[01:02] <hdon> where can i find the revision control source code repository for the gnome system monitor panel applet?
[01:06] <cjwatson> hdon: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-system-monitor/ubuntu
[01:07] <hdon> cjwatson: thanks :D
[01:07] <hdon> ugh... another revision control system to learn... i might have to forget one of them to make room for another
[01:08] <wgrant> Do we want to preserve lzma tarball support for 3.0 sources, or drop it like Debian did last week?
[01:08] <wgrant> hdon: The only one I know really well now is bzr. I use its plugins to interact with other VCSes.
[01:09] <hdon> wgrant: hm, that sounds like an interesting capability..
[01:09] <hdon> so i guess it providers a user interface abstraction for accessing multiple types of revision control systems then?
[01:09] <wgrant> hdon: eg. bzr-svn and bzr-git allow me to seamlessly interact with svn and git repositories through bzr.
[01:09] <wgrant> Right.
[01:09] <hdon> that's a cool idea. thanks for telling me :)
[01:10] <wgrant> It is pretty nice.
[01:10] <cjwatson> wgrant: lzma is mostly important for the .deb, I think
[01:11] <lifeless> zx-utils conflicts with lzma
[01:12] <lifeless> FWIW
[01:12] <wgrant> zx-utils exists?
[01:13] <lifeless> apt-get install it :)
[01:14] <wgrant> I tried to.
[01:14] <wgrant> But it doesn't exist.
[01:14] <wgrant> LP has never heard of it.
[01:16] <lifeless> xz-utils
[01:16] <wgrant> Ah.
[01:16] <wgrant> But it Provides it as well.
[01:16] <wgrant> cjwatson: So shall I follow Debian and not support lzma sources?
[01:22] <cjwatson> wgrant: there doesn't seem a pressing need to diverge on this
[01:22] <cjwatson> so I would say yes
[01:24] <wgrant> cjwatson: OK. Thanks.
[02:30] <JanC> wgrant: are you working on the xz-utils package?
[02:33] <wgrant> JanC: No. I'm working on Debian source format 3.0 in LP.
[02:35] <JanC> ah, okay, just asking because I just filed a bug against it (it overwrites a file from lzip)
[02:35] <JanC> well, tries to  ;)
[02:45] <Whoopie> pitti, apw: Hi, I added a debdiff to bug 427217 to fix the FTBFS for openwsman. Could you please have a look? Thanks a lot.
[02:59] <ScottK> wgrant: Porting to xz-utils should be on the TODO for Lucid.
[03:00] <wgrant> ScottK: How do you mean?
[03:01] <ScottK> wgrant: It's my understanding that xz-utils is superceding the old lzma lib.  We have it in Main for Karmic because KDE already switched.
[03:56] <iWolf> Attention:
[03:56] <iWolf> We are getting many reports about sound
[03:56] <iWolf> Alot of them reporting for 9.10
[03:57] <lifeless> check they booted with the right kernel
[03:57] <lifeless> if they didn't (booted with intrepid kernel) run sudo update-grub and reboot
[03:58] <iWolf> So current kernel is:
[03:58] <iWolf> Alright
[03:58] <iWolf> Ill check
[03:59] <iWolf> •soren•
[04:00] <iWolf> So
[04:00] <iWolf> sorry
[04:00] <iWolf> sudo update-grub
[04:00] <iWolf> Or is it apt-get
[04:06] <RAOF> iWolf: What's your actual question?  In order to determine the running kernel you can use "uname -a".  The Karmic kernel will be 2.6.31-14-something, the Intrepid kernel will be 2.6.28-something-something.
[04:07] <iWolf> Current kernel for 9.10
[04:07] <iWolf> Im getting many bug reports about no sound in 9.10
[04:07] <iWolf> I closed one about Intel HDA sound
[04:07] <iWolf> And directed them here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HdaIntelSoundHowto
[04:12] <lifeless> iWolf: so there is a known problem, if you boot the intrepid kernel, sound won't work.
[04:13] <iWolf> Correct
[04:13] <lifeless> iWolf: and for some reason update-manager isn't running update-grub properly
[04:13] <iWolf> So Mark All Of 'Em With A Problem With The Distro
[04:13] <lifeless> no
[04:13] <iWolf> So,
[04:13] <iWolf> Close em
[04:14] <lifeless> so verify what is going on
[04:14] <lifeless> with each one
[04:14] <iWolf> Ok
[04:14] <iWolf> Most of the ones i peak at are all 9.10
[04:14] <lifeless> if their sound works after they run update-grub, close it.
[04:14] <lifeless> if their sounds doesn't work then something else is wrong
[04:14] <iWolf> sudo update-grub
[04:14] <lifeless> sudo update-grub and then reboot
[04:15] <wgrant> Is update-grub the right command for GRUB2?
[04:16] <lifeless> wgrant: I don't know; I had this problem, AFAICT I'm still running grub1
[04:16] <iWolf> We got a complaint
[04:18] <iWolf> Take a look at it here:
[04:18] <iWolf> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f7b71cb9b
[04:19] <iWolf> Schedule a meeting for the sound problems?
[04:20] <lifeless> iWolf: no
[04:20] <lifeless> there simply needs to be a bug that the upgrade isn't leaving the menu.lst correctly - devs can work on that, perhaps make it critical.
[04:21] <iWolf> Ok
[04:21] <iWolf> Thank you
[04:22] <lifeless> other than that, help users that have sound problems, there will probably be many which are this case
[04:23] <RAOF> wgrant: Yes.  update-grub2 is a symlink to update-grub.  (Or possibly the other way around, I forget)
[04:23] <wgrant> RAOF: Oh. Convenient.
[04:24] <RAOF> Oh, sorry.  That's a lie.  update-grub2 is a script containing nothing but "exec update-grub $@" ;)
[04:24] <m4t> any reports on the new desktop background changer 'fade' causing 100% cpu etc.?
[04:26] <m4t> maybe selecting 'no desktop effects' should disable that
[04:28] <MsMaco> lifeless: i saw one person in #ubuntu today who hit the menu.lst-not-updated issue with sound, but after "sudo update-grub" ended up with a stanza where the vmlinuz line was karmic and the initrd was still jaunty
[04:29] <iWolf> Oh no
[04:29] <iWolf> I just told 5 people
[04:29] <iWolf> sudo update-grub
[04:30] <dtchen> iWolf: I blogged and posted to the forums about this issue
[04:30] <iWolf> And posted it on forums
[05:18] <dtchen> hyperair: yes, resume is supposed to have functioning jack sense
[05:18] <hyperair> ._. did you /hilight me or something?
[05:18] <hyperair> so anyway, what info should i submit to a bug report?
[05:18] <dtchen> hyperair: if it doesn't, you [should] know the drill: ubuntu-bug alsa-base . And, you should see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ALSA/JackSense
[05:18] <lifeless> MsMaco: then they'd need to also run update-initramfs
[05:18] <syn-ack> alright... are we able to sync up to lucid yet by changing the sources.list?
[05:20] <dtchen> sure.
[05:21] <syn-ack> werd
[05:21] <hyperair> dtchen: ah okay
[05:21] <syn-ack> wanted to make sure I was gonna get anything that's dropped
[05:21]  * hyperair grumbles. looks like i have to install apport
[05:22] <dtchen> hyperair: ok, if you don't want, just use http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh
[05:22] <dtchen> don't want to install apport, that is
[05:23] <hyperair> ah okay
[05:25] <JanC> why refuse to install apport?
[05:27] <MsMaco> JanC: because sometimes it gets stupid
[05:27] <JanC> ?
[05:28] <wgrant> Does it?
[05:29] <MsMaco> throwing up crash reports for code you're debugging (cant tell it to stop it til after you authorize it, then supposedly there's a "shut up" button), spawning...well, one time it had 189 processes for only 6 crash reports in /var/crash/ using 4GiB of RAM for me... the Cancel button doesn't always work...
[05:29] <JanC> after the release all (or most?) of the automatic bug reporting stuff is disabled by default anyway...
[05:29] <JanC> and you can tell it to ignore applications etc.
[05:30] <JanC> set enabled=0 in /etc/default/apport and it should be harmless
[05:31] <JanC> (which is the default after release)
[05:33] <JanC> and /etc/apport/blacklist.d/ has the blacklisted executables
[05:36] <dtchen> I generally prefer apport-generated entries, but I'm flexible. Beggars can't be choosers.
[05:45] <hyperair> dtchen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/467954
[05:46] <hyperair> JanC: another reason is that the post-release effects of ubuntu traffic is rather devastating on the closest mirror and i don't particularly feel like waiting.
[05:47]  * hyperair is on the same LAN as sg.r.u.c which also happens to be an archives mirror
[05:49] <JanC> hyperair: okay, that's a reason not to install it now maybe  ;)
[05:49] <hyperair> indeed
[05:49] <JanC> still no reason to uninstall it  ;)
[05:49] <hyperair> well i never knew about the enabled=0 trick
[05:49] <hyperair> thanks for that
[05:49] <hyperair> i got rid of it because apport-collect or whatever was annoying the crap out of me
[05:50] <hyperair> at one point of time, notify-osd was a frequent crasher
[05:50] <JanC> if you are debuging stuff, the blacklist stuff is very useful too
[05:50] <hyperair> but you'd never notice because it gets automatically restarted
[05:50] <hyperair> and then apport-collect or whatver kept getting fired off >_>
[05:50] <hyperair> it annoyed the crap out of me
[05:51] <JanC> hehe, you can also blacklist certain bugs instead of the application
[05:52] <JanC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport/DeveloperHowTo#Bug%20patterns
[05:53] <m4t> so i've tried 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg' per the ubuntu wiki, to try to get an xorg.conf, but it doesn't write anything out
[05:53] <hyperair> hmm i see
[05:53] <m4t> is there a way to dump the running xorg.conf?
[05:54] <hyperair> i think there's a way but i can't rmember
[05:54] <JanC> m4t: xorg.conf is mostly empty anyway
[05:54] <dtchen> hyperair: trying removing the power_save_controller=N parameter from the options snd-hda-intel line in /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf
[05:54] <dtchen> hyperair: (it defaults to power_save_controller=Y)
[05:55] <hyperair> dtchen: that just gives me clicks.
[05:55] <hyperair> dtchen: and this bug has happened since intrepid
[05:55] <hyperair> it's nothing recent
[05:55] <dtchen> huh
[05:55] <hyperair> actually jaunty as well
[05:55] <m4t> janc, i need a template of what's being used for keyboard/mouse/etc
[05:55] <m4t> so that i can run aticonfig and get proper 3d accel
[05:55] <hyperair> dtchen: no wait, i think jaunty didn't give me jack detection at all
[05:56] <hyperair> dtchen: so intrepid is the first release in which jack detection worked. in other words, it was like this from day one, and i didn't give it much thought
[05:56] <m4t> heh..
[05:56] <m4t> i just touch'd it and aticonfig took
[05:56] <m4t> good call, JanC
[05:56] <JanC> m4t: http://paste.ubuntu.com/306444/ is the default config on all of my systems...  ;)
[05:57] <JanC> that's also what's in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.failsafe apparently
[05:57] <m4t> hrm yea thats what i needed
[05:58] <JanC> except that failsafe has vesa
[05:58] <m4t> empty file worked fine though
[05:58] <m4t> brb
[05:58] <JanC> except that vesa isn't failsafe  ;)
[05:59] <JanC> * isn't always failsafe
[05:59]  * JanC has a SiS system where the video card crashes when using vesa  :P
[06:02] <hyperair> lol
[06:02] <hyperair> my SiS system uses nvidia =p
[06:02] <hyperair> except that nvidia's 96 drivers are a steaming pile of crap >_>
[06:03] <JanC> it has SiS video
[06:03] <hyperair> i can't even get a proper desktop that does not quiver under metacity >_>
[06:03] <hyperair> i suppose SiS video is not "VESA-compatible" then
[06:03] <JanC> which has a driver written by a guy for his laptop 10 years ago, and not updated for 5 years  ;)
[06:03] <hyperair> >_>
[06:03] <hyperair> so take over
[06:03] <JanC> hyperair: well, on another system with the same hardware (AFAIK) it works
[06:04] <hyperair> meh
[06:04] <hyperair> weird stuff.
[06:04] <JanC> so I assume it's a BIOS issue
[06:04] <hyperair> mmhm
[06:05] <syn-ack> alright. Toolchain updated.
[06:07] <wip> lots changed in karmic or it's me that is retarded :) how to give permission to all user to raw1394 module? i tried all the past solution without success: http://freebob.sourceforge.net/index.php/UdevConfiguration#Allow_access_to_all_users
[06:08] <wip> there is no permissions.d in karmic
[06:09] <lifeless> #ubuntu for support please
[06:11] <wip> lifeless: no luck there
[06:13] <wip> i would prefer to avoid to write a file in init.d/raw1394 for chmod 777 /dev/raw1394...
[07:42] <mneptok> does Ubiquity do disk encryption yet?
[07:43] <mneptok> i really want to encrypt partitions on the wife's netbook, but the only install option is the LiveCD via USB key.
[07:46] <RAOF> mneptok: Why doesn't alternate CD via USB key work?
[07:46] <lifeless> mneptok: karmic has encrypted home
[07:47] <lifeless> mneptok: using cryptfs rather than block encryption, its pretty good
[07:47] <lifeless> mneptok: and a /lot/ faster than having all the system binaries encrypted
[07:50] <mneptok> RAOF: the netbook does not detect ext filesystems, and the kernel on the alternate CD is built without vfat support
[07:50] <wgrant> mneptok: Why is this netbook doing any filesystem detection?
[07:50] <lifeless> mneptok: you need VFat to install?
[07:51] <lifeless> wgrant: I'm guessing EFI boot or some such
[07:51] <mneptok> lifeless: if the install media is on a vfat USB key, yes
[07:51] <mneptok> wgrant: "No operating system detected"
[07:51] <wgrant> Oh.
[07:51] <wgrant> Right.
[07:51] <lifeless> mneptok: and that usb key boots on other machines?
[07:51] <mneptok> lifeless: haven;t tried
[07:52] <wgrant> usb-creator writes to a vfat partition.
[07:52] <wgrant> Forgot that.
[07:52] <mneptok> the solution here is to either make the USB Creator app work with alternate CDs (i.e. build vfat support into the -alternate kernel) or just allow encryption from Ubiquity
[07:52] <lifeless> mneptok: I suspect its not partitioned right, fs of the usb key doesn't matter to boot from it, you need the active bit set ...
[07:53] <lifeless> mneptok: there are two other options
[07:53] <lifeless> mneptok: a) use homedir encryption, which is supported
[07:53] <wgrant> lifeless: Odd that usb-creator seems to always use vfat, then.
[07:53] <lifeless> mneptok: b) partition by hand and mount the luks partitions, *then* run ubiquity
[07:53] <mneptok> i don't want swap, /var, and other sensitive areas exposed.
[07:54] <wgrant> Ubiquity does crypto-swap if you encrypt the home directories.
[07:54] <lifeless> there was a HOWTO for doing this on forums/wiki somewhere, back in oh, hardy or thereabouts - its still valid
[07:54] <mneptok> i could do it.
[07:54] <wgrant> It's a horrible method, but it works.
[07:55] <mneptok> but instead i'll sit here asking "with the popularity of Linux on netbooks, shouldn't disk encryption be available to the average user via a GUI installer?"
[07:55] <eboysr> So I have my patch for gnome-control-center that I love very much (almost done testing it), and I want to submit it into Launchpad. It's not really fixing a bug, and it's not really a feature.. but how can I submit it? Also, I am guessing that it might not be included in gnome-control-center for Karmic because it is already shipped, right?
[07:55] <mneptok> you know .... like Fedora :P
[07:56] <wgrant> mneptok: Home directory and swap encryption is done. /var isn't particularly important on normal desktop systems, is it?
[07:56] <lifeless> eboysr: submit a merge request to the lucid branch
[07:56] <lifeless> eboysr: or a bug with a patch
[07:56] <lifeless> eboysr: do not get hung up on 'bug == defect'
[07:56] <lifeless> bug == 'something to change'
[07:57] <mneptok> wgrant: it's my system, i decide what i want to protect. it's not up to developers to tell me what data of mine is sensitive and which data is OK being stolen. no offense. :)
[07:57] <eboysr> As opposed to 'something to add'? :P Alright thanks lifeless.
[07:58] <mdz> dtchen, I suggest attach_file or attach_file_if_exists instead of command_output(['cat',...])
[08:00] <eboysr> What is a merge request?
[08:00] <dtchen> mdz: err, for /proc/ ...?
[08:03] <dtchen> mdz: i.e., if /proc/asound/version doesn't exist, there are larger problems, but if you feel that attach_file_if_exists is better, sure.
[08:41] <JanC> mneptok: I guess you just need to set the boot flag for the partition, but IIRC USB-creator doesn't partition the disk; when you partition the usb key and add a vfat partition with the boot flag set, and then use unetbootin to copy the stuff from the .iso to the USB key, it should work I think
[08:41] <JanC> at least, that's how I got a thin client to boot from USB  ;)
[08:41] <JanC> stupid BIOS manufacturers
[09:47] <fale> I have seen that today the Lucid branch has been opened... Is there a list of "asked features" or stuff like that to purpose personal ideas?
[10:08] <goodnight> any news about ext4 bug?
[10:08] <dupondje> bug # ?
[10:09] <goodnight> 453579
[10:10] <goodnight> first one on this list https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs
[10:13] <eboyjr> Whoah scary
[10:14] <goodnight> yeah
[10:16] <dupondje> seems like almost nobody can reproduce ...
[10:18] <eboyjr> Then it's a hardware problem with the computer :P
[10:23] <dupondje> seems like 3 people can reproduce it ...
[10:23] <dupondje> so it seems to happen in very rare cases ;)
[10:26] <eboyjr> I wonder what they all have in common in their configuration
[10:26] <eboyjr> I know its too obvious :P
[11:46] <mdke> cjwatson: ok, no worries - give me a poke if you do and I'll update help.u.c
[13:16] <mantiena> hi all
[13:16] <mantiena> I've noticed lots of identifical bugreports about jaunty->karmic upgrading problems when users have ttf-mscorefonts-installer, maybe someone from Ubuntu developers can assign bug #464422 to the right person and increase importance ? Every day since karmic release about 10 identifical bugs are reported about this problem :(
[13:19] <mantiena> This problem appears because ttf-mscorefonts-installer always tries to download fonts from internet servers without asking if user wants to do this and returns an error if there are no access to the fonts download locations
[13:47] <hyperair> ALSA lib conf.c:2700:(snd_config_hooks_call) Cannot open shared library libasound_module_conf_pulse.so
[13:47] <hyperair> ALSA lib pcm.c:2211:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM default
[13:47] <hyperair> hmm strange..
[13:47] <hyperair> dtchen: ^^ you know anything about this?
[13:54] <hyperair> http://pastebin.com/f46da290e
[13:54] <hyperair> seems that alsa stopped looking in /usr/lib/alsa-lib for its things?
[14:04] <Shockrates> hi does ubuntu have a gui for more stuff than other distros that use gnome? i mean have the ubuntu developers tweaked the gnome gui?
[14:04] <Shockrates> and what about kde
[14:18] <mantiena> Shockrates: you should ask such questions on #ubuntu channel, this channel is for development
[14:37] <engla> DktrKranz: I emailed you about Kupfer
[14:39] <DktrKranz> hi engla, I haven't received it yet, what's it about?
[14:40] <hyperair> dtchen: nevermind, ignore everything i said earlier -- ld.so.cache went and got screwed.
[14:42] <engla> DktrKranz: circumventing kupfer-activate.sh breaks some features that are only implemented by that script
[14:42] <engla> DktrKranz: oh my these undecipherable upstream you think
[14:43] <engla> DktrKranz: mostly kupfer "some text here" will send that to the running instance
[14:43] <DktrKranz> engla: oh gosh!
[14:43] <engla> DktrKranz: I use it only to grab directories from the cli. I'm an cli-desktop unification activist
[14:43] <engla> kupfer docs/   if docs is a file in the current directory is really practical
[14:44] <DktrKranz> engla: does it require d-bus service too?
[14:44] <engla> no
[14:45] <DktrKranz> ok, so it's quite easy to solve
[14:45] <engla> it is not a perfect feature. the query part is ignored if kupfer is not running
[14:45] <engla> but in that case, kupfer starts connected to the terminal where the user calls it
[14:47] <DktrKranz> I'll look at it later this afternoon
[14:49] <engla> there is no hurry
[15:24] <janjiss> Hi guys
[15:24] <janjiss> I would like to know how can i contribute to ubuntu?
[15:25] <janjiss> Somone?
[15:25] <hyperair> janjiss: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu -- sometimes a google search can do wonders.
[15:26] <janjiss> I guess.
[15:26] <janjiss> ..
[15:27] <hyperair> patience can also do wonders
[15:27] <hyperair> not everyone in the channel is active all the time.
[15:27] <janjiss> I am sorry :(
[15:56] <emma> Hey Ubuntu Developers. I just now installed Karmic. You all did a marvelous job. Speaking as a run of the mill user, I really love it and I wanted to thank you all!  It looks like the best one ever! :)
[16:02] <sivang> does anybody know if sound is fixed for the nvidia ion platform ?
[16:02] <sivang> it's broken in jaunty
[16:10] <mehdi2> hi, sorry maybe not related to this channel, where can I get some info about fonts removed in Karmic vs Jaunty
[16:12] <mehdi2> Karmic has poor persian (farsi) support vs Jaunty and I want to document it for the community in a simple way...
[16:17] <mantiena> mehdi2: so, you could use http://wiki.ubuntu.com for this, just search before creating new article, maybe someone already started the article about persian (farsi) language support
[16:22] <mehdi2> mantiena: I've not resolved it yet, I don't know what has changed in Karmic vs Jaunty... I know some fonts removed in karmic but after installing them in karmic still no change... Serif was mapped to Nazli in Jaunty (which is right facing) but in Karmic it is mapped to DejaVu Serif which is ugly and unreadable in persian
[16:35] <mantiena> mehdi2: if you have some questions to ubuntu developers you can ask them at http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[16:36] <mehdi2> mantiena: ok, ty
[16:45] <elmoz> does anyone have instructurions to install/use LVM with 9.10 desktop?  I found several but can not run the step 'modprobe dm-mod' - says no such module
[17:29] <ebroder> I seem to remember hearing of plans to upload a recent kernel for Hardy - did that ever happen?
[17:36] <mantiena> ebroder: are you sure, that there were such plans? Could you point any link to official Ubuntu blogs or blueprints or mailing lists?
[17:36] <ebroder> mantiena: No, that's why I'm asking about it
[17:42] <apetrescu> Hey, is there any easy way to get ARM cross-compiling capabilities in GCC? Like, a repository package or something? I know I can just compile my own gcc but I'd rather not if I don't have to
[17:49] <iWolf> I would like to help develop Ubuntu
[17:49] <iWolf> Where should i get started?
[17:50] <azeem> in #ubuntu-motu
[17:50] <iWolf> Ok
[17:50] <iWolf> thank you!
[17:50] <iWolf> And what should i ask there
[17:50] <iWolf> I would like to become a developer?
[17:50] <azeem> you already asked
[17:51] <iWolf> Oh,
[17:51] <iWolf> Ill join soon (Hopefully)
[18:03] <iWolf> Does anyone know about the suspend problem?
[18:04] <apetrescu> the suspend problem?
[18:09] <iWolf> Yes
[18:10] <iWolf> [Whoever] Closes The Lid. Opens It Up And It Wont Resume
[18:20] <hyperair> does anyone know what's /var/lib/dpkg/triggers/Unincorp for?
[18:20] <hyperair> it seems a recent strange ext4 corruption landed me with a corrupted file there
[18:25] <Nitsuga> hyperair, I think that Unicorp is some kind of journal of dpkg actions
[18:25] <Nitsuga> just looked at my unincorp file and found it has 0 bytes and is an empty text file.
[18:25] <hyperair> hmm i see
[18:25] <hyperair> okay
[18:25]  * hyperair sighs
[18:26] <hyperair> one of these days, my / is going to get so corrupted i'd have to reinstall =.=
[18:26] <Nitsuga> hyperair, try dpkg -a
[18:26] <hyperair> Nitsuga: ?
[18:27] <Nitsuga> * dpkg --reconfigure -a
[18:27] <hyperair> Nitsuga: i did dpkg --configure -a earlier.
[18:27] <Nitsuga> or was it dpkg-reconfigure
[18:27] <Nitsuga> ahm
[18:27] <hyperair> dpkg --configure
[18:27] <hyperair> i'm pretty sure of it
[18:27] <hyperair> i've been doing dpkg disaster recoveries lately
[18:27] <hyperair> a lot of them
[18:27] <hyperair> stupid ext4 =.=
[18:28] <Nitsuga> My ext4 works great
[18:28] <hyperair> you'd think that after syncing it would have everything in the journal flushed out
[18:28] <Nitsuga> of course i am not pressing that raset button all day long
[18:28] <hyperair>  but no, after a failed resume from hibernation, all kinds of things go wrong
[18:28] <hyperair> =.=
[18:28] <Nitsuga> *reset
[18:28] <jdong> well failed resume from hibernation is pretty nasty :)
[18:29] <Nitsuga> I found that s2disk from package uswsusp works really well
[18:29] <hyperair> jdong: i never had an issue with ext3 truncating my files or shoving half a dozen files together
[18:29] <hyperair> i've had files which got replaced with contents they should never had
[18:29] <Nitsuga> always worked anda it's faster
[18:29] <hyperair> i'm using tuxonice
[18:29] <hyperair> it's even faster than uswsusp
[18:29] <YokoZar> I need some guidance on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/procps/+bug/447197  -- any package invoking start procps will fail to install if there's a bad conffile in /etc/sysctl.d, but it's not clear what package to file the bug against (because the package invoking start procps has an ok conf file)
[18:30] <hyperair> YokoZar: start procps || true
[18:31] <hyperair> jdong: i once had a file in /var/lib/dpkg/info replaced with a python script.
[18:31] <jdong> hahaha :)
[18:31] <YokoZar> hyperair: I suppose we could put that in every package init script (eg Wine), but wouldn't a better solution be to have procps not throw the error anyway?
[18:31] <hyperair> jdong: that came after fsck scolded me and accused me of running fsck while / was mounted when it was mounted ro
[18:31] <hyperair> YokoZar: no, i think it should throw and error, or you'd never catch it
[18:32] <hyperair> shouldn't throw an error*
[18:32] <hyperair> er
[18:32] <hyperair> shit
[18:32]  * hyperair bangs head on wall
[18:32] <hyperair> no, i think it should throw an error or you'd never catch it
[18:32] <hyperair> on the other hand, the postinst scripts should ignore the error because dpkg shouldn't be failing just because i messed up one of my configs in /etc
[18:32] <hyperair> a big fat warning might be nice
[18:33] <YokoZar> hyperair: makes sense
[18:33] <YokoZar> hyperair: the other place this error might propagate is at bootup though
[18:33] <YokoZar> or does upstart do something similar
[18:33] <hyperair> no
[18:33] <hyperair> upstart won't die just because one initscript fails
[18:34] <hyperair> a good example is that good-for-nothing sreadahead shit that keeps failing on my boot
[18:34] <hyperair> >_>
[18:34] <YokoZar> the other question is if it's a good idea for sysctl to fail if it finds an invalid key anyway, other than just ignore it
[18:34] <YokoZar> (eg because it's deprecated)
[18:35] <hyperair> hmm that's a good question.
[18:35] <hyperair> i have no idea xD
[18:35] <hyperair> if it's deprecated, then yes probably it should fail i think
[18:36] <YokoZar> The Debian version, for what it's worth, doesn't have the init script propagate sysctl's errors
[18:36] <hyperair> hm is that so?
[18:36] <YokoZar> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=552313
[18:37] <hyperair> how does sysvinit handle failing init scripts?
[18:37] <YokoZar> I don't know
[18:38] <YokoZar> probably very immaturely
[18:38] <hyperair> hmm
[18:38] <hyperair> yeah probably
[18:38] <hyperair> i don't think it'd halt the boot process though..
[18:38] <hyperair> yeah in older versions of ubuntu you get those fancy starting ____ .. OK/FAIL messages don't you?
[18:38] <hyperair> if you remove "quiet" from your kernel commandline
[18:38] <dupondje> does somebody dreams of a launchpad without bugs ? .)
[18:39] <hyperair> dupondje: i dream of a launchpad that's geographically nearer to asia or otherwise grants better speeds here
[18:39] <dupondje> :p
[18:39] <jdong> hyperair: failing init scripts is not the same as failing upstart config files though
[18:39] <dupondje> i'm still trying to find out how to debug nautilus :(
[18:39] <hyperair> jdong: what's the difference?
[18:40] <iWolf> Right now im using Debian, going back to Ubuntu
[18:40] <jdong> hyperair: one upstart job can significantly change the meaning dependency-wise.
[18:40] <iWolf> (On Other PC)
[18:40] <hyperair> jdong: well yes, but procps doesn't emit any events, does it?
[18:40] <jdong> hyperair: whether or not it does, upstart doesn't know that
[18:40] <Nitsuga> hyperair, Launchpad is slow even inside Canonical building
[18:40] <hyperair> Nitsuga: okay, that sucks.
[18:41] <pecisk> by the way, is there hw database with info collected from Ubuntu hardware testing tool?
[18:41] <hyperair> jdong: you're supposed to declare beforehand which events you'll fire off aren't you?
[18:41] <hyperair> jdong: as long as nothing depends on "started procps" then it should be fine i think
[18:42] <hyperair> jdong: also upstart doesn't go by dependencies, init-ng does. upstart goes by events
[18:42] <YokoZar> So it seems like we have 3 options: 1) Quiet down sysctl so it doesn't throw these errors on unknown commands, 2) Change procps upstart job to not care about sysctl errors, 3) Change every package with a sysctl.d conffile to ignore start procps errors
[18:42] <jdong> now you're just nitpicking :) dependencies, events, either way it's modelable as a DAG
[18:44] <hyperair> jdong: =P
[18:45] <hyperair> YokoZar: i think this should be discussed with the debian maintainer of procps.
[18:45] <YokoZar> hyperair: I think we differ from debian there don't we?
[18:45] <hyperair> yeah we do
[18:46] <hyperair> so i think some discussion should be held with debian to see which approach is better
[18:46] <hyperair> #3 is a very messy solution
[18:46] <hyperair> every package with a sysctl.d conffile will need to be merged instead of synced
[18:46] <YokoZar> Yeah that was my thought
[18:46] <YokoZar> but it seems to be what keybuck wants (he closed the procps task invalid at the bug report)
[18:47] <hyperair> imo drag both ubuntu and debian maintainers of procps into a discussion about this =\
[18:48] <hyperair> it's in everyone's best interest, is it not?
[18:49] <hyperair> #1 seems somewhat feasible, #2 seems like a wild hack unless some consensus beteween ubuntu and debian is achieved, and #3 ends up as a very messy solution
[21:17] <ebroder> Can somebody accept the milestone for Hardy for bug #466769? I'm always afraid to close a bug against the current release because I feel like it's going to slip through the cracks
[21:47] <hdon> any inclination to migrate ubuntu support to something like google wave? threaded instant message seems ideal
[22:05] <MsMaco> pitti: sorry for the mistagging
[23:05] <MsMaco> bug 255651 ... can the floppy module just be put in /etc/modules by default and then if you dont have a floppy nothing'll happen anyway??
[23:12] <tjgillespie_> all, just curious, what mechanism does ubuntu use to automatically load kernel module when you attach hardware?
[23:27] <MsMaco> tjgillespie_: udev?
[23:28] <tjgillespie_> MsMaco well i have udev running on gentoo.... and it doesn't seem to be doing anythig, that's all
[23:28] <MsMaco> oh. was a guess. we had hal and devicekit for a bit but 9.10 isnt sposed to be using them...
[23:28] <tjgillespie_> odd
[23:29] <tjgillespie_> MsMaco ok thanks for the help, i thought i was missing a piece but obvously something's just broken :P
[23:29] <dtchen> err, 9.10 certainly does use udev, hal, and devicekit.
[23:29] <MsMaco> dtchen: i thought you said earlier that devicekit was removed?
[23:29] <MsMaco> *shrug*
[23:29] <dtchen> MsMaco: no, you misheard. I said that devicekit is on the way out.
[23:29] <MsMaco> tjgillespie_: listen to whatever dtchen says. he's used to hardware
[23:30] <dtchen> no, you should probably go read what upstream says about halsectomy
[23:30] <tjgillespie_> devicekit is on the way out already?
[23:30] <dtchen> I'm dumb; Google is smrt.
[23:30] <tjgillespie_> as in, it's being retired?
[23:30] <MsMaco> but you're like a google aggregator!