[02:47] <mauri> test
[03:49] <Animagladius> Night, world.
[04:15] <Corsakh> hey guys
[04:15] <Corsakh> how can i install LVM with Ubuntu?
[04:16] <Corsakh> I did not have this option using 9.10 Live CD
[05:46] <sam_> mike there??
[05:46] <sam_> usersgroup - president.
[05:51] <jmarsden> This is #ubuntu-classroom.  Those seeking help about Ubuntu are more likely to get it in #ubuntu
[05:53] <sam_> k
[05:53] <sam_> thanks
[06:53] <jayt> help
[07:19] <jmarsden> This is #ubuntu-classroom.  Those seeking help about Ubuntu are more likely to get it in #ubuntu
[07:23] <Peon> anyone able to answer a question about raid 5?
[07:24] <MaximB> what was the question ?
[07:25] <Peon> Yesterday my raid dropped 4 of the 7 HDs. I think I have the problem fix, but I'm not totally sure I put the drives back in the same slots, is there anyway to check? or does it really matter?
[07:27] <MaximB> using ubuntu ?
[07:28] <Peon> I would be lost if I loose the raid, it has everything I've ever done since I got my first computer..
[07:28] <MaximB> you can check if you have admda installed ?
[07:28] <Peon> Ya, its on the server downstairs.. I'm not all that good with linux
[07:29] <Peon> sure can, back in a flash.
[07:29] <jmarsden> mdadm, not admda
[07:29] <Peon> Oh,, Ya, thats what I used to build the raid.
[07:30] <jmarsden> OK, so what does cat /proc/mdstat show you now?
[07:30] <MaximB> jmarsden:  right...
[07:30] <MaximB> it's been some time ...
[07:30] <MaximB> mdadm
[07:30] <jmarsden> Peon: This is #ubuntu-classroom.  Those seeking help about Ubuntu are more likely to get it in #ubuntu ... you are very fortunate anyone answered you here :)
[07:31] <MaximB> been bored ;)
[07:33] <MaximB> jmarsden:  what's the diff between this channel and the ubuntu-classroom-chat channel ?
[07:33] <Peon> From what I've seen, I'm lucky to get an answer anywhere.. it died yesterday, for two days I've been trying to find anyone who would help.
[07:33] <jmarsden> MaximB: #ubuntu-classrom is where the teacher teaches, #ubuntu-classroom-chat is where others chat about what he is saying, ask questions, etc.
[07:34] <jmarsden> Peon: #ubuntu should be the right place.  Anyway... what is cat /proc/mdstat showing you ?
[07:34] <Peon> it says that md0 is inactive
[07:34] <jmarsden> pastebin all of its output, please.
[07:35] <Peon> I'll try.. its not on this sytem but the one downstairs.. and I could never get the VNC working.
[07:36] <jmarsden> Since it is inactive, it is not currently working.  The Ubuntu server downstairs has no Internet connection??
[07:37] <jmarsden> Peon: Can you ssh into the "downstairs" machine from the "upstairs" machine?
[07:37] <Peon> It doesn't have a direct connction to the net.. i wanted to keep it safe.
[07:38] <jmarsden> Peon: How do you keep it updated with security fixes etc?
[07:38] <Peon> Personalities : [linear] [multipath] [raid0] [raid1] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] [raid10]
[07:38] <Peon> md0 : inactive sde1[0](S) sdh1[3](S) sdf1[1](S) sdg1[2](S) sdb1[5](S) sdc1[6](S) sda1[4](S)
[07:38] <Peon>       6837319552 blocks
[07:38] <Peon> unused devices: <none>
[07:39] <jmarsden> actually that might be somewhat OK... it can at least see all the drives...
[07:39] <Peon> updates? HMMMM... I think I should rethink the design.
[07:39] <jmarsden> I think so too :)  But for now we need to try and get that RAID active again...
[07:40] <Peon> so the only real question I have right now is, how can i tell if I put the drives back in the right order?
[07:40] <MaximB> Peon:  on one hand as long as it doesn't have internet access none can hack it unless within physical contact, on the other hand updates could be for usability and features and not just security
[07:42] <Peon> Ya, its just ment to be a place to dump everything so we can stream video to every room in the house.
[07:42] <MaximB> Peon:  I wonder, how much GB the RAID has ?
[07:42] <Peon> 6 TB
[07:43] <MaximB> wow
[07:43] <MaximB> are you an hosting service or something ? ;0
[07:43] <Peon> Its mostly TV..
[07:43] <MaximB> I got 1TB on my PC at home , only 1 HD , no RAIDs
[07:43] <jmarsden> Peon: Most people doing home-made RAID write numbers on the drives and the cables with a permanent marker, so you can easily check that...
[07:44] <MaximB> what's done is done
[07:44] <Peon> i've been collecting TV shows since forever.. :-)
[07:44] <MaximB> me too , via torrents
[07:45] <MaximB> btw dexter s4e6 came out yet ?
[07:45] <Peon> Well, heres the thing, Its just two drives that may or may not be in the right order.. i know the rest are.. Just not sure about the last two.
[07:45] <Peon> yes, Dexter is out.
[07:45] <jmarsden> Peon: The numbers in [] in the mdstat output are (I think!) the disk id numbers within the RAID.  Do you know what the original setup was -- drive 0 on the left, then 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
[07:46] <Peon> Yes, it was 0,1,2,3,4,5,6
[07:47] <jmarsden> So right now we have 0=sde1, 1=sdf1, 2=sdg1, 3=sdh1, 4=sda1, 5=sdb1, 6=sdc1
[07:47] <jmarsden> So that looks reasonably likely to be right.
[07:47] <jmarsden> e,f,g,h and a,b,c are nice and orderly
[07:47] <Peon> No, 0 should be sda1 i think.
[07:48] <jmarsden> Peon: Then you have *way* more than 2 drives wrong :)
[07:48] <jmarsden> If it went a,b,c, e,f,g,h then every single drive is "wrong" right now.
[07:49] <Peon> Sorry, my way of describing it is wrong.. there are two esata cables going to the raid
[07:49] <MaximB> I wonder why sda1 is not 0
[07:49] <Peon> both esada's have a breakout box that has 4 drives in it..
[07:50] <jmarsden> Peon: So is your real question... "did I hook up the two cables the right way around?"
[07:50] <Peon> so if it looks wrong, then it will look totally wrong.. And i think your right, it looks totally wrong.
[07:51] <Peon> yes.. And I think you've answered my question.. I'm shutting it down now and making the change..
[07:51] <jmarsden> Peon: Ok, power down, swap the two cables and reboot and check cat /proc/mdstat again.
[07:51] <jmarsden> OK.
[07:53] <Peon> I'd kinda like to sell this setup and go with one that has 8 - 2TB drives.. This one is getting kinda full.
[07:53] <ab000dy> hello
[07:53] <MaximB> hi
[07:54] <Peon> Hi
[07:54] <ab000dy> i heed help in openmpi could you pls help me
[07:54] <ab000dy> HI
[07:55] <MaximB> well, it's not a help channel ...
[07:55] <jmarsden> ab000dy: This is #ubuntu-classroom.  Those seeking help about Ubuntu are more likely to get it in #ubuntu
[07:56] <jmarsden> Peon: Did the cable swap work for you?
[07:56] <Peon> Personalities : [linear] [multipath] [raid0] [raid1] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] [raid10]
[07:56] <Peon> md0 : inactive sdb1[1](S) sdf1[5](S) sdg1[6](S) sde1[4](S) sdd1[3](S) sdc1[2](S) sda1[0](S)
[07:56] <Peon>       6837319552 blocks
[07:56] <Peon> unused devices: <none>
[07:56] <Peon> that looks right.
[07:57] <Peon> does that look right?
[07:57] <jmarsden> Looks more logical, yes.
[07:58] <Peon> Ok, so can I do anykind of test before mounting?
[07:58] <MaximB> there is a way , I think
[07:59] <MaximB> but the problem I had , didn't even let me mount it, I had to use --force and then it worked
[07:59] <MaximB> no data loss
[07:59] <jmarsden> You can try to mount the filesystem read only first.  If that fails you may end up trying out the rather scary instructions at http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO.html#s6 to rewrite your RAID superblocks?
[08:00] <Peon> sheet.. I cant risk it.. I'm just going to have to get someone to come here and fix it..
[08:02] <MaximB> I think it should look like this :
[08:02] <MaximB> mdadm -A sda1 sdb1 sdc1 sde1 sdf1 sdg1
[08:02] <MaximB> but fist mdadm -s
[08:03] <MaximB> *first
[08:05] <Peon> This is too scary for my liking.. All my daughters pictures are on it too.. Do a raid 5 your stuff will be safe... Sigh.
[08:06] <jmarsden> Peon: No... use a RAID array *and* back it up offsite, and you will *usually* be safe ...
[08:08] <Peon> Ya.. I figured out this thing cost me $1100 just for the drives and the case.. I can just guess how much it would cost to back up off site would be.. hahahah
[08:09] <jmarsden> Another $1100 plus bandwidth costs.  Yes.  But that's basically what businesses who have data that is valuable do to try and protect it.  Anyway, at least we answered the first part of your question and you now seem to have the cables connected the right way.
[08:09] <Peon> Yup.. it does look that way.. hey, can I do a chkdsk on it?
[08:11] <jmarsden> chkdsk does not exist in Ubuntu as far as I know.  Once you have the RAID active you could do an e2fsck on the filesystem.
[08:11] <Peon> I remember reading something about unmounting it before you do some kind of check on it.. Hmmm
[08:11] <jmarsden> Until you have the RAID showing as active there is no filesystem which can be checked.
[08:12] <MaximB> fsck
[08:12] <Peon> Ya.. maybe not file system.. maybe it was to check that the structure was setup right.
[08:13] <MaximB>  mdadm -s for checking
[08:13] <Peon> Ida know, I'll look into it tomorrow.. the laptop batterys are just about dead..
[08:13] <MaximB> ok
[08:13] <MaximB> see you
[08:13] <Peon> thanks for your help.. I'll be back tomorrow for classes.. hahahah
[08:14] <jmarsden> Goodnight.
[08:14] <Peon> later all.
[09:01] <balto> ame
[09:19] <ShizzlePDX503> hello everyone
[09:22] <sam_> hello
[09:22] <ShizzlePDX503> guess everyone is sleeping!
[09:24] <sam_> is anyone here?
[09:25] <MaximB> I am
[09:25] <MaximB> but the class isn't started yet
[09:25] <sam_> oh
[09:26] <ShizzlePDX503> thats true... though there was no mention as to what timezone it started in
[09:27] <ShizzlePDX503> at least I didn't see it
[09:27] <sam_> when i was trying to install 9.10, the installation hung on the last bit when it was finalising the installation, so I just crashed it and pulled the CD out, and it sort of seemed to run alright, is that very bad?
[09:27] <ShizzlePDX503> was is a fresh install
[09:28] <sam_> it seems to run alright, although when you turn on the computer it seems to have some small issue with mounting some mysterious drive, but it seems to not worry about it too much, and loads up anyway
[09:28] <sam_> yes it was a fresh install.
[09:28] <sam_> I first tried to install kubuntu and it did the same thing, but it seemed to work
[09:28] <ShizzlePDX503> and you have no idea what drive it is trying to mount?
[09:29] <sam_> but I didn't like kubuntu, it was really weird, sort of like using knoppix, so I put on ubuntu insted
[09:29] <sam_> nah I dunno, maybe c: which I keep XP on? Dunno why it would want to mount it
[09:30] <sam_> I have been using the text based install, as it seems more comforting, maybe I should try the liveCD?
[09:30] <ShizzlePDX503> yeah I would do a livecd install cause if you are trying to keep your XP partition intact
[09:31] <ShizzlePDX503> sounds like grub didn't configure properly
[09:33] <sam_> grub seems to work fine, I can load up windows, or I can load up ubuntu
[09:33] <sam_> the only real issue I am having, is that trying to watch video's online like youtube, the performance is very bad
[09:38] <sam_> I can't see why youtube shouldn't work, my computer is quite powerful
[09:57] <ShizzlePDX503> I have been having problems with youtube as well
[09:58] <ShizzlePDX503> the play button won't work for some reason
[09:59] <ShizzlePDX503> everything was working perfectly in jaunty
[10:18] <ShizzlePDX503> hello
[10:19] <NET||abuse> hi :)
[10:19] <ShizzlePDX503> what time does this session start?
[10:19] <NET||abuse> 3 hours i think.
[10:20] <ShizzlePDX503> oh ok thanks
[10:28]  * nigel_nb is away: I'm not here..Ping me..I'll reply soon
[10:52] <limp> Hi?
[10:59] <drorata> hallo
[11:00] <drorata> can anyone see me?
[11:01] <jussi01> no :P
[11:01] <drorata> :)
[11:01] <drorata> I guess this is the right place to post an UBUNTU question, isn't it?
[11:01] <jussi01> no
[11:02] <jussi01> support is in #ubuntu
[11:02] <drorata> OK. sorry...
[11:28] <TheOne> hi every1
[11:28] <TheOne> what we have in this classroom???
[11:29] <TheOne> any1 here listening???
[11:30] <TheOne> can some1 teach me abt airodump-ng???
[11:31] <Stunner> post on te forums
[11:31] <Stunner> the*
[11:31] <Stunner> you will get better help there
[11:31] <TheOne> actually most of the material is for airodump but there are differences b/w airodump and airodump-ng!!!
[11:38] <Xubuntu> hello
[11:38] <Xubuntu> anyone here
[11:38] <Stunner> ya
[11:38] <Stunner> sup?
[11:39] <Xubuntu> ^^ ty im here because i tried to install wubi on windows 7 i cant
[11:39] <dutchie> Xubuntu: join #ubuntu for support
[11:39] <dutchie> there'll be more people if nothing else
[11:40] <Stunner> fosho
[11:40] <Xubuntu> anyone know if we have beta wubi for windows 7??
[11:43] <ravikumar> Hi can anybody help me with my problem http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1310355
[11:44] <ravikumar> Hello
[11:46] <ravikumar> Hi can anybody help me with my problem http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1310355
[11:50] <jasonjang> just testing --> testing, 1, 2, 3
[11:53] <jasonjang> date -u
[11:58] <shushek> Hello all
[12:00] <TheFunkbomb> so how does this work?
[12:00] <shushek> i was able to toggle betwwn the two workspaces in 8.04 LTS by simply rolling the mouse wheel. But since i upgradeed to 9.10 am unable to do so.. can anyone tell me why?
[12:00] <TheFunkbomb> shushek, support is in #ubuntu
[12:00] <decodedthought> can someone help me with http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1310919
[12:00] <TheFunkbomb> decodedthought, support is #ubuntu
[12:01] <decodedthought> sorry !
[12:02] <shushek> The Funkbomb, could you be kind in providing any link or something by which i can start my search
[12:03] <TheFunkbomb> shushek, try #ubuntu or ubuntuforums.org
[12:03] <MaximB> 1 hour till the teaching begins ?
[12:10] <shushek> I am unable to toggle between the workspaces by scrolling the mouse wheel in 9.10 which i was able to in 8.04, wht is missing?
[12:12] <shushek> i doubt that this converation is over ?
[12:13] <shushek> Funkbomb, i didnt got any reply form #ubuntu..
[12:13] <TheFunkbomb> you have to wait a bit
[12:13] <TheFunkbomb> this isn't the channel to get support
[12:14] <shushek> as you say sire
[12:15] <TheFunkbomb> not as I say, I have no official presence.  It's in the topic
[12:20] <MaximB> TheFunkbomb: how much time till the lesson starts ?
[12:20] <dutchie> 3 hours or so
[12:20] <TheFunkbomb> I have no idea
[12:20] <MaximB> wow
[12:20] <TheFunkbomb> I'm setting up logging so I don't miss anything
[12:21] <MaximB> I thought in 40 minutes
[12:21]  * jasonjang is away: 자리 비웁니다.
[12:21] <dutchie> Mon Nov  2 12:21:30 UTC 2009
[12:21] <popey> jasonjang: could you please turn that away spam off.
[13:18] <br549> hi, does anyone know if ubuntu moblin remix supports multiple user accounts?
[13:22] <philkav> hi - can anyone help me with a boot loader problem?
[13:23] <pleia2> support is in #ubuntu, this channel is for hosting classes - like Ubuntu Open Week, starting later today :)
[13:23] <philkav> ok thanks
[13:24] <Loisha> hello
[13:27] <yos> When are the classes starting ?
[13:28] <pleia2> yos: 15:00 UTC
[13:28] <yos> Cool
[13:28] <Loisha> date -u
[13:29] <Loisha> i m from switzerland
[13:30] <Loisha> what time do they start in my country?
[13:30] <pleia2> Loisha: in an hour and a half
[13:31] <Loisha> thankx
[13:47] <prabodha1> date -u
[13:52] <xantara> hi anybody from kenya here?
[14:27] <rbscycle> Is 9.10 actually available for iBook G4 MAC?
[14:28] <rbscycle> I am currently on my iBook G4 ubder Ubuntu 8.04...
[14:28] <jayvee_zzZZ> yep
[14:28] <jayvee_zzZZ> look for ubuntu-ports
[14:28] <rbscycle> thanks
[14:28] <jayvee_zzZZ> technically 'unsupported' though
[14:29] <jayvee_zzZZ> would highly recommend opensuse or fedora for ppc
[14:31] <X3MBoy> ping
[14:31] <slyph> Pong
[14:32] <X3MBoy> sorry, I was testing my connection
[14:32] <slyph> anyone able to answer a quick noobie question?
[14:33] <slyph> Always wise
[14:33] <rbscycle> been using the iBook G4 for a while.  Only problem is "YouTube" it needs an update (Flash) which isn't available fot PPC!  RATZ!
[14:39] <X3MBoy> h
[14:47] <TheFunkbomb> do people not read the topic?  Support in #ubuntu
[14:49] <mic> nick ottofit
[14:50] <rbscycle> My other PC just got upgraded to Kubun tu 9.10.  I guess my iBook G4 will have to wait till I burn a CD.
[14:51] <|Logitech|> zabac, serbia?
[14:51] <|Logitech|> :)
[14:51] <zabac> yes :)
[14:51] <|Logitech|> omg
[14:51] <|Logitech|> hvala bogu neki srbin
[14:51] <|Logitech|> :)
[14:52] <Matthieu> Jour.
[14:52] <fuller9box> testing testing
[14:52] <pleia2> hey folks, just so you know - this channel will be used for sessions, chat will take place in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[14:52] <rbscycle> I am in Newmarket Ontario Canada
[14:53] <zakaria> test
[14:53] <Bush> at what times are sessions held?
[14:53] <sebsebseb> hi
[14:53] <pleia2> Bush: they start in ~7 minutes
[14:55] <fuller9box> is this the right place to be in order to hear sessions?
[14:55] <sebsebseb> fuller9box: yes
[14:56] <fuller9box> Thank you, sebsebseb
[14:58] <X3MBoy> Is there a schedule for sessions???
[14:58] <Bush> one starts in about 2 minutes  X3MBoy
[14:58] <sebsebseb> X3MBoy: yes  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[14:58] <Bush> or so I was told :-D
[14:59] <fuller9box> X3Mboy: look here, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[14:59] <virusuy> hi everyone!
[15:00] <jcastro_> Just a few more minutes everyone!
[15:01] <jono> oi oi folks :)
[15:01] <fuller9box> can i record sessions that i cannot attend? If so how plz - thanks
[15:01] <sebsebseb> hi jono
[15:02] <jaytheblogger> Hi Jono
[15:02] <fuller9box> hi jono
[15:02] <virusuy> hi joaopinto
[15:02] <ejat> hi jono :)
[15:02] <virusuy> hi jono
[15:02] <sebsebseb> fuller9box: this room gets logged
[15:02] <jpds> fuller9box: Logs will be available at irclogs.ubuntu.com
[15:02] <airurando> hi jono
[15:02] <jono> lets give it a minute for late folks to arrive
[15:02] <jono> particularly with the time zone changes around the world
[15:02] <jcastro> Thanks everyone for showing up!
[15:02] <jcastro> already almost 200 people!
[15:03] <fuller9box> sebsebseb, jpds - thanks 4 that
[15:03] <sebsebseb> fuller9box: np
[15:03] <jono> good to see all these folks arriving :)
[15:03] <openweek9> hi
[15:03] <Bush> is there voice I am unaware of or is it all text? (I have never used IRC anything)
[15:03] <jono> Bush, it will be just text
[15:04] <Bush> Sweet and thank you
[15:04] <virusuy> Bush: if you want to ear jono's voice, go to twit.tv :P
[15:04] <jono> virusuy, lol
[15:04] <X3MBoy> Bush: depend of your client, but it's just text in escence...
[15:05] <openweek9> let's go people
[15:07] <jono> alright
[15:07] <jono> I think we are about ready
[15:08] <jono> so before we begin, lets see where everyone is from
[15:08] <jono> folks, let me know the town and country you are living in
[15:08] <Dig> [be]
[15:08] <virusuy> jono: I'm from Uruguay !!!
[15:08] <DilbertDave> Exmouth, UK
[15:08] <gabriele> [it]
[15:08] <dutchie> worcester, UK
[15:08] <openweek3_> Germany Hagen
[15:08] <Rohirrim> Mumbai, India
[15:08] <openweek8_> Vancouver BC
[15:08] <TheFunkbomb> CT, USA
[15:08] <openweek9__> Tienen, BE
[15:08] <zakaria> Jakarta, Indonesia
[15:08] <mauri1> Im from Uruguay
[15:08] <miquel_puig> Barcelona, Catalonia
[15:08] <SplitHorizon> Jacksonville, FL USA
[15:08] <openweek9> Aberdeen, UK
[15:08] <nameiner> Raleigh, NC
[15:08] <akgraner> Union Mills, NC
[15:08] <jedler> Leopoldshoehe, Germany
[15:08] <manouche> York, UK
[15:08] <DRice> jono, hanover, germany
[15:08] <tyche> Fountain Hills, Arizona, USA
[15:08] <syzygy> los angeles, ca, usa
[15:08] <der_karle> Germany, Paderborn
[15:08] <LeChacal> Flint, MI, USA
[15:08] <Milyardo> Flint, Michigan
[15:08] <ejat> Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
[15:08] <airurando> Athy, Co. Kildare, Ireland.
[15:08] <SjB> London, Ontario, CAN
[15:08] <Bush> Fairchild Airforce base Wa {US}
[15:08] <esomeprazole> Philippines
[15:08] <eny_> Tallinn, Estonia
[15:08] <ion> Tampere, Finland
[15:08] <Dineren> KS, USA
[15:08] <pyrosrock> Melbourne, Australia
[15:08] <jtniehof> Brookline, MA, US (going to be Boston in about an hour when I go to work)
[15:08] <sebsebseb> Near Bristol England
[15:08] <h00k> WI, USA
[15:09] <k0m0d0> Amsterdam, NL
[15:09] <chruck> Greenville SC
[15:09] <lifer999> Toronto, Canada
[15:09] <JonyBlaze> Norfolk,VA,USA
[15:09] <yos> Akko, Israel
[15:09] <ScottK> Ellicott City, MD, USA
[15:09] <dwiasharialdy> bandung, indonesia
[15:09] <Marcelo> Argentina
[15:09] <jono> awesome!
[15:09] <fuller9box> south london
[15:09] <jono> thanks for letting me know folks
[15:09] <LaserJock> Hanscom AFB, MA, USA
[15:09] <cstudent> Portsmouth, OH
[15:09] <rrnwexec> Vancouver BC, Canada.
[15:09] <IdleOne> Good morning and happy UOW
[15:09] <Loisha> switzerland
[15:09] <Mindfulgeek> Boston, MA
[15:09] <jono> I am from the Bay Area in California, and it is rather early here :)
[15:09] <prabodha1> Colombo, Sri Lanka
[15:10] <charlie-tca> Boise, Idaho, USA
[15:10] <tavish> delhi, india
[15:10] <jono> so, welcome to Ubuntu Open Week everyone!
[15:10] <Spajderix> Legnica, Poland
[15:10] <sebsebseb> IdleOne: Or afternoon or whatever, depending on time zone
[15:10] <openweek4__> Hi everyone
[15:10] <Dig> Antartica! It's cold
[15:10] <PabloRubianes> Montevideo, Uruguay
[15:10] <jono> for those of you who are new to Ubuntu Open Week, I am going to explain how the week works
[15:10] <IdleOne> sebsebseb: yup :)
[15:10]  * funkyPants sits on jono 
[15:10] <jono> I am going to discuss the concept of the week, where you can find out more and how you can get involved
[15:11] <snap-l> Macomb, MI
[15:11] <jono> Ubuntu Open Week was created a number of cycles back as a means in which we can introduce new members of our community to many of the skills of how you contribute
[15:12] <jono> the goal is simple: we provide a week of IRC tuition sessions, you good people join and learn the awesome content, and you can take these skills and contribute to Ubuntu
[15:12] <jono> we have an absolutely phenomenal community, which is underlined by a strong sense of family
[15:13] <jono> together we work on Ubuntu and what connects us together in many cases is a strong sense of the Ubuntu ethos - a deep running feeling of working on something that can benefit many people around the world
[15:14] <jono> we want to encourage as many people to join our family and indulge in that ethos, and Ubuntu Open Week was designed to make this possible
[15:14] <jono> now, a key attribute in our community is that we want to build a diverse community - you don't have to be a superstar programmer to get involved in Ubuntu
[15:14] <jono> we have many sub-communities, each of which cover a diverse range of skills
[15:15] <jono> these include documentation, development, translations, advocacy, testing, art and more
[15:15] <jono> together each of these sub-communities knits together to work on Ubuntu and the result is not only each release every six months, but also the incredible global community that we have come together to build
[15:16] <Arex> i was thinking about getting involved in packaging, but I only have a small bit of programming experience, what do you think?
[15:16] <canthus13> j/ignore #ubuntu-classroom +JOINS +PARTS +QUITS
[15:16] <jcastro> Arex, all questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please, we're in the middle of a session now
[15:16] <jono> for those of you who don't know me, my name is Jono Bacon, and I work at Canonical as the Ubuntu Community Manager, and my job is to help build a strong, enabled, productive and fun community like this
[15:16] <IdleOne> Arex: www.ubuntu.com and click on the get involved link for more info
[15:17] <jono> on my team I have dholbach: Daniel Holbach, jcastro: Jorge Castro, and dpm: David Planella - if you have any questions this week about anything Ubuntu related, I encourage you to contact them
[15:17] <jono> so, this is how it works
[15:18] <jono> if you take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek you will see a grid filled with discussion sessions
[15:18] <faberglas> j/ignore #ubuntu-classroom =JOINS =PARTS =QUITS
[15:18] <jono> each of those discussions sessions will take place in this channel
[15:18] <jono> one of our incredible community members will deliver the session over IRC, just like this
[15:18] <jono> they will type the information and you can read it
[15:18] <Loisha> j/ignore #ubuntu-classroom =JOINS =PARTS =QUITS
[15:19] <jono> now, you should also join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[15:19] <jono> you can join it by typing: /join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[15:19] <jono> in that channel you can discuss the session as it progresses
[15:19] <jono> folks, please *do not* discuss anything in here
[15:19] <jono> if you do, you very may well get kicked out by one of the ops
[15:20] <jono> keep *all* discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[15:20] <jono> I now expect a discussion to begin about my beard
[15:20] <ninadsp> /ignore #ubuntu-classroom +JOINS +PARTS +QUITS
[15:20] <jono> I am cool with that :)
[15:20] <jono> :P
[15:20] <jcastro> If it gets out of hand we'll +m the channel, but then it's less fun
[15:20] <jono> indeed
[15:20] <jcastro> so please remember to show courtesy to the current speaker
[15:20] <jono> with each session, attendees typically want to ask questions
[15:20] <jono> the way this works is simple
[15:21]  * FunnyBeard likes to sit on jono's face :p
[15:21] <jono> in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ask a question using 'QUESTION' at the beginning
[15:21] <jono> here is an example:
[15:21] <jono> QUESTION: Why are Iron Maiden the greatest band that has ever existed, ever?
[15:22] <jono> remember, you should keep *all* questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[15:22] <rbscycle> QUESTION: will there be a fix for Flash update for the PPC?
[15:22] <jono> as the session progresses, the session leader will pick out questions and answer them in here
[15:22] <jono> rbscycle, as I just said, don't ask questions in here, but in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[15:22] <jono> so an example answer:
[15:23] <BluesKaj> howdy
[15:23] <jono> (a real question, strangely:)
 QUESTION: Why is jono's beard so awesome
[15:23] <jono> no-one really knows, it has been spoken about by generations, yet the original awesomeness is unclear
[15:24] <jono> so thats it folks, simple as that
[15:24] <jono> we have a stack of sessions going on this week, and you can always see the schedule at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[15:24] <jono> you can also see logs of the sessions at irclogs.ubuntu.com
[15:25] <jono> so, we have a little bit of time available for questions (in #ubuntu-classroom-chat) - any questions I can answer?
[15:25] <openweek4__> QUESTION:How can i increase the video memory of ubuntu in virtual box
[15:26] <jcastro> (some other info real quick while people queue up questions)
 QUESTION: Are we limiting the scope of questions in this session?
[15:26] <jcastro> We have a brochure at the site now if you want to print a schedule
[15:26] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[15:26] <jono> all questions are welcome :)
[15:26] <jcastro> also, the calendar is broken so we're fixing that now
[15:26] <jono> jcastro, ahhh yes, thanks Jorge, I forgot to mention that
 QUESTION: how can small LOCOs overcome their smallness? Inter-distro collab? Wider-area aggregation? Other?
 QUESTION: Where do you see the biggest need for help is?
[15:27] <pompeyrodney> can anyone tell me if a non destructive format is posible please?
[15:27] <jono> akgraner, I will post them in here
[15:27] <jono> Mindfulgeek, we need help everywhere
[15:27] <jono> Mindfulgeek, but I am personally really keen to see us have more packagers involved in the project :)
[15:28]  * akgraner blushes.. turns help button down a notch or two and steps away from the caffeine
[15:28] <jono> Solarion, as for LoCo smallness, I don't think a LoCo needs to grow any bigger than it feels it needs to, but to grow it should focus on encouraging more local Ubuntu members to join, and use this membership to do good work, and then go on to work with other groups such as LUGs
[15:28] <sks> I HAVE INSTALLED UBUNTU 9.10 AND MY GRUB VERSION SEEM TO BE VERSION 1.97~beta4
[15:28] <sks> is this correct???
[15:28] <MooDoo> sks: probably the wrong place to ask right now :)
[15:28] <dholbach> sks: do you think you can ask that question in #ubuntu-classroom-chat?
 QUESTION: I'm not familiar with some of the words on the Schedule, could you define Byobu and WIOS ?
[15:29] <sks> im sorry
[15:29] <mhall119|work> might want to mute non-ops in this channel
[15:29] <jono> a quick google should help - byobu is a screen-like facility which is particularly useful for sysadmins
[15:29] <jcastro> jrwren_, also, there are descriptions in the PDF on the wiki page with more information on the session.
[15:29] <jono> and WIOS means Women In Open Source
[15:30] <sebsebseb> sks: yes that's  fine, also #ubuntu is for support
 QUESTION: is Canonical still losing money? if they are, do you have an estimate for when they'll break even?
[15:31] <jono> Canonical is still working towards profitability, and we are making great strides in that direction, as for timescales, I don't really have any informationI can provide
 QUESTION: What is the average airspeed velocity of a laden European swallow?
[15:31] <jono> erm, next question...
 jono: QUESTION : I'm interested in packaging a new flavor of linux for hardcore gamers and game developers.  as a newbie, what are my chances, and how should I go t about it?
[15:32] <jono> sounds awesome!
[15:32] <jono> there are lots of docs online about creating derivatives
[15:32] <jono> I would recommend you contact the Ubuntu Studio, Kubuntu or Xubuntu folks to ask them for some pointers
 QUESTION: I'm a small time sysadmin. Sometime I make a script collection to install and configure server. What is the best way to share those script with another Ubunteros? Is there a place for this?
[15:33] <jono> I am not aware of a standard place myself, but you may want to post to the ubuntu-server mailing list and ask :)
 QUESTION: what does packaging involve ?
[15:34] <jono> in a nutshell, packaging involves taking a piece of software that has been released in source code form, adding some additional files that specify how the package works and generating a package that works using the Debian packaging system
[15:36] <jono> the way most packagers get involved is by adding a package to the sponsorship queue - this is where you create a package and an existing ubuntu developers offers input and upload it on your behalf if it is of suitable quality
[15:36] <jono> if you want more help on this, join #ubuntu-motu on Freenode
[15:36] <jono> or talk to dholbach - he can help :)
 QUESTION: Is the IRC classroom used in other communities or is an Ubuntu community invention???
[15:37] <jono> we were the first to come up with an open week, and I havent seen many other communities do it :)
[15:37] <jono> sorry folks, I have a phone call, jcastro can you continue for a moment
[15:37] <jcastro> QUESTION: so does one have to be a coder to package ?
[15:37] <jcastro> Not really
[15:37] <jcastro> though for more advanced things it helps if you know how to apply and test patches
[15:38] <jcastro> I expect a review of your package won't go far if you don't know how to do things like that
[15:38] <jcastro> however there are other tasks in packaging you can do without that
[15:38] <jcastro> that's a great question for daniel and james during the thursday sessions on becoming an ubuntu developer
[15:39] <jcastro> QUESTION: Does Ubuntu have automated testing for QA? How about collaborations with vendors to ensure that the hardware works reliably across upgrades?
[15:39] <jcastro> I can't answer this, but there will be QA sessions throughout the week
[15:39] <jcastro> QUESTION: Why did we make the switch to empathy/telepathy so soon?
[15:39] <jcastro> there is a session on the entire telepathy stack on Friday
[15:40] <jcastro> but the short answe there is audio/video support, and upstream collaboration
[15:40] <jcastro> QUESTION: When will GNOME utility to configure the pop-up messages? Why in the 9.10 release messages that pop up one position lower than the message sound?
[15:40] <jcastro> as far as I know this is a design decision and the notifications are not designed to be configurable
[15:40] <jono> ok backl
[15:40] <jono> back
[15:41] <jono> just finding my place
[15:41] <jcastro> Ok, please reask your question in -chat if I missed it
[15:41] <jcastro> and remember to preface your question with QUESTION: so we don't miss it!
[15:42] <jono> ok
[15:42] <jono> sorry about that folks
[15:42] <jono> it appears some people don't know about Open Week
[15:42] <jono> :)
 QUESTION: How would you rate the health of the Ubuntu community as compared with other distro's?
[15:43] <jono> I think we are in really good shape - while there are always things we need to fix and improve, there is a great sense of morale in the community, we are seeing regular growth, and I think everyone is hugely proud of the Karmic release
 QUESTION: Is there a possablility of Samba being shipped in a functional state by default?  Packages installed, etc.
[15:44] <jono> not sure, that is a question for #ubuntu-server methinks
 QUESTION: the docs on creating derivative distros is outdates with the new GDM and XSplash, when will they be updated?
[15:44] <jono> I haven't reviewed the docs recently, so I am not sure
 QUESTION: Audio is clearly the worse area on Ubuntu 9.10, judging from a support request perspective, is there a plan on which the community can participate ? Bug reporting is clearly not sufficient
[15:46] <jono> I wouldn't necessarily say it is the worst area, but it could do with some love - if people want to help, the best thing to do is to understand our audio infrastructure and join us as a developer, helping to fix bugs and ensure that audio is rocking in ubuntu
[15:46] <jono> we are also keen to have bug reports on audio and have folks join our testing community to build stronger tests for our audio sub-system
 QUESTION: When 9.10.1 released?
[15:47] <jono> I am not seeing anything on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule yet, so I am not quite sure
[15:48] <jono> a date may not have been set yet
 QUESTION: what's your favorite Karmic feature?
[15:48] <jono> I love the fact that we ship Empathy and its audio/video/screensharing support
 QUESTION: What is the preferred programming language for developing applications for Ubuntu?
[15:51] <jono> for creating new apps, we often recommend Python - there is an awesome tool called Quickly which helps you get up and running quickly - it creates an example applications and eases how you write code, create user interfaces, commit to bazaar and generate packages
[15:51] <jono> see wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly for details
[15:51] <jono> I have written a few apps with it - it is awesome
 QUESTION: Do you recommend upgrading or a clean install?
[15:52] <jono> upgrade works great for me :)
 QUESTION: There is a sense among kubuntu users that not enough is been done to being it on per with ubuntu in area of features and stability what is your take on this.
[15:53] <jono> Kubuntu is an awesome community distribution - Canonical hires the always wonderful Riddell to work on Kubuntu, and much of the underlying foundation of Ubuntu also applies to Kubuntu too, but it sounds like there may be a resourcing issue in not having enough hands on deck in the community to work on Kubuntu
[15:53] <jono> I would recommend that the Kubuntu community works together to build outreach to get more developers involved if there is a feeling that there are not enough hands on deck
[15:54] <jono> maybe we should have a Kubuntu Developer Week?
[15:54] <jono> our developer weekend
[15:54] <jono> with IRC sessions about packaging KDE for Kubuntu?
 QUESTION: jono, how are the book sales going?  Is your publisher still happy with making it available for download?
[15:55] <jono> (mhall119|work is referring to my recent book on building community called The Art of Community which is available to buy but also available for free download at http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/)
[15:56] <jono> the book seems to be doing well, I am just really happy with the ratings on amazon.com - I am not sure about book sales globally, but it seems to be doing well, and O'Reilly are happy that it is available to download - in fact, book sales went *up* when I made it available for download :-)
 QUESTION: How will the "ship-it" program change?
[15:56] <jono> see http://blog.canonical.com/?p=264 for details
[15:57] <jono> ok folks, one more
 QUESTION:Why is it that KDE does not get as much attention as GNOME does,for eg : www.ubuntu.com looks really professional,while www.kubuntu.org looks haphazard
[15:57] <jono> GNOME is the chosen desktop for Ubuntu, and KDE is the chosen desktop for Kubuntu
[15:58] <jono> Ubuntu is the primary distribution that Canonical funds, and hence ubuntu.com includes much of the information there - Kubuntu is an awesome community developed distribution
[15:58] <jono> I think kubuntu.org looks awesome, and the Kubuntu community have done a wonderful job producing such a fantastic distro and the website and brand around it
[15:59] <jono> if you feel it could improved, feel free to get in touch with Riddell and I am sure he would welcome the help :-)
[15:59] <jono> ok folks, my time is up, thanks so much for coming to this opening session and I look forward to the rest of the week!
[15:59] <jono> have a great week!
[15:59] <jcastro> ok thanks jono
[15:59] <jcastro> up next is going to be MagicFab
[16:00] <jcastro> MagicFab, introduce yourself and take it away!
[16:00] <MagicFab> Hi all!
[16:01] <MagicFab> Sorry I am a bit late. That's my trademark :)
[16:01] <jcastro> you're actually 2 minutes early!
[16:01] <MagicFab> I suppose questions will be filteredthrough -chat as last time ?
[16:01] <jcastro> yep
[16:01] <jcastro> just paste them in here and answer
[16:02] <MagicFab> k
[16:02] <MagicFab> So, hi again, thanks to all for showing up - lots of people! Fabian Rodriguez here. I work at Canonical's Global Support Services center in Montreal, Canada as a senior support analyst and technical trainer for support & server stuff since November 2006 - so 3 years now!. I am mostly interested in free technologies advocacy (including formats, content, licencing) & training for new users, with an emphasis on security.
[16:03] <MagicFab> You can read more about me here:
[16:03] <MagicFab> http://launchpad.net/~magicfab and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabianRodriguez
[16:03] <MagicFab> of course I love sharing so I also have these for you all:
[16:03] <MagicFab> http://identi.ca/magicfab
[16:03] <MagicFab> http://delicious.com/magicfab
[16:04] <MagicFab> I hope I get some very hard questions today :)
[16:04] <MagicFab> jcastro, is anyone pasting the questions or should I ?
[16:04] <jcastro> you should. :D
[16:05] <MagicFab> I am very interested in the cultural notion that "the computer guy" is always sucked into supporting family & friends for free, with high expectations. I want to beat that and help you convince people that they can handle Ubuntu by themselves. Heck, my parents do!
[16:05] <MagicFab> ok tx
[16:05] <MagicFab> Empower your new Ubuntu converts or prospects to become autonomous and be part of the community (or not!) with some technical support power tricks and key, chosen URLs that will help quickly understand Ubuntu and free software.
[16:05] <MagicFab> Empower your new Ubuntu converts or prospects to become autonomous and be part of the community (or not!) with some technical support power tricks and key, chosen URLs that will help quickly understand Ubuntu and free software.
[16:06] <MagicFab> sorry ;)
[16:06] <MagicFab> With that in mmind, I'll take quesitons and try to show some of my stuff along the way.
[16:06]  * MagicFab checks questions
[16:07] <MagicFab> Question : We heard that Teacher (Guru) arrives, when the Student (neighbour) is ready (or want it)
[16:08] <MagicFab> scratch that, not sure what the question is.
[16:08] <MagicFab> next...
[16:08] <MagicFab> QUESTION: is there value in stopping being the Windows go-to guy?
[16:09] <MagicFab> So yes, the value is in all the time you gain :) Go outside, meet other people..
 QUESTION: My father showed some interrest in linux just recently. I have been trying to decide if I should install a dual boot system for him or just go with Ubuntu and let him dive in head first. what do you think would be best?
[16:09] <MagicFab> I remember being the Windows power user... it wears you a lot. It's much more fullfiling to help people help themselves.
[16:09] <MagicFab> akgraner, tx.
[16:10] <MagicFab> IdleOne, I'd say go slowly. Dual boot, and default to Windows, leaving 20 seconds to choose in GRUB. That way it's there, available, and those 20 seconds beg the question: "why am I using Windows today? Should I ? ".
[16:10] <MagicFab> When advocating Ubuntu or *any* free software, you'll notice it's much easier to **listen** and answers questions than to **propose** and impose information.
[16:10] <MagicFab> Let him choose!
[16:10] <MagicFab> Next ?
 QUESTION: How can you convince users to use OpenOffice, and not M$ Office 2007 / or to use pidgin/empathy instead of Windows Live Messenger etc.?
[16:12] <MagicFab> You don't convince them. You use it everyday. You share your experience and good things / gains in time etc in your Facebook/ Twitter/Identica...
[16:12] <MagicFab> Lead by example.
[16:12] <MagicFab> This is similar to:
[16:12] <MagicFab> How do you recommend overcoming the "Oh, it's not Windows" mentality?
[16:12] <MagicFab> You don't! Don't be "the annoying Ubuntu guy/girl".
[16:13] <MagicFab> Just DO IT. And every now and then, people will notice and ask questions by themselves.
[16:13] <MagicFab> Remember, when someone asks you "what did you do this weekend" you can also say "well, I spent time with family, not rebuilding my Windows setup".
[16:13] <MagicFab> build on your positive experiences, and share that as much as you can.
[16:14] <MagicFab> I use Facebook *A lot* for that.
[16:14] <MagicFab> :)
[16:14] <MagicFab> next ?
 QUESTION: How would you counter the tendency of friends/neighbours to compare Ubuntu to Windows?
[16:15] <MagicFab> That's a good question. You can't compare it. Windows is an OS, period. Ubuntu is a whole ecosystem of things: a product, but also a project AND a huge community.
[16:15] <MagicFab> PLUS thousands of free apps. ALL FREE. You can build your home server or your enterprise infrastrutcure from ground up for $0000
[16:15] <MagicFab> How can you compare that ? you can't. But if someone insists, I would always provide "homwork".
[16:16] <MagicFab> Here's this simple rule: don't put the weight on you to explain things.
[16:16] <MagicFab> Don't underestimate people's ability to understand. Show them media coverage, informative sites.
[16:16] <MagicFab> One that I love is http://getgnulinux.org ! That's my #1 advocacy tool.
[16:17] <MagicFab> I guess it's easier to ask people what they need, and then "become availabel" but
[16:17] <MagicFab> I MUST INSIST!!! Don't become the annoying Ubuntu person.
[16:17] <MagicFab> Let them come to you.
[16:17] <MagicFab> next ?
 QUESTION: When introducing a user to Ubuntu, how do you overcome the stigma associated with the word "Free".
[16:18] <MagicFab> What stigma ? Everyone loves free. I actually seldom mention the Freedom component of Ubuntu. To me it's a natural thing that enables Ubuntu and other free software.
[16:19] <MagicFab> In fact people will ask "how is all of this possible!!" (read above "how can you compare this") and then you can say "because many people value Freedom".
[16:19] <MagicFab> I avoid the political/ philosophical discussion, because, well, the link I gave above provide plenty of that.
[16:20] <MagicFab> ** FOCUS ** on becoming avaiulable to refer to other resources. For example the LoCo Team in your area...
[16:20] <MagicFab> It's very tempting to become the Ubuntu Star of your city/place/school/workplace.. :)
[16:20] <MagicFab> But I assure you, that only scales so much :D
[16:21] <MagicFab> I read on the chat channel: if anyone so much as starts arguing "this can't be, how do you make money" and you don't know the answer... politely dismiss it, "I don't know! but it wokrs for me sinc...."
[16:21] <MagicFab> that;'s a valid answer too.
[16:22] <MagicFab> And honestly I focus on people that are really interested.
[16:22] <MagicFab> I'll tell you this anecdote. I worked at a BIG retailer in a calling center. We had 3 minutes to close a phone sale. Then the system hung up and passed the next call.
[16:23] <MagicFab> If anyones' not receptive to Free software/Ubuntu in a few minutes, don't worry. Plenty are and waiting for your input.
[16:23] <MagicFab> And in fact people become more curious or inquisitive when you *listen* instead of *talking* all the time.
[16:24] <MagicFab> I have to give credit to my wife for that simple for HUGE tip which appolies to many other things in life :D
[16:25] <MagicFab> A few choise links will help anyone advoctaing Ubuntu. But I am surprised almost no one of the advocates I know refer to official documentation or build on it.
[16:26] <MagicFab> https://help.ubuntu.com/ comes to mind! If you haven't looked at it, you should.
 QUESTION: You convince a non-technical friend to install Ubuntu and suspend and wifi don't work. Where do we go from here?  Can we still be friends?
[16:27] <MagicFab> dscassel, you NEVER convince anyone of anything. They BEG you to do it.
[16:27] <MagicFab> That being said, you NEVER install Ubuntu without checking with a Live CD first. Ever.
[16:28] <MagicFab> Hardware is unsupported ? Tough luck. Next "customer' !
 QUESTION: Do you sense that a significant part of the Ubuntu community is still trying to "sell fish" rather that "teaching people how to fish" when it comes to support?
[16:28] <MagicFab> You need to serialize your advocacy. Focus, focus, focus. Build your nieghbor's knowledge, train other "Gurus".
[16:28] <MagicFab> What is a Guru ?  akgraner and others loved this phrase I often use: "Everyone's someone else's guru"
[16:29] <MagicFab> Last week I gave this notion some thought
[16:29] <MagicFab> And many people complained at the Release party that it was the only time we met face to fcae.. .every 6 months!!!
[16:29] <MagicFab> So I started the Ubuntu Hour: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
[16:30] <MagicFab> Sometimes we want to seek helping people that know nothing about Ubuntu when the reality is other that know just a bit more than nothing are our neighbors and can't go to the next step!
[16:30] <MagicFab> To you I say: start some simple, local. Heck, it's even eco=friendly! Make yourself available, but set limits.
[16:31] <MagicFab> Give homework, and point to official docs & resources., build on them. See the pattern ?
[16:31] <akgraner>  <openweek8_> Question: when I do an install for a new user a couple of the first questions are regarding audio and video messaging and iPods. While they do sort of work in Ubuntu, when will they really compete with Windows. That is where we lose a lot of newbies.
[16:31] <MagicFab> hRedBeard asks:  QUESTION: Speaking of Support, again, in my experences, new users get very uneasy about having no support line to call.  Yes, there's free support, but typically they're looking for "who can I call for free because I bought the software" sort of support.  Providing neighborly support is fine, but many people seem to want someone at 3AM when something happens.  How do you recommend describing support options?
[16:31] <MagicFab> ok, in order.
[16:32] <MagicFab> Audio & video messaging: We're almost there, check Piding &*Empathy if youcare for freedom. If you don't, I hear Skype just works.
[16:33] <MagicFab> You care so much about Ipods you won't use Ubuntu ? Sorry, I've personally have given up on anyone that has any attachment to Apple products.
[16:33] <MagicFab> If that sound harsh, well, I am not sorry. *Choose your battles*
[16:33] <MagicFab> Again, there's people out there without Ipods, can you believe that ? And their life is just fine! I focus on those.
[16:34] <MagicFab> hRedBeard asked:  QUESTION: Speaking of Support, again, in my experences, new users get very uneasy about having no support line to call.  Yes, there's free support, but typically they're looking for "who can I call for free because I bought the software" sort of support.  Providing neighborly support is fine, but many people seem to want someone at 3AM when something happens.  How do you recommend describing support options?
[16:34] <MagicFab> Commercial support is UNLIMITED and starts very cheap!!! Have you seen shop.canonical.com lately ?
[16:34] <MagicFab> Here: http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=31_32
[16:34] <MagicFab> Prices ?
[16:35] <MagicFab> Starting at 54.99 $ /yr, unlimited... If that's not affordable, I don't know what is.
[16:36] <MagicFab> Remember, you DONT NEED TO PAY to use Ubuntu at any time or at any level.
[16:36] <akgraner> Solarion> QUESTION: how do you *stop* being "The annoying linux zealot"?
[16:36] <MagicFab> 3AM means "24x7" support.
[16:36] <MagicFab> That price is different! And believe me, when people notice the differene most will prefer waiting.
[16:37] <MagicFab> Solarion, that's very easy. You literally *shut up*  when people talk about LInux / ubuntu etc.
[16:37] <MagicFab> Solarion, yes, even at BestBuy, RadioShack, etc. You DONT focus on those. Remember, you make yourself aailable.
[16:38] <MagicFab> If you really, really can't shut up you can say something like "hey did you know there's an Ubuntu user group here ? if you have any questions I can help *when I am not busy* ".. etc.
[16:38] <MagicFab> set yourself to help people using 2 HARD, STRICT RULES:
[16:38] <MagicFab> 1) You will only help for free if they ask in public (forums, chat, etc) so others can benefit
[16:38] <MagicFab> 2) You will only do so when you can
[16:39] <MagicFab> *NEVER* paint yourself in that "unlimited, 24x7, I-will-do-your-laundry-if-you-use-Ubuntu".
[16:39] <MagicFab> Otherwise just as the "free stigma"... they will probably just think  you need friends or something. I 've been told that :)
[16:39] <akgraner>  <hRedBeard> QUESTION: How do you explain the idea behind FOSS/Ubuntu/GPL without sounding like a "free for all hippie" <----I've been called that, believe it or not :]
[16:40] <MagicFab> hRedBeard, again, YOU DON'T! just refer to public websites. Wikipedia helps a lot believe it or not.
[16:40] <MagicFab> You can for exmaple mention  Google and yahoo use Linux in all their infrastructure.
[16:41] <MagicFab> Surely they built a valid business on it, iddn't they ? Yes, there are hippies in every revolution. I believe this is one. But if someons doesn't, I can't care less. I go back to my previously mentioned rule. NEEEEEEEEEXT ! And others will be more interested in chatting about that.
[16:41] <MagicFab> pmatulis, asks: QUESTION: On virtualization.  What would you recommend to a user who still needs Windows around?  VMWare, Virtualbox, KVM, or some other?  I hear KVM is pretty hot.
[16:42] <MagicFab> pmatulis, 100% Virtual Box.
[16:43] <akgraner>  QUESTION:  How do you make it clear to someone that  Ubuntu isn't only an operating system,  it's a community, and for that matter explain to them about software freedoms and why it matters.  Yes someone who thinks an OS isn't special at all,  and that it's for running the hardware and software and that's it.
[16:43] <MagicFab> KVM is cool but is for a different audience. If you want to klnow why, see help.ubuntu.com, search for "VortualBox" and "KVM" separately. If you don't find the answer there, come back to me at http://webchat.freenode.net/?randomnick=1&channels=ubuntu-qc&prompt=1 I am on all weekedays.
[16:44] <MagicFab> See ? I just did it!! Now pmatulis will probably search, while remaining my friend. Or he will actually insist and I will answer right away. But I gave him my opinion without patronizing "ohhhhhhh I know a lot!!! Let me set a weekend and we can taaaaaaalk!!!"
[16:44] <MagicFab> oh and BTW my answer was "VirtualBox - if you need USB virtualization, use the non-free edition" :)
[16:45] <MagicFab> I am surprised I see many non-technical questions. So I feel this is now a social, rather than technical problem (getting someone into Ubuntu) :)
[16:46] <MagicFab> One important thing, many new users or future possible users are intimidated by the "community"
[16:46] <MagicFab> they see it as some private club. It's easy to forget it's not when you've been here for some time!!
[16:47] <MagicFab> Helpful phrases like "you know, there is a strong worldwide community of Ubuntu users. We all go by the CoC...". Know you local team website.
[16:47] <MagicFab> That helps.
[16:47] <MagicFab> That leads to introducing the Local Community teams. When someone calls Canonical and they speak another language, for example, most of the time they can handle very basic English. Enough to show them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
[16:47] <MagicFab> IN any other business I'd probably get fired!!
[16:49] <MagicFab> I see a lot of "how do I convince" ? ... I forgot to tell... It depends on everyone. This is very personal, know what your story is. I explain why it's better for me and my wife who is a 1stgrade t4eacher. How I used to be a Windows power user. How I totally changed my career at age 33 and now this is where I am at.
[16:49] <MagicFab> If you have a similar story, share that! People love stories.
[16:49] <MagicFab> But leave the "you should install it" alone :)
 QUESTION: how do you suggest we impart knowledge into those comming from a system such as windows where they know the basics of staying safe there e.g. don't click on files with two file extensions, for ubuntu not running scripts any old person's posted as root ?
[16:52] <MagicFab> ubunfan, in what context ? I wouldn't know. My context is Quebec francophone, I come from Colombia, speak 3 languages and most my friends and family share my values.
[16:52] <MagicFab> I can scare the h* out of them with security stuff. Bottom line, no one can protect you from yourself, so there'not much to teach.
 MagicFab: as in scripts containg commands to remove / and such how do you provent users from running them
[16:53] <MagicFab> The point I am making is, if you share values with people you are talking to, that discussion shouldn't happen. If you need to have that discussion, again, either say "I don't know" and document / research and come back or point to existing docs and articles.
[16:54] <MagicFab> But most of all, ask to get specific, precise questions. Otherwise it becomes FUD, or it's a troll, in my opinion.
 Question: You mention LoCos a lot, but some LoCos are more useful than others.  I don't want to put down the ubuntu-ca folks, but there's not a lot of LoCo presence in Southern Ontario.  How can we build that community?
[16:55] <MagicFab> ubunfan, you can't prevent people from doing that. If you have people like that around you, I am sorry but I'd let them go. They are  not stupid! They will eventually find out about other options. And grow into them. and be more aware in secuirty... maybe start using Firefox in Windows and who knows, in a few months something else
[16:55] <MagicFab> Flashblock/Noscript extensions come to mind but honestly there's not much you can do for those serial-clickers.
[16:56] <MagicFab> dscassel, start small. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour comes to mind. I mean REALLY small.
[16:56] <MagicFab> get together with ONE person, and advertise that./
[16:56] <MagicFab> Nothing stops you from having several locos in one place.
[16:57] <MagicFab> we're almost out of time but I'll take some older questions:
 QUESTION: Do you sense that a significant part of the Ubuntu community is still trying to "sell fish" rather that "teaching people how to fish" when it comes to support?
[16:57] <MagicFab> rrittenhouse, yes, definitely. That's a known bad habit, perhaps the thoughest to break.
 QUESTION:   How do you get someone to use  the  Ubuntu install that is available to them instead of Windows on the same computer,  when  they think OS's aren't special and for just running hardware and software,  and probably won't even read about Ubuntu even if the article is from a news source that they like such as the BBC.
[16:59] <MagicFab> I dont'say much to help others ! I ask them to join us on IRC, on the website. I remain available. I explain I don't like the "anti-Microsoft" tone out there, I remain ethical. I go by the CoC  (really !) - but I ask them to read a bit and *THEN* come back to me! They feel like I trust them to understand. And to my amazement, they do!
[16:59] <MagicFab> sebsebseb, again, wrong audience. I'd say next! Choose your battles. I've seen people like that I literally vut any ties with and few months later they come back to me... don't waste your time!
[17:00] <MagicFab> And the Ubuntu install is like step #20 in Ubuntu advocacy! Live CD is way before that and also making sure all hardware works..
[17:00] <MagicFab> specially that expensive multifunction printer!!!
[17:00] <jcastro> ok time!
[17:00] <akgraner> Alrighty time for next Session...:-)
[17:00] <MagicFab> They will hate you if I give you the magical recipe and their system then doesn't work :)
[17:01] <MagicFab> Thanks to all who put up with this.
[17:01] <jcastro> tyche, ok, introduce yourself, your session, and take it away!
[17:01] <MagicFab> If anyone wants to follow up... join me on #ubuntu-qc all weekdays day time EST :)
[17:01] <tyche> Hi
[17:01] <tyche> My name is Craig Eddy - known as Tyche in IRC and in the Ubuntu community - and I am an editor for the UWN.  And in the past few weeks people have asked me various questions about the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter.
[17:02] <tyche> Some of them have been of the nature of, "I told you about it in channel, why can't you put it in the UWN?"
[17:02] <tyche> Others have been, "can I contribute to the UWN?"  And there have been others.
[17:02] <tyche> I'd like to address some of the questions by explaining the fondation of the Newsletter, and how it gets put together.  Along the way I'll be describing some of what actually goes on in the process.
[17:02] <tyche> As I go through this presentation questions may arise.  Please, open a text editor (not a word processor) and type your questions in there.  Preceed your question with the word QUESTION to gain a moderator's attention.  At the end of the presentations, you can then copy them into #ubuntu-classroom-chat, and I'll do my best to answer them.
[17:03] <tyche> This presentation will be repeated on my blog, http://tycheent.wordpress.com/, which is also attached to the Planet Ubuntu.  So if I couldn't get to your answer in channel feel free to comment there and I'll try to answer it.
[17:03] <tyche> The UWN is, and has been from the beginning, a way of letting the community know what's going on.  Sometimes within the community as a whole.  Sometimes as noting what's being said about Ubuntu from the outside.
[17:03] <tyche> The first issue of the UWN came out in June of 2006, and a basic structure to the Newsletter.  General Community News, a section called "Ubuntu" that gave release information, and an In The Press section.
[17:03] <tyche> But, along with that structure were the beginnings of how to go about putting the Newsletter together.  And thus was born journalism in an on-line Newsletter.
[17:04] <tyche> Structure is important.  And between Issue #1 and Issue #166 the structure has changed (hopefully for the better) many times.
[17:04] <tyche> Each change in the structure involved "executive decisions", and discussion with others about whether they were worthwhile and how to go about adding them.
[17:04] <tyche> Now, we have the General Community News, that has incorporated the Ubuntu section.  The Ubuntu Stats, that give figures on Bugs, Translations and, recently added, Ubuntu Brainstorm Top 5 for the week.
[17:05] <tyche> We also have LoCo News, that celebrates upcoming and just past events.  Also Launchpad News that tells of changes to our all important Launchpad server and sites.
[17:05] <tyche> We have the Ubuntu Forms News that adds information on Tutorials and other ongoing information.  We have The Planet that lets people know what other things of interest are happening with individuals.
[17:05] <tyche> In The Press is still there, but the format has changed over time to provide a summary or "teaser" to the article to which it is linked.
[17:06] <tyche> In The Blogosphere outlines what other individual's opinions of Ubuntu are.  And In Other News covers information that doesn't fit the preceeding two categories.
[17:06] <tyche> We also have a Meeting Summaries section that outlines what has happened in groups in the past month.  Information taken from that submitted by the various Teams and Councils.
[17:06] <tyche> And then, there's the two that are the most tedious to do:  Upcoming Meetings and Events, and Updates and Security.  The first gives the information on meetings in the #ubuntu-meetings channel on irc.freenode.net.  The second lists all the posted updates - both those that are security updates and those that are applied to individual releases.
[17:06] <tyche> Also recently added is the Glossary of Terms where some of thos nasty little acronyms that the average person might not know are defined.
[17:07] <tyche> Also added to the structure of the UWN are the Credits, so you know who to blame for what's in any particular issue.  Hee hee.
[17:07] <tyche> Structure is all very well.  But just like having a bunch of boards organized into a house doesn't make it a lived-in home, so this structure needs something else to actually BE the UWN.
[17:07] <tyche> It's traditionally been the job of the newest recruit to visit the many links for the Security and Updates section and do the dull, tedious work of gathering that information.  And when a Beta is released, that can be a daunting task.  As an example, when Karmic Koala Beta was released there were 244 updates between the release date and the date of the UWN.
[17:08] <tyche> Fortunately, that task, that used to be done manually, has now been automated with a script (actually a series of scripts, one for each sub-section of the Security and Updates section.
[17:08] <tyche> Likewise, the Upcoming Meetings section, originally gathered from a calendar within the Fridge, was much more difficult to deal with than its more recent Google calendar, both in gathering information and in posting it.
[17:08] <tyche> With the original calendar, the "repeating events" had to be manually posted to the Fridge.  With the Google calendar, those repeating events are taken care of with one posting.  Also, there are shortcuts that can be put in so that half the information can just be copied and pasted from the calendar to the UWN.
[17:09] <tyche> Other sections, like the Forums News and the Brainstorm Stats are entered directly by specialized contributors (and we, who constitute the core group in the UWN REALLY appreciate their efforts and help).
[17:09] <tyche> One of our editors, and our Chief Editor, have RSS feeds from various sources from which the links for In The Press, In The Blogosphere and In Other News are gathered.  Likewise, General Community News, LoCo News, Launchpad News, and The Planet are gathered from links within the Ubuntu community.
[17:10] <tyche> And now the killer piece of information that causes the chaos of creating the UWN.  ALL of that is left as long as possible to make the information we put in the UWN as up-to-date as possible.
[17:10] <tyche> When one has three to six people all trying to edit one page at the same time things get interesting.  In channel, one can see people saying things like, "Well, when SOMEONE finally lets me in, I'll dump my section in.  Hee hee"
[17:10] <tyche> Good natured teasing, like that, helps us keep sane.  Some elements can be put in early, like the Forums (I've yet to tangle with Isabelle Duchatelle as she does her part), and the Security and Updates (Liraz Siri, partly due to the difference in time zones, always manages to get his section in before the chaos starts).
[17:11] <tyche> But that still leaves a bunch of sections to go in, all at the same time.  The way we manage to do it is to compose our sections in text files (with all the wiki formatting) so that all we have to do is cut and paste to actually dump it in the page.
[17:11] <tyche> A template was developed, to keep everyone on the "same page" for formatting.  That way, we can reduce the number of camelcases (wiki hot links, like LoCo) that we have to go and change in the actual wiki page.
[17:11] <tyche> But that still leaves us with situations where 2 or 3 people are trying to edit the page at the same time (thank goodness for locks).  And, on top of that, we're correcting eachother's spelling and grammer, and making decisions on whether or not to dump a particular link.
[17:12] <tyche> If we were trying to edit directly into the page, rather than the cut-and-paste method we use, the chaos would be worse.  As it is, the chatter in channel can get "interesting".  And all this while trying to beat a deadline to get the issue out.
[17:12] <tyche> In addition, the chaos of the channel serves another two purposes.  The humor we insert helps to relieve the tensions of trying to beat the deadline.  And the somewhat social aspect of the channel allows us to interact, perhaps to change a style or correct a formatting "on-the-fly".
[17:12] <tyche> But even more important, it allows us to proof-read eachother's work to make the issue as good as we can get it.  Mistakes DO get through, but we honestly try to keep them to a minimum.
[17:13] <tyche> So, for 2 or 3 hours on a Sunday, the editors and contributors go through organized chaos to put something out that will inform and entertain you readers.
[17:13] <tyche> Contributions are essential to the UWN.  Without them the issues would be bland rehashing of information that's already available to the community.
[17:13] <tyche> New contributions - those outside our normal sources for information - need to follow the same structure that is set up for all the rest of the summaries.  There has to be a link that we can point to, so that readers can find out more information or even check to see if we actually summarized it properly.
[17:13] <tyche> This reliance on hard links to put in each issue is important to us, as it keeps us honest.  You may notice that we don't editorialize in the UWN.  We're trying very hard to NOT offer our opinion, but just state the facts as we find them.  This is the essence of journalism as it pertains to the UWN, and the one place where YOU can help us.
[17:14] <tyche> If you have information that you want to share with the community, GREAT!  But . . . we need it to be YOUR information, not our "opinion" of what you may have said in channel or in an email.  We need that hard link to point to.  This seems to be the hardest thing for me to get people to understand about the UWN.
[17:14] <tyche> Also, it helps if the information you supply, on a blog link or where ever, gives us enough information so that we CAN summarize it in an intelligent fashion.  Remember, we can't know all the information YOU know about a subject.  If you like, you can run your ideas by me, and I'll happily help you build something that will be interesting and informative, from which we can draw our summary.
[17:14] <tyche> Is it a new program?  What does it do?  How does it differ from other, similar programs?
[17:15] <tyche> Is it an event?  Where will it be held?  What is the focus of the event?  What is the target audience?  Who is helping out with the event?  What, if any, companies or organizations are involved?
[17:15] <tyche> One other point:  there is a difference between named contributors (people named in the Credits section) and editors of the UWN.  It's not a prestige thing, believe it or not.  It's based on ability.  New "named" contributors are given a specific task to complete.  They may also do some proofing, but primarily they are set to complete one particular task at a time.
[17:15] <tyche> As they grow into working on the UWN, those tasks change to more complex tasks until they are able to handle anything that the UWN may throw at them.  At that point, they become editors.  Editors are the "clean-up hitters", the ones fill in for others that happen to be unavailable in any particular week.
[17:16] <tyche> They also have more say in the editing of the UWN, based on their experience, and their viewpoint is valuable.  We encourage people to work their way through the tasks, so they CAN help out.  The more eyes and hands we have, the better the UWN runs, and the more fun with it we can have.
[17:16] <tyche> Despite all that I've just told you, the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter isn't OUR newsletter.  It's YOUR'S.  The information that makes up the bulk of the newsletter comes from  you.  Every entry in the Upcoming Meetings and Events is something that YOU have added to the Fridge calendar.  All the Meeting Summaries, all the Security and Updates, and much more, come from YOU.
[17:16] <tyche> Our purpose is to document them in a way that reaches beyond the range of your particular circles of influence.  Our purpose is to celebrate the advances you make, the achievements you accomplish, and yes even the setbacks you experience.  And for that we need your help.
[17:17] <tyche> There are procedures you can follow . . . oh, nothing difficult . . . that will make it easier for us and better for you.  Little things, like providing a link for the agenda of your meetings to the Fridge calendar, or making sure that security updates and release updates are documented where they need to be.
[17:17] <tyche> Another way you can help is to make sure you write up whatever events, new programs, or etcetera in a blog article or some format that we can link to.  This way, what's reported is what YOU want known, and not some vague opinion.  We who edit the UWN have had to scramble on a few occasions to get such links, and people haven't understood why.  The "why" is simple.  It keeps US honest in our reporting, and presents the facts that YOU want
[17:17] <tyche> reported.
[17:18] <tyche> Casual, "one-off" contributions are always welcome.  You can let us know in the #ubuntu-news channel or in an email to the list - ubuntu-news-team@lists.ubuntu.com or mailto:ubuntu-news@lists.ubuntu.com .  Be sure to include a link to where the information actually is, so we can add it to the UWN.  By the way, feedback about the UWN can also be addressed through the same means.  We like constructive criticism (and, of course, we ALWAYS like to
[17:18] <tyche> hear compliments.  Hee hee).
[17:18] <tyche> Right now, we have a pretty good balance of people helping put the UWN together.  However, there are times when we do need more help.  If you are interested in being listed as a contributor (one that does the nuts and bolts, tedious and hectic, work of putting the UWN together, contact us in the #ubuntu-news channel.  We'll gladly talk to you about it.
[17:19] <tyche> Now that I've blathered on for what seems like forever, here's your chance to ask questions that I may not have covered in the presentation.
 [QUESTION]: on what basis do you decide ubuntu news/blogs is relevant ?
[17:19] <tyche> And I'd like to thank Amber (akgraner) in advance for fielding questions for me.
[17:20] <tyche> gotunandan: Mostly, we look to see if it's Ubuntu related, and provides INFORMATION.  Information may be positive or negative, as long as it's not just "selling" or FUD.
[17:20] <tyche> Next?
 [QUESTION]: Does the newsletter have a mailing list or is it just RSS feed?
[17:22] <tyche> Rohirrim: That's a good question for which I don't have a good answer.  I BELIEVE it is set up on a mailing list.  I'm going to suggest that you ask that question in the -news channel.
[17:22] <tyche> Next?
 [QUESTION]: how about translations into other languages?
[17:23] <tyche> TeslaUa: We're always looking for people or groups to translate the newsletter.  We have some who do and/or take information from the newsletter to add to their own.  But the core group doesn't have any translators in it.
[17:24] <tyche> Next?
 [QUESTION]: Have you considered asking people to write a piece for you to link to? If you want to know about a certain issue I'm sure some people would knock up a reasonable piece for you.
[17:24] <tyche> We're getting some GOOD questions, here.  I'm sure my splurb only touched on the highlights.
[17:26] <tyche> openweek0: We've had people come to us and say "hey, how about . . ." then worked with them to develop a web page we could link to, so we could add their article to the UWN.  There have also been times when we've requested information from people.  But, I repeat, we rely on hard links - something someone else has  written up, not our opinion.
[17:27] <tyche> Next?
 [Question]: i missed the beginning of the session, is there a specific place, irc channel, mailing list where one can submit info to be included in UWN
[17:29] <tyche> gotunandan: I'm not ignoring you.  I'm having to go back through my splurb to find the actual links that I put up.  Just a sec.
[17:31] <tyche> gotunandan: Tell you what, this entire presentation (possibly minus the questions) will be on my blog site, and the information will be in there.  So as not to hold things up, I'll refer you to http://tycheent.wordpress.com/
[17:31] <tyche> It'll be on there a little after this session ends.
[17:31] <tyche> Next
 [QUESTION]: i would like to know how non-english versions of UWN are made and how to contribute. thanks.
[17:33] <tyche> TeslaUa: Non-English versions are done by the translators.  Some of them simply take portions of the UWN and add them to their own newsletter, and you'd have to ask them how to contribute to those.  Others translate the whole thing (a daunting task, from my opinion), in which case the contribution would have to be in the UWN, itself
[17:33] <tyche> Next?
[17:34] <akgraner> [QUESTION] applications will need to be added in order to to use the scripts?  where are they found? and how much technical experience does one need?
[17:34] <tyche> BTW, when I post the splurb to the website, I'll try to do a better job of spell checking.  :-)
[17:35] <tyche> I'm not sure I understand the question about adding applications in order to use the scripts.  If you mean the ones we use for Security and Updates, it's BeautifulSoup - a python module - and is in the repos.
[17:35] <tyche> Next?
[17:38] <akgraner> tyche  - speaking from the beginner point of view with UWN  - you and johnc4510 do an amazing job of mentoring
[17:38] <tyche> BeautifulSoup is a module that is needed to use the Security and Updates scripts.  Since I didn't create the python scripts we use, I can't really tell you what it does.  The scripts were created by a previous Chief Editor (Thanks, boredandblogging).  I'm just a user.
[17:39] <tyche> akgraner: We try.  He taught me a bunch (and is STILL teaching me a bunch).  But the real test comes down to a new contributor's willingness to learn.
[17:42] <tyche> What else can I help people with?
[17:42] <tyche> One thing I'll mention about the socialization aspects of the UWN.  It helps to keep us on the same page with changes, and to be able to interact with eachother - offering suggestions and making corrections.
[17:42] <tyche> It's as much an important part of the UWN as the links we go to for information.
 QUESTION: how does Planet Ubuntu interact with UWN?
[17:46] <akgraner> I think tyche is having some lag issues...
[17:46] <jcastro> let's give him a few minutes to reconnect
[17:46] <akgraner> about 130sec it would seem..
[17:49] <jcastro> ok so tyche is having lag problems
[17:49] <jcastro> let's go ahead and take a 10 minute break
[17:49] <jcastro> feel free to chat in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[17:50] <jcastro> smoke if you got em!
[17:55] <jcastro> we'll begin in 5 minutes
[17:59] <akgraner> hey all Next up is Rick Spencer
[18:00] <rickspencer3> o/
[18:00] <akgraner> his session is all about writing your own application
[18:00] <akgraner> using Quickly
[18:00] <rickspencer3> akgraner, shall I start?
[18:00] <akgraner> take it away!
[18:01] <rickspencer3> great
[18:01] <rickspencer3> so I want to tell you that *anyone* can write an application that runs on Ubuntu
[18:01] <rickspencer3> if you've ever used a paint programming and a word processor, then you can write a program
[18:02] <rickspencer3> what I hope you get out of this session is confidence to get started, and a starting place
[18:02] <rickspencer3> even Chemists! ;)
[18:02] <rickspencer3> I want to tell you that writing applications is *easy* and it's *fun*
[18:02] <rickspencer3> :)
[18:03] <rickspencer3> let's start from the beginning though
[18:03] <rickspencer3> you'll need to install a couple of things to follow along
[18:03] <rickspencer3> if you put the following into a terminal, it will install what you need:
[18:03] <rickspencer3> sudo apt-get install quickly python-desktopcouch-records
[18:04] <rickspencer3> the key thing getting installed here is called "quickly"
[18:04] <rickspencer3> While it's installing, I can provide some background
[18:04] <rickspencer3> Quickly works with Karmic only, so if you haven't upgraded, I'm afraid you won't be able to follow along
[18:05] <rickspencer3> What is Quickly?
[18:05] <rickspencer3> well, it's a kind of "template" that created a starting point for an app, so you can just modify the app that is created
[18:06] <rickspencer3> the template makes choices for you, so you don't have to go out and research what to use, just use quickly, and you'll have all the deciscions made for you
[18:06] <rickspencer3> quickly also has some commands that make certain things easier, that used to be hard, especially making packages to share your application
[18:06] <rickspencer3> so, any questions yet?
 QUESTION: is Quickly like Glade ? Differences ?
[18:07] <rickspencer3> good question
[18:07] <rickspencer3> Quickly *uses* Glade
[18:07] <rickspencer3> Glade is the tool for modifying the UI for your quickly app, I will demonstrate that shortly
[18:07] <rickspencer3> similarly, Python is the language that Quickly uses
 QUESTION: Isn't Glade obsolete? What about GtkBuilder?
[18:08] <rickspencer3> akgraner, another good question
[18:08] <rickspencer3> Glade is not obslete
[18:08] <rickspencer3> GtkBuilder is a new way of writing code in Python for a GUI
[18:09] <rickspencer3> essentially, Glade is able to produce the kind of XML that GtkBuilder expects
[18:09] <rickspencer3> so Quickly uses GtkBuilder, and Glade uses GtkBuilder, so it all works great
[18:10] <rickspencer3> so, we should probably start the demo, but I want to give some credit where credit is due
[18:10] <rickspencer3> first, didrocks is the guy who wrote all the hard parts of Quickly, he did the hard work, so now we don't have any
[18:10] <rickspencer3> eeejay, kenvandine, and others helped lots too
[18:11] <rickspencer3> there's a chat room, #quickly, where you can go ask questions
[18:11] <rickspencer3> so, let's get started with the demo
[18:11] <rickspencer3> any questions first?
[18:11] <rickspencer3> alrighty, let's go then
[18:12] <rickspencer3> we are going to use quickly to create a little search utility
[18:12] <rickspencer3> Get started by creating an application from the ubuntu-project template
[18:12] <rickspencer3> I'm calling it "searchy"
[18:12] <rickspencer3> Here's the command to create the application: $quickly create ubuntu-project searchy
[18:13] <rickspencer3> This causes a bunch of info to be dumped to the command line, but ends with the application being run.
[18:13] <rickspencer3> Note that it's called "Searchy", but otherwise, it's just a stock application.
[18:13] <rickspencer3> you can click around, notice that there are menu items, and about box, etc...
[18:14] <rickspencer3> so there, we've already create an app, now we just need to edit it to make it do what we want
[18:14] <rickspencer3> note that Quickly is a command line tool, so you do use the command line to work with it, but the commands are very easy
[18:14] <rickspencer3> If you've closed the application and want to run it again :
[18:14] <rickspencer3> $cd searchy
[18:15] <rickspencer3> $quickly run
[18:15] <rickspencer3> let's edit the UI in Glade, but first, any questions?
[18:16] <rickspencer3> ok, I see some questions, let me grab them
[18:17] <rickspencer3> QUESTION: Does Quickly just do Python, or does it support compiled languages as well?
[18:17] <rickspencer3> QUESTION: Will applications built in Quickly work with both Gnome and KDE? What about other distributions?
[18:17] <rickspencer3> QUESTION:  What kind of applications should I NOT consider Quickly for?  Conversely what applications is Quickly well-suited for development of?
[18:17] <rickspencer3> these are all releated, I think
[18:18] <rickspencer3> so today, Quickly only supports a Ubuntu Gui application written in python with Gtk
[18:18] <rickspencer3> however, we wrote Quickly to support other kinds of templates as well
[18:18] <rickspencer3> I am working on some other templates, like one for making games, and one for making Gedit plugins
[18:19] <rickspencer3> if someone wanted to do one for Kubuntu, that would be really great as well
[18:19] <rickspencer3> so, let's edit the UI now
[18:19] <rickspencer3> we should be in the "searchy" directory
[18:19] <rickspencer3> so let's launch Glade
[18:20] <rickspencer3> $quickly glade
[18:20] <rickspencer3> it's important that you run Glade in this manner
[18:20] <rickspencer3> if you try to run Glade by choosing it from the menus, and then opening the files it won't work
[18:21] <rickspencer3> but if you do it with $quickly glade, it will open all of your UI files in the project, just like magic ;)
[18:21] <rickspencer3> so ...
[18:21] <rickspencer3> Under the Projects window, switch to SearchyWindow. This is the main window for your application.
[18:21] <rickspencer3> Delete the image and the label (image1 and label1) to clear out space in the UI.
[18:21] <rickspencer3> In the pallette, under Control and Display, click on the Text Entry control. Then click on the space where the label used to be.
[18:22] <rickspencer3> the "pallette" is the list of widgets to the left of Glade
[18:22] <rickspencer3> so it's kind of like a paint programming using the fill tool
[18:22] <rickspencer3> you pick the widget you want, then you "fill" in the space in your Window
[18:22] <rickspencer3> Also, turn off the size request for the window.
[18:22] <rickspencer3> Do this by selecting searchy_window in the inspector.
[18:23] <rickspencer3> Then click on the Common tab, and unselect Width Request and Height Request checkboxes.
[18:23] <rickspencer3> we're almost done editing the UI, but we need to do one thing
[18:23] <rickspencer3> we want something to happen when users type into the textbox and click the Enter key on the keyboard
[18:23] <rickspencer3> so we want to write some Python code to run when that happens
[18:24] <rickspencer3> we do this by sending a "signal" to our code
[18:24] <rickspencer3> In Glade, click on the text entry (entry1) to select it.
[18:24] <rickspencer3> then in the window down in the bottom right ....
[18:25] <rickspencer3> Click in the Hanlder column in the activate row, and type "do_search". Hit Enter.
[18:25] <rickspencer3> Make sure that you save, or your changes won't show up when you run the app!
[18:25] <rickspencer3> so after you save, you've edited your UI
[18:25] <rickspencer3> before we write code to make something happen ...
[18:25] <rickspencer3> any questions?
[18:26] <rickspencer3> akgraner_ jcastro are there questions?
 Question: Are there going to be 'Delegates' involved in passing data between front-end and back-end ???
[18:26] <jcastro> QUESTION:What other templates are there other than Ubuntu-project ?
[18:27] <rickspencer3> Dig, the data passing in Glade is not too good atm, so ...
[18:27] <rickspencer3> probably just "no" is the simplest answer
[18:28] <rickspencer3> but, your signal handler does know what widget fired the signal, so there are ways to pass data
[18:28] <rickspencer3> for the other question, atm, there is only the ubuntu-project template, as I mentioned
[18:28] <rickspencer3> we would love to see contributions for other templates
[18:29] <rickspencer3> let's write a little code ...
[18:29] <rickspencer3> Go back to the terminal and type: $quickly edit
[18:29] <rickspencer3> This will open your editor (most likey Gedit) with all of the python files for your project
[18:29] <rickspencer3> DANGER DANGER, don't dive in and start writing code
[18:30] <rickspencer3> you need to set up Gedit a tiny bit first
[18:30] <rickspencer3> Before you start, make sure your editor is set up for Python programming.
[18:30] <rickspencer3> Python uses spaces and tabs very differently, and it can cause your program not to run, and can be very confusing if you don't set up Gedit properly.
[18:30] <rickspencer3> do this in Gedit ..
[18:30] <rickspencer3> Go to Edit -> Preferences
[18:30] <rickspencer3> Go to Editor tab
[18:30] <rickspencer3> Turn on Use spaces instead of tabs
[18:30] <rickspencer3> Set Tab width to 4
[18:30] <rickspencer3> This will set up Gedit to follow Python standards while coding
[18:31] <rickspencer3> alright, now that Gedit is ready for Python code, let's write some
[18:31] <rickspencer3> Click on the tab for "searchy".
[18:32] <rickspencer3> "searchy" is the main python file for your application. It runs the code for the main window, and is the first file that gets run when you start your app.
[18:32] <rickspencer3> notice that lots and lots of code has been generated for you
[18:32] <rickspencer3> you just need to add and remove code as you wish to make your app work
[18:32] <rickspencer3> remember "do_search"?
[18:33] <rickspencer3> we want to create some code to respond to that signal from UI
[18:33] <rickspencer3> but first, we need to tell searchy to import a couple of "libraries" that we will need
[18:33] <rickspencer3> a library is just some code that comes with Ubuntu that we want to call into and use
[18:34] <rickspencer3> Add urllib by adding "import urllib" at line 10
[18:34] <rickspencer3> Add webbrowser by adding "import webbrowser" at line 11
[18:34] <rickspencer3> to make it easier to follow , I put all the code here:
[18:34] <rickspencer3> http://paste.ubuntu.com/262082/
[18:35] <rickspencer3> so now
[18:35] <rickspencer3> Then at line 82, hit enter a couple of times to add a new function at line 84.
[18:35] <rickspencer3> here's what do_search looks like:
[18:35] <rickspencer3>     def do_search(self, widget, daata=None):
[18:35] <rickspencer3>         search_words = self.builder.get_object("entry1").get_text()
[18:35] <rickspencer3>         q = urllib.urlencode({'q':search_words})
[18:35] <rickspencer3>         url = "http://linuxsearch.org/?cof=FORID%3A9&cx=003883529982892832976%3At4dsysmshjs&"
[18:35] <rickspencer3>         url += q
[18:35] <rickspencer3>         url += "&sa=Search"
[18:35] <rickspencer3>         webbrowser.open(url)
[18:36] <rickspencer3> that's Python code I wrote that runs when the "do_search" signal is sent
[18:36] <rickspencer3> Notice around line 86, the code uses "self.builder" to get a reference to the text entry that was added in Glade.
[18:36] <rickspencer3> Where does self.builder come from?
[18:36] <rickspencer3> Well, the ubuntu-project template sets up a relationship between .ui files generated by Glade, and Python *classes* that use those files.
[18:37] <rickspencer3> you can see that do_search pulls out the text from text entry on line 86
[18:38] <rickspencer3> q = urllib.urlencode({'q':search_words})
[18:38] <rickspencer3> that uses the urllib library to build a bit of a URL, in the standard way for web browsers
[18:38] <rickspencer3> line 88 - 90 build a url string
[18:38] <rickspencer3> line 91 opens the web browser
[18:39] <rickspencer3> so we're just telling Ubuntu "use the web browser to open the url that we built using the search terms from the edit field"
[18:39] <rickspencer3> then you can add:
[18:39] <rickspencer3> self.destroy()
[18:39] <rickspencer3> this will make the application close itself
[18:40] <rickspencer3> so that's all there is to creating searchy, we probably want to package it now, but first ...
[18:40] <rickspencer3> questions?
 QUESTION: should daata be data?
[18:41] <rickspencer3> ooops
[18:41] <rickspencer3> yes, that is a typo
 QUESTION: I'm getting this error when i run the app ...
 quickly run
   File "bin/searchy", line 85
     def do_search(self, widget, data=None):
                                           ^
 IndentationError: unindent does not match any outer indentation level
[18:42] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[18:43] <rickspencer3> here is what is causing this
[18:43] <rickspencer3> in a nutshell ... Python is finicky about indentation
[18:43] <rickspencer3> indention *means something* in Python
[18:44] <rickspencer3> the ubuntu-project template uses the Python standard of 4 spaces per indentations level
[18:44] <rickspencer3> so if you set up your setting properly, you should be able to fix up the indentation, and make it work
  QUESTION: Are there any guides or tutorials on building new templates for Quickly?
[18:45] <rickspencer3> yup!
[18:45] <rickspencer3> didrocks has blogged about this
[18:45]  * rickspencer3 looks for link ...
[18:45] <rickspencer3> here is his blog:
[18:45] <rickspencer3> http://blog.didrocks.fr/
[18:45] <rickspencer3> you can ask him in #quickly for specific URL
[18:45] <rickspencer3> as I say, we would love to see more templates :)
 QUESTION: Will there be added a template for creating applets in quickly?
[18:47] <rickspencer3> sure, if someone makes one, we would certainly include it
 QUESTION: will other languages supported by quickly?
[18:47] <rickspencer3> again ...
[18:47] <rickspencer3> Quickly is a fully FOSS project, so we welcome contribution of other templates (and improvements to ubuntu-project template)
[18:48] <rickspencer3> I am most passionate about Ubuntu desktop apps, so that's where I will be focusing my energies ;)
[18:48] <rickspencer3> let's touch on packaging right quick before we move on
[18:48] <rickspencer3> so ...
[18:48] <rickspencer3> after you get searchy all working great
[18:49] <rickspencer3> you might want to put it on other computers, or share it with other people
[18:49] <rickspencer3> traditionally, this has been very very very confusing and hard to do
[18:49] <rickspencer3> Quickly solves this problem by creating an application that is designed to be packaged as a ".deb" package
[18:50] <rickspencer3> tbh, your app can be packaged as is, but let's do a little work to make it a little better
[18:50] <rickspencer3> To make a package with quickly, you'll want to start by licensing your software.
[18:51] <rickspencer3> To do this, start by editing the generated file called "Copyright".
[18:51] <rickspencer3> this file *won't* be open in your edit by the $quickly edit command, so you'll need to go ahead an open it
[18:51] <rickspencer3> Change the top line to have the current year and your name and your email.
[18:51] <rickspencer3> So I would make the top line look like this:
[18:51] <rickspencer3> # Copyright (C) 2009 Rick Spencer rick.spencer@canonical.com
[18:51] <rickspencer3> now we can tell quickly to license all the files like this:
[18:52] <rickspencer3> $quickly license
[18:52] <rickspencer3> The ubuntu-project template is going to use this to apply the GPL V3 (as no license is given in the command arg) to Searchy python files.
[18:52] <rickspencer3> you can use other licenses too, but that's kinda out of scope for the tutorial
[18:52] <rickspencer3> Now I need to provide just a little info to quickly so that it knows enough about my project to make a good package.
[18:52] <rickspencer3> This info is provided in the setup.py file.
[18:52] <rickspencer3> Open setup.py.
[18:52] <rickspencer3> Scroll down to the part that says:
[18:53] <rickspencer3> ##################################################################################
[18:53] <rickspencer3> ###################### YOU SHOULD MODIFY ONLY WHAT IS BELOW ######################
[18:53] <rickspencer3> ##################################################################################
[18:53] <rickspencer3> you can personalize your package, see:
[18:53] <rickspencer3> http://paste.ubuntu.com/262183/
[18:53] <rickspencer3> for an example
[18:54] <rickspencer3> you can skip that for now if you're following along
[18:54] <rickspencer3> when you are ready to make the package, do:
[18:54] <rickspencer3> $quickly package
[18:54] <rickspencer3> First, it will search through your project for dependencies.
[18:54] <rickspencer3> Then quickly package does a bunch of deb magic.
[18:54] <rickspencer3> a whole bunch of noisy stuff will be printed out to your terminal
[18:55] <rickspencer3> but at the end, you'll have a .deb file in the same directory as your searchy directory
[18:55] <rickspencer3> If you double click on the .deb file, you can install it using gebi
[18:55] <rickspencer3> then searchy will be in your Applications menu!
[18:55] <rickspencer3> if you send someone the .deb file, it will work for them too
[18:56] <rickspencer3> that's a good intro, I hope
[18:56] <rickspencer3> any questions?
[18:56] <rickspencer3> ok, thanks all!
[18:57] <rickspencer3> come find me in #quickly or in #ubuntu-desktop
[18:57] <jcastro> woo, thanks Rick!
[18:57] <akgraner> Thanks Rick
[18:57] <jcastro> Next  up is the ubuntu one team
[18:58] <jcastro> joshuahoover, you have about 2 minutes before you begin
[18:58] <joshuahoover> jcastro: sounds good
[19:00] <joshuahoover> Hi everyone, thanks for joining this session on Ubuntu One! My name is Joshua Hoover. I'm the project administrator for Ubuntu One.
[19:00] <joshuahoover> I'm going to have mattgriffin (our product manager) and __lucio__ and Chipaca helping out today
[19:01] <joshuahoover> __lucio__ and Chipaca are lead developers on the Ubuntu One project, super smart guys who can help answer more technical questions :)
[19:01] <joshuahoover> For those not already familiar with Ubuntu One, here is the 2 sentence summary: Ubuntu One is your personal cloud. You can use it to back up, store, sync and share your data with other Ubuntu One users.
[19:01] <joshuahoover> Today we're going to go into a bit more detail on what that means for you as a user, developer and contributer. We'll cover:
[19:01] <joshuahoover> 1) How to setup Ubuntu One2) How to use the various features (files, contacts, notes, bookmarks)
[19:01] <joshuahoover> 3) Provide info on the technology we're using
[19:01] <joshuahoover> 4) Provide developers with resources that will help them make use of Ubuntu One
[19:01] <joshuahoover> 5) Highlight how you can get involved with the project
[19:01] <joshuahoover> We'll take questions at section 3 and then at the end.
[19:02] <joshuahoover> Let's start!
[19:02] <joshuahoover> If you're using Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic), you have Ubuntu One installed on your system already. If you are on Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty), you'll need to follow the install instructions found here: https://one.ubuntu.com/support/installation/
[19:02] <joshuahoover> Let's launch Ubuntu One and set it up: Applications >> Internet >> Ubuntu One
[19:02] <joshuahoover> Your browser should open
[19:02] <joshuahoover> If you are not already logged into Launchpad, you will be asked to do so. If you don't have a Launchpad account, you can create one from the login screen.
[19:03] <joshuahoover> Once you're logged in, you'll need to add your computer to your account (and subscribe to a plan if you haven't previously subscribed to Ubuntu One)
[19:03] <joshuahoover> You should now see the web interface for files. Congratulations! You've got an Ubuntu One subscription and have the client setup on your computer. :-)
[19:04] <joshuahoover> Now we'll dive into some of the specific features and how to use them and set those up.
[19:04] <joshuahoover> Let's work with files first. Click on the Places >> Ubuntu One
[19:04] <joshuahoover> This is where you will put all your files that you want to have synchronized with Ubuntu One. You'll also notice a "Shared With Me" folder there. This is a special folder that will hold any folders other Ubuntu One users share with you.
[19:04] <joshuahoover> Let's copy a folder with a small file over to our ~/Ubuntu One folder so we can see it work. I'm copying my ~/Test folder with a file named "test.txt" to the ~/Ubuntu One folder now.
[19:05] <joshuahoover> You should see a notification telling you your files are updating.
[19:05] <joshuahoover> Once the folder and file are uploaded, you will see another notification telling you Ubuntu One is done updating.
[19:05] <joshuahoover> Now's a good time to check out the web interface by going to: https://one.ubuntu.com/files
[19:06] <joshuahoover> You should see your folder and file in the web interface. On the web we can upload new files, delete files and folders, and more. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/FileSharing#Web%20browser for more info on managing your files in the web interface.
[19:06] <joshuahoover> Since we're in the web interface, let's take a look at how to share files and folders with other people.
[19:06] <joshuahoover> Click on a folder under "My Files" and then click the "Sharing" link.
[19:06] <joshuahoover> Type in an email address, a name for this share that will appear to the person you're sending it to, and select whether you want this folder to be read-only or not.
[19:07] <joshuahoover> Click the "Share this Folder" button.
[19:07] <joshuahoover> The person you sent the share to will now receive an email. If they don't have an Ubuntu One subscription, they'll be able to subscribe to the server and then have access to your share on the web and (if they have Ubuntu One installed) on their computer under the "Shared With Me" folder.
[19:07] <joshuahoover> To cancel the share, click on the "Sharing" link again.
[19:08] <joshuahoover> Click the "Stop Sharing" button.
[19:08] <joshuahoover> Now that person won't be able to access that shared folder anymore.
[19:08] <joshuahoover> For more info on files in Ubuntu One, please check out this tutorial: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/FileSharing
[19:08] <joshuahoover> Contacts are next.
[19:08] <joshuahoover> In order to fully use contacts in Ubuntu One, you'll need to be running Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) and Evolution for managing your contacts.
[19:09] <joshuahoover> Open Evolution, Applications >> Internet >> Evolution Mail
[19:09] <joshuahoover> We're going to copy our contacts from our current Evolution address book to the Ubuntu One address book first. A tutorial with screen shots that you can follow along with is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/Contacts#Copy%20Evolution%20contacts%20to%20Ubuntu%20One
[19:09] <joshuahoover> Click on the Contacts button in the left window pane
[19:09] <joshuahoover> Click on your Personal address book
[19:09] <joshuahoover> From the Actions menu select Copy All Contacts To...
[19:10] <joshuahoover> Select Ubuntu One and click OK
[19:10] <joshuahoover> All your contacts should now be copied to the Ubuntu One address book.
[19:10] <joshuahoover> For steps on how to set the Ubuntu One address book to be your default address book in Evolution, please see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/Contacts#Set%20Ubuntu%20One%20as%20your%20default%20address%20book
[19:11] <joshuahoover> If all went well, we should be able to see our contacts on the web at: https://one.ubuntu.com/contacts within 10 minutes of transferring our contacts to the Ubuntu One address book
[19:11] <joshuahoover> Now we can edit our contacts on the web and Evolution and they'll be in sync. :-)
[19:12] <joshuahoover> One important note: Syncing between the Ubuntu One cloud and your desktop occurs every 10 minutes for contacts and bookmarks.
[19:12] <joshuahoover> For more info on managing contacts on the web, please see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/Contacts#Managing%20contacts%20on%20the%20web
[19:12] <joshuahoover> Now on to notes.
[19:12] <joshuahoover> In order to fully use notes in Ubuntu One, you'll need to be running Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) and Tomboy.
[19:13] <joshuahoover> Open Applications >> Accessories >> Tomboy Notes
[19:13] <joshuahoover> We're going to setup Tomboy to sync with Ubuntu One. A tutorial with screen shots that you can follow along with is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/Notes#Setup%20Tomboy%20to%20sync%20with%20Ubuntu%20One
[19:13] <joshuahoover> Select Preferences from the Tomboy Edit menu
[19:13] <joshuahoover> Click on the Synchronization tab
[19:14] <joshuahoover> Select Tomboy Web from the Service drop down list
[19:14] <joshuahoover> Set the Server text input field to https://one.ubuntu.com/notes/
[19:14] <joshuahoover> Click on the Connect to Server button
[19:14] <joshuahoover> Your browser should open, asking you to sign in to Ubuntu One
[19:15] <joshuahoover> Sign in and then add your computer to your Ubuntu One account with a friendly name (right now it incorrectly defaults to "none", we'll be fixing this)
[19:15] <joshuahoover> On success, you will receive a message: Tomboy Web Authorization Successful
[19:15] <joshuahoover> Let's go back to Tomboy
[19:16] <joshuahoover> Click the Save button in the preferences dialog
[19:16] <joshuahoover> When prompted if you want to synchronize your notes now, click the Yes button
[19:16] <joshuahoover> Click the "Close" button when you see the successful sync dialog.
[19:16] <joshuahoover> Now, if you go to https://one.ubuntu.com/notes/ you should see your notes there. For more information on how to manage your notes on the web, please see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/Notes#Managing%20notes%20on%20the%20web
[19:16] <joshuahoover> Last, but not least, we have bookmarks, which is still in beta
[19:17] <joshuahoover> You must be using Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic) and Firefox 3.5.x to use bookmarks.
[19:17] <joshuahoover> First, please close all your Firefox windows.
[19:17] <joshuahoover> Now let's install The Ubuntu One bookmarks extension, which is called "bindwood".
[19:17] <joshuahoover> A graphical tutorial for installing Bindwood, can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/Bookmarks
[19:17] <joshuahoover> To keep things short, let's install from a terminal session: $ sudo apt-get bindwood
[19:18] <joshuahoover> Now open Firefox
[19:18] <joshuahoover> When prompted to allow Bindwood access to the keyring click Always Allow
[19:19] <joshuahoover> dutchie made a good catch on the install:  $ sudo apt-get install bindwood
[19:19] <joshuahoover> sorry if that tripped people up
[19:20] <joshuahoover> Firefox may not be responsive for a bit as it adds existing bookmarks to the underlying CouchDB database. This is normal. It is not normal if Firefox is continually not responding with Bindwood installed.
[19:21] <joshuahoover> Those are the core features of Ubuntu One: Storing, syncing and sharing files, contacts, notes, and bookmarks
[19:21] <joshuahoover> So what's the tech behind all this?
[19:22] <joshuahoover> Here's the ultra quick overview of the technology for Ubuntu One:
[19:22] <joshuahoover> Languages - PythonDatabases - Postgres, CouchDB
[19:22] <joshuahoover> Messaging - RabbitMQ
[19:22] <joshuahoover> Misc. - Amazon EC2 & S3, Django
[19:22] <joshuahoover> Rather than go into details, does anyone have any questions about the tech we're using?
[19:23] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: What is couch data?
[19:24] <joshuahoover> When we refer to "couch data" we mean the data stored in CouchDB, which is used as the database for contacts and bookmarks
[19:24] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: What is RabbitMQ?
[19:24] <joshuahoover> __lucio__ or Chipaca: care to answer that one?
[19:25] <Chipaca> RabbitMQ is an erlang server that implements AMQP, a message queue
[19:25] <joshuahoover> Chipaca: maybe tell people what we use it for
[19:25] <Chipaca> we use it to let the different bits talk to each other
[19:25] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: why use couchdb rather than a more traditional database?
[19:26] <joshuahoover> __lucio__ or Chipaca: care to answer this one as well? ^^
[19:26] <Chipaca> as __lucio__ said, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Message_Queuing_Protocol
[19:27] <joshuahoover> Are there any other questions about the Ubuntu One technology? We'll take other questions at the end.
[19:28] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: how does the synchronization in U1 work? could it be be used to say... synchronize all my facebook contacts on my laptop with my desktop?
[19:29] <Chipaca> in theory, yes; somebody would have to write the bits to plug the facebook addressbook (or whatever it is) into Ubuntu One
[19:30] <mattgriffin> yitsrc: dev plans info coming up
[19:30] <joshuahoover> OK, if we don't have anymore tech specific questions, let's go over some developer info
[19:30] <joshuahoover> Now that Karmic is released, we're going to show developers some more love.
[19:30] <__lucio__> re why couch? http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/24/1744227 theres lots more info
[19:30] <joshuahoover> We have plans to create more docs and how-to's that explain how a Developer can make  use of Ubuntu One.
[19:31] <joshuahoover> And, of course, we want to keep collaborating with all of you out there that have projects that might be interested in Ubuntu One and vice versa!
[19:31] <joshuahoover> OK, now onto some Ubuntu One resources for developers:
[19:31] <joshuahoover> Desktop Couch is all about CouchDB on the desktop, which is now standard in Karmic.
[19:31] <joshuahoover> By using Desktop Couch in your project, you'll get automatic replication and synchronization right out of the box in addition to libraries that make using CouchDB easier in your Python and C based applications.
[19:31] <mattgriffin> A4Tech: we just increased the storage for the paid plan to 50 GB. we will probably offer higher capacity plans in the future but nothing to announce today.
[19:31] <joshuahoover> Developer related links for Desktop Couch include:
[19:31] <joshuahoover> Desktop Couch Launchpad project - https://edge.launchpad.net/desktopcouch
[19:31] <joshuahoover> Specifications - http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch
[19:31] <joshuahoover> Desktop Couch Google Group - http://groups.google.com/group/desktop-couchdb
[19:31] <joshuahoover> Desktop Couch specification - http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch
[19:31] <joshuahoover> Stuart Langridge's Desktop Couch IRC talk - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2009/09/03/desktop-couch-irc-talk
[19:31] <joshuahoover> Stuart Langridge's presentation, Building applications with Ubuntu One - http://www.kryogenix.org/code/building-applications-with-ubuntu-one/
[19:32] <joshuahoover> One project using Desktop Couch is Quickly, which rickspencer3 gave a session on just before this one.
[19:32] <mattgriffin> A4Tech: API info coming up
[19:32] <joshuahoover> Quickly helps you create software programs (and other things) quickly. It's like the Django or Rails for Ubuntu development. Very cool.
[19:32] <joshuahoover> Links for Quickly include:
[19:32] <joshuahoover> Quickly Launchpad project - https://edge.launchpad.net/quickly
[19:32] <joshuahoover> Quickly wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly
[19:33] <joshuahoover> If you're interested in building a file sync client for Ubuntu One, your best bet currently is to look at the code for the Ubuntu One client and the Ubuntu One storage protocol:
[19:33] <joshuahoover> Ubuntu One client code  Launchpad page - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client
[19:33] <joshuahoover> Ubuntu One storage protocol code Launchpad page - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-storage-protocol
[19:33] <joshuahoover> We'd like to see other file sync clients built for Ubuntu One. If you're interested making a client, please contact myself, Chipaca, or __lucio__ on the #ubuntuone IRC channel at any time.
[19:33] <__lucio__> yltsrc, symlink support will be ready for lucid.
[19:34] <__lucio__> if anyone wants to build a client, ill do my best to help. i really want to see that happen and im interested in seeing how it goes.
[19:35] <joshuahoover> So that's what we have right now for developers. Like I said earlier, we are going to increase developer resources going forward so that some of you can build truly great apps that make the most of Ubuntu and the Ubuntu One cloud!
[19:35] <joshuahoover> Now on to how you can contribute to Ubuntu One
[19:35] <joshuahoover> There are a variety of ways that anyone can contribute to the Ubuntu One project. Here are just a few:
[19:36] <joshuahoover> Bug triage - Help us triage bugs. Some Ubuntu One specific guidelines can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne#Bug%20Triage
[19:36] <joshuahoover> Join #ubuntuone on freenode - Help other users or chat with the development team. Tell us how Ubuntu One is working for you and how you're using it each day.
[19:36] <joshuahoover> Participate on LP Answers and Ubuntu Forums to help get the right answers out to users with questions.
[19:36] <joshuahoover> For developers who also work in a multi-platform world, we would be happy to help you port the client software over so more users on other OSs can enjoy Ubuntu One.
[19:36] <mattgriffin> yltsrc: ^^^
[19:36] <joshuahoover> Please keep passing along your great suggestions. For now, just file a bug and mention that it's a feature suggestion. We review them daily and are always interested in what our users want out of the service.
[19:36] <joshuahoover> Promote Ubuntu One - Tell your friends and family. Ubuntu One simplifies many of the tasks that are frequently complex in Ubuntu so helping them to switch from other platforms should be easier.
[19:37] <joshuahoover> We're very excited about Ubuntu One and hope you are too. Here are a few links about Ubuntu One that you may find helpful:
[19:37] <joshuahoover> Website - https://one.ubuntu.com
[19:37] <joshuahoover> Blog - http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/
[19:37] <joshuahoover> Identi.ca - http://identi.ca/ubuntuone
[19:37] <joshuahoover> Twitter - http://twitter.com/ubuntuone
[19:37] <joshuahoover> Tutorials - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials/
[19:37] <joshuahoover> Release notes - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/ReleaseNotes
[19:37] <joshuahoover> Lauchpad project - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone
[19:38] <joshuahoover> Now, we would be happy to answer questions you may have. :-)
[19:39] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: Will there be a Windows client?
[19:39] <__lucio__> yes
[19:39] <__lucio__> but far away in the future :)
[19:39] <joshuahoover> heh, thanks __lucio__!
[19:39] <__lucio__> porting is not that hard, but maintaining a whole new build environment is
[19:40] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: When will ubuntu one be available for other ubuntu versions?
[19:40] <mattgriffin> ScottK: we realize many work in a multi-platform world, but windows development is not where our strengths lie. this is where we need the community's help.
[19:40] <__lucio__> on 10.4, 10.10, 11.04
[19:40] <__lucio__> etc :)
[19:41] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: Can Ubuntu One be based on our disk space: meaning that we can share files as big as we want as long as there is disk space available on the other computer?
[19:41] <__lucio__> i dont think that we will backport to 8.10 or earlier
[19:41] <Chipaca> ah!
[19:41] <mattgriffin> dhillon-v10: interesting idea but i don't anticipate us moving in that direction in the future
[19:41] <Chipaca> we have considered doing local syncing
[19:42] <Chipaca> so if we get round to that, then yes, over a local network
[19:42] <__lucio__> MenZa, thats also your answer re opening the server. we will allow for p2p sync in the future, without servers.
[19:42] <Chipaca> also, if the file is too big, it won't download
[19:43] <joshuahoover> Any other questions about Ubuntu One?
[19:44] <joshuahoover> Remember, mattgriffin is the Product Manager for Ubuntu One and __lucio__ and Chipaca are two of the lead developers. Take advantage of the next 15 minutes while you can. :)
[19:44] <mattgriffin> MenZa: did we answer your questions regarding APIs for 3rd party apps usage?
[19:44] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: Are their any clients for other platforms yet?
[19:45] <joshuahoover> No, no other clients right now for other platforms.
[19:45] <__lucio__> right now the client is only for linux/gtk, packaged for ubuntu (as far as i know)
[19:45] <__lucio__> we will do headless clients (no gui, can be run on servers), then maybe kde,
[19:45] <__lucio__> then maybe some packaging will occur
[19:45] <__lucio__> and we want to get to mac and windows
[19:45] <joshuahoover> Kubuntu users can use Ubuntu One, but they have to install GNOME dependencies...but it does work.
[19:46] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: What about mobile devices?
[19:46] <joshuahoover> mattgriffin: ^^
[19:47] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: when will a home server version be available, for those of us with our own servers?
[19:47] <mattgriffin> Ibrinkma: we realize the benefits of mobile (browser-based and/or apps) so we will work on those in the future.
[19:47] <joshuahoover> We do not intend on making the server portion of our code available in the near future, but we are considering sync across your local LAN between computers
[19:48] <joshuahoover> Question - is the data encrypted on the server? If no, why not?
[19:48] <Chipaca> Also, a headless client might be what you want for a home server
[19:48] <Chipaca> it is not encrypted, but will be in the future
[19:48] <joshuahoover> Data on the server is not encrypted unless you encrypt it locally right now
[19:48] <joshuahoover> Please see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Security for more info on our security and privacy
[19:49] <Chipaca> we didn't encrypt it because it makes sharing a lot harder, and it's already fairly hard
[19:49] <mattgriffin> furicle: server encryption causes problems with syncing and sharing... two features that are really important to ubuntu one
[19:49] <joshuahoover> QUeSTION: how about family plans?
[19:49] <joshuahoover> mattgriffin: ^^
[19:49] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: is Canonical expected to work together with Mozilla's Weave? They seem complementary.
[19:50] <mattgriffin> Solarion: there will be a family plan for multiple users (user management) and enhanced sharing abilities
[19:50] <joshuahoover> We've talked to people at Mozilla and we definitely have some things that are complimentary, but we have no details on future plans there.
[19:51] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: So now we can sync contacts. How about subscribing to another Ubuntu One user contact information, so they are always up-to-date?
[19:51] <mattgriffin> Solarion: we don't anticipate having this ready for Lucid. many other features we're working on :)
[19:52] <joshuahoover> Subscribing to another Ubuntu One user's contact info isn't something we've discussed per se, but we have discussed sharing of contact information, which could include your own contact information, of course
[19:52] <mattgriffin> Chopinhauer: that fits into our sharing plans and sharing of contacts
[19:52] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: business plans as well? Do you expect to tie in to computer/server management here for enterprise (or enterprising home) situations?
[19:52] <joshuahoover> mattgriffin: ^^
[19:52] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: Why don't you release the server part?
[19:53] <mattgriffin> Solarion: there are many similarities between a family plan and a business (or small business) plan. those will probably be developed and released around the same time.
[19:53] <joshuahoover> We currently don't plan to release the file sharing server code and web UI / credit card billing code, and that code is written assuming that things are running on S3/EC2, so it couldn't be run on your own servers very easily anyway.
[19:54] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: how about sharing feature - not only via email, but via http url also? (just like in dropbox, when you can just use direct link for giving access to your data). Did you think about this?
[19:54] <Chipaca> that is already done
[19:54] <joshuahoover> We will be providing public sharing of files/folders with just a URL
[19:54] <Chipaca> however, right now the other person needs to have an account as well
[19:54] <mattgriffin> ukev: we want ubuntu one to make money and enable us to fund future development.. most of the service is open... see joshuahoover's reply ^^^
[19:54] <Chipaca> public urls are for lucid afaik
[19:54] <joshuahoover> Chipaca: correct, we'll be doing those as part of lucid
[19:55] <joshuahoover> QUESTION: There was a Akonadi and Couchdb demo done at GCDS.  Is anything coming of that.
[19:56] <joshuahoover> We're still working with Akonadi and will continue making progress there in regards to Akonadi and Desktop Couch
[19:58] <joshuahoover> Alright, thanks everyone for your time and great questions! we'll be on #ubuntuone, so feel free to ping me there.
[20:01] <popey> Is it me?
[20:02] <joshuahoover> popey: it's all yours
[20:02] <popey> Thanks
[20:02] <popey> A-hoy hoy!
[20:02] <popey> I'm Alan Pope and I have been using Ubuntu for about 5 years now on desktops, laptops and servers.
[20:02] <popey> I like to help other people run Ubuntu, and I do that via mailing lists and IRC, and in real life.
[20:02] <popey> I'm on the Community Council, LoCo Council, EMEA Membership Board and I'm one of the presenters of the Ubuntu UK Podcast.
[20:02] <popey> ..and apparently I look a bit like Elvis
[20:03] <popey> I'm not a developer, in fact my contribution in terms of code to Ubuntu consists of one line of C
[20:03] <popey> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/26251982/patch.txt <- See lines 36 & 37 in that file
[20:03] <popey> (arguably that's two characters, not one line, but lets not be too picky) :)
[20:03] <popey> I'm telling you this because I believe there is a lot of room for people to contribute to Ubuntu by helping others when things go wrong.
[20:04] <popey> Fabian Rodriguez talked earlier about how to be your neighbour's Ubuntu Guru which is great, especially if you already know how to help them, how to fix things for them, but what if you don't?
[20:04] <popey> My session is called.. "What to do when things go wrong."
[20:04] <popey> or
[20:04] <popey> +------------+
[20:04] <popey> |DON'T PANIC!|
[20:04] <popey> +------------+
[20:04] <popey> This session is aimed at people who need help understanding what to do when things go wrong, and people who want to help others in that situation.
[20:04] <popey> It's quite a basic session, so we won't be going massively technical (I hope)
[20:05] <popey> Ok, lets begin...
[20:05] <popey> All computer systems fail in some way at some point.
[20:05] <popey> All of them.
[20:05] <popey> No matter what a salesperson may tell you!
[20:05] <popey> In fact I'm sure many of you have stories about how your own computers have failed in spectacular/amusing/frustrating ways in the past.
[20:05] <popey> The computer I am typing this on sometimes shuts down in the middle of whilst I'm
[20:06] <popey> ..but hopefully today it will stay yo
[20:06] <popey> *up
[20:06] <popey> So what do we do when things go wrong, and what do I mean by 'wrong' in this case?
[20:06] <popey> Now given this is Ubuntu Open Week, lets start with a basic assumption that you're using Ubuntu or some derivative of it :)
[20:06] <popey> QUESTION: How many people in -chat are using Ubuntu or some derivative?
[20:07] <popey> Ok, good start :)
[20:07] <popey> These are generally not _solutions_ to problems:-
[20:07] <popey> * Rebooting - This may make the issue go away temporarily, or perhaps permanently, but it rarely _fixes_ anything
[20:07] <popey> * Reinstalling - Whilst your system may be 'messed up' almost always there is a way to 'unmess' it without wiping out and starting again
[20:07] <popey> * Sacrificing chickens - Whilst it is indeed fun to draw chalk pentagrams on the floor, and scented candles make the room smell less funky, think of the poor chickens.
[20:08] <popey>  
[20:08] <popey> Step 1: Identifying there is even a problem.
[20:08] <popey>  
[20:08] <popey> In recent versions of Ubuntu the notification system (battery warning popups for example) have 'lost' the ability to be clicked.
[20:08] <popey> Some might consider this a problem, bug or a regression from previous functionality
[20:08] <popey> However this particular change was intentional, a design decision.
[20:08] <popey> Some may like it, some may not, but the fact remains that this particular feature was designed in, and arguably isn't a problem as such.
[20:08] <popey> So part of this process is merely understanding that there is even an issue, and that will come out over the next steps.
[20:09] <popey>  
[20:09] <popey> Step 2: Identifying what the problem actually is
[20:09] <popey>  
[20:09] <popey> Lets suppose someone (you or someone else) has a problem, how can we find out more?
[20:09] <popey> * Questions we could ask..
[20:09] <popey> Many of these questions are generic and thus will help in problem diagnosis for just about any kind of problem.
[20:09] <popey> Of course each issue has very specific questions that may be asked, and we don't have time now to go through all of them.
[20:09] <popey>  
[20:09] <popey> "Describe the problem"
[20:10] <popey>  - Before diving into lots of probing technical questions, get the user to describe the issue in their own words.
[20:10] <popey>  - Think about how this looks/feels for them. Imagine the frustration they have when their system isn't working the way they see it 'should'.
[20:10] <popey>  - It may be that after this very first question with a little experience it's possible to point to an explaination or solution to the issue.
[20:10] <popey>  
[20:10] <popey> "Do you get an error message?"
[20:11] <popey>  - Often users will ignore error messages because they make no sense, are technical, or perhaps don't stay on screen very long
[20:11] <popey>  - In the event that a program crashes, getting the user to run it from a terminal may yield textual error messages they may not otherwise see
[20:11] <popey>  - Error messages and message codes are great, even if we don't understand their meaning!
[20:11] <popey>  
[20:11] <popey> "When did this previously work?"
[20:11] <popey>  - Perhaps the application in use has never worked, maybe it worked last time it was tested, and that was 6 months ago.
[20:11] <popey>  
[20:11] <popey> "What changed?"
[20:12] <popey> It could be that some software has been updated/installed...
[20:12] <popey> ..or perhaps the printer now has a new IP address thanks to DHCP...
[20:12] <popey> ..or the earth rotated and the day rolled over - see bug 255161 - "The Tuesday printing bug"...
[20:12] <popey> (great bug, everyone should read that)
[20:12] <popey> ..maybe a hardware issue has manifestied itself - RAM going bad, a capacitor going pop, solder on the video card breaking down, dust in the heatsink causing overheating..
[20:12] <popey> ..the possibilities are almost endless. Fun!
[20:12] <popey>  
[20:13] <popey> So 'nothing changed' is often a phrase which should be taken with a pinch of salt :)
[20:13] <popey>  
[20:13] <popey> "{How} can you reproduce the problem?"
[20:13] <popey>  - Some issues are one-off or imtermittent whilst others are easily reproducable. Which is this?
[20:13] <popey>  - There's a big difference between 'Firefox crashes' and 'Firefox crashes when I have 500 tabs open, and I visit my gallery showing a zillion lolcat pictures using a java applet'.
[20:13] <popey>  - If the user can reproduce the error condition it greatly improves the ability to diagnose the problem.
[20:13] <popey>  
[20:14] <popey> (in addition, if someone _else_ can reproduce the error issue, things are even easier to diagnose - more eyeballs on the problem)
[20:14] <popey>  
[20:14] <popey> "Can you screenshot/pastebin the issue?"
[20:14] <popey>  - If the issue is a visual one - such as applications looking 'wrong' then a picture tells a thousand words.
[20:14] <popey>  - Use tools like http://imagebin.org/  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/ and pastebinit to capture detail
[20:14] <popey>  - In some cases this is difficult or impossible. Kernel panics for example aren't easy to screenshot. Some people take photos with mobile phones in this instance :)
[20:14] <popey>  
[20:14] <popey> Ok, so by now we should have some kind of handle on what the user is experiencing.
[20:15] <popey> We might not yet know why, and whether it's fixable / changeable, but we should at least understand what the user is seeing which is a great first step.
[20:15] <popey> I'm happy to take questions btw :)
[20:15] <popey> ok, so moving on..
[20:16] <popey> Step 3: Getting more information
[20:16] <popey>  
[20:16] <popey> This is where we start delving further into the issue.
[20:16] <popey> Some of these questions will be more/less useful than others, depending on the specific issue.
[20:16] <popey>  
[20:16] <popey> "What version of Ubuntu are you using?"
[20:16] <popey>  - Applications change over time, and perhaps the 'issue' is just that the user is seeing unexpected functional changes.
[20:16] <popey>  - System -> About Ubuntu, and the command "lsb_release -a" help here.
[20:16] <popey>  
[20:17] <popey> "What have you tried so far?"
[20:17] <popey>  - It's possible the user has gone through a lot of online guides and has got the system into a state which is worse than when they started. It's a good idea to find out what they did, so any damage can be undone.
[20:17] <popey>  
[20:17] <popey> 20:17:01 < Solarion> QUESTION: Is panicking a good option?
[20:17] <popey> Excellent question!
[20:17] <popey> The problem with panicing is it leads to making rash decisions
[20:17] <popey> When people panic, they do silly things like reinstalling without backing up crucial data
[20:18] <popey> or try installing extra stuff to fix the broken thing
[20:18] <popey> or edit random files without backing up the file before hand
[20:18] <popey> Whilst there may be a time pressure to fix something, panicing usually doens't help :)
[20:18] <popey>  
[20:19] <popey> "What version of the application are you using?"
[20:19] <popey>  - Perhaps this is an issue that only manifests itself in one particular version
[20:19] <popey>  - Maybe what the user experiences is actually now standard functionality (as per Step 1 above)
[20:19] <popey>  - Help -> About in most applications can find the version, but what if it's crashing, so the user can't access that?
[20:19] <popey>   - "dpkg -l <packagename>" will list the version of the package the user has installed.
[20:19] <popey>   - http://packages.ubuntu.com/<packagename> is useful as a reference of what versions of packages might be installed
[20:20] <popey>  
[20:20] <popey> 20:19:50 < sebsebseb> QUESTION:  How to quickly  and smoothley calm someone down,  that moans and moans and moans, when things start going wrong with their Ubuntu install?
[20:20] <popey> A nice cup of tea and a biscuit may help here.
[20:20] <popey> Seriously though..
[20:20] <popey> In my experience it's a case of managing someones expectations
[20:21] <popey> saying something like "Ok, your system is broken, there's a number of options..1) we investigate things, this will take some time, 2) we reinstall, you may lose config/data, 3) we restore from backup, you may lose config, data"
[20:21] <popey> (or whatever the options are in this hypothetical scenario)
[20:22] <popey> explaining the options to the user, and empowering them to make the decision as to the next step is useful
[20:22] <popey> always keeping them informed of the risks/benefits of each step
[20:22] <popey> 20:21:39 < Solarion> QUESTION: At what point is it advisable to subscribe to canonical support?  Are Universe and Multiverse supported?
[20:22] <popey> Good question.
[20:23] <popey> It's always a good time to subscribe to Canonical support if you have the money :)
[20:23] <popey> But it's a choice the user has to make.
[20:23] <popey> They might be of the mind that they want an "authoratitive answer" to their support questions
[20:24] <popey> some people just dont like placing trust in a community of individuals
[20:24] <popey> some prefer to pay the piper
[20:24] <popey> if so, then paid canonical support may be for them
[20:25] <popey> As for which bits are supported, you'd need to ask canonical that.
[20:25] <popey> 20:22:11 < Solarion> QUESTION: Is canonical working at some sort of global rollback of configuration, perhaps through git?
[20:25] <popey> Dunno, you'd need to ask them.
[20:25] <popey> 20:22:37 < openweek5> Question: when something *is'nt working* is there an easy way to tell if the app is incorrectly/not/wrongly, configured?
[20:25] <popey> Good question. I have compared applications between machines before now
[20:26] <popey> and compared configuration between machines..
[20:26] <popey> I've even had python mess up on me so badly that I had to copy /usr/bin/python from one machine to another to be able to get up and running again
[20:26] <popey> which is somewhat scary :) copying binary program files around isn't really what we should have to do to fix stuff
[20:26] <popey>  
[20:27] <popey> ok, back to the step 3 "getting more info"..
[20:27] <popey> "Are you using any non-standard packages or repositories?"
[20:27] <popey>  - Users often install packages from PPAs or 3rd party repositories, sometimes these packages can conflict with existing packages
[20:27] <popey>  
[20:28] <popey> Ok, so by this point, asking yourself (or the person who needs help) those questions should get you fairly far in understanding what the issue is..
[20:28] <popey> ..but how can you help yourself to fix it..
[20:28] <popey>  
[20:28] <popey> Step 3: Helping yourself
[20:28] <popey>  
[20:29] <popey> Now of course I can't go through every possible support problem in Ubuntu and give a solution here, but I can point to where you can help yourself to get more diagnostic information.
[20:29] <popey> 1) Finding the right package - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
[20:29] <popey>  - Whilst your issue might not actually be a bug, the above page is useful for figuring out which part of your Ubuntu system has a problem.
[20:29] <popey>  
[20:29] <popey> 2) Debugging applications - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
[20:29] <popey>  - Again, you might not be experiencing a bug, but you can learn a lot about the problem from debugging it
[20:29] <popey>  
[20:30] <popey> 3) Useful tools to help you diagnose / fix issues
[20:30] <popey>  - A live Linux CD. I tend to have an Ubuntu Desktop CD of the most recent few releases kicking around in my toolbox.
[20:30] <popey>  - I'll also keep a Knoppix DVD handy, because that's got lots more useful 'stuff' on it than the standard Ubuntu Desktop CD.
[20:31] <popey>  - A bootable USB key running a recent release of Ubuntu. Many new computers - netbooks especially - don't come with optical drives, so USB sticks are very handy here.
[20:31] <popey>  - A copy of the ISO images of the main recent releases of Ubuntu
[20:31] <popey>  - A copy of the entire repository (perhaps a step to far :) ) on my network so I can easily install/reinstall systems quickly
[20:31] <popey>  
[20:31] <popey> QUESTION: What else do people in -chat have in your toolbox that I missed?
[20:32] <popey> whilst you think on that, a question...
[20:32] <popey> 20:31:24 < aim1159> QUESTION: how to deal with binary apps such as flash plugin, adobe reader and etc.
[20:32] <popey> Good question. There are 3 binary apps on my system that I have trouble with, nvidia driver, flash and skype :(
[20:33] <popey> with flash I mitigate issues (with youtube) by using a great greasemonkey script called "youtube perfect"
[20:33] <popey> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748  +   http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/38074  == awesome
[20:34] <popey> for nvidia I ran with the nouveau driver on my dual screen desktop for a while, and that works really nicely, but no 3d yet :(
[20:34] <popey> sadly if you choose to run binary stuff like this you're a bit limited, however at least nvidia have their own bug reporting tool which helps to gather info for sending to nvidia
[20:35] <popey> Some good answers to my question about what people have in their toolbox...
[20:35] <popey> 20:32:36 < aim1159> popey: system rescue cd - the gentoo derivative very handy to get thing working
[20:35] <popey> 20:34:00 < JohnRobert> ANSWER: another computer with the internet
[20:35] <popey> +1
[20:35] <popey> 20:34:23 < Solarion> popey: for those situations in which nothing else is working, I like to be sure to pack a portable hard surface against which to pound my head until my thinking clears or consciousness dissipates.
[20:35] <popey> 20:34:44 < furicle> Toolbox musts - a USB -> SATA, IDE adapter so you can take the drive to a different machine
[20:36] <popey> 20:35:04 < Mean-Machine> popey: Ubuntu Rescue Remix http://ubuntu-rescue-remix.org/
[20:36] <popey> ooo, not heard of that, looks handy :)
[20:36] <popey> 20:36:08 < itnet7> popey: a known working usb wireless adapter
[20:36] <popey> that is vital, especially for random laptops you're installing on!
[20:37] <popey> 20:34:30 < sebsebseb> JohnRobert: Live CD's are also useful if problems happen, as well as sometimes the recovery mode
[20:37] <popey> indeed, recovery mode has saved me a few times!
[20:37] <popey> 20:37:09 < Solarion> popey: network cable is a good idea
[20:37] <popey> heh, I used to carry a yellow and a blue laplink cable around, back in the day
[20:37] <popey> showing my age now
[20:37] <popey> 20:37:21 < FuturePilot> popey: usb hard drive for backup up data
[20:37] <popey> ooo, good one...
[20:37] <popey> I recently did a reinstall for a user.. hang on finding blog post...
[20:38] <popey> http://popey.com/blog/2009/07/16/migrating-from-wubi-to-full-ubuntu-install/
[20:38] <popey> used a USB hard disk to backup user data, then reinstall to convert from wubi to "proper" install
[20:38] <popey> very handy to have around
[20:39] <popey> Ok, moving on...
[20:39] <popey>  
[20:39] <popey> Step 4: Getting help with the problem
[20:39] <popey>  
[20:39] <popey> Armed with the information above, you'll be able to get further help (if required) from any of the following places:-
[20:39] <popey>  
[20:39] <popey> 1) IRC - #ubuntu is the official support channel for Ubuntu
[20:39] <popey>  - There are great people who are happy to give support and advice to users.
[20:39] <popey>  - Arriving armed with the detail set out in step 2 could make support easier for others, and get your issue resolved quicker!
[20:39] <popey>  - #ubuntu can get busy at some times. See bug 392799 "#ubuntu too noisy to be useful"
[20:39] <popey>  
[20:39] <popey> If IRC isn't your thing.. there are plenty of other options!
[20:39] <popey>  
[20:40] <popey> 2) Forums - http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=327
[20:40] <popey>  - There's a great set of support categories on the forums, and plenty of people who can help.
[20:40] <popey>  
[20:40] <popey> 3) Launchpad answers - http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[20:40] <popey>  - Another great way to get support is via launchpad.
[20:40] <popey>  - If a support request turns out to be a bug, it's very quick/easy to convert a question to a bug report.
[20:40] <popey>  
[20:40] <popey> 4) Mailing lists - https://lists.ubuntu.com/#Community+Support
[20:40] <popey>  - http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists/etiquette is worth a read :)
[20:40] <popey>  - ubuntu-users gets about 1MB of email traffic per month.
[20:41] <popey>  
[20:41] <popey> 5) Your local LoCo team - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
[20:41] <popey>  - Your LoCo probably has experts who are willing to help you
[20:41] <popey>  - They may have their own Mailing List, IRC Channel or Forum in which you can get support - perhaps in your first language if it's not EN
[20:42] <popey>  
[20:42] <popey> 6) Your local Linux User Group (LUG) - http://www.linux.org/groups/
[20:42] <popey>  - LUGs are just like LoCos, with a wealth of knowledge to be tapped into.
[20:42] <popey>  - You may even be able to attend a LUG meeting and take your problematic system along!
[20:42] <popey>  
[20:43] <popey> ok, a question..
[20:43] <popey> 20:39:55 < aim1159> QUESTION: i got a complex prolbem with usb hard drives been disapeared from the system. filled a bugreport (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/461264) , but nobody ever toch it. and the problem  still exist. how one can force some problems up? I mean someone non-developer?
[20:44] <popey> As your question is about bugs, and the next session is about bug reporting, I'd hold off and ask it then if you can.. however..
[20:44] <popey> This is a frustrating thing for many new users, and it's a difficult one to fix
[20:44] <popey> We have more bugs than we have developer time to work on
[20:45] <popey> We rely on people triaging bugs, and helping bug reporters to get good information in the bug report
[20:46] <popey> which leads nicely onto my step 5..
[20:46] <popey>  
[20:46] <popey> Step 5: Filing a bug...
[20:46] <popey>  
[20:46] <popey> This bit is being covered by Brian Murray in his session at 21:00 UTC :)
[20:46] <popey>  
[20:46] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekKarmic/BugReport
[20:47] <popey> So that's the end of the content that I'd prepared, I'm happy to try to answer any questions
[20:47] <popey> 20:46:39 < Solarion> QUESTION: does bribing devs with hardware and beer help?
[20:47] <popey> Y'know, I'd say from my experience the best things are..
[20:47] <popey> a) being polite and staying polite
[20:48] <popey> it's frustrating when nobody looks at your bug (or so it seems) or nobody is replying, but on the whole developers don't deliberately ignore your bugs, they're just prioritising their work
[20:48] <popey> b) providing the debug information that the developer asks for
[20:49] <popey> there are pages about debugging I linked to earlier, and the detail you get can greatly reduce the amount of time a developer spends analyzing your bug
[20:49] <popey> so it makes sense to add it if you can
[20:50] <popey> 20:47:56 < openweek5> Question: I am listening to your dulcet tones on one of your podcasts - i close the lid of my laptop  carry to kitchen- to raid fridge for beer - and not only does your p/cast stop but on reopening the lid - just  grey - no combination of key strokes responds - only the power button?
[20:50] <popey> haha
[20:50] <popey> Personally I set gnome-power-manager to just "blank screen" when I close the lid, that way when carrying my closed laptop I can continue to listen to myself all around the house
[20:51] <popey> 20:48:12 < Solarion> QUESTION: could there be some sort of reward system for ubuntu devs and MoTUs to encrouage bug-fixing?
[20:51] <popey> Ask them.. I refer you to one of my first lines... "I'm not a developer"
[20:52] <popey> Right I think that's me done for the evening, enjoy the rest of open week!
[20:53] <jcastro> thanks alan!
[20:54] <jcastro> we'll start back up in 6 minutes
[20:59] <jcastro> ok, time for the next session
[20:59] <jcastro> this time it's with the ubuntu bugmaster
[20:59] <jcastro> brian murray
[20:59] <jcastro> take it away bdmurray!
[21:00] <bdmurray> Hi!  So I'm here to talk about to how to report bugs about Ubuntu as there are a couple of different ways you can do it.
[21:00] <bdmurray> Additionally, I'll cover how to make your bug report more likely to get fixed!
[21:01] <bdmurray> And that don't include bribery. ;-)
[21:01] <bdmurray> Let's start of by talking about what exactly constitutes a bug.
[21:01] <bdmurray> In computer software it is an error or a flaw that causes it to behave in ways for which it wasn't designed.
[21:02] <bdmurray> Some of these can result in crashes, others may have a subtle effect on functionality, others can be spelling errors.
[21:02] <bdmurray> By reporting these issues you can help to make Ubuntu even better than it already is.
[21:02] <bdmurray> Reported bugs are kept in Launchpad, the bug tracking system used by Ubuntu and quite a few other projects.
[21:02] <bdmurray> Let's look at a sample bug report - http://launchpad.net/bugs/410318.
[21:03] <bdmurray> There are four things here that I want to point out.
[21:03] <bdmurray> 1) The bug's title or summary is '
[21:03] <bdmurray> [i945gm] noticed "[XvMC] fail to init batch buffer" in log files'
[21:04] <bdmurray> 2) In the Affects table you'll see that this bug report affects 'xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu)' this is the package / application which with the bug is about.
[21:04] <bdmurray> 3) Bugs have an "Bug description" which is filled out when you are reporting a bug.
[21:05] <bdmurray> 4) You'll notice the first bug comment contains multiple attachments with supporting information about the bug.
[21:06] <bdmurray> So far I've talked a little about what a bug is and what the reports look like.  Are there any questions so far?
[21:06] <bdmurray> question - bdmurray: How did the attachments get there?
[21:07] <bdmurray> I'll be covering that shortly but they showed up because I reported the bug using an application on my Ubuntu system.
[21:08] <bdmurray> So how can we report bugs to Launchpad?
[21:08] <bdmurray> They can be reported via the web interface at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ after searching for a package.
[21:08] <bdmurray> For example, I searched for firefox and was returned the following results - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search?text=firefox.
[21:09] <bdmurray> Now I can file a bug about firefox-3.5, since that is the version I have, using the "Report a bug" button.
[21:09] <bdmurray> You start by filling out the summary which becomes the bug's tile.  After which you are asked for 'Futher information' which becomes the bug's description.
[21:09] <bdmurray> Both of which we saw earlier in the sample bug report.
[21:10] <bdmurray> The description should contain at a minimum the following -
[21:10] <bdmurray> 1) The release of Ubuntu that you found the bug in.
[21:10] <bdmurray> 2) The version of the package you found the bug in.
[21:10] <bdmurray> You can find that out using a command like 'apt-cache policy firefox-3.5'
[21:11] <bdmurray> 3) What you expected to happen.
[21:11] <bdmurray> and 4) What happened instead.
[21:11] <bdmurray> You also have the opportunity to add an attachment, or bug tags, to your bug when you are reporting it via the web interface by clicking "Extra options".
[21:12] <bdmurray> Back to Amaranth's question...
[21:12] <bdmurray> A better way to report a bug is using apport which is an automated problem report application included with Ubuntu.
[21:13] <bdmurray> The advantage to using apport is that it automatically collects information about the release of Ubuntu you are using and the version of the package / application that you are reporting the bug about.
[21:13] <bdmurray> Let's say that you have encountered a bug with Firefox.
[21:13] <bdmurray> You can use apport to report the bug by going to Firefox's "Help" menu and choosing "Report a Problem".
[21:13] <bdmurray> Apport will start collecting information about your bug and then open a new browser window where you enter the bug's summary / title and then enter the bug's description.
[21:14] <bdmurray> An example of a bug reported using the "Report a Problem" menu item is http://launchpad.net/bugs/463789.
[21:14] <bdmurray> Looking at that bug you'll see information in the description regarding the DistroRelease, the package and version, and kernel version among other things.
[21:15] <bdmurray> All of which was collected automatically for you by apport.
[21:15] <bdmurray> The "Report a Problem" functionality has been integrated into a lot of applications.
[21:15] <bdmurray> However, not every application has a help menu - take compiz for example.
[21:16] <bdmurray> For cases like that we have a command line utility 'ubuntu-bug' or 'apport-cli'.
[21:17] <bdmurray> For example I'd use 'ubuntu-bug compiz' to report a bug compiz.  This will call apport which will gather information for my bug report.
[21:18] <bdmurray> You can also use a process id as an arguement to ubuntu-bug to report a bug about a specific process.
[21:18] <bdmurray> Using apport is the preferred way to report bugs as they contain detailed information about the application and your system.
[21:19] <bdmurray> Additionally, there are package hooks for various packages, like the xserver-xorg-video-intel bug report I showed earlier.  These hooks will gather specific log files that will be useful for the developers.
[21:19] <bdmurray> Further information about reporting bugs can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs.
[21:20] <bdmurray> Now is good time for some questions - which I see we already have. ;-)
[21:20] <bdmurray> 13:09 < alyssum> QUESTION: How do you determine which package a bug affects?   What if you are not sure which one of several options?
[21:21] <bdmurray> I'll actually cover that shortly.
[21:22] <bdmurray> 13:16 < akgraner> QUESTION: what if everytime you use apport to file a bug you  get "closed b/c a package was out of date" and you just  updated/upgraded ?
[21:22] <bdmurray> That sounds like something that might happen if you were running the development release of Ubuntu.
[21:23] <bdmurray> Its possible that the mirror you are using is a bit behind the archives.
[21:23] <bdmurray> < lifer999> QUESTION: How do I ensure my bug is not a duplicate?
[21:24] <bdmurray> One thing to do is search the existing bug reports about the package you are going to file a bug about.
[21:24] <bdmurray> Additionally, Launchpad will recommend bugs that the bug you are reporting is a possibly a duplicate of.
[21:25] <bdmurray> Its also rather easy to mark a bug as a duplicate of another so if you aren't positive yours is a duplicate feel free to report it.
[21:26] <bdmurray> Even though another bug report is about not having sound in Ubuntu if you don't have the exact same hardware it is likely that your bug is not a duplicate of that one.
[21:27] <bdmurray> < brobostigon> QUESTION:Is there a cli app to use to report bugs,
[21:27] <bdmurray>                      especially on low end systems, with xorg, that cant deal
[21:27] <bdmurray>                      with heavy browsers.?
[21:27] <bdmurray> ubuntu-bug will use whatever browser you have installed
[21:28] <bdmurray> additionally it is possible to save a bug report for filing later from a different system
[21:28] <bdmurray> you'd use 'apport-cli -f -p <package name>' and then choose to "K: Keep report file for sending later or copying to somewhere else"
[21:31] <bdmurray> How can we make our bug reports more useful for the developers?
[21:32] <bdmurray> Choosing the right package or application the bug is about is critical.
[21:32] <bdmurray> If a bug does not have a package assigned to it is much less likely to get looked at by anyone let alone the developer of that application.
[21:32] <bdmurray> Some helpful hints for finding the proper package are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage.
[21:33] <bdmurray> n particular this page contains the names of packages that might be hard to discover.
[21:33] <bdmurray> it]
[21:33] <bdmurray> For example, bugs about the kernel in Karmic Koala should be reported about 'linux'.
[21:33] <bdmurray> Also feel free to join the #ubuntu-bugs channel if you need help identifying the proper package.
[21:34] <bdmurray> That is where members of the bug squad hang out and we'll be happy to help.
[21:34] <bdmurray> If you have already reported a bug about Ubuntu but didn't use apport to report it - fear not!
[21:34] <bdmurray> It is still possible to use apport to gather information for bugs already reported.
[21:34] <bdmurray> This can be done using the command 'apport-collect' and the number of the bug to which you want to add information.
[21:35] <bdmurray> An example of this can be found in http://launchpad.net/bugs/461343.
[21:35] <bdmurray> The reporter originally reported the bug about gst0.10-python but it looks more likely to be a sound driver bug so they were asked to run 'apport-collect -p alsa-base 461343'.
[21:35] <bdmurray> The -p was used in this case so information will be gathered about a different package, alsa-base, rather than the package the bug is filed about.
[21:36] <bdmurray> Generally you don't need that option and can just 'apport-collect' and the bug number.
[21:37] <bdmurray> So if you've previously reported a bug about Ubuntu go back and check to see if it still exists in Karmic.  If it doesn't close it! ;-)  If not use apport-collect to gather some more information about it.
[21:37] <bdmurray> And now some more questions
[21:38] <bdmurray> < openweek5> QUESTION: when does a problem change from *you've not it
[21:38] <bdmurray>                    Intalled / configured correctly, mate* to *yes, that does
[21:38] <bdmurray>                    appear to be like a bug, report it* ?
[21:39] <bdmurray> most packages don't require configuration so we err on the side of things being bugs until discovered otherwise
[21:39] <bdmurray> Are there any more questions?
[21:41] <bdmurray> < rtagger> QUESTION: If i know that the bug is fixed by adding 2 lines in
[21:41] <bdmurray>                  2 files, should I prepare a complete patch or better inform
[21:41] <bdmurray>                  about the files and lines inline?
[21:42] <bdmurray> A complete patch, as an attachment, would be better.  It is possible to flag attachments as patches which can then be searched for.  Additionally, that'll be much easier to apply than copying stuff out of a comment.
[21:43] <bdmurray> 13:41 < alyssum> QUESTION: What do we do if no one is responding to a bug we  reported (even though other people can confirm it)?
[21:44] <bdmurray> One thing that can help if the package is not only in Ubuntu - is forwarding the bug to the upstream developers.
[21:44] <bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream
[21:45] <bdmurray> After verifying the upstream version of the software is affected too of course!
[21:45] <bdmurray> 13:42 < nameiner> QUESTION: I have a problem with my battery not being  recognized after suspend. Which package is this most likely  related to?
[21:46] <bdmurray> I'd start at the highest level, likely gnome-power-manager if that is where you don't see the battery.
[21:46] <bdmurray> Moving on
[21:46] <bdmurray> An important part of a bug's life cycle is it entering the Confirmed status.
[21:47] <bdmurray> When a bug is Confirmed it means that someone has been able to recreate the bug or believes sufficient information has been included in the bug report for a developer to start working on it.
[21:47] <bdmurray> Any Launchpad user can confirm a bug report, but please don't confirm your own!
[21:47] <bdmurray> From a practical standpoint what this means is that you should include extremely detailed steps to recreate the bug in it's description so anyone, not just a developer, could confirm it.
[21:47] <bdmurray> Click here, do this, do that...
[21:48] <bdmurray> It is far better to have too much detail than not enough!
[21:48] <bdmurray> Some fairly simple things you can do to make your bug report easier for someone to confirm or triage are including a screenshot, via Print Screen, or creating a screencast, using gtk-recordmydesktop as an example.
[21:48] <bdmurray> An example of a bug with a screencast is http://launchpad.net/bugs/212425.
[21:48] <bdmurray> The screencast clearly shows how to recreate the problem which is very helpful.
[21:49] <bdmurray> One of the best ways to make your bug report more likely to be fixed is to follow the debugging procedures for the package or subsystem the bug is about!
[21:49] <bdmurray> These have been written by bug triagers or the developer of the software and following them will help you create a more detailed bug report.
[21:50] <bdmurray> You can find the list of debugging procedures at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures.
[21:50] <bdmurray> Okay, I got through the last bits I wanted to cover.
[21:50] <bdmurray> Are there any further questions?
[21:51] <bdmurray> Also regarding 13:41 < alyssum> QUESTION: What do we do if no one is responding to a bug we  reported (even though other people can confirm it)?
[21:52] <bdmurray> It can also help to bring the bug up in the #ubuntu-bugs channel or on the bugsquad mailing list.
[21:54] <bdmurray> 13:54 < nameiner> QUESTION: How long does it usually take till someone replies  to a bug report.
[21:55] <bdmurray> It really depends on the package the bug report is about.  Each package in Launchpad has separate subscriptions with different people subscribed to each one.
[21:56] <bdmurray> Okay, well that's all I have.  Thanks everyone!
[21:57] <bdmurray> And if need any help reporting a bug, or finding the package to report a bug on you can find members of the Ubuntu bugsquad in the #ubuntu-bugs IRC channel.
[21:58] <Amaranth> thanks bdmurray
[21:59] <czajkowski> Amaranth: can you set the topic?
[21:59] <czajkowski> please
[21:59] <Amaranth> next up is czajkowski with Running a FOSS event
[21:59] <czajkowski> thanks
[21:59] <czajkowski> Aloha, I'm Laura Czajkowski, I help to run the Ubuntu-ie (Ireland) LoCo. I started to run events 5 years ago at college for my computer society and have picked up some useful pieces of information which I've found helpful.
[21:59] <czajkowski> So firstly different types of events need varied amounts of preparation and organising, I'm going to try and cover and give you a few examples. Check lists, how to advertise them and just some general advice from my past events.
[22:00] <czajkowski> I'll go through some stuff and then take some questions.
[22:00] <czajkowski> It can be hard to come up with new events
[22:00] <czajkowski> and know what to run
[22:00] <czajkowski> Types of events:
[22:00] <czajkowski> Geeknics - Picnic for Geeks, take yourselves out of the server room and from behind the desk. This is great as it means your family and kids can come along and get more of a community spirit behind it. Pick a park get people to bring along food they can share, some parks you can have a BBQ, something different.
[22:00] <czajkowski> We have a standard monthly meet up in the pub, it can be anywhere, called a Pint of the Day. Just meet up, bring along a laptop and show something off you've seen or demo a new feature, great time now that karmic is out. On our mailing list anyone can post posting a date and time and a venue to go for a random PotD which is great for visiting LoCos so they can meet up with us.
[22:00] <czajkowski> Pub Quiz - to add a bit of fun to just going to the pub and make it a bit more geeky, you can have a lot of fun with this and come up with some crazy questions to out geek the person beside you.
[22:00] <czajkowski> you can hav e great fun with the questions
[22:01] <czajkowski> making them very geeky or just have some fun
[22:01] <czajkowski> Mark Shuttleworth is also known as 'sabdfl', what does this abbreviation stand for?
[22:01] <czajkowski> What does 'Ubuntu LoCo' stand for?
[22:01] <czajkowski> Ubuntu Community's manager name is: _______ _______
[22:01] <czajkowski> Demo/Small Talk - try and get a small room put aside, depending on size, libraries are great to offer a small reading room, and you could have lightning talks where members of the community pick a topic and just get up and give a 5 minuet talk  on it without the need for projectors
[22:01] <czajkowski> Larger Events
[22:01] <czajkowski> Barcamps -Would like to offer to help LoCos organise their own, I run www.ossbarcamp.com and would like to offer this domain to LoCos to run their own and get lots of these happening throughout the year. Shall come back to this.
[22:01] <czajkowski> Conferences - need to be sure you can get an audience to attend.
[22:02] <czajkowski> Advertising the Event:
[22:02] <czajkowski> So I've found the best way to get your event noticed, no matter how small or large it is, is to get the word out everywhere as many times as you can and in as many places. There are so many avenues for this so lots of choice and it might be an idea to give members of your community tasks to spread the work and also get them familiar with how to promote events.
[22:02] <czajkowski> identi.ca and twitter are great tools, if you have an # tag advertise this in advance so people know what to tag an event with or follow if they can't be there.
[22:02] <czajkowski> Mailing list and IRC are 2 of the avenues I heavily use to let people know about our events as I've found them very useful. If there are similar groups in your area or members belong to other groups get them to drop an email about your event.
[22:02] <czajkowski> Blogs - if you don't have access to getting your blog post up on the planet.Ubuntu ask someone would they post an article you've written. I'm sure others would like to hear about it and attend if they were holidaying or may even visit just for this event.
[22:03] <czajkowski> Podcasts - they're popping up everywhere and there are a lot of them out there that look for content so why not talk to them and get some coverage for your event.
[22:03] <czajkowski> Fossevents.org is another site I help to maintain and it has all oss/foss events on it so do add yours there. We've made it easier to submit events, and we're still working on maps, and ical feeds for LoCos
[22:03] <czajkowski> Media coverage - local and national papers, write to them and let them know what you are doing and why they should come and see what you guys are doing they may be interested, curious and only looking for an invitation to come along.
[22:03] <czajkowski> you get to meet media, if you go to events, not just oss ones, web conferences are a great way to meet more people and make the connections, they'll also help spread the word on your event
[22:04] <czajkowski> again this is just stuff I've come up with in the past
[22:04] <czajkowski> the list is no where complete but it may help new locos or old ones get some ideas
[22:04] <czajkowski>  
[22:05] <czajkowski> How to find a venue:
[22:05] <czajkowski>  
[22:05] <czajkowski> Will depend on your event and also size of audience. If you're near a college, they are the best avenue for help, small classrooms and large rooms if needed. Plus the added larger bonus of usually having a good internet connection which is ideal for running global jam sessions. They also usually won't charge as they want their students to learn more. Offer to give a demo on bug triaging to the students to get the colle
[22:05] <czajkowski>  
[22:05] <czajkowski> Hotels may have function rooms these could be used for larger more formal days of talks, try and get these sponsored, point out X number of people in there for the day, and they will most likely eat and drink in there
[22:05] <czajkowski>  
[22:05] <czajkowski> don't be afraid to ask them to sponsor some food or drinks
[22:05] <czajkowski> most will give you something, or at least a discount or deal
[22:06] <czajkowski> I've written all of these down and will post afterwards if it helps.
[22:06] <czajkowski> QUESTION: Who is a good point of contact when sending a note to the media to try and get coverage, what has worked for you?
[22:07] <czajkowski> well I first try looking up the journalists in IT in maybe the newspapers or online jounrnals and getting a name
[22:07] <czajkowski> if you have a name it's easier to follow up on and get feedback
[22:07] <czajkowski> maybe they don't know about oss or you didn't give enough information in the opening letter to get their interest
[22:08] <czajkowski>  
[22:08] <czajkowski> What do to once it's been organised:
[22:08] <czajkowski>  
[22:08] <czajkowski> this is more of a check list
[22:09] <czajkowski> if you['ve never ran a large event , don't worry, mistakes will happen, but as long as people have  agood day out, it'll be worth it
[22:09] <czajkowski> Once you have the date and venue organised keep the reminders going, topic in irc channel, your loco website, create a wiki page for you events so you can keep track of them, and afterwards write up a list of things you would change or notes you've made from running the event.
[22:09] <czajkowski> Remember all events can be improved on, there is no 1st event going to ever run 100% smoothly. Don't panic if something goes wrong. Have a back up plan, a back up speaker or someone you can rely on to get up and demo or talk about a topic if you need to fill a slot or while you wait on a speaker to arrive.
[22:09] <czajkowski>  
[22:09] <czajkowski> When running a larger event ( anything that involves more than going to the pub) things you need to do:
[22:09] <czajkowski> like tonight I made a list
[22:09] <czajkowski> it's what keeps me from going insane
[22:09] <czajkowski> :)
[22:09] <czajkowski> I'm a bit of a list fanatic, it's what works for me. Items get written down and crossed off literally! A new list is made and I work through what needs to be done. I like organising, that's me. I'm a tad bit obsessive about some things, I'll have my list done up, and saved somewhere online that I can check against to make sure things are being done, when they are done, they are moved elsewhere in the list to Completed 
[22:10] <czajkowski> find something that works for you.
[22:10] <czajkowski> o some simple check lists, they may seem very simple and common sense, but eh don't take simple things and common sense for granted when organising events!
[22:10] <czajkowski> don't take on the whole event on your own
[22:10] <czajkowski> we're a community
[22:10] <czajkowski> lets put us to work and there will be members in your loco who excel at posters or writing articles
[22:11] <czajkowski> uwe these people
[22:11] <czajkowski> *use
[22:11] <czajkowski>  Meet regularly! Email is not enough.
[22:11] <czajkowski> Face to face meet ups are the only way, as you bounce ideas off one and another and come up with better ideas/solutions to problems.
[22:11] <czajkowski> because in the past I've had the experience of this
[22:11] <czajkowski> A useful tool I've learnt to do is if you do email people concerning the event, CC someone else on the committee so that if you get a date/time/venue or some detail off, there is hope that someone else will spot it and can be rectified, otherwise you could be organising something for September when the event locations organiser thinks it's in Augus
[22:12] <czajkowski> which you can imagine leads to lots of heart failures :)
[22:12] <czajkowski>  
[22:12] <czajkowski> Advertise the event in as many locations as you can. Again depending on the event, but I would say hit colleges first, as many lectures, students may be interested, bonus if your conference is also located on the grounds, you can get college/staff mailing lists.
[22:12] <czajkowski>  
[22:12] <czajkowski> Final run up to the event, go through your check list, which should consist of a large Done/Completed list and there really should be no “To Do's ” left anywhere on it :)
[22:12] <czajkowski> Have this done a week before hand to allow for things just cropping up!
[22:13] <czajkowski> these would be for events other than pub/geeknics
[22:13] <czajkowski>  
[22:13] <czajkowski> Have the presenting laptop all set up with a separate login with all of the presentations on it.
[22:13] <czajkowski>  
[22:13] <czajkowski> Sticky point, dealing with speakers can sometimes be a lot of hassle, get all speakers to use the one laptop, it's set up and works with the projector. Unplugging and plugging in another one causes unnecessary time wasting for all those involved
[22:13] <czajkowski>  
[22:13] <czajkowski> Get all presentations a week in advance, I asked for them 2 days in advance and got all bar 2, one of which as the guy was travelling and I knew this. The other I got on the day of the event. In future I'd ask for them a week in advance, and if you don't get it, pull the person. Simple as, if one person can do it, so can everyone.
[22:13] <czajkowski>  
[22:14] <czajkowski> nothing worse than being in a talk and wanting to leave to go to the next one as it's run over
[22:14] <czajkowski> Have a person sitting in the audience who will hold up a car with 10 minutes, 5 minutes and 1 minutes to go. It is necessary to keep time under control, and again some speakers will get the knickers in a twist at being told to shut up and get off the stage as the next speaker is due on.
[22:14] <czajkowski> I've missed a few talks this way!
[22:14] <czajkowski> If you are renting a venue give it back to the organisation the way you got it. It sounds simple, but you'd be amazed the way people leave their rubbish behind. Make sure everyone leaves with you, locks up and goes with you. If you leave folks behind you have no way of making sure the place is locked up and left in the correct order.
[22:14] <czajkowski>  
[22:14] <czajkowski> Sit back and enjoy the event. As I said, this is not a complete list, it's some thoughts and what's worked in the past for me, or I've learnt from the past events
[22:14] <czajkowski> If anyone wants any help pm me or drop me an email czajkowski@ubuntu.com I'll try and help and give you some feedback.
[22:14] <czajkowski> If LoCos are interested I'd love to see www.LoCo.ossbarcamp.com happen.
[22:15] <czajkowski> Sorry I know I covered a lot
[22:15] <czajkowski> but ready if anyone has any questions
[22:16] <czajkowski> I have found by going to other groups events they'll promote mine. so going to a php event , they'll send a mail to their list about our event
[22:16] <czajkowski> < akgraner> QUESTION:  What are the best tips and who/what corporate groups do you tend to seek funding from 1st
[22:16] <czajkowski> yeah this can be the tricky one
[22:17] <czajkowski> I've found that again getting a name, rather than info@company name to be wise
[22:17] <czajkowski> the HR department I've rang on ocassions and asked them who would be best to contact and I usally get marketing and they will usually be very helpful
[22:17] <czajkowski> rashsystems> did www.LoCo.ossbarcamp.com not work for anyone else?
[22:18] <czajkowski> so I'd like to offer to help LoCos run their own ossbarcamp
[22:18] <czajkowski> the site is there
[22:18] <czajkowski> and would be great to see say northcarolina.ossbarcamp.com or rome.ossbarcamp.com take place
[22:19] <czajkowski> I find if you name an event about a product/os it may not help when trying to get sponsorship
[22:19] <czajkowski> the idea of getting presenters presentations before hand is to save time between switching pc's and set uo
[22:19] <czajkowski> *up
[22:19] <czajkowski> try and have them all on one desktop
[22:19] <czajkowski> in a folder so they can just launch them
[22:20] <czajkowski> 22:18 < aim1159> QUESTION: in russia we faced with the problem - people does not want to meet "unknown strangers" even if they do the same thing - wowing about ubuntu. How to deal  with such a problem?
[22:20] <czajkowski> so how do you get people to come along
[22:20] <czajkowski> we held out release party last week and a few showed up who'd never been active on irc or mailing lists
[22:21] <czajkowski> they came because we did 2 events 1- dinner and 2 pub
[22:21] <czajkowski> it's to try and find an event your loco will enjoy, not everyone wants to go to a pub
[22:21] <czajkowski> so a pub quiz might be a way of getting people involved and also chatting to one another
[22:21] <czajkowski> tonyyarusso> QUESTION:  Our latest event had a much worse male:female ratio than our group as a whole does.  Any idea why this may be and how to rectify it in the future?
[22:22] <czajkowski> well that's going to depend on how many are active in your loco
[22:22] <czajkowski> the event could be a deciding factor
[22:22] <czajkowski> try to mix and match events
[22:22] <czajkowski> don't stick to the same one
[22:22] <czajkowski> try adn cater for your're loco
[22:23] <czajkowski> I've started to use doodle.com
[22:23] <czajkowski> create a poll
[22:23] <czajkowski> put up sugestions on events
[22:23] <czajkowski> 1 geeknic
[22:23] <czajkowski> 2 quiz
[22:23] <czajkowski> 3 talk
[22:23] <czajkowski> let your loco decide
[22:23] <czajkowski> get them participating
[22:23] <czajkowski> it also means more involvement
[22:24] <czajkowski>  
[22:25] <czajkowski> re sponsorship make sure you thank them after the event
[22:25] <czajkowski> send them photos
[22:25] <czajkowski> and a thank you card
[22:25] <czajkowski> they'll remember that the next time or even be willing to approach you to sponsor you again
[22:26] <czajkowski> 22:25 < akgraner> QUESTION:  Do you find if people have owner in planning the event then they are more likely to promote and encourage attendance?  So would handing out specific  tasks be useful?
[22:26] <czajkowski> for me I like to orgnaise
[22:26] <czajkowski> but I know the loco needs more than my skill set
[22:26] <czajkowski> I cannot do everything
[22:26] <czajkowski> there are others in the loco who can do other work and we need them
[22:27] <czajkowski> so you really should be encouraging your members to step up and help
[22:27] <czajkowski>  
[22:27] <czajkowski> they may find it daunting, so I'd suggest pairing them up.  buddy system
[22:28] <czajkowski> there is no such thing as a bad orgnaiser!!!
[22:28] <czajkowski> you need attendees
[22:28] <czajkowski> and with that they need to participate
[22:28] <czajkowski> so try a few types
[22:29] <czajkowski> simple non geeky event ye can do as a goup, go bowing/catch a game
[22:29] <czajkowski> cinema - find a nerdy movie and go :) in costume
[22:29] <czajkowski> loads of choices
[22:29] <czajkowski> events dont have to be release partys the whole time :)
[22:30] <czajkowski>  
[22:31] <czajkowski> after an event ,ask you loco membembers what they'd change, date/venue/time
[22:31] <czajkowski>   
[22:32] <czajkowski> meant to say, when you're advertising your event, if you don't have your blog on the planet, ask someone to post your article for you, before and after the event, let others know what you['re doing, it give people ideas on what they can do too
[22:33] <czajkowski>  
[22:33] <czajkowski> many people have families and weekend times are hard to give up
[22:33] <czajkowski> try holding events where families can come along
[22:34] <czajkowski> our geeknics were a great success here, wives came along with the kids and met others
[22:34] <czajkowski>  
[22:34] <czajkowski> any other questions?
[22:35] <czajkowski>  
[22:35] <czajkowski> Are any locos planning any specific events, they'd like to ask for advice on?
[22:35] <czajkowski>   
[22:35] <czajkowski> < saffronlee> QUESTION: how do you make meetings more firendly for women?
[22:37] <czajkowski> Well I'm a female and never really had an issue with events being friendly. But, perhaps not every male or female wants to go to a pub the whole time, so vary your event. Ask the members in your loco what they would like to do
[22:38] <czajkowski>  
[22:38] <czajkowski>  Michelle_Qimo> QUESTION:  Anything you've done that you would advise *against*?
[22:38] <czajkowski> in 5 years doing this....
[22:38] <czajkowski> a lot!
[22:39] <czajkowski> don't go out the night before if I'm getting up at 8am to run  a conferenfce!!
[22:39] <czajkowski>  
[22:39] <czajkowski> double check the venue with the venue owners, don't rely on someone else saying it's done
[22:39] <czajkowski> we lost a large venue and 3 speakers one year
[22:40] <czajkowski>  
[22:40] <czajkowski> Have boot up cds on standby in case the machines you're using fails
[22:40] <czajkowski>  
[22:41] <czajkowski>  < Michelle_Qimo> we're working on a spouses group down here - so all the wives/partners/etc. feel safe
[22:41] <czajkowski> that's a great idea
[22:42] <czajkowski> and it worked well when the wives/partnes came to geeknic they met fellow non techy people and enjoyed a nice afternoon - remember to inculde the extended loco
[22:42] <czajkowski>   
[22:42] <czajkowski> 2:41 < tonyyarusso> SUGGESTION:  If running an installfest, have a local mirror of the package repositories - much less waiting for downloads, more doing!  (Learned from the  difference between our Jaunty and Karmic events)
[22:42] <czajkowski> great idea
[22:43] <czajkowski> also if runing an event, make sure there are no planned outtages :~(
[22:43] <czajkowski> ideally I like to run my events in a college
[22:43] <czajkowski> great size rooms
[22:43] <czajkowski> students to take part and become part of the loco
[22:43] <czajkowski> great internet bandwidth
[22:44] <czajkowski>  
[22:44] <czajkowski> as I'd never done this before I didnt know what to expect  so I wrote it all up as I was afraid I'd not be able to explain it http://cypher.skynet.ie/Openweek/
[22:45] <czajkowski>  
[22:45] <czajkowski> I'll send a mail out later on with it also for loco members and also again offer if locos want to run an ossbarcamp
[22:46] <czajkowski>  
[22:47] <czajkowski> remember do  enjoy any event no matter how small or big,
[22:47] <czajkowski> < tonyyarusso> QUESTION:  What forms of advertisement seem to have the best ROI?
[22:47] <czajkowski> IRC
[22:47] <czajkowski> Mailing lists
[22:47] <czajkowski> blogs - my blog is on a few plannets
[22:47] <czajkowski> and then I also poke the national papers
[22:47] <czajkowski> and the online e-magazines
[22:47] <czajkowski> somethimes they will cover events
[22:47] <czajkowski> other times no
[22:48] <czajkowski> but if I let them know about it, there is a higher chance
[22:48] <czajkowski> I also mail all of the 3rd level colleges and let their IT departments know about an event and if they have a computer society
[22:48] <czajkowski>  
[22:48] <czajkowski> thats how I got involved in this.
[22:49] <czajkowski> also
[22:49] <czajkowski> fossevents.org
[22:49] <czajkowski> has a lot of oss events on it
[22:49] <czajkowski> postering hasn't worked as well as I thought it would have worked
[22:49] <czajkowski> perhaps there are too many out there over here
[22:49] <czajkowski> but again
[22:50] <czajkowski> try it for your area
[22:50] <czajkowski> podcasts are also good, local and international ones (ubuntu-uk podcast)
[22:51] <czajkowski> think that's it folks
[22:51] <czajkowski> thanks for coming :)
[22:51] <czajkowski> http://cypher.skynet.ie/Openweek/ link to notes
[22:57] <jcastro> ok
[22:57] <jcastro> thanks everyone for participating
[22:57] <jcastro> we'll reconvene tomorrow at 1500UTC!
[22:57] <MenZa> huzzah
[22:57] <akgraner> woot woot woot...
[22:57] <akgraner> :-)
[22:57] <jcastro> I hope everyone had a good time today!
[22:59] <effie_jayx> jcastro:  we did
[22:59] <effie_jayx> :D
[23:00] <Xiella> awesome stuff today
[23:00] <neoandersen> what are you teaching here?
[23:01] <MenZa> neoandersen: Nothing currently. See /topic :)
[23:02] <Xubuntus_> Hello!
[23:03] <Xubuntus_> Any idea how to setup Grub 2 with windows on the second harddrive? (I knew how to with Grub 0.xx).
[23:04] <neoandersen> I don't when 15 00 UTC is...
[23:07] <Sparckus> same as GMT
[23:07] <Sparckus> UK time
[23:07] <LutraMan> Hey, I'm having trouble installing ubuntu 9.10 on my computer, anyone can help?
[23:07] <tonyyarusso> Sparckus: Except that GMT I think does DST, and UTC does not, right?  (Same right now, but not always true)
[23:07] <joaopinto> LutraMan, the support channel is #ubuntu
[23:08] <tonyyarusso> LutraMan: #ubuntu would be better for that
[23:09] <Sparckus> UK changes to BST April (i think ) to october
[23:09] <Sparckus> GMT at the moment
[23:09] <ebel> tonyyarusso: GMT doesn't have DST./
[23:09] <Sparckus> anyways gtg thanks to all the speakers :) was good
[23:10] <tonyyarusso> ebel: no?  Allrighty.  but "UK time" still does at least.
[23:10] <ebel> neoandersen: you can use http://www.timeanddate.com/ to figure out what time it is for you in your local time.
[23:11] <ebel> tonyyarusso: yeah. The UK changes timezones between GMT (which is UTC+0) and BST (which is UTC+1 (or -1, can't remember))
[23:11] <tonyyarusso> ebel: +1
[23:11] <MenZa> +1, yeah.
[23:11] <MenZa> which means, it's currently 11:11pm in the UK
[23:11] <ebel> otherwise things like 01:30:00 GMT might refer to 2 points in time when the clocks change
[23:12] <ebel> But "01:30:00 UK time" can refer to 2 points in time.
[23:12] <jcastro> ausimage,  thanks for doing the logs!
[23:12] <akgraner> there is this link for conversions http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html
[23:13] <akgraner> and this one too  http://www.scc-ares-races.org/utcchart.html
[23:14] <ebel> You can also enter "date -u" in the command line and it'll give you the time in UTC.
[23:14] <ebel> you can compare this to the normal output of "date" to figure out what time it is.
[23:14]  * Amaranth updates wiki with logs for the last two sessions
[23:14] <junius_> HI need some help
[23:14] <junius_> anyone there?
[23:15] <junius_> anyone?
[23:15] <SoftwareExplorer>  junius: #Ubuntu is a good place to get help
[23:16] <junius_> no one's replying there
[23:16] <junius_> :(
[23:17] <SoftwareExplorer> I see
[23:18] <popey> they are now
[23:23] <neoandersen> ebel: Now here is 09:23pm then it seems it will be tomorrow: (Brazil - Distrito Federal)	Monday, November 2, 2009 at 1:00:00 PM	UTC-2 hours
[23:24] <neoandersen> ebel: november 3...
[23:28] <Amaranth> Alright, logs posted
[23:28] <Amaranth> At least for the last 3 events, didn't check the earlier ones
[23:28] <Amaranth> hmm, unless my browser decided to die...
[23:35] <gregdicristofaro> hello,  I had a question that I was wondering if someone could answer for me.  I am a very new user of ubuntu, and I had installed 9.04.  Through that version, I had gotten CUPS to work allowing me to print from my macbook pro to the printer connected to the ubuntu box.  When I installed 9.10, I could no longer get CUPS to work.  When 9.10 installed, it asked me if I wished to replace my CUPS config file, is th
[23:55] <tonyyarusso> gregdicristofaro: #ubuntu is the support channel, which means you're more likely to get an answer there.