[00:00] <callan> I asked what was happening, I was refused any information from you guys because I have to go through staffers even though this is an issue with ubuntu
[00:00] <callan> then I leave and some idiot starts talking like I'm in on it and there's a conspiracy against "the council"
[00:00] <callan> tomaw: I talk to you
[00:01] <callan> you assure me nothing is wrong, you're dealing with it and the is not some big thing against the arch offtopic channel
[00:01] <callan> despite there being now like 20 staffers in it idling
[00:02] <callan> and now out of nowhere I get told you've sent phrakture a warning to keep the channel in line
[00:03] <callan> this secrecy stuff is, frankly, retarded. if you're going to start sending me warnings about the channel how about you be a bit more transparent about what's happening
[00:03] <callan> it's not some ubuntu trolling headquarters
[00:03] <MenZa> 'you' being who, specifically?
[00:04] <callan> ubuntu ops? staffers? hell if I know
[00:04] <callan> I ask questions I get pushed around to other people
[00:04] <MenZa> Bureaucracy, in all its glory, does have some disadvantages, callan.
[00:05] <MenZa> Now, I've tried to distance myself from this 'issue' in the past, because frankly, I don't know much about it.
[00:05] <callan> I wish I knew much about it
[00:05] <callan> because I'd love to clear it up
[00:06] <callan> I feel terrible archlinux is being branded as some some group of professional trolls and I want to change that
[00:06] <MenZa> callan: So let me confirm; you're an op in #archlinux-offtopic, yeah?
[00:06] <callan> yes
[00:06] <MenZa> I also absolutely agree.
[00:07] <callan> I'm glad you're actually talking to me, it was really insulting how I was treated last time for something so trivial
[00:07] <MenZa> To be honest, it sounds like someone should sit down and talk this through intently - you and a number of other ops - and our IRC Council, depending on how your organisational structure is
[00:07] <MenZa> just so we can clear this up completely
[00:07] <callan> I'd love to
[00:07] <MenZa> because it's, frankly, annoying me not knowing anything about it and constantly hearing about it
[00:07] <MenZa> :P
[00:08] <MenZa> In that case, I suggest you send an e-mail to the IRC council mailing list and invite them to such a meeting.
[00:08] <callan> is there somewhere I can read about the "irc council"?
[00:09] <callan> and are you really constantly hearing about it? because I haven't heard a thing in about a month
[00:09] <Seeker`> all I am aware of is that we occasionally get groups of trolls in #ubuntu, and one thing these users have in common is that they are all in #archlinux-offtopic
[00:10] <MenZa> keep in mind though; the IRC Council is up for elections currently, so there may be a delay in response.
[00:10] <MenZa> but I most definitely think that'd be the way to go about solving this issue.
[00:10] <MenZa> (again, not knowing much about it)
[00:10] <MenZa> The e-mail is irc-council@lists.ubuntu.com
[00:10] <MenZa> Certainly, callan - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil
[00:11] <MenZa> callan: to sum up, the IRC Council is the body which organises the #ubuntu* namespace.
[00:11] <callan> Seeker`: it is a coincidence I believe, I am often active and I've never seen any organization in the channel and even warned against it
[00:11] <callan> MenZa: thankyou very much
[00:11] <callan> really
[00:12] <elky> callan, the issue tends to be that the archlinux-offtopic channel gets turned in to a organisation base by these trolls. they can at times be seen coordinating in there.
[00:13] <elky> they use it to boast about what they managed to do, who they managed to tick off, give running commentary of who they're currently harrassing -- that sort of thing
[00:13] <callan> I guess I can agree with you there. I've seen that
[00:14] <elky> and when ops sit back and watch it, it's sort of taken as tacit approval, by both the trolls, and us.
[00:14] <callan> I've got no problem banning people who are continually acting up
[00:15] <callan> but I've never really seen any proper logs of it happening either
[00:15] <elky> but youve seen the scheming...
[00:16] <callan> once or twice I've seen the boasting but I'm not completely convinced the channel is some base of operations like is being made out
[00:17] <callan> would staffers prefer I left it so they can keep track of this stuff or that I just ban people straight out
[00:17] <elky> we dont want it to be either, but whilever they're allowed to encourage each other and boast about their spoils there, then it's hard to see that it isnt.
[00:18] <callan> as far as I am concerned I don't care what the people do as long as they don't do it in the channel
[00:18] <elky> you would have to ask staffers directly. we're just namespace ops
[00:18] <callan> but maybe staffers want to fix the root of the problem?
[00:18] <callan> ok
[00:18]  * MenZa points out that trolling is against the Freenode guidelines, and think it's any self-respecting op's duty to enforce those in their channel.
[00:19] <MenZa> We ask our users to respect the freenode rules, in addition to our own governance documents.
[00:19] <callan> agreed
[00:19] <MenZa> So it's really quite simple then, isn't it? :)
[00:19] <callan> I guess in the best case scenario that channel shouldn't even exist because it's pretty seedy
[00:19] <callan> but if we kick them out of there they go back to the main channel
[00:19] <callan> and ever since the offtopic channel became proper it's done wonders for the main channel
[00:20] <elky> we sometimes say the same about our own offtopic channel, but believe it or not, kicking them out of there is just as easy as kicking them out of the main channel.
[00:20] <MenZa> We keep a strict rule of not allowing anything but support in #ubuntu. -offtopic is for (just about) everything else.
[00:20] <elky> letting someone stab you as a compromise for not cutting your throat is a bit silly.
[00:21] <MenZa> elky loves her analogies.
[00:21] <elky> because they're *good* :P
[00:21] <MenZa> I never said they weren't :P
[00:21] <callan> ok this has definitely been helpful. I'll keep stricter and I'll try and organize some sort of meeting
[00:21] <callan> anything else I need to know?
[00:21] <MenZa> (you can ask elky - she sits on the council)
[00:22] <elky> i think that's all i have to say for now. i'm at work and behind on things because i was off sick last week
[00:23] <callan> elky: would it be better to just send an email then?
[00:23] <elky> cant hurt to.
[00:24] <MenZa> niko: you alright there?
[00:24] <callan> alright I might as well get out of here then before I get awkwardly asked and then removed
[00:24] <callan> thanks for your help
[00:31] <niko> MenZa: yes
[00:35] <MenZa> heh
[00:35]  * niko looks at hole with all cables
[00:48] <Flannel> Howdy Anacranom, how can we help you today
[00:48] <Anacranom> sorry, was just looking to see if iWolf was in here, he's giving bad/incorrect info...
[00:49] <wgrant> Anacranom: What in particular?
[00:50] <Anacranom> let me know if i was the one incorrect since the change to 9.10 i am not yet fully familiar with
[00:50] <wgrant> Are you talking about the root thing?
[00:51] <Anacranom> he told me "No" thath gksudo gedit... was not right way to edit the xorg.conf,,, that you needed root
[00:51] <Anacranom> and it went on from there untill i let the,,, well always let the last word go to... lol
[00:52] <Anacranom> wasn't trying to cause probs, just wanted to see if he was a new op or if i was wrong?
[00:53] <elky> Anacranom, he was wrong.
[00:54] <wgrant> Anacranom: You said 'or nano', without sudo. Perhaps he misinterpreted that.
[00:54] <wgrant> Other than that, his assertions about needing root were correct, if slightly unclear.
[00:54] <Anacranom> ok, because i can own up to it when i am, and can correct myself and give appologies,,, but I would always like to know the correct
[00:54] <Anacranom> maybe
[00:55] <elky> gksudo gedit is correct though, dont fret that.
[00:56] <Anacranom> well i said "or nano" as i noticed while i was typing the other guy suggested nano..
[00:56] <Anacranom> well anyway,, TY for your time
[02:53] <KB1JWQ> Guest13970 is nick changing and trolling a bit each time.
[02:53] <KB1JWQ> Fun to trace the lastlog on him.
[02:54] <wgrant> Yup.
[02:54] <wgrant> I'm watching.
[02:54] <KB1JWQ> wgrant: Ah, I leave it in your capable hands then. :-)
[03:12] <KB1JWQ> Heh, he's gotten worse, wgrant
[03:14] <tsimpson> hmm, the wiki has died
[03:14] <KB1JWQ> That's not good.
[03:15] <tsimpson> help.ubuntu.com is still up, most of the docs should be there
[03:16] <tsimpson> !search wiki.ubuntu.com
[03:16] <tsimpson> !search help.ubuntu.com
[03:17] <tsimpson> there must be more than that...
[03:18] <tsimpson> ah, it only returns 10 results
[03:22] <Flannel> tsimpson: help.ubuntu.com is where help docs go, wiki.ubuntu.com is where team stuff happens
[07:19] <dholbach> good morning
[08:57] <jussi01> !search grub
[08:57] <jussi01> !grub2
[08:57] <jussi01> !no, grub2 is <reply>GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager in Karmic. For more information and troubleshooting on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
[08:58] <jussi01> !grub2 > jordan_u
[08:58] <jussi01> hiya Jordan_U
[08:58] <Jordan_U> Hi
[08:59] <jussi01> Jordan_U: something we can help with?
[09:00] <Jordan_U> Just wanted to discuss whether having a specific !grub15 is a good idea
[09:00] <jussi01> !scope | Jordan_U
[09:01] <Jordan_U> I origionally wanted to add it before I added that section to the wiki page
[09:01] <Jordan_U> I guess it makes less sense now that I have
[09:01] <jussi01> :)
[09:01] <jussi01> Jordan_U: youve gone about it correctly, by adding it to the wiki
[09:02] <Jordan_U> I agree with you now that I think about it, so thank you.
[09:32] <KB1JWQ> FYI, Avash has been booted for trolling a number of channels earlier.
[09:32] <KB1JWQ> Seems on topic in #ubuntu, but figured I'd throw that out there.
[09:54] <ikonia> eyes are open
[09:55] <ikonia> avash has been a problem in #ubuntu before
[11:49] <jussi01> [13:46:46] <Riddell> that'll be the archive open
[11:49] <jussi01> Thoughts on whether we should now re-open #ubuntu+1?
[11:50] <bazhang> sparr would insist on it!  :)
[11:50] <elky> you're going to have a hard time if you dont.
[11:51] <jussi01> hrm, I disagree. still think we should be waiting on alpha 1. but meh...
[11:51] <jussi01> hrm
[11:52] <jussi01> maybe I change my mind...
[11:52] <jussi01> [13:50:33] <Riddell> there's only three alphas this time, and two betas
[11:53] <elky> jussi01, if you dont, we'll just direct every person who asks for +1 to PM you directl.
[11:54] <topyli> i think the idea is to release a working system, so the beta period is long
[11:54] <bazhang> #jussi+1
[11:54] <topyli> #jussi+01
[11:54] <bazhang> hehe
[11:54]  * jussi01 declines to join...
[11:54] <jpds> Lucid is open NOW.
[11:54] <bazhang> :0
[11:54] <jpds> See -devel.
[11:54] <jussi01> jpds: thanks for repeating...
[11:55] <elky> jpds, read up, dear
[11:55] <jpds> jussi01: You are welcome.
[11:58]  * jpds finishes his coffee.
[12:12] <jussi01> oh dear. we are going to have a lot of openweek# in -classroom this week.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[12:30] <topyli> oh and a session on behavioral irc research
[13:47] <Amaranth> People keep joining #ubuntu-classroom-chat and asking #ubuntu-like questions
[13:48] <pleia2> Amaranth: I've just been explaining things to them
[13:48] <pleia2> it happens :)
[14:06] <jrib> topyli: hrmm, what's that about?
[14:07] <topyli> jrib, i just mangled the topic of jussi's irc talk on thursday
[15:56] <tsimpson> @channel #ubuntu+1 plugins.PackageInfo.defaultRelease lucid
[15:58]  * jpds adds lucid to ubot2 and ubot4.
[16:00] <jpds> OK, this could be an issue
[16:02] <tsimpson> I just copied the karmic.list and karmic-backports.list and run sed -i 's/karmic/lucid/g' lucid*
[16:02] <tsimpson> *using archive.u.c rather than a local mirror
[16:02] <jpds> Yeah, that's what I did, but now I'm out of diskspace, re: -irc.
[16:02] <tsimpson> ah
[16:03] <Amaranth> oh, are we opening it now?
[16:03] <Amaranth> it seems the toolchain is done, lucid is open for normal uploads
[16:03] <tsimpson> Amaranth: the archive is open, but it's pretty much just karmic atm
[16:06] <Amaranth> tsimpson: I hope to get a rather major change to compiz uploaded to lucid this week so changes are starting to happen :)
[16:07] <tsimpson> I know, but it's not exactly "usable" now is it ;)
[17:03]  * MenZa pokes Amaranth 
[18:27] <tsimpson> voyager1: how can we help you?
[18:27] <voyager1> no problem
[18:28] <tsimpson> if you don't have an issue we'd request you part this channel, so we know who needs help
[18:28] <tsimpson> !idle
[20:24] <ikonia> fyi: crude - aka derek_smart appears to be a regular in #archlinux-offtopic now, shock horror, stop the presses
[23:13]  * genii-around slurps a coffee
[23:19] <ikonia> is #ubuntu+1 open yet ?
[23:19] <ikonia> I thought it was, it appears not to be
[23:20] <ikonia> any thoughts on clearing u-r-p yet?
[23:29] <mneptok> IIRC, it was cleared a few days back.
[23:29] <ikonia> lots in it now
[23:32] <Pici> its +if #ubuntu-offtopic
[23:32] <Pici> when it gets smaller we'll kick the rest of the people out
[23:34] <mneptok> Pici: why not now?
[23:34] <jpds> Err, dudes.
[23:34] <jpds> -bugs.
[23:34] <Pici> ugh
[23:34]  * Pici checks the bantracker
[23:34] <jpds> Just saying.
[23:35] <Pici> jpds: thanks for the heads up
[23:35] <Pici> mneptok: Because we had discussed earlier that we'd do it later ;)
[23:35] <mneptok> ack
[23:36] <Pici> Also, its never a good sign when I go to search on a name on the bantracker and theres already an autocomplete for it.
[23:37] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[23:39] <nalioth> mneptok: not cleared, just closed
[23:40] <Pici> Actually, I can't seem to find a ban for limcore in -bugs, although there are ones for #u and #u-offtopic
[23:40] <ikonia> he's not banned from -bug
[23:45]  * genii-around ponders this tetrahedral head apparel
[23:46] <Flannel> genii-around: It's important to always have 1d4 at your disposal
[23:47] <genii-around> Geez, AD&D