[00:01] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://apachelog.blogspot.com/2009/11/kubuntus-project-timelord.html useful enough?
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> reading now
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> last line gave me chills <3
[00:03] <apachelogger> hehe
[00:03] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: if you blog tomorrow, please digg a bit into the fun stuff
[00:03] <apachelogger> like explain what's the name about et all
[00:03] <apachelogger> motive people to lend a hand
[00:04] <apachelogger> motivate even
[00:04] <JontheEchidna> will do
[00:04] <apachelogger> ryanakca: thanks a lot for the pic :)
[00:05]  * apachelogger hugs everyone and goes to bed being afraid that he needs to get up in 6 hours for analysis :S
[00:10] <Nightrose> ryanakca: perfect pic
[00:10]  * Nightrose hugs apachelogger good night
[01:00] <LaserJock> is this Project Timelord thing online somewhere?
[01:18] <kb9vqf> LaserJock: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/timelord
[01:41] <yuriy> oy is that official now?
[01:45] <ScottK> Official'ish.
[01:49] <LaserJock> so I don't understand how official it is?
[02:03] <yuriy> official enough to be published but really just proposals for UDS
[02:04] <LaserJock> yuriy: who all wrote it?
[02:04]  * JontheEchidna just finished deleting 300/900 spam comments from his blog, enough for today
[02:04] <LaserJock> is the Kubuntu Council behind it?
[02:05] <yuriy> LaserJock: JontheEchidna and apachelogger
[02:05] <LaserJock> there's some pretty dramatic changes in there
[02:05] <yuriy> i think...
[02:05] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger, ScottK, nixternal, Nightrose and myself were the main brainstormers
[02:06] <JontheEchidna> then it was discussed on the mailing list
[02:06] <JontheEchidna> and announced today after a month or so of work
[02:06] <LaserJock> I don't quite understand the translations thing exactly
[02:06] <LaserJock> don't upstream translations automatically override?
[02:07] <LaserJock> so if there aren't much for Kubuntu translators doesn't that mean it should be pretty much stock KDE?
[02:07] <JontheEchidna> they are stripped from the packages and sent on a trip through rosetta, with varying results
[02:07] <LaserJock> ah, so they're getting messed up in the stripping, processing, re-packaging
[02:08] <JontheEchidna> That trip is not as bad in 10.04 but it still offers another layer of potential failure that is totally unecessary, and takes a good amount of work to keep working
[02:08] <LaserJock> so will KDE be OK with all these Kubuntu bugs going to them?
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> it's been that way until 9.10 actually
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> help -> report bugs has always gone to bugs.kde.org until this release
[02:09] <LaserJock> well
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> and the KDE crash handler still goes to KDE
[02:09] <LaserJock> but the change in bug triaging policy seems more of an issue than the help -> report bugs thing
[02:10] <JontheEchidna> basically it'll make less bugs rot and die in LP
[02:11] <LaserJock> so would you be opening an upstream task and marking the ubuntu task as won't fix?
[02:11] <yuriy> the change in bug triaging policy is mostly implemented anyway. I agree with that part -- it would be *nice* to track everything, but really upstream bugs/wishlists just get in the way
[02:11] <LaserJock> sorry for all the question, I'm just curious about the plan
[02:12] <JontheEchidna> Bug triage actually has a formal spec written up, just a second
[02:12] <JontheEchidna> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-bug-triage-policy-lucid/
[02:12] <LaserJock> well, I guess I'm also interested because it effects Edubuntu too as we ship KDE Edu
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> basically, non-SRUable bugs or bugs with low/wishlist importance will not be tracked
[02:14] <JontheEchidna> since the point of tracking things at LP is for potential SRUs anyway
[02:14] <LaserJock> so the intent here is that Kubuntu shrink the scope of its efforts such that it can do the things it does really well
[02:14] <LaserJock> and then as/if resource grow the scope can grow
[02:14] <JontheEchidna> exactly
[02:14] <JontheEchidna> use resources as efficiently as possible, and scale when possible
[02:15] <LaserJock> Edubuntu has tried to do similar, although I don't think very successfully
[02:15] <LaserJock> but it makes sense if you can pull it off
[02:16] <LaserJock> a potential problem is that the "scaling down to increase quality" can be seen as becoming stale
[02:16] <LaserJock> but I would think that Kubuntu has the critical mass to pull it off and I think Kubuntu users appreciate having a high quality distro
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> this is why we are also pushing recruitment to increase resources
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> so that these don't have to be "forever changes"
[02:17] <JontheEchidna> it will be a delicate balance I'm sure
[02:23] <JontheEchidna> KDE edu is a pretty nice module to maintain bug-wise, thankfully not too many of the beasties
[02:27] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:28] <JontheEchidna> it's more of the kdepim/kdebase/kdebase-workspace triple-combo we're worried about
[02:28] <JontheEchidna> almost 500 bugs from those 3 alone
[02:28] <JontheEchidna> mostly upstream bugs that nobody's found the time to upstream
[02:29] <yuriy> and even that sounds down about twofold from about a year ago
[02:29] <JontheEchidna> I believe when I first started bug triaging kdebase itself had 700
[02:29] <JontheEchidna> that was during the 8.10 dev cycle
[02:30] <JontheEchidna> now it's split between kdebase, kdebase-workspace and kdebase-runtime, but still considerably less
[03:32] <ryanakca> apachelogger, Nightrose: No problem :)
[03:32] <ryanakca> apachelogger: Yeah, the website needs work.
[03:47] <shtylman> I for one welcome our new kubuntu overloards
[03:58] <shtylman> so who wrote this massive document?
[03:59] <ScottK> JontheEchidna and apachelogger are the primary authors
[03:59] <ScottK> Several of use read it over and contributed.
[03:59] <shtylman> very nice
[04:57]  * rgreening was looking for the coles notes
[04:58] <rgreening> j/k
[05:00] <ScottK> What.  Those would've been too long too?
[05:18] <rgreening> lol
[05:23] <ulysses__> I love this projekt, 'Doctor Who' is my favorite
[06:15] <markey> hm
[06:15] <markey> still no chromium builds
[06:15] <markey> anything we can do besides complain?
[06:16] <markey> the complain part I did
[06:16] <markey> I can't help myself, as I'm not a packager
[06:16] <markey> I can kick arses, if that is of any help
[06:16] <markey> (it isn't, right?)
[06:31] <markey> apachelogger: you are my hero
[06:32] <markey> I mean, again
[06:32] <markey> we we hug?
[06:32] <markey> Timelord sounds awesome
[06:32] <markey> even more so if I can contribute some ideas :)
[06:32] <markey> like, getting rid of some of the baggage dictated by Canonical
[06:33] <markey> (PulseAudio...)
[06:33] <markey> (Apport...)
[06:34] <markey> and the Shuttteworth could also give you some of his vast amounts of cash
[06:34] <markey> instead of shipping those silly CDs
[06:34] <markey> that I like to use as Frisbees
[06:36]  * markey will support Timelord every way he can
[08:01] <amik> is there a kubuntu updates changelog somewhere? where I can see which packages were updated and when?
[08:02] <skreech> amik: #ubuntu-devel
[08:02] <amik> ScottK: mkay, sorry
[08:52] <emonkey> apachelogger: Would it be possible to start something like a "Kubuntu Fellowship"? I mean there's a lot to do and several of these things are much easier with some money. I would be glad to be one of the first donators. I think it just have to be clear where this money is going and who manages it. IMO one of the importest things would be to get a clear situation what should be achieved with it and which role does canonical play. (Which
[08:52] <emonkey>  services they want to do and which not.)
[08:58]  * emonkey likes the way how goals are specified for the next releases in the TL-announcement. Looks like there's a strategie
[08:59] <apachelogger> markey: *hug* blog about your POV on timelord please :)
[08:59] <markey> :)
[08:59] <markey> well
[09:00] <markey> apachelogger: first I must be sure about some details of Timelord
[09:00] <markey> e.g. I would love to see a move to a rolling release scheme (at least a hybrid)
[09:00] <markey> I need the latest snapshots of many apps
[09:00] <markey> Chromium, Qt Creator, etc
[09:00] <markey> Arch offers that
[09:01] <apachelogger> can't do
[09:01] <apachelogger> too little resources
[09:01] <markey> well, a hyrid, at least some PPAs
[09:01] <markey> hybrid
[09:01] <apachelogger> well, let me put that right
[09:01] <apachelogger> right now we do not have enough manpower to maintain that kind of stuff
[09:01] <markey> ok, maybe we can get it with better promotion :)
[09:02] <markey> that's one of Timelord's goals anyway
[09:02] <apachelogger> if, which is one of the targets, more people become active contributors, I do think that more snapshot packages are going to be published (that is however pretty much up to the individual contributor)
[09:02] <markey> apachelogger: and then, what's Riddell's position on Timelord?
[09:02] <markey> he's employed by Canonical
[09:03] <apachelogger> he agrees with most of it, but is unsure about the translations issue
[09:03] <markey> that puts him in a morally difficult position ;)
[09:03] <markey> he can't openly criticise Canonical
[09:03] <apachelogger> in fact, translation might be the most controversal topic of them all
[09:03] <markey> and Shuttleworth should give you some of his sacks of gold
[09:03] <markey> man
[09:04] <markey> imho he's very good with getting labour for free
[09:04] <apachelogger> or employ me :P
[09:04] <markey> that's what I mean
[09:04] <markey> but then you also have to do what he says
[09:04] <markey> ...
[09:04] <markey> see the problem?
[09:04] <apachelogger> well
[09:04] <emonkey> we should win euromillions  ... :-)
[09:05] <apachelogger> he'd only want things that improve kubuntu as a product and thus more valuable to canonical I suppose
[09:05] <apachelogger> so in the end it's a win win eitherway
[09:05] <markey> another example: that 1024 files limit. we only have to stick without because of some Ubuntu devs
[09:05] <markey> although Riddell agreed it would make sense to increase the limit
[09:06] <markey> the Ubuntu guys are clueless on that topic
[09:06] <markey> s/without/with it
[09:06] <markey> I type too quickly, too badly
[09:07] <markey> one thing is becoming problematic: more and more developers migrate to Arch
[09:07] <markey> distros need the support of devs
[09:07] <markey> they are a multiplicator
[09:07] <markey> so I think Timelord should make Kubuntu more attractive for developers too
[09:09] <apachelogger> agreed
[09:11] <emonkey> +1
[10:44] <ghostcube> can anyone confirm this one
[10:44] <ghostcube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/466935
[10:45] <ghostcube> the picture is there but its so dark you cant see anything even with 500 watt flood lamp
[10:45] <ghostcube> i tested
[10:45] <ghostcube> -_-
[10:47] <ghostcube> how can i gdb the printer applet
[10:48] <ghostcube> just start it with py applet.py ?
[10:51] <jussi01> Been thinking a little, maybe we could have a register of people who volunteer to list their hardware, so if a problem turns up, then it can be tagged with that peice of hw and all the people who own that are notified and can test fixes or problems. could be part of your lp profile. (needs more thinking I know, but thats the general idea)
[10:53] <Nightrose> jussi01: i like
[10:54] <ghostcube> jussi01: sounds good
[10:55] <ghostcube> anyone can code gkrellm to use asus atk010 o.O
[10:55] <ghostcube> hehe
[10:56] <jussi01> hrr, who changed lspci output?
[10:57]  * jussi01 grumbles...
[10:57] <ghostcube> who coded grub2
[10:57]  * ghostcube is getting angry
[10:58] <ghostcube> i think i will just do a new install and kick it grml
[11:27] <apachelogger> jussi01: that is the ol ubuntu hardware db + poke feature
[11:27] <jussi01> apachelogger: so it exists? link pls?
[11:27] <apachelogger> google
[11:27] <apachelogger> all the links youll ever need :P
[11:31] <apachelogger> http://www.pubbs.net/ubuntu/200911/2746/
[11:31] <apachelogger> you see why I find our wiki pages highly inefficient
[11:31] <apachelogger> you go somehwere, get lost and give up
[11:31] <apachelogger> and I think that happens about 99% of the time someone wants some information from the wiki
[11:33] <neverendingo> hey kubuntu devs, i was told by Mamarok i should tell you that the karmic release is the best release i have ever seen. never worked so great for me! thanks for that!
[11:33] <Mamarok> good boy :)
[11:33] <Mamarok> !cookie | neverendingo
[11:33] <Riddell> awooga!
[11:34]  * apachelogger hugs neverendingo and hands him a cuppa tea
[11:34] <neverendingo> seriously, awesome
[11:46] <Riddell> that'll be the archive open
[11:48] <apachelogger> that was fast
[11:48] <apachelogger> didn;t it always take like a week or more
[11:49] <Riddell> not usually
[11:49] <Riddell> just depends how quick doko is with the toolchain
[11:49] <Riddell> hmm, but where is lex and his qt
[11:49] <ryanakca> Sync/merge time?
[11:49] <Riddell> yep
[11:50] <Riddell> we need a wiki page to track the main packagse
[11:50] <jussi01> when is alpha 1 scheduled?
[11:50] <Riddell> december
[11:50] <ryanakca> Also, anybody know why Kubuntu has a different knmap tarball than Debian?
[11:50] <Riddell> there's only three alphas this time, and two betas
[11:51] <Riddell> ryanakca: because we uploaded first maybe?
[11:51]  * apachelogger updates kontrolpack
[11:51] <jussi01> Riddell: o.O
[11:52] <ryanakca> Riddell: OK
[11:52] <neversfelde> kcm-touchpad crashes systemsettings :(
[11:52]  * jussi01 upgrades apachelogger...
[11:52] <apachelogger> who is pushing kcm-touchpad into lucid anyway?
[11:52] <jussi01> new improved version! :P
[11:53]  * apachelogger switches to upgrade mode
[11:53] <jussi01> now with sleepless nights! :P
[11:53] <Riddell> apachelogger: dare I ask what kontrolpack is?
[11:53] <apachelogger> !info kontrolpack
[11:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: kind of remote node management thingy thing
[11:54] <Riddell> ah yes, I remember, the thingy thing
[11:55] <apachelogger> oh dear
[11:55] <apachelogger> -.-
[11:55] <apachelogger> upstream aint got no clue of tarball making
[11:55] <apachelogger> I even asked him to script it, so that he could avoid reintroducing stuff I bitched about earlier
[11:57] <apachelogger> lol
[11:57] <apachelogger> src/COPYING -> src/copying
[11:57] <apachelogger> :D
[11:57]  * apachelogger writes mail
[12:24] <slacker_nl> hi, just read something about the timelord project
[12:25] <slacker_nl> what can one do to help?
[12:27] <ghostcube> hmm nah intrepid was best ever
[12:27] <ghostcube> not karmic :D
[12:28] <slacker_nl> i disagree
[12:28] <ghostcube> slacker_nl: depends on what bugs you notice
[12:29] <ghostcube> and if they are bigger than on older revs
[12:29] <ghostcube> :)
[12:29] <ghostcube> for youreself
[12:29] <slacker_nl> ghostcube: i ran into issues at intrepid, which i don't have with karmic
[12:29] <ghostcube> for me its the opposite
[12:29] <ghostcube> heh
[12:29] <ghostcube> :)
[12:30] <slacker_nl> think it is different for almost everyone
[12:30] <slacker_nl> doesn't matter, lucid will set the record straight
[12:30] <ghostcube> the uvc error drives me nuts
[12:30] <ghostcube>  i ned my webcam
[12:30] <Riddell> hmm, "Getting KDE 4 ready for LTS - JonathanRiddell" on the UbuntuOpenWeek timetable, wonder what I should talk about
[12:30] <ghostcube> and i need to use windows now for it
[12:31] <ulysses__> intresting, I wait for it Riddell :)
[12:32] <ghostcube> Riddell: hmmm that you are a good looking developer and john not
[12:32] <ghostcube> :D
[12:32] <slacker_nl> lol
[12:32] <ghostcube> maybe this would bring an cool discussion
[12:32] <ghostcube> :D
[12:32] <ulysses__> :D
[12:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: just talk about canoeing sure will be more intersting :)
[12:38] <slacker_nl> Riddell: maybe talk about eh timelord project, and what that will mean for lts??
[12:38] <Riddell> that's roughly my plan
[12:39] <JontheEchidna> man, stupid daylight savings really messes with one's sleep schedule
[12:39] <slacker_nl> JontheEchidna: i agree
[12:39] <ulysses__> 22:00 UTC, it means 23:00 local time:/
[12:40] <slacker_nl> although with wintertime i get an hour more sleep
[12:41] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: btw, I changed the spec approver for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-bug-triage-policy-lucid to Riddell
[12:42] <apachelogger> I noticed :D
[12:42] <JontheEchidna> should we work suspension of apport into that, or should it go into a more generic lucid-software-development type spec?
[12:42] <JontheEchidna> I'm thinking the latter
[12:43] <apachelogger> yeah, latter I'd say
[12:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: kaudiocreator went from version 3.5.10 to 1.2.81 ... any suggestions on what to do in the packaging?
[12:45] <Riddell> that's what epoch's are for but worth checking with debian to make sure we don't get out of sync
[12:46] <apachelogger> longish longish mails
[12:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: the thing is we are already at epoch 4 since it came from poor ol kdemultimedia
[12:48] <Riddell> there's always a higher epoch :)
[12:49] <apachelogger> sure, just saying, should it ever get back into kdemultimedia
[12:49] <apachelogger> then kdemm also needs to go up to 5
[12:49] <Riddell> that's why we need to check with debian
[12:52] <Riddell> although if it's anything like qt they'll be indecisive for a while before doing something different than us :)
[12:53] <apachelogger> well
[12:53] <apachelogger> we could still go out of sync
[12:54] <apachelogger> kac for kde4 is unstable
[12:54] <apachelogger> so debian will not want to replace the KDE 3 just now
[12:54] <apachelogger> which means we will have kac with 5:1.x and debian 4:3.5.9
[12:54] <apachelogger> now
[12:54] <JontheEchidna> whoa, lucid's open
[12:54] <apachelogger> should kac become part of kdemultimedia again, before debian adopts a version of 5:1.x
[12:55] <apachelogger> debian will pursue 4:xxxx
[12:55] <apachelogger> we however will have to increment kdemultimedia to 5:xxxx, getting us out of sync
[12:57] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: what else is new :P
[12:57]  * apachelogger sends JontheEchidna to his blog
[12:57] <apachelogger> use yer nu wordpress powas wisely!
[12:57] <apachelogger> meanwhile I try to find something to eat
[13:01]  * JontheEchidna began composing last night
[13:06] <JontheEchidna> blog'd, now on to packaging stuff for lucid
[13:10]  * Riddell still massaging 4.3.3 for karmic
[13:10] <Riddell> but we need a Lucid version of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KarmicKDEMerges
[13:10] <Riddell> and I think you have a wiki page with a big patches table somewhere
[13:22] <JontheEchidna> I do in fact
[13:22] <JontheEchidna> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/LucidPatchReview
[13:24] <JontheEchidna> the rosetta comments are obviously contingent on what we end up doing for 10.04, so no need to worry about those for the moment
[13:26] <apachelogger> tea time!
[13:26]  * apachelogger brews some white tea
[13:26] <Riddell> NCommander: would you fancy upping the build score of some of our packages so we have KDE 4.3.3 ready in time?
[13:27] <NCommander> Riddell, sure, PM me the list, I'll bump them after the mobile meeting
[13:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: kubuntu_04_add_langpack_path can not be dropped even if rosetta support gets kicked
[13:27] <apachelogger> kubuntu apps would njot get translations via langpacks then
[13:28] <JontheEchidna> I'll mark that as keep then
[13:28] <apachelogger> kubuntu_64_rosetta_translations
[13:28] <apachelogger> that too
[13:28] <apachelogger> though it needs a more useful name :P
[13:28]  * apachelogger aint got no clue what it contains, but it sure needs to stick around
[13:30] <apachelogger> kubuntu_68_remove_applet_confirmation is defenitely upstreamable, I would suppose it is in KDE's interest that the user can not remove important stuff by accident
[13:30] <apachelogger> question is just how much work needs to be put into it to make it scale well and all
[13:31]  * apachelogger starts kteatimer
[13:31] <apachelogger> teatime even :)
[13:34]  * apachelogger pours a cup of tea for JontheEchidna, Riddell and himself
[13:34] <apachelogger> anyone else?
[13:35]  * JontheEchidna eats an english muffin with his tea
[13:35]  * apachelogger notes to agree with modestas
[13:35] <Riddell> can I have a scone with it?
[13:36] <apachelogger> all them crappy epochs are hell
[13:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: don't have any, and poor ol kubotu is still travelling the intarwebs :|
[13:37] <Riddell> I think I'll upload this plasma-widget-networkmanagement update into staging
[13:37] <Riddell> should fix GSM and VPN support
[13:37] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[13:38] <apachelogger> VPN
[13:38] <apachelogger> I was quite surprised, the vpn stuff actually works with what is in karmic
[13:38] <apachelogger> well, kinda
[13:39] <apachelogger> it only connects if you provide passwords beforehand and you cant disconnect once connected... but other than that
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> bug 446180
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> I'm fairly sure that that is a lack of a dependency on python-kde4
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> gnomies who have kde stuff installed but not kubuntu then update, and bam
[13:42]  * apachelogger never liked kubuntu
[13:42] <apachelogger> eh
[13:42]  * apachelogger never liked gnome
[13:42] <apachelogger> :P
[13:42] <markey> Oo
[13:42]  * apachelogger hands markey a cup of tea
[13:42] <Riddell> ahem
[13:45] <markey> has Timelord sparked discussion on the Ubuntu lists too?
[13:45] <markey> I only read kubuntu-devel
[13:45] <apachelogger> nope
[13:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: did you get a chance to review the bug mgmt policy yet?
[13:46]  * seele doesnt quite understand what timelord is
[13:46] <seele> is it a vision document? or QA strategy?
[13:47] <apachelogger> both
[13:47] <apachelogger> both+more
[13:47] <apachelogger> a todo possbily
[13:47]  * apachelogger is not sure how to describe timelord with one word :)
[13:47] <sebas> apachelogger: the "and I want ponies!!!!!" comments on your blog are plain awful
[13:48] <apachelogger> sebas: but if they want ponies? :D
[13:48] <sebas> WIth one word, probably "vision" fits best
[13:49] <sebas> apachelogger: then they can still go and f themselves
[13:49] <apachelogger> hehe
[13:49]  * sebas hates that, you talk about something and everybody shows up with their pet peeves and wants to influence your agenda
[13:49] <yuriy> we can give fluffy bunnies once a year, close enough?
[13:49] <sebas> f= fork obviously ;)
[13:49]  * apachelogger just will turn it aroud next time
[13:49]  * markey moderates troll comments strictly on his own blogs
[13:49] <sebas> Those aren't trolls
[13:50] <markey> no mean, if there are some
[13:50] <markey> haven't checked
[13:50] <apachelogger> got enough such pony comments to get at least 20 new kubuntu contributors
[13:50] <sebas> it's "we think we need to improve a, b, and c" and they go "but x, y, z is most important (because I think it is)"
[13:50] <markey> going jogging, bbl
[13:50] <apachelogger> so I just need to poke them in the eye or something
[13:50] <JontheEchidna> With lack of a better place to voice their peeves, they resort to finding the closest place where they can do so. (In most cases being blogs)
[13:50] <sebas> there's a better place
[13:51] <JontheEchidna> well it has to be easy too. they are lazy :D
[13:51] <JontheEchidna> everybody's an armchair free software expert, but nobody wants to leave the armchair
[13:51] <JontheEchidna> imo
[13:52] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I think we should get started on the support policy?
[13:53] <sebas> JontheEchidna: as long as people don't pitch in, I care very little what they want
[13:53] <JontheEchidna> sebas: same here :)
[13:54] <sebas> I want enough myself to warrant having 72hour-days
[13:54] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I was thinking that the upstream communications are more pressing, now that people know that we should be doing it
[13:54] <sebas> + sleep, food and other overhead like social life
[13:55]  * apachelogger hugs sebas
[13:55] <apachelogger> enough upstream communication? :P
[13:55] <JontheEchidna> lol
[13:55] <sebas> that's not called collaboration :)
[13:55] <sebas> (still appreciated :P)
[13:57]  * apachelogger thinks that Hydrogen might get jealous if apachelogger were to collaborate with someone else :P
[13:59] <Riddell> "Authorization Approved" yay!
[13:59] <Riddell> "Your travel authorization has been approved and you are authorized to travel to the United States "  Dallas here I come
[14:00] <\sh> Meeting with J.R. Ewing ,-)
[14:01] <falktx> hi there
[14:01] <falktx> I just heard about Timelord
[14:01] <falktx> I want in
[14:02] <falktx> I know some debian packaging
[14:02] <falktx> python
[14:02] <falktx> and PyQT
[14:02] <falktx> What do you think I can do to help?
[14:02] <falktx> (I'm already reading the full spec)
[14:04] <JontheEchidna> that was fast :)
[14:06] <JontheEchidna> falktx: if you're up to it, software-properties (PyQt) needs a bit of loving (bug 102773, bug 116445)
[14:06] <ulysses__> I want also join, I translated the Kubuntu Documentation for Karmic, and want to contribute more
[14:06] <JontheEchidna> they fall into the "embarassingly old" category there ;-)
[14:07]  * Riddell hugs ulysses__ and falktx 
[14:07] <Riddell> ulysses__: are you any good at writing docs?  there's plenty that need Kubuntu-ified
[14:08] <ulysses__> I don't speak english very good, but I do everything I can
[14:08] <ulysses__> I am the coordinator of hungarian community documentation team o.O
[14:08] <JontheEchidna> your written english is better than a lot of what I see from native speakers on the internet
[14:08] <ulysses__> thanks
[14:09] <Riddell> ulysses__: for example this page could do with a Kubuntu version being made https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall
[14:09] <ulysses__> sometimes I write news to the hungarian LoCo site about Kubuntu (now working on Project Timelord translation)
[14:09] <falktx> i'll look into software-properties
[14:09] <JontheEchidna> anybody up for a revu of my new package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6970
[14:10] <falktx> i'm waiting too for a revu, be patient
[14:11] <JontheEchidna> :)
[14:11] <falktx> i'll use my PPA for software-properties changes
[14:11] <falktx> https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/ppa/
[14:11] <ulysses__> Riddell: OK, I'll write it
[14:11] <JontheEchidna> falktx: what package are you currrently waiting for a revu for?
[14:13] <falktx> qtsixa
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> oh, that sixaxis manager
[14:13] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: there is some other crap in the admin dir
[14:13] <apachelogger> check some old kde3 package form me
[14:14] <apachelogger> IIRC there is some 100% free part, more free than GPL or something
[14:14] <JontheEchidna> ah, copyrights...
[14:14] <JontheEchidna> every packager's favorite part
[14:14] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: complete copy of lgpl is missing
[14:14] <falktx> jontheEchidna - can you revu that?
[14:14] <JontheEchidna> falktx: yeah
[14:15] <falktx> thanks
[14:15] <falktx> why does software-properties translations works for me?
[14:15] <falktx> I don't see any language bug
[14:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: Tomas Mecir also holds a considerable amount of copyright
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I have him in debian/copyright, I thought
[14:17] <apachelogger> Upstream Author: Tomas Mecir <kmuddy@kmuddy.com>
[14:17] <apachelogger> that does not replace a copyright statement :P
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> oh, whoops
[14:18] <JontheEchidna> I never replaced Marcel Hasler with him
[14:18] <apachelogger> falktx: what revu are you waiting on?
[14:19] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: qtsixa
[14:19] <apachelogger> no clue what that is :D
[14:19] <falktx> Sixaxis Joystick Manager
[14:20] <apachelogger> right
[14:20] <falktx> allows to connect sixaxis wirelessly
[14:20] <falktx> and using hal to make it as mouse/keyboard
[14:20] <apachelogger> falktx: 1) ~ppax is no part of a valid version number for official archives 2) your package is a native package, which is not valid for archives either
[14:20] <apachelogger> well, unless it is really a native software created for ubuntu or kubuntu obviously :D
[14:21] <falktx> do I just need to remove the ppa thing?
[14:21] <apachelogger> yes
[14:21] <apachelogger> and you need to rename the tarball
[14:21] <apachelogger> in fact when you run debuild it should warn you
[14:21] <JontheEchidna> Do we want Conflicts on ppa versions in the archive?
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> e.g. Conflicts: qt-sixa (<= 0.4.3-falktx1)
[14:22] <falktx> that was my previous made releases
[14:22] <falktx> I changed the name qt-sixa to qtsixa
[14:22] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: not unless it is a kubuntu ppa :D
[14:22] <falktx> that allows good updates
[14:23] <apachelogger> falktx: http://paste.ubuntu.com/308533/ that is what debuild should spit out if you try to build a non-native package in a native manner
[14:23] <apachelogger> you'll need to ensure that the tarball is named appropriately
[14:24] <mgraesslin> apachelogger and JontheEchidna: nice work on the Timelord project ;-)
[14:24] <falktx> it did gave me that error before
[14:24] <falktx> but diappeared after i putted ~ppaX
[14:25] <JontheEchidna> falktx: it won't be too nice on your current ppa users, but really it would be better to remove the conflicts and other ppa-versioned stuff before the final upload to Ubuntu
[14:25] <JontheEchidna> oh, also the current convention is to set the maintainer to: Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
[14:26] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: well, the work is yet to come :)
[14:26] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: recognizing problems is the first and most important step
[14:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ...query...
[14:26] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: very true
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: right! content looked fine imo
[14:26] <falktx> fixing it now
[14:26] <mgraesslin> about translations I would recommend you to try to handle them via KDE SVN instead of bazaar
[14:27] <mgraesslin> might reach more translators which do not know in general how to handle different vcs'
[14:28] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I better run it by sebas, I don't trust your judgment on content
[14:28] <apachelogger> with Nightrose claiming that you are on crack and all :P
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> heh
[14:29] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: we still need to work out the specifics of l10n, it is a quite complicate and also controversal topic
[14:29] <mgraesslin> sure
[14:29] <falktx> uploaded new package to revu
[14:32] <sebas> What's controversial about "ditch Rosetta"?
[14:33] <yuriy> sebas: it goes against the standard Ubuntu processes. it also leaves no clear way to translate Kubuntu modifications
[14:34] <falktx> anything wrong with the new package?
[14:34] <sebas> OK, "ditch Rosetta for everything upstream" then
[14:34] <Riddell> or to package translations from stuff not in main KDE modules
[14:34] <txwikinger> When kdm doesn't start with the message in syslog that it respawns too fast... is that an upstart problem?
[14:35] <claydoh> Riddell: I will do a Kubuntu-fied verison of that wiki page (GraphicalInstall)
[14:36] <sebas> txwikinger: usually, it's kdm or X crashing then
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> falktx: old ppa changelog entries should go, and the final entry should close the packaging bug and be 1.0.2-0ubuntu1
[14:36] <txwikinger> sebas: Not sure
[14:36] <txwikinger> I can start kdm from commandline without problem
[14:36] <sebas> upstart wants to start kdm -> X crashes -> upstart tries again -> xcrashes -> ad infinitum -> respawns too often
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> falktx: there's also not a kdesu package as far as I know, so the package shouldn't recommend that
[14:36] <sebas> That doesn't mean that X can't crash
[14:37] <txwikinger> well.. if X crashes, it does before it writes anything in the Xorg log
[14:38] <sebas> so it doesn't write *anything*, then it probably doesn't even touch X
[14:38] <txwikinger> it is definately not kdm because gdm does the same
[14:38] <falktx> will fix that
[14:39] <smarter> apachelogger, JontheEchidna: fellow Timelords, what is the state of kubuntu-notification-helper ?
[14:40] <JontheEchidna> smarter: it notifies of reboot, apport and upgrade hook notifications
[14:40] <JontheEchidna> still needs codec and dist-upgrade notifications
[14:40] <JontheEchidna> and hook support could probably be done better, but it still works better than update-notifier-kde
[14:40] <smarter> and where can I find the code to h4x on it?
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-notification-helper/trunk
[14:41] <smarter> thanks
[14:42] <JontheEchidna> feedback welcome, this is pretty much the first time anybody other than harald or myself has looked/haxxed the code
[14:44] <Bsims> I have an issue, I have been bitten by Bug # 425704 affecting my capslock, but does it affect numlock as well?
[14:45] <JontheEchidna> smarter: a note, after installing you'll need to enable the kded module from "kcmshell4 kcmkded"
[14:45] <falktx> uploaded new package again
[14:45] <smarter> JontheEchidna: okay, so far the code looks good ;)
[14:46] <apachelogger> smarter, JontheEchidna: general note: for good testing you want to restart kded after make install
[14:46] <apachelogger> otherwise you might run into all sorts of weird caching
[14:47] <JontheEchidna> yeah, that's been my experience too
[14:47] <apachelogger> for notification changes youll need to restart knotify as well :P
[14:47] <falktx> if my package gets accepted, will it be on Karmic?
[14:47] <falktx> and can it be backported to Jaunty?
[14:48] <JontheEchidna> it would be for lucid, and you could file a backport for karmic
[14:48] <JontheEchidna> and jaunty too I suppose
[14:48] <smarter> Event::show() shows a notification?
[14:48] <falktx> nice
[14:49] <smarter> oh, nevermind, I thought Event was a KDE class
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> falktx: which brings up another point I missed, the changelog entry should be for lucid.
[14:49] <falktx> aaa...
[14:49] <falktx> wait a little then
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> :)
[14:50] <falktx> re-uploaded now
[14:50] <falktx> you think it will pass?
[14:50] <Bsims> I have an issue, I have been bitten by Bug # 425704 in console-setup affecting my capslock, but does it affect numlock as well?
[14:51] <falktx> I know it will fix at least 3 bugs
[14:52] <JontheEchidna> falktx: I do have doubts about the current short description for sixad, but the packaging looks solid overall
[14:52] <smarter> JontheEchidna: what is the low-level stuff in hookevent for?
[14:52] <JontheEchidna> smarter: directory listing
[14:52] <smarter> can't Qt do that?
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> probably. the hook stuff was a quick and dirty port of the python crap
[14:53] <smarter> okay
[14:53] <smarter> QDir seems more adapted
[14:54] <JontheEchidna> hooks stuff is also quite the memory hog, shoots kded mem usage up to 6 MB when showing the dialog
[14:54] <smarter> also, I'd rather use one or more QRegExp to do the parsing
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> any and all improvements to hook parsing are very much welcome :)
[14:55] <smarter> I'll look into it ;)
[14:55] <apachelogger> ryanakca: what is with the knmap upload on revu?
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> I've found apt-file to be a good test package for hooks
[14:56] <falktx> any comments are welcome
[14:56] <JontheEchidna> back in a bit
[14:56] <falktx> this is my first "real" package I made
[14:57] <smarter> and I seriously don't believe that parsing /proc/uptime is the best way to do about anything :p
[14:57] <JontheEchidna> :P
[14:57] <JontheEchidna> falktx: quite good for a first package, I must say
[14:57] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: is python-gtk2 installed by default for kubuntu (CD or DVD iso?)
[14:57] <falktx> it's been almost 6 months in this package
[14:57] <falktx> the ubuntuforums were really useful
[14:58] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: I hope not
[14:58] <falktx> my own package thread has already 38 pages
[14:58]  * JontheEchidna is away for serious this time, back in 20 mins or so
[14:58] <falktx> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1190061
[15:01] <valgaav> can I suggest using oxygen molecule instead of qtcurve for gtk+ apps with next release ?
[15:01] <LeeJunFan> filing bugs for ubuntu has become a real pain in the a$$ - launchpad hasn't worked for days now.
[15:02] <valgaav> so far I'm using it for two months with gimp / synaptic / mkvmerge / firefox and it does the job right
[15:04] <apachelogger> so
[15:04] <apachelogger> I am hungry
[15:05] <apachelogger> the fridge is empty
[15:05] <apachelogger> and it is raining and incredibly cold outside
[15:05] <smarter> that was almost an haiku
[15:05] <apachelogger> obviously I must starve to death
[15:05] <rgreening> Riddell: have you seen the flickering kubuntu usplash under 9.10?
[15:05] <rgreening> ow my eyes
[15:06]  * apachelogger puts bandaid on rgreening's eyes
[15:07] <Riddell> rgreening: nope
[15:08] <rgreening> Riddell, can you live boot the DVD and see if the live logo in usplash is flickering for you? Cause I have it here...
[15:08] <rgreening> its part of the glow effect ubuntu has enabled in casper/initrd
[15:08] <smarter> apachelogger, JontheEchidna: how do I get kDebug() to outputs something with kded? Is installing the kdelibs debug package the only solution?
[15:08] <Riddell> rgreening: I've booted the CDs and DVDs 100 times and they didn't flicker
[15:08] <apachelogger> smarter: kdebugdialg
[15:08] <smarter> rgreening: flickered for me on the Live-CD for at least one computer
[15:08] <apachelogger> kdebugdialog
[15:08] <rgreening> hmm... under vbox? or direct?
[15:08] <apachelogger> turn on all
[15:09] <apachelogger> then it should spit to whatever is stdout for kded
[15:09] <apachelogger> i.e. .xsession-errors unless you started kded from a terminal
[15:09] <rgreening> smarter: maybe its a dell mini-10v issue
[15:09] <rgreening> ?
[15:09] <rgreening> Riddell: ^
[15:09] <smarter> rgreening: nop, it was on a desktop, with an Intel 4500HD or something like that
[15:10] <rgreening> maybe its an intel issue
[15:10] <smarter> I haven't installed Kubuntu on that machine yet, no idea if it's a Live-CD only issue
[15:10] <rgreening> I believe it only happens in live env...
[15:10] <smarter> well, that's a relief at least :p
[15:10] <rgreening> its gross. we need to change the logo to remove the pulsing bar bewlow the logo.
[15:11] <rgreening> yuk
[15:12] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: mail sent, can we now please get started on the support policy? :P
[15:16] <smarter> apachelogger: how do you respawn kded properly?
[15:17] <apachelogger> kquitapp kded; sleep2; kded4
[15:17] <smarter> but it doesn't enable the modules at restart
[15:18] <smarter> and it adds a knetworkmanager icon to the systray :p
[15:18] <apachelogger> well, yeah, but that is the most proper way available :P
[15:18] <apachelogger> the other would be to relogin
[15:21] <Riddell> yo Daskreech
[15:21] <Riddell> I didn't get the faq update
[15:24] <Daskreech> Bleah Can somene look in the backlog for the pastebin I last gave?
[15:25] <Riddell> irclogs.ubuntu.com is your friend
[15:25] <Riddell> what day?
[15:25] <Daskreech> Two days ago I think
[15:26] <Daskreech> Three days
[15:27] <Daskreech> [20:50] <DasKreech> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/305369/ you can decide on if the phrase derivative should be changed to sibling
[15:27] <Riddell> thanks Daskreech
[15:28] <Daskreech> Riddell: We were discussing if the phrase derivavtive should instead be reworded to say sibling
[15:29] <Riddell> "derivavtive" isn't used in that text
[15:29] <Riddell> "Kubuntu is the first Ubuntu derived distribution."  I tend to say it's a variant from Ubuntu
[15:35] <Daskreech> Riddell: Well if you like you can reword that section I didn't know if it made sense to. I think Derived is a pretty good explanation
[15:37] <falktx> how much time does it take a revu to be approved?
[15:40] <JontheEchidna> two motus have to give their approval on the package. I think I can give mine now
[15:40] <Riddell> I can revu stuff if I'm poked (although then I can't do archive admin approval)
[15:42] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna, falktx: it's still a native package
[15:42] <JontheEchidna> oh, hrm. I will unadvocate then
[15:42] <apachelogger> lol
[15:43] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you could however help falktx get that resolved
[15:43] <Riddell> Daskreech: kubuntu.org/faq updated (or will when cache updates) thanks
[15:44] <Daskreech> Whoot :)
[15:44] <JontheEchidna> falktx: the unmodified source tarball used before the debian directory was added should be named qtsixa_1.0.2.orig.tar.gz
[15:44] <JontheEchidna> that should fix the native package issue
[15:45] <rgreening> who here has a dell mini 10v? or dell laptop and wants the dell community image but with kubuntu instead?
[15:45] <rgreening> :)
[15:45] <rgreening> I have a process from superm1 to do the dell recovery partition and havew a kubuntu install :)
[15:46] <rgreening> I'll probably blog on it later...
[15:46] <falktx> i think i'll really need help on this
[15:46] <falktx> i adapted my code to debian source package
[15:47] <falktx> then i started coding from there
[15:47] <falktx> so there's no "original code" package anymore
[15:47] <JontheEchidna> keep a copy of you debian folder somewhere
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> download the source tarball from the qtsixa website
[15:48] <falktx> hm...
[15:48] <falktx> i develop qtsixa
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> rename/recompress it to qtsixa_1.0.2.orig.tar.gz
[15:48] <falktx> it's my own code
[15:48] <falktx> but i'll try that
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> oh, neat
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> basically you take a tarball of the untouched upstream code
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> give it the proper naming convention (packagename_version.orig.tar.gz)
[15:49] <Riddell> falktx: if that's a Qt app there may be a trademark issue with it using Qt in the name (or there may not I don't know the current policy), of course that Nokia's problem not ours
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> then place the debian directory into the extracted folder and debuild
[15:52] <Daskreech> apachelogger: ping
[15:52] <Daskreech> or seele ping I might guess
[15:53] <seele> ?
[15:53] <apachelogger> ?
[15:53] <Daskreech> seele: What is the current oh hai apachelogger status with submissions of kubuntu paperkuts to OHP ?
[15:54] <Quintasan> o hai
[15:54] <Daskreech> Do they get accepted and worked on ?
[15:54]  * seele blinks
[15:54] <seele> ohp?
[15:54] <Daskreech> Reading the Timelord documentation
[15:54] <Daskreech> One Hundred papercuts
[15:55] <seele> can you rephrase, i dont understand your question
[15:55] <Daskreech> Does One Hundred papercuts accept papercuts submitted for KDE with an intention to work on them?
[15:57] <seele> we are repsonsible for working on them
[15:57] <seele> upstream has no obligation, nor do other members of ubuntu
[15:57] <seele> kde does not have a "papercuts" program
[15:57] <apachelogger> falktx: more comments
[15:58] <falktx> what do you mean?
[15:58] <falktx> I always get error:
[15:58] <falktx> unrepresentable changes to source
[15:59] <Quintasan> anything more?
[15:59] <Quintasan> it's a problem with symbolic link, executable changed or something else?
[16:00] <falktx> just hold
[16:01] <falktx> we'll be busy now for 30mins
[16:01] <falktx> will be back then
[16:01] <Daskreech> seele: Does Gnome?
[16:01] <seele> does gnome what?
[16:02] <seele> 100 papercuts is an ubuntu program, not upstream
[16:02] <agateau> ScottK: Riddell: I just realized the wiki page I wrote about configuring indicators in KDE apps is not linked anywhere, any idea where to put such a link?
[16:02] <Riddell> agateau: which page?
[16:02] <Daskreech> Ok thats what I thought
[16:02] <agateau> Riddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KarmicKoala/ConfigureIndicators
[16:02] <Daskreech> Although KDE does have a JJ program
[16:03] <Daskreech> I wonder if a papercut type program would fit in there
[16:03] <Daskreech> Kinda a cross between JJ and bugsquad
[16:03] <Riddell> agateau: I can link to it from http://www.kubuntu.org/news/9.10-release
[16:04] <agateau> Riddell: would be great!
[16:04] <Daskreech> If we are forwarding most of the reports upstream it may help to put in some work to ensure something is there to catch them
[16:06] <agateau> Riddell: I was also wondering whether we could make the plasmoid open it if no indicator-enabled applications are running
[16:06] <agateau> but I doubt this would qualify as SRU
[16:07]  * Daskreech rereads the FAQ and ughs at the phrase "more full list" why didn't I see that before?
[16:08] <Riddell> agateau: make plasmoid open what?
[16:08] <Riddell> Daskreech: it was "fuller" before but that's not a word
[16:08] <agateau> Riddell: plasmoid would open the wiki page in default browser
[16:09] <Daskreech> Yeah but more full is so twisted grammatically
[16:09] <Daskreech> more complete would be better
[16:10] <Riddell> agateau: link added
[16:10] <Riddell> Daskreech: fixed
[16:10] <agateau> Riddell: thanks
[16:10] <Daskreech> Riddell: thanks
[16:11] <Riddell> agateau: a "setup" link to the wiki page would work, just opening it directly isn't what users tend to expect
[16:11] <Daskreech> Riddell: Should we say cannot boot into Ubuntu after installing windows?
[16:11] <Daskreech>  I thought the idea was to promote Kubuntu ?
[16:11] <agateau> Riddell: yes, I agree
[16:12] <Riddell> Daskreech: fixed
[16:12] <Daskreech> apachelogger: Would you like a timelord mention for the last question on http://www.kubuntu.org/faq
[16:14] <seele> need a developer to clarify lingo: can back tracing also be known as back tracking, or is that something else?
[16:15] <agateau> seele: I think it's something else
[16:15] <agateau> never heard a dev talking about "back tracking"
[16:15] <JontheEchidna> maybe the act of obtaining a backtrace?
[16:16] <seele> i have transcripts of an interview with a developer, and he's talking about a back tracking tool
[16:16] <agateau> that would be backtracing
[16:16] <agateau> seele: oh
[16:16] <apachelogger> ehm
[16:17] <apachelogger> they exist both
[16:17] <apachelogger> mean different things though
[16:17] <apachelogger> back tracking describes a very common algorithm for problem solving
[16:17] <apachelogger> backtracing is... well, tracing something back to the origin I'd say :D
[16:18] <apachelogger> so either he is talking about an algorithm or about tracing something or someone or somewhere
[16:18] <apachelogger> ah, that last some did not fit in ;)
[16:20] <apachelogger> Daskreech: I would like the helping page being redone really :P
[16:20] <apachelogger> mentions adet :D
[16:20] <apachelogger> adept even
[16:30] <ScottK> Riddell: I didn't forget on the updates policy.  I started work on a wiki page for it yesterday.  I'll get it to the tech board today or tomorrow, most likely
[16:31] <Riddell> ScottK: let me know if there's something to read over
[16:32] <ScottK> Riddell: Will do.  I'm just taking the email I send to kubuntu-devel and making it more policy like.
[16:33] <apachelogger> tea time!
[16:33]  * apachelogger brews some earl grey
[16:38] <markey> apachelogger: one wish for Timelord: auto-mount all devices
[16:38] <markey> I don't understand why I have to open Dolphin for mounting
[16:38] <markey> makes 0 sense to me
[16:38] <apachelogger> that should be implemented in KDE, shouldn't it?
[16:38] <markey> no idea...
[16:39] <yuriy> markey: i think there was some period whan kde3 did do that and there was complaining
[16:39] <apachelogger> AFAIK there is a plasma device notifier fork on kde-apps that automounts stuff
[16:39] <ulysses__> I saw a device notifier plasmoid with automount on kde-look.org
[16:39] <yuriy> of course, there's always complaining
[16:39] <markey> see, in KDE it works this 1) idea 2) ... 3) patch 4) [one year later] 5) release
[16:39] <apachelogger> yuriy: well, still can be an option
[16:39] <markey> takes too much time
[16:39] <markey> KDE is slow as molasses in many things
[16:39] <yuriy> unless the person just goes and commits the patch
[16:39]  * apachelogger always does that :P
[16:40] <markey> I don't work on KDE core things. it would madden me
[16:40] <apachelogger> well, once you got worked in it's only half bad
[16:40]  * apachelogger once spent an entire day fixing a bug in some standard dialog
[16:41] <apachelogger> the actual fix was like 10 sloc, most of the time was spent on digging through kdelibs
[16:42] <ScottK> The device notifier is getting overhauled for 4.4, so I'd say let's see what it is at the end before we decide to get excited as a project about changing thise
[16:42] <ScottK> thise/this
[16:42] <markey> ok, true
[16:42] <markey> I just read something about it
[16:42] <markey> core-devel
[16:42] <JontheEchidna> the overhaul is the kde-look automounting one, passed through kdereview a few times
[16:43] <JontheEchidna> I do not know if the automounting feature made it through though
[16:43] <markey> Amarok development is an island of peace and sanity. we decide something, do it, 6 weeks later we release :)
[16:43] <markey> that's fun working
[16:43] <markey> (amarok is not a library though, so it's easier to change things)
[16:43] <apachelogger> tea is ready
[16:43] <apachelogger> who wants some?
[16:43]  * markey has coffee
[16:44] <markey> anyway, Agile development ftw
[16:48] <apachelogger> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1312114
[16:49] <apachelogger> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Announcing_Project_Timelord_Kubuntu/
[16:50] <apachelogger> digg is so 90's :P
[16:53] <apachelogger> emonkey: about the donations thingy you were suggesting ... since canonical owns the kubuntu trademark I would suppose money goes there :P
[16:54] <apachelogger> besides, I wouldn't know who'd manage the money
[16:54] <apachelogger> but yeah, maybe a donation system of some sort would make sense
[16:54] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[16:56] <Riddell> Lex79!
[16:56] <Lex79> ohi
[16:56] <Riddell> whither Qt?
[16:57] <Lex79> buld fine, install fine, but I have to rewrite lzma, qtjambi and pot rules to use dh 7
[16:58] <Lex79> debian switched to dh 7 in qt 4.6
[16:58] <seele> Riddell: pretty pretty please can we work on printing for lucid?
[16:59] <ScottK> Please don't break anything.
[16:59] <seele> printing management ui still needs some love
[16:59] <Daskreech> markey: isn't that solved for KDE 4.4 ?
[16:59] <Riddell> seele: finish the system-config-printer-kde would be lovely yes
[16:59] <Lex79> ScottK: you speak with me ? :)
[16:59] <Riddell> Lex79: can you put what you have into bzr?
[17:00] <markey> Daskreech: oh I wouldn't know, I'm not using trunk currently, sorry :)
[17:00] <markey> too busy
[17:00] <Lex79> yes, moment, I'm just returned to home
[17:06] <ScottK> Lex79: What's up?
[17:06]  * ScottK is just about to head out for meetings, so unless it's quick, we'll need to do it later.
[17:07] <apachelogger> ScottK: he meant whether you were talking to him when you said that he shouldnt break anything
[17:07] <ScottK> Oh.  No.
[17:08] <ScottK> Although I'm in favor of him not breaking anything, I meant about the printing.  It just works here and I'd like that to continue.
[17:08] <ScottK> I've had network printing setup fails here with both Windows (don't ask) and OS X and our stuff just works.
[17:09] <Riddell> ScottK: the printing stuff is just completing the port from gnome and switching to seele's UI, so it shouldn't be much possibility for breakage
[17:09] <seele> ScottK: the ui is incomplete, it needs to be finished
[17:09] <seele> afaik the backend is done, we just need to paint it
[17:09] <ScottK> OK.  Sounds good.
[17:10]  * seele thinks kubuntu peeps shoudl stop in DC the weekend before Austin :P
[17:10] <ScottK> When sabdfl said he wanted to match the OS X user experience, I sort of assume he didn't want us to worsen stuff like printing where we're better.
[17:11] <apachelogger> who knows :D
[17:11] <Quintasan> hmm, srsly, is #qt only for writing c++ code? :P
[17:12] <JontheEchidna> obviously he meant getting mac4lin finally through revu and part of the default install :D
[17:12] <Quintasan> lol
[17:13] <Quintasan> +1 for mac4lin :P
[17:14] <Riddell> UDS attendees: please go to https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-l/+attend and click on Register
[17:14] <Quintasan> :|
[17:15] <Lex79> Riddell: I uploaded qt to bzr
[17:15] <Riddell> thanks
[17:24] <Quintasan> :/ nspluginviewer crashes each time I open a site with flash, srsly
[17:57] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: kubuntu-default-settings from karmic-proposed works, giving input on the bug
[18:18] <sebas> Will KDE 4.3.3 automatically hit karmic?
[18:19] <JontheEchidna> having a bit of trouble building kdebindings actually, so it'll be a bit late
[18:19] <sebas> no problem, was just wondering if I can "just wait" or if I want to go package hunting
[18:20] <sebas> I prefer just wait
[18:20] <sebas> Besides, it's just out for one hour only
[18:20] <sebas>  :)
[18:20] <JontheEchidna> :)
[18:20]  * sebas does afk things now
[18:20] <JontheEchidna> it'll be in a ppa at first, but we will offer it as a regular karmic update soon I think
[18:21] <JontheEchidna> we might still be working out the specifics for that, Scott would probably know better
[18:23] <gnufied> hi folks
[18:24] <Mamarok> claydoh: ping
[18:28] <Mamarok> claydoh: I have not a clue who Steve is talking about in that mail, I searched older mails for "Res" and only found screen resolution stuff
[18:45] <mcas> JontheEchidna: will there be a backported version of kde 4.3.3 for jaunty?
[18:45] <JontheEchidna> probably not
[18:47] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: why I have to do "bzr add files" ? doesn't work automatically? :(
[18:47] <JontheEchidna> nope :(
[18:47] <Lex79> oh my god :(
[18:47] <JontheEchidna> doing bzr add by itself will add all the files in the directory though
[18:48] <Lex79> just do "bzr add" ?
[18:48] <JontheEchidna> just make sure you don't have anything unwanted in there, and "bzr add"
[18:48] <Lex79> ok try
[18:50] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: uhm Qt4/4.6.0/ubuntu$ bzr add
[18:50] <Lex79> adding .directory
[18:50] <Lex79> :(
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> bzr remove .directory
[18:51] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: but it add only .directory and not the files I want to add (various lintian files)
[18:51] <JontheEchidna> what does "bzr add debian" do?
[18:52] <Lex79> nothing
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> are you sure the files aren't already added? maybe do a bzr commit and see if they show up as new files and not unknown files?
[18:53] <Lex79> I'll download again bzr branch and I'll retry
[19:05] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: done, thanks :)
[19:05] <JontheEchidna> you're welcome :)
[19:39] <Lex79> Riddell: I reupload qt, I rewrite rules for lzma compression and for cleaning po, I added TODO.Kubuntu file
[19:45] <Daskreech> Anyone up that has acces to the Timelord doc?
[19:49] <Daskreech> Error in the paragraph speaking about Pre 10.04
[19:49] <Daskreech> • Announce Project Timelord to the world! his will include:
[19:52] <slacker_nl> if i want to help with timelord.. where do i start?
[19:54] <Daskreech> slacker_nl: Look at Helping Kubuntu wiki page and tear out old junk
[19:54] <slacker_nl> hehe, writing docs, my favorite pastime
[19:55] <Daskreech> If you would like to have a link to a wiki page of Doktors and put yourself on it we wouldn't mind either :)
[19:55] <Daskreech> slacker_nl: This is unwriting docs :)
[19:55] <slacker_nl> lol
[19:55] <slacker_nl> lemme have a look first :)
[19:55] <Daskreech> But seriously though that landing page should be kept quite lean and channel people where needed
[19:56] <Daskreech> WE have a lot of things on the timelord project each of which is fairly detailed
[19:56] <Daskreech>  we should have page s for each of them with statuses of what needs to be done and what is currently being done
[19:57] <Daskreech> HelpingKubuntu should be a quick way to get to more detailed TODOs while giving an overview
[19:57] <Daskreech> Talking about how much we need help with adept isn't helping
[19:58] <Daskreech> Also a list of people who come and actually help with Project Timelord will be good in terms of recognition of the community around Kubuntu as well as being able to track who did what
[19:58] <slacker_nl> brb
[19:59] <MsMaco> JontheEchidna: you, with the puns!
[20:00] <MsMaco> had to put a Rose joke in there, eh?
[20:00] <MsMaco> i *facepalm*d at that
[20:01] <JontheEchidna> I don't think I was trying to make any Rose puns. What'd I do?
[20:01]  * apachelogger runs around in swimming trunks
[20:01] <apachelogger> darn radiator radiates like 3 billion degrees
[20:02] <MsMaco> JontheEchidna: look into the heart of the tardis? reborn? you mean like when she brought jack back to life?
[20:02] <JontheEchidna> oh, that. haha
[20:02] <apachelogger> hrrr
[20:02] <apachelogger> jack
[20:02] <apachelogger> :D
[20:02] <MsMaco> <3 jack
[20:02] <JontheEchidna> MsMaco: more like when that slitheen looked into the heart of the tardis and was reborn into an egg
[20:02] <MsMaco> oh!
[20:02] <MsMaco> why DID that happen differently to them, anyway?
[20:03] <MsMaco> that didnt make sense. maybe the heart of the tardis has a mind of its own and decides what to do to folks
[20:03] <JontheEchidna> tardis is telepathic, maybe it knew what their desires were
[20:03] <apachelogger> and there are enough references to the tardis some kind of being
[20:04] <JontheEchidna> though
[20:04] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ping ping
[20:04] <JontheEchidna> if Kubuntu looked into the tardis and became an all-powerful entity I'd be quite scared
[20:05] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ping ping ppppping ping ping
[20:05] <Nightrose> apachelogger: pong pong honey
[20:07]  * apachelogger takes Nightrose for a dance
[20:07] <Daskreech> MsMaco: It's like the sorting hat in Hogwarts :)
[20:08] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: can you please revise the ContactUs page
[20:08] <Daskreech> apachelogger: Just made my announcement :)
[20:08] <apachelogger> I think differing by category rather than media makes more sense
[20:08] <apachelogger> Daskreech: what announcement?
[20:08]  * Nightrose dances with apachelogger
[20:08] <apachelogger> and where and huh?
[20:08]  * apachelogger is all uninformed
[20:09] <Daskreech> apachelogger: dentica
[20:09] <apachelogger> Daskreech: not understanding a word :P
[20:09] <apachelogger> must be that fancy dentica slang
[20:09] <Daskreech> apachelogger: http://identi.ca/conversation/13658881#notice-13680214
[20:10] <apachelogger> yeah, I dont understand the message
[20:10] <Daskreech> :-)
[20:10] <Daskreech> ask your dance partner
[20:10] <apachelogger> Nightrose: honey, whats does hes means?
[20:11] <apachelogger> so
[20:11] <Daskreech> apachelogger: oh bugfix for the Timelord doc
[20:11] <apachelogger> any conceptual ideas for the helpingkubuntu page?
[20:11] <Daskreech> apachelogger: landing page
[20:11] <Daskreech> Heavy Timelord focus
[20:11] <Daskreech> No Adept
[20:11] <Nightrose> apachelogger: i think he wants to create a group for timelord on identi.ca
[20:11] <Daskreech> Nightrose: No I did already
[20:11] <apachelogger> ah, sounds like a good idea
[20:11] <Daskreech> It's called !doktor
[20:12]  * apachelogger pets Daskreech
[20:12] <Daskreech> mostly so I can make an alias of !doktoring
[20:12] <Daskreech> which I already did ;-)
[20:12] <Nightrose> Daskreech: ah ok - i should read the whole conversation...
[20:12] <Nightrose> ;-)
[20:12] <apachelogger> Daskreech: needs pik
[20:12] <Daskreech> So you can say you are currently doktoring bugs or you are going to doktor an app
[20:13] <Daskreech> apachelogger: gimmie pik
[20:13] <Daskreech> apachelogger: better yet you are now the adminstratot
[20:13] <Daskreech> adminstrator
[20:13] <apachelogger> oh noes
[20:14] <apachelogger> I have no clue of all that crap :P
[20:14] <Daskreech> There is a tab that says logo :) it has one button it's not hard to figure out :-D
[20:14] <Daskreech> but I don't have anything for there
[20:14] <Daskreech> unless someone has a foto of a blue TARDIS?
[20:15] <Daskreech> perchanchenhaps?
[20:15] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/ContactUs
[20:15] <Daskreech> apachelogger: I'm assuming that since the Timelord announcement is in ~apachlogger you have access to it? :)
[20:15] <apachelogger> Daskreech: we could use a pic of Nightrose
[20:16] <Daskreech> I can't handle that kind of flood
[20:16] <Daskreech> Oooooh Nightrose in a doctor suit
[20:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: much better ... now link to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/ContactUs#Development in the kubuntu.org announcement
[20:16] <Daskreech> I'd like that better than a Blue TARDIS
[20:17] <Nightrose> dudes!
[20:17] <Nightrose> no pics of me in a doctor suit
[20:17] <Nightrose> ;-)
[20:17] <Daskreech> awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[20:17] <Daskreech> pleaaaase :)
[20:17] <apachelogger> I actually were thinking without the suit anyway :P
[20:17] <Daskreech> Wow
[20:17]  * Nightrose pokes apachelogger
[20:17] <Daskreech> Fun fact the First TARDIS ws blue
[20:17]  * apachelogger hugs Nightrose
[20:17] <Nightrose> ;-)
[20:18]  * apachelogger drafts up new helpingkubuntu page
[20:18] <Daskreech> Just wearing a doctor?
[20:18] <apachelogger> = Kubuntu Love Train =
[20:18] <JontheEchidna> oh my
[20:19] <Daskreech> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/TARDIS2.jpg
[20:19] <apachelogger> makes me remember, next talk I do, I must do an equally offensive statement as the dictator's
[20:19] <Daskreech> Anyone seconds this approval assuming that Nightrose doesn't supply a pic of her wearing a doctor?
[20:20] <Nightrose> Daskreech: go for it
[20:20] <Nightrose> apachelogger: and don't forget not to apologize ;-)
[20:21] <apachelogger> well, I'll have to do it about men anyway
[20:21]  * Daskreech does magic with KIO
[20:21] <apachelogger> just to see if anyone gives a shit
[20:21]  * Daskreech hugs KDE
[20:22] <Daskreech> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Earls_Court_Police_Box.jpg Is snazzier
[20:22] <Daskreech> course the first one being more beat up may be part of the messgae :-/
[20:23] <Daskreech> message even
[20:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu/New
[20:26] <apachelogger> I need pix
[20:26]  * apachelogger removes useless stuff to start with freshish content
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> we can use oxygen bug icon for bug triage
[20:28] <apachelogger>  * Translate. KDE stuff should be in Rosetta soon, available for translation.
[20:28] <apachelogger> roflor
[20:28] <Daskreech> I shall return!
[20:35] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6t692kpqhs
[20:35] <apachelogger> exterminate
[20:35]  * slacker_nl slaps mailman
[20:40] <slacker_nl> do the kubuntu mailinglists require admin approval?
[20:41] <apachelogger> slacker_nl: no
[20:41] <slacker_nl> weird
[20:41] <apachelogger> but you need to be subscribed when posting to kubuntu-devel
[20:41] <apachelogger> otherwise it will get rejected
[20:41] <slacker_nl> i subscribed earlier today to kubuntu-users and now to kubuntu-devel but no dice..
[20:41] <slacker_nl> no confirm messages
[20:51] <JontheEchidna> hrhr, https://www.ohloh.net/p/kubuntu-linux
[20:51] <JontheEchidna> apparently kubuntu is written mostly in ruby :D
[20:52] <apachelogger> go kubuntu go
[20:53]  * skreech boogies on down
[20:54] <apachelogger> wth https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PackagingGuide/KDE
[20:56] <Mamarok> slacker_nl: what mail adress so I can check the kubuntu-users ML?
[20:56] <slacker_nl> Mamarok: issue at my isp/employee
[20:57] <slacker_nl> you probably got bounces @ ubuntu-mailings@opperschaap.net
[20:58] <Mamarok> no, I didn't
[20:58] <slacker_nl> k, eitherway, problem located, now see if i can poke someone to fix it
[20:59] <Mamarok> slacker_nl: still, that adress is not in the subscriber list of kubuntu-users
[21:00] <Mamarok> but since you probably didn't confirm it... :)
[21:00] <slacker_nl> makes sense :)
[21:00] <Mamarok> just ping me if you want me to subscribe you
[21:01] <slacker_nl> i want to be subscribed to kubuntu-devel
[21:01] <slacker_nl> i'll try it again tomorrow
[21:01] <Mamarok> not my range then, I do kubuntu-users only :)
[21:02] <apachelogger> ryanakca: did I point out that the headers are not very different in the wiki
[21:02] <apachelogger> h2 and h3 are not exactly to be told apart
[21:02] <apachelogger> at least I dont manage to
[21:07] <apachelogger> meh
[21:07] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved
[21:07] <apachelogger> I am lost
[21:07] <apachelogger> I HATE THAT FREAKING WIKI
[21:08] <JontheEchidna> wait... didn't we just overhault a page like that?
[21:08] <apachelogger> cant we just throw a tzar bomb on that thing
[21:08] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: helpingkubuntu vs. kubuntu/gettinginvolved
[21:08] <apachelogger> I am getting the creeps
[21:08] <JontheEchidna> :S
[21:09] <ryanakca> apachelogger: I'm fixing it in Debian, and I can't upload it to mentors.debian.net because it won't let me change my GPG key.
[21:09] <apachelogger> so?
[21:10] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: sox2 ... what do we do there
[21:10]  * apachelogger wants the wiki to explode
[21:10] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: redirect helpingkubuntu to kubuntu/gettinginvolved?
[21:10] <apachelogger> I suppose the latter is more consistent with the other naming scheme
[21:11] <JontheEchidna> yeah, it is
[21:11] <JontheEchidna> redirecting sounds fine
[21:12] <ryanakca> apachelogger: They wanted a link to the dsc :)
[21:12] <Mamarok> ok, bed time for me
[21:12] <apachelogger> helpingubuntu vs. contributingtoubuntu
[21:12] <apachelogger> srsly
[21:12] <apachelogger> that is no fun
[21:12] <apachelogger> Mamarok: nini, sleep tight
[21:13] <apachelogger> ryanakca: oh, Ill archive then
[21:13] <Mamarok> apachelogger: If I manage to, markey is already snoring...
[21:13] <apachelogger> ryanakca: next time leave a comment, not that someone does an unnecessary revu :P
[21:13] <apachelogger> Mamarok: hehe :)
[21:13] <Mamarok> good night everyone :)
[21:13] <ryanakca> apachelogger: OK, will do :)
[21:14] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: think we could get nookie to do some fancy timelord graphics?
[21:14] <slacker_nl> Mamarok: gn
[21:14] <JontheEchidna> probably, if we ask
[21:14]  * apachelogger tells JontheEchidna to ask, since apachelogger is too shy
[21:14] <JontheEchidna> lol
[21:15] <JontheEchidna> nookie^: think you could whip up some fancy graphics for project timelord? :)
[21:18] <nookie^> JontheEchidna: whats time lord and what's needed to be done there?
[21:18] <JontheEchidna> http://www.kubuntu.org/news/timelord
[21:18] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: what needs done?
[21:18] <slacker_nl> yay, subscribed to the mailing list
[21:19] <apachelogger> if only I knew
[21:19] <apachelogger> maybe some badge thingy saying "I am contributing to timelord"
[21:19] <apachelogger> better yet "I am a Timelord"
[21:19] <apachelogger> and probably some general banner to use on web pages
[21:20] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: think we could move over the phonon transitional packages to qt4-x11?
[21:20] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: actually what is present at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved looks kinda usable right away
[21:20] <nookie^> JontheEchidna: reading
[21:20] <apachelogger> just need to make the subpages make sense
[21:21] <nookie^> JontheEchidna: this is awesome idea, alot of things could be improved
[21:22] <nookie^> i have alot of them
[21:22] <nookie^> :D
[21:22] <JontheEchidna> nookie^: yeah, we were thinking that maybe you could make some logos or badges for it?
[21:22] <nookie^> JontheEchidna: sure i can do that
[21:22] <JontheEchidna> thanks a lot
[21:22] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: Debian in qt 4.6 builds phonon metapackage, I didn't add it for now, but yes for your question
[21:22] <nookie^> is there any way i can contribute with things which could be improved later on?
[21:23] <nookie^> i mean ideas.. coding is not my part =)
[21:23] <JontheEchidna> nookie^: we still need to figure out what we are doing branding and artwork wise, but we will definitely let you know (It'd be great if you gave your input while we plan too)
[21:24] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: It would be nice if we could move over the phonon metapackage and transitional package, then I can remove them from the phonon-backends package
[21:25] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: yes, I didn't add because it called "phonon", and we have still phonon package in repository
[21:25] <nookie^> JontheEchidna: sure just let me know.. if there are any meetings or stuff just let me know aswell
[21:25] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: so we should remove them before build phonon metapackage from qt 4.6, right?
[21:25] <JontheEchidna> Lex79: ok, I'm fixing that with my phonon-backend merge. Let's both make the changes then do the uploads together
[21:26] <Lex79> ok
[21:26] <JontheEchidna> (phonon package moved to phonon-backends package, I'm doing the first merge)
[21:27] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: btw I've to fix a pair of issues before doing that :(, we have time
[21:27] <JontheEchidna> no hurry :)
[21:27] <Lex79> good
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> we will get equalizer support in amarok with the new phonon though :)
[21:28] <Lex79> qt4 merging is so complicated because Debian switched to dh 7
[21:28] <Lex79> awesome
[21:30] <apachelogger> nookie^: you can just bounce ideas on how to improve stuff in kubuntu on the kubuntu-devel mailing list
[21:31] <nookie^> apachelogger: sure i will do that =)
[21:31] <nookie^> must leave now
[21:31] <nookie^> see ya!
[21:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development opinions on that structure approach?
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> looks saneish
[21:36] <Lex79> Kubuntu ninja before master of the universe I think :P
[21:37] <apachelogger> Nightrose: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development what do you think?
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> good point lex
[21:37] <apachelogger> Lex79: technically that is a career of it's own
[21:37]  * Nightrose looks
[21:37] <apachelogger> technically you don't need much of any official position within ubuntu to be kubuntu ninja
[21:38] <Lex79> ah yes
[21:38] <apachelogger> of course then you will always be subject to some core dev poking around in your changes
[21:39] <Nightrose> apachelogger: how about adding a "why it rocks" section?
[21:39] <Nightrose> "why it matter"
[21:39] <apachelogger> Riddell: you are talking in 20 arent you?
[21:39] <Nightrose> s
[21:39] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I was thinking we should communicate this via the description
[21:40] <Nightrose> i'd make it very explicit
[21:40] <Nightrose> bullet points
[21:40] <apachelogger> though maybe the why it rocks section could hold infos on what you learn and get out of that job
[21:40] <Nightrose> yea
[21:40] <apachelogger> like with packaging you learn a big deal about QA, if you listen to apachelogger every once in a while :P
[21:40] <Nightrose> haha
[21:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: goodness, so I am, best think up something to say
[21:41] <apachelogger> oh my
[21:41] <Nightrose> Riddell: talk about pink ponies and ninjas - they'll love you
[21:41]  * apachelogger hands Riddell his last cup of tea
[21:42] <apachelogger> ponies!
[21:42] <apachelogger> and the doctor
[21:42] <Riddell> too late, I've alread had three beers, I'm long past tea
[21:42] <Riddell> pink ponies what have they ever done for us?
[21:42] <apachelogger> oh dear
[21:42] <Nightrose> Riddell: made us smile of course
[21:42] <Nightrose> brought happy to the world
[21:42] <apachelogger> yeah
[21:42] <apachelogger> they look Qt
[21:42] <Nightrose> that too
[21:42] <apachelogger> Nightrose: == Why you want to do packaging ==
[21:43] <apachelogger> too long a title?
[21:43] <Nightrose> it is a bit long but okish
[21:43]  * apachelogger likes it long ;)
[21:43] <Nightrose> rofl
[21:45] <apachelogger> == Why it rocks ==
[21:45] <apachelogger>  * Learn about large scale software deployment
[21:45] <apachelogger>  * Learn about large scale quality assurance in large scale software deployments
[21:45] <apachelogger>  * Learn about large scale damage control after failed large scale quality assurance in large scale software deployments
[21:45] <apachelogger> :D
[21:45] <slacker_nl> lol
[21:46] <Nightrose> apachelogger: you know - too large can be bad!
[21:46] <Nightrose> ;-)
[21:46] <apachelogger> yes I do
[21:46] <apachelogger> unfortunately
[21:50] <apachelogger> Nightrose: please check again
[21:53] <Nightrose> apachelogger: i wouldn't necessarily us the last point in "why it rocks" ;-)
[21:55] <apachelogger> right
[21:55] <apachelogger> forgot to remove :)
[21:55] <apachelogger> Nightrose: but the general structure concept should work?
[21:55] <Nightrose> i'd say so
[21:55]  * apachelogger thinks it is especiall important to have some people listed to whom people can turn personally
[22:02] <skreech> apachelogger: Should we have a wiki page about cleaning up the Wiki :)
[22:03] <apachelogger> no
[22:03] <apachelogger> a google doc
[22:03] <apachelogger> those, unlike them darn moinmoin wiki pages are easy to use and difficult to loose
[22:07] <skreech> ok Is there a distinction between helping Kubuntu and Project Timelord ?
[22:23] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development
[22:24] <apachelogger> check out the ninja career :D
[22:24] <apachelogger> skreech: only if you are a kubuntu legend and need to care about poking people towards a certain area of the things to be done ;)
[22:24] <apachelogger> generally helping Kubuntu is the ultimate way to implement Project Timelord
[22:24] <apachelogger> since only with the appropriat resources the plan can be made reality
[22:26] <skreech> apachelogger: I'm just wondering if we should have a section that has an over view of where we are with project timelord and how you can help with that and a section for just now quick and dirty next release Kubuntu stuff
[22:27] <apachelogger> skreech: dunno, maybe JontheEchidna has an opinion on that
[22:27] <apachelogger> maintaining a status overview is overhead IMHO
[22:27] <apachelogger> compared ot the use at least
[22:27] <apachelogger> but maybe that is a wrong assumption :)
[22:30] <skreech> apachelogger: Overview in terms of Translations? Go here Patch Testing? Go here
[22:31] <apachelogger> skreech: pardon? cannot compute.
[22:32] <skreech> Well I would figure that each section of timelord would be detailed enough to warrant it's own page of how to get in and help NAOW
[22:33] <emonkey> apachelogger: Don't you think, there would be a way to make a deal with Canonical? I mean, I don't think that would be a problem if the donations will be invested in kubuntu?
[22:33] <apachelogger> skreech: sure, but someone needs to write that :)
[22:34] <apachelogger> emonkey: well, no, I am just saying, the donations are no good if the kubuntu council can't decide to spend them on a faster machine for Quintasan so he can actually do test building at sensible speed
[22:47] <slacker_nl> what is the ppa for kde packages (for lucid/karmic)?
[22:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development all done
[22:54] <apachelogger> probably needs a TOC
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger is a career? :P
[22:55] <apachelogger> yus :D
[22:56] <JontheEchidna> A TOC would help
[22:58] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: toc'ed
[23:00] <slacker_nl> Riddell: nice speech
[23:03] <Riddell> thanks
[23:03] <Riddell> I'm all typed out
[23:06] <slacker_nl> get some beers :)
[23:18] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you have some packaging tutorials from dev week or something at hand?
[23:18]  * apachelogger is not exactly up to date on the latest packaging guides
[23:18] <JontheEchidna> I seem to recall doing a KDE packaging session
[23:19] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: can you please join #kubuntu-netbook
[23:19]  * JontheEchidna looks around for the tut
[23:30] <claydoh> wow lots of action here today
[23:31] <claydoh> and I only managed to half-complete a wiki page :/
[23:31] <claydoh> you folks rock!
[23:44] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: when you mark phonon as being in progress what do you mean?  phonon is part of qt4
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: oh, should be phonon-backends
[23:45] <Riddell> ah
[23:45] <JontheEchidna> we still build the backends from the phonon package, which debian has changed to be named phonon-backends
[23:46] <JontheEchidna> the binary packages are still the same, so no nastiness there at least
[23:46]  * JontheEchidna needs to update the template for new 4.3 packages
[23:47] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: the transitional packages are moving from phonon-backends to qt4-x11, so the qt and phonon merged will need to be uploaded together
[23:48] <JontheEchidna> I'm coordinating with lex on that
[23:48] <Riddell> groovy
[23:49] <JontheEchidna> also, is the reorg going to happen this cycle or should I file my core-dev app?
[23:49] <Riddell> well core-dev doesn't hurt even with reorg
[23:52] <Riddell> I think reorg will happen with cycle but tech board log from today suggests it hasn't happened yet
[23:53] <JontheEchidna> squeeze has a rediculously old version of kdebluetooth o_o
[23:54] <Riddell> looks like 4.3.3 isn't going to compile tonight :(  guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow
[23:54]  * Riddell snoozes
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> :(