[00:02] <Sphinx_away> Hello, I just wanted to see what is happening here.
[00:02] <Sphinx_away> bazhang: thanks for asking
[00:02] <bazhang> Sphinx_away, ok. as per the topic though could you please part
[00:03] <Flannel> Sphinx_away: We take care of operator related requests in the ubuntu channels.  In order to make our jobs easier, we do ask people don't idle/spectate here though.  Thank you for your understanding, we appreciate it.
[00:07] <Flannel> derek_smart: Do you know why you were banned?
[00:08] <derek_smart> yes i was being disruptive in the channel
[00:10] <Flannel> derek_smart: And if you're unbanned, will you continue to be disruptive?
[00:11] <derek_smart> never again
[00:12] <Flannel> derek_smart: Have you read the IRC guidelines and the Code of Conduct?
[00:13] <derek_smart> upon getting banned i skimmed over the two in order to prevent further displays of buffonery
[00:13] <derek_smart> lest i get banned once again
[00:13] <derek_smart> although i must admit that i dont know every entry by heart
[00:14] <Flannel> derek_smart: Alright.  Take some time right now and actually read them, not just skim.
[00:14] <Flannel> You really shouldn't accuse other people of not following the code of conduct if you haven't yourself read them.
[00:16] <derek_smart> im having issues understanding the following
[00:16] <derek_smart> "Members of every project come and go and Ubuntu is no different. When somebody leaves or disengages from the project, in whole or in part, we ask that they do so in a way that minimises disruption to the project."
[00:16] <Flannel> derek_smart: What about that don't you understand?
[00:17] <derek_smart> i am not part of a project so i assume it does not apply, unless the irc channel is considered a project
[00:17] <derek_smart> is it?
[00:17] <elky> that is more aimed at developers and team leaders than irc channel chatters
[00:18] <elky> but it basically means "dont kick over sand castles and throw the toys out of the sand pit"
[00:18] <elky> the way it refers to the irc channels would be like "dont be rude on your way out the door" kind of thing
[00:19] <elky> that make sense? :)
[00:20] <derek_smart> well ive read the code of conduct (COC) in its entirety. im considerably more apt (apt-get get-it?) for #ubuntu, or at least id like to think so
[00:20] <Flannel> derek_smart: And the IRC guidelines?
[00:21] <derek_smart> one more question -- is talk about The Hurd appreciated?
[00:21] <derek_smart> oh i have overlooked the document in question, ill ammend this shortly
[00:22] <Flannel> derek_smart: Hurd doesn't apply to Ubuntu support, so it would be offtopic in #ubuntu
[00:24] <ubot3`> In #ubuntu-release-party, emma said: !no, isitout is <reply> Yes! And it's wonderful! Please try to use a torrent or a mirror to get your downloads. Torrents at http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
[00:24] <derek_smart> ok i guess my behaviour fits under attention grabbing
[00:28] <derek_smart> im done reading it btw
[00:28] <derek_smart> im ready to be reinstated (i kinda feel like the main guy in clockwork orange after rehabilitation)
[00:32] <Flannel> derek_smart: Alright, I've removed your ban.
[00:32] <derek_smart> most gracious
[00:33] <derek_smart> ~~Cloud Of Smoke~~
[00:33] <ubot3`> derek_smart: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[00:35] <topyli> Sphinx_away, anything we can help you with?
[01:17] <tsimpson> bot'll be back soon
[04:45] <wgrant> !keyserver
[04:45] <wgrant> +1
[04:46] <wgrant> I recommend s/pgp.mit.edu/pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/ too
[04:49] <mneptok> Sphinx_away: if you have no further business here, as per the /topic could you please /part ?
[04:49] <mneptok> Sphinx_away: you were asked to do this almost 5 hours ago
[04:59] <MenZa> mneptok: /remove?
[04:59] <MenZa> mneptok: (also, good morning)
[05:00] <MenZa> &w 77
[05:03] <rww> Good day folks. The !keyserver factoid points to http://keyserver.ubuntu.com/ . This is not the correct URL, as the keyserver's web interface is on port 11371.
[05:20] <MenZa> Does mikeru have a history?
[05:21] <MenZa> It sounds familiar.
[05:21] <MenZa> rww: orly :o
[05:21] <MenZa> !keyserver
[05:22] <MenZa> rww: I don't have bot access to change factoids, but I'll poke someone who does when they return :)
[05:22] <rww> MenZa: thanks :)
[05:22] <MenZa> rww: get your butt back to -ot
[09:00] <Sphinx_away> Hello, I am sorry for being too long time yesterday here.
[09:03] <Sphinx_away> I spent few hours on kubuntu channel and it seemed to me that the questions that incomming people had could be more easily answered if there was some FAQ ... with basic commands/recipes. I think that is so usual that there must be something. So is there some doc where basic users can find how to repair their grub, boot from live cd ...?
[09:04] <Sphinx_away> I asked on kubuntu channed and was told to go here.
[09:07] <Sphinx> The person who advised me to go here mentionned that ubuntu bot is not complex now to do this
[09:08] <Sphinx> and btw, I was here for several hours, because I went to sleep and have not read your messages before that.
[09:20] <mneptok> Sphinx: such things are better discussed in #ubuntu-irc
[09:21] <Sphinx> Ah, okay, so what is this channel good for? I mean with what issues shold I go here?
[09:21] <Sphinx> I do not get it clearly
[09:21] <mneptok> Sphinx: and the Ubuntu wiki already provides most of what you suggest
[09:21] <Sphinx> mneptok: it would be better if it could be automated by a bot
[09:21] <mneptok> this channel is for problems and issues with IRC that require ops attention
[09:21] <Sphinx> ah, okay
[09:22] <Sphinx> then I get why I was kicked
[09:22] <mneptok> !info digikam
[09:22] <mneptok> !photos
[09:22] <mneptok> !mp3
[09:22] <Sphinx> mneptok: yes, but try to get how to repair grub
[09:22] <mneptok> !grub
[09:22] <Sphinx> which is quite freqent issue
[09:22] <mneptok> !grub2
[09:23] <Sphinx> yes, those are projects, but not guidelines
[09:23] <mneptok> uhhh
[09:23] <mneptok> the links all point to wiki entries on how to use and repair grub
[09:23] <Sphinx> mneptok: you know something like: Annonymous just enters the room ... Hi all, I need help, my kubuntu doesnot boot ...
[09:24] <Sphinx> mneptok: it might be good idea to add links for basic things to bot
[09:24] <mneptok> and a bot answers without specifically being asked a question? bad idea in a channel of 100+ people
[09:24] <mneptok> or 1000+
[09:25] <Sphinx> mneptok: yes, of course, but yesterday I spent there several hours and maybe 4 of 7 users I advised needed this kind of information
[09:26] <mneptok> and you should refer them to the wiki pages with detailed instruction on how to repair grub just like the bot refers people to those pages
[09:26] <MenZa> Sphinx: Invoke the bot 7 times, then.
[09:26] <mneptok> !away > Sphinx
[09:26] <mneptok> and there's something just for you ;)
[09:27] <Sphinx> mneptok: yes, wouldn't it be good idea to use something like ubottu: grub-reparation: see http://
[09:27] <Sphinx> mneptok: thanks
[09:27] <mneptok> Sphinx: i fail to see how that's any better than the existing factoid
[09:28] <MenZa> Sphinx: Give a man a fish and he'll be fed for the day. Teach a man to fish and he'll be fed for the rest of his life.
[09:28] <MenZa> Sphinx: It gives new users a chance to dig through documentation to solve problems in the future.
[09:28] <Sphinx> mneptok: it is an extension ... MenZa: yes I want to have just nicer table to teach the men
[09:28] <MenZa> They might even learn something about other things than their specific issue they can use if they get a differerent error some other time.
[09:29] <Sphinx> MenZa: well, yes that is what I talk about
[09:30] <Sphinx> MenZa: it is easy to point them to wiki, but you have to repeat that every time so having some message that could contain description of error and point to several links would be nice and more handy to me
[09:30] <Sphinx> not to people I advise to
[09:31] <mneptok> Sphinx: you'd have to repeat that for every user, too
[09:31] <Sphinx> It could contain also some information like: grub is ... to do ...
[09:31] <Sphinx> mneptok: yes, but it would save my fingers
[09:31] <MenZa> ubottu is not the "All-Knowing Ubuntu Encyclopedia"
[09:31] <MenZa> It's, among other things, a factoid tracker for common problems.
[09:31] <mneptok> Sphinx: no one forces you to be on IRC, or to help people when you are.
[09:31] <Sphinx> MenZa: no, I do not speak about major changes, just small improvements
[09:32] <Sphinx> mneptok: sorry, bad verb, ... conserve ?
[09:33] <mneptok> Sphinx: the bot's functionality has worked very well for a long time. and i think it falls under the "ain't broke, not fixing" umbrella
[09:33] <Sphinx> mneptok:  I like to be here and try solve other peoples problem, I do not want to complain, just want to know whom address to with small improvement
[09:33] <Sphinx> mneptok: ah, opk
[09:33] <mneptok> Sphinx: spend some time learning how to use what is already there
[09:34] <Sphinx> mneptok: where to find intro/guide ..?
[09:34] <Sphinx> guidelines?
[09:34] <mneptok> Sphinx: watch on #ubuntu
[09:34] <bazhang> http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi Sphinx
[09:34] <mneptok> Sphinx: many people use the bot every day
[09:34] <Sphinx> mneptok: yes, I know
[09:35] <Sphinx> however if it is not improved time to time, what will happen with it
[09:36] <Sphinx> nevertheless, I get the state
[09:36] <Sphinx> thanks for links and intro to ubuntu channels :-)
[09:36] <mneptok> np. enjoy your time on IRC.
[09:37] <mneptok> and with that, it's bedtime
[09:37]  * Gary tucks mneptok in
[09:38]  * mneptok goes to dream of carnivorous toilets trampling a mesozoic landscape
[09:39] <mneptok> oh, and a nude Gary pole-vaulting over megalodons while whistling Lloyd-Webber tunes
[09:39] <mneptok> (i have an .... interesting ... fantasy life)
[09:40] <Gary> only fantasy?
[09:40] <mneptok> Gary: until you can pole-vault the Atlantic, yes :(
[09:51] <jussi01> ubottu: ping
[09:51] <jussi01> ubot3:  ping
[09:51] <ubot3> pong!
[11:52] <MasterJimmy> hey guys, i deserve to offer you all an apology. I'm a Christian, and I've been acting, well....utterly horrible since i've been on these IRC rooms. I don't curse in real life, and i certainly don't say and talk about the things i have here in real life. I sincerely apologize for my actions. Maybe you don't see it as being a bad thing, but for me, I'm showing you a bad name for those who are christians. I apologize.
[11:52] <MasterJimmy> this is Psinetic btw
[11:53] <MasterJimmy> just thought i'd toss that in there. a simple "i'm sorry" isn't good enough. catch you guys later.
[12:16] <bazhang> interesting
[12:19] <elky> if i s/christian/human/ then it does make sense.
[13:54] <jussi01> ubottu: join #ubuntu-release-party
[13:59] <jussi01> arrgh
[13:59] <jussi01> @login
[14:01] <jussi01> nalioth: can you make sure ubot3 syncs factoids soon?
[14:37] <nhandler> Just out of curiosity, when are you guys planning on removing the forward on #ubuntu+1 ?
[17:02] <Pici> @login
[17:21] <jussi01> nhandler: usually alpha 1.
[17:41] <Pici> or just before it
[18:00] <Psinetic> someone please explain to me why the mod warns me and i get kicked right after...
 !stop | Psinetic
 Psinetic: NOTICE - Please stop NOW. This conversation is making someone uncomfortable. Continuing may result in action being taken. You have been warned. Please /msg ubottu o4o for the rules of #ubuntu-offtopic.
[18:00] <Psinetic> * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Seeker`
[18:00] <Psinetic> * You have been kicked from #ubuntu-offtopic by Seeker` (come back when you have calmed down)
[18:00] <Psinetic> * Now talking on #ubuntu-offtopic
[18:00] <Psinetic> since when do people warn and then kick side by side?
[18:00] <nalioth> Psinetic: h00k is not a mod
[18:01] <Psinetic> does it matter?
[18:01] <Psinetic> it was a warning was it not?
[18:01] <nalioth> evidently you are past the 'warning point'
[18:01] <Psinetic> i don't see how.
[18:01] <Psinetic> i was going to stop when i saw that
[18:01] <Psinetic> then i got kicked
[18:01] <Seeker`> why didn't you stop after you were asked to stop the previous time?
[18:02] <Psinetic> because i was asking why saying the word "fag" was such a big deal.
[18:02] <Psinetic> that's why
[18:02] <nalioth> you shouldn't have to wait for a warning to be decent
[18:02] <Seeker`> or do we have to ask you not to use each and every insult individually
[18:03] <Psinetic> seriously, what's up with this being so liberal?
[18:04] <Seeker`> again, what do you mean by "liberal"?
[18:04] <Seeker`> you keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means
[18:05] <Psinetic> i mean i'm not even doing anything major and everyone flips out and gets their panties in a wad at the smallest things
[18:06] <Flannel> Psinetic: You started out poorly with the "fags should die"
[18:06] <Seeker`> the rules of the channel are clearly stated
[18:06] <Seeker`> as far as I am aware, noone is forcing you to chat in that channel
[18:06] <Psinetic> more like stated generally so that the mods and admins can pretty much do whatever they want
[18:07] <Seeker`> and I don't think that the equivalent of "please please help me you jerks" has ever been a good way of asking for help
[18:07] <Psinetic> since you quoted that, i want to see the quote directly from the channel
[18:07] <Psinetic> i didn't say that
[18:08] <Psinetic> don't put words in my mouth
[18:08] <Seeker`> I wasn't quoting you
[18:08] <Seeker`> i said "the equivalent of"
[18:08] <Psinetic> w/e you say
[18:08] <Seeker`> but, since you asked
[18:08] <Seeker`> -19:59:18- :Psinetic : maybe if people weren't a bunch of jerks i'd be fine.
[18:09] <Psinetic> i know i said that. it was a response to someone else
[18:09] <Psinetic> not related to my question at all
[18:09] <Psinetic> so again, don't put words in my mouth please
[18:10] <Seeker`> again, i said that you said _the equivalent of_ that. You called everyone jerks, and I really hope you won't try to argue that you weren't asking for help
[18:11] <Psinetic> how about you guys give me a list of words i shouldn't use instead of just saying "don't say that!!!!!" every five freaking seconds. i say something and you freak out and some idiot calls ops on me for no darn reason.
[18:11] <Psinetic> you say, " be nice to everyone and make a family oriented" but honestly my family isn't your family and i have no idea what's going to tick you off
[18:12] <Seeker`> ok, is calling someone a jerk nice?
[18:12] <Seeker`> is calling some a fag nice?
[18:12] <Seeker`> is calling someone a retard nice?
[18:12] <Psinetic> i didn't call anyone a retard
[18:13] <Psinetic> and i was displaying my frustration with my ISP, not anyone in the channel was called a fag
[18:13] <Seeker`> no, you said you had to talk like a retard to be accepted in the channel
[18:13] <Psinetic> and i called people jerks because that's how they were treating me from my perspective
[18:13] <Psinetic> and i do have to talk like a retard to be accepted in the channel
[18:14] <nalioth> is wishing death on someone nice?
[18:14] <Seeker`> no, you just have to stop insulting people
[18:14] <nalioth> Psinetic: we ask everyone to be civil
[18:14] <Psinetic> overly civil
[18:15] <Seeker`> I dont think anything we can say will change your mind?
[18:16] <Psinetic> i don't think you were right to have kicked me from the channel. period.
[18:16] <nalioth> Psinetic: and is there a problem with too much civility?
[18:17] <Psinetic> yes there is. it's a point when you go to a private chat and tell me to stop or i'll be booted and trying to control my every move
[18:18] <nalioth> we shouldn't have to tell anyone how to be civil
[18:18] <Psinetic> so i should just copy you and make myself you is that it? apparently i don't know how to be civil, how about you inform me.
[18:19] <nalioth> how about you take a break from #ubuntu-offtopic for a day?
[18:20] <Psinetic> like that's going to change anything
[18:21] <Seeker`> come back when you feel its been long enough for something to have changed?
[18:22] <Psinetic> what's going to change? really? i come into a channel to ask a question and in the process express how frustrated i am about the problem and someone calls ops on me and next thing i know i get booted the very second after i get a warning.
[18:24] <Seeker`> you were warned before that
[18:24] <Seeker`> just after the first expression of "how frustrated" you were
[18:24] <nalioth> Psinetic: please come back in 24h
[18:25] <Psinetic> what's that going to do?
[18:25] <Psinetic> really i pretty much did stop when i was first warned
[18:25] <Psinetic> people kept edging me on
[18:26] <Psinetic> read it again
[18:26] <Psinetic> i just did
[18:26] <nalioth> 1257099957 12:25 < Psinetic> people kept edging me on  <--- this isn't "surrogates" or "gamer".  YOU are responsible for your own actions
[18:27] <Psinetic> i was replying to their comments
[18:28] <nalioth> inappropriately, it seems
[18:28] <nalioth> come back and see us in 24h, please
[18:28] <Psinetic> why?
[18:29] <Psinetic> i don't understand why everytime i cross my toes wrong someone just up and kicks me from the stupid channel
[18:30] <Seeker`> I'm not sure what the point of the conversation is any mor
[18:31] <Psinetic> the point is: NEXT TIME YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH SOMEONE TRY TO HANDLE IT IN PRIVATE CONVO, DON'T JUST UP AND KICK ME.
[18:31] <Psinetic> there, that settle it?
[18:31] <jussi01> Psinetic: its obvious to me that a private conversation wouldnt have helped, given the backlog of this channel.
[18:32] <Psinetic> all he had to do was tell me to stop
[18:32] <Psinetic> and i would've stopped
[18:33] <jussi01> Psinetic: the reason we remove people from the channel is to lessen the disturbance created. Usually this means we add a forward to here so we can chat to the user, having a similar effect.
[18:33] <Psinetic> yeah i joined this channel on my own because i was pissed off that that's the action seeker chose was just to up and kick me
[18:35] <topyli> jussi01, Psinetic is not banned, he's just here to discuss the policy of the pub
[18:35] <jussi01> topyli: Ive been told, thanks
[18:37] <Psinetic> well. thanks for the helps guys. have a good night, i'm certainly not gonna sleep tonight.
[19:44] <Mamarok> !staff
[19:44] <Mamarok> what's going on?
[19:45] <jrib> Mamarok: excellent question
[19:45] <Pricey> Mamarok: aware, dealing
[19:45] <Mamarok> Pricey: thx, it's in all freenode apparently, #amarok, etc.
[19:50] <Amaranth> eep, chanserv down
[19:50]  * Amaranth waits for floods
[19:51] <Seeker`> what does it mean "nick collision from syn"?
[19:51] <Amaranth> Seeker`: it means something bad happened
[19:51] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[19:52] <Mamarok> maybe somebody made a typo and klined a node...
[19:52] <Mamarok> I mean, a typo cut off Sweden from the internet for a whole day, didn't it?
[19:53] <Mamarok> :)
[19:53] <Amaranth> hehe, nickserv fail
[19:53] <Pricey> 19:53:35 <+~christel> rwg|desktop: the timeprint should inform you that its a kline from february, predating syn -- we're trying to work out why she went  insane now or why she thinks we all match it
[19:54] <Mamarok> 19:53:35 <+~christel> rwg|desktop: the timeprint should inform you that its a kline from february, predating syn -- we're trying to work out why she went insane now or why she thinks we all match it
[19:54] <Mamarok> what the?
[19:54] <Guest31767> anyone want to paste it a third time
[19:54] <Guest31767> :P
[19:54] <Pricey> Guest31767: you're just tempting me there
[19:55] <Amaranth> 19:53:35 <+~christel> rwg|desktop: the timeprint should inform you that its a kline from february, predating syn -- we're trying to work out why she went insane now or why she thinks we all match it
[19:55] <Amaranth> sure, why not?
[19:55] <Mamarok> :)
[19:55] <Guest31767> cool, thanks
[19:55] <Guest31767> had problems reading it the first two times
[19:55] <Guest31767> that just made it extra clear
[21:03] <nhandler> jussi01 / Pici: Might I suggest opening it up sooner? There is no technical reason not to do so. And technically, once the lucid repos open up, people can "upgrade". There is already a forum on ubuntuforums.org open, and discussion is already underway
[21:06] <ikonia> nhandler: seems a reasonable request, I always wish it was open a bit later as it stops silly people joining and asking to upgrade with no-understanding of the consiquences
[21:07] <nalioth> when are the brakes engaging on #ubuntu-release-party ?
[21:07] <ikonia> nalioth: as soon as you want from my point of view
[21:43] <LjL> just to make you aware there's in excess of 200 in -unregged, i guess because the bots restored +J after the bot killae without anyone noticing
[23:39] <nhandler> ikonia: I have to disagree with you. I would much rather have a person join #ubuntu+1 and have the reasons for not upgrading to lucid at this time explained to them than not provide them with a place to ask their questions and have them just upgrade.
[23:43] <Amaranth> aww, I was enjoying the silence
[23:43] <Amaranth> Seriously though, I've always been for opening the channel sooner
[23:44] <Amaranth> Although this time the lucid repos have existed since release day so that's not a good marker
[23:44] <nalioth> nhandler: at this stage "just upgrading" is a pretty high-level exercise
[23:49] <Pici> I think most people will just try to use #u+1 for support of karmic/jaunty.
[23:50] <Pici> I think we should also close #u-r-p today or tomorrow
[23:50] <nalioth> at this time, you are probably correct, Pici (support for current Ubuntu)
[23:55] <nhandler> nalioth: I wouldn't call it a "high-level exercise". At least in the past, once the toolchain is uploaded, threads on the forums usually start popping up where people explain how you can simply s/karmic/lucid/g in /etc/apt/sources.list to upgrade to lucid. However, I'll leave the decision up to you guys