[00:00] its internationa national emergency pl help me [00:03] gp: This isn't a support channel, please use #ubuntu-server or #ubuntu [00:03] hum, Giant Panda what is that :) ? [00:08] Does anybody know if it's possible to get the list of package versions I've uploaded through launchpadlib? (i.e. the equivalent of https://launchpad.net/~broder/+related-software) [00:08] ebroder: No. [00:10] wgrant: As in it's not possible? [00:11] ebroder: That's right. You can list uploads in a particular PPA, but that's about as close as you can get at this time. === omani2 is now known as omani === eboysr is now known as eboyjr [01:48] Hello, a regression was reported in LP where a qtiplot (an important science program) was rendered unusable (bug #471238). [01:48] Launchpad bug 471238 in qtiplot "Program crashes when doing any plot or fit" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/471238 [01:49] I've confirmed the bug, wrote a patch that fixes it, and tested the patch to be working. As per the SRU proceedure on the wiki, I'm posting here to get some attention to it [01:50] thank you! [01:59] showard: looking at it right now [02:00] showard: you can feel free to take comment #3 and edit the original description of the bug with that [02:00] showard: change changelog section from karmic --> karmic-proposed [02:02] showard: well done on that bug report, thanks for looking at that bug [02:14] jdong: thanks, got it targeting karmic-proposed [02:31] jdong: thanks! One last thing, I can't upload - is there anything else I should do (subscribe motu-sponsor?) or is it out of my hands now? [02:38] showard: you should definietly subscribe universe sponsors [02:38] I'm unfortunately not in a location where I can sponsor the upload at the moment [02:39] so if you can "kidnap" a MOTU in a more timely manner [02:39] I should point out that LaserJock just spoke and even in an manner implying he's interested about the bug ;-) [02:40] :-) [02:42] ha thanks - LaserJock - mind if I take you to the back room and hold you for ransom (or at least sponsoring ;-) ) [02:42] Hmm...I'm intrigued by this ransom thing. I should try it some time [02:43] (And jdong is even in the same room as me right now!) [02:46] ebroder: haven't you abused that once already tonight?? [02:46] jdong: Totally quentin's fault, not mine! [02:52] jdong: the previous version is a build1 should the SRU be a ubuntu0.1? [02:53] LaserJock: it's a corner case I haven't much dealt with before. 0.1 is a bit better, yeah [03:08] anyone else seeing wiki.ubuntu.com breakage? [03:08] Yep [03:08] indeed [03:11] wow [03:11] yeah, its pretty broken, I'd say [03:14] lost my edits :-( [03:14] == [03:14] showard: btw, yes I'm working on it :-) [03:15] ebroder: so you've not been adversely affected by jdong's madness? [03:15] ajmitch: Would I be able to tell? [03:15] true... [03:17] laserjock: thanks - by the way, i'm a laser jock too [03:17] showard: awesome [05:16] Well looks like karmic broke suspend/resume.. worked in 9.04 but in .10 it does not work at all [05:16] << on the asus n50v [05:17] #ubuntu-bugs for bug reports ;) === nxvl_ is now known as nxvl [06:30] I find 9.10 sluggish and slow? 9.04 runs great but 9.10 is slow...anyone else notice the slowness? [07:19] good morning [07:25] c [07:40] does anyone get sreadahead terminating prematurely during bootup? [07:47] who did the new tux boot screen. dos? [07:47] oops, wrong channel === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie [08:03] is there a k/ubuntu updates changelog somewhere? where I can see which packages were updated and when? [08:03] amik: http://lists.ubuntu.com/listinfo/-changes (eg. karmic-changes) [08:05] "The requested URL /listinfo/karmic-changes was not found on this server." - or did I mistype something? [08:07] wgrant: http://lists.ubuntu.com/listinfo/karmic-changes gives me a 404, is tha the link? [08:07] https://lists.ubuntu.com/karmic-changes should redirect you to the right page [08:08] ah, a mailman was missing [08:09] dholbach: translation? :-) [08:10] amik: http://feeds.ubuntu-nl.org/UbuntuChanges === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [08:14] thanks debfx [08:21] Godo morning [08:23] TheMuso`: ping (re sdl). could we have libsdl1.2debian depend on libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio | blah blah instead of libsdl1.2debian-alsa | blah blah? [08:23] TheMuso`: the alsa-pulseaudio plugin sucks badly with sdl using apps [08:24] mainly due to the -alsa plugin being installed automatically instead of -pulseaudio [08:32] ScottK: thanks for pointing out! [08:32] free: please have a look at bug 466028 [08:32] Launchpad bug 466028 in landscape-client "landscape-sysinfo crashed with ImportError in ()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/466028 [08:35] * ogra grins [08:35] are we re-rolling alternates or why did i just get a message from the iso tracker [08:35] (to test 20091103) [08:37] ogra: ara is preparing the tracker for openweek [08:37] ah ! [08:38] good, so we dont re-release :P [08:38] ogra, if you go to the tracker you will see the message "we are testing the fake open week release" ;-) [08:38] ogra, sorry for the spam [09:16] hyperair: I have thought about that a bit, but its a sticky situation, since users who want to use SDL may be from kubuntu or xubuntu, both of which don't ship pulseaudio by default. [09:17] TheMuso`: how about ubuntu-desktop recommending libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio then? [09:18] hyperair: Worth considering, given there is enough disk space. [09:19] mmhmm [09:26] Hrm I just received a tracker mail re new studio isos. Whats going on with that? [09:26] TheMuso`, openweek fake entries [09:26] hrm seems cdimage is not updated, so sounds like a false alarm. [09:26] oh ok [09:28] seb128, hmm, i just installed epiphany for the first time since years, is it wanted that the toolbar is hidden by default ? [09:28] ogra, dunno I've not used a stock config for years [09:28] I guess it is if that's the default [09:28] looks weird [09:30] geez, thats so fast ! === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [09:59] wgrant: you were looking for a new-style source package -- tzdata was converted to quilt format, so we can't sync any more now [09:59] slangasek: (^ FYI) [10:00] doh [10:10] pitti: There are quite a few around now, it seems :( [10:14] Keybuk: ping [10:35] james_w, jml: can you confirm that the lucid bzr branches are a go? [10:35] slangasek, I've had confirmation from james_w and mwhudson. I believe they are go. [10:35] w00t [10:35] thanks [11:40] .h === slangasek changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 9.10 now playing in a theater near you | Archive: open for uploads! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-karmic | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs [11:43] yeeeeeeeeehaw! [11:43] hey dholbach ;) [11:43] hiya chrisccoulson1 [11:44] ooh, i just saw the announcement :) [11:46] when is the first autosync run? [11:55] err, didn't we used to have some pre-release toolchain updating freeze something? [11:56] siretart` - that's already happened [11:56] i blinked and missed it too ;) [11:57] err, so no gcc 4.5 for lucid (yet)? [12:01] hum, the topic is not correct, #ubuntu is not for general discussion :) [12:02] siretart`: conservative is the word for lucid I think. [12:03] dapper-karmic is a single compound word, dapper–karmic implies a range. :-P === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [12:49] *sigh* [12:49] yay people asking for an SRU for a bug with no known fix [12:49] that doesn't even appear to be a real bug [12:52] mdeslaur: your qt update seems to be working fine on jaunty i386, I can browse the web no problem in arora [12:54] Amaranth OOI, which bug is this? [12:55] Riddell: cool. I personally tried the demo browser in qt4-demos and webkitkde. [13:00] chrisccoulson1: bug 150702 [13:00] Launchpad bug 150702 in metacity "alt shift tab stopped navigating windows" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150702 === dyfet` is now known as dyfet === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow === seb128_ is now known as seb128 [13:47] Amaranth, some compiz related goofiness? that binding has caused me some grief, but I always figured it was just something I did [13:47] cwillu_at_work: I don't know what is happening, that is the point [13:48] People keep saying "this is completely broken, I have to set the binding myself" but on my system the only way I can break it is to manually unset the binding [13:48] Amaranth, so, are you looking for unwarranted guesses as to behaviour that might trigger it? [13:48] something like that [13:49] (I've only ever noticed it when changing switchers from the default to static or ring) [13:49] I even installed jaunty on another computer, screwed with the related settings a bit, then upgraded [13:49] still no bug [13:53] unsurprisingly, I can't duplicate it right now; I run into it enough times to remember that I've run into it, but ya; [13:54] All of these weird settings bugs keep adding up toward me saying "screw users who want crazy effects" and stripping out almost everything we don't use [14:01] kirkland: hm: [14:01] $ kvm -m 512 -cdrom http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/8.04.3/ubuntu-8.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso [14:01] CURL: Error opening file: Connection time-out [14:01] qemu: could not open disk image http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/8.04.3/ubuntu-8.04.3-desktop-amd64.iso [14:01] pitti: pick a closer/faster mirror [14:01] kirkland: it does seem to try curl, but unsuccessfully? [14:01] pitti: any URL to an ISO [14:01] pitti, you got internet a local speed now? ;-) [14:01] at [14:01] no need to download isos [14:01] pitti: looks like you just have a slow connection to mirrors.kernel.org [14:02] ah, nice, that works [14:02] seb128: just testing an SRU :) [14:02] ;-) [14:03] pitti: this is going to be a very useful way of testing ISOs, going forward :-) [14:03] well, rsync is still magnitudes faster, I figure [14:07] ion: if you're going to be that picky, actually "dapper‐karmic" is a single compound word; "dapper-karmic" is "could be either a compound word or a range since we're trying to fit this into ASCII, and since you're presumably a somewhat intelligent human being you get to work it out from context". As I'm sure you well know. :-) === marjomercado is now known as marjo [14:36] I have an issue, I have been bitten by Bug # 425704 affecting my capslock, but does it affect numlock as well? [14:51] I have an issue, I have been bitten by Bug # 425704 in console-setup affecting my capslock, but does it affect numlock as well? === sladen changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 9.10 now playing in a theater near you | Archive: lucid open for uploads! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-karmic | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs === jamie is now known as Guest68832 === thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak [15:09] cjwatson: For a pure-ASCII representation of a range, i’d suggest “dapper - karmic”. :-) === statik` is now known as statik [15:26] ion: given the fact that we often run out of topic space, I'm not going to waste bytes [15:26] IRC is a legacy medium in many senses, deal with it :) [15:56] hi, this is ubuntu 9.04 x86_64bit on HP Pavilion dv6 laptop, I have multimedia touchkeys one of them "speaker mute" works but had no keycode, I did dumpkeys to find unused one then set a new keycode for it using setkeycode, now I no longer get the errors in dmesg [15:56] I wonder what would happen after reboot, the issue is that Its color doesn't change from white to red [15:57] while the wireless touchkey does turn to red when pressed to deactivate wireless, how can I change the behavior of speaker mute accordingly? [15:57] thanks in advance [16:01] am I making sense? any missing info? Oh this is 2.6.28-16-generic === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [16:10] I have a problem with audio, few minutes it was working greatly, then when I stopped mplayer audio stopped functioning, this is Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.21, downloaded gnome-alsamixer and found all sliders up except for pc-beep when I moved it halfway up then unmuted it, found out that when I trigger a beep I get a static like sound instead of beep [16:11] martianixor: If you're trying to get something working, use #ubuntu. If you think you've found a bug, use #ubuntu-bug. This isn't the right channel, though [16:11] Not sure how to go about troubleshooting this, tried mplayer with all possible devices [16:12] ebroder: I'm trying to make sure what the issue is in the first place [16:13] ebroder: thanks, sorry if I filled the channel with garbage :-) === jdong_ is now known as jdong [16:30] kees: jdstrand: mdeslaur: is there a qa-regression test for avahi? [16:30] mathiaz: yes [16:31] anyone free to upload an SRU? LP #248392 [16:31] Launchpad bug 248392 in ia32-libs "32bit libgl search for dri at wrong place on 64bit system" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248392 [16:31] causes 64-bit wined3d to segfault, among other things === seb128_ is now known as seb128 === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|errand === asac_ is now known as asac [17:04] Amaranth: I just got a request from a translator about compiz-config-settings-manager translateion, should I point him to the compiz server? or should we open LP up for translations ? [17:05] mvo: I think upstream translation is kind of stalled [17:05] the guy running pootle or whatever they use to manage it is gone [17:06] Every time a translator comes to ask about it they offer to have them take over running the translation efforts, anyway [17:07] Amaranth: hm, so maybe the easiest option is to just use LP until pootle is fixed? [17:07] seb128: (moving hear to get it out of the meeting) I know compiz starts a heck of a lot faster when I restart it in an already running session though [17:07] mvo: yeah [17:08] s/hear/here/ [17:09] Instead of a couple seconds of the script checking things then compiz starting compiz just starts [17:11] hello [17:11] is anybody here from the Mactel Support Team? [17:26] Amaranth, mvo, I've just caught the conversation on compiz-config-settings-manager translations and I'm interested. Do you think I should tell Ubuntu translators to rather translate it on LP, then? Or is there any possibility they might want to host translations on LP and we could help them on that? [17:27] pitti: assuming that python is broken and segfaults, then apport would not be able to capture that, right? bug #467027 looks like that is happening there [17:27] Launchpad bug 467027 in update-manager "Upgrade from Jaunty 9.04 to Karmic 9.10 installArchives() failed" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/467027 === MacSlow|errand is now known as MacSlow === fenris__ is now known as ejat === beuno-lunch is now known as beuno === dpm is now known as dpm-afk [18:41] mvo: eww, yes; if apport can't run, no core dumps for us :-( [18:42] mvo: he could try to disable apport, and run a root shell with ulimit -c unlimited and then update-manager [18:42] to collect a core dump [18:44] pitti, heya, I don't remember if I mentioned it, but I added some logic to apport-symptom for display bugs [18:44] bryce: oh, nice! [18:44] Have there been major changes in the way graphics drivers work that would stop a module written for compatibility on Ubuntu 8.04 from running recompliled on 9.10? (it's a proprietary module, but the company might be interested in getting it in partner for the next LTS) [18:44] pitti, would be nice to get that rolled out in lucid [18:44] bryce: you didn't upload yet, apparently? [18:44] pitti, no I assumed you were taking care of the uploads for it [18:45] actually I'd appreciate your review of the code as well [18:45] bryce: sure, no problem; I'll do that right away [18:51] cr3: posted a question to you in bug 465447; quick answer appreciated, for the sake of bryce's mental health :) [18:51] Launchpad bug 465447 in checkbox "Disable checkbox from filing bugs against X in released versions of the distro" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/465447 [18:59] pitti: I'm in the montreal datacenter, so hard to look into things. however, I took a moment to look at the patch and it would need a few tweaks [18:59] pitti: just the package.name == '' lines should be removed [19:00] is the kernel supposed to adjust the brightness on fn key press? [19:00] cr3: ah, so if the dictionary doesn't have a package name, it'll cope? [19:01] debfx: no, it's not [19:01] debfx: many keys are hardwired, the hardware itself does it; the other class just sends normal key press events, which are passed through the kernel's input system through X to gnome-power-manager [19:01] Hi, I'm reading https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/xorg/1:7.4+3ubuntu7 and I see bryce removed 60x11... and as far as I'm able to discern, that's the only thing that lets my non-root user have xauthority... what am I missing? [19:01] cr3: thanks for quick review! [19:01] pitti: yep, there are plenty of tests without a package.name and everything works, so there's precedence for reassurance purposes :) [19:02] Also, I have a co-worker with the same version of the package (but 32 vs my 64bit) and his package has that file and his system works correctly [19:02] pitti: if I boot with "nomodeset" the brightness is adjusted automatically otherwise it isn't [19:02] pitti: this is extreme reviewing, with one foot in a cabinet and the other underneath the floor [19:03] lol [19:03] debfx: right, the kernel needs to provide the interface for changing the brightness; this is unfortunately often broken with KMS, there's lots of bug reports about it already [19:04] riddley, hmm [19:04] pitti: if you give me a moment, I could create a branch... almost there [19:04] riddley, you've tested that putting that file in place restores it to working? [19:04] I just copied it, but wanted to wait for your reply... should I test now? [19:04] I know that 'xhost' doesn't list me currently [19:05] hello [19:05] is there something else that should add it? [19:05] which component should be responsible to handle keyboard backlight? gnome-power-manager, right? [19:05] bryce, I looked all through gdm/x11/pam and couldn't find anything that replicated that functionality [19:05] riddley, did your co-worker add the 60x11-common_localhost manually? it should not have gone out in any updates [19:05] bryce, but I'm not an expert... [19:06] bryce, dpkg -L x11-common on his machine lists it as the last file in the package. One diff: he upgraded, I installed fresh. [19:06] anybody knows? [19:07] bryce, how should it work? [19:07] if that file is errant [19:08] riddley, and both you and him are on the same version of xorg? [19:09] xorg (1:7.4+3ubuntu7) [19:09] bryce, we have the same version of the package, I'm 64bit and he's 32. [19:09] 64 vs. 32 won't matter [19:09] we both have the version you listed [19:09] he upgraded, I installed fresh [19:10] but let's say you were correct in removing the file... how should it work? [19:10] what should add me to xhost? [19:10] pitti: strange thing is with nomodeset the brightness key press is sent twice [19:14] bryce, w/o that file are you able to open a terminal and run xclock or even xhost itself? [19:16] yes I can, but standby I think I see the problem [19:17] groovy [19:20] bryce and pitti: I have reviewed your changes, merged into trunk and submitted for review for inclusion in karmic. for more details, see bug #473185. [19:20] Launchpad bug 473185 in checkbox "Candidate revision checkbox_0.8.6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/473185 [19:23] * cr3 heads out of the datacenter [19:32] bryce: you defined a function problem_boot_fail() but aren't actually using it anywhere; is that intended? (i. e. code for future improvements?) [19:32] bryce: (btw, please pull; I did two trivial fixes) [19:33] ah yes that is future code [19:34] * pitti commits another trivial fix [19:34] pitti, I actually wrote up a much bigger amount of code to cover a wider range of symptoms, but decided to pare it down to just a few symptoms and add things more incrementally [19:34] probably I just forgot to remove that one, but yeah it's something planned for the future [19:35] boot failure is a common symptom but diagnosing it properly will probably need more sophisticated logic than I'd implemented [19:35] * riddley is still standing by... [19:36] bryce: no problem to keep it there [19:38] riddley, right see bug 276357 [19:39] Launchpad bug 276357 in xorg "disable xauth for local users" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276357 [19:40] riddley, actually I'm updating the description, give me a few more minutes and it will be more informative [19:41] so as a temp solution I can grab his file and be g2g? [19:42] bryce: seems to work nicely; it's intended to file all of them against xorg? or is that just preliminary? [19:43] pitti, yes that is intended [19:43] bryce: e. g. would it make sense to detect the driver, map it to a package, and file it against that [19:43] ? [19:43] pitti, eventually I'll implement logic to file against the appropriate video driver, but it will take additional logic... some bugs will need to go to mesa, others to xserver, others to kernel [19:44] currently I have a separate script which processes bugs filed against xorg and moves them to the right package, so by having the symptoms script file to xorg, it'll take advantage of that [19:46] pitti, fwiw in the "future code" I mentioned, I do have driver detection logic, but I realized it actually is not quite as simple as it seemed at first blush, there's several corner cases that need attended to [19:46] bryce: so, want me to upload the current one? looks fine to me [19:47] pitti, sure please do [19:48] pitti, btw do you have any stats on how many people have been using apport-symptom so far? [19:48] I don't, sorry [19:48] bryce: I just noticed that a lot of the devicekit-disks bugs now originate from the storage symptom [19:48] so it does get used [19:49] and for hotplug failures it's immensely valuable [19:49] kewl [19:49] bryce, how should I fix my xhost problem short-term? [19:49] at first I thought the checkbox bugs were all coming from apport-symptom, but wasn't the case [19:50] bryce: thanks for this; now the symptom list isn't so empty any more :) [19:50] riddley, just copy that 60x11-common_localhost file from your friend [19:50] great thanks [19:52] I'll also upload a copy to the bug report in case anyone else needs it [19:57] marjo, ara 's session on ISO tracking Rocks!!! Thanks ara!!! [19:57] pitti, SRU for bug #276357 mentioned by riddley above is ready for review [19:57] Launchpad bug 276357 in xorg "disable xauth for local users" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276357 [19:57] bbiab (food) [19:57] akgraner: glad to hear it [19:57] bryce: ok; I'm reviewing SRUs twice a day nowadays, so I'll get to it tomorrow morning; is that enough, or is it really urgent? [19:58] kees: is there a page about SELinux in Ubuntu Karmic ( Mathias Gug [19:58] Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com [19:58] kees: meh [19:58] kees: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SELinux? [20:01] mathiaz: yup, that's the best there is or wiki.ubuntu.com/SELinux [20:02] kees: tank ya weray moutche! [20:04] hehe [20:08] can someone moderate my UDS mail to -devel please, message needs to get quickly. [20:09] jcastro: you mean u-d-a@? [20:09] -devel will be fine I think [20:09] ah, can't do that, sorry [20:10] thanks for trying! [20:10] jcastro: evand1 should be able to push it through. [20:16] Keybuk: FYI, if you plan to update lucid's udev soon, can you please warn me before? udev and consolekit need to be updated in lockstep (new udev needs CK 0.4, which doesn't work with current udev) [20:28] Keybuk: any idea why iptraf and iputils (build1) are showing in mom? [20:35] nxvl: mom doesn't know about the XbuildN case [20:35] pitti: ooohhh [20:35] thnx [21:03] kees: there is a thread on the sssd-devel mailing about building sssd with selinux - https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/sssd-devel/2009-November/001232.html [21:04] kees: the question is whether the administration tools could be linked against selinux and still be used in the default Ubuntu install [21:07] mathiaz: not sure what sssd is, but Ubuntu has modern SELinux tools. it should all Just Work for the most part [21:08] kees: is there a way to perform runtime SELinux detection? [21:08] kees: https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/sssd-devel/2009-November/001236.html [21:09] kees: This^^ is upstream last reply [21:10] mathiaz: yes, libselinux provides that ability. there is no harm linking against libselinux (it's in main, lots of stuff links, etc) [21:11] kees: Can I CC you on my reply? [21:12] mathiaz: sure [21:12] pitti: Keybuk's on holiday this week [21:12] cjwatson: ah, thanks (much deserved) [21:12] I wonder why he left IRC running [21:13] https://launchpad.net/~smoser/+archive/ppa/+build/1318926 says "Start 2009-11-05 (2505)" is that right ? is that expected to "start" building in 2 days ? [21:13] because I use IRC for talking to friends as well as for work ;-) [21:14] jcastro: moderated [21:14] Keybuk: that doesn't suck you right back into work while vacationing? [21:15] cjwatson, thanks! [21:15] /c/c [21:15] jdong: no ;) [21:16] lol, your self-control is clearly superior! [21:19] jdong: I'm on sofa watching DS9's "O'Brien must suffer" episode from the 6th season :p [21:19] Keybuk: so if I asked why my bootup is thrashing... *ducks* [21:20] jdong: then I would cheerfully ignore you [21:21] :) good man! Enjoy your vacation! [21:23] Keybuk: if you're on vacation, why are you on irc? (people always ask me this when i'm on vacation and ive yet to come up with a decent answer) [21:25] MsMaco: ah, I believe we've reached the middle of this conversation [21:25] Keybuk: wait if you're on vacation.... why doesn't MsMaco have an IRC bouncer? [21:25] haha ok no more clowning around [21:25] back to homework! [21:25] Ugh. Don't say that - it just reminds me that I should be working on homework too [21:26] *confused* [21:26] ebroder: haha. I catch myself doing this instead of homework way too often ;-) [21:26] *heads over to W20 reading room....* [21:26] ubuntu is waaaaaaayyyyyyyy better than homework [21:26] MsMaco: but it doesn't help in passing classes [21:26] unfortunately :( [21:27] passing classes is overrated [21:27] I failed all of mine [21:27] then never went to university [21:27] not that I would necessarily recommend this approach to impressionable youngsters ... but getting involved with free software in my third year was a lot more useful to my career than the classes I missed due to being up all night hacking [21:29] :) [21:29] im pretty sure id be a MUCH worse programmer if the only code i ever wrote was my homework [21:29] Ha! [21:29] Keybuk, cjwatson: http://xkcd.com/519/ ? :-) [21:29] ebroder: ^ I meant [21:30] meanwhile today one of my classmates realized (as i was chatting with the OS prof about filesystems) that "wait...you do this *outside* of class too?? WHY?" [21:30] pitti: perl?? Oh my .. ;-P [21:31] pitti: wait - are you also suggesting that in your *own* experience classes are overrated? [21:31] mathiaz: nah, I just remembered that xkcd comic :) [21:32] haha just wait til dt ch en notices this conversation. he's always getting on me to do my homework [21:32] cjwatson: I was in a somewhat similar position, although free software only partially helped in only one module of the music degree I was completing. :) [21:32] actually, my university time/classes haven't helped me at all career-wise [21:32] but they certainly did for learning how to quickly get into technical things, doing political work, learning how our world works (in a scientific sense), and generally having lots of fun, too [21:33] I'd do it again if I had the choice [21:33] pitti: no wonder .. isn't it that 90% all for university time is not useful for realworld jobs? Anyways, you need the diplom [21:33] sebner: right, but that's not the point of an uni in the first place, so that's okay IMHO [21:33] pitti: fun? there was fun in your classes? i feel gyped! [21:33] heh [21:33] MsMaco: well, more of it outside, but yes, discussing scientific things can be fun, too [21:34] I get a lot out of a very small number of classes I've taken here. And almost nothing out of most of them. But I think I'd have a hard time doing some of the cool stuff I can do here outside of my classes if I didn't go to school [21:34] for my own very personal definition anyway :) [21:34] i keep starting out classes hating them and thinking their useless then at the end going "OH! so THAT's how that works! COOL!!!" [21:34] s/their/they're/ === TheMuso` is now known as TheMuso [21:34] also, I really enjoyed maths at uni, to understand how algebra/arithmetics REALLY work [21:34] * MsMaco shudders [21:35] i hate math [21:35] sure, I don't need to be able to proof that 2+2=4 for Ubuntu work, but I find it interesting anyway :) [21:35] * TheMuso has never enjoyed maths, however I do accept its a necessary part of life. If I need to do any mathamatics for computre related stuff and I don't really know it, I will learn it. [21:36] * Keybuk likes math [21:36] im just pretty resolved to the fact that i'll never write a physics engine. thus, dont need math :) [21:36] * pitti goes back to fixing those #*($#($ LVM udev rules and just notices that this is not in anyway less complicated than maths.. [21:37] pitti: LVM is closer to dark magic than math [21:37] oh you uk/au people are going to try to make me start pluralizing "math" arent you? [21:37] Yes, and then we're going to start talking about ceiling cat :-P [21:38] (Oh wait - "maths" is a commonwealth thing? I didn't realize that) [21:38] mathi [21:38] MsMaco: hm, AFAIR that's how I learned it at school; so "I like math" is actually correct? [21:38] pitti: in the US, "math" is the common way [21:38] pitti: it's correct in the US, and incorrect in England :) [21:38] im in the US [21:38] pitti: xkcd> yes :) [21:38] slangasek: maths is incorrect in any country [21:38] I think they taught me British English, although nowadays I speak a wild mixture of US/GB/Denglish [21:38] heh [21:38] if it's an abbreviation for mathematics, it should be MATH'S :p [21:39] Denglish??? [21:39] Keybuk: are you a grocer [21:39] it's easy, just remember that it is the opposite of the usual use of sport/sports [21:39] i assume D = Deutsch? [21:39] MsMaco: "Deutsch/English" wild mix (our way to say that in Germany) [21:39] slangasek: the apostrophe indicates missing letters [21:39] pitti: school english is Oxford English in D/AUT :) [21:40] since you can't have one mathematic, the "s" isn't pluralising, so if you keep the "s" but miss out the "ematic" - you need the apostrophe because you missed them out [21:40] pitti: given that one derives from the other, i cant imagine it looks *that* screwed up to mix them. i mean, "address"/"adress" one looks like a typo of the other [21:40] sebner: yeah, but that was 11 years and umphteen conferences ago :) [21:40] Keybuk: you are a smart one :D btw, thx for your cool mail help =) [21:40] Keybuk: maybe you can't have one mathematic, but let me show you my new counting theor [21:40] y [21:41] slangasek: you should me yours, I'll show you mine [21:41] pitti: heh, wondering why they still stick to oxford one. It's not really spoken, sounds snobistig (Denglisch!1!1!1!) I've heard [21:41] slangasek: oh, you replaced the Peano axioms by the Langasek axioms? [21:41] pitti: and let me tell you, they're AWESOME [21:42] pitti: uhuhu, just learned about the Peano axioms 2 weeks ago :D [21:42] slangasek: can't wait to see them! [21:42] slangasek: like: 9.10 + 1 = 10.04? [21:43] sebner: ah, so you can prove commutativity of + now? isn't it great? :-) [21:43] (and so absolutely useless, too..) [21:43] pitti: heh, don't worry, we've already passed the complex numbers :D [21:43] slangasek: I bet it's like "10 bugs (reported) - 1 bug (fixed) == 15 bugs (reported)" [21:44] sounds about right [21:45] * pitti wonders how to fix the lvm2 rules without becoming TIL and having to merge the package [21:45]