/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/11/03/#ubuntu-devel.txt

gpits internationa national emergency pl help me00:00
Picigp: This isn't a support channel, please use #ubuntu-server or #ubuntu00:03
joaopintohum, Giant Panda what is that :) ?00:03
ebroderDoes anybody know if it's possible to get the list of package versions I've uploaded through launchpadlib? (i.e. the equivalent of https://launchpad.net/~broder/+related-software)00:08
wgrantebroder: No.00:08
ebroderwgrant: As in it's not possible?00:10
wgrantebroder: That's right. You can list uploads in a particular PPA, but that's about as close as you can get at this time.00:11
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showardHello, a regression was reported in LP where a qtiplot (an important science program) was rendered unusable (bug #471238).01:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 471238 in qtiplot "Program crashes when doing any plot or fit" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47123801:48
showardI've confirmed the bug, wrote a patch that fixes it, and tested the patch to be working. As per the SRU proceedure on the wiki, I'm posting here to get some attention to it01:49
showardthank you!01:50
jdongshoward: looking at it right now01:59
jdongshoward: you can feel free to take comment #3 and edit the original description of the bug with that02:00
jdongshoward: change changelog section from karmic --> karmic-proposed02:00
LaserJockshoward: well done on that bug report, thanks for looking at that bug02:02
showardjdong: thanks, got it targeting karmic-proposed02:14
showardjdong: thanks! One last thing, I can't upload - is there anything else I should do (subscribe motu-sponsor?) or is it out of my hands now?02:31
jdongshoward: you should definietly subscribe universe sponsors02:38
jdongI'm unfortunately not in a location where I can sponsor the upload at the moment02:38
jdongso if you can "kidnap" a MOTU in a more timely manner02:39
jdongI should point out that LaserJock just spoke and even in an manner implying he's interested about the bug ;-)02:39
LaserJock:-)02:40
showardha thanks - LaserJock - mind if I take you to the back room and hold you for ransom (or at least sponsoring ;-) )02:42
ebroderHmm...I'm intrigued by this ransom thing. I should try it some time02:42
ebroder(And jdong is even in the same room as me right now!)02:43
jdongebroder: haven't you abused that once already tonight??02:46
ebroderjdong: Totally quentin's fault, not mine!02:46
LaserJockjdong: the previous version is a build1 should the SRU be a ubuntu0.1?02:52
jdongLaserJock: it's a corner case I haven't much dealt with before. 0.1 is a bit better, yeah02:53
bryceanyone else seeing wiki.ubuntu.com breakage?03:08
ebroderYep03:08
kklimondaindeed03:08
syn-ackwow03:11
syn-ackyeah, its pretty broken, I'd say03:11
brycelost my edits :-(03:14
ebroder==03:14
LaserJockshoward: btw, yes I'm working on it :-)03:14
ajmitchebroder: so you've not been adversely affected by jdong's madness?03:15
ebroderajmitch: Would I be able to tell?03:15
ajmitchtrue...03:15
showardlaserjock: thanks - by the way, i'm a laser jock too03:17
LaserJockshoward: awesome03:17
dotblankWell looks like karmic broke suspend/resume.. worked in 9.04 but in .10 it does not work at all05:16
dotblank<< on the asus n50v05:16
lifeless#ubuntu-bugs for bug reports ;)05:17
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billisniceI find 9.10 sluggish and slow? 9.04 runs great but 9.10 is slow...anyone else notice the slowness?06:30
dholbachgood morning07:19
TheMuso`c07:25
hyperairdoes anyone get sreadahead terminating prematurely during bootup?07:40
spaetz_who did the new tux boot screen. dos?07:47
spaetz_oops, wrong channel07:47
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amik is there a k/ubuntu updates changelog somewhere? where I can see which packages were updated and when?08:03
wgrantamik: http://lists.ubuntu.com/listinfo/<RELEASE>-changes (eg. karmic-changes)08:03
amik"The requested URL /listinfo/karmic-changes was not found on this server." - or did I mistype something?08:05
amikwgrant: http://lists.ubuntu.com/listinfo/karmic-changes gives me a 404, is tha the link?08:07
dholbachhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/karmic-changes should redirect you to the right page08:07
dholbachah, a mailman was missing08:08
amikdholbach: translation? :-)08:09
debfxamik: http://feeds.ubuntu-nl.org/UbuntuChanges08:10
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amikthanks debfx08:14
pittiGodo morning08:21
hyperairTheMuso`: ping (re sdl). could we have libsdl1.2debian depend on libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio | blah blah instead of libsdl1.2debian-alsa | blah blah?08:23
hyperairTheMuso`: the alsa-pulseaudio plugin sucks badly with sdl using apps08:23
hyperairmainly due to the -alsa plugin being installed automatically instead of -pulseaudio08:24
pittiScottK: thanks for pointing out!08:32
pittifree: please have a look at bug 46602808:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 466028 in landscape-client "landscape-sysinfo crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46602808:32
* ogra grins08:35
ograare we re-rolling alternates or why did i just get a message from the iso tracker08:35
ogra(to test 20091103)08:35
pittiogra: ara is preparing the tracker for openweek08:37
ograah !08:37
ogragood, so we dont re-release :P08:38
araogra, if you go to the tracker you will see the message "we are testing the fake open week release" ;-)08:38
araogra, sorry for the spam08:38
TheMuso`hyperair: I have thought about that a bit, but its a sticky situation, since users who want to use SDL may be from kubuntu or xubuntu, both of which don't ship pulseaudio by default.09:16
hyperairTheMuso`: how about ubuntu-desktop recommending libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio then?09:17
TheMuso`hyperair: Worth considering, given there is enough disk space.09:18
hyperairmmhmm09:19
TheMuso`Hrm I just received a tracker mail re new studio isos. Whats going on with that?09:26
ograTheMuso`, openweek fake entries09:26
TheMuso`hrm seems cdimage is not updated, so sounds like a false alarm.09:26
TheMuso`oh ok09:26
ograseb128, hmm, i just installed epiphany for the first time since years, is it wanted that the toolbar is hidden by default ?09:28
seb128ogra, dunno I've not used a stock config for years09:28
seb128I guess it is if that's the default09:28
ogralooks weird09:28
ogrageez, thats so fast !09:30
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pittiwgrant: you were looking for a new-style source package -- tzdata was converted to quilt format, so we can't sync any more now09:59
pittislangasek: (^ FYI)09:59
slangasekdoh10:00
wgrantpitti: There are quite a few around now, it seems :(10:10
slangasekKeybuk: ping10:14
slangasekjames_w, jml: can you confirm that the lucid bzr branches are a go?10:35
jmlslangasek, I've had confirmation from james_w and mwhudson. I believe they are go.10:35
slangasekw00t10:35
slangasekthanks10:35
fivetwofive.h11:40
=== slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 9.10 now playing in a theater near you | Archive: open for uploads! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-karmic | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
dholbachyeeeeeeeeehaw!11:43
chrisccoulson1hey dholbach ;)11:43
dholbachhiya chrisccoulson111:43
chrisccoulson1ooh, i just saw the announcement :)11:44
Laneywhen is the first autosync run?11:46
siretart`err, didn't we used to have some pre-release toolchain updating freeze something?11:55
chrisccoulson1siretart` - that's already happened11:56
chrisccoulson1i blinked and missed it too ;)11:56
siretart`err, so no gcc 4.5 for lucid (yet)?11:57
joaopintohum, the topic is not correct, #ubuntu is not for general discussion :)12:01
TheMuso`siretart`: conservative is the word for lucid I think.12:02
iondapper-karmic is a single compound word, dapper–karmic implies a range. </nitpick> :-P12:03
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Amaranth*sigh*12:49
Amaranthyay people asking for an SRU for a bug with no known fix12:49
Amaranththat doesn't even appear to be a real bug12:49
Riddellmdeslaur: your qt update seems to be working fine on jaunty i386, I can browse the web no problem in arora12:52
chrisccoulson1Amaranth OOI, which bug is this?12:54
mdeslaurRiddell: cool. I personally tried the demo browser in qt4-demos and webkitkde.12:55
Amaranthchrisccoulson1: bug 15070213:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 150702 in metacity "alt shift tab stopped navigating windows" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15070213:00
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cwillu_at_workAmaranth, some compiz related goofiness?  that binding has caused me some grief, but I always figured it was just something I did13:47
Amaranthcwillu_at_work: I don't know what is happening, that is the point13:47
AmaranthPeople keep saying "this is completely broken, I have to set the binding myself" but on my system the only way I can break it is to manually unset the binding13:48
cwillu_at_workAmaranth, so, are you looking for unwarranted guesses as to behaviour that might trigger it?13:48
Amaranthsomething like that13:48
cwillu_at_work(I've only ever noticed it when changing switchers from the default to static or ring)13:49
AmaranthI even installed jaunty on another computer, screwed with the related settings a bit, then upgraded13:49
Amaranthstill no bug13:49
cwillu_at_workunsurprisingly, I can't duplicate it right now;  I run into it enough times to remember that I've run into it, but ya;13:53
AmaranthAll of these weird settings bugs keep adding up toward me saying "screw users who want crazy effects" and stripping out almost everything we don't use13:54
pittikirkland: hm:14:01
pitti$ kvm -m 512 -cdrom http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/8.04.3/ubuntu-8.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso14:01
pittiCURL: Error opening file: Connection time-out14:01
pittiqemu: could not open disk image http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/8.04.3/ubuntu-8.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso14:01
kirklandpitti: pick a closer/faster mirror14:01
pittikirkland: it does seem to try curl, but unsuccessfully?14:01
kirklandpitti: any URL to an ISO14:01
seb128pitti, you got internet a local speed now? ;-)14:01
seb128at14:01
seb128no need to download isos14:01
kirklandpitti: looks like you just have a slow connection to mirrors.kernel.org14:01
pittiah, nice, that works14:02
pittiseb128: just testing an SRU :)14:02
seb128;-)14:02
kirklandpitti: this is going to be a very useful way of testing ISOs, going forward :-)14:03
pittiwell, rsync is still magnitudes faster, I figure14:03
cjwatsonion: if you're going to be that picky, actually "dapper‐karmic" is a single compound word; "dapper-karmic" is "could be either a compound word or a range since we're trying to fit this into ASCII, and since you're presumably a somewhat intelligent human being you get to work it out from context". As I'm sure you well know. :-)14:07
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BsimsI have an issue, I have been bitten by Bug # 425704 affecting my capslock, but does it affect numlock as well?14:36
BsimsI have an issue, I have been bitten by Bug # 425704 in console-setup affecting my capslock, but does it affect numlock as well?14:51
=== sladen changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 9.10 now playing in a theater near you | Archive: lucid open for uploads! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-karmic | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
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ioncjwatson: For a pure-ASCII representation of a range, i’d suggest “dapper - karmic”. :-)15:09
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cjwatsonion: given the fact that we often run out of topic space, I'm not going to waste bytes15:26
cjwatsonIRC is a legacy medium in many senses, deal with it :)15:26
martianixorhi, this is ubuntu 9.04 x86_64bit on HP Pavilion dv6 laptop, I have multimedia touchkeys one of them "speaker mute" works but had no keycode, I did dumpkeys to find unused one then set a new keycode for it using setkeycode, now I no longer get the errors in dmesg15:56
martianixorI wonder what would happen after reboot, the issue is that Its color doesn't change from white to red15:56
martianixorwhile the wireless touchkey does turn to red when pressed to deactivate wireless, how can I change the behavior of speaker mute accordingly?15:57
martianixorthanks in advance15:57
martianixoram I making sense? any missing info? Oh this is 2.6.28-16-generic16:01
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martianixorI have a problem with audio, few minutes it was working greatly, then when I stopped mplayer audio stopped functioning, this is Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.21, downloaded gnome-alsamixer and found all sliders up except for pc-beep when I moved it halfway up then unmuted it, found out that when I trigger a beep I get a static like sound instead of beep16:10
ebrodermartianixor: If you're trying to get something working, use #ubuntu. If you think you've found a bug, use #ubuntu-bug. This isn't the right channel, though16:11
martianixorNot sure how to go about troubleshooting this, tried mplayer with all possible devices16:11
martianixorebroder: I'm trying to make sure what the issue is in the first place16:12
martianixorebroder: thanks, sorry if I filled the channel with garbage :-)16:13
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mathiazkees: jdstrand: mdeslaur: is there a qa-regression test for avahi?16:30
jdstrandmathiaz: yes16:30
hyperairanyone free to upload an SRU? LP #24839216:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 248392 in ia32-libs "32bit libgl search for dri at wrong place on 64bit system" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24839216:31
hyperaircauses 64-bit wined3d to segfault, among other things16:31
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mvoAmaranth: I just got a request from a translator about compiz-config-settings-manager translateion, should I point him to the compiz server? or should we open LP up for translations ?17:04
Amaranthmvo: I think upstream translation is kind of stalled17:05
Amaranththe guy running pootle or whatever they use to manage it is gone17:05
AmaranthEvery time a translator comes to ask about it they offer to have them take over running the translation efforts, anyway17:06
mvoAmaranth: hm, so maybe the easiest option is to just use LP until pootle is fixed?17:07
Amaranthseb128: (moving hear to get it out of the meeting) I know compiz starts a heck of a lot faster when I restart it in an already running session though17:07
Amaranthmvo: yeah17:07
Amaranths/hear/here/17:08
AmaranthInstead of a couple seconds of the script checking things then compiz starting compiz just starts17:09
gigabyteshello17:11
gigabytesis anybody here from the Mactel Support Team?17:11
dpmAmaranth, mvo, I've just caught the conversation on compiz-config-settings-manager translations and I'm interested. Do you think I should tell Ubuntu translators to rather translate it on LP, then? Or is there any possibility they might want to host translations on LP and we could help them on that?17:26
mvopitti: assuming that python is broken and segfaults, then apport would not be able to capture that, right? bug #467027 looks like that is happening there17:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 467027 in update-manager "Upgrade from Jaunty 9.04 to Karmic 9.10 installArchives() failed" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46702717:27
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pittimvo: eww, yes; if apport can't run, no core dumps for us :-(18:41
pittimvo: he could try to disable apport, and run a root shell with ulimit -c unlimited and then update-manager18:42
pittito collect a core dump18:42
brycepitti, heya, I don't remember if I mentioned it, but I added some logic to apport-symptom for display bugs18:44
pittibryce: oh, nice!18:44
lfaraoneHave there been major changes in the way graphics drivers work that would stop a module written for compatibility on Ubuntu 8.04 from running recompliled on 9.10? (it's a proprietary module, but the company might be interested in getting it in partner for the next LTS)18:44
brycepitti, would be nice to get that rolled out in lucid18:44
pittibryce: you didn't upload yet, apparently?18:44
brycepitti, no I assumed you were taking care of the uploads for it18:44
bryceactually I'd appreciate your review of the code as well18:45
pittibryce: sure, no problem; I'll do that right away18:45
pitticr3: posted a question to you in bug 465447; quick answer appreciated, for the sake of bryce's mental health :)18:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 465447 in checkbox "Disable checkbox from filing bugs against X in released versions of the distro" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46544718:51
cr3pitti: I'm in the montreal datacenter, so hard to look into things. however, I took a moment to look at the patch and it would need a few tweaks18:59
cr3pitti: just the package.name == '' lines should be removed18:59
debfxis the kernel supposed to adjust the brightness on fn key press?19:00
pitticr3: ah, so if the dictionary doesn't have a package name, it'll cope?19:00
pittidebfx: no, it's not19:01
pittidebfx: many keys are hardwired, the hardware itself does it; the other class just sends normal key press events, which are passed through the kernel's input system through X to gnome-power-manager19:01
riddleyHi, I'm reading https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/xorg/1:7.4+3ubuntu7 and I see bryce removed 60x11... and as far as I'm able to discern, that's the only thing that lets my non-root user have xauthority... what am I missing?19:01
pitticr3: thanks for quick review!19:01
cr3pitti: yep, there are plenty of tests without a package.name and everything works, so there's precedence for reassurance purposes :)19:01
riddleyAlso, I have a co-worker with the same version of the package (but 32 vs my 64bit) and his package has that file and his system works correctly19:02
debfxpitti: if I boot with "nomodeset" the brightness is adjusted automatically otherwise it isn't19:02
cr3pitti: this is extreme reviewing, with one foot in a cabinet and the other underneath the floor19:02
pittilol19:03
pittidebfx: right, the kernel needs to provide the interface for changing the brightness; this is unfortunately often broken with KMS, there's lots of bug reports about it already19:03
bryceriddley, hmm19:04
cr3pitti: if you give me a moment, I could create a branch... almost there19:04
bryceriddley, you've tested that putting that file in place restores it to working?19:04
riddleyI just copied it, but wanted to wait for your reply... should I test now?19:04
riddleyI know that 'xhost' doesn't list me currently19:04
gigabyteshello19:05
riddleyis there something else that should add it?19:05
gigabyteswhich component should be responsible to handle keyboard backlight? gnome-power-manager, right?19:05
riddleybryce, I looked all through gdm/x11/pam and couldn't find anything that replicated that functionality19:05
bryceriddley, did your co-worker add the 60x11-common_localhost manually?  it should not have gone out in any updates19:05
riddleybryce, but I'm not an expert...19:05
riddleybryce, dpkg -L x11-common on his machine lists it as the last file in the package. One diff: he upgraded, I installed fresh.19:06
gigabytesanybody knows?19:06
riddleybryce, how should it work?19:07
riddleyif that file is errant19:07
bryceriddley, and both you and him are on the same version of xorg?19:08
brycexorg (1:7.4+3ubuntu7)19:09
riddleybryce, we have the same version of the package, I'm 64bit and he's 32.19:09
bryce64 vs. 32 won't matter19:09
riddleywe both have the version you listed19:09
riddleyhe upgraded, I installed fresh19:09
riddleybut let's say you were correct in removing the file... how should it work?19:10
riddleywhat should add me to xhost?19:10
debfxpitti: strange thing is with nomodeset the brightness key press is sent twice19:10
riddleybryce, w/o that file are you able to open a terminal and run xclock or even xhost itself?19:14
bryceyes I can, but standby I think I see the problem19:16
riddleygroovy19:17
cr3bryce and pitti: I have reviewed your changes, merged into trunk and submitted for review for inclusion in karmic. for more details, see bug #473185.19:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 473185 in checkbox "Candidate revision checkbox_0.8.6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47318519:20
* cr3 heads out of the datacenter19:23
pittibryce: you defined a function problem_boot_fail() but aren't actually using it anywhere; is that intended? (i. e. code for future improvements?)19:32
pittibryce: (btw, please pull; I did two trivial fixes)19:32
bryceah yes that is future code19:33
* pitti commits another trivial fix19:34
brycepitti, I actually wrote up a much bigger amount of code to cover a wider range of symptoms, but decided to pare it down to just a few symptoms and add things more incrementally19:34
bryceprobably I just forgot to remove that one, but yeah it's something planned for the future19:34
bryceboot failure is a common symptom but diagnosing it properly will probably need more sophisticated logic than I'd implemented19:35
* riddley is still standing by...19:35
pittibryce: no problem to keep it there19:36
bryceriddley, right see bug 27635719:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 276357 in xorg "disable xauth for local users" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27635719:39
bryceriddley, actually I'm updating the description, give me a few more minutes and it will be more informative19:40
riddleyso as a temp solution I can grab his file and be g2g?19:41
pittibryce: seems to work nicely; it's intended to file all of them against xorg? or is that just preliminary?19:42
brycepitti, yes that is intended19:43
pittibryce: e. g. would it make sense to detect the driver, map it to a package, and file it against that19:43
pitti?19:43
brycepitti, eventually I'll implement logic to file against the appropriate video driver, but it will take additional logic... some bugs will need to go to mesa, others to xserver, others to kernel19:43
brycecurrently I have a separate script which processes bugs filed against xorg and moves them to the right package, so by having the symptoms script file to xorg, it'll take advantage of that19:44
brycepitti, fwiw in the "future code" I mentioned, I do have driver detection logic, but I realized it actually is not quite as simple as it seemed at first blush, there's several corner cases that need attended to19:46
pittibryce: so, want me to upload the current one? looks fine to me19:46
brycepitti, sure please do19:47
brycepitti, btw do you have any stats on how many people have been using apport-symptom so far?19:48
pittiI don't, sorry19:48
pittibryce: I just noticed that a lot of the devicekit-disks bugs now originate from the storage symptom19:48
pittiso it does get used19:48
pittiand for hotplug failures it's immensely valuable19:49
brycekewl19:49
riddleybryce, how should I fix my xhost problem short-term?19:49
bryceat first I thought the checkbox bugs were all coming from apport-symptom, but wasn't the case19:49
pittibryce: thanks for this; now the symptom list isn't so empty any more :)19:50
bryceriddley, just copy that 60x11-common_localhost file from your friend19:50
riddleygreat thanks19:50
bryceI'll also upload a copy to the bug report in case anyone else needs it19:52
akgranermarjo, ara 's session on ISO tracking Rocks!!!  Thanks ara!!!19:57
brycepitti, SRU for bug #276357 mentioned by riddley above is ready for review19:57
ubottuLaunchpad bug 276357 in xorg "disable xauth for local users" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27635719:57
brycebbiab (food)19:57
marjoakgraner: glad to hear it19:57
pittibryce: ok; I'm reviewing SRUs twice a day nowadays, so I'll get to it tomorrow morning; is that enough, or is it really urgent?19:57
mathiazkees: is there a page about SELinux in Ubuntu Karmic ( Mathias Gug19:58
mathiazUbuntu Developer  http://www.ubuntu.com19:58
mathiazkees: meh19:58
mathiazkees: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SELinux?19:58
keesmathiaz: yup, that's the best there is or wiki.ubuntu.com/SELinux20:01
mathiazkees: tank ya weray moutche!20:02
keeshehe20:04
jcastrocan someone moderate my UDS mail to -devel please, message needs to get quickly.20:08
pittijcastro: you mean u-d-a@?20:09
jcastro-devel will be fine I think20:09
pittiah, can't do that, sorry20:09
jcastrothanks for trying!20:10
jpdsjcastro: evand1 should be able to push it through.20:10
pittiKeybuk: FYI, if you plan to update lucid's udev soon, can you please warn me before? udev and consolekit need to be updated in lockstep (new udev needs CK 0.4, which doesn't work with current udev)20:16
nxvlKeybuk: any idea why iptraf and iputils (build1) are showing in mom?20:28
pittinxvl: mom doesn't know about the XbuildN case20:35
nxvlpitti: ooohhh20:35
nxvlthnx20:35
mathiazkees: there is a thread on the sssd-devel mailing about building sssd with selinux - https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/sssd-devel/2009-November/001232.html21:03
mathiazkees: the question is whether the administration tools could be linked against selinux and still be used in the default Ubuntu install21:04
keesmathiaz: not sure what sssd is, but Ubuntu has modern SELinux tools.  it should all Just Work for the most part21:07
mathiazkees: is there a way to perform runtime SELinux detection?21:08
mathiazkees: https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/sssd-devel/2009-November/001236.html21:08
mathiazkees: This^^ is upstream last reply21:09
keesmathiaz: yes, libselinux provides that ability.  there is no harm linking against libselinux (it's in main, lots of stuff links, etc)21:10
mathiazkees: Can I CC you on my reply?21:11
keesmathiaz: sure21:12
cjwatsonpitti: Keybuk's on holiday this week21:12
pitticjwatson: ah, thanks (much deserved)21:12
pittiI wonder why he left IRC running21:12
smoserhttps://launchpad.net/~smoser/+archive/ppa/+build/1318926 says "Start 2009-11-05 (2505)" is that right ? is that expected to "start" building in 2 days ?21:13
Keybukbecause I use IRC for talking to friends as well as for work ;-)21:13
cjwatsonjcastro: moderated21:14
jdongKeybuk: that doesn't suck you right back into work while vacationing?21:14
jcastrocjwatson, thanks!21:15
TheMuso`/c/c21:15
Keybukjdong: no ;)21:15
jdonglol, your self-control is clearly superior!21:16
Keybukjdong: I'm on sofa watching DS9's "O'Brien must suffer" episode from the 6th season :p21:19
jdongKeybuk: so if I asked why my bootup is thrashing... *ducks*21:19
Keybukjdong: then I would cheerfully ignore you <g>21:20
jdong:) good man! Enjoy your vacation!21:21
MsMacoKeybuk: if you're on vacation, why are you on irc? (people always ask me this when i'm on vacation and ive yet to come up with a decent answer)21:23
KeybukMsMaco: ah, I believe we've reached the middle of this conversation21:25
jdongKeybuk: wait if you're on vacation.... why doesn't MsMaco have an IRC bouncer?21:25
jdonghaha ok no more clowning around21:25
jdongback to homework!21:25
ebroderUgh. Don't say that - it just reminds me that I should be working on homework too21:25
MsMaco*confused*21:26
jdongebroder: haha. I catch myself doing this instead of homework way too often ;-)21:26
jdong*heads over to W20 reading room....*21:26
MsMacoubuntu is waaaaaaayyyyyyyy better than homework21:26
jdongMsMaco: but it doesn't help in passing classes21:26
MsMacounfortunately :(21:26
Keybukpassing classes is overrated21:27
KeybukI failed all of mine21:27
Keybukthen never went to university21:27
cjwatsonnot that I would necessarily recommend this approach to impressionable youngsters ... but getting involved with free software in my third year was a lot more useful to my career than the classes I missed due to being up all night hacking21:27
MsMaco:)21:29
MsMacoim pretty sure id be a MUCH worse programmer if the only code i ever wrote was my homework21:29
ebroderHa!21:29
pittiKeybuk, cjwatson: http://xkcd.com/519/ ? :-)21:29
pittiebroder: ^ I meant21:29
MsMacomeanwhile today one of my classmates realized (as i was chatting with the OS prof about filesystems) that "wait...you do this *outside* of class too?? WHY?"21:30
sebnerpitti: perl?? Oh my .. ;-P21:30
mathiazpitti: wait - are you also suggesting that in your *own* experience classes are overrated?21:31
pittimathiaz: nah, I just remembered that xkcd comic :)21:31
MsMacohaha just wait til dt ch en notices this conversation. he's always getting on me to do my homework21:32
TheMuso`cjwatson: I was in a somewhat similar position, although free software only partially helped in only one module of the music degree I was completing. :)21:32
pittiactually, my university time/classes haven't helped me at all career-wise21:32
pittibut they certainly did for learning how to quickly get into technical things, doing political work, learning how our world works (in a scientific sense), and generally having lots of fun, too21:32
pittiI'd do it again if I had the choice21:33
sebnerpitti: no wonder .. isn't it that 90% all for university time is not useful for realworld jobs? Anyways, you need the diplom21:33
pittisebner: right, but that's not the point of an uni in the first place, so that's okay IMHO21:33
MsMacopitti: fun? there was fun in your classes? i feel gyped!21:33
sebnerheh21:33
pittiMsMaco: well, more of it outside, but yes, discussing scientific things can be fun, too21:33
ebroderI get a lot out of a very small number of classes I've taken here. And almost nothing out of most of them. But I think I'd have a hard time doing some of the cool stuff I can do here outside of my classes if I didn't go to school21:34
pittifor my own very personal definition anyway :)21:34
MsMacoi keep starting out classes hating them and thinking their useless then at the end going "OH! so THAT's how that works! COOL!!!"21:34
MsMacos/their/they're/21:34
=== TheMuso` is now known as TheMuso
pittialso, I really enjoyed maths at uni, to understand how algebra/arithmetics REALLY work21:34
* MsMaco shudders21:34
MsMacoi hate math21:35
pittisure, I don't need to be able to proof that 2+2=4 for Ubuntu work, but I find it interesting anyway :)21:35
* TheMuso has never enjoyed maths, however I do accept its a necessary part of life. If I need to do any mathamatics for computre related stuff and I don't really know it, I will learn it.21:35
* Keybuk likes math21:36
MsMacoim just pretty resolved to the fact that i'll never write a physics engine. thus, dont need math :)21:36
* pitti goes back to fixing those #*($#($ LVM udev rules and just notices that this is not in anyway less complicated than maths..21:36
Keybukpitti: LVM is closer to dark magic than math21:37
MsMacooh you uk/au people are going to try to make me start pluralizing "math" arent you?21:37
ebroderYes, and then we're going to start talking about ceiling cat :-P21:37
ebroder(Oh wait - "maths" is a commonwealth thing? I didn't realize that)21:38
slangasekmathi21:38
pittiMsMaco: hm, AFAIR that's how I learned it at school; so "I like math" is actually correct?21:38
MsMacopitti: in the US, "math" is the common way21:38
slangasekpitti: it's correct in the US, and incorrect in England :)21:38
MsMacoim in the US21:38
cjwatsonpitti: xkcd> yes :)21:38
Keybukslangasek: maths is incorrect in any country21:38
pittiI think they taught me British English, although nowadays I speak a wild mixture of US/GB/Denglish21:38
slangasekheh21:38
Keybukif it's an abbreviation for mathematics, it should be MATH'S :p21:38
MsMacoDenglish???21:39
slangasekKeybuk: are you a grocer21:39
james_wit's easy, just remember that it is the opposite of the usual use of sport/sports21:39
MsMacoi assume D = Deutsch?21:39
pittiMsMaco: "Deutsch/English" wild mix (our way to say that in Germany)21:39
Keybukslangasek: the apostrophe indicates missing letters21:39
sebnerpitti: school english is Oxford English in D/AUT :)21:39
Keybuksince you can't have one mathematic, the "s" isn't pluralising, so if you keep the "s" but miss out the "ematic" - you need the apostrophe because you missed them out <g>21:40
MsMacopitti: given that one derives from the other, i cant imagine it looks *that* screwed up to mix them. i mean, "address"/"adress" one looks like a typo of the other21:40
pittisebner: yeah, but that was 11 years and umphteen conferences ago :)21:40
sebnerKeybuk: you are a smart one :D btw, thx for your cool mail help =)21:40
slangasekKeybuk: maybe you can't have one mathematic, but let me show you my new counting theor21:40
slangaseky21:40
Keybukslangasek: you should me yours, I'll show you mine21:41
sebnerpitti: heh, wondering why they still stick to oxford one. It's not really spoken, sounds snobistig (Denglisch!1!1!1!) I've heard21:41
pittislangasek: oh, you replaced the Peano axioms by the Langasek axioms?21:41
slangasekpitti: and let me tell you, they're AWESOME21:41
sebnerpitti: uhuhu, just learned about the Peano axioms 2 weeks ago :D21:42
pittislangasek: can't wait to see them!21:42
mathiazslangasek: like: 9.10 + 1 = 10.04?21:42
pittisebner: ah, so you can prove commutativity of + now? isn't it great? :-)21:43
pitti(and so absolutely useless, too..)21:43
sebnerpitti: heh, don't worry, we've already passed the complex numbers :D21:43
pittislangasek: I bet it's like "10 bugs (reported) - 1 bug (fixed) == 15 bugs (reported)"21:43
MsMacosounds about right21:44
* pitti wonders how to fix the lvm2 rules without becoming TIL and having to merge the package21:45
MsMacoTIL?21:45
pitti"touched it last"21:45
MsMacooh21:45
pittiTIL -> poor soul who has to do the merge21:46
geserpitti: factorise a RSA key, so you can fake a signature and let somebody else become TIL21:46
pittigeser: heh, speaking of math(s?)..21:47
Keybukpitti: you can add fake people to ubuntu-core-dev, upload, then delete them ;)21:48
pittiin all seriousness, a merge is long overdue, but I'm afraid of breaking kees' setup if I did21:49
ajmitchsurely there's some poor sucker who understands it?21:49
pittiand if I do, he'd upload his frozen-bubble hack and I can never ever win again21:49
=== mdz` is now known as mdz
MsMaco"if $user == pitti ; lose();" ??21:49
MsMacoummm s/;//21:50
pittiMsMaco: no, he added a key which sends a penalty bubble to the opponent21:50
MsMacomangle that mentally into non-stupid syntax21:50
pittiand then he kept banging on that21:50
MsMacowait you can play frozen bubble as multi-player?21:50
gesersure, you didn't know?21:50
pittiMsMaco: ...21:51
MsMacono! i always play it just-me, like Snood21:51
pittiMsMaco: if you want to stay productive: No, you can't :)21:51
MsMacoapparently i need to play games more often than once every...year21:51
pittibut beware, it's brutal21:52
sebnerpitti: aren't we pre-alpha so breaking is not allowed but welcomed? ;D21:52
pittimy wife is always close to killing me :)21:52
* sebner is wondering if there will be a ubuntu-dev nexuiz challange *cough cough*21:52
gesersebner: propose a gaming session for the next UDS to find out which game stops productivity most :)21:53
MsMacogeser: wouldnt the most productivity-stopping game then be the most productive game in that situation/21:54
apacheloggerjcastro: btw, I think it would make sense to CC kubuntu-devel in the next spring registration mail, to make sure them poor blue headed stepchilds actually see it ;)21:54
sebnergeser: nahh, this is "deep investigation to find and eliminate bugs in the universe" :P :P :P21:54
MsMacoapachelogger: spring registration email?21:54
jcastroapachelogger, sure!21:54
sebnerhihu apachelogger :D21:54
* sebner knuddelt apachelogger 21:54
apacheloggers/spring/sprint21:54
apacheloggerjcastro: thx :)21:55
apacheloggeryo sebner21:55
bryceMsMaco, all springs and pulleys need to be properly registered in order to get things lifted into place properly21:55
Keybukpitti: I was just thinking21:55
Keybukif you created a GPG key with Kees Cook as the name21:55
Keybuksigned it with your key, then added it to LP21:55
Keybukthen set Changed-By to Kees Cook too21:55
Keybukand uploaded21:55
MsMacoyou're evil21:55
Keybukwould anyone know the difference? :p21:55
KeybukMoM certainly wouldn't21:55
slangasekheh21:56
pittiKeybuk: well, in terms of MoM it would be enough to just set it in the changelog21:56
pitti(I'd still count as sponsor, of course)21:56
Keybukpitti: MoM also records the GPG signature name and shows that21:56
wgrantLP is fortunately smarter than that, and would email out the signer's LP name and email address, and also link to their profile page.21:57
ajmitchif he's going to that much trouble, he may as well bribe a LOSA to avoid any unnecessary mail about it21:58
* sebner sees a lot of dark energy waving through this channel :P21:58
* kees reads backscroll to see how he's being trolled21:58
wgrantajmitch: Well, you don't need a LOSA for that if you know what you're doing.21:58
sebneroh noez! Hide everybody .. kees is here!21:59
keesheh21:59
* apachelogger blinks22:00
keesKeybuk: heh, yay all merges are assigned to me!  ;)22:00
brycekees, ok thanks22:00
keesbryce: noooo22:00
ajmitchkees: you're a hero22:01
slangasekkees: it's ok, I'll do some merges for you and you can owe me beer22:01
keeswell, as Keybuk demonstrated, I'll only take the merges where I have been impersonated in MoM.  ;)22:02
* kees is waiting for the first round of auto-sync to happen before diving into MoM22:03
* slangasek is waiting for confirmation that the LP tool is grabbing testing by default before doing the first round of auto-sync22:03
geserslangasek: why do I get the feeling that the syncing from testing is so badly prepared when the decision was already made during the last UDS?22:06
wgrantslangasek: Do you know if it has been verified how the autosyncer will deal with v3 sources while they are unsupported?22:07
slangasekgeser: I don't know, but the launchpad unstable->testing change is scheduled to land today22:07
slangasekwgrant: I don't believe it has22:08
slangasekwgrant: we can provisionally blacklist as necessary to work around any problems, though22:08
wgrantThe testing default change has landed.22:08
=== Guest83672 is now known as functionofxy
* wgrant tries to sync v3 packages with a non-v3-supporting LP.22:09
slangasekwgrant: landed, but not rolled out on prod22:09
wgrantRight.22:09
ajmitchwgrant: hoping that it doesn't cause the whole sync to grind to a halt?22:09
wgrantajmitch: We'll see soon.22:09
=== Hellow_ is now known as Hellow
BsimsI have been bitten by Bug #425704 in console-setup... can this bug also affect numlock led?22:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 425704 in console-setup "[karmic server] Capslock don't turn on LED" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42570422:11
cjwatsonBsims: it shouldn't affect numlock, and doesn't for me22:13
functionofxydoes anyone know about e4defrag implementation in karmic?22:14
cjwatsonnor scroll lock22:14
Bsimscjwatson: wierd, it affects all three for me22:14
Bsimscjwatson: It could be the keyboard led burned out but the timing is very odd if thats the case22:14
jdstrandmdeslaur: fyi, apparmor_2.3.1+1403-0ubuntu27.1 uploaded with your and my SRU updates22:15
cjwatsonBsims: then you have a different bug, not 425704, as far as I can see22:15
Bsimscjwatson: Ok, any clue as to what package I should file the bug against? Kernel, or console setup22:16
cjwatsonI'd start with the kernel22:16
Keybukslangasek: ok, I give up22:17
Bsimscjwatson: Ok, its just that apport takes eons to run...22:17
KeybukI've been googling for the past fifteen minutes22:17
Keybukand I cannot find *any* documentation for the new dpkg source format22:17
wgrantKeybuk: The dpkg-source manpage is helpful22:17
wgrantBut it's not wonderful.22:17
mdeslaurjdstrand: cool! thanks22:18
functionofxyany ext4 or e4defrag experts around? I'm looking for documentation on the defrag implementation.22:18
slangasekKeybuk: don't look at me, I've not been following v3 at all22:18
Bsimscjwatson: thanks for the heads up...22:19
* Bsims grumbles a note that system bell is now blacklisted would have saved me a few days of googlemancy22:20
slangasekKeybuk: is bug #453579 still reproducible for you after your hardware shuffle?22:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 453579 in ubuntu-release-notes "corruption of large files reported with linux 2.6.31-14.46 on ext4" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45357922:20
Keybukslangasek: ask me when I'm at work ;)22:20
slangasekmeh22:20
Bsimscjwatson: how long does it usually take apport-bug to finish doing its thing so I can file the bug?22:20
slangasekwell, in the meantime the bug report is a magnet for all kinds of random followups22:20
Keybukslangasek: I haven't *used* a computer hard enough since thursday to tell22:21
slangasekheh22:21
slangasekI thought you were hardware swapping prior to that :)22:21
cjwatsonBsims: dunno22:22
Bsimscjwatson: heh I'd have thought I'd get something after 5 minutes22:22
cjwatsonsorry, I don't know22:22
Bsimscjwatson: it starts a gui doesn't it... or it did when ran under X... I'm in a ssh tunnel22:23
* Bsims grins22:23
wgrantslangasek: An autosync will crash immediately if it attempts to process a v3 package. The fix for that crash is simple, and would result in the syncs just being rejected later instead, but it's probably too late :(22:44
wgrantSo you'll need to watch and blacklits.22:45
slangasekwgrant: understood, thanks for checking.  I don't expect any of these packages to be in testing by the time we do the first autosync, anyway22:48
wgrantslangasek: True.22:49
slangasekKeybuk: heh, is MoM still generating a changelog that says "merge from debian unstable"?22:51
Keybukany merge generated before thursday will have that22:51
Keybukand will be from unstable22:51
Keybukonly new merges will be from testing22:51
slangasekok22:51
slangasekdon't suppose the capitalization of "Debian" is fixed? :)22:52
Keybukno22:52
Keybukthough I think it's screwed anyway22:52
KeybukMoM can't process v3 source packages :p22:52
Keybukhave disabled it and locked it out, since it's not doing any good23:00
Keybukwill look into it at UDS I guess23:00
Keybuk(if someone else wants to fix it in the meantime ...)23:02

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