[00:11] I'd like to appologise to everyone who came to the marketing meeting, I wasn't here to call it to order. === alsroot__ is now known as alsroot === swoody_ is now known as swoody === nxvl_ is now known as nxvl === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === nik0 is now known as niko === imlad|away is now known as imlad === imlad is now known as imlad|away === fader|away is now known as fader_ [13:00] #startmeeting [13:00] Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is NCommander. [13:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [13:01] ogra, plars davidm GrueMaster JamieBennett dyfet StevenK lool, ping [13:01] here [13:01] Made it! \o/ [13:02] * ogra is here [13:02] hola [13:02] no persia [13:02] StevenK, Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is NCommander. - not quite [13:02] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091027 [13:02] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091027 [13:02] er [13:02] Haha [13:02] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091103 [13:02] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091103 [13:03] It's the 4th here [13:03] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/LucidSpecifications [13:03] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/LucidSpecifications [13:03] pfft [13:03] StevenK, time is relative [13:03] NCommander, action items ? [13:03] [topic] Action Item Review [13:03] New Topic: Action Item Review [13:03] [topic] ogra to file a bug for dhclient not working properly with the FEC driver in d-i [13:03] New Topic: ogra to file a bug for dhclient not working properly with the FEC driver in d-i [13:04] * ogra reopened bug 356975 [13:04] Launchpad bug 356975 in linux "imx51 oops after watchdog call" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/356975 [13:04] ogra, which presumably was refixed :-) [13:04] [topic] dyfet to test recent banshee release and report to the banshee bug [13:04] New Topic: dyfet to test recent banshee release and report to the banshee bug [13:04] NCommander, it was never fixed [13:04] That was done :) [13:04] ogra, it says Fix released [13:05] NCommander, no idea why bjf closed it [13:05] (I mean the task) [13:05] right [13:05] ogra, oh [13:05] he just closed it when the release was done [13:05] since nobody (including myself) could reproduce it back then [13:05] ogra, *sigh*, we probably should track that for lucid [13:05] i tracked it for linux-fsl-imx51 generally for now [13:05] ogra: plars reproduced my version of the bug, I could never reproduce yours :) [13:06] ogra, so no action item needed, right? [13:06] dyfet`, different one [13:06] dyfet`: this is the banshee bug? [13:06] NCommander, nope [13:06] [topic] lool and NCommander to discuss u-boot upgrades off-channel and report back [13:06] New Topic: lool and NCommander to discuss u-boot upgrades off-channel and report back [13:06] NCommander, i could add more debugging stuff, but given we'll default to alternate that will happen anyway during lucid === dyfet` is now known as dyfet [13:07] ogra, we're going to alternates for lucid? [13:07] Or just making sure they work. [13:07] That is/should be a spec [13:07] see the specs [13:07] i added the list from the internal wiki to the MobileTeam/LucidSpecifications wikipage btw [13:07] ogra, right, sorry. I'm not caffinated yet [13:07] in the "high prio specs" area [13:08] I don't think we need UNR/UMR status review since we just released [13:08] [topic] Specification Review [13:08] New Topic: Specification Review [13:08] no, none of these [13:08] so ... [13:08] i sent that mail [13:08] I think the easiest way is to go right down the list [13:09] did everyone make a pick of a favorite spec from the high prio list ? [13:09] ogra: yup [13:09] Yes [13:09] yeah [13:09] cool :) [13:09] so lets drop them in the channel one by one ... [13:09] [topic] # ARM: default to alternate image, make desktop image optional [13:09] New Topic: # ARM: default to alternate image, make desktop image optional [13:10] I'd like to take this one if no one objections [13:10] fine with me, add your name to it on the wikipage [13:10] ogra, actually, this should be broken up per-SoC [13:10] I have no imx51 hardware [13:10] you will get some [13:10] Oh [13:10] problem solved [13:10] we'll need to re-shuffle anyway ... [13:11] Hm. My pet spec isn't in the high prio list [13:11] and we'll get B3.0 (hopefully) [13:11] ogra, I'll hold a lock open on the wiki and add the names as we go spec to spec [13:11] [topic] ARM: 2D launcher for UNR [13:11] New Topic: ARM: 2D launcher for UNR [13:11] StevenK, well, you are supposed to take at least one from the high prio list [13:11] i'm fine taking the 2D launcher if nobody else wants it [13:11] I already have a spec but I wouldn't mind looking at the 2D stuff [13:11] go ogra [13:11] JamieBennett, feel feree [13:12] ogra: It's high prio, it isn't on the list. It needs to be [13:12] lol [13:12] *free even :) [13:12] StevenK, which one do you want me to bump [13:12] ogra: OK, I'll take 2D and Device Tree's then [13:12] NCommander: My name for it is 'mobile-lucid-une'; Renaming UNR to UNE [13:12] JamieBennett, cool ... though device tree will mostly live at the kernel team [13:12] JamieBennett, on our side it will be more testing than development work i suspect [13:12] ogra: that's what I thought hence my backup spec ;) [13:13] great [13:13] add your name to them [13:13] ogra, I'll be adding all the names. Just easier if one person does it [13:13] StevenK, added, and put your name on it [13:13] ok [13:13] NCommander: Okay [13:13] *Now* I have a high prio spec :-) [13:13] heh [13:13] [topic] ARM: cut down UNR seed [13:13] New Topic: ARM: cut down UNR seed [13:13] Will I need to fight Paul in the Arena of death for that one? ;) I see the one below as a related subset of this, too... [13:14] We're doing ARM UNR for lucid? [13:14] NCommander: I'll take that one [13:14] NCommander, thats the plan ... thus the 2D launcher [13:14] [topic] ARM: lightweight webkit based browser [13:14] New Topic: ARM: lightweight webkit based browser [13:14] * NCommander knows a few browsers like that already exist ... [13:14] I'm going to have to fiddle with seeds a lot due to the other 2 specs I'm writing, so [13:14] dyfet: nope, I just transposed them into lp for the purposes of getting them over, they are yours [13:14] i would propose that one to take as a team spec [13:14] epiphany and midori come to mind [13:14] right [13:15] Who wants it? [13:15] each of us should use a different browser for a month [13:15] *On ARM* [13:15] NCommander dyfet has expressed interest [13:15] i'll take the lead on it but would like to see team participation [13:15] I'll assign it to dyfet [13:15] ok, give it to dyfet [13:15] [topic] ARM: Per SoC Power management improvements [13:15] New Topic: ARM: Per SoC Power management improvements [13:15] thats nasty [13:15] This one is probably going to live mostly on the kernel side of things [13:15] and rather kernel team stuff [13:15] someone needs to track this, on a per SoC basis [13:16] but we're supposed to do the paperwork i think [13:16] Since quite a bit of the power stuff isn't going to carry over [13:16] carry over ? [13:16] we didnt even remotely look into it yet :) [13:16] ogra, er, its SoC specific, like low power modes [13:16] I think [13:16] right [13:16] */two cents* [13:16] but we didnt do anything specific for PM ever [13:17] apart from upstream kernel stuff per SoC [13:17] ogra, we've yet to have ARM hardware that actually has a battery for anything aside the RTC [13:17] Actually [13:17] indeed [13:17] still powertop and friends work fine on babbage for example [13:17] ogra, we need a sleep/hibrenate ARM spec :-/ [13:17] ++ [13:17] please add it [13:17] ogra, I think this spec should be assigned to whoever heads an SoC [13:17] And spit up apporiately [13:18] ok, since nobody steps up i'll take the PM one [13:18] [topic] ARM: Sleep/hibernation support and testing [13:18] New Topic: ARM: Sleep/hibernation support and testing [13:18] Haha, 'spit up' [13:18] *Split* [13:18] i'm fine taking that too if nobody else wants ... the testing part should be split off to plars or GrueMaster [13:19] StevenK, er, split :-P [13:19] [topic] ARM: Make gcc default to ARMv7 and Thumb2 [13:19] New Topic: ARM: Make gcc default to ARMv7 and Thumb2 [13:19] ogra: it'll be covered in testing, certainly [13:19] This one kinda tricky [13:19] Wasn't that done already? [13:19] StevenK, we went to ARMv6+VFP [13:20] who agreed on that one even ? [13:20] I worry if we go to ARMv7 and Thumb2, we'll have a ton of breakage in a LTS cycle [13:20] yep, same here [13:20] Then spec it :-) [13:20] but i surely was discussed in advance [13:20] Were you? [13:20] * StevenK cackles [13:20] * ogra wasnt :P [13:21] who wants this one? [13:21] (are we assigning specs for implementation, or just who's actually drafting one) [13:21] (just for clarification) [13:21] ownership until UDS for now [13:21] This one is a priority spec [13:21] we can discuss implementation later [13:22] if we're going to make the change, we want to do this BEFORE the toolchain uploads [13:22] Too late [13:22] yeah [13:22] d'oh [13:22] and we want to be able to discuss it [13:22] so it wont be implemented before UDS anyway [13:22] well, give it to me for now [13:23] [topic] UNR: Add support for alternate installer [13:23] New Topic: UNR: Add support for alternate installer [13:23] pfft [13:23] I won't mind taking this one if StevenK doesn't want it [13:23] * NCommander knows StevenK likes UNR specs [13:23] who wants that anyway :P [13:23] I do want it [13:23] alternate ? [13:23] why ? [13:23] StevenK, don't we have alternates indirectly via netboot though? [13:23] * ogra thinks its a step backwards [13:24] I'm not sure it buys it much, but I'm happy to entertain it long enough to talk about it [13:24] NCommander, we have only-ubiquity for sure [13:24] s/it much/us much/ [13:24] * NCommander vaguely remembers this conversation at Karmic UDS [13:24] * ogra finds it massively silly [13:24] ogra, UNR exists as a task in archive, and shows up in the netboot installer. I don' tknow if it works [13:24] Yes, we shouted you down there too [13:24] [topic] UNR: Include new DX team enhancements [13:24] NCommander, yes, still, alternate takes twice the time to install for no gain at all [13:24] New Topic: UNR: Include new DX team enhancements [13:25] * ogra guesses thats a clear StevenK spec [13:25] ogra, well, more advanced partitioning, but in general, I agree. [13:25] ogra: Full crypted disks for UNR? [13:25] I think we want alternates [13:25] but they're not 100% needed IMHO [13:25] * ogra doesnt [13:25] and finds it a silly decision ... but we'll discuss it [13:25] [topic] UNR: cut down non ARM UNR seed [13:25] New Topic: UNR: cut down non ARM UNR seed [13:25] I think that's a StevenK spec [13:25] Yeah [13:26] sounds like [13:26] I'll drive it [13:26] Probably implement it too [13:26] Ok, down to the brainstorm specs [13:26] It should be coordinated with the arm one to some level :) [13:26] yes [13:26] [topic] replace the maximus blacklist(s) with proper info on the affected windows [13:26] New Topic: replace the maximus blacklist(s) with proper info on the affected windows [13:26] I like seed specs, I work on them for 2 days and then mark them all Implemented [13:26] * NCommander has no idea what this one is about. [13:26] but the arm desktop on UNR might end up totally different [13:27] NCommander: The maximus blacklist is a list of windows that shouldn't be maximised [13:27] No one for this spec? [13:27] Oh [13:27] StevenK, so this one yours? [13:27] (do we want it for lucid?) [13:28] I actually vote persia, in seriousness [13:28] StevenK, priority? [13:28] sounds good [13:28] low/medium [13:28] * NCommander thinks we should market priority/desirability for brainstorm specs [13:28] Nice to have [13:28] how much upstream work is involved ? [13:28] i guess neil needs to hack a bit on it, no ? [13:28] [topic] reimplement desktop-switcher [13:28] New Topic: reimplement desktop-switcher [13:28] That's a njpatel question [13:29] yup [13:29] NCommander: I have a high-prio spec about that: mobile-lucid-netbook-sessions [13:29] he's well aware of it, but we should point out the blueprint to him [13:29] he'll be at UDS [13:29] StevenK, How do I write it? [13:29] UNR: Netboot Sessions or? [13:29] we can stack them on his lap [13:30] Netbook Session Switching [13:30] NCommander, ^^^ [13:30] NCommander: UNE: Using sessions to switch session types [13:30] (and not netboot :P ) [13:30] NCommander just has netboot on the brain [13:30] yeah [13:30] StevenK, added and marked to you [13:31] * StevenK plugs NCommander into a tftp server, and forces him to netboot Netware 3.5 [13:31] Now let's see you do useful work! [13:31] heh [13:31] No TCP/IP for you [13:31] * NCommander writes a NLM to load a linux kernel into kernel space and jumps into it [13:31] * plars has done much netware administration :) [13:31] plars: Poor guy [13:31] * NCommander knows what netware is. [13:31] That's enough for me [13:31] plars: I've done a little, shall we drink beer and cry at UDS? [13:31] heh [13:32] I've done worse [13:32] Solaris administration [13:32] No, I lie. IRIX! [13:32] * ogra loves IRIX [13:32] Heathen! [13:32] IRIX is fun [13:32] csh FTW [13:32] But seriously folks [13:32] IRIX makes me cry [13:32] i still have an indigo2 sitting behind me [13:33] Who's getting this spec, or am I leaving it unassigned and unloved [13:33] Which spec? :-) [13:33] * StevenK has lost track [13:33] StevenK, reimplement desktop-switcher [13:33] NCommander, StevenK said he already has one for it [13:33] oh [13:33] Missed that [13:34] NCommander: Oh, that should be ignored in favour of mobile-lucid-netbook-sessions [13:34] Oh [13:34] * NCommander kicks the spec off the list [13:34] [topic] dpkg stripping doc/man etc. [13:34] New Topic: dpkg stripping doc/man etc. [13:34] * NCommander shivers [13:34] I found this one interesting [13:34] i think thats from lools list [13:34] This is what Emdebian Crush does [13:34] Twitch [13:35] I'll assign this to lool, and shove it under low [13:35] I'm not touching that one with a ... a very long thing [13:35] [topic] UEFI bootloader based on Apple's Cortex A8/A9 work [13:35] New Topic: UEFI bootloader based on Apple's Cortex A8/A9 work [13:35] this is a good thing [13:35] if you say so [13:35] sounds interesting [13:36] ogra, this is a unifed boot solution for ARM [13:36] NCommander, only if you convince the vendors :P [13:36] ogra, basically one firmware, one bootloader, one kernel [13:36] I'll take this one, I'll mark it medium for now [13:36] * ogra thinks softbootloader has more chances to make lucid [13:36] [topic] cross-compilers [13:36] New Topic: cross-compilers [13:37] Are we seriously considering cross-compilers in archive? [13:37] not me [13:37] What is the intent of this one? [13:37] ask lool [13:37] its from his list iirc [13:37] NCommander: I was wondering the same [13:37] * NCommander puts it as Wishlist, and puts it in lool [13:37] *as [13:38] [topic] move debian-cd for imx51 completely to redboot-tools [13:38] New Topic: move debian-cd for imx51 completely to redboot-tools [13:38] That's a ogra spec if I ever saw one. [13:38] yep [13:38] mine [13:38] ogra, medium ok? [13:38] * ogra grabs greedy [13:38] yup [13:39] [topic] Application changes for UNR [13:39] New Topic: Application changes for UNR [13:39] We already have cross-compiliers in the archive [13:39] Me [13:39] * NCommander feels like he's seen this spec before [13:39] Is that not a dup? [13:39] Yeah, we've already deva'd this vu [13:39] really ? [13:39] Anyway, it needs more discussion [13:39] i thought its about screen resolution etc [13:39] [topic] ARM Softbootloader [13:39] New Topic: ARM Softbootloader [13:39] * NCommander coughs [13:39] So it's a new Lucid spec [13:39] right [13:39] This one is mine [13:39] And it isn't about screen res [13:39] * NCommander sticks it under wishlist, and moves on [13:40] [topic] clean up d-cd armel backends to remove a ton of code duplication between imx51 and dove [13:40] New Topic: clean up d-cd armel backends to remove a ton of code duplication between imx51 and dove [13:40] NCommander, make it medium [13:40] I'd like this one personally [13:40] NCommander, we likely get new SoCs that actually need softboot loader [13:40] ogra, *groan* [13:41] so make it more than wishlist [13:41] ogra, medium then [13:41] yup [13:41] And I'll shoot it dead if we don't need it [13:41] StevenK: Sorry, was away [13:41] ARM Softbootloader is the Duke Nukem Forever of Ubuntu specs. [13:41] NCommander: No, UNR Applications is [13:41] oh wonderful vaporware [13:41] We have talked about MID/UNR Applications at every UDS that I've attended [13:42] Anyway [13:42] njpatel: Spec talking about maximus blacklist, you're aware of it? [13:42] StevenK: nope [13:42] Any objections to me taking the d-cd armel backend refactoring? [13:42] njpatel: You are now :-P [13:42] nope [13:42] StevenK: indeed :) [13:42] StevenK, I nicked that one in favor the session one [13:42] NCommander: Who will sponsor your work? [13:43] StevenK, ogra or lool, as both did work with me in writing the dove backend [13:43] StevenK, debian-cd you mean ? [13:43] StevenK, that would be me or lool ... [13:43] NCommander: I think the maximus blacklist spec warrants some discussion [13:43] Fair enough [13:43] yea(its not TOO bad ATM, but if we keep adding SoCs, d-cd is going to become sentient and kill us in our sleeps) [13:43] Going to become? Hell, it is [13:43] * ogra doesnt see so much duplication yet ... but yeah [13:44] ogra, the fact of the matter is the image creation bits for ARM are ... fugly at best [13:44] NCommander: Can I take the "UEFI bootloader based on Apple's Cortex A8/A9 work" off you, I'm feeling left out :) [13:44] VFAT images are a hack with d-cd ATM [13:44] JamieBennett, sure [13:44] NCommander, well, there is a spec for ext2/3 vs vfat ;) [13:44] Poor JamieBennett, it's quick and the un-fed around here [13:44] ogra, yeah, I tossed that idea around with lool [13:44] * JamieBennett sits here with his 3 specs [13:45] [topic] stacked squashfs builds for live images (separate rootfs and kernel/modules completely) [13:45] New Topic: stacked squashfs builds for live images (separate rootfs and kernel/modules completely) [13:45] * NCommander looks at ogra [13:45] mine ! [13:45] ogra, priority? [13:45] but pointless if we switch to alternate :( [13:45] high i'd have said [13:45] but not sure anymore [13:45] make it medium [13:46] [topic] hardware based system recovery [13:46] New Topic: hardware based system recovery [13:46] no idea what that means [13:46] This one is mine, and this is another Duke Nukem Forever spec [13:46] or who added it [13:46] ogra, I dunno, I think someone edited that line [13:46] ah [13:46] Basically, this is having the installer install itself to the installation media so you can reinstall without the original disk [13:47] if you have the diskspace [13:47] ogra, indeed [13:47] Its probably worthwhile to at least consider it [13:47] call it recovery partition then ... thats what it is ;) [13:47] ogra, it won't get implemented if I do that. If I give it a new name, it might get implemented ;-) [13:47] OEM's may like it... [13:48] ogra: Ah now I understand :) [13:48] [topic] * casper cleanup/speedup [13:48] New Topic: * casper cleanup/speedup [13:48] * ogra looks at JamieBennett [13:48] * NCommander looks at JamieBennett [13:48] * JamieBennett puts his hand up slowly [13:48] heh [13:49] * NCommander prays for mercy on JamieBennett's soul [13:49] its not that hard [13:49] ogra, debugging casper isn't. Making it run fast probably will be [13:49] and mainly i think its ok for lucid to first simply identify the slow bits [13:49] [topic] ext2 images versus vfat [13:49] New Topic: ext2 images versus vfat [13:49] * NCommander waves [13:49] take it [13:50] and make that ext3 [13:50] ext2 is to fragile [13:50] I'd make a joke, but then I might get more specs [13:50] ogra, its ext2 for dove :-/ [13:50] StevenK, oh, so you want this spec? [13:50] NCommander: No [13:50] NCommander, it needs to be ext3 [13:50] [topic] rootstock gui [13:50] New Topic: rootstock gui [13:50]