[00:27] RenatoSilva: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth#Why%20is%20the%20default%20desktop%20in%20Ubuntu%20BROWN? for you answer about brown. Essentially, it has to do about being comforting... I guess it could also be argued that kind of like orange, it's supposed to help with productivity, IIRC. [00:27] Just read that before you pasted [00:27] as for GDM, I think you're supposed to be able to change the colors and wallpaper and everything by changing the theme for the 'gdm' user. [00:28] kind of late, yes :) [00:28] can't find any gdm customization option anymore [00:32] the gdm options were totally reduced to a single option of automatically loggin in [00:32] * RenatoSilva can't get rid ot the brown login screen [00:33] RenatoSilva, this is because gdm has been pretty much been rewritten [00:33] I haven't tried personally, but perhaps if you look at this page, it explains how to do the customizations now : http://www.ubuntumini.com/2009/09/hack-karmics-gdm-login-screen.html [00:34] cyphermox, frankly It's not a real answer - users don't care about it being rewritten, just about not being able to configure it as before.. I've had a discussion about it today... and yesterday.. and few days ago.. [00:35] so, file a bug, wishlist, with the configuration you want to be able to make - and *why*. [00:37] lifeless, so the current gdmsetup is considered done? [00:37] kklimonda: I don't know. [00:37] But I don't recall hearing about any major planned work. [00:38] kklimonda: 'done' for karmic, I'm hoping that something happens to it for lucid :) [00:39] Well I guess that the answer to *why* is pretty obvious [00:39] RenatoSilva: no, its not. [00:39] for you it seems [00:40] RenatoSilva: if it was obvious, I would know. I don't, so its not obvious enough that I know; and I'm fairly representative of Ubuntu developers, I think. [00:41] lifeless: system > admin > login screen. Before karmic it was full of options that *users* were using. In Karmic, they all were reduced to a single one. Users of those options like me will obviously miss them [00:41] RenatoSilva: thats not a reason to have the options [00:42] RenatoSilva: what value did they offer, was it worth the cost of the options - both code and confusion for other users [00:42] etc [00:42] lifeless, the most common complain I remember was that in 9.10 there is a list of users instead of simple dialog for usename [00:42] kklimonda: there is 'other', where you can type in the username [00:42] then the inability to change background [00:43] lifeless, sure - but they don't want list at all [00:43] kklimonda: You don't need to convince me, you need to make the case, either in a bug or on the list [00:43] RenatoSilva, at the very least this gives (I think) an opportunity to clean up the GDM config. and make it better.. hence why if you open a bug and explain which things you would like to be able to customize it would be immensely useful for developers to make them available if they are often requested [00:43] lifeless, I'm against it [00:43] ;) [00:43] kklimonda: particulary, I don't want some users to be displayed there [00:44] kkilmonda, how you can change the background: see above for my link :) [00:44] but I've dealt with a lot of complains in the last few days about it [00:45] cyphermox, I know how to change it, I even believe that the gdmsetup isn't needed. But other users don't think like that and I've run out of arguments to defend the current gdmsetup ;) [00:45] I wonder wherer my gdm theme is still in the system, but unused [00:45] * whether [00:47] the original way or simpler, I think it should allow customization of the login screen, at least because of the brown color [00:47] RenatoSilva, why? [00:48] how can you tell a user if he does not like the brown thing he can "change it easily" when in fact the login screen will still keep brown? [00:48] * RenatoSilva is a sample user [00:49] RenatoSilva, but it's still an option - just not though the gui [00:49] RenatoSilva, if the way to customize the GDM look was to show up the usual gnome-appearance-properties GUI when you click a button, would that make you more comfortable? [00:49] kklimonda: remember that ubuntu is form humam beings [00:50] RenatoSilva, the question is how much customization is "enough" for human beings and where should we draw the line [00:52] my point is: don't tell the user he can get rid of the brown when in fact he can't (the "human" users) [00:53] RenatoSilva, do we tell that? [00:53] (seriously, I don't keep tabs on visual side of development :) ) [00:53] * kklimonda don't even change wallpaper [00:54] when the user is chaning the theme in gnome-appearance-properties , he's not changing some specific techincal details about the ui. He just wants to change "the look", and that's abstract. So the login screen should be included in the "change look" option, whatever it is (gnome-appearance-properties or another application/meny) [00:55] * menu [00:55] RenatoSilva, but he's changing the look for the logged in user [00:58] I believe regular users may not be aware of that, I believe often they just want to get rid of the brown [00:59] and ubuntu should allow getting rid of the brown [00:59] RenatoSilva, what I have in mind is that users really dedicated to changing the looks of their system are going to dig as deep as needed (based on amount of work needed to change various visual settings in Windows) and the rest won't care enough... I know, "Linux is about customization" but I don't believe this slogan (just like "Linux runs on any hardware") [01:00] RenatoSilva, the question is - Do we have enough data to support the thesis "the just want to get rid of the brown" [01:01] they* [01:01] anyhow, I think it was not good to remove gdm customization *completely* [01:02] RenatoSilva, it's still there - just not though cluttered user interface [01:02] for the majority of people, it may as well be removed [01:02] RenatoSilva: it wasn't removed, nobody ever wrote it for the completely new gdm [01:02] it's certainly not obvious how to change it [01:03] but of course, that's not how users think about it ;) [01:03] ajmitch, give uf.o few days and they will create a script that does it for users ;) [01:03] JanC: customization of the login screen was removed completely [01:03] RenatoSilva, it wasn't ported [01:03] JanC: how many users would know or care that gdm had been rewritten? :) [01:03] JanC: not easily available if you prefer [01:03] RenatoSilva, the new gdm is more or less complete rewrite of the old gdm and gdmsetup just wasn't rewritten [01:04] I think it would be best to add a tab to the "appearances" dialog (only visible for users of group admin) to customize some basic things [01:04] JanC: that's a nice idea [01:04] as I mentioned earlier, just throwing this in the air in case: would it make people feel more comfortable with customizing the GDM look and feel if there was a button in the new gdmsetup, for example, to start a gnome-appearance-properties instance as the gdm user? ;) [01:05] cyphermox: that dialog has too many options that aren't useful in the context of gdm [01:05] cyphermox: it'd help, though it'd need to be trimmed down a lot to not confuse [01:05] cyphermox, I don't like it - looks like a hack [01:06] ajmitch, totally agree that there's too much stuff there though [01:07] why can't we just run the old version of gdm setup without those steps mentioned in the article? [01:07] gdm was replaced [01:07] its not the old gdm [01:08] nothing was deliberately *removed*, it just was not *added back in* [01:08] the old version of gdm doesn't do the xsplash stuff & various bits & pieces [01:09] * ajmitch doesn't really follow along with what happens in the boot process, so can't say what those bits are [01:09] * RenatoSilva didn't understand that article, will the steps make the old gdm options appear somehow? [01:10] RenatoSilva: no, it shows the "Appearances" dialog for the gdm user, as the new GDM uses standard GNOME/Gtk theming now [01:11] so no more separate theme format etc. [01:12] JanC: and does the "Appearances" dialog allow all the same options from the old gdm options? [01:15] it's only about the visual properties, and it's a "hack" (not really meant for Joe Enduser) anyway [01:15] * RenatoSilva still does not understand [01:16] RenatoSilva: it's exactly the same as the "appearances" dialog for your own user [01:16] let me try, be right back [02:03] hi all [02:04] JanC: better than nothing, we still get the brown background [02:17] You actually can't change much of gdm anymore [02:18] It's got a gnome-panel with applets on it, a background image, and a GTK+ widget showing the user list [02:18] It's not technically possible to do much to it outside of changing the GTK+ theme [02:18] I wonder if I can remove the user list, and change the nbackground somehow [02:19] sudo -u gdm dbus-launch gconf-editor [02:19] there is something in there for removing the user list [02:19] sudo -u gdm dbus-launch gnome-appearance-properties [02:19] that'll let you change the background and gtk theme [02:21] brb [03:09] setting '/apps/gdm/simple-greeter/disable_user_list' to 'true' for user 'gdm' supposedly removes the user list [03:13] thanks, brb [03:14] what is dbus-daemon and why it is needed in the above commands Amaranth [03:15] RenatoSilva: dbus-launch [03:15] sorry, dbus-launch [03:15] and it makes sure gconfd-2 gets launched for the gdm user so you can actually edit settings [03:19] brb [03:19] Amaranth: unfortunately, it also loads other stuff that you don't need, and doesn't unload anything--at least, last time I tried... ;-) [03:33] Is it possible to convert ubuntu desktop to the netbook remix version without having to format and everything? [03:35] the option in gconf-editor is not saved when you exit the app [03:36] and you can change the background, but the default one is shown after logging in, as a splash screen [03:37] I suggest adding backgrund change (including the spash screen) and Gnome theme change in the appearance preferences [03:38] maybe, when you select a user theme and you have admin rights, then there should be a check box like "apply this theme also for the login screen" [03:43] That wouldn't be good, the gdm theme needs special consideration [03:43] that which [03:43] and since the widget set is static you can do tricks in gtk themes that would break something in your normal desktop [03:46] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ needs creating an account. No OpenID either :( [03:48] anyway, something should change, the login screen should be considerably mutable [04:02] RenatoSilva: if you have a Launchpad account, then you have an OpenID too [04:04] of course, I mean brainstorm does not let you loggin in with that OpenID though [04:04] huh? [04:04] oh right, they use the QA logins IIRC [04:04] weird! [04:05] brainstorm x LP bugs and blue prints are weird you know [04:05] s/e p/ep [04:06] I think brainstorm was designed before LP had OpenID [04:06] hopefully, a future version will implement it ;) [04:33] bug 470026 [04:33] Launchpad bug 470026 in ubuntu "Users should be able to change the brown look of login screen in Karmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470026 [04:43] bug 470008 ... I want this in Karmic, but people are saying its too big of a fix :P [04:43] Launchpad bug 470008 in gnome-control-center "The Custom option in "Visual Effects" tab of Appearance Preferences should be shown even if simple-ccsm is not installed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470008 [05:06] eboyjr: s/fix/change/ [05:06] It's not a bug, it's a feature request :P [05:07] in LP, bugs can be feature requests (Wishlist importantce) [05:07] RenatoSilva: Right but there is still a difference [05:07] eboyjr: also you shouldn't confirm your own bugs [05:08] eboyjr: a second person should instead [05:08] eboyjr: so that developers can know that the bug is valid, because it was reproduced by more than one person [05:09] Amaranth, Alright. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix should be changed to not say: Assign the bug to "Nobody", and the status to "Confirmed". At this point, seek out a developer to review your patch for inclusion in the next upload of the package. [05:09] * RenatoSilva registered the bug 470053 [05:09] Launchpad bug 470053 in ubuntu "Option for disabling user list of login screen in Karmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470053 [05:11] eboyjr: not sure, but isn't it about downgrading to confirmed status? [05:14] iono [05:17] gtg === bjf is now known as bjf-afk [07:43] mvo: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amaranth/compiz/no_wrapper [07:44] hi, btw :P [07:47] hey Amaranth [07:48] Amaranth: cool! let me have a look? have you measured how much startup time this buys us? [07:48] mvo: hard to measure [07:49] my startup times are inconsistent [07:49] * mvo nod [07:49] I know compiz starts faster even with a warm cache [07:49] just eyeballing it [07:50] nice and smaller than I thought [07:50] yeah, compiz already does most of the checks [07:51] sounds like the first branch to merge when lucid opens [07:51] :) [07:52] I think it actually does a better job of doing the texture checks too [07:53] Should make sure we never see the white screen (improperly installed driver) or the black windows (texture larger than size limit) [07:54] Good morning [07:55] mvo: It also does a better job of telling you what went wrong because compiz is actually fairly detailed about things that make it fail :) [07:56] Amaranth: sweet. do you think its stable enough to just stick into the compiz PPA ? a lot of people run this, it will ensure some testing/exporure [07:57] mvo: did you follow the discussion with slangasek about bug 465619 ? [07:57] Launchpad bug 465619 in update-manager "apport enabled after a distribution upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/465619 [07:58] mvo: he uploaded a fix straight to -updates; could you merge this into the proposed branch and reupload? [07:58] (with -v again, please) [07:58] pitti: yes, I can do that [07:59] thanks; accepting the -updates one then [07:59] pitti: a proper fix is in trunk/ but the minimal one is sufficient [07:59] pitti: thanks [07:59] mvo: any idea how we can fix this for people who already upgraded? [08:00] pitti: not a straightforward one, grep "enabling apport" /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log is my best one currently [08:00] I guess I'd need to upload a hack to apport to disable it in the conffile again [08:00] pitti: if we want to be fancy, compare the debug timestamp to the mtime [08:00] mvo: oh, that grep sounds good [08:01] logging.debug("enabling apport") [08:01] that is the exact line [08:06] mvo: btw, if we clear out the blacklist for lucid compiz will only launch one shell (compiz-decorator) [08:09] Amaranth, are you a compiz dev? [08:09] eboyjr: yeah [08:10] That's really cool [08:27] morning [08:56] hey there [09:00] salut seb128 [09:00] lut baptistemm [09:01] weird, when nautilus is running I only see the desktop wallpaper, not the panel and applications ... [09:03] hello seb128 :) [09:04] lut didrocks [09:06] hello seb128, baptistemm and didrocks [09:07] lut huats [09:07] hey slomo_ chrisccoulson njpatel [09:08] hey seb128 [09:08] how are you? [09:08] hey seb128, hey chrisccoulson [09:08] had a nice weekend? [09:08] hey pitti [09:08] hey pitti [09:08] chrisccoulson, ok, a bit stressed by the number of ***** bug emails [09:08] salut les frenchies [09:08] got over a thousand of those during the weekend [09:09] seb128 - ouch, that's a lot ;) [09:09] spent 2 hours yesterday and 2 hours saturday cleaning to not spend my day today on that [09:09] yeah, i noticed you touched a few yesterday. [09:10] seb128: karmic bug reports? [09:10] sabdfl, new bugs or comment on existing bugs after karmic yes [09:10] the firehose, huh [09:11] i need to spend some more timing doing bug triage, but my weekend was already quite busy [09:11] I wish we would spend the lucid cycle stabilizing things [09:11] so many annoyed users by things that should be working and doesn't [09:12] * pitti scares people with http://www.piware.de/2009/11/hello-ween/ [09:13] seb128: we plan to :) [09:13] lol [09:13] pitti - is it safe to click on from work? ;) [09:13] pitti, I'm waiting for uds to see how much tractions we get for new features too [09:13] (before i click on it with my boss hanging around) [09:14] chrisccoulson, it's an halloween decoration [09:14] safe-for-work [09:14] hey mvo [09:14] pitti, you'd have drawn a panda in the pumpkin :) [09:14] had a good weekend? [09:14] hey seb128! [09:14] seb128: yes :) [09:15] heh:) [09:16] chrisccoulson: yes :) [09:57] \o/ I managed to bring my bug email backlog to 0 [09:57] congrats seb128 :) [09:58] ok, now time to start on some srus [09:58] that was quick! [09:58] chrisccoulson, thanks [09:59] pitti, if you need any more informations for the usb stick bug do not hesitate :) [09:59] huats: still catching up on over-weekend SRU and bug mail; I'll get to it [09:59] huats: will probably faster to debug this on IRC [09:59] sure [10:00] (I mean do it when you ave time...) [10:00] I know you are not daydreaming :) [10:00] thanks already for the time you take pitti [10:00] you're welcome, it seems to be a major issue [10:01] I fear that I am not the only one facing it... [10:02] chrisccoulson, well, as said I spend 2 hours on saturday and 2 hours on synday [10:02] sunday [10:02] ie I was almost to 0 when I went to bed yesterday [10:02] seb128 - that's still pretty impressive though ;) [10:02] considering the amount of e-mails you get [10:03] yeah, what is not impressive is the number of issues we have in the software we ship there [10:03] and we being opensource not especially ubuntu [10:03] we still have some way to go [10:05] reading emails from the weekend, usb key mounting is broken for quite some users, the audio and video players are being crap and can't read youtube videos or dvd or do visualization or crossfading correctly [10:05] the email client is not better, hanging when open files from emails [10:05] or crashing when adding tasks or when pressing enter for some users [10:06] quite some keyboard layout issues too [10:06] evince is not able render or print correctly quite some pdf apparently [10:06] *shrug* [10:08] * mvo hugs seb128 [10:08] * seb128 hugs mvo back [10:08] I share your pain, u-m give bogus error messages when the upgrade mirror is overloaded :( [10:10] seb128: a friend of mine upgraded as well and reported problems with policykit, pulseaudio, and docking station handling [10:11] pulseaudio is a frequent complain too... [10:11] and empathy has quite some issues [10:11] anyway let's see the good side, we have one cycle to make what we have now solid [10:12] I'm just going to fight hard against any new feature proposal at uds ;-) [10:12] we really need to stop adding things this cycle and try to make what we have work [10:12] +1 [10:12] but still I think it was good to squeeze it all into karmic [10:13] Hi. My mother is running ubuntu intrepid. When I run "update-manager -d" it suggest to upgrade to 9.04 and not 9.10. Is there a reason? [10:13] I just wouldn't recommend everyone to upgrade; it's the Fedora of Ubuntu, after all [10:13] Zdra: yes, we don't support upgrades with skipping releases [10:13] Zdra: except LTS->LTS (e. g. 8.04 -> 10.04) [10:13] pitti, it worked on another laptop [10:14] I'm almost sure it was intrepid->karmic [10:14] Zdra: Upgrade to 9.04, then upgrade that to 9.10. You are not supposed to be able to upgrade from 8.10 to 9.10 directly. [10:15] Hm :/ [10:15] I think I'll make a clean install then [10:23] pitti, you might want to reopen bug #463347 [10:23] Launchpad bug 463347 in udev "Usb Media not automaticaly mounted" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463347 [10:23] * seb128 closes another 2 duplicates of this one [10:23] seb128: have you seen something like bug #469399 before ? see comment #4 gtk-update-icon-cache fails with undefinied symbol g_mapped_file_unref [10:23] Launchpad bug 469399 in update-manager "Could not install 'gnome-accessibility-themes' & 'gnome-themes-more'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/469399 [10:24] pitti - bug 470433 seems to be another issue with not correctly detecting the filesystem type [10:24] Launchpad bug 470433 in gvfs "no usb automount in Karmic Koala (dup-of: 463347)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470433 [10:24] Launchpad bug 463347 in udev "Usb Media not automaticaly mounted" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463347 [10:24] mvo, ldd `which gtk-update-icon-cache` [10:25] chrisccoulson, yeah, see what I just wrote, same for bug #463347 [10:25] ups bug #/469722 [10:25] gnagnagna [10:25] seb128 - yeah, i just noticed you touched that one ;) [10:25] bug #469722 [10:25] Launchpad bug 469722 in nautilus "Karmic Koala does not automount usb devices (dup-of: 463347)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/469722 [10:25] Launchpad bug 463347 in udev "Usb Media not automaticaly mounted" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463347 [10:26] chrisccoulson, well the first bug was the one I just pointed [10:26] seb128: you assume some old stuff in /usr/local ? I will followup with that [10:26] I asked the submitter to use ubuntu-bug and use the symptom based filing [10:26] mvo, either that or gtk updated before glib but that should not happens with the correct depends right? [10:27] mvo, it basically means the glib version seems too old [10:27] those issues are usually local installs [10:27] seb128: yeah, thanks [11:03] hey pedro_ [11:03] salut seb128 [11:03] pedro_, how are you? [11:04] seb128, good, thanks, what about you? how was that long weekend? [11:06] pedro_, quite good thanks, though I spent some daily hours triaging bugs [11:06] got over a thousand email and I didn't want to have a depressing monday doing triaging only [11:06] pedro_, what about you? [11:07] seb128, ah yeah noticed that on Friday :-P [11:07] seb128, was good and quiet this time :-) [11:07] excellent [11:08] oh, ubuntu open week this week [11:08] see reading dholbach on facebook has some use ;-) [11:10] seb128, have you seen bug 448153 ? [11:10] Launchpad bug 448153 in nautilus "Folder settings (metadata) lost after upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448153 [11:11] * pedro_ being nudge by gpoo about that [11:11] pedro_, yes, I will do srus this afternoon [11:11] \o/! [11:11] it show how much we don't test upgrades [11:12] well we test mechanic updates [11:12] but not that user settings, configs etc are handled as they should [11:15] hum [11:16] how do we deal with user cleaning on uninstall breaking due to running softwares? [11:16] ie gdm uninstall can break because the gdm user has an active session [11:17] I don't remember that we ever did that [11:18] pitti, that being? [11:18] doing any particular check whether an app is running for package removal [11:18] well the thing is that the maintainer script is failing right now [11:18] if gdm is still running? [11:18] that sounds correct to me? [11:19] ok, that was my question is some sort [11:20] users should be stopping gdm before uninstalling it [11:59] seb128: does gdm start X? If so, in which file? I'm seeing this root 1040 0.9 0.8 14584 8184 tty7 Ss+ 12:50 0:01 /usr/bin/X :0 -br -verbose -auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm-H9rYlX/database -nolisten tcp vt7 [11:59] yes gdm does start X [11:59] what do you mean by in which file? [12:00] in the source code of gdm [12:01] dunno [12:01] I need to change this command: /usr/bin/X :0 -br -verbose [12:01] why? [12:01] into /usr/bin/X :0 -nr -verbose [12:01] I'm working on a smooth boot process for Lucid [12:02] and the -nr option allows X to create a root window with no background [12:02] daemon/gdm-server.c: argv[len++] = g_strdup ("-nolisten"); [12:02] gdm_server_init (GdmServer *server) [12:02] server->priv->command = g_strdup (X_SERVER " -br -verbose"); [12:02] tseliot, ^ [12:03] seb128: perfect. Thanks a lot :-) [12:03] you're welcome! === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:31] mvo: fyi http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/packagekit/2009-November/005453.html [12:32] seb128: ^^^ in the gnome-packagekit bits, are there some useful to ubuntu? [13:12] seb128, one question, would you have an item called "Système de fichiers ..." on your nautilus sidebar ? (I have a problem specically setting an emblem on) [13:13] or any frenchy around, I would need to reproduce something [13:16] hello baptistemm [13:16] hi chrisccoulson [13:17] hi chrisccoulson1 rather [13:17] heh, my name keeps changing because of my unreliable connection ;) [13:17] how are you? [13:17] fine, not a lot of thing to do at job, I'm a bit bored [13:18] i feel the same actually ;) [13:18] it means i have plenty of time to perfect my CV though! [13:19] but as I just arrived I feel unconforable to do something else than the job I have to do [13:19] (ie; doing some gnome or ubuntu things) === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:19] yeah, i know the feeling ;) [13:20] hopefully now I work in a OSS environment [13:21] what job do you do? [13:21] I'm a contractor for Orange [13:21] for the web portal [13:22] huats: hey! got some minutes to debug your usb key? [13:22] excellent, that sounds interesting [13:22] complex architecture but I just managed the front part (the one that use the user) [13:22] s/ed/e/ [13:23] pitti, always ! [13:46] baptistemm, yes there is a filesystem entry in nautilus disks for several cycles [13:47] seb128, once you've mounted it, could you try to set an emblem on it? [13:47] baptistemm, there is no way to unmount it, it's your linux install [13:47] ie your ubuntu disk [13:48] ah sorry I wasn't clear enought [13:48] I mean't an additional volume [13:48] no [13:49] each time I try to set an emblem on the icon on the desktop of the volume I see the message "Erreur GConf : Le texte contient de l'UTF-8 non valide" in .xsession-errors [13:49] fredp, I still have difficulties to understand what packagekit-gnome is [13:50] fredp, I will let mvo comment on that [13:51] seb128: there is a bunch of stuff in there, some might be useful (such as helpers to install a package handling a given mime type) but others are more full fledged applications [13:51] baptistemm, same here [13:52] fredp, how would those benefit GNOME? [13:52] fredp, as said the other day I think what we should have is a set of API apps can use [13:53] seb128, okay nice to know I'm not alone :) [13:53] seb128: I believe they act as small wrappers around dbus calls to packagekit; at the moment applications have to do the dbus call by themselves [13:53] that's probably useful to have [13:53] mvo, ^ [13:54] from a gnome point of view we need known points that applications can use, be it a dbus api, or helper binaries [13:54] (I only had a quick look at what is being done as "packagekit support" in nautilus and file roller) [13:56] seb128, I can open a bug if you want, but I don't know what and where it fails [13:57] I tried to create a foler with è in the name and it workds fine [13:57] baptistemm, if you open one open a GNOME bug ;-) [13:57] :) [14:00] mvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Package%20icon,%20title,%20summary,%20and%20description (in case you hadn't found it already) [14:07] fredp: hm, afaik there is the session dbus api for that, that is provided by the packagekit update applet [14:08] fredp: the trouble is that we have a applet like this already so we would have to do some work on making the PK one invisible (or merging the functionatliy from ours into the PK one) [14:10] fredp: we will have a bigger discussion about PK and ubuntu 10.04 at UDS, if the debconf problem can be solved (and everything looks good) there is no conceptual reason for us anymore not to use it. then it just becomes a lot of work to adjust our tools [14:11] hey rickspencer3 [14:11] fredp: when is the deadline for the 2.30 discussion? [14:11] hi seb128 [14:12] mvo: the module discussion happened on Sunday; and we were not really sure about packagekit, hence the mail to the list. [14:13] how will it work, is there voting? or will the release team make a decision at some point based on the feedback? [14:14] mvo: the release team decides [14:14] * mvo nods [14:14] at the moment distributions (not just ubuntu) are mostly using their own tools; sometimes combining them with a few of the packagekit ones [14:15] but (especially if the debconf issue is solved) it looks like everybody is fine converging to packagekit, backend wise. [14:15] now, if some other distros were starting to contribute to the packagekit tools... [14:15] just like it was proposed earlier for the status icon :) [14:15] everybody would love it :) [14:21] mclasen: there has been a misunderstanding of some sort in the past, the debconf issue was interpreted as a policy decision (hughsies law in the faq), that is why ubuntu/debian was so hesitant with it [14:54] * kenvandine wishes he had noticed his laptop was failing to suspend before we released karmic === jcastro_ is now known as jcastro [15:30] seb128: do you know what file specifies the parameters (e.g. --display-id) that are passed to gdm? [15:43] seb128: re bug 460710 -- can I propose a SRU for it? [15:43] Launchpad bug 460710 in evolution "Evolution hangs when double-clicking on attachment" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460710 [15:58] hggdh, hey, what change is that? [15:58] tseliot, to what process? [15:59] seb128: /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-simple-slave --display-id /org/gnome/DisplayManager/Display1 [15:59]