/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/11/03/#kubuntu-devel.txt

apacheloggerJontheEchidna: http://apachelog.blogspot.com/2009/11/kubuntus-project-timelord.html useful enough?00:01
JontheEchidnareading now00:01
JontheEchidnalast line gave me chills <300:01
apacheloggerhehe00:03
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: if you blog tomorrow, please digg a bit into the fun stuff00:03
apacheloggerlike explain what's the name about et all00:03
apacheloggermotive people to lend a hand00:03
apacheloggermotivate even00:04
JontheEchidnawill do00:04
apacheloggerryanakca: thanks a lot for the pic :)00:04
* apachelogger hugs everyone and goes to bed being afraid that he needs to get up in 6 hours for analysis :S00:05
Nightroseryanakca: perfect pic00:10
* Nightrose hugs apachelogger good night00:10
LaserJockis this Project Timelord thing online somewhere?01:00
kb9vqfLaserJock: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/timelord01:18
yuriyoy is that official now?01:41
ScottKOfficial'ish.01:45
LaserJockso I don't understand how official it is?01:49
yuriyofficial enough to be published but really just proposals for UDS02:03
LaserJockyuriy: who all wrote it?02:04
* JontheEchidna just finished deleting 300/900 spam comments from his blog, enough for today02:04
LaserJockis the Kubuntu Council behind it?02:04
yuriyLaserJock: JontheEchidna and apachelogger02:05
LaserJockthere's some pretty dramatic changes in there02:05
yuriyi think...02:05
JontheEchidnaapachelogger, ScottK, nixternal, Nightrose and myself were the main brainstormers02:05
JontheEchidnathen it was discussed on the mailing list02:06
JontheEchidnaand announced today after a month or so of work02:06
LaserJockI don't quite understand the translations thing exactly02:06
LaserJockdon't upstream translations automatically override?02:06
LaserJockso if there aren't much for Kubuntu translators doesn't that mean it should be pretty much stock KDE?02:07
JontheEchidnathey are stripped from the packages and sent on a trip through rosetta, with varying results02:07
LaserJockah, so they're getting messed up in the stripping, processing, re-packaging02:07
JontheEchidnaThat trip is not as bad in 10.04 but it still offers another layer of potential failure that is totally unecessary, and takes a good amount of work to keep working02:08
LaserJockso will KDE be OK with all these Kubuntu bugs going to them?02:08
JontheEchidnait's been that way until 9.10 actually02:09
JontheEchidnahelp -> report bugs has always gone to bugs.kde.org until this release02:09
LaserJockwell02:09
JontheEchidnaand the KDE crash handler still goes to KDE02:09
LaserJockbut the change in bug triaging policy seems more of an issue than the help -> report bugs thing02:09
JontheEchidnabasically it'll make less bugs rot and die in LP02:10
LaserJockso would you be opening an upstream task and marking the ubuntu task as won't fix?02:11
yuriythe change in bug triaging policy is mostly implemented anyway. I agree with that part -- it would be *nice* to track everything, but really upstream bugs/wishlists just get in the way02:11
LaserJocksorry for all the question, I'm just curious about the plan02:11
JontheEchidnaBug triage actually has a formal spec written up, just a second02:12
JontheEchidnahttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-bug-triage-policy-lucid/02:12
LaserJockwell, I guess I'm also interested because it effects Edubuntu too as we ship KDE Edu02:12
JontheEchidnabasically, non-SRUable bugs or bugs with low/wishlist importance will not be tracked02:13
JontheEchidnasince the point of tracking things at LP is for potential SRUs anyway02:14
LaserJockso the intent here is that Kubuntu shrink the scope of its efforts such that it can do the things it does really well02:14
LaserJockand then as/if resource grow the scope can grow02:14
JontheEchidnaexactly02:14
JontheEchidnause resources as efficiently as possible, and scale when possible02:14
LaserJockEdubuntu has tried to do similar, although I don't think very successfully02:15
LaserJockbut it makes sense if you can pull it off02:15
LaserJocka potential problem is that the "scaling down to increase quality" can be seen as becoming stale02:16
LaserJockbut I would think that Kubuntu has the critical mass to pull it off and I think Kubuntu users appreciate having a high quality distro02:16
JontheEchidnathis is why we are also pushing recruitment to increase resources02:17
JontheEchidnaso that these don't have to be "forever changes"02:17
JontheEchidnait will be a delicate balance I'm sure02:17
JontheEchidnaKDE edu is a pretty nice module to maintain bug-wise, thankfully not too many of the beasties02:23
LaserJockyeah02:27
JontheEchidnait's more of the kdepim/kdebase/kdebase-workspace triple-combo we're worried about02:28
JontheEchidnaalmost 500 bugs from those 3 alone02:28
JontheEchidnamostly upstream bugs that nobody's found the time to upstream02:28
yuriyand even that sounds down about twofold from about a year ago02:29
JontheEchidnaI believe when I first started bug triaging kdebase itself had 70002:29
JontheEchidnathat was during the 8.10 dev cycle02:29
JontheEchidnanow it's split between kdebase, kdebase-workspace and kdebase-runtime, but still considerably less02:30
ryanakcaapachelogger, Nightrose: No problem :)03:32
ryanakcaapachelogger: Yeah, the website needs work.03:32
shtylmanI for one welcome our new kubuntu overloards03:47
shtylmanso who wrote this massive document?03:58
ScottKJontheEchidna and apachelogger are the primary authors03:59
ScottKSeveral of use read it over and contributed.03:59
shtylmanvery nice03:59
* rgreening was looking for the coles notes04:57
rgreeningj/k04:58
ScottKWhat.  Those would've been too long too?05:00
rgreeninglol05:18
ulysses__I love this projekt, 'Doctor Who' is my favorite05:23
=== m4v_ is now known as m4v
markeyhm06:15
markeystill no chromium builds06:15
markeyanything we can do besides complain?06:15
markeythe complain part I did06:16
markeyI can't help myself, as I'm not a packager06:16
markeyI can kick arses, if that is of any help06:16
markey(it isn't, right?)06:16
markeyapachelogger: you are my hero06:31
markeyI mean, again06:32
markeywe we hug?06:32
markeyTimelord sounds awesome06:32
markeyeven more so if I can contribute some ideas :)06:32
markeylike, getting rid of some of the baggage dictated by Canonical06:32
markey(PulseAudio...)06:33
markey(Apport...)06:33
markeyand the Shuttteworth could also give you some of his vast amounts of cash06:34
markeyinstead of shipping those silly CDs06:34
markeythat I like to use as Frisbees06:34
* markey will support Timelord every way he can06:36
amikis there a kubuntu updates changelog somewhere? where I can see which packages were updated and when?08:01
skreechamik: #ubuntu-devel08:02
amikScottK: mkay, sorry08:02
emonkeyapachelogger: Would it be possible to start something like a "Kubuntu Fellowship"? I mean there's a lot to do and several of these things are much easier with some money. I would be glad to be one of the first donators. I think it just have to be clear where this money is going and who manages it. IMO one of the importest things would be to get a clear situation what should be achieved with it and which role does canonical play. (Which08:52
emonkey services they want to do and which not.)08:52
* emonkey likes the way how goals are specified for the next releases in the TL-announcement. Looks like there's a strategie08:58
apacheloggermarkey: *hug* blog about your POV on timelord please :)08:59
markey:)08:59
markeywell08:59
markeyapachelogger: first I must be sure about some details of Timelord09:00
markeye.g. I would love to see a move to a rolling release scheme (at least a hybrid)09:00
markeyI need the latest snapshots of many apps09:00
markeyChromium, Qt Creator, etc09:00
markeyArch offers that09:00
apacheloggercan't do09:01
apacheloggertoo little resources09:01
markeywell, a hyrid, at least some PPAs09:01
markeyhybrid09:01
apacheloggerwell, let me put that right09:01
apacheloggerright now we do not have enough manpower to maintain that kind of stuff09:01
markeyok, maybe we can get it with better promotion :)09:01
markeythat's one of Timelord's goals anyway09:02
apacheloggerif, which is one of the targets, more people become active contributors, I do think that more snapshot packages are going to be published (that is however pretty much up to the individual contributor)09:02
markeyapachelogger: and then, what's Riddell's position on Timelord?09:02
markeyhe's employed by Canonical09:02
apacheloggerhe agrees with most of it, but is unsure about the translations issue09:03
markeythat puts him in a morally difficult position ;)09:03
markeyhe can't openly criticise Canonical09:03
apacheloggerin fact, translation might be the most controversal topic of them all09:03
markeyand Shuttleworth should give you some of his sacks of gold09:03
markeyman09:03
markeyimho he's very good with getting labour for free09:04
apacheloggeror employ me :P09:04
markeythat's what I mean09:04
markeybut then you also have to do what he says09:04
markey...09:04
markeysee the problem?09:04
apacheloggerwell09:04
emonkeywe should win euromillions  ... :-)09:04
apacheloggerhe'd only want things that improve kubuntu as a product and thus more valuable to canonical I suppose09:05
apacheloggerso in the end it's a win win eitherway09:05
markeyanother example: that 1024 files limit. we only have to stick without because of some Ubuntu devs09:05
markeyalthough Riddell agreed it would make sense to increase the limit09:05
markeythe Ubuntu guys are clueless on that topic09:06
markeys/without/with it09:06
markeyI type too quickly, too badly09:06
markeyone thing is becoming problematic: more and more developers migrate to Arch09:07
markeydistros need the support of devs09:07
markeythey are a multiplicator09:07
markeyso I think Timelord should make Kubuntu more attractive for developers too09:07
apacheloggeragreed09:09
emonkey+109:11
ghostcubecan anyone confirm this one10:44
ghostcubehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/46693510:44
ubottuUbuntu bug 466935 in linux "No Video Output in Karmic with ID 046d:09a1 Logitech, Inc. QuickCam Communicate MP/S5500" [Undecided,New]10:44
ghostcubethe picture is there but its so dark you cant see anything even with 500 watt flood lamp10:45
ghostcubei tested10:45
ghostcube-_-10:45
ghostcubehow can i gdb the printer applet10:47
ghostcubejust start it with py applet.py ?10:48
jussi01Been thinking a little, maybe we could have a register of people who volunteer to list their hardware, so if a problem turns up, then it can be tagged with that peice of hw and all the people who own that are notified and can test fixes or problems. could be part of your lp profile. (needs more thinking I know, but thats the general idea)10:51
Nightrosejussi01: i like10:53
ghostcubejussi01: sounds good10:54
ghostcubeanyone can code gkrellm to use asus atk010 o.O10:55
ghostcubehehe10:55
jussi01hrr, who changed lspci output?10:56
* jussi01 grumbles...10:57
ghostcubewho coded grub210:57
* ghostcube is getting angry10:57
ghostcubei think i will just do a new install and kick it grml10:58
apacheloggerjussi01: that is the ol ubuntu hardware db + poke feature11:27
jussi01apachelogger: so it exists? link pls?11:27
apacheloggergoogle11:27
apacheloggerall the links youll ever need :P11:27
apacheloggerhttp://www.pubbs.net/ubuntu/200911/2746/11:31
apacheloggeryou see why I find our wiki pages highly inefficient11:31
apacheloggeryou go somehwere, get lost and give up11:31
apacheloggerand I think that happens about 99% of the time someone wants some information from the wiki11:31
neverendingohey kubuntu devs, i was told by Mamarok i should tell you that the karmic release is the best release i have ever seen. never worked so great for me! thanks for that!11:33
Mamarokgood boy :)11:33
Mamarok!cookie | neverendingo11:33
ubottuneverendingo: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!11:33
Riddellawooga!11:33
* apachelogger hugs neverendingo and hands him a cuppa tea11:34
neverendingoseriously, awesome11:34
=== neverendingo_ is now known as neverendingo
Riddellthat'll be the archive open11:46
apacheloggerthat was fast11:48
apacheloggerdidn;t it always take like a week or more11:48
Riddellnot usually11:49
Riddelljust depends how quick doko is with the toolchain11:49
Riddellhmm, but where is lex and his qt11:49
ryanakcaSync/merge time?11:49
Riddellyep11:49
Riddellwe need a wiki page to track the main packagse11:50
jussi01when is alpha 1 scheduled?11:50
Riddelldecember11:50
ryanakcaAlso, anybody know why Kubuntu has a different knmap tarball than Debian?11:50
Riddellthere's only three alphas this time, and two betas11:50
Riddellryanakca: because we uploaded first maybe?11:51
* apachelogger updates kontrolpack11:51
jussi01Riddell: o.O11:51
ryanakcaRiddell: OK11:52
neversfeldekcm-touchpad crashes systemsettings :(11:52
* jussi01 upgrades apachelogger...11:52
apacheloggerwho is pushing kcm-touchpad into lucid anyway?11:52
jussi01new improved version! :P11:52
* apachelogger switches to upgrade mode11:53
jussi01now with sleepless nights! :P11:53
Riddellapachelogger: dare I ask what kontrolpack is?11:53
apachelogger!info kontrolpack11:53
ubottukontrolpack (source: kontrolpack): network controller. In component universe, is extra. Version 2.0.3-0ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 420 kB, installed size 784 kB11:53
apacheloggerRiddell: kind of remote node management thingy thing11:53
Riddellah yes, I remember, the thingy thing11:54
apacheloggeroh dear11:55
apachelogger-.-11:55
apacheloggerupstream aint got no clue of tarball making11:55
apacheloggerI even asked him to script it, so that he could avoid reintroducing stuff I bitched about earlier11:55
apacheloggerlol11:57
apacheloggersrc/COPYING -> src/copying11:57
apachelogger:D11:57
* apachelogger writes mail11:57
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
slacker_nlhi, just read something about the timelord project12:24
slacker_nlwhat can one do to help?12:25
ghostcubehmm nah intrepid was best ever12:27
ghostcubenot karmic :D12:27
slacker_nli disagree12:28
ghostcubeslacker_nl: depends on what bugs you notice12:28
ghostcubeand if they are bigger than on older revs12:29
ghostcube:)12:29
ghostcubefor youreself12:29
slacker_nlghostcube: i ran into issues at intrepid, which i don't have with karmic12:29
ghostcubefor me its the opposite12:29
ghostcubeheh12:29
ghostcube:)12:29
slacker_nlthink it is different for almost everyone12:30
slacker_nldoesn't matter, lucid will set the record straight12:30
ghostcubethe uvc error drives me nuts12:30
ghostcube i ned my webcam12:30
Riddellhmm, "Getting KDE 4 ready for LTS - JonathanRiddell" on the UbuntuOpenWeek timetable, wonder what I should talk about12:30
ghostcubeand i need to use windows now for it12:30
ulysses__intresting, I wait for it Riddell :)12:31
ghostcubeRiddell: hmmm that you are a good looking developer and john not12:32
ghostcube:D12:32
slacker_nllol12:32
ghostcubemaybe this would bring an cool discussion12:32
ghostcube:D12:32
ulysses__:D12:32
apacheloggerRiddell: just talk about canoeing sure will be more intersting :)12:36
slacker_nlRiddell: maybe talk about eh timelord project, and what that will mean for lts??12:38
Riddellthat's roughly my plan12:38
JontheEchidnaman, stupid daylight savings really messes with one's sleep schedule12:39
slacker_nlJontheEchidna: i agree12:39
ulysses__22:00 UTC, it means 23:00 local time:/12:39
slacker_nlalthough with wintertime i get an hour more sleep12:40
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: btw, I changed the spec approver for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-bug-triage-policy-lucid to Riddell12:41
apacheloggerI noticed :D12:42
JontheEchidnashould we work suspension of apport into that, or should it go into a more generic lucid-software-development type spec?12:42
JontheEchidnaI'm thinking the latter12:42
apacheloggeryeah, latter I'd say12:43
apacheloggerRiddell: kaudiocreator went from version 3.5.10 to 1.2.81 ... any suggestions on what to do in the packaging?12:45
Riddellthat's what epoch's are for but worth checking with debian to make sure we don't get out of sync12:45
apacheloggerlongish longish mails12:46
apacheloggerRiddell: the thing is we are already at epoch 4 since it came from poor ol kdemultimedia12:46
Riddellthere's always a higher epoch :)12:48
apacheloggersure, just saying, should it ever get back into kdemultimedia12:49
apacheloggerthen kdemm also needs to go up to 512:49
Riddellthat's why we need to check with debian12:49
Riddellalthough if it's anything like qt they'll be indecisive for a while before doing something different than us :)12:52
apacheloggerwell12:53
apacheloggerwe could still go out of sync12:53
apacheloggerkac for kde4 is unstable12:54
apacheloggerso debian will not want to replace the KDE 3 just now12:54
apacheloggerwhich means we will have kac with 5:1.x and debian 4:3.5.912:54
apacheloggernow12:54
JontheEchidnawhoa, lucid's open12:54
apacheloggershould kac become part of kdemultimedia again, before debian adopts a version of 5:1.x12:54
apacheloggerdebian will pursue 4:xxxx12:55
apacheloggerwe however will have to increment kdemultimedia to 5:xxxx, getting us out of sync12:55
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: what else is new :P12:57
* apachelogger sends JontheEchidna to his blog12:57
apacheloggeruse yer nu wordpress powas wisely!12:57
apacheloggermeanwhile I try to find something to eat12:57
* JontheEchidna began composing last night13:01
JontheEchidnablog'd, now on to packaging stuff for lucid13:06
* Riddell still massaging 4.3.3 for karmic13:10
Riddellbut we need a Lucid version of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KarmicKDEMerges13:10
Riddelland I think you have a wiki page with a big patches table somewhere13:10
JontheEchidnaI do in fact13:22
JontheEchidnahttps://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/LucidPatchReview13:22
JontheEchidnathe rosetta comments are obviously contingent on what we end up doing for 10.04, so no need to worry about those for the moment13:24
apacheloggertea time!13:26
* apachelogger brews some white tea13:26
RiddellNCommander: would you fancy upping the build score of some of our packages so we have KDE 4.3.3 ready in time?13:26
NCommanderRiddell, sure, PM me the list, I'll bump them after the mobile meeting13:27
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: kubuntu_04_add_langpack_path can not be dropped even if rosetta support gets kicked13:27
apacheloggerkubuntu apps would njot get translations via langpacks then13:27
JontheEchidnaI'll mark that as keep then13:28
apacheloggerkubuntu_64_rosetta_translations13:28
apacheloggerthat too13:28
apacheloggerthough it needs a more useful name :P13:28
* apachelogger aint got no clue what it contains, but it sure needs to stick around13:28
apacheloggerkubuntu_68_remove_applet_confirmation is defenitely upstreamable, I would suppose it is in KDE's interest that the user can not remove important stuff by accident13:30
apacheloggerquestion is just how much work needs to be put into it to make it scale well and all13:30
* apachelogger starts kteatimer13:31
apacheloggerteatime even :)13:31
* apachelogger pours a cup of tea for JontheEchidna, Riddell and himself13:34
apacheloggeranyone else?13:34
* JontheEchidna eats an english muffin with his tea13:35
* apachelogger notes to agree with modestas13:35
Riddellcan I have a scone with it?13:35
apacheloggerall them crappy epochs are hell13:36
apacheloggerRiddell: don't have any, and poor ol kubotu is still travelling the intarwebs :|13:36
RiddellI think I'll upload this plasma-widget-networkmanagement update into staging13:37
Riddellshould fix GSM and VPN support13:37
JontheEchidna\o/13:37
apacheloggerVPN13:38
apacheloggerI was quite surprised, the vpn stuff actually works with what is in karmic13:38
apacheloggerwell, kinda13:38
apacheloggerit only connects if you provide passwords beforehand and you cant disconnect once connected... but other than that13:39
JontheEchidnabug 44618013:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 446180 in kdebase-workspace "zz-plasma-remove-network-manager.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44618013:39
JontheEchidnaI'm fairly sure that that is a lack of a dependency on python-kde413:39
JontheEchidnagnomies who have kde stuff installed but not kubuntu then update, and bam13:40
* apachelogger never liked kubuntu13:42
apacheloggereh13:42
* apachelogger never liked gnome13:42
apachelogger:P13:42
markeyOo13:42
* apachelogger hands markey a cup of tea13:42
Riddellahem13:42
markeyhas Timelord sparked discussion on the Ubuntu lists too?13:45
markeyI only read kubuntu-devel13:45
apacheloggernope13:45
apacheloggerRiddell: did you get a chance to review the bug mgmt policy yet?13:46
* seele doesnt quite understand what timelord is13:46
seeleis it a vision document? or QA strategy?13:46
apacheloggerboth13:47
apacheloggerboth+more13:47
apacheloggera todo possbily13:47
* apachelogger is not sure how to describe timelord with one word :)13:47
sebasapachelogger: the "and I want ponies!!!!!" comments on your blog are plain awful13:47
apacheloggersebas: but if they want ponies? :D13:48
sebasWIth one word, probably "vision" fits best13:48
sebasapachelogger: then they can still go and f themselves13:49
apacheloggerhehe13:49
* sebas hates that, you talk about something and everybody shows up with their pet peeves and wants to influence your agenda13:49
yuriywe can give fluffy bunnies once a year, close enough?13:49
sebasf= fork obviously ;)13:49
* apachelogger just will turn it aroud next time13:49
* markey moderates troll comments strictly on his own blogs13:49
sebasThose aren't trolls13:49
markeyno mean, if there are some13:50
markeyhaven't checked13:50
apacheloggergot enough such pony comments to get at least 20 new kubuntu contributors13:50
sebasit's "we think we need to improve a, b, and c" and they go "but x, y, z is most important (because I think it is)"13:50
markeygoing jogging, bbl13:50
apacheloggerso I just need to poke them in the eye or something13:50
JontheEchidnaWith lack of a better place to voice their peeves, they resort to finding the closest place where they can do so. (In most cases being blogs)13:50
sebasthere's a better place13:50
JontheEchidnawell it has to be easy too. they are lazy :D13:51
JontheEchidnaeverybody's an armchair free software expert, but nobody wants to leave the armchair13:51
JontheEchidnaimo13:51
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: I think we should get started on the support policy?13:52
sebasJontheEchidna: as long as people don't pitch in, I care very little what they want13:53
JontheEchidnasebas: same here :)13:53
sebasI want enough myself to warrant having 72hour-days13:54
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: I was thinking that the upstream communications are more pressing, now that people know that we should be doing it13:54
sebas+ sleep, food and other overhead like social life13:54
* apachelogger hugs sebas13:55
apacheloggerenough upstream communication? :P13:55
JontheEchidnalol13:55
sebasthat's not called collaboration :)13:55
sebas(still appreciated :P)13:55
* apachelogger thinks that Hydrogen might get jealous if apachelogger were to collaborate with someone else :P13:57
Riddell"Authorization Approved" yay!13:59
Riddell"Your travel authorization has been approved and you are authorized to travel to the United States "  Dallas here I come13:59
\shMeeting with J.R. Ewing ,-)14:00
falktxhi there14:01
falktxI just heard about Timelord14:01
falktxI want in14:01
falktxI know some debian packaging14:02
falktxpython14:02
falktxand PyQT14:02
falktxWhat do you think I can do to help?14:02
falktx(I'm already reading the full spec)14:02
JontheEchidnathat was fast :)14:04
JontheEchidnafalktx: if you're up to it, software-properties (PyQt) needs a bit of loving (bug 102773, bug 116445)14:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 102773 in software-properties "Translations (i18n) broken in software-properties-kde" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10277314:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 116445 in software-properties "[kde] software-properties-kde does not check if apt lines are valid" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11644514:06
ulysses__I want also join, I translated the Kubuntu Documentation for Karmic, and want to contribute more14:06
JontheEchidnathey fall into the "embarassingly old" category there ;-)14:06
* Riddell hugs ulysses__ and falktx 14:07
Riddellulysses__: are you any good at writing docs?  there's plenty that need Kubuntu-ified14:07
ulysses__I don't speak english very good, but I do everything I can14:08
ulysses__I am the coordinator of hungarian community documentation team o.O14:08
JontheEchidnayour written english is better than a lot of what I see from native speakers on the internet14:08
ulysses__thanks14:08
Riddellulysses__: for example this page could do with a Kubuntu version being made https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall14:09
ulysses__sometimes I write news to the hungarian LoCo site about Kubuntu (now working on Project Timelord translation)14:09
falktxi'll look into software-properties14:09
JontheEchidnaanybody up for a revu of my new package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=697014:09
falktxi'm waiting too for a revu, be patient14:10
JontheEchidna:)14:11
falktxi'll use my PPA for software-properties changes14:11
falktxhttps://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/ppa/14:11
ulysses__Riddell: OK, I'll write it14:11
JontheEchidnafalktx: what package are you currrently waiting for a revu for?14:11
falktxqtsixa14:13
JontheEchidnaoh, that sixaxis manager14:13
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: there is some other crap in the admin dir14:13
apacheloggercheck some old kde3 package form me14:13
apacheloggerIIRC there is some 100% free part, more free than GPL or something14:14
JontheEchidnaah, copyrights...14:14
JontheEchidnaevery packager's favorite part14:14
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: complete copy of lgpl is missing14:14
falktxjontheEchidna - can you revu that?14:14
JontheEchidnafalktx: yeah14:14
falktxthanks14:15
falktxwhy does software-properties translations works for me?14:15
falktxI don't see any language bug14:15
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: Tomas Mecir also holds a considerable amount of copyright14:16
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: I have him in debian/copyright, I thought14:17
apacheloggerUpstream Author: Tomas Mecir <kmuddy@kmuddy.com>14:17
apacheloggerthat does not replace a copyright statement :P14:17
JontheEchidnaoh, whoops14:17
JontheEchidnaI never replaced Marcel Hasler with him14:18
apacheloggerfalktx: what revu are you waiting on?14:18
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: qtsixa14:19
apacheloggerno clue what that is :D14:19
falktxSixaxis Joystick Manager14:19
apacheloggerright14:20
falktxallows to connect sixaxis wirelessly14:20
falktxand using hal to make it as mouse/keyboard14:20
apacheloggerfalktx: 1) ~ppax is no part of a valid version number for official archives 2) your package is a native package, which is not valid for archives either14:20
apacheloggerwell, unless it is really a native software created for ubuntu or kubuntu obviously :D14:20
falktxdo I just need to remove the ppa thing?14:21
apacheloggeryes14:21
apacheloggerand you need to rename the tarball14:21
apacheloggerin fact when you run debuild it should warn you14:21
JontheEchidnaDo we want Conflicts on ppa versions in the archive?14:21
JontheEchidnae.g. Conflicts: qt-sixa (<= 0.4.3-falktx1)14:22
falktxthat was my previous made releases14:22
falktxI changed the name qt-sixa to qtsixa14:22
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: not unless it is a kubuntu ppa :D14:22
falktxthat allows good updates14:22
apacheloggerfalktx: http://paste.ubuntu.com/308533/ that is what debuild should spit out if you try to build a non-native package in a native manner14:23
apacheloggeryou'll need to ensure that the tarball is named appropriately14:23
mgraesslinapachelogger and JontheEchidna: nice work on the Timelord project ;-)14:24
falktxit did gave me that error before14:24
falktxbut diappeared after i putted ~ppaX14:24
JontheEchidnafalktx: it won't be too nice on your current ppa users, but really it would be better to remove the conflicts and other ppa-versioned stuff before the final upload to Ubuntu14:25
JontheEchidnaoh, also the current convention is to set the maintainer to: Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>14:25
apacheloggermgraesslin: well, the work is yet to come :)14:26
mgraesslinapachelogger: recognizing problems is the first and most important step14:26
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: ...query...14:26
apacheloggermgraesslin: very true14:26
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: right! content looked fine imo14:26
falktxfixing it now14:26
mgraesslinabout translations I would recommend you to try to handle them via KDE SVN instead of bazaar14:26
mgraesslinmight reach more translators which do not know in general how to handle different vcs'14:27
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: I better run it by sebas, I don't trust your judgment on content14:28
apacheloggerwith Nightrose claiming that you are on crack and all :P14:28
JontheEchidnaheh14:28
apacheloggermgraesslin: we still need to work out the specifics of l10n, it is a quite complicate and also controversal topic14:29
mgraesslinsure14:29
falktxuploaded new package to revu14:29
sebasWhat's controversial about "ditch Rosetta"?14:32
yuriysebas: it goes against the standard Ubuntu processes. it also leaves no clear way to translate Kubuntu modifications14:33
falktxanything wrong with the new package?14:34
sebasOK, "ditch Rosetta for everything upstream" then14:34
Riddellor to package translations from stuff not in main KDE modules14:34
txwikingerWhen kdm doesn't start with the message in syslog that it respawns too fast... is that an upstart problem?14:34
claydohRiddell: I will do a Kubuntu-fied verison of that wiki page (GraphicalInstall)14:35
sebastxwikinger: usually, it's kdm or X crashing then14:36
JontheEchidnafalktx: old ppa changelog entries should go, and the final entry should close the packaging bug and be 1.0.2-0ubuntu114:36
txwikingersebas: Not sure14:36
txwikingerI can start kdm from commandline without problem14:36
sebasupstart wants to start kdm -> X crashes -> upstart tries again -> xcrashes -> ad infinitum -> respawns too often14:36
JontheEchidnafalktx: there's also not a kdesu package as far as I know, so the package shouldn't recommend that14:36
sebasThat doesn't mean that X can't crash14:36
txwikingerwell.. if X crashes, it does before it writes anything in the Xorg log14:37
sebasso it doesn't write *anything*, then it probably doesn't even touch X14:38
txwikingerit is definately not kdm because gdm does the same14:38
falktxwill fix that14:38
smarterapachelogger, JontheEchidna: fellow Timelords, what is the state of kubuntu-notification-helper ?14:39
JontheEchidnasmarter: it notifies of reboot, apport and upgrade hook notifications14:40
JontheEchidnastill needs codec and dist-upgrade notifications14:40
JontheEchidnaand hook support could probably be done better, but it still works better than update-notifier-kde14:40
smarterand where can I find the code to h4x on it?14:40
JontheEchidnahttps://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-notification-helper/trunk14:41
smarterthanks14:41
JontheEchidnafeedback welcome, this is pretty much the first time anybody other than harald or myself has looked/haxxed the code14:42
=== sam__ is now known as lunarcloud
BsimsI have an issue, I have been bitten by Bug # 425704 affecting my capslock, but does it affect numlock as well?14:44
JontheEchidnasmarter: a note, after installing you'll need to enable the kded module from "kcmshell4 kcmkded"14:45
falktxuploaded new package again14:45
smarterJontheEchidna: okay, so far the code looks good ;)14:45
apacheloggersmarter, JontheEchidna: general note: for good testing you want to restart kded after make install14:46
apacheloggerotherwise you might run into all sorts of weird caching14:46
JontheEchidnayeah, that's been my experience too14:47
apacheloggerfor notification changes youll need to restart knotify as well :P14:47
falktxif my package gets accepted, will it be on Karmic?14:47
falktxand can it be backported to Jaunty?14:47
JontheEchidnait would be for lucid, and you could file a backport for karmic14:48
JontheEchidnaand jaunty too I suppose14:48
smarterEvent::show() shows a notification?14:48
falktxnice14:48
smarteroh, nevermind, I thought Event was a KDE class14:49
JontheEchidnafalktx: which brings up another point I missed, the changelog entry should be for lucid.14:49
falktxaaa...14:49
falktxwait a little then14:49
JontheEchidna:)14:49
falktxre-uploaded now14:50
falktxyou think it will pass?14:50
BsimsI have an issue, I have been bitten by Bug # 425704 in console-setup affecting my capslock, but does it affect numlock as well?14:50
falktxI know it will fix at least 3 bugs14:51
JontheEchidnafalktx: I do have doubts about the current short description for sixad, but the packaging looks solid overall14:52
smarterJontheEchidna: what is the low-level stuff in hookevent for?14:52
JontheEchidnasmarter: directory listing14:52
smartercan't Qt do that?14:52
JontheEchidnaprobably. the hook stuff was a quick and dirty port of the python crap14:53
smarterokay14:53
smarterQDir seems more adapted14:53
JontheEchidnahooks stuff is also quite the memory hog, shoots kded mem usage up to 6 MB when showing the dialog14:54
smarteralso, I'd rather use one or more QRegExp to do the parsing14:54
JontheEchidnaany and all improvements to hook parsing are very much welcome :)14:55
smarterI'll look into it ;)14:55
apacheloggerryanakca: what is with the knmap upload on revu?14:55
JontheEchidnaI've found apt-file to be a good test package for hooks14:55
falktxany comments are welcome14:56
JontheEchidnaback in a bit14:56
falktxthis is my first "real" package I made14:56
smarterand I seriously don't believe that parsing /proc/uptime is the best way to do about anything :p14:57
JontheEchidna:P14:57
JontheEchidnafalktx: quite good for a first package, I must say14:57
rgreeningJontheEchidna: is python-gtk2 installed by default for kubuntu (CD or DVD iso?)14:57
falktxit's been almost 6 months in this package14:57
falktxthe ubuntuforums were really useful14:57
JontheEchidnargreening: I hope not14:58
falktxmy own package thread has already 38 pages14:58
* JontheEchidna is away for serious this time, back in 20 mins or so14:58
falktxhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=119006114:58
valgaavcan I suggest using oxygen molecule instead of qtcurve for gtk+ apps with next release ?15:01
LeeJunFanfiling bugs for ubuntu has become a real pain in the a$$ - launchpad hasn't worked for days now.15:01
valgaavso far I'm using it for two months with gimp / synaptic / mkvmerge / firefox and it does the job right15:02
apacheloggerso15:04
apacheloggerI am hungry15:04
apacheloggerthe fridge is empty15:05
apacheloggerand it is raining and incredibly cold outside15:05
smarterthat was almost an haiku15:05
apacheloggerobviously I must starve to death15:05
rgreeningRiddell: have you seen the flickering kubuntu usplash under 9.10?15:05
rgreeningow my eyes15:05
* apachelogger puts bandaid on rgreening's eyes15:06
Riddellrgreening: nope15:07
rgreeningRiddell, can you live boot the DVD and see if the live logo in usplash is flickering for you? Cause I have it here...15:08
rgreeningits part of the glow effect ubuntu has enabled in casper/initrd15:08
smarterapachelogger, JontheEchidna: how do I get kDebug() to outputs something with kded? Is installing the kdelibs debug package the only solution?15:08
Riddellrgreening: I've booted the CDs and DVDs 100 times and they didn't flicker15:08
apacheloggersmarter: kdebugdialg15:08
smarterrgreening: flickered for me on the Live-CD for at least one computer15:08
apacheloggerkdebugdialog15:08
rgreeninghmm... under vbox? or direct?15:08
apacheloggerturn on all15:08
apacheloggerthen it should spit to whatever is stdout for kded15:09
apacheloggeri.e. .xsession-errors unless you started kded from a terminal15:09
rgreeningsmarter: maybe its a dell mini-10v issue15:09
rgreening?15:09
rgreeningRiddell: ^15:09
smarterrgreening: nop, it was on a desktop, with an Intel 4500HD or something like that15:09
rgreeningmaybe its an intel issue15:10
smarterI haven't installed Kubuntu on that machine yet, no idea if it's a Live-CD only issue15:10
rgreeningI believe it only happens in live env...15:10
smarterwell, that's a relief at least :p15:10
rgreeningits gross. we need to change the logo to remove the pulsing bar bewlow the logo.15:10
rgreeningyuk15:11
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: mail sent, can we now please get started on the support policy? :P15:12
smarterapachelogger: how do you respawn kded properly?15:16
apacheloggerkquitapp kded; sleep2; kded415:17
smarterbut it doesn't enable the modules at restart15:17
smarterand it adds a knetworkmanager icon to the systray :p15:18
apacheloggerwell, yeah, but that is the most proper way available :P15:18
apacheloggerthe other would be to relogin15:18
=== skreech is now known as Daskreech
Riddellyo Daskreech15:21
RiddellI didn't get the faq update15:21
DaskreechBleah Can somene look in the backlog for the pastebin I last gave?15:24
Riddellirclogs.ubuntu.com is your friend15:25
Riddellwhat day?15:25
DaskreechTwo days ago I think15:25
DaskreechThree days15:26
Daskreech[20:50] <DasKreech> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/305369/ you can decide on if the phrase derivative should be changed to sibling15:27
Riddellthanks Daskreech15:27
DaskreechRiddell: We were discussing if the phrase derivavtive should instead be reworded to say sibling15:28
Riddell"derivavtive" isn't used in that text15:29
Riddell"Kubuntu is the first Ubuntu derived distribution."  I tend to say it's a variant from Ubuntu15:29
DaskreechRiddell: Well if you like you can reword that section I didn't know if it made sense to. I think Derived is a pretty good explanation15:35
falktxhow much time does it take a revu to be approved?15:37
JontheEchidnatwo motus have to give their approval on the package. I think I can give mine now15:40
RiddellI can revu stuff if I'm poked (although then I can't do archive admin approval)15:40
apacheloggerJontheEchidna, falktx: it's still a native package15:42
JontheEchidnaoh, hrm. I will unadvocate then15:42
apacheloggerlol15:42
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: you could however help falktx get that resolved15:43
RiddellDaskreech: kubuntu.org/faq updated (or will when cache updates) thanks15:43
DaskreechWhoot :)15:44
JontheEchidnafalktx: the unmodified source tarball used before the debian directory was added should be named qtsixa_1.0.2.orig.tar.gz15:44
JontheEchidnathat should fix the native package issue15:44
rgreeningwho here has a dell mini 10v? or dell laptop and wants the dell community image but with kubuntu instead?15:45
rgreening:)15:45
rgreeningI have a process from superm1 to do the dell recovery partition and havew a kubuntu install :)15:45
rgreeningI'll probably blog on it later...15:46
falktxi think i'll really need help on this15:46
falktxi adapted my code to debian source package15:46
falktxthen i started coding from there15:47
falktxso there's no "original code" package anymore15:47
JontheEchidnakeep a copy of you debian folder somewhere15:47
JontheEchidnadownload the source tarball from the qtsixa website15:48
falktxhm...15:48
falktxi develop qtsixa15:48
JontheEchidnarename/recompress it to qtsixa_1.0.2.orig.tar.gz15:48
falktxit's my own code15:48
falktxbut i'll try that15:48
JontheEchidnaoh, neat15:48
JontheEchidnabasically you take a tarball of the untouched upstream code15:48
JontheEchidnagive it the proper naming convention (packagename_version.orig.tar.gz)15:49
Riddellfalktx: if that's a Qt app there may be a trademark issue with it using Qt in the name (or there may not I don't know the current policy), of course that Nokia's problem not ours15:49
JontheEchidnathen place the debian directory into the extracted folder and debuild15:49
=== Quintasan1 is now known as Quintasan
Daskreechapachelogger: ping15:52
Daskreechor seele ping I might guess15:52
seele?15:53
apachelogger?15:53
Daskreechseele: What is the current oh hai apachelogger status with submissions of kubuntu paperkuts to OHP ?15:53
Quintasano hai15:54
DaskreechDo they get accepted and worked on ?15:54
* seele blinks15:54
seeleohp?15:54
DaskreechReading the Timelord documentation15:54
DaskreechOne Hundred papercuts15:54
seelecan you rephrase, i dont understand your question15:55
DaskreechDoes One Hundred papercuts accept papercuts submitted for KDE with an intention to work on them?15:55
seelewe are repsonsible for working on them15:57
seeleupstream has no obligation, nor do other members of ubuntu15:57
seelekde does not have a "papercuts" program15:57
apacheloggerfalktx: more comments15:57
falktxwhat do you mean?15:58
falktxI always get error:15:58
falktxunrepresentable changes to source15:58
Quintasananything more?15:59
Quintasanit's a problem with symbolic link, executable changed or something else?15:59
falktxjust hold16:00
falktxwe'll be busy now for 30mins16:01
falktxwill be back then16:01
Daskreechseele: Does Gnome?16:01
seeledoes gnome what?16:01
seele100 papercuts is an ubuntu program, not upstream16:02
agateauScottK: Riddell: I just realized the wiki page I wrote about configuring indicators in KDE apps is not linked anywhere, any idea where to put such a link?16:02
Riddellagateau: which page?16:02
DaskreechOk thats what I thought16:02
agateauRiddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KarmicKoala/ConfigureIndicators16:02
DaskreechAlthough KDE does have a JJ program16:02
DaskreechI wonder if a papercut type program would fit in there16:03
DaskreechKinda a cross between JJ and bugsquad16:03
Riddellagateau: I can link to it from http://www.kubuntu.org/news/9.10-release16:03
agateauRiddell: would be great!16:04
DaskreechIf we are forwarding most of the reports upstream it may help to put in some work to ensure something is there to catch them16:04
agateauRiddell: I was also wondering whether we could make the plasmoid open it if no indicator-enabled applications are running16:06
agateaubut I doubt this would qualify as SRU16:06
* Daskreech rereads the FAQ and ughs at the phrase "more full list" why didn't I see that before?16:07
Riddellagateau: make plasmoid open what?16:08
RiddellDaskreech: it was "fuller" before but that's not a word16:08
agateauRiddell: plasmoid would open the wiki page in default browser16:08
DaskreechYeah but more full is so twisted grammatically16:09
Daskreechmore complete would be better16:09
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
Riddellagateau: link added16:10
RiddellDaskreech: fixed16:10
agateauRiddell: thanks16:10
DaskreechRiddell: thanks16:10
Riddellagateau: a "setup" link to the wiki page would work, just opening it directly isn't what users tend to expect16:11
DaskreechRiddell: Should we say cannot boot into Ubuntu after installing windows?16:11
Daskreech I thought the idea was to promote Kubuntu ?16:11
agateauRiddell: yes, I agree16:11
RiddellDaskreech: fixed16:12
Daskreechapachelogger: Would you like a timelord mention for the last question on http://www.kubuntu.org/faq16:12
seeleneed a developer to clarify lingo: can back tracing also be known as back tracking, or is that something else?16:14
agateauseele: I think it's something else16:15
agateaunever heard a dev talking about "back tracking"16:15
JontheEchidnamaybe the act of obtaining a backtrace?16:15
seelei have transcripts of an interview with a developer, and he's talking about a back tracking tool16:16
agateauthat would be backtracing16:16
agateauseele: oh16:16
apacheloggerehm16:16
apacheloggerthey exist both16:17
apacheloggermean different things though16:17
apacheloggerback tracking describes a very common algorithm for problem solving16:17
apacheloggerbacktracing is... well, tracing something back to the origin I'd say :D16:17
apacheloggerso either he is talking about an algorithm or about tracing something or someone or somewhere16:18
apacheloggerah, that last some did not fit in ;)16:18
apacheloggerDaskreech: I would like the helping page being redone really :P16:20
apacheloggermentions adet :D16:20
apacheloggeradept even16:20
ScottKRiddell: I didn't forget on the updates policy.  I started work on a wiki page for it yesterday.  I'll get it to the tech board today or tomorrow, most likely16:30
RiddellScottK: let me know if there's something to read over16:31
ScottKRiddell: Will do.  I'm just taking the email I send to kubuntu-devel and making it more policy like.16:32
apacheloggertea time!16:33
* apachelogger brews some earl grey16:33
markeyapachelogger: one wish for Timelord: auto-mount all devices16:38
markeyI don't understand why I have to open Dolphin for mounting16:38
markeymakes 0 sense to me16:38
apacheloggerthat should be implemented in KDE, shouldn't it?16:38
markeyno idea...16:38
yuriymarkey: i think there was some period whan kde3 did do that and there was complaining16:39
apacheloggerAFAIK there is a plasma device notifier fork on kde-apps that automounts stuff16:39
ulysses__I saw a device notifier plasmoid with automount on kde-look.org16:39
yuriyof course, there's always complaining16:39
markeysee, in KDE it works this 1) idea 2) ... 3) patch 4) [one year later] 5) release16:39
apacheloggeryuriy: well, still can be an option16:39
markeytakes too much time16:39
markeyKDE is slow as molasses in many things16:39
yuriyunless the person just goes and commits the patch16:39
* apachelogger always does that :P16:39
markeyI don't work on KDE core things. it would madden me16:40
apacheloggerwell, once you got worked in it's only half bad16:40
* apachelogger once spent an entire day fixing a bug in some standard dialog16:40
apacheloggerthe actual fix was like 10 sloc, most of the time was spent on digging through kdelibs16:41
ScottKThe device notifier is getting overhauled for 4.4, so I'd say let's see what it is at the end before we decide to get excited as a project about changing thise16:42
ScottKthise/this16:42
markeyok, true16:42
markeyI just read something about it16:42
markeycore-devel16:42
JontheEchidnathe overhaul is the kde-look automounting one, passed through kdereview a few times16:42
JontheEchidnaI do not know if the automounting feature made it through though16:43
markeyAmarok development is an island of peace and sanity. we decide something, do it, 6 weeks later we release :)16:43
markeythat's fun working16:43
markey(amarok is not a library though, so it's easier to change things)16:43
apacheloggertea is ready16:43
apacheloggerwho wants some?16:43
* markey has coffee16:43
markeyanyway, Agile development ftw16:44
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
apacheloggerhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=131211416:48
apacheloggerhttp://digg.com/linux_unix/Announcing_Project_Timelord_Kubuntu/16:49
apacheloggerdigg is so 90's :P16:50
apacheloggeremonkey: about the donations thingy you were suggesting ... since canonical owns the kubuntu trademark I would suppose money goes there :P16:53
apacheloggerbesides, I wouldn't know who'd manage the money16:54
apacheloggerbut yeah, maybe a donation system of some sort would make sense16:54
apachelogger*shrug*16:54
RiddellLex79!16:56
Lex79ohi16:56
Riddellwhither Qt?16:56
Lex79buld fine, install fine, but I have to rewrite lzma, qtjambi and pot rules to use dh 716:57
Lex79debian switched to dh 7 in qt 4.616:58
seeleRiddell: pretty pretty please can we work on printing for lucid?16:58
ScottKPlease don't break anything.16:59
seeleprinting management ui still needs some love16:59
Daskreechmarkey: isn't that solved for KDE 4.4 ?16:59
Riddellseele: finish the system-config-printer-kde would be lovely yes16:59
Lex79ScottK: you speak with me ? :)16:59
RiddellLex79: can you put what you have into bzr?16:59
markeyDaskreech: oh I wouldn't know, I'm not using trunk currently, sorry :)17:00
markeytoo busy17:00
Lex79yes, moment, I'm just returned to home17:00
ScottKLex79: What's up?17:06
* ScottK is just about to head out for meetings, so unless it's quick, we'll need to do it later.17:06
apacheloggerScottK: he meant whether you were talking to him when you said that he shouldnt break anything17:07
ScottKOh.  No.17:07
ScottKAlthough I'm in favor of him not breaking anything, I meant about the printing.  It just works here and I'd like that to continue.17:08
ScottKI've had network printing setup fails here with both Windows (don't ask) and OS X and our stuff just works.17:08
RiddellScottK: the printing stuff is just completing the port from gnome and switching to seele's UI, so it shouldn't be much possibility for breakage17:09
seeleScottK: the ui is incomplete, it needs to be finished17:09
seeleafaik the backend is done, we just need to paint it17:09
ScottKOK.  Sounds good.17:09
* seele thinks kubuntu peeps shoudl stop in DC the weekend before Austin :P17:10
ScottKWhen sabdfl said he wanted to match the OS X user experience, I sort of assume he didn't want us to worsen stuff like printing where we're better.17:10
apacheloggerwho knows :D17:11
Quintasanhmm, srsly, is #qt only for writing c++ code? :P17:11
JontheEchidnaobviously he meant getting mac4lin finally through revu and part of the default install :D17:12
Quintasanlol17:12
Quintasan+1 for mac4lin :P17:13
RiddellUDS attendees: please go to https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-l/+attend and click on Register17:14
Quintasan:|17:14
Lex79Riddell: I uploaded qt to bzr17:15
Riddellthanks17:15
Quintasan:/ nspluginviewer crashes each time I open a site with flash, srsly17:24
=== fenris__ is now known as ejat
JontheEchidnaRiddell: kubuntu-default-settings from karmic-proposed works, giving input on the bug17:57
sebasWill KDE 4.3.3 automatically hit karmic?18:18
JontheEchidnahaving a bit of trouble building kdebindings actually, so it'll be a bit late18:19
sebasno problem, was just wondering if I can "just wait" or if I want to go package hunting18:19
sebasI prefer just wait18:20
sebasBesides, it's just out for one hour only18:20
sebas :)18:20
JontheEchidna:)18:20
* sebas does afk things now18:20
JontheEchidnait'll be in a ppa at first, but we will offer it as a regular karmic update soon I think18:20
JontheEchidnawe might still be working out the specifics for that, Scott would probably know better18:21
gnufiedhi folks18:23
Mamarokclaydoh: ping18:24
Mamarokclaydoh: I have not a clue who Steve is talking about in that mail, I searched older mails for "Res" and only found screen resolution stuff18:28
=== dpm is now known as dpm-afk
mcasJontheEchidna: will there be a backported version of kde 4.3.3 for jaunty?18:45
JontheEchidnaprobably not18:45
Lex79JontheEchidna: why I have to do "bzr add files" ? doesn't work automatically? :(18:47
JontheEchidnanope :(18:47
Lex79oh my god :(18:47
JontheEchidnadoing bzr add by itself will add all the files in the directory though18:47
Lex79just do "bzr add" ?18:48
JontheEchidnajust make sure you don't have anything unwanted in there, and "bzr add"18:48
Lex79ok try18:48
Lex79JontheEchidna: uhm Qt4/4.6.0/ubuntu$ bzr add18:50
Lex79adding .directory18:50
Lex79:(18:50
JontheEchidnabzr remove .directory18:50
Lex79JontheEchidna: but it add only .directory and not the files I want to add (various lintian files)18:51
JontheEchidnawhat does "bzr add debian" do?18:51
Lex79nothing18:52
JontheEchidnaare you sure the files aren't already added? maybe do a bzr commit and see if they show up as new files and not unknown files?18:52
Lex79I'll download again bzr branch and I'll retry18:53
Lex79JontheEchidna: done, thanks :)19:05
JontheEchidnayou're welcome :)19:05
Lex79Riddell: I reupload qt, I rewrite rules for lzma compression and for cleaning po, I added TODO.Kubuntu file19:39
DaskreechAnyone up that has acces to the Timelord doc?19:45
DaskreechError in the paragraph speaking about Pre 10.0419:49
Daskreech• Announce Project Timelord to the world! his will include:19:49
=== Daskreech changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: the distro with good looking developers | No Todo link! Take a load off! | 9.10 Released, Woo! \o/
=== Daskreech changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: the distro with good looking developers | No Todo link! Take a load off! | 9.10 Released, Woo! \o/ | Timelord is GO! Rewrite https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu to reflect this
slacker_nlif i want to help with timelord.. where do i start?19:52
Daskreechslacker_nl: Look at Helping Kubuntu wiki page and tear out old junk19:54
slacker_nlhehe, writing docs, my favorite pastime19:54
DaskreechIf you would like to have a link to a wiki page of Doktors and put yourself on it we wouldn't mind either :)19:55
Daskreechslacker_nl: This is unwriting docs :)19:55
slacker_nllol19:55
slacker_nllemme have a look first :)19:55
DaskreechBut seriously though that landing page should be kept quite lean and channel people where needed19:55
DaskreechWE have a lot of things on the timelord project each of which is fairly detailed19:56
Daskreech we should have page s for each of them with statuses of what needs to be done and what is currently being done19:56
DaskreechHelpingKubuntu should be a quick way to get to more detailed TODOs while giving an overview19:57
DaskreechTalking about how much we need help with adept isn't helping19:57
DaskreechAlso a list of people who come and actually help with Project Timelord will be good in terms of recognition of the community around Kubuntu as well as being able to track who did what19:58
slacker_nlbrb19:58
MsMacoJontheEchidna: you, with the puns!19:59
MsMacohad to put a Rose joke in there, eh?20:00
MsMacoi *facepalm*d at that20:00
JontheEchidnaI don't think I was trying to make any Rose puns. What'd I do?20:01
* apachelogger runs around in swimming trunks20:01
apacheloggerdarn radiator radiates like 3 billion degrees20:01
MsMacoJontheEchidna: look into the heart of the tardis? reborn? you mean like when she brought jack back to life?20:02
JontheEchidnaoh, that. haha20:02
apacheloggerhrrr20:02
apacheloggerjack20:02
apachelogger:D20:02
MsMaco<3 jack20:02
JontheEchidnaMsMaco: more like when that slitheen looked into the heart of the tardis and was reborn into an egg20:02
MsMacooh!20:02
MsMacowhy DID that happen differently to them, anyway?20:02
MsMacothat didnt make sense. maybe the heart of the tardis has a mind of its own and decides what to do to folks20:03
JontheEchidnatardis is telepathic, maybe it knew what their desires were20:03
apacheloggerand there are enough references to the tardis some kind of being20:03
JontheEchidnathough20:04
apacheloggerNightrose: ping ping20:04
JontheEchidnaif Kubuntu looked into the tardis and became an all-powerful entity I'd be quite scared20:04
apacheloggerNightrose: ping ping ppppping ping ping20:05
Nightroseapachelogger: pong pong honey20:05
* apachelogger takes Nightrose for a dance20:07
DaskreechMsMaco: It's like the sorting hat in Hogwarts :)20:07
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: can you please revise the ContactUs page20:08
Daskreechapachelogger: Just made my announcement :)20:08
apacheloggerI think differing by category rather than media makes more sense20:08
apacheloggerDaskreech: what announcement?20:08
* Nightrose dances with apachelogger20:08
apacheloggerand where and huh?20:08
* apachelogger is all uninformed20:08
Daskreechapachelogger: dentica20:09
apacheloggerDaskreech: not understanding a word :P20:09
apacheloggermust be that fancy dentica slang20:09
Daskreechapachelogger: http://identi.ca/conversation/13658881#notice-1368021420:09
apacheloggeryeah, I dont understand the message20:10
Daskreech:-)20:10
Daskreechask your dance partner20:10
apacheloggerNightrose: honey, whats does hes means?20:10
apacheloggerso20:11
Daskreechapachelogger: oh bugfix for the Timelord doc20:11
apacheloggerany conceptual ideas for the helpingkubuntu page?20:11
Daskreechapachelogger: landing page20:11
DaskreechHeavy Timelord focus20:11
DaskreechNo Adept20:11
Nightroseapachelogger: i think he wants to create a group for timelord on identi.ca20:11
DaskreechNightrose: No I did already20:11
apacheloggerah, sounds like a good idea20:11
DaskreechIt's called !doktor20:11
* apachelogger pets Daskreech20:12
Daskreechmostly so I can make an alias of !doktoring20:12
Daskreechwhich I already did ;-)20:12
NightroseDaskreech: ah ok - i should read the whole conversation...20:12
Nightrose;-)20:12
apacheloggerDaskreech: needs pik20:12
DaskreechSo you can say you are currently doktoring bugs or you are going to doktor an app20:12
Daskreechapachelogger: gimmie pik20:13
Daskreechapachelogger: better yet you are now the adminstratot20:13
Daskreechadminstrator20:13
apacheloggeroh noes20:13
apacheloggerI have no clue of all that crap :P20:14
DaskreechThere is a tab that says logo :) it has one button it's not hard to figure out :-D20:14
Daskreechbut I don't have anything for there20:14
Daskreechunless someone has a foto of a blue TARDIS?20:14
Daskreechperchanchenhaps?20:15
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/ContactUs20:15
Daskreechapachelogger: I'm assuming that since the Timelord announcement is in ~apachlogger you have access to it? :)20:15
apacheloggerDaskreech: we could use a pic of Nightrose20:15
DaskreechI can't handle that kind of flood20:16
DaskreechOooooh Nightrose in a doctor suit20:16
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: much better ... now link to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/ContactUs#Development in the kubuntu.org announcement20:16
DaskreechI'd like that better than a Blue TARDIS20:16
Nightrosedudes!20:17
Nightroseno pics of me in a doctor suit20:17
Nightrose;-)20:17
Daskreechawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww20:17
Daskreechpleaaaase :)20:17
apacheloggerI actually were thinking without the suit anyway :P20:17
DaskreechWow20:17
* Nightrose pokes apachelogger20:17
DaskreechFun fact the First TARDIS ws blue20:17
* apachelogger hugs Nightrose20:17
Nightrose;-)20:17
* apachelogger drafts up new helpingkubuntu page20:18
DaskreechJust wearing a doctor?20:18
apachelogger= Kubuntu Love Train =20:18
JontheEchidnaoh my20:18
Daskreechhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/TARDIS2.jpg20:19
apacheloggermakes me remember, next talk I do, I must do an equally offensive statement as the dictator's20:19
DaskreechAnyone seconds this approval assuming that Nightrose doesn't supply a pic of her wearing a doctor?20:19
NightroseDaskreech: go for it20:20
Nightroseapachelogger: and don't forget not to apologize ;-)20:20
apacheloggerwell, I'll have to do it about men anyway20:21
* Daskreech does magic with KIO20:21
apacheloggerjust to see if anyone gives a shit20:21
* Daskreech hugs KDE20:21
Daskreechhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Earls_Court_Police_Box.jpg Is snazzier20:22
Daskreechcourse the first one being more beat up may be part of the messgae :-/20:22
Daskreechmessage even20:23
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu/New20:26
apacheloggerI need pix20:26
* apachelogger removes useless stuff to start with freshish content20:26
JontheEchidnawe can use oxygen bug icon for bug triage20:27
apachelogger * Translate. KDE stuff should be in Rosetta soon, available for translation.20:28
apacheloggerroflor20:28
DaskreechI shall return!20:28
apacheloggerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6t692kpqhs20:35
apacheloggerexterminate20:35
* slacker_nl slaps mailman20:35
slacker_nldo the kubuntu mailinglists require admin approval?20:40
apacheloggerslacker_nl: no20:41
slacker_nlweird20:41
apacheloggerbut you need to be subscribed when posting to kubuntu-devel20:41
apacheloggerotherwise it will get rejected20:41
slacker_nli subscribed earlier today to kubuntu-users and now to kubuntu-devel but no dice..20:41
slacker_nlno confirm messages20:41
JontheEchidnahrhr, https://www.ohloh.net/p/kubuntu-linux20:51
JontheEchidnaapparently kubuntu is written mostly in ruby :D20:51
apacheloggergo kubuntu go20:52
* skreech boogies on down20:53
apacheloggerwth https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PackagingGuide/KDE20:54
Mamarokslacker_nl: what mail adress so I can check the kubuntu-users ML?20:56
slacker_nlMamarok: issue at my isp/employee20:56
slacker_nlyou probably got bounces @ ubuntu-mailings@opperschaap.net20:57
Mamarokno, I didn't20:58
slacker_nlk, eitherway, problem located, now see if i can poke someone to fix it20:58
Mamarokslacker_nl: still, that adress is not in the subscriber list of kubuntu-users20:59
Mamarokbut since you probably didn't confirm it... :)21:00
slacker_nlmakes sense :)21:00
Mamarokjust ping me if you want me to subscribe you21:00
slacker_nli want to be subscribed to kubuntu-devel21:01
slacker_nli'll try it again tomorrow21:01
Mamaroknot my range then, I do kubuntu-users only :)21:01
apacheloggerryanakca: did I point out that the headers are not very different in the wiki21:02
apacheloggerh2 and h3 are not exactly to be told apart21:02
apacheloggerat least I dont manage to21:02
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
apacheloggermeh21:07
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved21:07
apacheloggerI am lost21:07
apacheloggerI HATE THAT FREAKING WIKI21:07
JontheEchidnawait... didn't we just overhault a page like that?21:08
apacheloggercant we just throw a tzar bomb on that thing21:08
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: helpingkubuntu vs. kubuntu/gettinginvolved21:08
apacheloggerI am getting the creeps21:08
JontheEchidna:S21:08
ryanakcaapachelogger: I'm fixing it in Debian, and I can't upload it to mentors.debian.net because it won't let me change my GPG key.21:09
apacheloggerso?21:09
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: sox2 ... what do we do there21:10
* apachelogger wants the wiki to explode21:10
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: redirect helpingkubuntu to kubuntu/gettinginvolved?21:10
apacheloggerI suppose the latter is more consistent with the other naming scheme21:10
JontheEchidnayeah, it is21:11
JontheEchidnaredirecting sounds fine21:11
ryanakcaapachelogger: They wanted a link to the dsc :)21:12
Mamarokok, bed time for me21:12
apacheloggerhelpingubuntu vs. contributingtoubuntu21:12
apacheloggersrsly21:12
apacheloggerthat is no fun21:12
apacheloggerMamarok: nini, sleep tight21:12
apacheloggerryanakca: oh, Ill archive then21:13
Mamarokapachelogger: If I manage to, markey is already snoring...21:13
apacheloggerryanakca: next time leave a comment, not that someone does an unnecessary revu :P21:13
apacheloggerMamarok: hehe :)21:13
Mamarokgood night everyone :)21:13
ryanakcaapachelogger: OK, will do :)21:13
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: think we could get nookie to do some fancy timelord graphics?21:14
slacker_nlMamarok: gn21:14
JontheEchidnaprobably, if we ask21:14
* apachelogger tells JontheEchidna to ask, since apachelogger is too shy21:14
JontheEchidnalol21:14
JontheEchidnanookie^: think you could whip up some fancy graphics for project timelord? :)21:15
nookie^JontheEchidna: whats time lord and what's needed to be done there?21:18
JontheEchidnahttp://www.kubuntu.org/news/timelord21:18
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: what needs done?21:18
slacker_nlyay, subscribed to the mailing list21:18
apacheloggerif only I knew21:19
apacheloggermaybe some badge thingy saying "I am contributing to timelord"21:19
apacheloggerbetter yet "I am a Timelord"21:19
apacheloggerand probably some general banner to use on web pages21:19
JontheEchidnaLex79: think we could move over the phonon transitional packages to qt4-x11?21:20
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: actually what is present at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved looks kinda usable right away21:20
nookie^JontheEchidna: reading21:20
apacheloggerjust need to make the subpages make sense21:20
nookie^JontheEchidna: this is awesome idea, alot of things could be improved21:21
nookie^i have alot of them21:22
nookie^:D21:22
JontheEchidnanookie^: yeah, we were thinking that maybe you could make some logos or badges for it?21:22
nookie^JontheEchidna: sure i can do that21:22
JontheEchidnathanks a lot21:22
Lex79JontheEchidna: Debian in qt 4.6 builds phonon metapackage, I didn't add it for now, but yes for your question21:22
nookie^is there any way i can contribute with things which could be improved later on?21:22
nookie^i mean ideas.. coding is not my part =)21:23
JontheEchidnanookie^: we still need to figure out what we are doing branding and artwork wise, but we will definitely let you know (It'd be great if you gave your input while we plan too)21:23
JontheEchidnaLex79: It would be nice if we could move over the phonon metapackage and transitional package, then I can remove them from the phonon-backends package21:24
Lex79JontheEchidna: yes, I didn't add because it called "phonon", and we have still phonon package in repository21:25
nookie^JontheEchidna: sure just let me know.. if there are any meetings or stuff just let me know aswell21:25
Lex79JontheEchidna: so we should remove them before build phonon metapackage from qt 4.6, right?21:25
JontheEchidnaLex79: ok, I'm fixing that with my phonon-backend merge. Let's both make the changes then do the uploads together21:25
Lex79ok21:26
JontheEchidna(phonon package moved to phonon-backends package, I'm doing the first merge)21:26
Lex79JontheEchidna: btw I've to fix a pair of issues before doing that :(, we have time21:27
JontheEchidnano hurry :)21:27
Lex79good21:27
JontheEchidnawe will get equalizer support in amarok with the new phonon though :)21:28
Lex79qt4 merging is so complicated because Debian switched to dh 721:28
Lex79awesome21:28
apacheloggernookie^: you can just bounce ideas on how to improve stuff in kubuntu on the kubuntu-devel mailing list21:30
nookie^apachelogger: sure i will do that =)21:31
nookie^must leave now21:31
nookie^see ya!21:31
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development opinions on that structure approach?21:34
JontheEchidnalooks saneish21:35
Lex79Kubuntu ninja before master of the universe I think :P21:36
apacheloggerNightrose: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development what do you think?21:37
JontheEchidnagood point lex21:37
apacheloggerLex79: technically that is a career of it's own21:37
* Nightrose looks21:37
apacheloggertechnically you don't need much of any official position within ubuntu to be kubuntu ninja21:37
Lex79ah yes21:38
apacheloggerof course then you will always be subject to some core dev poking around in your changes21:38
Nightroseapachelogger: how about adding a "why it rocks" section?21:39
Nightrose"why it matter"21:39
apacheloggerRiddell: you are talking in 20 arent you?21:39
Nightroses21:39
apacheloggerNightrose: I was thinking we should communicate this via the description21:39
Nightrosei'd make it very explicit21:40
Nightrosebullet points21:40
apacheloggerthough maybe the why it rocks section could hold infos on what you learn and get out of that job21:40
Nightroseyea21:40
apacheloggerlike with packaging you learn a big deal about QA, if you listen to apachelogger every once in a while :P21:40
Nightrosehaha21:40
Riddellapachelogger: goodness, so I am, best think up something to say21:41
apacheloggeroh my21:41
NightroseRiddell: talk about pink ponies and ninjas - they'll love you21:41
* apachelogger hands Riddell his last cup of tea21:41
apacheloggerponies!21:42
apacheloggerand the doctor21:42
Riddelltoo late, I've alread had three beers, I'm long past tea21:42
Riddellpink ponies what have they ever done for us?21:42
apacheloggeroh dear21:42
NightroseRiddell: made us smile of course21:42
Nightrosebrought happy to the world21:42
apacheloggeryeah21:42
apacheloggerthey look Qt21:42
Nightrosethat too21:42
apacheloggerNightrose: == Why you want to do packaging ==21:42
apacheloggertoo long a title?21:43
Nightroseit is a bit long but okish21:43
* apachelogger likes it long ;)21:43
Nightroserofl21:43
apachelogger== Why it rocks ==21:45
apachelogger * Learn about large scale software deployment21:45
apachelogger * Learn about large scale quality assurance in large scale software deployments21:45
apachelogger * Learn about large scale damage control after failed large scale quality assurance in large scale software deployments21:45
apachelogger:D21:45
slacker_nllol21:45
Nightroseapachelogger: you know - too large can be bad!21:46
Nightrose;-)21:46
apacheloggeryes I do21:46
apacheloggerunfortunately21:46
apacheloggerNightrose: please check again21:50
Nightroseapachelogger: i wouldn't necessarily us the last point in "why it rocks" ;-)21:53
apacheloggerright21:55
apacheloggerforgot to remove :)21:55
apacheloggerNightrose: but the general structure concept should work?21:55
Nightrosei'd say so21:55
* apachelogger thinks it is especiall important to have some people listed to whom people can turn personally21:55
skreechapachelogger: Should we have a wiki page about cleaning up the Wiki :)22:02
apacheloggerno22:03
apacheloggera google doc22:03
apacheloggerthose, unlike them darn moinmoin wiki pages are easy to use and difficult to loose22:03
skreechok Is there a distinction between helping Kubuntu and Project Timelord ?22:07
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development22:23
apacheloggercheck out the ninja career :D22:24
apacheloggerskreech: only if you are a kubuntu legend and need to care about poking people towards a certain area of the things to be done ;)22:24
apacheloggergenerally helping Kubuntu is the ultimate way to implement Project Timelord22:24
apacheloggersince only with the appropriat resources the plan can be made reality22:24
skreechapachelogger: I'm just wondering if we should have a section that has an over view of where we are with project timelord and how you can help with that and a section for just now quick and dirty next release Kubuntu stuff22:26
apacheloggerskreech: dunno, maybe JontheEchidna has an opinion on that22:27
apacheloggermaintaining a status overview is overhead IMHO22:27
apacheloggercompared ot the use at least22:27
apacheloggerbut maybe that is a wrong assumption :)22:27
skreechapachelogger: Overview in terms of Translations? Go here Patch Testing? Go here22:30
apacheloggerskreech: pardon? cannot compute.22:31
skreechWell I would figure that each section of timelord would be detailed enough to warrant it's own page of how to get in and help NAOW22:32
emonkeyapachelogger: Don't you think, there would be a way to make a deal with Canonical? I mean, I don't think that would be a problem if the donations will be invested in kubuntu?22:33
apacheloggerskreech: sure, but someone needs to write that :)22:33
apacheloggeremonkey: well, no, I am just saying, the donations are no good if the kubuntu council can't decide to spend them on a faster machine for Quintasan so he can actually do test building at sensible speed22:34
slacker_nlwhat is the ppa for kde packages (for lucid/karmic)?22:47
=== santiago-ve is now known as Guest87280
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development all done22:54
apacheloggerprobably needs a TOC22:54
JontheEchidnaapachelogger is a career? :P22:55
apacheloggeryus :D22:55
JontheEchidnaA TOC would help22:56
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: toc'ed22:58
slacker_nlRiddell: nice speech23:00
Riddellthanks23:03
RiddellI'm all typed out23:03
slacker_nlget some beers :)23:06
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: do you have some packaging tutorials from dev week or something at hand?23:18
* apachelogger is not exactly up to date on the latest packaging guides23:18
JontheEchidnaI seem to recall doing a KDE packaging session23:18
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: can you please join #kubuntu-netbook23:19
* JontheEchidna looks around for the tut23:19
claydohwow lots of action here today23:30
claydohand I only managed to half-complete a wiki page :/23:31
=== JontheEchidna changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: the distro with good looking developers | No Todo link! Take a load off! | 9.10 Released, Woo! \o/ | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/LucidKDEMerges | Timelord is GO! Rewrite https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu to reflect this
claydohyou folks rock!23:31
RiddellJontheEchidna: when you mark phonon as being in progress what do you mean?  phonon is part of qt423:44
JontheEchidnaRiddell: oh, should be phonon-backends23:45
Riddellah23:45
JontheEchidnawe still build the backends from the phonon package, which debian has changed to be named phonon-backends23:45
JontheEchidnathe binary packages are still the same, so no nastiness there at least23:46
* JontheEchidna needs to update the template for new 4.3 packages23:46
JontheEchidnaRiddell: the transitional packages are moving from phonon-backends to qt4-x11, so the qt and phonon merged will need to be uploaded together23:47
JontheEchidnaI'm coordinating with lex on that23:48
Riddellgroovy23:48
JontheEchidnaalso, is the reorg going to happen this cycle or should I file my core-dev app?23:49
Riddellwell core-dev doesn't hurt even with reorg23:49
RiddellI think reorg will happen with cycle but tech board log from today suggests it hasn't happened yet23:52
JontheEchidnasqueeze has a rediculously old version of kdebluetooth o_o23:53
Riddelllooks like 4.3.3 isn't going to compile tonight :(  guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow23:54
* Riddell snoozes23:54
JontheEchidna:(23:54

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