[00:16] JontheEchidna: I think that HelpingKubuntu page should also be moved into the /Kubuntu and add the toolbox and all [00:17] the /Kubuntu/ namespace === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [01:56] yuriy: to be clear, apachelogger added that url. I added the merge one [01:56] though I do agree with the sentiment === Guest87280 is now known as foursixnine === foursixnine is now known as santiago-ve === santiago-ve is now known as Guest94911 === Guest94911 is now known as santiago-ve === santiago-ve is now known as foursixnine === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [04:51] So if a Mac/Ubuntu user with a reasonable amount of technical knowledge and a sense for promotion wanted to help out with Kubuntu and Project Timelord, what should they do? [04:52] Show up here and say they wanted to help. [04:52] Well, I've done that bit. :-) [04:54] So what can I do? [05:00] morning [05:01] what is kerneloops? [05:01] package [05:01] ok, got it [05:01] Description: kernel oops tracker [05:01] however, I saw this on upgrade: [05:01] update-rc.d: warning: kerneloops stop runlevel arguments (0 1 6) do not match LSB Default-Stop values (1) [05:01] is it ok? [05:02] markey: yes. [05:02] jwisser: I'd ask apachelogger or JontheEchidna. I'm not up on the details. [05:04] Okay. I'm going to offer my first piece of advice, then, which is that everyone in this channel should know exactly who or what document to send people like me to. :-) [05:05] * ScottK agrees. [05:05] jwisser: There is https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development [05:06] yay, new Chromium builds [05:06] * markey hugs apachelogger [05:09] ScottK: Heh. I shouldn't have walked into a devel list and said "reasonable amount of technical knowledge". Sorry about that. I'm comfortable on the command line in any *nix, but that's about as far as my knowledge goes. I'm looking to learn everything about Kubuntu (which I know means a lot of reading and lurking), but I'm primarily interested in helping with marketing and promotion and building a coherent vision. [05:10] jwisser: That's excellent. We've got very little of that now and we need it. [05:10] Which, judging by the Project Timelord specs and my previous experiences with Kubuntu, is needed. [05:10] Agreed. [05:11] ScottK: Is there anyone in here involved in that aspect of things who I should start by talking to? [05:11] We've got essentially no marketing team, so be prepared to be in charge very quickly. [05:11] jwisser: ryanakca is the webmaster for kubuntu.org. That's one person. [05:12] jwisser: We did have a discussion while working on the timelord stuff about what our target audience is. === vorian is now known as v [05:13] Our aim is: 0 - KDE fanatics, 1 - home users that like what KDE gives them, 2 - KDE oriented geeks that want to use KDE at work, but need to work in a corporate IT environment, 3 - (and we aren't to this one yet, really) small business that want to migrate away from windows. [05:14] The last one is important because there's a reasonable business in helping people do that and that should help people interesting in developing Kubuntu have a solid business basis for doing so. === v is now known as vorian [05:14] ::nods:: Speaking as someone who's just broken up with GNOME, is there any interest in pursuing the disenchanted from other environments? [05:14] I assume that's a sort of secondary push at best. [05:15] Certainly, but we don't necessarily focus on poaching Gnome. We know who the real enemy is. [05:15] ::laughs:: Fair enough. [05:15] Is the idea with small business to be their server or their point of sale? [05:16] Their office and maybe POS. I have a notion of a linkage to Ubuntu Server and being their sever too. [05:16] sever/server [05:16] There is Kolab that provides server side integration with KDE, but we are doing essentially nothing with it today. [05:16] We also have Kubuntu Netbook Edition. [05:17] ::nods:: That's beyond what I know right now, so I'll need to do some reading. [05:17] That's new this cycle and just a tech preview. [05:17] It has a slightly different target. [05:17] Ah, yes. I've only experimented with the Ubuntu Netbook Remix. I'm curious to see what KNE has to offer. [05:17] We want the enthusiasts, but we also want OEM's trying to offer something different. [05:17] That will also generate revenue to feed into development to make Kubuntu better. [05:18] Is the expectation to have a polished release for 10.04? [05:18] One advantage that we have right now, is that if you want a KDE based netbook distro, we have the only one. [05:18] yes. [05:18] And, I have to say, that's a big question—what kind of marketing budget is there? [05:18] * ScottK is doing an openweek session on it tomorrow. [05:19] We can poach IT resources from Canonical, but in terms of money for advertising and stuff, none currently. If we had a good plan, we might convince Canonical. [05:19] Kubuntu is pretty radically different than Ubuntu in how it's run. [05:20] ::nods:: [05:20] It has significant contributions from Canonical that make the distro possible, but most of the work is in the community's hands and most of the decision making too. [05:20] Here's the thing: I've never liked Kubuntu much because, from my point of view as a Mac user, it ships broken. [05:20] But Project Timelord sounds like a serious effort to fix that. [05:20] It is [05:21] This is the right time too, as we are coming back from the dead after the KDE 4 transition. [05:21] And that's why I'd like to be involved right now. I wouldn't be here if that hadn't been on the front page. I would love to see Kubuntu get its act together and kick some ass. [05:22] Welcome. [05:22] ::big grin:: Very cool. [05:24] Tell you what—it's just past midnight for me and I need to get some writing done before I crash, but I'm going to pull 9.10 and the KNE overnight and install and start playing with them tomorrow, plus start doing some of the reading/catching up I'm going to need to do. [05:24] OK. [05:24] I'll be in here as much as I can to soak up some knowledge. [05:24] * ScottK nods [05:24] A lot of the brain power is in Europe, so sleeping now. [05:24] Ah! Kubuntu is heavily Europe-based? [05:25] It's worldwide, but yes. [05:25] Roughly equal US/Europe and a few from elsewhere. [05:25] * jwisser nods. [05:26] It's going to be hard to break my IM habits for IRC. :-P [05:26] But thanks for the welcome! I'm looking forward to working on this. [05:27] No problem. Glad to have more hands on the problem. [05:27] Particularly to work in an area that I know I have very limited capability in. [05:30] It's gonna be good. [06:15] duuno if this is relevant to Timelord but asian input in KDE is broken since 4.0 and it started working recently (using IBus) but we need a sensible tool for showing current input method (input method panel for Plasma uses XIM AFAIK) and a patch to make Qt4 use IBus by default (currently XIM is selected as a input method) [06:28] * Quintasan is out, time to school [09:00] yo, this is great: [09:00] Ubuntu sent us a giant package of CDs [09:01] with no recpient specified [09:01] we had to guess [09:01] (there are several families living here) [09:01] * markey thinks CDs are best used as Frisbees :p [09:01] actually it only says Loc. Switzerland, my name as the contact for the Swiss Team is not on it [09:02] Riddell: I will send a mail to ship-it because of that, that might well work in a small village like here, but in other countries the CDs will simply not get through === Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_ [10:12] * Riddell snoozesdeb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/staging/ubuntu karmic main [10:12] what the heck? [10:12] ** please test 4.3.3 from staging deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/staging/ubuntu karmic main [10:16] agateau: bug has been getting quite a few reports upstream [10:16] bug 466700 [10:16] Launchpad bug 466700 in plasma-widget-indicatordisplay "crash in libindicate" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/466700 [10:17] Riddell: /me reads [10:21] Riddell: did you know about http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/FirefoxIntegration . [10:21] Riddell: we should ahve a look at this I guess [10:39] Tonio_: yes we know about them [10:39] Riddell: hum is that incompatible and can't we use them ? [10:48] Tonio_: I believe debfx has packages in his PPA [10:51] Riddell: right, testing [10:56] Riddell: have you ever reproduced bug 466700? [10:56] Launchpad bug 466700 in plasma-widget-indicatordisplay "crash in libindicate" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/466700 [10:56] Riddell: it works pretty darn well... [10:56] Riddell: dialog boxes and mimetypes, which are the 2 main problems seem to work [10:57] Riddell: I'll play with this a little bit and eventually we should get those for lucid [10:57] at least from within a kubunfox metapackage [10:57] agateau: no, and I couldn't see a clear pattern for what would cause it in the various bug reports upsteram [10:58] Riddell: and we don't have libindicate-dbg package to help :/ [10:58] Tonio_: it's not a meta package, it's patches to firefox [10:58] Riddell: [10:58] agateau: well no, that's why apport is useful [10:58] oups... those patches to check for a new lib, which is a new package [10:59] Riddell: this means that when packaged properly, once firefox is patched, it won't change anything as long as the kmozillahelper package ain't install [10:59] so a metapackage that would install firefox + kmozillahelper could be interesting, don't you think ? [10:59] Riddell: those pathces don't change firefox default behavior [11:00] Tonio_: I'm not the one who needs to be convinced, asac is [11:00] Riddell: yep, I know ;) [11:00] Riddell: I'll try to convince him then :) [11:02] Riddell: can you remind me of the guy who made the patches for screen backlight osd ? [11:02] Riddell: that's very nice, what I wanted and integrated the way you wanted to [11:03] Riddell: so I'd like to help for the other keycodes [11:03] especially since this can go upstream [11:06] Tonio_: debfx [11:07] Riddell: oki same guy.... I think I'll have to work closely with him during lucid [11:07] Riddell: although my n°1 priority this time is the samba sharing [11:07] I want it for lucid.... not acceptable that kde doesn't handle this atm [11:16] Riddell: any info on an eventual port of the ubuntu software store to kde ? [11:18] Tonio_: what for? [11:18] Riddell: get a decent package manager ? [11:18] Riddell: kpackagekit still has it's problems... [11:19] Riddell: and it looks that this is our main issue for...... too long [11:19] agateau: "indicator display" = worst plasmoid name ;-) [11:19] i had to follow your link to even find it in the add applets dialog [11:20] Riddell: kpackagekit still is unusable for my mother,although it is a nice replacement for adept [11:20] Nightrose: I have to agree :/ [11:20] agateau: who came up with that crap then? :D [11:20] Nightrose: that would be me [11:20] haha ok [11:20] fix it! :D [11:20] Nightrose: was not inspired this day [11:20] Nightrose: I'd rather fix the crashers first [11:21] hehe fair enough [11:21] Riddell: we should have at least the apt:/ protocol and a gnome app-install/software store equivalent imho... [11:21] Riddell: but that won't make it until canonical helps [11:22] and all new devs started by ubuntu increase the feature gap between ubuntu/kubuntu unfortunatelly [11:23] Riddell: everytime I read kubnutu reviews, the same big problem is mentionned : poor package manager :-( [11:23] we have apturl-kde [11:24] porting software store to KDE wouldn't be too hard if someone wanted to do it, although I'd rather it was done in a cross distro way with a nice frontend to kpackagekit [11:25] Riddell: oh !!!!! I didn't figure out apturl :) [11:25] nice [11:26] Riddell: then let's just say we miss the old adept-installer then... [11:27] we've always said we want an application based installer, we've speced it out in the past, rgreening has looked into it [11:28] Riddell: my intention was never to critisize :) just it's not there... [11:28] Riddell: sure I could have help on that point.... rgreening did a lot recently... [11:28] Riddell: maybe we should consider this a priority for lucid... [11:29] Riddell: we have a lot more people that can code now that in the past, that's an opportunity to improve on that point [11:29] I'll try to get involved on that this time, since I'll have more time available, and will not travell that much [11:30] new things shouldn't be a priority for lucid, it's LTS, we need to focus on quality [11:31] Riddell: although I agree, addressing tremendous issues like this can also be a matter of quality [11:31] Riddell: maybe a new app shouldn't be the priority, but eventually get rgreening's work on kpackagekit finished could be considered [11:32] Riddell: cause most of what is criticized in kubnutu isn't a matter of stability or packaging, it's more a lack of feature... [11:32] we get our share of critisism for stability and packaging too [11:33] Riddell: that's obvious, I agree, maybe I just look at least from within my eyes and tend to get a different feeling :) [11:34] Riddell: appart from that what I enjoy right now is that most reviews tend to agree that kubuntu progressed a lot the last 2 releases.... [11:34] Riddell: definately going with kde upstream and minimum kde patches was the good way to go [11:35] we also get our share of reviews saying kubuntu adds nothing to upstream, cannae win :) [11:35] Riddell: which isn't false looking at what opensuse does [11:36] Riddell: but we do a lot more that in the past [11:36] Riddell: criticizing ubuntu/kubuntu/*buntu is very common nowadays [11:36] Riddell: people don't like projects that get some success [11:37] Riddell: you want to win -> that's positive [11:37] you "won" -> you are the enemy [11:37] that's life... french linux boards are criticizing ubuntu for whatever is done... [11:43] Hello, is it possible to develop Firefox KDE integration so that it uses Dolphins file associations? (is that mime types?) [11:45] MelisU: I just discussed about that, check : deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/debfx/firefox-kde/ubuntu karmic main [11:45] MelisU: dist-upgrade and install kmozillahelper package [11:45] MelisU: restart firefox, it'll work [11:45] Riddell: I think the crasher is about to be fixed [11:46] Riddell and Tonio_: Since we ship the branded Firefox and accept the view that Mozilla corps trademark license means we have to ask permission to patch Firefox, It's not just asac that needs convincing. It's also mozilla corp. [11:47] ScottK: or convince Mark to ship under another name :) [11:47] Tonio_: Way cool, do you travel to the future and read minds? :) [11:47] That too. [11:47] ScottK: which ever is easier to achieve [11:47] ScottK: somehow suse get away with it [11:47] Riddell: Not sure if they got permission or don't care. I think Novell has more lawyers than us. [11:48] Novell is certainly more in the legal news anyway. [11:49] MelisU: just coincidence :) [11:50] ScottK: hum, well opensuse does it, and also ships with the mozilla trademarks [11:50] ScottK: I wouldn't be surprized it novell/mozilla would even make the patches upstream [11:50] Tonio_: Sure, but it's a step Canonical will need to take as well. [11:50] ScottK: those aren't harmfull patches anyway, more or less new files and a couple of tests [11:51] ScottK: I agree [11:51] ScottK: asac may kno more on that point [11:51] * ScottK snoozes. [11:51] ScottK: but firefox is such a nightmare to use with kde... [11:51] Tonio_: That would be a great great addition to the Kubuntu Firefox installer [11:51] Tonio_: Agreed, but Konqueror is such a nightmare to use with the web. [11:51] ScottK: talking about user exeprience if I were a new kubuntu user, I would consider this a showstopper issue [11:52] MelisU: I agree, but as this requires to patch firefox, it's not that easy to get it done... [11:52] ScottK: arora by default for lucid + nice firefox integration would make is a lot better I suspect [11:53] ScottK: do you think we'll still ship with konqueror this time ? === agateau is now known as agateau|lunch [11:57] ScottK: I know your feeling and I agree.... we should stop shipping with konqueror as default browser... [11:58] ScottK: it's like microsoft shipping with IE6.... or 5 [11:58] yeah, it sadly has regressed lately [11:58] seems more and more sites stop working correctly with it :( [11:58] not any of the 10 major websites do work correctly with it, therefore, despite being a decent engine and going with the standards, it's a useless app now [11:58] Sput: javascript is the problem [11:58] not khtml itself [11:58] probably, yes [11:59] anyway, with qt4.6 supporting java in webkit, arora might be the replacement we all are waiting for [11:59] I find myself always having an arora window for certain pages by now [11:59] * jussio1 hopes nokia sorts something with it... [11:59] * jussio1 just uses firefox. [11:59] jussio1: khtml is dead, webkit has won the battle [11:59] actually I should try rekonq again [11:59] Sput: not as well maintained as arora I'd say [11:59] Tonio_: so what about something like rekonq? [12:00] hehe [12:00] Tonio_: yeah, but arora still lacks KDE integration [12:00] jussio1: it there was the same community that arora has built i'd say yes [12:00] Sput: it has the basics [12:00] Sput: file system, mimetypes, dialog boxes [12:00] yeah it's improving :) [12:00] even has proper session management [12:00] it should get kwallet, I agree, but for most people the integration is not that bad [12:01] and I prefer partial integration and browse facebook... [12:01] I think it has issues here with focus stealing prevention and stuff like that [12:01] Sput: rekonq ain't that bad, but I don't see this app get adblock in the future for example [12:01] Sput: yeah it has [12:01] Sput: but it's improving very quickly [12:01] I had it as a default for a while, but clicking on links caused it to open in the background, and the launch feedback in the panel to go on forever [12:02] plus jobs not being finished in the notification area [12:02] Sput: and lots of problems are due to qtwebkit, which should be fixed in 4.6 [12:02] things like that killed the experience for me :) [12:02] but I keep trying, of course [12:02] the rendering is great [12:11] so anyone tested 4.3.3 yet? [12:12] Riddell: is it ppa'd? [12:12] Riddell: I am willing to test. Where is the ppa? [12:12] 10:12 < Riddell> ** please test 4.3.3 from staging deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/staging/ubuntu karmic main [12:14] mpf, arora should be able to read konq's bookmarks without crapping out though -.- [12:15] Riddell: Installing now on my 9.10 EeePC 901 [12:16] Riddell: upgrading now :) [12:16] Is KDE in Kubuntu vanilla KDE.org KDE? [12:17] no [12:18] jussio1: What are the major differences? [12:19] We should have a wiki page on that, if we don't already. [12:19] yeah, agreed [12:19] bit hard off the top of your head [12:19] Riddell: 4.3.3 installed without a hitch [12:20] Riddell: Log out / log in? Reboot? What next? [12:20] * ScottK delegates making of the wiki page to jussio1. [12:21] ScottK: not going to happen for at least 4-6 weeks. [12:21] BTW I really like the Timelord stuff, guys. [12:21] * jussio1 is attempting to finish his thesis, so anything new isnt going to happen until thats done [12:21] and girls :O [12:22] Sput: krunner should parse arora bookmarks too.... I have a friend of mine working on that right now [12:22] Tonio_: yeah, but I'd like to import my bookmarks file from konq into arora [12:22] so far, it craps out when trying that [12:22] ah... [12:22] well, last time I checked :) [12:22] even though it claims to support that format [12:24] Error when loading bookmarks on line 7, column 51: [12:24] Namespace prefix 'bookmark' not declared [12:37] JontheEchidna: where did I add the helpingkubuntu url? [12:38] Riddell: I rebooted and everything seems fine with 4.3.3 [12:38] 4.3.3 o.O [12:38] o/ [12:39] MelisU: great [12:39] jussio1: how's 4.3.3 for you? [12:39] MelisU: oh, did you install the new plasma-widget-networkmanager too? [12:39] Riddell: havent restarted x, but install went fine [12:40] Riddell plasma-widget-networkmanager? Nope. ppa? [12:40] MelisU: same PPA [12:40] plasma-widget-networkmanagement [12:40] Riddell: I just aptitude full-upgraded .. lets see [12:41] MelisU: never mind, looks like it didn't get uploaded [12:42] Riddell: kk, I want it though. network manager isn't auto connecting for me :) [12:47] MelisU: I don't think that's changed [12:47] ok let's move 4.3.3 over to updatse [12:49] * ghostcube still is on wicd :) doesnt trust knetwork manager hehe [12:49] but is 4.3.3 to be in staging ? [12:49] ah update [12:49] sorry [12:50] I'm moving it to kubuntu backports [12:50] ideally it would go into karmic-proposed and -updates [12:50] yeah [12:50] why arent you going with that? [12:51] * seele blinks [12:51] is NOOB a folder used in /tmp during the upgrade process? [12:52] seele: come again? o.O [12:52] whats NOOB [12:52] sounds lika an trojan for dummies [12:52] :D [12:52] !noob [12:52] Acronyms or statements like noob, jfgi, stfu, or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period. [12:52] hehe [12:52] jussio1: needs tech board approval [12:53] Riddell: ahh, right. [12:53] seele: upgrader runs in a randomly named directory in /tmp [12:53] seele: go buy a lottery ticket, you got lucky... [12:53] randomly named noob, jfgi, stfu, or rtfm [12:54] :) [12:54] seele@sebastien:/tmp/tmpN0O0B0$ [12:54] lol [12:54] seele: nice :P [12:54] i saw it flash for a second and was like "wait, what was that?" [12:54] anyway, Im off. [12:54] laters all. [12:55] * seele waves [12:55] Riddell: please ping when 4.3.3 hits backports. [13:01] apachelogger: oh, I guess it was somebody else. Since you were rewriting all the wikis I assumed it was you [13:01] JontheEchidna: were? [13:02] the channel topic [13:02] well, I didnt add it anywere unless I was on crack and dont remember [13:02] yeah, that was not me :P [13:04] lol [13:10] speaking of random wiki pages I have no idea what https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/TutorialsDay is about [13:12] Riddell, apachelogger, JontheEchidna: jwisser showed up last night and is interested in Kubuntu marketing. I warned him he might end up in charge very quickly. [13:13] Riddell: me neither [13:13] JontheEchidna, Riddell: timelord needs to establish a wiki spec [13:13] like have all kubuntu pages be part of a kubuntu category [13:14] or link them to some central overview page [13:14] currently the wiki is unable to manage content wise [13:14] One catagory to rule them all. [13:14] * apachelogger asks jwisser to poke him when back [13:18] JontheEchidna: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development now with pix [13:18] and linx [13:18] fanceh [13:20] hm [13:20] not fancy enough for the dictat0r it seems :| [13:21] lulz === agateau|lunch is now known as agateau [13:42] apachelogger: I'm here for a brief moment, but I have a meeting in twenty. [13:44] oh wellz [13:44] jwisser_: any questions? [13:45] apachelogger: As I said last night, I have some reading to do before I consider myself in a position to ask a lot of questions. I guess the only questions are: 1) Is there really no one doing any marketing/promotion right now? and 2) There's really no money at all for promotion? [13:47] jwisser_: 1) "the german dudes" (aka the team of kubuntu-de.org) is doing conference presence, they usually maintain a booth at the larger linux/floss fairs/conferences in germany .. other than that there is pretty much nothing going on in promotion, let alone marketing [13:47] JontheEchidna: Kubuntu/LucidKDEMerges doesn't point to Kubuntu/LucidPatchReview, I think filling in the patch review should be part of the merge [13:47] Riddell: sounds sensible [13:48] as should sending a review of our delta with debian to debian [13:48] jwisser_: 2) since there was no one who worked on it, we never reallly to get hold of some ... emonkey just the other day recommended that we should open up some donation service, I suppose if we can do and actually do that, money from donations could flow into promotional efforts as well === MelisU_ is now known as MelisU [13:49] apachelogger: It would be nice to have something to work with. Having a lot of evangelical users is definitely nice, but money tends to make things flow more smoothly. [13:51] jwisser_: well, we need a strong concept for that ... either way we have to talk this over with canonical, since they own the kubuntu trademark, so having a good concept is what we should start with [13:51] apachelogger: And that's where I need to do some reading and lurking. I want a very clear idea of what the Kubuntu community wants. [13:52] sounds very reasonable [13:52] Oh, another question: how badly do we want to go after small businesses? [13:52] In other words, are we willing to use a few hardline KDE-bleeding-edge-users in order to get small business interested? [13:53] jwisser_: I think that's the next set of users to attack after we get our basic user base in order. [13:53] Because if so, priority number one needs to be stability, stability, perceived stability. [13:53] jwisser_: With the next release being an LTS release, hopefully we can provide that. [13:53] Bingo. [13:54] But that's been my issue with Kubuntu in the past. The internals may be stable as all hell, but if the visuals don't represent that, your average (l)user and especially your small business people don't want any part of it. [13:57] apachelogger: I need to go to a meeting, but I'll be in and out all day. Sorry about my double presence; I forgot to log my home machine out before I left this morning. [13:58] no problemo [13:59] * apachelogger closes knode and starts ranting about people being unable to use proper subjects and read previous posts with similar subject [14:03] a couple typos in GettingInvolved/Development: "get to know with Debian's finest", "thounds of people". cute page! [14:05] dpm: ultimate translations fix is still to be worked out, so that should not be taken too serious at this point, depends on too many variables that need to be poked [14:05] (only skimmed your mail) [14:05] apachelogger: the problem with a donation service is that there is the reality : Kubuntu is a community driven distro, and what people believe in : There's a company that drives the project [14:06] apachelogger: although kubuntu is more a mix between those 2 visions... [14:06] apachelogger, ok, thanks for the info. I just thought I'd give my view [14:06] apachelogger: I'm sure that opening a donation service would be very hardly criticized reguarding to this... [14:07] apachelogger: don't you think ? [14:07] brb... [14:07] so you donate to the company that finances the server without making too much income out of kubuntu [14:08] hello, is there any place to get information about how to get a kubuntu developer (junior jobs?). I just read about project timelord, am a long-time kubuntu user and was wondering how I could participate. Also since I will finish my computer science master in < 1 month it is time to look for a job.. how is the situation with kubuntu regarding this? are you all working on kubuntu in your spare time or are there companies (canonical?) paying [14:08] you? .. many questions :) [14:08] apachelogger, and wanted to make sure that you guys know that the translations team is there to help with any of the issues === smarter_ is now known as smarter [14:08] smarter: hey ! [14:08] hey Tonio_ :) [14:09] dpm: I for one am aware of that, but there is only so much the translation team can do without having to digg into the sources to e.g. fix desktop file translations [14:10] there are issues at multiple levels, they might be closed pretty much for karmic but they will naturally re-appear since the way ubuntu's localization system works is the ultimate patch [14:10] and by definition patches are evil :P [14:11] the issue at large is too complex to define one single solution anyway [14:12] new kdevelop beta out, nice. [14:15] apachelogger, that might be partly addressed with the new focus of the LP team: upstream integration. The first step will be importing translations from src package branches with bzr imports, but they will first focus on intltool-based packages [14:15] so I'm not sure if this will be beneficial in the short term [14:15] to KDE src packages [14:16] don't think so, IIRC we only need to do magic in kde-l10n-* to get the imports going [14:16] evod: Welcom. [14:16] Welcome even [14:17] evod: How about https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development [14:17] dpm: that said, current import system contributes its parts... it imports all and any po/pot it can find, which forces us to add a custom rule to packages that include pot files that should not be imported [14:18] such as the hacks.pot in kdeartwork or where it was [14:18] right [14:18] there is no telling when which upstream will add a pot to the src of what application, so that issues can possibly come back again and waste translators time [14:18] ScottK: thanks, I just found it and I am browsing through [14:18] dpm: to just name one example :) [14:19] ScottK: what about the job-aspect? e.g. are you working fulltime for kubuntu? [14:19] evod: No. Almost all of us are here as volunteers. [14:22] wow! but bad news, I would really like to work fulltime for an open source project.. [14:22] but I guess the bigger companies like novell or canonical pick the most active contributors and pay them if they are lucky? [14:24] without any open source history it will be jolly hard to get a job to work on an open source project [14:24] They have hiring processes like any other company. Sometimes it results in people getting hired from the community, sometimes not. [14:24] unless you were manager at MS and know all them fancy MS strategies [14:25] common hiring question: "do I do internal promotion or look for some external applicant" [14:26] since an associated open source project can mostly be considered part of the company anyway, in terms of knowing your way around [14:28] evod: good questions, I was wondering about this too... same dilemmas (but +10 years programming experience :-) ) [14:29] :) the only thing I have is some Qt experience since I already did 2 projects with it.. but well. I guess I'm young and it's time to start contributing and looking for a "proper" job [14:29] some of u guys seem to be here practically full-time... how do u make a living? [14:30] Some are student. [14:30] student/students [14:30] I multi-task well. [14:30] so of us idle here during work [14:31] jjesse: hehe... so u get paid for contributing, only the sponsors don't know it :-) [14:34] <_Altaira_> Hi guys I would like to contribute to timelord project [14:35] holy guacamole [14:35] this is the best recruiting driver we've had in ages [14:35] :3 [14:37] Riddell: looks like you just had to ask <3 [14:38] kmail indicator patch submitted upstream http://reviewboard.kde.org/r/2060/ [14:38] * jjesse hasn't even had a chance to get caught up on projtect timeload [14:38] * agateau is looking for his bulletproof vest [14:39] agateau: have you e-mailed them too? I don't think reviewboard does anything much on its own [14:40] Riddell: if the kdepim group is setup like the kdelibs one, I hope it will send mails to kdepim mailing list [14:40] _Altaira_: what are you interested in doing? [14:40] what programming stuff r u kubuntu devs working on that ins't KDE? [14:41] <_Altaira_> jon: code or documentation [14:43] <_Altaira_> jon: translation too [14:43] Documentation is in need of attention in both KDE and Kubuntu [14:43] Riddell: Are we preparing any blueprints for UDS? [14:44] Our documentation coordinator, nixternal, is away cycling around the US now, but maybe jjesse can show you the ropes [14:44]