[00:05] pleia2, bodhi_zazen, BiosElement: ping, is there a meeting? [00:05] doctormo: I've got no idea >.> [00:05] I am here... [00:06] I'm here [00:06] but kids baths are looming [00:06] got little response to my email, so I wasn't sure [00:06] I was not sure if there was to be a meeting either... it was just asked if we could make it... but I thought it was scheduled for 9pm... EST [00:06] I responded -- I thought [00:07] yes, it is a 9EST [00:07] in 2 hours [00:07] cprofitt: yep, you replied, and doctormo said he'd be late [00:07] cool... I thought I saw bodhi and van respond [00:07] nothing from Vantrax or bodhi_zazen [00:07] but I am not at that computer right now... [00:07] pleia2: Ah good, 9pm est, I wonder why I thought it was 7pm [00:08] I will go get the baths done, wife trained in the art of power point and then make the meeting... [00:08] bbl [00:08] ok [00:11] hi [00:11] i think that second time worked out lunchtime for me [00:11] 2hours away? === bodhizazen is now known as bodhi_zazen [00:20] pleia2: Did my last messages get through? [00:24] pleia2: Ah good, 9pm est, I wonder why I thought it was 7pm [00:24] last one i saw [00:33] doctormo: you about? /msg me when you have a moment please :) [00:34] Vantrax, yeah... it is 1.5 hours away now [00:45] I will be with child =) [00:46] heh heh "with child" [01:04] lol [01:22] mplayer ~/Desktop/Music/flac/Steely_Dan_-_Countdown_to_Ecstasy_$1973$/*.flac [01:22] gah! [01:22] sorry [01:22] hey hal14450 [01:23] lo cprofitt [01:23] hal14450, are you going to the meeting Thursday? [01:23] I need to give you an XL shirt to bring to ausimage for Sunday if you are [01:23] yes i promise i'll be there i've got some stuff to talk to you about and it good news ;-) [01:24] awesome... any hints? [01:24] not sure about Sunday or Saturday yet but I'll try to make it out there [01:24] damn... I need to find a person who is going for sure... [01:24] its' about Ubuntu [01:24] I keep trying to raise dave123 -- he is going [01:25] i'll know by Thursday [01:25] now you have me in suspense [01:25] sorry dude [01:25] no problem... [01:25] it's been hectic recently [01:25] we're swamped at work [01:25] I assume you do not want to talk to me about it today... and want to wait until Thursday [01:25] so I will not push... [01:25] great... glad to hear work is going well... [01:26] easier to talk in person about it [01:26] I made it to the Fedora thing at RIT [01:27] we should take this to NY though... [01:27] as it is not learning related [01:27] you are not in the NY channel though [01:28] cprofitt: coming down to see me on Saturday night? :) [01:28] pleia2, if the family is well I may try... [01:28] yay, I hope so! [01:28] but I need to get the XL shirt to someone just in case [01:28] I have three kids who have flu like symptoms right now [01:28] then I will have met you, and meeting doctormo at UDS later this month [01:28] aww, poor kiddos :( [01:28] the eldest even bailed on Trick or Treating because of it [01:29] wow [01:29] Cool... I hope to get there. [01:29] cprofitt: Are you coming to UDS? [01:30] doctormo, I do not think I could... [01:30] not even sure where it is [01:30] Dallas, TX [01:30] and money is tight at my house [01:30] when is it? [01:30] ah... this month... [01:30] two weeks? [01:30] no... I could not afford to do that... and have not taken the time off [01:30] I will be at NYSCATE though [01:31] what is that? [01:31] doctormo: you did manage to get sponsorship, right? [01:31] I couldn't go otherwise, and my boss is awesome about giving me PTO for it [01:31] they sponsor people? [01:32] woah... I will have to look in to that next year [01:32] cprofitt: yep, lots of people [01:32] I didn't, I'm rather bummed, possibly to be a bumb my the end of this workless expierment. [01:32] doctormo: aw, shame :\ [01:32] they put me on crew on thursday [01:32] so I'll be working for my sponsorship ;) [01:32] lol [01:33] wow... [01:33] gotta do what you gotta do. [01:33] who would I have to see for next year pleia2 ? [01:33] cprofitt: they announce it, there is an online form you fill out [01:34] nice... is it annual or every six months? [01:34] six months [01:36] there is a developers summit for each release, at the beginning of the release cycle [01:37] so we'll be there to talk about lucid [01:37] and go out drinking in dallas :) [01:37] I've never been to texas before! [01:38] I have been to Texas... it is nice... Dallas is a bit different as far as expressways [01:38] they have exits in the middle [01:39] good thing I won't be driving [01:39] good thing I can't drive. [01:40] I was designated driver down there [01:40] also... do NOT turn the inside dome light on in your car while driving [01:40] it is a Dallas 'signal' for a paid escort [01:40] * Vantrax wishes he could go [01:40] I almost got beat up by a pimp for that [01:40] Vantrax: for an escort? [01:40] bah [01:40] heheh [01:40] uds [01:41] * Vantrax can only go to linux.conf.au because work is paying.... [01:41] * Vantrax is buying a house [01:41] awesome, congrats [01:41] congrats Vantrax [01:41] My work will never pay for me... [01:41] I will have to take vacation and pay or get sponsored [01:42] Congratulations, welcome to the jouney to middle class-dom [01:43] house: http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=105975677&f=0&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=60090008&s=qld&snf=rbs&tm=1256701518 [01:43] holy crap Vantrax [01:44] that costs 6x more than my pitiful house [01:44] the average house price in my city is $420K [01:44] National average is around $380k [01:44] Vantrax: wow! very nice :) [01:45] aside from that damn red kitchen... [01:45] hehe [01:45] that is getting made white [01:45] I would not, on my salary, be able to touch a house any where close to that [01:46] as a result... im going to be very broke for the next 10 years:P [01:46] yeah... the only think I did not like about the house was the excessive red [01:46] 10 years? [01:46] you can pay it off in 10 years? [01:46] * cprofitt slams head in to wall [01:46] no... [01:46] I have to pay for 30 [01:46] but in 10 years i can refinance to something more manageable in terms of repayments [01:47] well... very ncie [01:47] cprofitt, aside from the carpet upstairs (which is actually quite nice) its all just carpets etc, so it wont look very rea [01:47] red [01:47] My wife is anti-modern open floor plan [01:47] so that house would never float for me... but I do like it [01:47] well... if my wife gets another promotion we could pay it in 10... [01:49] cprofitt, this was the one next door: http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=105946485&f=10&p=10&t=res&ty=&fmt=&header=&cc=&c=75231440&s=qld&snf=rbs&tm=1257212925 [01:56] I'm waiting to buy a house that's actually worth the money I pay for it. [01:57] And perhaps one I can pay off in half my life time, as apposed to 2 life times. [01:58] But maybe I'm just being picky. [01:58] hehe [01:59] ready for meeting everyone? [01:59] yep! [01:59] we didn't put it on the fridge calendar, but #ubuntu-meeting is free if we want to have it there [02:01] no need, but if you want [02:01] I think mostly this is just a board meeting, rather than a full team meeting [02:01] pleia2, we meeting here? [02:02] yeah, meeting here [02:02] yer [02:02] I would think here for tonight... [02:02] just a little chat when we are all around [02:02] pleia2, if it's a small amount of people you're welcome to use my 800 # and conference room if you want [02:02] bodhi_zazen, you here? [02:02] here [02:02] not really ... [02:02] I am @ work and need to be running soon, like 5 min ago , he he he [02:02] so I think we just have one agenda item - "the status of the project and how we can get things moving forward" [02:03] i will watch in as I can [02:03] I think I have shared my suggestions with cprofitt [02:03] hal14450: thanks for the offer hal14450! I think we'll just have this one here though [02:04] ok, so, the premise here: not much is getting done at the moment, how do we fix? [02:04] np yw, sometimes having a conf call is easier w/ a small number of people you can get more accomplished than you can w/ text in my experience [02:05] I propose adding more hours to the day so I have time to work on this project :) [02:05] o/ [02:05] go bodhi_zazen [02:06] I can not stay long, so I will "throw out" my observations =) [02:06] ok, please do [02:06] first, we need to get back to our "roots" [02:06] we are a moodle project, not a wiki project [02:06] so, unless there is a gaping void in the Ubuntu wiki, we do not need to write a lot of docuements [02:07] moodle, IMO, is more prestentation of the information [02:07] we're not a moodle project.. [02:07] bodhi_zazen, moodle is the platform, were a learning project [02:07] but otherwise I agree [02:07] Second, we really need to set an example as leaders [02:08] and we also have to cater for teaching done in places with limited internet (asciidoc exports) and offline loco training [02:08] we can not possibly recruit people if we appear to be bickering amongst ourselfes [02:08] Vantrax: *nod* [02:08] we need to accept more then one solution to a problem [02:08] I agree [02:09] +1 bodhi_zazen [02:09] what I'd really like to see is the leaders within the project draw upon their strong points and start rolling with it [02:10] bodhi_zazen and cprofitt working on moodle, me getting back to handling more IRC stuff than just Open Week, doctormo continuing his real life classroom work [02:10] * Vantrax being Switzerland [02:10] instead of focusing on the specifics of how it all comes together, just getting some content out there and going from there [02:11] pleia2: +1 [02:11] pleia2's email gave us a loose structure that we can follow that is both effective and covers all areas [02:11] we just need to try to make sure we are using a similar style of presentation and writing where possible in producing materials. [02:11] I would like to throw out the CoC : http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct [02:12] not to chastise anyone mind you [02:12] but that is how a project should wokr [02:12] *work [02:12] bodhi_zazen, -> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct [02:12] Vantrax: I agree, but currently we're spending a lot of time talking about things without real content to point to to consolidate our styles [02:13] I think we as leaders need to look at those bullets and get this project back in line with the CoC, the rest will almost certainly fall into place [02:13] pleia2, no argument there:P [02:13] I would suggest we focus entirely on the beginners section that is outlined in the wiki [02:14] bodhi_zazen: That amounts to good government before good food supply. Nation recovery falls on such ideas. But I'm a strong proponent of the CoC in all instances of community involvement. [02:14] generate materials that cover the topics and keep in touch with what other people are working on to integrate things. [02:14] Vantrax: +1 [02:15] Vantrax: What are the begginers sections? [02:15] if there are problems we can deal with them as they come but we are spending way to much time going back over things that should have been solved [02:16] desktop, I assume [02:16] Vantrax: *nod* [02:16] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics [02:17] * cprofitt nods [02:17] Also, I think we need an administrator/chairperson who keeps this all organized and if necessary can make a decision when people disagree. [02:17] Vantrax: a board leader? [02:17] kinda [02:18] one of the things you learn in IT is that when you have a board, no one is accountable or responsible for anything [02:19] I agree with that Vantrax [02:19] and if it would help end some of the bickering that I have seen it would be good. [02:19] yep [02:20] There is also a strong need to document what was done in meetings and mailing lists [02:20] We need to have one person accountable for everything [02:20] I had a struggle re-acclimating myself due to a lack of documented decisions [02:20] also... do we want decision to be 'officially' made by the board? [02:20] they can delegate responsibility for things to people (and I recommend it) but they are accountable for the what things are delegated. [02:21] cprofitt, i would think that would be a good idea [02:21] at the moment its not clear what has and has not been officially decided [02:21] my reason for asking that is... asciidocs appears to be something that was not 'voted' on... [02:21] before we say it's needed, is there anyone here who is willing to take on that responsibility? [02:21] and I was not sure if that was something we desired... or if decisions could be informal [02:21] * Vantrax votes for pleia2 [02:22] Vantrax, she said willing [02:22] :-) [02:22] I think pleia2 would love to do it, but time constraints likely do not allow for 36 hour days [02:22] :-) [02:22] * Vantrax nominates pleia2 [02:23] oh gosh, I am not going to take responsibility for this! [02:23] hehe [02:23] cprofitt, it was something that was discussed alot, and was decided that it was a good idea. I dont think it was ever formalized.... again why we need an administrator function [02:23] and it's true, I don't have the time [02:23] I can do it, im just a little sporadic at the moment with the baby [02:23] Vantrax, with or without an administrator lead board member we also must decide how things become 'official' [02:24] cprofitt, i agree [02:24] I do not care how that is... but agreeing to the process is critical to everyone feeling 'good' when decisions are made [02:24] i would assume by agreement of quorum [02:24] from the board [02:24] that way it can be done via mailing list [02:24] if necessary\ [02:24] then we have to document them so potential contributors can 'learn' about what we are doing w/o having to look at old logs and mailing list archives [02:25] cprofitt, yep, we need someone to maintain a wiki page on these sorts of decisions. [02:25] When I proposed the idea of an administrator, I didn't intend for a leadership role , but more of a cleaner of wikis and note of meetings. [02:25] Did i hear you volunteer:P [02:25] I am not sure we need a chairperson, we do need to : [02:25] Didn't even have to be someone on the board [02:25] 1. improve communication [02:25] 2. a better way of conflict resolution [02:25] doctormo, I never said had to be on the board [02:26] I said someone that was head accountable [02:26] which would be by the board [02:26] Vantrax: My statement wasn't connected to yours, sorry for the wire crossing. [02:26] Vantrax: I think you'd be great, but I'm concerned about your "sporadic" availability [02:26] I think if we do those two things, we would be fine, with or without a chair [02:26] we need someone who is around, I am not sure there is someone at this time who can do that [02:26] pleia2, its getting better now [02:26] but shes still only 2 months old [02:27] well for now, I'll try to do a better job at the administrative stuff (been planning meetings and things, but I could be better, and delagate more) [02:27] bodhi_zazen: +1 [02:28] pleia2, you can do the job and delegate everything:P you would just have to keep tabs on it [02:28] Vantrax: yeah, true :) [02:28] pleia2, perhaps you and I could split duties... [02:28] bodhi_zazen, both good points [02:28] or you and Vantrax [02:28] swoody, was it you that said you didn't mind taking on some of these tasks? [02:28] cprofitt, you can delegate responsibility, but not split accountability [02:29] * Vantrax is always surprised when ITIL comes in handy. [02:29] I am growing to love ITIL [02:29] doctormo, of course I wouldn't mind :) [02:29] ok, I can take responsibility for making some *someone* updates the wiki and follows up with tasks [02:29] Vantrax, I agree you can not split... accountability... [02:29] then again we have multiple items to be accountable for [02:29] documentation. [02:29] pleia2: I'm thinking more of some pre-defined, mechanical tasks. Things like "document board votes in one place" [02:29] calling meetings. [02:29] the problem for most of us is *time* [02:29] etc. [02:30] doctormo: *nod* [02:30] both of those could be separate; yes? [02:30] true, but im talking more from an overall administration perspective, which is mostly about communication, and resolution [02:30] Vantrax: nods [02:30] within that we would have people responsible for the wiki, for coordinating moodle, asciidoc, etc [02:30] I would offer... [02:30] but I am concerned that people have concerns with my leadership [02:31] and I do worry about my time as well [02:31] * Vantrax has never seen a problem with it [02:31] given that I have recently had a conflict with a member of the board I also do not want to cause a rift by taking more on... [02:32] thanks Vantrax [02:32] I also know that my style can be seen, at times, to be too direct [02:32] and not sure how well that meshes with the style this group wants/needs [02:32] What ever the news rolls we need to make are, we should make sure the responsibilities and the jobs are documented strongly with the board's objectives and other rolls. [02:32] doctormo, first job for the administrator:P [02:33] draft and present to board [02:33] doctormo: +1 [02:33] perhaps we can entertain having a third party person come in and do this with us... [02:33] like Craig A. Eddy... [02:33] I dunno... [02:34] that being said, how about Ill take up the responsibility for the meantime and draft this and present it. Then we open it up to everyone involved to fill the positions outlined [02:34] including the administrator [02:34] sounds good [02:34] Vantrax, sounds fair to me [02:34] I'll keep making sure we have meetings and things [02:34] until we sort this out [02:34] pleia2, thanks [02:34] but we're empire building a bit again ;) can we focus back on Getting Things Done? [02:35] your efforts are appreciated [02:35] that way people can step in and take control of a section they are passionate about, but be held accountable to make sure things are getting done, and are integrated [02:35] pleia2, I agree... but part of getting things done is having a way to get the train back on the rails if it goes off again [02:35] pleia2, i hate empire building, but sometimes you have to do it just a little bit [02:35] we really lacked in getting things documented [02:35] I know some needs to be done, but I was hoping this meeting could mostly be more with moving forward on coursework rather than even more administrative stuff [02:36] So, ill get this stuff drafted on the wiki [02:36] thanks Vantrax [02:36] and that cause, IMHO, a situation where people took my trying to figure it out as an inquisition [02:36] Coursework, we focus on the desktop stuff [02:36] rather than a simple... help me understand this [02:36] cprofitt: Sorry about that, I hope we got that cleared up. Internet is such a pain for word use meaning. [02:37] we get everyone involved in the project to take one topic under their wing from the desktop list and work on it [02:37] ok, can we get some folks to commit to working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics ? [02:37] to be honest doctormo I am still uncomfortable with how it was 'left' [02:37] pleia2, I will try to get back to my topic that I chose - installation [02:37] in Moodle format. [02:37] swoody: did an awesome job linking to a bunch of resources [02:37] cprofitt: great! [02:37] so I can show a 'style' as an example. [02:37] I also have to work on another article for SmartBean [02:37] this one about Open Source programming [02:38] they want me to write a regular piece about FOSS [02:38] Vantrax: I'm handeling the entire sys admin course so far, should I take the desktop intro from pleia2? [02:38] I'm going to recruit more people to link to more wiki resources [02:38] doctormo: go for it [02:38] turns out course development is not my forte :) I'm better at organizing people and things [02:39] doctormo, i think we should start on the sysadmin stuff after we have a fair bit sorted for the desktop [02:39] its easier to work upward [02:39] Vantrax: doctormo has already written 10 sysadmin courses [02:39] not to say stop working on it....:P [02:39] I know [02:39] ok :) [02:39] and he should continue, its just as a group we should focus on the desktop [02:39] I think we all agree here [02:40] thank God for that:P [02:40] hehe [02:40] hugs all around! [02:40] I agree, although some work on the how to teach in paralell? as people learn? [02:40] doctormo: I think we're going to try to document "what we're doing - here is a link to my stuff" on the wiki [02:41] we'll revisit how this is working after we've got a bit done [02:41] I am good with classroom teaching, but I need help on teaching with IRC and Moodle [02:41] while I have written a course in Moodle I have not, yet, had the opportunity to teach it [02:41] ok pleia2, makes sense [02:41] doctormo, I just tend to think we should try to work on doing it a bit before we try to write on teaching:P [02:41] that is why I was trying to get some K-12 educators involved via classroom20.com [02:41] did anyone sign-up for the on-line Moodle course they were offering? [02:42] So Teach and others is -1, SysAdmin is +0 and Desktop is +1, that's a fairly good start on the priorities?? [02:42] well as I mentioned before, and also to doctormo - I wouldn't mind taking on maintaining a meeting-decisions page. To organize and summarize all the decisions that have been made... [02:42] doctormo: I think s, yes [02:42] kind of offtopic now ;) [02:42] swoody: great! [02:42] the only caveat to that is how to properly write a course for the media intended [02:42] swoody: It would involve a bit of archive reading to get everything we've forggoten. [02:43] but that way we can have one central location for any newcomers who would like to help out. [02:43] swoody: can you start now by saying you volunteered to do that, Vantrax is writing up a further Roles doc, and some other stuff I forgot already ;) [02:43] I do not want a course on teaching, but having a good idea how an on-line asynchronous course works would help [02:43] and for all of us already involved to remind us of what has been decided ;) [02:43] we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Tasks [02:43] doctormo, that's not a problem :) [02:43] pleia2, will do :) [02:44] +1 swoody [02:44] we need to do that. [02:44] has any beginning been made for this? or shall I start from scratch? [02:44] well now the wiki isn't loading, but Tasks was our page for ongoing things [02:44] swoody: Cool, would you like me to check up with you next week? [02:45] doctormo, sure thing :) [02:45] I'll be around [02:46] ok, one last thing before we wrap up? [02:46] sure [02:46] I am doing the Ubuntu Open Week presentation tomorrow afternoon at 20:00 UTC [02:46] as mentioned on list [02:46] swoody, it hasnt been done yet, that is half the problem:P [02:47] awesome recruitment tool, are we ready for volunteers? what things can we do tonight to BE ready? [02:47] Just get our process documented... [02:47] only thing I can think of right now is linking to wiki documents [02:47] Vantrax, that's not a problem, I'll just start from scratch, and catch up through the logs :) [02:47] and that is a tall order in one night [02:47] cprofitt: I meant things that are posible :) [02:47] have a process detailed on how to join would be possible though [02:48] we have our joining process details [02:48] perhaps some basic roles for contributors... which I think we have [02:48] detailed [02:48] do we? [02:48] ugh, wiki down at such a bad time [02:48] indeed [02:48] with the wiki down... I am not sure [02:48] hence why I am throwing stuff against the wall [02:49] cprofitt: when you find "basic roles for contributors" can you let me know? I think that's what I'm grasping for here [02:49] yep [02:49] great :) [02:49] page will not load for me yet... but if it does [02:49] pleia2: Basic instructions could be, "research" and "write", even if people are writing odfs and sending them to the mailing list, it's not pretty, but it's progress. [02:50] doctormo: yeah, I've been working with the Beginners Team Education Focus Group, encouraging them just to jump in [02:50] doctormo, would finding and reviewing existing resources be under research? [02:50] my old team pleia2 [02:50] the new lead is very excited to get things rolling [02:50] yeah, I've been working with him these past couple weeks [02:51]