[00:27] <paultag> Hey guys, I am the Ohio LoCo Contact, and I was wondering if there was any way to get a member report -- just something simple joined on data, and a username. I would love to chart out how the team has grown ( or not )
[00:29] <wgrant> paultag: You could extract that data using launchpadlib (https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib)
[00:29] <paultag> wgrant: that's dead on what I need, thanks a ton :)
[00:30] <wgrant> paultag: In particular, you want to get the team and look at the 'members_details' attribute.
[00:30] <paultag> wgrant: outstanding. I had no idea, I was almost ready to resort to screen scraping ;)
[00:31]  * wgrant hasn't had to write any LP screenscraping code for more than a year now.
[00:32] <paultag> wgrant: a big achievement :)
[03:02] <doctormo> wgrant: My screen scaping code is still active. I should move it over.
[03:02] <wgrant> doctormo: What are you scraping?
[03:09] <doctormo> wgrant: Oh, pictures, names, emails that sort of thing.
[03:15] <doctormo> But it's site-to-site using launchpad as the auth.
[10:19] <rowinggolfer> the build queue is a bit of a traffic jam :(
[10:19] <rowinggolfer> a hangover from the karmic party?
[11:26]  * rowinggolfer watches his estimated build time increase :(
[12:02] <james_w> are the edge appservers having some trouble?
[12:05] <apw> intellectronica, about?
[12:14] <deryck> apw, intellectronica will be unavailable all week.
[12:14] <apw> oh
[12:14] <apw> ok
[13:03] <Soyo> In my launchpad account, when I try to sign the code of conduct it asks me for my OpenPGP key fingerprint. When I try to enter it, I get an error message saying it is already registered. Yet it does not show up in my account and I cannot sign the agreement.
[13:06] <Soyo> Does anyone have any experience with this?
[13:08] <Soyo> Will upgrading to 9.10 get me a new key?
[13:19] <Soyo> I am trying to sign the code of conduct which says I need to register my OpenPGP key. When I attempt to register it says that key is already registered but it is not showing up in my account. I am not sure what to do about this...
[13:21] <beuno> Soyo, could you have registered in another account?
[13:27] <mpt> Hm, this is a catch-22
[13:28] <mpt> I want to unsubscribe from a bug report because it's receiving so many comments and duplicates
[13:28] <mpt> but the number of comments and duplicates is causing the bug report to time out, so I can't unsubscribe
[13:31] <mpt> ah, it loads!
[13:36] <Soyo> beuno, possibly I guess...
[13:38] <Soyo> I doubt it though, none of my old e-mail accounts seem to work
[13:55] <DanielC> Question: What is a "project"? How does it differ from a branch?
[13:56] <DanielC> Is a project just a place where you put many branches?
[14:03] <beuno> DanielC, correct
[14:03] <DanielC> beuno: Thanks.
[14:06] <DanielC> beuno: It is alright if the branches in the project are entirely unrelated?
[14:06] <beuno> DanielC, sure, although you loose some benefits
[14:06] <DanielC> The project I want to make is sort of a meta-project that covers many small programs.
[14:07] <DanielC> Should I make a separate project for each program?
[14:07] <DanielC> I notice that MySQL seems to have some sort of meta-project (https://launchpad.net/mysql). How did they do that?
[14:10] <beuno> yeah, if you're going to have a set of projects that are grouped, you can ask for a project group to be created
[14:10] <beuno> and create a new project for each under it
[14:10] <DanielC> Ok. So a project group is what I want. How do I make one?
[14:10] <beuno> you will need to file a question in Launchpad asking for the project group, but the regular projects you can create yourself
[14:10] <DanielC> ok
[14:11] <DanielC> Thanks, I'll do that.
[14:13] <DanielC> Uhmm... I'm stupid today. I can't figure out how to ask a question in Launchpad. The only "Answers" options I see are on project pages, like MySQL.
[14:14] <beuno> DanielC, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[14:14] <beuno> launchpad in launchpad!
[14:14] <beuno> :)
[14:14] <DanielC> :-)
[14:14] <DanielC> thanks
[14:20] <Peng> "You have been subscribed to a public bug"? Yes, Launchpad, I was the one who subscribed me, and I already was indirectly subscribed anyway. :|
[14:25] <DanielC> beuno: Hmm... the website says that they only create project groups fro projects that "are established and can demonstrate that a project group would help them make the most of Launchpad.". In other words, we don't qualify yet.
[14:25] <DanielC> s/fro/for/
[14:25] <DanielC> Well, at least I know how it works.
[14:26] <beuno> DanielC, well, I don't know if we're that strict anymore
[14:26] <beuno> flacoste, sinzui, are we still that strict?  :)
[14:26] <DanielC> This is a brand new project. We don't have any code yet.
[14:27] <sinzui> We are still that strict. DanielC We want to make sure that the subprojects are separate code bases or produce a separate piece of work
[14:28] <DanielC> sinzui: Ok. So I should start by making separate projects and then I'd ask for a project group?
[14:28] <sinzui> DanielC: Yes, that helps a lot.
[14:28] <DanielC> Each sub project would be quite small. That's why I was initially thinking about branches.
[14:29] <sinzui> DanielC: Do they share milestones?
[14:29] <DanielC> Not really.
[14:30] <DanielC> If we are lucky, we might get students to contribute short term coding projects as part of a qualification in open source and programming.
[14:30] <DanielC> It's all a bit tentative.
[14:30] <sinzui> DanielC: Users will see the milestones for all the subprojects on the project group
[14:30] <DanielC> Ok.
[14:31] <DanielC> I don't think it matters much one way or the other.
[14:31] <sinzui> This is more because project groups do not work well. It should not force you to change your plans
[14:33] <DanielC> I'm fairly new to launchpad (and totally new to Bazaar) so I don't fully understand the pros and cons of having different projects or just different branches. To make things worse, I don't fully know the project requirements either :-)
[14:34] <DanielC> I was just asked yesterday to explore ways that we could have different projects out in the open, in the open source style (we are trying to teach kids about open source).
[14:34] <DanielC> So the whole idea is still a bit vague.
[14:35] <sinzui> DanielC: The principle value of a project group is that the owner can target bugs to milestones in subprojects. User cans search for bugs, blueprints, and answers that span a single project.
[14:37] <DanielC> Ok. I thought it was just an index of other projects.
[14:37] <DanielC> Is there a way to just get an index?
[14:38] <sinzui> No there is not. tagging/categorisation/browsing is not a feature we have built yet
[14:38] <DanielC> Ok.
[14:38] <DanielC> I guess I can keep a separate page elsewhere.
[14:38] <DanielC> mywebsite.com/our-projects.html
[14:39] <DanielC> Thanks for answering all my newbie questions :-)
[14:39] <sinzui> DanielC: to users/developer need to use more than one project? Does the code from these project iteroperate?
[14:39] <DanielC> sinzui: Not likely.
[14:40] <DanielC> I doubt it.
[14:40] <sinzui> By making the same team the owner of the projects, the projects will be listed together on the team's pages
[14:40] <DanielC> I like that idea.
[14:40] <DanielC> Thanks!
[14:42] <DanielC> Ah, but it means that anybody in the team can edit any project, right? That's ok for in-company work but if we ever actually get any students writing projects that could be a problem.
[14:45] <beuno> DanielC, you can make a team own the project(s)
[14:45] <beuno> and just add people to the team
[14:46] <DanielC> beuno: Thanks. The team would work great for now (initially it'll be just the company employees writing code). In the future, can we add a developer to one project without adding him to the team? (e.g. a student).
[14:47] <Peng> You could create an overall team with access to all projects, and project-specific teams. AIUI, you can make the overall team a sub-team of each project-specific team to give it access.
[14:47] <Peng> How many times can Peng use "team" in a sentence?
[14:48] <DanielC> That sounds perfect.
[14:48] <DanielC> So I can have the "management team", and every time a student makes a project we create a team that includes that student and the management team.
[14:49] <Peng> I think. I've seen something to that effect done; I just don't know how, so I'm guessing.
[14:49] <Peng> (With lp:~bzr and lp:~bzr-core.)
[14:49] <DanielC> Maybe beuno or sinzui can confirm.
[14:49] <nigel_nb> launchpad seems to have a problem
[14:50] <nigel_nb> I get the error message "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. "
[14:50] <DanielC> nigel_nb: Works for me. Try hitting refresh on  your browser.
[14:51] <DanielC> nigel_nb: It's probably just Internet gremlins.
[14:51] <nigel_nb> DanielC: I could access launchpad, bazar gave me trouble
[14:51] <nigel_nb> DanielC: now its started working again
[14:51] <DanielC> Magic.
[14:52] <nigel_nb> DanielC: hehe
[14:57] <beuno> DanielC, correct
[14:58] <beuno> also, anyone can push branches to any project
[14:58] <DanielC> Yay.
[14:58] <beuno> the team permissions are to be able to commit to a shared branch
[14:58] <beuno> but the workflow you can use is, anyone pushes up branches, files a merge proposal, and someone with permissions reviews and approves
[14:59] <DanielC> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by pushing branches to a project.
[14:59] <beuno> well, you can push any number of branches to a project
[15:00] <beuno> someone gets trunk, works on it, and pushed it up with a different name
[15:00] <DanielC> But only to projects you own.
[15:00] <beuno> nope, anyone can push to any project
[15:00] <beuno> see: http://code.launchpad.net/bzr
[15:00] <DanielC> Why would launchpad work like that?
[15:01] <beuno> because this is open source   :)
[15:01] <DanielC> Yeah, but open source doesn't mean "wiki".
[15:01] <LarstiQ> DanielC: they're still in your own namespace
[15:01] <LarstiQ> DanielC: ~danielc/project/branch
[15:01] <DanielC> ok
[15:01] <LarstiQ> DanielC: or in my case, ~larstiq/bzr/bug-15069
[15:01] <LarstiQ> etc
[15:01] <Peng> It's a wiki where anyone can add a User:Them/Foo page, not edit your pages.
[15:02] <Peng> There's nothing dangerous about it.
[15:02] <LeeJunFan> I've been getting timeout errors trying to file an ubuntu bug for a couple days now.
[15:02] <LarstiQ> DanielC: but they're easy to find by looking at the branch listing for the project
[15:02] <DanielC> Ok, so other people can put their branches in my project. Does that allow me to edit their branches?
[15:02] <Peng> DanielC: No.
[15:02] <LarstiQ> DanielC: no
[15:02] <DanielC> Ok.
[15:03] <LarstiQ> DanielC: you can merge them into your branch if you so wish, and thereby benefit from their work
[15:03] <DanielC> So all it does is make their branch show up on my project page.
[15:03] <DanielC> LarstiQ: ok
[15:04] <LarstiQ> DanielC: that, and give defaults for where to send merge requests to, where to stack on, easier linking to bugs, etc
[15:04] <Peng> It's about convenient organization, not some hippy edit-my-code free-for-all. :P
[15:04] <LarstiQ> DanielC: it is an aid to manage all the information
[15:04] <DanielC> Oh, I see how it works. The idea is that I might have a bug fix for (say) launchpad. So I make a branch with my bugfix and put it on the launchpad project, and if you like it you merge it.
[15:04] <LarstiQ> indeed
[15:04] <LarstiQ> DanielC: exactly
[15:04] <DanielC> thanks
[15:05] <LarstiQ> and if I don't like it, but other people do, they can use it, maybe change it to something I do approve, and then I merge it
[15:05] <DanielC> This could be useful to me actually. If we get a student doing a small project, they could just make a branch and put it on my project page.
[15:05] <LarstiQ> DanielC: yup
[15:05] <DanielC> So there's no need to make a bunch of projects and a bunch of complicated teams.
[15:05] <DanielC> Thanks!
[15:06] <LarstiQ> DanielC: np :)
[15:08] <DanielC> One more question. Tell me if I'm right: A branch is never owned by a project. It is owned by a person or a team. That team has to push that branch to the project so it appears on the project page.
[15:08] <beuno> DanielC, correct
[15:08] <DanielC> Ok, thanks.
[15:09] <DanielC> Launchpad looks really neat.
[15:12] <Peng> DanielC: You can make a branch the project's default, so that it will e.g. be accessible from "lp:project" instead of just "lp:~user/project/branch" and will be the default target for merge proposals.
[15:13] <DanielC> Peng: Thanks. That's very useful.
[15:13] <Peng> (It doesn't have to be a team-owned branch, either, FYI.)
[15:14] <DanielC> ok
[15:17] <barry> sinzui: i am back
[15:21] <sinzui> rock
[15:29] <Peng> roll? :D
[15:58] <Meths> Is launchpad stuck or just very slow at the moment in handling branch updates?
[16:20] <mac_v> !test
[16:21] <mac_v> hi , could someone shed some light on this  Bug #414401 ?  the checkbox to subscribe is also missing after the recent lp update ... so more users are not subscribing  , since they are not aware they need to
[16:22] <mac_v> any reason the user is not subscribed automatically?
[16:28] <kiko_work> deryck, intellectronica: do either of you know about this?
[16:28]  * deryck looks back
[16:30] <deryck> kiko_work, are you asking do we know about the bug?  Or why haven't we subscribed user automatically when they comment?
[16:32] <deryck> oh, I follow now that I look closer, sorry.
[16:32] <deryck> hmmm, but mac_v has left.
[16:32] <deryck> I can follow up when he reappears.
[16:34] <kiko_work> ah, this is because of the ajax change of course
[16:35] <deryck> right.  And I think we just haven't gotten the fix in to auto subscribe at this point.
[16:35]  * micahg thought the bug was clear...
[17:01] <fta> *sigh* more than 24h of ppa queue, it's unusable for dailies as they have no chance of getting published :(
[17:03] <Meths> branch updating is over an hour and a half and counting atm
[17:03] <noodles775> fta: people are trying to find out when we'll get the normal ppa servers back.
[17:03] <noodles775> Meths: that issue is being looked into currently too - rockstar might be able to give you an update.
[17:04]  * noodles775 really goes.
[17:04] <rockstar> Meths, yeah, there's something wrong.
[17:04] <fta> are the PPAs ready for lucid?
[17:05] <fta> (not that i want to start pushing my zillions stuff to lucid just yet)
[17:05] <fta> but i'm already getting requests..
[17:06] <fta> that would probably explode my quotas too
[17:27] <lfaraone> In launchpad, how do we mark a bug as affecting say... 1.0 of a project that has 2.0 and 3.0 out? (other than abusing tags)
[17:36] <bjsnider> ppa builds are being put off for quite awhile right now
[17:42] <pmjdebruijn> bjsnider: I noticed queue times are very long
[17:44] <bjsnider> it's odd because you wuoldn't think much of anything is being built at this point, nothing for the next distro, hardly anything for hardy and karmic
[17:46] <pmjdebruijn> yeah, it's pretty ennoying, I'm going to have to sleep on my builds :(
[17:50] <mac_v> deryck: Hi , I didnt understand your latest tag in Bug #414401 ?  is it for just reference or does it also prioritize the bug in anyway? [i realize that is not the bug importance]  :)
[17:51] <deryck> mac_v, the bugs team is keeping track via "bug-page" for things to work on this week actually.  So some chance it can be picked up and landed next week.
[17:52] <deryck> mac_v, otherwise, "bug-page" just means bug page related work we need to do that is otherwise not scheduled.
[17:52] <mac_v> deryck: awesome... thanks... :)
[17:52] <deryck> it's more for me than anyone else.
[17:53] <kiko_work> lfaraone, there's no way to do that right now unless 1.0 and 2.0 are separate series
[17:53] <kiko_work> lfaraone, i.e. meaning you'd be willing to fix it in the two branches if necessary
[17:53] <kiko_work> bjsnider, fta, pmjdebruijn: I believe the builders were borrowed for the ubuntu release but should be back
[17:55] <lfaraone> kiko_work: okay.
[18:00] <lfaraone> kiko_work / kiko , would you have a chance to chat with our sysadmin for a minute about branding?
[18:10] <lfaraone> kiko_work: bernie currently manages bugs.sl.o, and he wanted some clarification on a few points.
[18:12] <kiko_work> lfaraone, I can't, but flacoste or jml or kfogel will be able to
[18:12] <lfaraone> kiko_work: okay.
[18:13] <lfaraone> flacoste, jml, kfogel, ping.
[18:14] <joh> Hi, how do I remove a "linked package" from my project?
[18:14] <joh> https://launchpad.net/alarm-clock/trunk <-- links to package 'alarm-clock' which is another project.
[18:14] <lfaraone> joh: I think that requires manual intervention. File a question against launchpad itself, I think.
[18:14] <joh> lfaraone: uhm, ok
[18:15] <joh> Ah, I can delete it from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alarm-clock
[18:16] <bernie> hello everyone
[18:19] <kfogel> lfaraone: hi
[18:20] <lfaraone> kfogel: hi.
[18:20] <lfaraone> bernie: ^^^
[18:21] <lfaraone> bernie: if I understand correctly, essentially we're wondering when/if Launchpad will allow us to have "branded domains", so that rather than pointing people at https://launchpad.net/sugarlabs, we can show them https://bugs.sugarlabs.org
[18:21] <kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: I'm in a conversation with both of you, right? :-)
[18:22] <lfaraone> kfogel: theoretically :P
[18:22] <bernie> kfogel: yep, I'm listening
[18:22] <bernie> kfogel: I've reviewd the test instance of LP running on EC2 with the Sugar Labs bug database imported, and it looks great. Thanks to whoever did the work.
[18:22] <lfaraone> bernie: that would be deryck.
[18:23] <kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: heh, okay.  So, we have been considering the branded domain thing for a while, but it's not on our near-term roadmap.  I can't make you any promises.  I can, however, mention internally that Sugar Labs was interested in this question.
[18:23] <kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: glad the bug db import looked good!  Yes, deryck is to be thanked, iiuc.
[18:24] <bernie> kfogel: yes, it would be very important to us to have all our infrastructure consistently under *.sugarlabs.org, possibly with "side links" to the various services.
[18:24] <kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: is the domain branding thing a nice-to-have, very-nice-to-have, must-have, ... for you?
[18:24] <kfogel> bernie: I completely understand the feeling.  It's just an implementation question for us (how much work vs how much will it help make some potential users more comfortable w/ Launchpad).
[18:25] <bernie> kfogel: I'd say the domain name is a must-have, while the customized link-bar would be a very -nice-to-have
[18:26] <bernie> kfogel: others within SL are already nervous because we're oursouring hosting of very critical component of our development infrastructure to partners like Canonical and Nokia
[18:26] <kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: *nod*.  Okay.  I'll point this out internally, but again can't make any promises.  I hope Launchpad will remain in consideration even without it, though it sounds like it may be a tough sell.
[18:28] <LarstiQ> federation yay *sniff*
[18:28] <bernie> kfogel: I think we'd rather try to run our own instance in this case, although I know it would be extremely painful
[18:29] <lfaraone> bernie: that's really highly discouraged, btw, and we'd have to replace all the images, CSS, etc which aren't GPL'd.
[18:29] <bernie> kfogel: is LP's codebase going to be installable on karmic anytime soon, btw?
[18:29] <kfogel> bernie: mrmrmph.  Not sure what to say, except: I'm very sorry you don't have our production & IS team! :-)
[18:29] <kfogel> bernie: it should work on karmic now (I'm building as we speak)
[18:29] <kiko_work> bernie, kfogel, lfaraone: as I said, you could easily set up a redirect to launchpad.net/foo without any DNS or hosting magic required
[18:29] <bernie> kfogel: that's encouraging news!
[18:29] <kfogel> bernie:, lfaraone: what kiko_work said.  THe URLs you advertise can be whatever you want, and then redirect as needed.
[18:31] <bernie> kfogel: but still, we shall not underestimate the amount of work to keep something as huge as LP running. We don't want our bug database to become a bigger time-sink than Trac was.
[18:31] <kiko_work> bernie, lfaraone: ultimately you must realize that even though you are outsourcing, you're outsourcing to somebody (us) who depends on this infrastructure 24x7 to run operations, and the codebase is free software.. hard to beat LP as a platform
[18:31] <lfaraone> kiko_work: I understand, and I don't have a problem personally with being at lp.net.
[18:31] <kiko_work> so the outsourcing argument is really moot -- we work really hard to keep things running and as I said your data is yours if you want to export it away
[18:32] <kiko_work> the branding.. you could get around it with frame/iframing, but the question is, do you really want to? if you look at the branding today, it is pretty much project-centric with the exception of the URL itself
[18:32] <bernie> kiko_work: yes, I trust Canonical to be able to keep LP running more than anyone else on the planet :-)
[18:32] <kiko_work> LP only appears in the footer
[18:33] <kiko_work> and think of what you get in return!
[18:34] <kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: I've got an idea: take those resources you'd spend running your own instance, and instead start a conversation on the launchpad-dev list about implementing domain branding :-).
[18:34] <lfaraone> kiko_work: we understand, and we're greatly appreciate what canonical is offering.
[18:35] <kiko_work> heh
[18:35] <kiko_work> kfogel, oh, good point -- if you're really interested in the branding work, then maybe you could offer to lead it?
[18:35] <kiko_work> kfogel, i.e. s/you're/sugarlabs are/ :)
[18:36] <bernie> kiko_work: well, we have to make all our web infrastructure look consistent somehow. it' would make us look disorganized if we hosted each piece of infrastructure on a different domain name, with a wildly different look and feel, and with no cross-links between the services
[18:37] <bernie> kfogel: that could probably be done... how much work do you think that would take?
[18:37] <kfogel> bernie: Well, I don't know, but people on the launchpad-dev@ list do know.
[18:37] <kfogel> s/people/other people/
[18:38] <lfaraone> I know a few good Zope hackers, and I've been meaning to get my hands dirty for a while now.
[18:38] <kiko_work> bernie, largely depends on far you want the branding to go -- I mean, at some point you need to say "this is where sugarlabs.org ends" -- i.e. user pages, etc
[18:38] <kfogel> It would be a welcome conversation, actually, with a concrete need by a specific organization driving it.
[18:38] <bernie> kfogel: LP seems to be using relative URLs most of the time, where is it that "launchpad.net" is being hard-coded?
[18:38] <kfogel> bernie: I'm actually not sure what the technical blockers have been; probably certs are part of it.
[18:39] <bernie> kfogel: oh, yes... damn ssl
[18:39] <lfaraone> bernie: yeah, we'd need to get a SSL cert.
[18:39] <kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: but let's not guess.  Let's have this conversation on the dev ml.
[18:39] <lfaraone> kfogel: can't the sabdfl get us a free Thawte cert? ;)
[18:39] <CarlFK> I used to be able to log in to sf using my lp openid - now I can't figure out how - anyone know wut happen?
[18:39] <kfogel> Getting a cert is not that hard.  It's having the right place to put it that might be hard :-).
[18:39] <kfogel> hah
[18:40] <kfogel> CarlFK: can you describe exact symptom?
[18:40] <kfogel> lfaraone: heh.  No, I think he sold that off :-).
[18:40] <bernie> lfaraone: even if we gave them a certificate for bugs.sugarlabs.org, ssl has trouble with virtual hosts not sharing the same base domain.
[18:40] <CarlFK> kfogel: I can't find a place to type my lp open ID
[18:40] <bernie> lfaraone: you'd have to use a different IP for each vhost
[18:41] <bernie> kfogel: LP uses apache as a frontend, right?
[18:41] <kfogel> CarlFK: that sounds like a question for the sf admins (?).  Did their interface change?
[18:41] <RenatoSilva> Is it possible to turn certain project into a project group?
[18:41] <CarlFK> kfogel: yes, and I guess so.  #sf didn't have an answer
[18:41] <RenatoSilva> Is it possible someone do that for me?
[18:41] <lfaraone> RenatoSilva: yes, file a request on launchpad itself asking so.
[18:41] <lfaraone> *answer request
[18:42] <kfogel> bernie: yup
[18:42] <RenatoSilva> lfaraone: where exactly? a bug?
[18:42] <RenatoSilva> lfaraone: ah ok
[18:42] <RenatoSilva> lfaraone: under launchpad project ?
[18:42] <kfogel> RenatoSilva: I think that's right.
[18:42] <RenatoSilva> ok thanks
[18:43] <lfaraone> RenatoSilva: yes.
[18:43] <RenatoSilva> ok
[18:43] <lfaraone> CarlFK: might want to email their sysadmin team, we can't really help you with that afaic.t
[18:44] <CarlFK> lfaraone: yeah - was hoping someone had a definitive 'they removed it' or 'the moved it over here'
[18:44] <bernie> kfogel: with clever mod_rewrite rules in the bugs.sugarlabs.org vhost, we could really make LP think the URLs are still all launchpad.net
[18:44] <lfaraone> bernie: what happens when you go to a URL that's no longer part of "
[18:45] <bernie> kfogel: the ssl issue could be resolved if we could assign an extra IP to the machine(s) hosting LP
[18:45] <lfaraone> bernie: what happens when you go to a URL that's no longer part of "sugarlabs", but rather than LP?
[18:45] <lfaraone> bernie: ie http://launchpad.sugarlabs.org/~jrhacker, should that be LP or SL-LP?
[18:46] <bernie> lfaraone: oh, I see. Users would still be global.
[18:46] <kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: not sure what to do in that case.  It could redirect to regular lp; that might be best.  What you basically want is for all sugarlabs-owned projects to be accessible under *.sugarlabs.org, not necessarily anything else.
[18:47] <RenatoSilva> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/210
[18:47] <lfaraone> kfogel: agreed.
[18:47] <RenatoSilva> *** Existing projects can /not/ be converted into project groups ***
[18:47] <RenatoSilva> We only create project groups for projects that are established and can demonstrate that a project group would help them make the most of Launchpad.
[18:47] <lfaraone> RenatoSilva: okay, so just have your current project renamed.
[18:47] <RenatoSilva> Well, I just want to group the projects
[18:48] <bernie> lfaraone: well, I guess that's less of a problem, as kfogel says.
[18:48] <RenatoSilva> lfaraone: ok I'll ask the onwer to rename it, or either create a new name for the group
[18:48] <kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: another interesting idea: what if you used Launchpad's infrastructure (as hosted by us right now), and wrote custom front-ends (perhaps using our existing UI  ajax code) to talk to it via the APIs.  ?
[18:48] <lfaraone> Assuming all bugs are public, is there any sensitive data in the XML dump from trac-lp-migrator?
[18:49] <kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: while a lot of work, it's still probably less work in the long run than maintaining your own Launchpad.
[18:49] <lfaraone> kfogel: hm...
[18:49] <bernie> kfogel: interesting idea, but LP's sleek UI is our #1reason for switching... we could not beat it easily.
[18:50] <kfogel> bernie: steal as much of it as you want (though rebrand the images, of course)
[18:50] <zsquareplusc> known downtime or is it just me getting a timeout when reporting a bug?
[18:50] <lfaraone> zsquareplusc: probably the latter.
[18:50] <bernie> kfogel: are the presentation and the engine already separated by means of the public API? That would be terrific
[18:50] <bernie> kfogel: truly 3-tier architecture
[18:51] <kfogel> bernie: mostly, yup.  See help.launchpad.net/API
[18:51] <bernie> wow
[18:51] <bernie> kudos
[18:51] <lfaraone> kfogel: does the UI code already use the public API?
[18:51] <kfogel> bernie: our UI makes REST calls just the way anyone else does.  (I'm not saying the separation is 100% clean, but in theory that's the way it work, and I believe it's largely true in practice too).
[18:52] <lfaraone> kfogel: I'm still wondering if it'd be easier just to do the modifications to trunk launchpad. It might be more expensive for you folks, however, if you have to maintain separate certs and another IP
[18:53] <zsquareplusc> lfaraone: a no it's the problem when the description is too long. that bit be two days ago. just to bad that the description was filled in automatically by apport
[18:53] <kfogel> lfaraone: well, I doubt Canonical is going to pay for Sugarlabs's cert :-), and anyway that shouldn't be a major expense here.
[18:54] <kfogel> lfaraone: but raise it on launchpad-dev, and be clear how important this is to you.  Let's at least find out how hard custom-domain-branding would be.
[18:55] <lfaraone> kfogel: (I was refering to the cost of the IP, and the added engineering cost of maintaining the configuration)
[18:55] <lfaraone> kfogel: okay.
[18:55] <lfaraone> bernie: shall you or should I?
[18:55] <bernie> lfaraone, kfogel: I guess a CA-Cert signed certificate would be enough for us at this time... the bug db is not meant to be used by end users (yet).
[18:56] <bernie> lfaraone: you've been in touch with everyone much longer than me, I guess it's your call
[18:56] <bernie> lfaraone: please, cc me
[18:56] <lfaraone> bernie: okay.
[18:57] <Soyo> So I am trying to sign the code of conduct but it does not show that any of my OpenPGP keys. When try to use my public key it says it has already been imported... Does someone else have my key (or did I use it already in another account somehow that I forgot about?) If so what do I do now?
[18:57] <Soyo> Can I get a new public key like making a private key?
[18:57] <bernie> kfogel, kiko_work: I'd like to add that we're very grateful for your support
[18:57]  * lfaraone seconds bernie.
[18:58] <bernie> kiko_work, kfogel: btw, Sugar Labs is also looking for rack space in Boston to host a 2U machine that would load-balance this high-traffic service: http://activities.sugarlabs.org
[18:58] <kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: hey, thanks.
[18:59] <bernie> kiko_work, kfogel: it's high traffic, but not high bandwidth as we have a good content distribution network
[19:00] <kfogel> bernie: related to the launchpad stuff, or just an independent thing?
[19:01] <lfaraone> kfogel: activities.sl.o is a "mozilla addons" clone for sugarlabs.
[19:01] <lfaraone> kfogel: so this is a separate deal, iiuc
[19:01] <bernie> kfogel: independent, but if we'd settle on installing a custom LP frontend, that would be certainly the machine of choice.
[19:02] <bernie> kfogel: if the LP admins could do the setup work and help us co-maintain it, I guess we could even run an entire LP instance there.  We don't lack the hardware, just the expertise.
[19:02] <Soyo> If my OpenPGP key has "already been imported" but doesn't show up in my launchpad account profile how do I sign the code of conduct?
[19:02] <kiko_work> that's quite odd though
[19:02] <kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: I think we're not offering that (support for other LP installations), though can ask.  I'd be surprised, though.
[19:02] <kiko_work> where is it saying "already been imported"?
[19:03] <Soyo> https://launchpad.net/~p1l0t/+editpgpkeys
[19:03] <kiko_work> bernie, lfaraone: we really don't have the resource for doing that today
[19:03] <Soyo> When I press import key it says its already imported but my account shows nothing.
[19:08] <Soyo> I tried creating an additional key and sending it but that did not work either. I don't know which one it looks for... Is it possible to change the orginal pub key?
[19:11] <lfaraone> kiko_work: understood, makes sense.
[19:14] <kiko_work> Soyo, that's really odd. it says the key is already imported? what text are you putting in the field?
[19:15] <bernie> kfogel: yeah, I realize that would not be a "standard" service. We're (bluntly) asking for some special treatment here.
[19:16] <Soyo> You know I think I used the wrong key, that key shows the uid for openoffice. I made a new key but that one I can't get to work.
[19:16] <kiko_work> Soyo, so what does the text you're pasting into the field look like?
[19:16] <bernie> kiko_work: ok, no problem. I'm sure we'll find some rack space within boston greater area :)
[19:17] <Soyo> 33E4 9*** **** ****...
[19:17] <kiko_work> Soyo, normally the error message gives you a link to keyserver.ubuntu.com -- did it this time?
[19:17] <Soyo> yes
[19:18] <Soyo> maybe I used the keyserver command wrong..
[19:18] <Soyo> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys
[19:19] <Soyo> did I miss a parameter there?
[19:19] <kfogel> bernie: *nod*  I can ask; not sure whether Canonical will want to do that, though.  It's a big step, b/c the LP admins work exclusively on Launchpad.net right now.
[19:20] <kiko_work> Soyo, no, that looks right -- what's your keyid? (you can share it, the public key is exactly that -- public)
[19:20] <Soyo> The pub is 33E4 9EFD 7816 9ABF 8E94  0EBB E6C9 71CC A28C 3733
[19:22] <bernie> kfogel: thanks... I realize we're creating a big deal of inconvenience to you (and all our partners, actually)
[19:22] <Soyo> Error handling request
[19:22] <Soyo> Error handling request: No keys found
[19:22] <kiko_work> Soyo, try doing a
[19:22] <Soyo> (from keyserver.ubuntu.com)
[19:22] <bernie> kfogel: it's hard to be a fast-growing project with very low budget
[19:23] <kiko_work> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-key A28C3733
[19:23] <kiko_work> Soyo, and see if that works?
[19:23] <Soyo> ok
[19:23] <kfogel> bernie: oh, it's no inconvenience, don't worry.  So, after some discussion here (we were able to do it in real-time), it looks like support from our LP admins for external Launchpad instances is not on the table.  It's not just a matter of resources (though that's part of it); it's also that it's just not aligned with our direction really.
[19:23] <kfogel> Sorry we can't offer that.
[19:24] <Soyo> took longer thats a good sign..
[19:24] <Soyo> nice thats what it was thanks so much for the help!
[19:25] <kiko_work> Soyo, cool, enjoy :)
[19:25] <kiko_work> Soyo, just so you know, the key-id is the last 8 characters of your fingerpring
[19:25] <kiko_work> fingerprint
[19:25] <kiko_work> that's what I used to send-key
[19:25] <Soyo> Yeah I guess the plural --send-keys must not work for me
[19:26] <Soyo> or still requires the key-ids anyway
[19:26] <Soyo> Thanks again
[19:27]  * kiko_work waves
[19:27] <kiko_work> outta here!
[19:33] <kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: from Edwin Grubbs, one of our devs: "It might be possible for sugarlabs to use mod_proxy plus
[19:33] <kfogel> mod_proxy_html to rewrite not just the requesting urls but also the
[19:33] <kfogel> urls in links appearing in the response. I've never used it before, so
[19:33] <kfogel> I don't know if there are any gotchas.
[19:33] <kfogel> http://apache.webthing.com/mod_proxy_html/
[19:33] <kfogel> "
[19:34] <kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: getting *that* technique working is something we'd be very interested in, btw.  As in, if you do it, I think we'd want to write it up so other people can do it too.  If it involves some changes in our Apache configuration or even in Launchpad, that might not be a showstopper, depending on what's needed.
[19:36] <lfaraone> kfogel: interesting... although I always heard that mod_proxy was painfully slow.
[19:36] <lfaraone> I'll see if I can take a look at it.
[19:36] <kfogel> lfaraone: ok
[19:41] <bernie> lfaraone: yes, you do one extra http connection for each request. actually 2: one client-side, one server-side
[19:41] <bernie> kfogel, lfaraone: why wouldn't mod_rewrite also work for us? there's a special type of rewrite that works like a proxy
[19:41]  * bernie reads the description of mod_proxy_html
[19:42] <bernie> oh, I see...
[19:42] <bernie> understood
[19:52] <kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: got some more feedback internally.  privmsg me a good email addr to send it to.
[20:30] <ripps> Has the Karmic iso downloading slowed down enough yet that someone can throw an i386 ppa builder for a few hours?
[20:38] <lfaraone> kfogel: sent
[20:38] <lfaraone> kfogel: oh, didn't realize you had already sent the email
[20:46] <popey> what ever happened to the button that showed where someones karmic came from
[20:46] <popey> https://edge.launchpad.net/~frandieguez/+karma
[20:46] <popey> i see no link that shows the entire history, I'm sure there used to be one
[20:54] <beuno> popey, I don't remember there every being one
[20:56] <popey> pretty sure I'm not on crack, we used to use it for the membership meetings, so i can see how far back and how sporadic someones contributions were
[20:56] <popey> very handy
[21:04] <soren> popey: You mean which project?
[21:14] <popey> no soren I'm sure it listed out the karma, maybe I'm on crack,
[21:15] <soren> popey: You mean you want to see how much of each type of karma (translations, uploads, bug work, questions, etc.) someone has?
[21:16] <soren> popey: Oh.
[21:16] <soren> popey: Oh, I think I know what you mean now.
[21:16] <popey> it was a big fat list with dates
[21:17]  * soren does not remember ever seeing such a list.
[21:17]  * soren remembers wanting to see such a list, though.
[21:29] <mwhudson> noodles775: still here?
[23:14] <lfaraone> kfogel: hm. upon futher meditation, I think that we might need something more complex than what Deliverance or mod_proxy provides. (I'll have to look at Deliverance closely, though). I'm not sure how we'd have Deliverance check "if project link is NOT in superproject foo, redirect!", for example)
[23:15] <kfogel> lfaraone: mrmrm.  I'm not an expert by any means -- was really just passing on the others' thoughts.  I wouldn't be surprised if you have to do more, yeah.
[23:17] <wgrant> I'm confused.
[23:17] <lfaraone> kfogel: mk. So, should we still post to the ML about it, to ask how difficult it'd be to do server-side?
[23:17] <wgrant> Why are we discussing phishing?
[23:18] <kfogel> wgrant: ? we are?
[23:18] <kfogel> lfaraone: sure.  what you're discussing is, in essence, a launchpad feature that we either do have, or don't have, need some more work to have :-).
[23:19] <wgrant> I haven't read the whole conversation, but it looks to me like there is a discussion going on about proxying LP under a domain used by somebody else, which sounds very dangerous and rather like phishing.
[23:21] <kfogel> wgrant: it is dangerous, but the intent is custom domain branding, not phishing.
[23:22] <lfaraone> wgrant: well, we'd need some SSO magic and we'd redirect logins to launchpad, but essentially, yes.
[23:22] <lfaraone> wgrant: what kfogel said.
[23:22] <wgrant> But it sounds like you'd have lots of LP cookies, which is completely unsafe.
[23:23] <lfaraone> wgrant: ideally, we'd CNAME to something.launchpad.net and you'd have all the cookies.
[23:23] <lfaraone> wgrant: we'd be happy to have all the people with access to our DNS sign a agreement with canonical to not be evil.
[23:24] <kfogel> wgrant, lfaraone: I'm afk in a moment, but this is a technical discussion that needs to happen obviously.  Don't let my absence stop you!  I'm not much of a security expert anyway.
[23:24] <lfaraone> wgrant: do you think this could be done in a way that would be acceptable, security-wise, to you?
[23:25] <lfaraone> *do you
[23:25] <wgrant> I have nothing to do with anything.
[23:25] <wgrant> I'm just a rather scared user at the moment.
[23:26]  * jpds hugs wgrant.
[23:26] <lfaraone> wgrant: okay. essentially, we'd like dev.sugarlabs.org to be where subprojects of Sugarlabs reside.
[23:26] <lifeless> kfogel: what do you mean by 'custom domain branding'
[23:27] <wgrant> The way I could see it done is have branded domains with privileges limited by project.
[23:27] <wgrant> That would be useful for launchpadlib users too.
[23:27] <kfogel> lifeless: some people want to use launchpad.net, but want their URLs to say "mydomainhere.com"
[23:27] <lifeless> lfaraone: do you want custom look, or custom url?
[23:27] <lfaraone> lifeless: URL, primarily.
[23:27] <kfogel> lifeless: I sent a mail on internal canonical-launchpad list about this, actually.
[23:27] <lifeless> lfaraone: and do you need partitioning (only sugarlabs things show up)
[23:28] <lifeless> lfaraone: and finally, is it for entry-to - that is you want to be able to hand out stable urls, or is it the title bar has to say dev.s.o ?
[23:28] <lfaraone> lifeless: partitioning would be useful.
[23:28] <lfaraone> lifeless: The latter.
[23:28] <lifeless> wgrant: if d.s.o has the cookies, can foo.s.o or s.o use them ?
[23:28] <lfaraone> lifeless: so a redirect wouldn't suffice, if that's what you were indicating.
[23:28] <lifeless> wgrant: I though cookies descended down, not up.
[23:29] <wgrant> lifeless: Not if they're restricted to d.s.o, no.
[23:29] <lifeless> lfaraone: just grokking the space
[23:29] <lifeless> kfogel: yes, I recall that mail
[23:29] <wgrant> lifeless: But it's still going to involve the owners of sugarlabs.org having privileges over far more than Sugar Labs projects.
[23:30] <lfaraone> lifeless: if we were to restrict the cookies to SSL only, and were to purchase a SSL certificate and transfer the generated certificate to you in a way where we would not have a copy of it, then even if we changed the DNS we'd not be able to access LP cookies IIRC
[23:30] <lfaraone> *you were to restrict
[23:30] <wgrant> lfaraone: You'd just need to get a new certificate.
[23:30] <wgrant> lfaraone: Cookies are bound to the domain name (and potentially protocol), not the certificate.
[23:30] <lfaraone> wgrant: Sugarlabs.org is owned by the Software Freedom Law Centre. Hardly a security risk.
[23:30] <wgrant> (sadly)
[23:30] <lifeless> lfaraone: you'd be able to switch the DNS to a new server with a new certificate, if you were to go evil.
[23:30] <wgrant> lfaraone: Given what Launchpad controls access to...
[23:31] <lfaraone> wgrant: well, then the cookies can be keyed per domain, so that the SL LP cookies don't work on LP.net
[23:31] <wgrant> lfaraone: Exactly what I suggested should be done. Allow a cookie to be restricted to some group of projects.
[23:32] <wgrant> So SL can break SL projects, but nothing else.
[23:32] <lfaraone> wgrant: ah.
[23:32] <wgrant> That sounds like it would be useful in general, anyway.
[23:32] <lifeless> lfaraone: lp's code base needs to be extended to do that, but yes.
[23:32] <lfaraone> lifeless: okay. now, on the other part, partitioning, is that going to be difficult?
[23:32] <lifeless> lfaraone: I refuse to estimate difficulty for stuff I won't be doing :)
[23:33] <lifeless> lfaraone: because I *will* get it wrong, and hilarity ensues.
[23:33] <lfaraone> lifeless: I bet.
[23:34] <lfaraone> lifeless: I'll see if I can con a fellow student into doing it / teaching me how to do it.
[23:34] <lifeless> however, it might be possible to do a 'hack' where d.s.o gets 'rooted' at a project group and adds that to various searches
[23:34] <lifeless> I strongly imagine that this would be a bug-prone approach
[23:35] <lfaraone> lifeless: riiight. if someone could change the superprojects of SL on the SL LP site, they could add any projject?
[23:36] <lifeless> lfaraone: thats one aspect, another is that things like searches and views and related $foo don't go through a single choke-point at the moment
[23:36] <lifeless> so there isn't a single place we can change to say 'only show if related to $group-x'
[23:36] <lfaraone> lifeless: it's not the end of the world if searches include non LP projects.
[23:36] <lfaraone> *non-SL LP
[23:36] <lfaraone> lifeless: the important thing is that if you click onto a non-SLLP project, you be redirected to lp.net
[23:38] <lifeless> lfaraone: I suspect that will be tricky too, but I could be surprised.
[23:38] <lifeless> this isn't something LP is engineered to do :(
[23:38] <lfaraone> lifeless: I see. if anything, it'd be expensive.
[23:38] <lfaraone> in terms of computing power.
[23:39] <wgrant> That redirection bit wouldn't be too difficult, I don't think.
[23:40] <wgrant> canonical_url is already set up to do similar things.
[23:41] <kirkland> could someone get this git import working again for me: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/qemu-kvm/git
[23:41] <lfaraone> wgrant: well, we'd have to do something like "if projecname not in sugarlabs.subprojects: return 'REDIRECT http://foo.bar"
[23:44] <lfaraone> wgrant: that's a lot of lookups.
[23:45] <wgrant> lfaraone: Not compared to the number of queries executed already, and it could easily be cached.
[23:45] <wgrant> But anyway, that's only a tiny subset of the issue.
[23:46] <lfaraone> wgrant: Okay. In your mind, what is the most difficult part?
[23:46] <lfaraone> I'm not too familiar with Zope in general, nor Launchpad specifically.
[23:46] <wgrant> I cannot say.