not strict enough in others [14:03] we should learn from german laws [14:04] or better we should learn to apply laws correctly like germans do [14:04] like we do? [14:04] i am not sure we do [14:04] maybe applying law is done properly [14:04] but the law themselves are a mess [14:05] some ppl here kill 2-3 other ppl and gets only 10 years of prison [14:05] and then they go out after 3 years for another law introduced in the meantime [14:05] i think law science has not even reached the state that they understand how to refactor laws ...with not many regressions ... instead of just adding more laws on top [14:06] well, the italian constitution would need a cleanup [14:06] we have rules from 1800 [14:06] and they still apply! [14:06] yeah. well. so for murder here you get "life-sentence", which unless the judge says you are obviously dangerous forever, means 15 year [14:06] murder for me is forever prison [14:07] otherwise you get in a high security mental institution after the 15 years of prision for rest of life [14:07] but then we also had those folks go shopping with some guards in city ... and escaped ;) [14:09] we have mafia here, which kills everything in the south of italy [14:09] but yeah. i think its pretty messed up too ... like child rapers sometimes get 2 years or so ;) [14:09] they even went to germany to do a murder [14:09] don't know if you remember it [14:09] don't remember the city name where it happeend [14:09] * happened [14:09] but also our old chancellor burried money for his party he good from bribers (weapon deals) ... and then refused to say who that was, and where he got that money from :) [14:10] and he never went to prison [14:10] s/good/got/ [14:10] yeah, politician are the worst ppl [14:10] they have contacts with the mafia around here [14:10] and they cooperate with them [14:11] and a bunch of other folks still in government also forgot that someone gave them 100k EUR and just had that in their rooms ;) [14:11] "oh, i don know where that came from ... must have forgotten it. sorry" [14:11] oh I thought that just in italy we had such things [14:11] no ... unfortunately we had that too (and still there are some folks around ... and noone got in prison) [14:12] but i hope italy is worse [14:12] :-P [14:12] yes [14:12] it is [14:12] i know [14:12] did you read 'gomorra' book? [14:13] from an italian writer? [14:13] nope [14:13] it is now translated in ~100 languages already [14:13] so should be available in germany too [14:13] hmm. are you running the -security ppa or karmic? [14:13] is firefox also slow? [14:13] like often stops reacting etc.? [14:13] I am running karmic yes [14:13] i think thats the sqlite we had in security [14:13] i mean ... in the ppa [14:14] nope, don't have security ppa enabled [14:14] good ... but you have latest ffox? [14:14] yep [14:14] like rolled yesterday [14:14] ok... and no speed issues? [14:14] hmm [14:14] ii libsqlite3-0 3.6.16-1ubuntu1.9.10.1 SQLite 3 shared library [14:15] let me downgrade for a while ... [14:15] I have 3.5.3+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu6~asac3 [14:15] after the latest dist-upgrade I did [14:16] hmm. where does that come from? [14:16] your ppa I guess [14:16] that's what I have in sources.list [14:16] i dont load ~asac3 things to official channels i hope [14:16] av`: asac? [14:16] ok [14:16] av`: security should have 3.5.4 now [14:16] i mean ... real archvie security/-updates [14:16] let me update [14:17] ii firefox-3.5 3.5.4+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.9.10.1 safe and easy web browser from Mozilla [14:17] mirrors are so damn slow now [14:17] security.ubuntu.com is not a mirror [14:18] maybe you dont have that enabled= [14:18] ? [14:18] (at least not mirrored with delay) [14:18] Trovato http://security.ubuntu.com karmic-security/restricted Packages [14:18] should be this one [14:18] yeah [14:18] no [14:18] thats just restricted [14:18] I have others too [14:18] eb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ karmic-security restricted main multiverse universe [14:18] eb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ karmic-security restricted main multiverse universe [14:19] yes, he wants me to update ffox [14:19] k [14:19] give that a try ;) [14:19] and see if it gets slower [14:19] * asac checks what he uploaded to own ppa [14:20] damn my karmic installation hanged out [14:20] cause my bad dvd drive [14:20] omg [14:20] ah ok. those are test builds for the last upload i did before RC freeze [14:22] av`: so what are your ideas/plans for lucid ;)? [14:22] I gonna start my work for the desktop team plus I'll keep doing my work on mozilla extensions etc [14:22] k [14:23] will you help keeping extensions in sync in debian/ubuntu? [14:23] sure [14:23] plus I have GNOME stuff in debian too [14:23] yeah noticed [14:23] are you gnome team member there? or just individual packages? [14:24] gnome team member [14:24] e.g commit rights to all GNOME packages [14:24] I'm into gnome-pkg-tools as well [14:24] plus I have NM [14:24] so enough [14:25] nm? [14:25] yes [14:25]