| aim1159 | seth556: go here http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html put the Location is UTC/GMT and set up the date and time (date is important due to daylight savings) | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| aim1159 | then press show results in world clock and you can see a table. find yor place there. | 00:01 |
| === keffie_jayx_ is now known as keffie_jayx | ||
| Xiella | Ack, that's 4 am for me | 00:22 |
| sakekasi | hello | 00:29 |
| sakekasi | when is the next lecture? | 00:29 |
| sakekasi | (in how many minutes) | 00:29 |
| === EryxNuri is now known as Ampere | ||
| akgraner | Sakarias, not for hours yet... | 00:30 |
| === Ampere is now known as EryxNuri | ||
| sakekasi | hello? | 00:31 |
| jef_ | hello | 00:31 |
| sakekasi | do you know in how many minutes the next lecture is? | 00:32 |
| pleia2 | sakekasi: 14.5 hours from now | 00:33 |
| sakekasi | thank you | 00:34 |
| EryxNuri | you Serious? | 00:34 |
| jpds | EryxNuri: Quite. | 00:34 |
| EryxNuri | damn . . . | 00:35 |
| qaz_ | howdy all | 01:26 |
| timbojimbo | hello? | 01:35 |
| timbojimbo | hey I am curios about a few packages that were installed during the upgrade to karma. the packages are desktopcouch, libmakick++2, libmagickcor2, and libmagickwand2. What are the packages and what do they do? | 01:37 |
| IdleOne | timbojimbo: please ask in #ubuntu | 01:38 |
| IdleOne | timbojimbo: you can also use /msg ubottu info package_name | 01:40 |
| timbojimbo | hey I am curios about a few packages that were installed during the upgrade to karma. the packages are desktopcouch, libmakick++2, libmagickcor2, and libmagickwand2. What are the packages and what do they do? | 01:48 |
| MenZa | timbojimbo: /msg ubottu info <packagename> | 01:55 |
| MenZa | timbojimbo: alternatively, apt-cache show <packagename> | 01:55 |
| timbojimbo | MenZa, yeah i did that but it didn't really clue me in too much as to what it does. i guess time to hit the wiki's | 01:56 |
| MenZa | apt-cache show packagename will be a lot more verbose than messaging ubottu | 01:56 |
| timbojimbo | appreciate it | 01:57 |
| dom___ | server | 02:09 |
| dom___ | hi. just installed Xchat under Hardy, and want to connect to this channel through it. can someone tell me what this network is? | 02:09 |
| MenZa | freenode, dom___ | 02:10 |
| MenZa | dom___: it may be referenced as "Ubuntu IRC Server" in xchat. | 02:10 |
| dom___ | thanks, Menza -- let me give that a shot | 02:10 |
| dom___ | i don't see either in the list of Networks - do I need to add it? | 02:11 |
| MenZa | Perhaps. | 02:11 |
| MenZa | It's called freenode - chat.freenode.net - on port 6667. | 02:11 |
| dom___ | it does have 'Ubuntu Servers' | 02:12 |
| Bradj47 | what's he trying to do? | 02:12 |
| MenZa | Add freenode. | 02:12 |
| MenZa | dom___: That might be it. | 02:12 |
| MenZa | Bradj47: to xchat. | 02:12 |
| Bradj47 | i thought it was in there by default | 02:13 |
| Bradj47 | it was either irc.freenode.net or irc.ubuntu.com | 02:13 |
| dom___ | hmm. i'll have to play around with it. so, what's the topic today? | 02:19 |
| ShaunPhilly | HI. So I'm having issues getting my Xubuntu to see my shared folders on a vista machine | 02:46 |
| ShaunPhilly | need to transfer some files | 02:47 |
| IdleOne | #xubuntu or #ubuntu for support ShaunPhilly | 02:49 |
| ShaunPhilly | x | 02:49 |
| akk | Maybe someone should set the topic ... people keep asking general questions here and in #u-c-c. | 02:50 |
| IdleOne | I would but I can't | 02:50 |
| ShaunPhilly | 9.10 | 02:50 |
| akk | yeah, Someone With Authority | 02:50 |
| IdleOne | ShaunPhilly: type /join #xubuntu and ask in there | 02:50 |
| running_rabbit07 | is there an class type things going on here? Or, is it ask a Q for an A? | 02:53 |
| IdleOne | running_rabbit07: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | 02:53 |
| running_rabbit07 | IdleOne: thanx for the link | 03:05 |
| s0n1c | Hey everyone. I just updated to ubuntu 9.10. I like what I see so far. but my touchpad on my laptop doesn't work. my usb mouse works, but the touchpad doesn't any quick fixes yet? | 03:36 |
| nalioth | s0n1c: support is in #ubuntu :) | 03:37 |
| running_rabbit07 | you may want to ask on #ubuntuforums | 03:37 |
| s0n1c | thanks you, sorry. I was told to go to this room | 03:38 |
| === openweek4__ is now known as LivenDie | ||
| === HI is now known as Guest81224 | ||
| bluregard | hello | 04:03 |
| bluregard | I hope everyone is well this evening | 04:03 |
| timinator94 | Hi what is so good about karmic | 04:23 |
| timinator94 | vs jaunty | 04:23 |
| timinator94 | Hi what is so good about karmic | 04:23 |
| openweek1 | my headphone is not working in in ubuntu..i have acer 5638 laptop.....i installed ubuntu 9.04.. | 04:43 |
| nalioth | openweek1: this isn't a support channel except by prior arrangement :/ | 04:45 |
| nalioth | openweek1: please use #ubuntu for support | 04:45 |
| darkchest | i have a toshiba laptop running 9.4... do you recommend i wait a little for upgrading issues to be resolved before upgrading myself? | 04:56 |
| MarkDude | nalioth, wrong channel please use #ubuntu for support | 05:00 |
| darkchest | k | 05:01 |
| darkchest | #ubuntu for support | 05:01 |
| darkchest | #ubuntu | 05:01 |
| MarkDude | oops darkchest please use #ubuntu for support , | 05:01 |
| darkchest | how do u moove from one channel to another? | 05:02 |
| MarkDude | right click on the > #ubuntu then click join channel | 05:02 |
| MarkDude | >>> #ubuntu <<< | 05:03 |
| MarkDude | if that wont work let me know | 05:04 |
| darkchest | nope... im using mozilla on 9.4 | 05:04 |
| darkchest | it just shows back, reload... | 05:04 |
| nigel_nb | darkchest: just click on it | 05:05 |
| darkchest | it opened | 05:05 |
| darkchest | thanks | 05:05 |
| nigel_nb | darkchest: no problem | 05:06 |
| darkchest | #exit | 05:23 |
| === openweek0 is now known as datamike | ||
| diC | distupgrade 9.04 - 9.10 stopped at 'bluez'-programm i restart the system but nnow get this error: "init: mountall main process (367) terminated with status 127" what can i do? | 05:45 |
| nigel_nb | diC: ask in #ubuntu | 05:46 |
| openweek0 | #karmic | 06:26 |
| gopi_ | hello all | 07:02 |
| gopi_ | Iam new to ubuntu | 07:03 |
| gopi_ | may I know how to play flah player ,..which is in swf extension | 07:04 |
| aan | Hello | 07:29 |
| DKcross | alguno habla español aquí? | 07:41 |
| z-itou16 | Dkcross | 07:43 |
| z-itou16 | ve a este canal | 07:43 |
| DKcross | z-itou16, hola | 07:43 |
| z-itou16 | #ubuntu-centroamerica-chat | 07:43 |
| DKcross | no yo se donde estoy :) | 07:43 |
| z-itou16 | aqui es solo en ingles | 07:44 |
| DKcross | mira mañana tengo mi tema | 07:44 |
| DKcross | y mi colaborador con la traducción no puede | 07:44 |
| DKcross | puedes ayudarme? | 07:44 |
| DKcross | yo tengo un inglés muy básico y iba a usar ayuda | 07:44 |
| z-itou16 | uyy me facinaria pero ahorita toy trabajando en proyecto de la universidad | 07:44 |
| DKcross | ah bueno, no importa gracias de toda forma | 07:44 |
| z-itou16 | trata en el channel que te di | 07:44 |
| Headbuster | hello | 07:45 |
| z-itou16 | #ubuntu-centroamerica-chat o #ubuntu-centroamerica | 07:45 |
| DKcross | ah, no man te digo mañana tengo mi conferencia en el open week | 07:45 |
| Headbuster | :P | 07:45 |
| DKcross | el viernes en el open week en español | 07:45 |
| DKcross | Headbuster, hello how are you? | 07:45 |
| Headbuster | Fine thank you! I am preparing to install ubuntu now :) | 07:46 |
| DKcross | sorry we are talking some private things Headbuster | 07:46 |
| DKcross | lol | 07:46 |
| DKcross | i just kidding man | 07:46 |
| Headbuster | Que tal :D | 07:46 |
| DKcross | Headbuster, are you kidding:| | 07:46 |
| Headbuster | What? | 07:46 |
| Headbuster | Why? | 07:46 |
| DKcross | Headbuster, entonces sos skpeaker? | 07:47 |
| DKcross | perdon, entonces hablas español | 07:47 |
| DKcross | ? | 07:47 |
| Headbuster | Si :D | 07:47 |
| DKcross | Headbuster, a bueno | 07:47 |
| DKcross | de donde eres? | 07:47 |
| Headbuster | Bulgaria | 07:47 |
| DKcross | tu si me puedes ayudar a traducir algunas cosas? estoy preparando mi tema para mañana | 07:47 |
| DKcross | bueno ahora más tarde. | 07:48 |
| Headbuster | Ok I will have to go now | 07:48 |
| DKcross | today i will talk about screencast | 07:48 |
| Headbuster | btw I am learning spanish at school | 07:48 |
| Headbuster | and I am not so good at it Lol | 07:48 |
| DKcross | ah... ok well dont worry | 07:48 |
| Headbuster | Time to install ubuntu! Bye :) | 07:49 |
| === openweek0 is now known as allx | ||
| asymptote | anyone here | 08:44 |
| shahan | hi all | 09:01 |
| shahan | any one here who can help me about connecting internet | 09:01 |
| shahan | ? | 09:01 |
| openweek5 | so tell us what is the problem | 09:01 |
| shahan | any one here who can help me to connect internet on my UBUNTU | 09:03 |
| d0wn | shahan: see #ubuntu for that | 09:03 |
| openweek5 | is anybody having trouble with wathing movies on divx afer upgrading to 9.10? | 09:03 |
| shahan | if any wants...please ... | 09:04 |
| asymptote | these questions | 09:04 |
| shahan | I am not facing problem | 09:04 |
| asymptote | are really for #ubuntu | 09:04 |
| asymptote | not the classroom | 09:04 |
| asymptote | or #ubuntu-forums | 09:04 |
| shahan | I have installed the version | 09:04 |
| shahan | 9.10 | 09:04 |
| d0wn | shahan this isn't the support channel | 09:04 |
| asymptote | shahan: we have no way of verifying that | 09:04 |
| asymptote | just because you say you installed it | 09:04 |
| asymptote | doesn't make it credible | 09:05 |
| asymptote | you could have any version installed and just be coming to the channel and saying you have 9.10 installed | 09:05 |
| d0wn | lol | 09:06 |
| openweek5 | OK sorry | 09:10 |
| openweek5 | I didn't understand what this chat was for... | 09:10 |
| asymptote | well, sorry or not the incident will have to be reported | 09:10 |
| asymptote | this chat is for classroom instruction | 09:10 |
| asymptote | if you have questions about using ubuntu you need to go to #ubuntu | 09:11 |
| openweek5 | ok, thankyou | 09:11 |
| shahan | may I get any support channel address? | 09:14 |
| shahan | As I am a New user | 09:14 |
| asymptote | it's #ubuntu | 09:14 |
| ussher_ | i caught the "go here" sign on the forums http://ubuntuforums.org/ what is the | 09:15 |
| ussher_ | ubuntu open week about? | 09:15 |
| asymptote | how about you google it ? | 09:16 |
| ussher_ | thought id come here and see lots of questions and i could just watch.....seams quiet though | 09:16 |
| asymptote | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | 09:17 |
| asymptote | please read the documentation before asking questions. | 09:17 |
| hhh | alop2 | 09:33 |
| hhh | ade sesiapa disini | 09:33 |
| hhh | !!!! | 09:33 |
| hhh | hmmmm | 09:33 |
| hhh | let's party!!!! | 09:34 |
| riddlebox | karmic didn't really turn out the way it should've | 09:34 |
| riddlebox | why did they change the menus? | 09:34 |
| Treenaks | they did? | 09:34 |
| riddlebox | the new grub takes ages to load for me | 09:35 |
| riddlebox | well not ages, but takes much longer than the previous one. | 09:35 |
| riddlebox | I don't really like it. =( | 09:35 |
| asg8516 | Hey guys, what is this Ubuntu Open Week? | 10:18 |
| syngin01 | edumacation | 10:19 |
| asg8516 | I am quite a fan of the ingenious collaboration efforts in the Linux community...Could somebody tell me what is this Open Week all about? | 10:20 |
| AlanBell | asg8516: check the links in the /topic | 10:21 |
| asg8516 | Thanks for the input syngin01, could you please elaborate, (if time permits)? I like to listen to stories... | 10:21 |
| asg8516 | AlanBell: Since i'm new to ircs, couldyou tell me how to see /topic | 10:22 |
| AlanBell | just type /topic | 10:23 |
| asg8516 | I tried "/topic" | 10:23 |
| AlanBell | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | 10:23 |
| asg8516 | I tried that right now, but there was no output...(i'm using mIRC on windows) | 10:23 |
| AlanBell | that is the link | 10:24 |
| asg8516 | Thanks a lot Alan | 10:24 |
| asg8516 | I'll be back after a small intro | 10:24 |
| shimwha | Hi all - when does class begin ... lol | 10:40 |
| shimwha | hmmmm quiet classroom ... this one | 10:41 |
| z-itou16 | there is still a long time to begin sessions | 10:42 |
| z-itou16 | here | 10:42 |
| z-itou16 | check the schedules https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/ | 10:42 |
| shimwha | kewl ... | 10:42 |
| z-itou16 | and in case you need some help with UTC time format | 10:42 |
| z-itou16 | http://www.csgnetwork.com/utctimecalc.html | 10:43 |
| z-itou16 | i had some difficulties with time | 10:43 |
| z-itou16 | now i know the lesson :) | 10:43 |
| shimwha | good stuff - thanks for the info | 10:47 |
| shimwha | will return .. | 10:47 |
| BearBorg | :) | 10:50 |
| BearBorg | Hello all | 10:50 |
| BearBorg | anyone awake? | 10:50 |
| BearBorg | welcome back | 10:51 |
| BearBorg | Got a few quick questions if anyone has time | 10:51 |
| BearBorg | *headscratch* | 10:52 |
| cyberbob | hello | 10:53 |
| BearBorg | :) | 10:53 |
| BearBorg | hey | 10:53 |
| cyberbob | can I get help with 9.10 instalation in this channel ? | 10:54 |
| BearBorg | probably not at this time...... | 10:54 |
| BearBorg | everyone is sleeping I think | 10:54 |
| cyberbob | right :) | 10:56 |
| user101 | is this solved ???? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1300537 | 10:56 |
| user101 | i am planning to remove karmic | 10:57 |
| cyberbob | I have karmic on desktop (work excelent!) and on my Dell 1555 with GPU intel 8500, and after grub I have black screen, I think this is problem with X server, because I hear sound on starting kde | 10:59 |
| syngin01 | is there a recording / log of previous lessons? | 11:06 |
| syngin01 | found it on the website..thanks | 11:07 |
| indus | hi | 11:10 |
| indus | is school on? | 11:10 |
| === akgraner_ is now known as akgraner | ||
| rhkfin | indus: start in ~4 hours | 11:15 |
| rhkfin | starts | 11:15 |
| indus | oh | 11:15 |
| indus | who will teach | 11:15 |
| rhkfin | indus: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | 11:16 |
| manouche | win 16 | 11:19 |
| rhkfin | fail | 11:19 |
| manouche | :( | 11:20 |
| indus | thanks | 11:23 |
| indus | bye | 11:23 |
| === openweek0 is now known as lapinter | ||
| === openweek0 is now known as bejames | ||
| openweek5 | Hello Guys | 12:04 |
| Blizzerand | openweek5 : Howdy | 12:09 |
| craiganth | Hello, I have just recently installed 9.1 and have had nothing but trouble. The system constantly freezes for hours. No matter how long I wait for my PC will not respond. I am using the same PC that I used for Jaunty, I was pretty happy with it. | 13:05 |
| === openweek5_ is now known as vcalvo | ||
| craiganth | A little silent here. | 13:07 |
| indus | craiganth: hi | 13:07 |
| ScottK | craiganth: #ubuntu is the channel for help. | 13:07 |
| indus | craiganth: what is this room for? | 13:07 |
| ScottK | indus: Read /topic | 13:07 |
| craiganth | I am not real sure | 13:07 |
| === draco_ is now known as Jesi | ||
| indus | ScottK: that still doesnt say whatthis room is for | 13:12 |
| indus | ok i got a better answer from classroom chat, here some leaders will take sessions? | 13:12 |
| indus | ok i got anotehr confusing answer there | 13:12 |
| ScottK | Yes, in about two hours | 13:13 |
| indus | listen here and ask there | 13:13 |
| indus | doh | 13:13 |
| Alexandre1 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/ | 13:13 |
| Alexandre1 | here's the shedule | 13:13 |
| indus | craiganth: come to #UBUNTU for questions | 13:13 |
| craiganth | indus thanks | 13:14 |
| craiganth | Sorry for being a newbie to linux but could you direct me to #UBUNTU please. | 13:15 |
| lmentop | type /j #ubuntu | 13:15 |
| craiganth | #ubuntu | 13:16 |
| lmentop | you need the /j | 13:16 |
| indus | craiganth: just type /join #ubuntu | 13:17 |
| === ericG_ is now known as ericG | ||
| === lmentop_ is now known as lmentop | ||
| === openweek5_ is now known as X-Man | ||
| elliotsagan | exit | 14:14 |
| ruadh | Hi. I installed Ubuntu 9.10 last night, the only problem is it won't close down properly. I error message I get is as follows: [1570.004052] Buffer I/O on device loop0, logical block 1970924 Can anyone help? | 14:45 |
| yos | ruadh, you on wubi ? | 14:45 |
| pleia2 | ruadh: for support questions you'll want to /join #ubuntu | 14:46 |
| ruadh | yos, thanks for you're reply. What is wubi ? | 14:46 |
| pleia2 | we're starting the open week sessions in a few minutes :) | 14:46 |
| yos | ruadh, please go to #ubuntu | 14:46 |
| === mseymour is now known as mcsey | ||
| === openweek2 is now known as kat76 | ||
| jcastro | 10 minutes until we begin! | 14:50 |
| === SLACKWARE is now known as SLACKWARE_SR | ||
| sebsebseb | hi | 14:53 |
| jcastro | hi sebsebseb | 14:54 |
| sebsebseb | hi jcastro | 14:54 |
| mhall119|work | AppArmor first, right? | 14:54 |
| mhall119|work | not ask Mark | 14:54 |
| jcastro | yep | 14:55 |
| jcastro | Mark had to travel last minute so he won't be here until Friday | 14:55 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: Apparmor with John Johansen || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| jcastro | 5 minute warning! | 14:55 |
| jpds | jcastro: +m? | 14:56 |
| jcastro | yeah probably | 14:56 |
| jcastro | jjohansen, you can just paste questions from -chat into here to answer them | 14:56 |
| sebsebseb | jcastro: Travel where? | 14:57 |
| jcastro | I'm not sure | 14:57 |
| sebsebseb | oh ok | 14:57 |
| jjohansen | jcastro: thanks | 14:57 |
| jcastro | jjohansen, this is your first openweek isn't it? | 14:58 |
| jjohansen | yes | 14:59 |
| jcastro | This will be fun ... | 14:59 |
| jcastro | ok everyone, we'll get started now, I'd like to introduce John Johansen | 14:59 |
| jjohansen | thanks | 15:00 |
| jcastro | who will be talking about AppArmor for this session | 15:00 |
| jcastro | please introduce yourself and take it away! | 15:00 |
| jjohansen | My name is John Johansen and I am a Kernel Engineer for Canonical and a dev on the AppArmor project. | 15:00 |
| jjohansen | For those of you expecting the "Ask Mark" section it has been moved to Fri at 17:00 UTC | 15:00 |
| jjohansen | For those not familiar with AppArmor it is a mandatory access control (MAC) style security system. Basically it limits an application to a preset list of resources, | 15:00 |
| jjohansen | whether it is run as root or not. | 15:00 |
| jjohansen | Today I plan to walk through the basics of AppArmor, feel free to ask questions at anytime, though if they don't fit into the current discussion I may wait until later to answer them. | 15:01 |
| jjohansen | So MAC security means it always gets applied | 15:01 |
| jjohansen | the user doesn't get to change it | 15:01 |
| jjohansen | We are going to need a terminal open as AppArmor currently does not have | 15:02 |
| jjohansen | any GUI based tools. Applications >> Accessories >> Terminal | 15:02 |
| jjohansen | First up we will look do some basic introspection of AppArmor | 15:02 |
| jjohansen | In a terminal you can do aa-status | 15:03 |
| jjohansen | you should see | 15:03 |
| jjohansen | apparmor module is loaded. | 15:03 |
| jjohansen | You do not have enough privilege to read the profile set. | 15:03 |
| jjohansen | or even better sudo aa-status | 15:03 |
| jjohansen | which will ask you for your password and then provide a lot of information | 15:04 |
| jjohansen | apparmor module is loaded. | 15:04 |
| jjohansen | 12 profiles are loaded. | 15:04 |
| jjohansen | 12 profiles are in enforce mode. | 15:04 |
| jjohansen | /usr/lib/connman/scripts/dhclient-script | 15:04 |
| jjohansen | /usr/share/gdm/guest-session/Xsession | 15:04 |
| jjohansen | ... | 15:04 |
| jjohansen | The profiles reported here are the only things that AppArmor is going to confine (apply restrictions too) | 15:05 |
| jjohansen | Everything else on you system will run with standard unix DAC permissions | 15:06 |
| jjohansen | go under the hood a bit we can get the so of the same basic info that aa-status gives manually | 15:07 |
| jjohansen | sudo ps ax -Z | grep -v '^unconfined' | 15:07 |
| jjohansen | will list which process are confined and with which profile | 15:08 |
| jjohansen | while sudo cat /sys/kernel/security/apparmor/profiles | 15:08 |
| jjohansen | will list the profiles that are loaded into the kernel | 15:08 |
| jjohansen | aa-status is just much nicer, and more convient | 15:09 |
| jjohansen | if you type aa- and then hit tab twice you will see most of the apparmor commands | 15:09 |
| jjohansen | its a nice way to find the command you are looking for | 15:10 |
| jjohansen | now lets look at an actual apparmor profile | 15:10 |
| jjohansen | AppArmor profiles are stored in /etc/apparmor.d/ | 15:10 |
| jjohansen | if you do an ls /etc/apparmor.d/ | 15:10 |
| jjohansen | you should see the several files some of them with names similar to the profiles that were reported by aa-status | 15:11 |
| jjohansen | by convention the files in this directory use . to replace the / that appear in profile names | 15:12 |
| jjohansen | so usr.bin.evince is the file for the /usr/bin/evince profile | 15:12 |
| jjohansen | if you do sudo cat /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.tcpdump | 15:13 |
| jjohansen | you can see what a basic profile looks like | 15:13 |
| jjohansen | which is mostly just a listing of files and there access permissions | 15:14 |
| jjohansen | @{PROC}/bus/usb/ r, | 15:15 |
| akgraner | <sebsebseb> QUESTIONS: Do most Ubuntu users really need to know about AppArmor? I mean it's on by default and doing whatever it does in the background keeping later versions of Ubuntu a bit more secure, right? | 15:15 |
| jjohansen | for example is a rule granting read access to some proc files | 15:15 |
| jjohansen | good question, in general no | 15:15 |
| jjohansen | but some people are interested, so we aim to please | 15:16 |
| akgraner | <erUSUL> QUESTION; Heard that ubuntu will make SELinux (mainstream) first class citizen too. How this will affect AppArmor (which is not mainstream) in the future. Will both be supported and maantained in pararell ?? | 15:16 |
| jjohansen | well I am not sure what you mean by first class citizen | 15:17 |
| jjohansen | selinux is certainly supported | 15:17 |
| jjohansen | as for apparmor not being upstream, well there are efforts underway to correct that | 15:17 |
| jjohansen | all right, that seems it for questions atm | 15:19 |
| akgraner | <erUSUL> jjohansen: i mean that selinux was not the official supported MAC system it was (and is) AppArmor. Now SeLinux and AppArmor will be supported equally; or i am mistaken ? | 15:19 |
| jjohansen | I am not actual sure what selinux support level will be | 15:20 |
| jjohansen | so now that we have poked at the basics a bit lets turn to why people might want to know a little more about apparmor | 15:21 |
| jjohansen | since apparmor is a mac system it can stop applications from doing things | 15:22 |
| jjohansen | which can cause frustration | 15:22 |
| jjohansen | or confusion | 15:22 |
| jjohansen | or more likely both | 15:22 |
| jjohansen | so how do we check if apparmor is causing something to fail | 15:23 |
| jjohansen | well you need to look in the logs | 15:23 |
| jjohansen | if you are use a stock ubuntu install you can do either of | 15:23 |
| jjohansen | dmesg | 15:24 |
| jjohansen | or | 15:24 |
| jjohansen | sudo tail /var/log/messages | 15:24 |
| jjohansen | and check for apparmor reject messages | 15:24 |
| jjohansen | which look like | 15:24 |
| jjohansen | [42970.714105] type=1503 audit(1256931563.236:27): operation="open" pid=6640 parent=1887 profile="/bin/example" requested_mask="::r" denied_mask="::r" fsuid=1000 ouid=0 name="/tmp/testfile" | 15:24 |
| jjohansen | if you have auditd installed you are going to need to look in /var/log/audit/audit.log | 15:25 |
| jjohansen | the messages look pretty much the same | 15:25 |
| jjohansen | type=APPARMOR_DENIED msg=audit(1257334524.729:273753): operation="file_perm" pid=15819 parent=15713 profile="/bin/example" requested_mask="w::" denied_mask="w::" fsuid=0 ouid=0 name="/tmp/testfile" | 15:25 |
| jjohansen | in the first example apparmor is block a read access to the file /tmp/file | 15:26 |
| jjohansen | err make that /tmp/testfile | 15:26 |
| jjohansen | in the second example it is block a write access | 15:27 |
| jjohansen | the profile in both is /bin/example | 15:27 |
| jjohansen | and you could open up the profile file in /etc/apparmor.d/ | 15:28 |
| jjohansen | and add a line like | 15:28 |
| jjohansen | /tmp/testfile rw, | 15:28 |
| jjohansen | to give that profile read and write permissions for that file or you could run the aa-logprof tool | 15:29 |
| === akgraner_ is now known as akgraner | ||
| jjohansen | aa-logprof will read the system logs looking for apparmor reject messages and try to update the profile | 15:30 |
| akgraner | <SevenMachines> QUESTION: Is there a way for an the responsible running application to be notified of an apparmor rejection? | 15:30 |
| jjohansen | no. to the application it looks like a DAC permission reject | 15:30 |
| jjohansen | that is to say the application receives an EACCESS error code | 15:31 |
| jjohansen | which could come from a file having the wrong permissions set or from apparmor | 15:31 |
| akgraner | <erUSUL> QUESTION: both done by /bin/example ? or by pid=somenunber ? | 15:32 |
| jjohansen | ah, both ;) | 15:32 |
| jjohansen | in the two example log are from different program invocations | 15:33 |
| jjohansen | so they have different pids recorded | 15:33 |
| jjohansen | they were both being confined by the same profile | 15:33 |
| jjohansen | jjohansen: i was confused by the name of the profile ... /bin/example? is it not bin.example ? | 15:34 |
| jjohansen | Ah good question, no | 15:34 |
| jjohansen | the file in /etc/apparmor.d/ would likely be called bin.example but the profile would be /bin/example | 15:34 |
| jjohansen | the name of the file actually is unimportant and can be anything like in the case of gdm-guest-session | 15:35 |
| jjohansen | if you look in the profile file you will the actual name of the profile | 15:35 |
| jjohansen | eg. for gdm-guest-session the actual profile is /usr/share/gdm/guest-session/Xsession | 15:36 |
| jjohansen | AppArmor uses the profile name to help determine when to attach a profile to an application | 15:37 |
| jjohansen | so the profile name will match an actual binary on disk | 15:37 |
| akgraner | <duanedesign> QUESTION: what would the name of the profile for /bin/example be in etc/apparmor | 15:38 |
| akgraner | duanedesign> QUESTION: what would the name of the profile for /bin/example be in etc/apparmor.d | 15:38 |
| jjohansen | by convention it would be /etc/apparmor.d/bin.example | 15:38 |
| akgraner | <ezzieyguywuf> <Question> Why is it so easy to get into "Passwords and Encryptions" and see all the passwords that have been stored on a keyring. Shouldn't this app be password protected or something? | 15:39 |
| jjohansen | but if there is a reason to use a different more descriptive name for the file use that | 15:39 |
| jjohansen | ezzieyguywuf: which app do you mean? | 15:40 |
| jjohansen | in general different apps have different requirements | 15:40 |
| jjohansen | if you mean the seahorse stuff going around | 15:41 |
| akgraner | ezzieyguywuf> jjohansen: Application >> Accesories >> Passwords and Encryption Keys | 15:41 |
| jjohansen | mdeslaur has a very good blog post about it | 15:42 |
| jjohansen | ah just a sec I will dig up the post, it goes into a much better explanation than I can heere | 15:42 |
| jjohansen | http://mdeslaur.blogspot.com/ | 15:43 |
| akgraner | <erUSUL> QUESTION: so something.separated.by.dots is just a convention ? no script depends on the files be named like that? | 15:43 |
| jjohansen | correct it is just a convention, it is the name inside the profile file that is important | 15:44 |
| jjohansen | the firefox profile could just as easily be called firefox | 15:44 |
| jjohansen | however when using apparmor profiling tools they do tend to use the convention, so you need to manually create a profile first if you want to use a different file name | 15:45 |
| jjohansen | or you could rename the file afterwards | 15:45 |
| akgraner | <erUSUL> jjohansen: but the name inside the file and the actual binary in the filesystem *do* have to match; do not they? | 15:45 |
| jjohansen | yes, they do, sort of :) | 15:45 |
| jjohansen | the name in the file can contain apparmor pattern matching | 15:46 |
| jjohansen | eg. /usr/bin/** | 15:46 |
| jjohansen | will match all files in and below /usr/bin/ | 15:46 |
| jjohansen | however another profile with a more specific name will take precedence | 15:47 |
| jjohansen | eg /usr/bin/ls | 15:47 |
| jjohansen | would be used over /usr/bin/** if it existed | 15:47 |
| jjohansen | the other case where they do not have to match comes from with in the profile it self | 15:47 |
| jjohansen | if a profile allow executing a binary it will have a transition rule | 15:48 |
| jjohansen | eg. /usr/bin/ls ix, | 15:48 |
| jjohansen | the x is short for execute permission, the i prefix is a modifier telling how to handle profiles | 15:49 |
| jjohansen | in this case there ix means inherit the current profile | 15:49 |
| akgraner | <duanedesign> QUESTION: you mentioned aa-logprof, how does that work? | 15:50 |
| jjohansen | This would be how you would create a large profile covering many different program like a confined shell | 15:50 |
| jjohansen | at the terminal type | 15:50 |
| jjohansen | aa-logprof | 15:50 |
| jjohansen | err better make that sudo aa-logprof | 15:50 |
| jjohansen | that will kick off the update program | 15:51 |
| jjohansen | it then scans the system logs looking for apparmor messages | 15:51 |
| jjohansen | if it finds some it will try to correlate them to profiles that are defined on the system | 15:51 |
| jjohansen | if it can do that it will begin prompting for user input, on what to do | 15:52 |
| jjohansen | an example would be | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | Profile: /bin/foobash | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | Path: /dev/tty | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | Mode: rw | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | Severity: 9 | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | 1 - #include <abstractions/consoles> | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | 2 - #include <abstractions/libvirt-qemu> | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | 3 - #include <abstractions/ubuntu-konsole> | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | 4 - #include <abstractions/ubuntu-xterm> | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | [5 - /dev/tty] | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | [(A)llow] / (D)eny / (G)lob / Glob w/(E)xt / (N)ew / Abo(r)t / (F)inish / (O)pts | 15:53 |
| jjohansen | the user can then select from the presented options | 15:54 |
| jjohansen | eg. just allowing /dev/tty | 15:54 |
| jjohansen | by pressing 5 | 15:54 |
| jjohansen | and then a for allow | 15:54 |
| jjohansen | or the user can deny the access by pressing d | 15:54 |
| jjohansen | pressing n will let the user enter any path they want | 15:55 |
| jjohansen | g will add a globbing suggestion, | 15:55 |
| jjohansen | in this case /dev/* | 15:55 |
| jjohansen | logprof will do this for each log entry and then ask if you want to save your changes | 15:56 |
| jjohansen | at that point your profiles should be updated | 15:56 |
| jjohansen | aa-logprof, does more than just save the profile, it also makes sure the profiles are reloaded into the system so applications are confined by the most recent version | 15:57 |
| jjohansen | aa-log prof is probably the single most useful tool for the user, as it lets them update profile for their configurations | 15:58 |
| jjohansen | since we are running out of time do we have anymore questions? | 15:58 |
| jjohansen | another couple tips | 15:59 |
| jjohansen | you can use aa-complain | 15:59 |
| jjohansen | to set profiles to learning mode | 15:59 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: Leadership Workshop with Jono Bacon || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| jjohansen | this will cause messages to go to the logs with out causing applications to fail | 16:00 |
| jcastro | ok we're out of time, thanks jjohansen for the session! | 16:00 |
| jcastro | Logs will be available on the wiki page shortly | 16:00 |
| jjohansen | its been fun :) | 16:00 |
| jcastro | Next up is Jono Bacon with a Leadership Workshop | 16:00 |
| jcastro | take it away jono! | 16:00 |
| jono | alrighty | 16:01 |
| jono | hi everyone and welcome to my Ubuntu Open Week session on Leadership | 16:02 |
| jono | I am Jono Bacon and I am the Ubuntu Community Manager - my job is to help enable the community to be successful in their work | 16:02 |
| jono | the goal of this session is to share some advice and tips for becoming an effective leader in a community - if you are the leader of a community team, this session should be useful to you | 16:02 |
| jono | ok, lets get started | 16:03 |
| jono | communities are wonderful places | 16:03 |
| jono | they provide a loose, informal place in which anyone is welcome to dip in and begin contributing to a globally significant project such as Ubuntu | 16:03 |
| jono | they are the definition of outreach: the doors are open and everyone is welcome, and if your work meets the quality needs of the community, you can have a long and rewarding experience contributing to Ubuntu | 16:04 |
| jono | but inside these vessels lies a challenge: how do we lead a group of unpaid volunteers who are donating their spare time to project, and lead them in a consistant, productive and effective direction? | 16:04 |
| jono | the first thing to realize is that leadership does not merely apply to those who have the formal badge "leader" | 16:05 |
| jono | there are many people in our community who don't have a formal leadership position, but they have a sense of drive and control that they naturally lead | 16:05 |
| jono | for years people have talked about how humans can be approximately divided up into "leaders" and "followers" and while I am not sure it is quite that simple, you can actually see this rather commonly - some people will just naturally want to take control and lead and some will look to others for direction | 16:06 |
| jono | if you find yourself naturally leading, you are by definition a leader, and my goal is to make you as effective and successful as possible | 16:07 |
| jono | to do this we need to understand two things: | 16:07 |
| jono | 1. the truths and myths about leadership | 16:07 |
| jono | 2. how we effectively lead our teams | 16:07 |
| jono | lets start with (1) | 16:07 |
| jono | the first myth is that leadership is about "having the power to tell people what to do" | 16:08 |
| jono | one of the traits I have noticed with online communities is that some people want to get into formal leadership positions because they want to feel like they have a sense of power | 16:08 |
| jono | it is typically a control thing | 16:09 |
| jono | people who become leaders because they want power are typically not the best leaders | 16:09 |
| jono | this is one of the rookie mistakes that many new managers face: | 16:09 |
| jono | they become a manager and they essentially "tell" their team what to do | 16:09 |
| jono | instead of working with their team to understand their needs, what motivates and annoys them, and work together to flesh out goals, they direct and boss them around, feeling the power trip | 16:10 |
| jono | while this kind of approach has short-term effectiveness, it will ultimately cause discontent in the team and they will move on | 16:11 |
| jono | a truth about leadership is that leaders are here to make their teams effective | 16:12 |
| jono | I believe you can boil leadership down into one key element: every team member has various problems and challenges to work on, and a great leader is there to help that team member optimize their opportunity for success | 16:13 |
| jono | in volunteer communities the fundamental goal of leadership is not really that different than in a company environment | 16:14 |
| jono | we look to our leaders to (1) inspire us and (2) make us effective | 16:14 |
| jono | my goal here is to share some tips on each of these topics | 16:14 |
| jono | lets look at the latter one first | 16:14 |
| jono | we want our teams to be effective | 16:15 |
| jono | we want each team member to not only be productive, but to have a great time being productive | 16:15 |
| jono | to help with this we need to not only understand what our team is working on, but we need to also help structure and coordinate that work so it can be as successful as possible | 16:16 |
| jono | in most community teams, structure is often left out | 16:16 |
| jono | people often conjure up a set of things they would like to work on, but there is little structure, project management and checking-in going on | 16:16 |
| jono | in a typically company environment it is often different - we have roadmaps, objectives, goals and more - these organizational tools help us to keep on track and help us to communicate progress and challenges to other stakeholders in the business | 16:17 |
| jono | we can take a leaf out of this book and help our communities to be more organized | 16:17 |
| jono | lets look at an example: | 16:18 |
| jono | imagine your LoCo team is working on having a booth at a conference | 16:18 |
| jono | this project involves many variables such as: | 16:18 |
| jono | * getting the booth space | 16:18 |
| jono | * getting equipment | 16:18 |
| jono | * organizing volunteers | 16:18 |
| jono | * coordinating travel | 16:18 |
| jono | * deciding on messaging for the event | 16:18 |
| jono | * handling money | 16:18 |
| jono | * . . . | 16:19 |
| jono | this project will typically involve many different people looking after different parts of the project | 16:19 |
| jono | as a leader this is how I would help the team be successful: | 16:19 |
| jono | 1. I would first organize an IRC meeting for those interested in helping with the project | 16:19 |
| jono | 2. before the meeting I would create a wiki page and jot down the different parts of the project (the things) above | 16:20 |
| jono | 3. in the IRC meeting I would discuss with the team who is going to work on what and note down these responsibilities into the wiki page - it is well known in Project Management circles that noting down named responsibilities in a shared document will generate a greater sense of commitment to those goals than if they were not noted down, because each person doesnt want to be seen as letting the team down by not working on their actions | 16:21 |
| jono | 4. with a set of responsibilities distributed between the team, I would then coordinate with the team to discuss the deadlines and add this to the document - some things will need to be done before other things, and noting down deadlines is another way of ensuring the different things happen in the right order | 16:22 |
| jono | 5. I would then create a shared calendar and add the different deadlines to it and ask the volunteers to subscribe to it | 16:23 |
| jono | 6. finally, I would schedule meetings every two weeks so the team could check in | 16:23 |
| jono | this entire process would be underlined with a repeated reassurance that I am here to help - at no point would I tell people what to do, the entire conversation would be underlined with "who would like to work on xyz" | 16:24 |
| jono | as you can see, this approach is much more structured and organized, and most community members would not naturally organize a project this way, but leaders have an excellent opportunity to | 16:24 |
| jono | as I said earlier, the goal of a leader is to help people be successful, and I believe this structure would raise the opportunity for success | 16:25 |
| jono | another element in making people effective is always providing a stable, professional and reassuring tone | 16:26 |
| jono | the greatest leaders are those who are always calm, collected and professional | 16:26 |
| jono | great leaders rarely get involved in slanging matches, shouting matches and trolling | 16:26 |
| jono | they always maintain a calm tone and focus on solutions | 16:26 |
| jono | now, of course, we are all human, and I like many have let this slip sometimes - sometimes we have bad days and other things in our lives that are worrying us | 16:27 |
| jono | and while these exceptions are human nature, we should strive for them to really be exceptions | 16:28 |
| jono | the most challenges area in which this can occur is conflict resolution | 16:28 |
| jono | conflict resolution is often the most testing element of leadership | 16:28 |
| jono | but it is also a huge opportunity to demonstrate your ability to show this calm, reasoned approach | 16:29 |
| jono | they key about conflict resolution is to focus on *solutions* | 16:29 |
| jono | in a situation where two or more people are arguing with each other, you will discover two types of people: | 16:29 |
| jono | 1. people who want to focus on the conflict - they will always hark about what happened, who did what and how they were maligned | 16:30 |
| jono | 2. people who want to move forward - these people will want to resolve the conflict and move on | 16:30 |
| jono | people who are (2) are way easier to deal with and people who are (1) are more complex | 16:30 |
| jono | they key thing is to keep the conversation always focused on resolving issues, finding solutions and making progress | 16:31 |
| jono | in conflict scenarios that occur in public. your team will *really* look to you to help here | 16:31 |
| jono | conflict in communities is hugely destructive because people simple don't want to spend their spare time away from their friends and families in an uncomfortable and shouty environment | 16:32 |
| jono | at this point I just want to let you good people know that I recently wrote a book on how to build community called The Art of Community and you can download it for free at http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/ and I would also encourage you to buy a copy to support the book | 16:33 |
| jono | in there it discusses the things I have talked about so far: how to structure and organize your community, conflict resolution and good leadership | 16:33 |
| jono | alright | 16:35 |
| jono | the final topic I mentioned is inspiring your team | 16:35 |
| jono | inspiring a team is such a hugely critical responsibility in our leaders | 16:35 |
| jono | our teams look to us for inspiration and guidance | 16:35 |
| jono | and it is important that we make them feel motivated and excited about being involved in the team | 16:36 |
| jono | much of this is about positive and re-enforced messaging | 16:36 |
| jono | just for a moment, think about what we are doing here... | 16:36 |
| jono | it is not like we work for a company who makes wire wool | 16:36 |
| jono | we are involved in a global movement that is changing how people use computers | 16:36 |
| jono | we are working towards a better future for our children | 16:37 |
| jono | we are putting the foundations in place for technology that helps people learn, express themselves, create things and communicate | 16:37 |
| jono | Ubuntu is a huge opportunity for change and every one of you has a seat on the journey | 16:38 |
| jono | inside this journey are all the bugs, discussions, emails, packages, updates and wiki pages, and it can be tempting to get a little bogged down in all of that | 16:38 |
| jono | but it is important that we all, not just leaders, remind ourselves of the wonderful journey that we are on, we need to see the forest, not the trees, in this journey | 16:39 |
| jono | our leaders are so important to spreading what I call The Ubuntu Ethos | 16:39 |
| jono | reminding ourselves of the bigger picture that we all play a part in as we move forward | 16:39 |
| jono | our leaders should not only inspire us to stay on the journey, but they should seek to remind us of how important our specific contributions are | 16:40 |
| jono | if you are a translator, you are helping to build a world in which everyone can use computers in their own language, this grows a culture of local pride and accessability | 16:40 |
| jono | if you are a packager, you are helping to bring the best free software to our journey, providing more value for those who use Ubuntu | 16:41 |
| jono | if you are tester, you are ensuring that all of the hard work going into Ubuntu works as flawlessly as possible - people don't use software that doesnt work, and it is people like you that make sure our good work meets these quality needs | 16:41 |
| jono | we look to our leaders to reassure our teams of these messages, and it is a hugely important element of leadership | 16:42 |
| jono | doing this is simple - regularly communicate this positive sense of camaraderie and value of personal contribution with your team | 16:42 |
| jono | you need to regularly remind and encourage your team around the incredible work they are doing | 16:43 |
| jono | I call this the Morning Motivation | 16:43 |
| jono | you want your team members to wake up in the morning and think "today I am going to change the world with my contributions to Ubuntui" | 16:43 |
| jono | when people develop that sense of motivation, they are like rocket-ships in our community., driving forward with tremendous work | 16:44 |
| jono | as a leader, don't be shy in motivating your team, there is nothing to be embaressed about, nothing to feel coy about, just go out there and make them feel good | 16:44 |
| jono | ok, we have 15 mins left | 16:45 |
| jono | I am going to take some questions | 16:45 |
| jono | <efm> QUESTION: How do you create a safe, private space for necessary emotional venting? | 16:45 |
| jono | venting an personal space is always important | 16:45 |
| jono | I always recommend that each person developers a set of friends and companions they can call up or ping on IRC and vent to | 16:45 |
| jono | leaders need this too | 16:46 |
| jono | I recommend against doing this in a channel, private or otherwise, as it can build a culture of negativity | 16:46 |
| jono | this is why I recommend 1-on-1 venting | 16:46 |
| jono | <efm> QUESTION: What can community leaders to help encourage a diverse community? | 16:46 |
| jono | we need to underline that every contribution is welcome | 16:47 |
| jono | sometimes times are not cut out to cater to some contributions (e.g. a LoCo team may have no packaging expertise), but we should encourage that person who wants to contribute in a new way to help build out that capability in the team, or help guide them to another team that does that work | 16:47 |
| jono | <openweek1> QUESTION: I'm very interested in quality and community entry barriers -- you said that the community has quality needs, a standard for the contributions -- how do you manage this point? what's good enough for a community? may this lead into elitism? -- hope my English it's OK :) | 16:48 |
| jono | good question - there is no fixed set of guidelines around quality in many teams | 16:49 |
| jono | I think you can assess this in the same way our sponsorship queue works - a mentoring-like facility - when people join your team and want to contribute something, have experienced members of your team help show them what the expectations around quality are | 16:49 |
| jono | have them comment-on and provide advice on their work, this will help them grow | 16:50 |
| jono | <arianit> QUESTION: how do you convince your friends they're not doing you a favor by participating | 16:50 |
| jono | I have no idea what you mean | 16:50 |
| jono | <Jesi> QUESTION: first of all, I think you are doing a great job here, I don't mind stepping up and being a leader but I don't have a problem not being in charge either. I know basis for this discussion is leadership, but what about self-leadership? If one wants to get involved, what steps can they take to make sure they are the most effective team member they can be? I'm not sure how to word my question, what can one do | 16:50 |
| jono | to make sure their skills are successfully being tapped for the good of the team? | 16:50 |
| jono | I think I know what you mean - a great leader needs to first of all show capability in their domain, but in many cases their leadership skills are the primary skills that people will tap | 16:51 |
| jono | as an example, many engineering managers in company are no where near as technically focused as their team members, but their skill is in understanding high-level needs of the company and having their teams work together to meet those needs | 16:52 |
| jono | the same goes for community leaders - if you repeatedly demonstrate an ability in providing advice and coordination for the team, people will look up to you for it | 16:53 |
| jono | <thomg> QUESTION: How do you deal with poor management? | 16:53 |
| jono | the best way is to be open and frank with that person - tell them how you feel they are making mistakes - a great manager or leader will listen to your comments carefully and evaluate whether they need to change, and do so where required | 16:54 |
| jono | the worst thing is to never tell your leader or manager that they are doing a sub-par job | 16:54 |
| jono | talk to them privately, not publicly, and offer them some friendly words of advice | 16:54 |
| jono | <IdleOne> QUESTION: how do you get people of that mind set to contribute ? | 16:54 |
| jono | which mind set? | 16:55 |
| jono | <LaserJock> QUESTION: How do you deal with teams that make plans but never do anything? ideas are plentiful, implementations are lacking | 16:55 |
| jono | good question, LaserJock | 16:55 |
| jono | I think the key here is that great project management involves the folllowing key steps: | 16:55 |
| jono | 1. understand the problem domain and the goal we seek to achieve | 16:55 |
| jono | 2. document a roadmap which says what you will do, who is working on what and set deadlines | 16:56 |
| jono | and this next one is the key one: | 16:56 |
| jono | 3. regularly check in on progress - this can happen with regular meetings | 16:56 |
| jono | if you notice that a specific person is unable or unwilling to work on their elements of the plan, coordinate having someone else take them on | 16:57 |
| jono | a great roadmap will almost always die unless it gets regularly check in on | 16:57 |
| jono | <IdleOne> QUESTION: how do you get people of that mind set to contribute ? | 16:57 |
| jono | so IdleOne is referring to those who are work and money focused | 16:57 |
| jono | people will only contribute to a community when they (a) enjoy it and (b) feel like their efforts are worthwhile | 16:58 |
| jono | I find that the hook is the wider Ubuntu ethos - making them feel like they are really making a difference in the world | 16:58 |
| jono | many people are hugely attracted to that, while others just enjoy the technical challenges and fun | 16:58 |
| jono | see what they like doing and see what attracts them | 16:58 |
| jono | ok folks, my time is about up - thanks for listening and thanks for the great questions | 16:59 |
| jono | again, check out my book - it is a free download and it covers many of these topics - http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/ | 16:59 |
| jono | if you can buy a copy that also sends a great message to O'Reilly about publishing Creative Commons books :) | 16:59 |
| jono | thanks folks! | 16:59 |
| akgraner | Thanks Jono! | 17:00 |
| akgraner | Up next is DK Cross and Making Screencast... | 17:00 |
| DKcross | hello friends! | 17:02 |
| akgraner | Welcome DKcross and take it away!! | 17:02 |
| DKcross | Hello good morning/ afternoom/ nigth online community it’s a pleasure to share ideas with all of you , my name is David Cruz , I’m from El Salvador and I’m participating with the community since 2 years ago. | 17:02 |
| DKcross | \07 | 17:03 |
| DKcross | Nowadays, I’m working in projects implementing Ubuntu in different schools around my country at the same time, I’m involved with Ubuntu team in El Salvador. | 17:03 |
| DKcross | In the community I’m working for Development and also I work in motivation and encouragement to promote that more people work for Ubuntu. | 17:04 |
| === akgraner changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: Making Screencast - DKcross || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| DKcross | Today, we are going to check a great TOPIC because this topic will help us to have a better vision about what people want to learn. | 17:05 |
| DKcross | First, i will talk about the documents | 17:06 |
| DKcross | The document refers to what help us to follow the steps to achieve a goal, | 17:06 |
| DKcross | and also it makes reference to the ways you can work in a software. | 17:06 |
| DKcross | The possible mistakes and the ways to solve them, the documents are the Base for someone without experience know something and understand the functions | 17:07 |
| DKcross | We know different types of documents, the most famous are the “how to’s “ which are the manuals about how to do something but the document goes beyond let’s see . | 17:08 |
| DKcross | We can mention as examples the e-mail list, due to is a tool that help us to solve problems and we can create the steps to obtain a solution. | 17:09 |
| DKcross | We can also obtain documents in books, and in this case I could mention different books that have been designed about Ubuntu. | 17:10 |
| DKcross | The irc channels are also documents the same as the e-mail list and they also contribute to community support but finally a problem solution is obtained . this is present in most of the projects about free software and ubuntu isn’t the exception . | 17:11 |
| DKcross | The screencast is a different way to make documents | 17:11 |
| DKcross | The screencast are very simple. It consists in making a record and explaining the process, it means something that you practice, explain and record. | 17:12 |
| DKcross | The screencast can be about many topics, the same as written documents, the most important difference about screencast is the possibility to guide people with our voice. | 17:13 |
| DKcross | The are many software to develop screencast, for example | 17:14 |
| DKcross | “ xvidcap” and “record my desktop”, for this topic I will talk about “record my desktop” | 17:14 |
| DKcross | i think is more easy :) | 17:14 |
| DKcross | and very simple.. | 17:14 |
| DKcross | but if for you is better with xvidcap, then is good too! | 17:15 |
| DKcross | What is record my desktop? | 17:15 |
| DKcross | RecordMyDesktop is a free and open-source desktop screencasting softwareapplication written for Linux that attempts to be easy to use, yet also effective at its primary task. | 17:16 |
| DKcross | The program is separated into two parts; a command line tool that performs the tasks of capturing and encoding, and an interface that exposes the program functionality graphically. | 17:17 |
| DKcross | There are two front-ends written in python with pyGtk (gtk-recordMyDesktop) and pyQt4 (qt-recordMyDesktop). | 17:18 |
| DKcross | RecordMyDesktop also offers the ability to record audio through ALSA, OSS or the JACK audio server. RecordMyDesktop only outputs to Ogg using Theora for video and Vorbis for audio. | 17:19 |
| DKcross | first, we have to install “recordmydesktop and gtk-recordmydesktop” | 17:20 |
| DKcross | in ubuntu :) | 17:20 |
| DKcross | we write in the Terminal sudo apt-get install recordmydesktop gtk-recordmydesktop | 17:21 |
| DKcross | Record my desktop is great tool, it allow us to record our desktop and at the same time it records our audio | 17:22 |
| DKcross | Some considerations you can take into account before you make a screencast: | 17:23 |
| DKcross | 1- To prepare a TOpic | 17:24 |
| DKcross | 2- to have a good knowledge about the Topic | 17:25 |
| DKcross | 3. to Practice what we are going to say | 17:25 |
| DKcross | 3. to Practice what we are going to say << very important! | 17:27 |
| DKcross | 4- record all the time and then edit | 17:27 |
| DKcross | 1. We have to choose a TOPIC based on necessities we have to cover , in general screencast will be for beginners in the Linux world, | 17:27 |
| DKcross | we have to remember that Ubuntu is the first distribution Linux for many people . | 17:28 |
| DKcross | Taking this into account, we have to choose topics that will give benefits to these people. | 17:28 |
| DKcross | We can consider that the the Ubuntu community is very friendly , with the screencast we can work for keeping this partnership. | 17:28 |
| DKcross | 2. We need to know the Topic we’re going to record , because it won’t be good if we record unreal information or a fact that we don’t know very well because this will affect others. | 17:29 |
| DKcross | We can select a Topic because we have to be sure that’s something it needs to be taught in a more detailed way, but we cand also make the effort to give a good class . For this reason, we have to know the topic ,to study it and investigate if we have any doubts. | 17:30 |
| DKcross | 3. It’s good to practice befote the rehearsal ,with the purpose of avoid mistakes or any problem. | 17:31 |
| DKcross | A good option will be to make rehearsal sessions , at the beginning we may feel nervous or afraid of taking but it will be over with the practice. | 17:32 |
| DKcross | 4. A good option is to record with mistakes and then to edit with edition tools such as: kdenlive or the one you prefer. | 17:33 |
| DKcross | To edit allow us to record and to repeat in the same record | 17:33 |
| DKcross | and later we delete the unnecessary information and at the same time, | 17:34 |
| DKcross | we can add captions, sound effects, and to increase the volume or reduce it. | 17:34 |
| DKcross | We’re going to practice recording a screencast, please follow this guide after you install record my desktop | 17:34 |
| DKcross | First, we have to install the necessary software | 17:35 |
| DKcross | we type in the Terminal | 17:35 |
| DKcross | sudo apt-get install recordmydesktop gtk-recordmydesktop | 17:36 |
| DKcross | or you can use other front end, like ubuntu software center | 17:36 |
| DKcross | or synaptic | 17:36 |
| DKcross | please go to -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DKcross/Presentations/mkscreencast | 17:37 |
| DKcross | Using recordMyDesktop | 17:37 |
| DKcross | You can start recordMyDesktop under Applications > Sound & Video > gtk-recordMyDesktop: | 17:38 |
| DKcross | This is how its interface looks. You can configure the video and sound quality (if you want to include sound in your screencast; it's also possible to deselect sound); | 17:38 |
| DKcross | to start a recording, click on Record; the recordMyDesktop window will disappear, and the recording starts. | 17:39 |
| DKcross | During the recording, you will see a square button in the taskbar in the upper right corner: | 17:40 |
| DKcross | This button allows you to control the recording. By right-clicking the button, you can pause the recording: | 17:40 |
| DKcross | And by left-clicking it, you stop the recording | 17:41 |
| DKcross | This will cause the recordMyDesktop-encoder window to apppear | 17:41 |
| DKcross | your screencast is now being converted to Theora Ogg: | 17:41 |
| DKcross | Afterwards, the recordMyDesktop window appears again | 17:42 |
| DKcross | Click on Quit to leave it: | 17:42 |
| DKcross | You can now find the screencast in your home folder (Places > Home Folder) | 17:42 |
| DKcross | Your screencast is named out.ogv. You can watch it by double-clicking it | 17:43 |
| DKcross | This will open your screencast in the Totem movie player: | 17:43 |
| DKcross | now, we know about screencast! | 17:44 |
| DKcross | is very easy. | 17:44 |
| DKcross | now you can convert from ogv to other.. like avi, mpeg .. | 17:44 |
| DKcross | We have learned how you can make a video about what take place in my desktop, it’s easy to follow and it’s one of the best ways to help the beginners , thanks for you attention ,it’s been a pleasure to share this with the online community. | 17:45 |
| DKcross | with big and friendly community of course.. | 17:45 |
| DKcross | who have the quesions? | 17:48 |
| DKcross | ohhh sorry | 17:48 |
| DKcross | this is important https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam | 17:48 |
| DKcross | The Ubuntu Screencast Team is a part of the Ubuntu Documentation Team, however we have our own mailing list and IRC channel (#ubuntu-screencasts). | 17:49 |
| akgraner | <TheFunkbomb> QUESTION: DKcross, what video editing software do you use? pitivi or whatever doesn't work with compiz. Kdenlive crashes | 17:49 |
| DKcross | ok | 17:51 |
| DKcross | well for me kdnlive has allways been a great tool | 17:51 |
| DKcross | while using compiz | 17:52 |
| DKcross | on the gnome desktop | 17:52 |
| akgraner | <jamesjedimaster> QUESTION how can i convert this .ogv into mpg or something else? | 17:53 |
| DKcross | you can go to #ubuntu-screencasts and ask more about | 17:53 |
| DKcross | :) | 17:54 |
| DKcross | is very easy convert ogv | 17:54 |
| DKcross | you need mencoder | 17:55 |
| DKcross | winff is a great tool too | 17:55 |
| DKcross | if you want a simple and great tool then you need winff | 17:55 |
| DKcross | ok | 17:56 |
| DKcross | about kdnlive, i am not familiar with all its bugs | 17:58 |
| DKcross | but you could report them | 17:58 |
| DKcross | and for sure the comunity can take | 17:58 |
| DKcross | care of them | 17:58 |
| DKcross | with with next update | 17:58 |
| DKcross | well... tanks for all | 17:59 |
| DKcross | :D thanks akgraner | 17:59 |
| akgraner | DKcross, thank you for taking time teach this session!... | 17:59 |
| DKcross | :) | 17:59 |
| akgraner | If you have questions about screencasts please go to #ubuntu-screencasts... | 18:00 |
| === akgraner changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: First steps in translating Ubuntu - DavidPlanella || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| akgraner | up next is David Planella.. | 18:00 |
| akgraner | with First steps in translating Ubuntu | 18:01 |
| dpm | thanks akgraner | 18:01 |
| akgraner | take it away! | 18:01 |
| dpm | Hi everyone :) ! | 18:01 |
| dpm | Welcome to this OpenWeek session on Ubuntu translations | 18:02 |
| dpm | My name is David Planella, and I work as the Ubuntu Translations Coordinator in the Community team. | 18:02 |
| dpm | In the next hour I'll try to outline the first steps to follow for anyone wanting to do their first contributions in translating Ubuntu. | 18:02 |
| dpm | As usual, if you've got any questions, feel free to ask them at the #ubuntu-classroom-chat channel prepending them with QUESTION. I'll leave some time before the end of the session to answer them. | 18:03 |
| dpm | So let's get started, shall we? | 18:04 |
| dpm | Ubuntu has got an amazing translation community. | 18:04 |
| dpm | Every day, people all around the globe contribute to translate your favourite distro in one of the hundreds of languages available, so that everyone can use it in their own. | 18:04 |
| dpm | This is a key part of the Ubuntu philosophy: | 18:05 |
| dpm | Every computer user should be able to use their software in the language of their choice. | 18:05 |
| dpm | So how can I join them and make my first translation contributions to Ubuntu?, you might ask yourself. | 18:06 |
| dpm | Let's start with the basic requirements. | 18:06 |
| dpm | First of all, you have to have some knowledge of English, and obviously of the language you are trying to translate into ;) | 18:06 |
| dpm | The requirement of English is necessary so that everyone can translate from the same common language | 18:07 |
| dpm | It is basically a convention that applications and documentation are written in English, which is also the main common language for communication amongst the international developer community. | 18:07 |
| dpm | Translators then translate from English to their own languages. | 18:08 |
| dpm | You will also need a Launchpad account. | 18:08 |
| dpm | If you don't already have one, I'd recommend you to check out the help page on creating a new account -> https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/NewAccount | 18:09 |
| dpm | Once we've cleared that up, the next thing you might want to get familiar with the collaborative tool we use to translate Ubuntu: Launchpad, and in particular the Translations component: | 18:10 |
| dpm | https://translations.launchpad.net/ | 18:10 |
| dpm | If you go to that page with your browser, you'll see that there are quite a lot of things which can be translated in Launchpad: on one side Operating Systems, and on the other individual projects. | 18:11 |
| dpm | You can click on them later on if you want to explore a bit, but for now we are going to focus on Operating Systems, which is the category in which Ubuntu falls. | 18:12 |
| dpm | Ubuntu is an Operating System, which we can consider a collection of applications that make your computer work. In that sense, we will be translating applications | 18:12 |
| dpm | You've got two possibilities to go to the translatable applications in Launchpad: | 18:13 |
| dpm | 1) On the main Launchpad Translations page, click on the link of the Ubuntu version you'd like to translate, for example https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+translations. | 18:14 |
| dpm | You'll then be taken to a list of languages. Click again on your language and you'll be shown a list of translatable applications, which you can then click and start translating them. | 18:14 |
| dpm | This is useful to have an overview of all packages to translate. | 18:15 |
| dpm | 2) The other option, which might be easier, is to open an application, e.g. Firefox, go to the Help menu and choose the "Translate this application..." entry. | 18:15 |
| dpm | Following that, a browser window will take you directly to the page in Launchpad where you can translate the application | 18:16 |
| dpm | This is useful if you know beforehand which application you'd like to translate | 18:16 |
| dpm | Most Ubuntu applications provide a link to the translation page on the Help menu | 18:17 |
| dpm | In one way or the other, you'll end up in a page where you'll see a collection of texts in English (also called strings) and a textbox where you can input your translation. | 18:18 |
| dpm | Along with that, you'll see other links to navigate within the translation and to save your work. | 18:18 |
| dpm | That's all you need for the start | 18:19 |
| dpm | The interface is pretty intuitive, so I'll let you play with it and figure it out. If you have any particular question, feel free to ask me at the end of the section. | 18:20 |
| dpm | The key idea is to provide translation suggestions through the interface and save them in Launchpad along the way. | 18:20 |
| dpm | The main goal of Launchpad Translations is to make it easy for people to collaborate on translations, but at the same time keep a good balance with the quality of translations. | 18:21 |
| dpm | To that extent, everyone with a Launchpad account can provide suggestions from day one, and these are shared amongst all projects hosted in there. | 18:22 |
| dpm | This greatly eases the process of translations, since thanks to these global suggestions, quite often adding a translation for a string already translated somewhere else is just a matter of pointing and clicking :) | 18:23 |
| dpm | However, before strings can be used in Ubuntu, they must be reviewed for consistence and correctness. | 18:24 |
| dpm | Without review, it could well be that spelling mistakes or misleading translations for actions or options in an application appear in Ubuntu | 18:25 |
| dpm | That's one of the main reasons we need review. Another one is consistency. | 18:26 |
| dpm | It is always desirable that translations for the same strings are consistent across applications | 18:26 |
| dpm | so that the user gets a consistent experience and he or she knows that translations for a particular option, preference or action are always the same regardless of the application | 18:27 |
| dpm | You can of course keep providing suggestions, in particular if you are new and want to get familiar with the interface and the functionality, but at some point you will want to see if your translations are being used or get feedback on them. | 18:28 |
| dpm | So how are these translation suggestions reviewed and accepted? | 18:28 |
| dpm | And here we come to the interesting part: Community. | 18:29 |
| dpm | Enter language teams. | 18:30 |
| dpm | The Ubuntu Translations community is organised in language teams, one per language, which are normally integrated in a bigger LoCo team. | 18:30 |
| dpm | In Launchpad, these teams are further integrated in the Ubuntu Translations _group_, which is basically a container for all Ubuntu translations teams: | 18:31 |
| dpm | https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators | 18:31 |
| dpm | There you can see the list of all existing teams which have started a translation effort in Ubuntu. | 18:32 |
| dpm | There is is a good chance that you'll find a team for your language (if not, stay tuned and I'll let you know how you can start one later on). | 18:32 |
| dpm | These teams are in charge of translating and reviewing the translations for Ubuntu, so the next step in your Ubuntu translations is to get in touch with them. | 18:33 |
| dpm | in your Ubuntu translations journey, I meant :) | 18:33 |
| dpm | Communication is a key aspect in open source communities. | 18:34 |
| dpm | The translation team members will give you feedback about your translations, and accept them after review. | 18:34 |
| dpm | They will also let know about the way they work, their guidelines, and of more advanced aspects of translations if you want to contribute further. | 18:35 |
| dpm | Most importantly, they will be your entry point in entering the Ubuntu translations community and helping you along the way. | 18:36 |
| dpm | After you've gained some experience in translations, you might want to ask them if you can join in as well! | 18:36 |
| dpm | So here's how you can contact the particular translation team for your language: | 18:37 |
| dpm | 1) Go to https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators | 18:37 |
| dpm | 2) Find your language's team and click on their link | 18:37 |
| dpm | 3) You'll then be taken to the team's home page in Launchpad, which should give you further instructions on their preferred way of contact. | 18:38 |
| dpm | Each team works differently, but in general terms most of them use a mailing list or a forum for communication, and getting in touch is normally as easy as sending an e-mail or a post with a short presentation of yourself saying that you'd like to contribute. | 18:38 |
| dpm | You'll then be welcomed and they'll let you know more about how the team works and answer the questions you might have. | 18:39 |
| dpm | Apart from the local teams, there is also a global translations community in which members of all different teams interact and discuss everything related to Ubuntu Translations. | 18:39 |
| dpm | Discussion there takes place in English as the common language, and I'd very much encourage you to participate if you want to learn more about how translations globally work. | 18:40 |
| dpm | The main point of contact is the mailing list, but we've got an IRC channel where you can ask any questions as well: | 18:40 |
| dpm | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Contact | 18:40 |
| dpm | (so in fact you can just come to #ubuntu-translators and say hi ;) ) | 18:41 |
| dpm | There's quite a lot more interesting stuff in translations: upstream projects, translation milestones, online and offline translation, etc. but this should get you started for now. | 18:41 |
| dpm | I'll leave the rest for a future session or for the language teams to explain. | 18:42 |
| dpm | And finally some links as reminders: | 18:42 |
| dpm | * Launchpad Translations: https://translations.launchpad.net/ (the collaborative tool we use to translate Ubuntu) | 18:42 |
| dpm | * The Ubuntu Translators group: https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators (how you can join the translation community in your language) | 18:43 |
| dpm | * The Translations home on the Ubuntu wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/ (all information around Ubuntu Translations) | 18:43 |
| dpm | * Launchpad Translations help: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/ (if you need help in using Launchpad for translations) | 18:43 |
| dpm | * IRC channel for Ubuntu Translations on Freenode: #ubuntu-translators | 18:43 |
| dpm | * IRC channel for Launchpad questions on Freenode: #launchpad | 18:44 |
| dpm | So I hope you found the session interesting so far, and I hope it generated some food for questions. Please feel free to ask anything | 18:45 |
| dpm | So | 18:45 |
| dpm | Bring them on! :) | 18:45 |
| akgraner | <yltsrc> QUESTION: why launchpad translations doesn't sent into mainstream (e.g. gnome project)? | 18:45 |
| dpm | that's a good question, and a bit more advanced, so let me quickly give some background first | 18:46 |
| dpm | Ubuntu is a collection of applications and open source efforts which most often are organised as separate projects | 18:48 |
| dpm | quite often as well, translations of those projects are imported into Ubuntu | 18:48 |
| dpm | and the whole Ubuntu community greatly benefits from those as well | 18:49 |
| dpm | Ubuntu translators can complete translations in Launchpad, but it has been historically complicated from a technical point of view | 18:49 |
| dpm | to contribute back those translations to the upstream projects | 18:50 |
| dpm | it is still doable, but has been left to local teams to do that manually | 18:50 |
| dpm | Things have changed though | 18:50 |
| dpm | and you'd be happy to hear that the Launchpad Translations team is working towards providing better upstream integration as their main focus | 18:51 |
| dpm | next question? | 18:51 |
| akgraner | <Jesi> QUESTION: What languages are currently being worked on and which ones need to be worked on? | 18:51 |
| dpm | basically all are currently being worked on :) Translations mostly happen during the development cycle | 18:52 |
| dpm | but they can be also completed during the stable release | 18:52 |
| dpm | and translations are released through language packs | 18:52 |
| dpm | all teams need help | 18:53 |
| dpm | and are happy to get new contributors | 18:53 |
| dpm | next question please? | 18:53 |
| akgraner | <Jesi> QUESTION: Knowing a few languages myself, I understand the need for a common base langauge to be used, but for those who would be frustrated, wanting to convert from say German to Deutch instead of English to Dutch, could you talk a moment to talk about the importance of using one language as a base? | 18:53 |
| dpm | I'm not sure I understand the question, but basically having a single language as a basis helps in consistency on the process | 18:55 |
| dpm | in any case, Launchpad also provides you suggestions from another language you might be fluent in, if that can help you | 18:56 |
| dpm | <Jesi> QUESTION: How to you about reporting an improper translation or translation abuse? If for some unthinkable reason they aren't caught | 18:57 |
| dpm | you can use the ubuntu-translations project for that -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ReportingBugs | 18:57 |
| dpm | <jimbodoors> QUESTION: Ubuntu and Debian share translations? | 18:58 |
| dpm | In general terms, Debian translations are shared by importing them. In particular applications, developers are both Debian and Ubuntu members | 18:59 |
| dpm | so sharing works best on those cases | 18:59 |
| dpm | I'm not sure if we've got time for another question | 18:59 |
| dpm | ? | 18:59 |
| dpm | So I think that was it. Thank you very much for listening and I hope to see you around in the translations world! | 19:00 |
| akgraner | nope times up dpm..:-) | 19:00 |
| dpm | thanks a lot for your help akgraner! | 19:00 |
| akgraner | Thank You dpm!! | 19:00 |
| akgraner | up next is Scott Kitterman | 19:01 |
| ScottK | There are three of us here to chat with you about Kubuntu, KDE, and netbooks. Despite what the openweek handbook said, I know very little about Gimp (that's the next guy). I've been a Kubuntu user since 6.06 and involved in Kuubntu development for about two years now. I coordinated most of the integration work to provide Kubuntu Netbook Edition for Karmic. | 19:01 |
| ScottK | Marco Martin (notmart) is a KDE contributor since 2007, mainly on The Plasma desktop shell project and other workspace related technologies like the definition and the implementation of the new X systemtray protocol. He is currently working for Qt Development Frameworks on the development of the Plasma Netbook shell, a workspace tailored for netbooks and other small screen devices based around the KDE and Plasma technologies. | 19:01 |
| ScottK | Linux user since 1997, MoRpHeUz (a.k.a. Artur de Souza) works for INdT (Nokiaâs Institute of Technology) as a researcher on the openBossa Stream, developing open-source solutions for mobile devices. He is a KDE hacker, hacking mainly the Plasma desktop shell project and creating a unique user experience for KDE users on mobile devices like netbooks and mobile phones. | 19:01 |
| ScottK | We have an overview of Kubuntu Netbook here: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Netbook - I also recently did an overview of the development process for planet.ubuntu.com that you can read here: http://www.kitterman.org/ScottK/2009/10/making_of_a_new_ubuntu_flavor.html - It also has more links on the background of Plasma Netbook. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iULB1zE7EJE&NR=1 is pretty close to what we have in Karmic if you don't have it | 19:01 |
| ScottK | running and want to get the basic idea. | 19:01 |
| ScottK | The first Kubuntu Netbook edition is an experiment that is the result of close collaboration between Kubuntu and the upstream developers. My experience is that while there are some things it doesn't do that are inconvenient, and it doesn't fully express the KDE netbook vision, it's pretty good and usable. We use it on three netbooks at my house and everyone likes it (Including my decidedly non-technical 18 year old daughter). | 19:02 |
| === akgraner changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: Kubuntu Netbook Edition - Scott Kitterman || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| ScottK | I came prepared to talk about how the development of Kubuntu Netbook edition went, what we plan for the future, and how people can get involved. | 19:02 |
| ScottK | Now I'll turn it over to notmart and MoRpHeUz for any comments they may have ... | 19:02 |
| MoRpHeUz | well, just ask us questions and I hope we can answer them well enough :) | 19:03 |
| notmart | well, what i can say, i'm pretty happy with the kubuntu implementation, looks quite straightforward to test and use | 19:04 |
| notmart | and is important for us since can give a testbed really easy for people to test | 19:04 |
| MoRpHeUz | notmart: +1 | 19:04 |
| === dpm is now known as dpm-afk | ||
| ScottK | For feedback from users, there is a plasma-netbook product in the plasma project on bugs.kde.org for feedback that goes straight to the upstream developers. | 19:05 |
| ScottK | question: can i run normal kubuntu/kde after installing kubuntu netbook? can i switch between the two | 19:05 |
| ScottK | Not easily. | 19:05 |
| ScottK | From a package perspective, Kubuntu Desktop and Netbook are very similar. | 19:06 |
| notmart | for kde 4.4 there will be a systemsettings module that allows on the fly switch between the two | 19:06 |
| ScottK | To switch to Kubuntu Desktop you have to remove the plasma-netbook, kubuntu-netbook, kubuntu-netbook-default-settings packages and restart KDE. | 19:07 |
| ScottK | So we should have it integrated to switch easily in 10.04 | 19:07 |
| ScottK | QUESTION: Is the emphasis more on making things run well on small screens, or on things like power saving and performance? | 19:07 |
| ScottK | I'll let notmart or MoRpHeUz answer that one | 19:08 |
| notmart | yep, perhaps you can ship in a different package, and the netbook option would be greyed out in this case if not installed (still question before) | 19:08 |
| notmart | ScottK: both, for kde 4.4 we are more focusing on getting the thing out of the door and work well, but we try to keep things with a reasonable footprint | 19:09 |
| notmart | next revisions will focus more on performance probably | 19:09 |
| ScottK | Question: what exactly are the differences between KDE and KDE Netbook Edition? What functionality will be lost from standard KDE | 19:10 |
| notmart | good thing is, as soon as it'll upgrae to Qt 4.6 there will be some performance improvement for free quite noticeable | 19:10 |
| ScottK | Kubuntu will ship with Qt 4.6 in 10.04 | 19:10 |
| notmart | excellent :) | 19:10 |
| notmart | next q, the software available is the same, so is possible to use every program shipped with kde, supposing it's installed | 19:11 |
| notmart | what will change is the main shell the user sees | 19:11 |
| ScottK | In answer to the differences question, if you look at the youtube videos I linked above shows you how the netbook 'desktop' looks/works. It's different | 19:12 |
| notmart | i.e. there isn't a real "desktop" | 19:12 |
| notmart | and the interaction of this main shell is different | 19:12 |
| notmart | another thing that will be different in kde 4.4 is the behaviour of the window manager | 19:12 |
| notmart | for instance windows won't have borders when maximized | 19:13 |
| notmart | and will start maximized as default | 19:13 |
| notmart | other things, let's see | 19:13 |
| ScottK | So working better by default on the smaller screens and maximizing the screen real estate you do have | 19:13 |
| notmart | exactly | 19:14 |
| ScottK | QUESTION: is kubuntu the only distro to use KDE on a netbook? | 19:14 |
| ScottK | So far, yes. | 19:14 |
| ScottK | I'm sure once KDE 4.4 is out, others will pick it up. | 19:14 |
| ScottK | I started this effort now because I want KDE on netbooks to get a running start next year. | 19:14 |
| ScottK | question: is there a FAQ section on the wiki i can reference to see if my question has been asked already? | 19:15 |
| ScottK | No, not yet. | 19:15 |
| ScottK | Documentation of all types for Kubuntu Netbook is pretty much lacking and we'd love to have help with htat | 19:15 |
| ScottK | <Jesi> this isn't netbook related, but is KDE supposed to feel like windows in some way? like with the main menu | 19:17 |
| ScottK | I'd say that people have often made that comparison, but I'm pretty sure it's never been a design goal. | 19:17 |
| notmart | well, it's not "supposed", some things are different, some aren't | 19:17 |
| ScottK | Unlike other efforts that treat netbooks as just small computers, Plasma Netbook is trying to develop an environment that really works at this new scale. | 19:18 |
| notmart | we do things in the way we feel works better/more intuitive and in the end it happens that some stuff works in the same way as in other environments | 19:18 |
| ScottK | <amik> QUESTION: any chance to see support for poulsbo (GMA500)? discussion in the bug on this says the dirvers are fully functional, but not packaged for other unknown reasons) | 19:19 |
| ScottK | The problem is that they aren't free software. | 19:19 |
| ScottK | Unless the owners of the drivers authorize their distribution for Karmic, there is nothing anyone else can do. | 19:19 |
| ScottK | <mark726> Question:how does Kubuntu Netbook compare with UNR resource wise? CPU, and memory use etc.. | 19:20 |
| ScottK | The only think I've compared is ISO image size. | 19:20 |
| ScottK | There Kubuntu Netbook is bigger, by design. | 19:20 |
| notmart | i've not measured and compared the two systems | 19:20 |
| notmart | i think there shouldn't be much difference | 19:21 |
| ScottK | Since most netbooks don't have CD ROMs we assume people will install via USB and don't worry about the 700MB size limit | 19:21 |
| notmart | tough measuring accurately occupied memory in kde apps is very hard, since there is a lot of memory sharing | 19:21 |
| ScottK | This lets us ship all the available language packs plus a small selection of educational software and games that don't fit on the Kubuntu Desktop CD. | 19:21 |
| ScottK | <Jesi> Question: will there be a Kubuntu Network Remix version or is that just an Ubuntu thing... | 19:22 |
| ScottK | I "Remix" is a mix of official packages from the Ubuntu archive plus modified/new ones. | 19:22 |
| ScottK | In Hardy, UNR was a true remix. They decided to keep the name, even though it is, from Jaunty on, fully in the archive | 19:23 |
| ScottK | For Kubuntu we've beein 100% in the archive from the start, so we call ourselved Kubuntu Netbook Edition. | 19:23 |
| ScottK | On the comparison front, I do find that plasma-netbook is noticably lighter than the regular plasma-desktop. | 19:24 |
| ScottK | It's a noticable difference on my Dell mini 10v. | 19:24 |
| ScottK | <jwisser> Question: Is the "1 running app" notification in the upper left-hand corner meant to act as an app switcher, or just a notifier? | 19:24 |
| ScottK | It's an app switcher (the primary one) | 19:25 |
| notmart | it's an application switcher | 19:25 |
| ScottK | Also the X to the right of that will close the current window | 19:25 |
| notmart | clicking on it can have two different behaviours depending if desktop effects are enabled or not | 19:25 |
| notmart | if they are, a present windoww effect is triggered, a la exposé | 19:26 |
| ScottK | If desktop effects are disabled, on the current Kubuntu Netbook, you need to alt-tab to switch | 19:26 |
| ScottK | I have it on my TODO still to see if we can backport getting the app switcher to work without effects. | 19:26 |
| MoRpHeUz | and with kde 4.4 it displays a list of the open windows... | 19:26 |
| notmart | in kde 4.4 if they aren't there will be just a normal popup | 19:26 |
| MoRpHeUz | (without effects) | 19:26 |
| ScottK | <amik> QUESTION: how far are KDE from making the official netbook release? both time-wise and feature-wise? | 19:27 |
| notmart | the release will be together with kde 4.4 | 19:28 |
| ScottK | From a Kubuntu perspective, you will see it in Lucid Lynx, 10.04 next April. | 19:28 |
| notmart | so february 2010 | 19:28 |
| ScottK | KDE 4.4 is getting near feature freeze, so they are pretty far along | 19:28 |
| ScottK | <Jesi> Question: Are their any differences between the Kubuntu and Ubuntu Netbook Editions other than the obvious difference of desktop environment, or will the decision to use one or the other still simply be preference? | 19:30 |
| ScottK | Under the hood they share the same platform. | 19:30 |
| ScottK | Kernel, drivers, etc. are the same. | 19:30 |
| ScottK | So it's really up to what you prefer. | 19:30 |
| notmart | well, performance or how you prefer the interface to look/behave | 19:31 |
| ScottK | yes | 19:31 |
| ScottK | <amik> QUESTION: how does the design of a totally new interface paradigm come into being? are there usability tests? goals and guidelines on which ideas are based? or just hacked away into being, smoothing edges along the way? | 19:34 |
| MoRpHeUz | amik: we did usability tests | 19:34 |
| ScottK | For me it's easy. Upstream writes the code and I package it. | 19:34 |
| MoRpHeUz | amik: my company did usability tests with non-geek users | 19:35 |
| MoRpHeUz | both recorded in tape (or dvd, whatever), interviews, etc... | 19:35 |
| ScottK | You may want to look at http://morpheuz.cc/netbook-paper.pdf for more background. | 19:35 |
| MoRpHeUz | ScottK: thanks for the link, I was going to get that right now hehe | 19:35 |
| notmart | then we discussed, discussed and discussed the results | 19:36 |
| MoRpHeUz | amik: based on this research we started having the ideas and I'm always showing them the results and getting feedback | 19:36 |
| MoRpHeUz | (a lot of discussion hehe) | 19:36 |
| notmart | a pretty serious design process i would say | 19:36 |
| MoRpHeUz | amik: and in the end we are aiming at creating a pretty unique user experience, not just yet another desktop shell | 19:36 |
| ScottK | <the_madman> QUESTION: The pillars of KDE 4 have been meaning to make it a rather, 'revolutionary' desktop, yet a lot of attention has been focussed on Plasma. Now that Plasma has been vastly improved and mostly stabalized, can we expect to see greater focus on the other pillars, such as Akonadi and Nepomuk? | 19:37 |
| ScottK | This isn't really a netbook specific question. | 19:37 |
| notmart | the_madman: absolutely | 19:37 |
| ScottK | From what I know, I think the answer is yes. | 19:37 |
| ScottK | From a distribution perspective, Nepomuk has been tough because we didn't have a backend that was both FOSS and had good performance. | 19:38 |
| notmart | the madman: development of nepomuk and akonady ha been pretty fast, not really visible because they are frameworks, butthey are being quickly integrated now | 19:38 |
| ScottK | It looks like that is changing. | 19:38 |
| notmart | there will be a kmail release based on akonady in the near future, probably 4.5 | 19:39 |
| ScottK | I think it's another 12 -18 months before Akonadi is fully integrated, but honestly I'm glad it's slow and they are careful. Email is some of the most imporant data I have. | 19:39 |
| notmart | yeah, the new backend, virtuoso should have both a good license and waay better performances | 19:39 |
| ScottK | Kmail/Akonadi is aimed at 4.5 currently. | 19:40 |
| ScottK | http://pim.kde.org/akonadi/ for those wondering what Akonadi is | 19:41 |
| ScottK | http://nepomuk.kde.org/ for Nepomuk | 19:42 |
| ScottK | Akonadi, although it is a KDE pillar has no KDE dependencies. | 19:42 |
| ScottK | It is hoped that it will be picked up as a cross DE free desktop solution | 19:42 |
| ScottK | I've seen a prototype of Evolution running off an Akonadi backend. | 19:43 |
| ScottK | <sebsebseb> QUESTION: Why is 9.10 the first release to get a Kubuntu Netbook Remix version? I guess, because KDE wasn't seen as being ready enough before, and funding? | 19:45 |
| notmart | cool thing is that will be possible to have multiple apps accessing akonadi data without doing corruptions, so you will be able to have a recap of the last unread mails on the desktop for instance | 19:45 |
| ScottK | Plasma netbook just started development recently. | 19:45 |
| notmart | yes, early 2009 | 19:45 |
| ScottK | I saw http://www.notmart.org/index.php/BlaBla/put_a_net_in_your_book while I was at the last Ubuntu Developer summit where we planned Karmic. | 19:45 |
| ScottK | Pretty much immediately I thought we ought to have a Kubuntu Netbook version and started convincing people. | 19:46 |
| notmart | wow, how it seems old alredy :) | 19:46 |
| ScottK | It was a very interesting process because as far as I know, no community developed *buntu flavor has ever started out in the official repositories before. | 19:47 |
| ScottK | I was quite pleased with the support from Canononical people throughout the process. | 19:47 |
| ScottK | We (community developers) did most of the work, but whenever we needed help or they were the best one for the just, they just jumped right in. | 19:48 |
| ScottK | A small example, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Netbook used to be very developer focused and wouldn't have helped users at all. A day or two before the release Riddell rewrote it because it needed doing. | 19:49 |
| ScottK | This turns out to be very much a joint community/Canonical effort | 19:49 |
| ScottK | Getting a workable plasma netbook with KDE 4.3 also had a lot of help from upstream. notmart and MoRpHeUz both were a lot of help in the development process for us. | 19:51 |
| ScottK | This is particularly notable since the work we were doing had already branched off of what they were doing for KDE 4.4 and so it was not in their planned line of work. | 19:51 |
| ScottK | Karmic was, I think, in general a notable release for Kubuntu/KDE in that we worked together a lot more closely in a number of areas. | 19:52 |
| ScottK | QUESTION, are there little tasks for the new commers to Kubuntu development | 19:53 |
| ScottK | Yes. Please join us in #kubuntu-devel. | 19:53 |
| ScottK | We need all kinds of help. | 19:53 |
| ScottK | Although Canonical supports Kubuntu significantly, it is primarily a community driven project. | 19:53 |
| ScottK | We need help with bug triaging, wiki updating, documentation, marketing, everything. Not just coding an packaging. | 19:54 |
| ScottK | <amik> QUESTION: what future plans do u have for the netbook edition? | 19:54 |
| ScottK | For Lucid, we'll use the plasma-netbook that's released with KDE 4.4, so we'll be in the main line of KDE development. | 19:55 |
| ScottK | The plan is to continue this project. | 19:55 |
| MoRpHeUz | amik: ^ this will be awesome to align everything | 19:55 |
| ScottK | A lot of the specifics will be based on feedback and how much help we have to do the work. | 19:56 |
| MoRpHeUz | and from "upstream" point of view, we have a lot of ideas like "social integration" and others | 19:56 |
| ScottK | As with Kubuntu desktop, Kubuntu netbook aims to be a very upstream distro, so in many respects the Kubuntu plan is the KDE plan | 19:56 |
| ScottK | <the_madman> QUESTION: The design of Plasma was so that it would be scalable, a la the netbook remix. Are there plans to scale it down even futher, perhaps to smart-phones? If so, what work would go towards getting KDE installed on smartphones by default? | 19:57 |
| notmart | for us, is to continue along the line of what we have now, both in terms of features and stability, we aim to make it a good experience on the devices that are out there now and for future ones, that could be different, like the presence of touchscreens for instance | 19:57 |
| ScottK | I've seen Plasma running on Nokia N900. | 19:57 |
| notmart | http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/10/27/qgraphicsview-is-a-hummer-plasma-is-the-luxury-version/ | 19:57 |
| ScottK | <Jesi> Question: not to go off topic, but you mention marketing, what plans to you have for Kubuntu Netbook Edition here? I feel marketing is largely overlooked and am interested to know what is planned | 19:58 |
| ScottK | For marketing, I know we need to get some of that. Kubuntu as a whole needs it. | 19:58 |
| ScottK | I'm a developer, not a marketer and would really like some involvement from people that understand about htat. | 19:59 |
| notmart | oon previous question: we aim to make it work as better as possible on every devices, smartphones are becoming powerful and interesting enough to give a try, it will be of course different from what we have in the desktop and the netbook... nothing planned right now but we'll see | 19:59 |
| === akgraner changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: Intro to GIMP - akk || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| ScottK | On that note, the current U/I (except a few installer screens) mostly workw on a 480 pixel height screen. That's what the N900 has | 20:00 |
| akgraner | Thanks ScottK et al :-) | 20:00 |
| ScottK | OK. I guess we're done Thanks everyone. | 20:00 |
| ScottK | Thank you MoRpHeUz and notmart. | 20:00 |
| MoRpHeUz | ScottK: thank you for all the help :) | 20:01 |
| notmart | ScottK: our pleasure :D | 20:01 |
| akgraner | Up next is Akkana Peck with an Intro to GIMP....:-) | 20:01 |
| akgraner | akk, the floor is all yours when you are ready.... | 20:02 |
| akk | Hi, all! Welcome to the GIMP session! | 20:02 |
| akk | I'm Akkana Peck -- I wrote "Beginning GIMP" (gimpbook.com) and I've been involved with GIMP for 8-9 years. | 20:02 |
| akk | You all probably know what GIMP is, but it stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program, | 20:03 |
| akk | and what it does is edit images. | 20:03 |
| akk | If anybody has specific techniques you'd like to learn (or other questions), | 20:03 |
| akk | ask on #ubuntu-classroom-chat. | 20:03 |
| akk | If you don't have any of your own photos handy for following along during this session, | 20:04 |
| akk | you might like some of the ones at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Koala :) | 20:04 |
| akk | And a tip to start out: you may be able to drag from Firefox straight into GIMP | 20:05 |
| akk | (drop it over the Toolbox -- the small window with all the buttons) | 20:05 |
| akk | Drag-n-drop works in a lot of places in gimp (I'll talk more about that later if I have time). | 20:05 |
| akk | For commandline junkies (like me), you can also run gimp foo.jpg bar.jpg ... and it will open in your already-running GIMP -- that's how I most often open images. | 20:06 |
| akk | Any questions to start out? Does everybody have gimp running and an image loaded? | 20:06 |
| akk | I'll start with some really basic stuff (that still confuses a lot of people): scaling. | 20:07 |
| akk | You can't put your 5-megapixel image on the web -- people will hate you. | 20:08 |
| akk | Image->Scale Image lets you make the image a more reasonable size. | 20:08 |
| akk | It brings up a dialog showing the current size of the image. Bring it up and take a look. | 20:08 |
| akk | IGNORE the X and Y resolution fields. They don't do what you probably expect. | 20:09 |
| akk | Also, that menu over on the right that says pixels? | 20:10 |
| akk | It has two useful settings: Pixels and Percent. | 20:10 |
| akk | The other settings are misleading. | 20:10 |
| akk | You might think 'I want to print out an 8" x 10" photo, so I should Scale to that size!" | 20:10 |
| akk | But all GIMP knows about in an image are pixels. | 20:11 |
| akk | If you don't have enough pixels, it won't look good printed. | 20:11 |
| akk | If you have too many, it'll be too big to put on a web site. | 20:11 |
| akk | (Personally I try to keep web images around 550-800 pixels, biggest dimension.) | 20:11 |
| akk | <mhall119|work> QUESTION: what's the best scaling interpolation? | 20:11 |
| akk | That's something people argue about. Either Cubic or Lanczos is good | 20:12 |
| akk | but Lanczos has some problems in certain situations -- Cubic works pretty well everywhere. | 20:12 |
| akk | I usually type my number (600 or whatever) into the Width field then hit Tab | 20:13 |
| akk | and the other field adjusts automatically. Then click Scale. | 20:13 |
| czajkowski | 20:13 < SoftwareExplorer> QUESTION: Where does Lanczos not do well? | 20:13 |
| akk | If you want to scale in only one dimension (not have the other field auto-adjust) | 20:13 |
| akk | you can click the little chain-link linking the two fields. | 20:13 |
| akk | I actually don't remember the details of where Lanczos breaks down. :) Would have to look it up. Ask me again after the class and I'll find it. | 20:14 |
| czajkowski | 20:13 < Jesi> Question: I love GIMP, and actually think it's much better than photoshop, but GIMP is so underrated and many people say they don't like it, but often I find these people don't give it a chance...they either feel intimidated by it, or simply don't like it because it's not Photoshop and often they don't want to take the time to | 20:14 |
| czajkowski | learn a new prgram (that's understandable), how would yuou go about encouraging someone | 20:14 |
| czajkowski | 20:13 < Jesi> to give GIMP a try? | 20:14 |
| akk | I agree with Jesi on that. At the same time, I can understand users not wanting to learn a new UI. | 20:15 |
| akk | It's possible to substitute a set of key bindings that make GIMP a little more like PS ... but I don't generally recommend that since the rest of the interface is still pretty different. | 20:16 |
| akk | Likewise, using something like Gimpshop (a hacked build of gimp) usually doesn't work out very well. | 20:16 |
| akk | So I guess I'd just stress to them that learning a new program always takes a bit of time, but can be worth it in the end. | 20:17 |
| akk | Okay, I think I'm caught up on questions. | 20:17 |
| akk | After you Scale, you get a ridiculously tiny image in a huge window. | 20:17 |
| akk | You'll probably want to zoom it to 100%. | 20:17 |
| akk | At the bottom of the image window you can see your zoom factor (e.g. 50%, 33%, 100%). | 20:18 |
| akk | It's a menu, so you can choose any zoom right there, or from View->Zoom. | 20:18 |
| akk | You can also zoom in/out with the +/- keys. | 20:18 |
| akk | Or type 1 at any time to zoom to 100% (that's great if you're previewing something you just scaled for the web). | 20:18 |
| akk | +, - and 1 are great key bindings -- I use them all the time. | 20:19 |
| akk | But after you zoom, the window is probably the wrong size. | 20:19 |
| akk | View->Shrink Wrap can fix that, or you can set the two prefs under Image Windows, Zoom & Resize Behavior. | 20:19 |
| akk | (I always set those prefs -- it drives me crazy to have a small image in a big window.) | 20:19 |
| akk | <itnet7> QUESTION: Is part of the problem in learning from tutorials and such for new gimp users the differences found within options/locations between linux/windows or are the environments relatively the same? | 20:20 |
| akk | GIMP is almost identical on different platforms -- the only difference is in window manager behavior | 20:20 |
| akk | and platform-specific bugs, e.g. Apple's X11 doesn't support drag-n-drop. | 20:21 |
| akk | So tutorials should usually work well across platforms | 20:21 |
| akk | though not always across GIMP versions -- the UI has been changing lately and it will change again in 2.8. | 20:21 |
| czajkowski | 0:22 < mhall119|work> QUESTION: what interface changes are coming in 2.8? | 20:22 |
| akk | The big deal right now in GIMP 2.7 dev is "single window mode", where it will be possible to have everything (including all images) in one big window. | 20:22 |
| akk | That's something Windows users ask for a lot, partly because they're used to MDI and partly because Windows doesn't deal as well with lots of little windows as Linux window managers do. | 20:23 |
| akk | There are also a lot of drawing improvements, esp. for tablets ("brush dynamics") | 20:24 |
| czajkowski | 20:22 < faberglas1> QUESTION Can you reccomend any web tutorials or books for GIMP? | 20:24 |
| akk | and things like several tools combining into one, like all the transform tools (rotate/scale/perspective/etc). | 20:24 |
| akk | Well, I'm biased but I kind of like my book. :) gimpbook.com | 20:25 |
| czajkowski | 20:24 < the_madman> QUESTION: A lot of my friends in college use Photoshop because they are graphics designers or artists, using tablets. One of the features that makes Photoshop so appealing to them is the ability to change the brush, e.g. the amount of faded pixels from the edge, pressure etc. While I've seen these features available | 20:25 |
| akk | There are TONS of good web tutorials, and even video tutorials like "meet the gimp". | 20:25 |
| czajkowski | in Krita, it fels less mature in comparison to the Gimp. Doess the Gimp support these | 20:25 |
| czajkowski | 20:24 < the_madman> configurable brushes in some way I haven't seen? | 20:26 |
| akk | I've collected some of the good tutorial collections at: http://gimpbook.com/links.html#gimptuts | 20:26 |
| akk | GIMP does support some of those brush operations -- in 2.6 there's a "Brush dynamics" tab in the paint tool options | 20:27 |
| akk | and Brush Dynamics is getting a lot smarter and more flexible in 2.8. | 20:27 |
| akk | It should be a lot better for artists wanting to draw with tablets. | 20:27 |
| akk | But even in 2.6 it can do some of that if you experiment with tool options. | 20:28 |
| akk | Okay, I was going to talk about brightness/contrast next, but time is flying by so I'll skip most of that unless people are dying to hear about it. | 20:29 |
| akk | I'll just mention that in the Brightness/Contrast dialog there's a feature new in 2.6: "Edit these settings as Levels" | 20:29 |
| akk | and from Levels, you can Edit as Curves | 20:29 |
| akk | which is a really cool and useful feature, so play with it if you want more control than regular brightness/contrast. | 20:30 |
| akk | A couple of questions I missed: <Xiella_> QUESTION: brush dynamics, do you mean rotatable brushes without using a plugin? | 20:30 |
| akk | Brush rotation is different from dynamics, but my understanding is that it will be in 2.8. (I hope that's true.) | 20:31 |
| akk | <Jesi> Question: You've been using GIMP for several years, and most likely keep up with the roadmap, what can we expect from GIMP in the future (this is an "intro" and I don't expect this question to answered unless time permits :) ) | 20:31 |
| akk | Because of time I won't try to give a detailed answer, but there are a lot of UI changes underway (there's a "gimp UI brainstorm" blog where some of this gets discussed). | 20:32 |
| akk | Now, a tip about rotation (this is another section that I'm going to cut shorter than I'd planned): | 20:34 |
| akk | most of you probably already know the free rotation tool (just after the Crop tool in the toolbox) | 20:35 |
| akk | Click on the tool, click in the image, drag around and it rotates. | 20:35 |
| akk | You can hit return when you're happy with the rotation -- no need to use the dialog that pops up (or use ESC to cancel). | 20:35 |
| akk | But sometimes you have a photo where the horizon isn't level | 20:36 |
| akk | like http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Hondarribia_Cabo_Higuer.jpg/800px-Hondarribia_Cabo_Higuer.jpg | 20:36 |
| akk | Instead of just rotating and trying to guess when it's roughly level | 20:36 |
| akk | you can go to Tool Options (usually right under the Toolbox) | 20:36 |
| akk | and look for the third option down, "Direction". | 20:37 |
| akk | Set that to "Corrective (Backward)". | 20:37 |
| akk | Then set Preview (farther down) to "Grid". | 20:37 |
| akk | Now, when you click in the image, drag so that the grid lines up with the horizon. | 20:37 |
| akk | Then when you hit Enter (or click Rotate), it'll rotate so that the horizon is level. | 20:38 |
| akk | I can't believe how long I went wishing for something like that and not knowing it was already there. | 20:38 |
| akk | BTW, there's been some discussion in -chat about rotating brushes to follow the direction of pen movement. | 20:38 |
| akk | That *may* make it into 2.8 (I hope, I hope) but it's actually possible to do that now with animated brushes. | 20:39 |
| akk | There's an "ant" brush somewhere on the web where the ants rotate following the direction of the mouse as you draw. | 20:39 |
| akk | But there's no documentation on how to make brushes that do that, so it's hard to make new ones. | 20:39 |
| akk | Okay, how is this going? Am I going too fast, too slow, too basic, not enough basic stuff? | 20:40 |
| akk | <johanbr> QUESTION: Have any usability studies been done with GIMP? If so, what were the results? | 20:41 |
| czajkowski | 20:40 < johanbr> QUESTION: Have any usability studies been done with GIMP? If so, what were the results? | 20:41 |
| akk | heh, sorry, czajkowski | 20:41 |
| akk | GIMP has a UI person in charge of the design, peter sikking | 20:41 |
| akk | who has sort of looked at usability though I'm not sure there have been actual formal studies. | 20:42 |
| akk | (I'd like to see some larger usability studies myself.) | 20:42 |
| akk | Question: Now my rotated pic has cricket borders, how to correct that? | 20:43 |
| akk | When you rotate, you end up with transparent edges. To get rid of them, use the Crop tool | 20:43 |
| akk | (the icon looks like a scalpel or x-acto knife) and drag in the image to include only the inner part. | 20:43 |
| akk | There's no way to have Rotate do that automatically, unfortunately. | 20:43 |
| akk | QUESTION: when I take a screen shot and want to add an arrow or circle something how do I do that? | 20:44 |
| akk | Great question! | 20:44 |
| akk | First, you definitely want to use layers for that. | 20:44 |
| akk | So you want to make sure your Layers dialog is visible. It should say Layers -- if you don't see a window like that, | 20:45 |
| akk | Windows->Dockable dialogs->Layers will bring it up. | 20:45 |
| akk | Then create a new layer: that's the New Layer button at the bottom left of the Layers dialog. | 20:45 |
| akk | Now you have a new transparent layer to draw on. that way, you can draw as much as you want but your original image is still safe. | 20:46 |
| akk | Now choose a drawing tool -- I usually use the Paintbrush. | 20:46 |
| akk | In the Paintbrush's Tool Options, there's a place to choose Brush. | 20:47 |
| akk | By default it's too big, so you probably want a slightly smaller brush (one of the small circles). | 20:47 |
| akk | Then you can scribble/draw on your layer. | 20:48 |
| akk | <mhall119|work> akgraner: for squares and circles, use the appropriately shaped selection tool to define it, then Edit->Stroke Selection | 20:48 |
| akk | (saved me some typing there :) | 20:48 |
| akk | and for straight lines, click on the start point, then shift-click on the end point. | 20:49 |
| akk | And that just leaves arrows -- making a good looking arrowhead is tricky | 20:49 |
| akk | and what I do is google for gimp arrow brush and download an appropriate set of brushes that include a bunch of arrowheads. | 20:49 |
| akk | <toobuntu> QUESTION: How can one smudge personally-identifying information out of a screenshot? | 20:50 |
| akk | There's actually a tool called the Smudge tool that works well for that. I've used it on license plates and such. | 20:50 |
| akk | You could also use the Clone tool or the paintbrush, but Smudge is usually enough. | 20:50 |
| akk | Running out of time, and I had two sets of things I really want to talk about, so let's see if I can get them both in. | 20:51 |
| akk | First, selection. That's how you select part of an image (e.g. just the koala and not the background) | 20:51 |
| akk | so you can paste it somewhere else. | 20:51 |
| akk | GIMP has a tool called the Free Select tool (or Lasso tool, from its toolbox icon) | 20:52 |
| akk | that was useless until 2.6 but is now awesome :) | 20:52 |
| akk | You can draw freehand with it, but you can also do click click click to connect-the-dots. | 20:52 |
| akk | I recommend turning on "feather" to make the edges of the selection slightly fuzzy | 20:53 |
| akk | (more fuzzy if you're trying to select a really furry animal, so you don't have to select individual hairs). | 20:53 |
| akk | But the real trick to selection is: don't worry too much about getting it right as you're connecting the dots with the Lasso tool, because you can fix it later. | 20:54 |
| akk | In your image window, at the lower left corner, there's a tiny inconspicuous button | 20:54 |
| akk | just to the left of the scrollbar | 20:54 |
| akk | marked only by a black and white dotted-line square. | 20:54 |
| akk | If you hover over it, it says "Toggle Quick Mask." | 20:54 |
| akk | The button changes to a red-outline square, to show you're in Quickmask mode | 20:54 |
| akk | and the image view changes to have red everywhere that's NOT selected. | 20:55 |
| akk | In the parts that ARE selected, you can see the image (no red mask). | 20:55 |
| akk | Once you're in Quickmask mode, painting black makes things NOT selected (red); painting white makes them selected. | 20:55 |
| akk | So you can zoom way in, to 500% or whatever, and get your selection details perfect. | 20:55 |
| akk | Click on the Quickmask button again to go back to normal mode. | 20:56 |
| akk | Eek, 5 minutes. Okay, the other thing I want to get in is two really cool GIMP UI tricks. | 20:56 |
| akk | First, dynamic key bindings. First you have to turn them on. | 20:56 |
| akk | Edit->Preferences, Interface, and check the box labeled "Use dynamic keyboard shortcuts". | 20:56 |
| akk | Now, if you bring up a menu, hover over an item and press a key (with a modifier, like shift/ctrl/alt) | 20:57 |
| akk | it will assign that key to that item. | 20:57 |
| akk | So e.g. I can click on Colors, hover over Curves (because I do Curves a lot) and type Shift-C | 20:57 |
| akk | and now every time I do Shift-C, the Curves dialog comes up. | 20:57 |
| czajkowski | QUESTION: How many people work on the GIMP code? | 20:58 |
| akk | Second is tear-offs -- if you have a menu you're using a lot (say, lots of things from Filters->Map) | 20:58 |
| akk | if you right-click in the image, you'll get a copy of the regular menubar menus | 20:58 |
| akk | only every menu has a dotted line at the top -- click on it and that menu "tears off" and stands as a window on the desktop. | 20:59 |
| akk | GIMP is a surprisingly small project. I'd estimate something like 5 active developers, maybe another 5 or so who contribute small amounts fairly regularly | 20:59 |
| akk | and then maybe double that number who contribute less often. | 20:59 |
| akk | Okay, I guess we're done. Thanks, all! | 21:00 |
| === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: Giving Useful Feedback with Murat Gunes || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| jcastro | thanks akk! | 21:00 |
| jcastro | mgunes, introduce yourself and take it away! | 21:00 |
| mgunes | jcastro, thanks. I'll take half a minute to tile my windows.. | 21:01 |
| mgunes | Hi. I'm Murat Güneş - I'm part of the Ubuntu QA team. | 21:01 |
| mgunes | In this session, I'll cover good practices in providing feedback of any sort to different participants in free software (such as developers, bug triagers, designers), and Ubuntu specifically, in different contexts. | 21:01 |
| mgunes | For the sake of brevity, I'll assume these contexts to be bug reports, development discourse, and design discourse. But as you'll note, the basic principles tend to overlap to a great extent, and apply to other areas as well. | 21:02 |
| mgunes | And as should be obvious, this is a much bigger subject than can be covered in an hour-long talk, so I'll try to provide links to some useful documents that those interested in more details can pursue. | 21:02 |
| mgunes | Please post your questions, if any, to #ubuntu-classroom-chat at any time you like, and I'll pause a few times to try to answer them. | 21:03 |
| mgunes | I'll avoid the classic dictionary definition and Open Week opening: "What is feedback, anyway?" :) | 21:03 |
| mgunes | Since, I'll be assuming we're all on the same page here: we're talking about feedback in social systems, and free software specifically - the act of making the output of your experience about a present social product known, in an effort to improve it in the future. | 21:04 |
| mgunes | The first context I want to talk about is perhaps the most obvious one: bug reports. | 21:04 |
| mgunes | The process of finding, reporting, triaging and fixing bugs in public space is a unique strength of the free software ecosystem. | 21:05 |
| mgunes | It's the ace in our hand, which the proprietary, in-house software industry lacks. How fast free software matures mainly depends on how fast it can afford to fail and be fixed, in public and in a distributed way. | 21:05 |
| mgunes | This, obviously, is where the value of good bug reports comes in. The more readily actionable bug reports are, and the more efficient the exchange that takes place in them, the better. | 21:06 |
| mgunes | I'll share some "absolute minimum" tips on making your bug reports more likely to be attended and acted upon by bug triagers and developers in a timely manner. | 21:07 |
| mgunes | 1) Be concise! | 21:08 |
| mgunes | Telling the long story of how your video card worked wonderfully with one Ubuntu release, but failed miserably on the next one, and how your friend who has the same card had no problems with either, may be tempting, but resist that temptation when reporting a bug. | 21:08 |
| mgunes | If you skip right to the heart of the problem, and just describe that, and add the necessary technical information, that's just enough. | 21:09 |
| mgunes | Keep in mind that people who evaluate bug reports have to read through hundreds of lines of bug descriptions every day. | 21:09 |
| mgunes | Having to read through long paragraphs to figure out what exactly the problem is can be exhausting, and can cause people to skip your report in favor of others which are brief and to the point, since there are always more than enough bug reports to attend... | 21:10 |
| mgunes | If you feel that you *must* tell a long story to put the bug in context, keep the main bug description to a brief summary, and tell the rest in the comments. This way, the main description is clearer and easier to read. | 21:11 |
| mgunes | 2) Follow up with your bug report. | 21:11 |
| mgunes | Launchpad will subscribe you to new bug reports you file, and send you mail each time someone comments on them. | 21:12 |
| mgunes | That is, unless you opt out by unsubscribing, which is rarely a good idea. | 21:12 |
| mgunes | Trying different combinations of settings and hardware configurations, trying to reproduce the bug under different conditions, testing proposed patches, responding to questions asked by developers and bug triagers are activities that are as important as the initial act of reporting the bug. | 21:13 |
| mgunes | 3) Make sure your bug report contains the required technical information, such as logs and backtraces. | 21:14 |
| mgunes | If you use the "Help > Report a Problem" menu item in most default Ubuntu applications to report your bug, or the "ubuntu-bug" command (which are the preferred ways of reporting bugs), the Apport bug reporting tool will take care of this for you. | 21:14 |
| mgunes | (For a detailed description of why it's rarely a good idea to report bugs directly at Launchpad, take a look at http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/03/31/please-dont-report-ubuntu-bugs-directly-to-launchpad/ .) | 21:15 |
| mgunes | Still, there may be cases where you may not be able to use Apport, or where Apport may not collect the required information. | 21:16 |
| mgunes | For these cases, there's one URL that everyone serious about helping Ubuntu through filing good bug reports should keep in mind (no excuses!): | 21:17 |
| mgunes | * drum roll * | 21:17 |
| mgunes | * curtains open * | 21:17 |
| mgunes | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures | 21:17 |
| mgunes | This beautiful wiki page has links to various documents about debugging different parts of your system, which are actively maintained by developers, QA engineers and dedicated testers. | 21:17 |
| mgunes | Whenever you're dealing with a mysterious crash, non-working hardware or problematic software, and you're stuck and don't know where to go, remember this page. | 21:18 |
| mgunes | One more thing regarding the use of Apport: | 21:18 |
| mgunes | As I said, the best practice is to report bugs using "Help > Report a Problem" or "ubuntu-bug". | 21:19 |
| mgunes | But if you've not been able to use these tools, or neglected to do so, but want debugging information automatically attached to your bug report later on, you can use the "apport-collect" command, given that the package you're dealing with has Apport hooks (here's a list of packages that do: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#Apport%20Hooks%20available). | 21:19 |
| mgunes | Just issue "apport-collect #123456", where #123456 is obviously the number of your bug report, and Apport will take care of the rest. | 21:20 |
| mgunes | <dscassel> Question: You find a bug, fire up apport and find someone's reported it, with a good debugging info, but nobody's touched it in months. Beyond clicking "this bug affects me" and maybe leaving a comment, is there anything I can do? | 21:20 |
| mgunes | Good question. | 21:20 |
| mgunes | It really depends on the nature of the bug, but usually, yes. | 21:21 |
| mgunes | One thing you can check is whether the log or backtrace is actually identical to yours. | 21:22 |
| mgunes | If not, and the software has changed over the course of the time that the bug has remained idle, you can attach your own debugging information. | 21:22 |
| mgunes | In general, whenever you have new, non-redundant debugging information, it's a good idea to attach it to the bug report, since you'll be adding new information that may further help evaluate the nature of the bug. | 21:23 |
| mgunes | Another thing you can do is stop by at #ubuntu-bugs and ask for assistance on whether there's something you can do about that particular bug. | 21:24 |
| mgunes | <Jesi> Question: generally people don't want bugs to happen, but say you want to look for any possible bugs, is there anyway to do system diagnostics and tsting other than the "System Testing" feature that comes with Ubuntu? | 21:24 |
| mgunes | There are various diagnostics tools not associated with Ubuntu, which you may pursue, but the best practical way of finding bugs, barring automated testing, is to actually use and test the software in question. | 21:25 |
| mgunes | Since time is limited, I'll conclude this part by citing some must-read literature on the nature of the bug cycle and good bug reporting practices: | 21:26 |
| mgunes | "Bug Reporting in Ubuntu" by Bryce Harrington: http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/drupal/node/35 | 21:26 |
| mgunes | "Equilibrium in Free Software Testing" by Matt Zimmermann: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/04/10/equilibrium-in-free-software-testing/ | 21:27 |
| mgunes | "The Bug Reporting Culture: 10 Things To Avoid, 10 Things You Must Do" by Fabian Rodriguez: http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/2008/01/18/the-bug-reporting-culture-10-things-to-avoid-10-things-you-must-do/ | 21:27 |
| mgunes | Any other questions? | 21:28 |
| mgunes | <Jesi> Question: What if you find a bug, that isn't really associated to any program as far as you know and your not given the option to send a bug report, like a little display quirk, and you generally end up in the forums, like for example: when I get a notification in GNOME, the display box is further down on the screen than it should be. | 21:29 |
| mgunes | It's a good idea to ask in the development and testing discussion forum whether the particular behavior you're getting may be a bug (don't forget to do a search!). | 21:30 |
| mgunes | That saves us lots of false positives and duplicates. | 21:30 |
| mgunes | If you can't be sure of the right package to report a bug in, take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage . | 21:31 |
| mgunes | If that doesn't help, feel free to ask in the forums, the #ubuntu-bugs channel, or the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list. | 21:31 |
| mgunes | The second context I'll touch on is development discourse. | 21:32 |
| mgunes | By this, I mean the general discussion surrounding development decision-making. | 21:32 |
| mgunes | Since time is flowing fast, I'll get straight to sharing my tips | 21:34 |
| mgunes | 1) Make sure you understand the original rationale. | 21:34 |
| mgunes | People often jump to conclusions about technical decisions that they don't agree with. While it's inevitable that there will be lots of technical decisions you don't agree with in a project as large and complex as Ubuntu, keep in mind that every design decision will make sense to someone, at some level, and a lot of consideration and planning goes into each one. | 21:35 |
| mgunes | It's very hard, if not impossible, to arrive at a good criticism of any decision without knowing its exact rationale. You may find yourself thinking that you knew what the rationale of a certain unpopular decision was, since lots of people in the "blogosphere", forums, Slashdot comments and the like keep reiterating it, often not very accurately. | 21:36 |
| mgunes | But it's always a good idea to be skeptical, and assume that you don't know the exact rationale unless you heard it first hand, from the source. The internet is very good at amplifying and spreading misinformation. | 21:36 |
| mgunes | 2) Be results-oriented. | 21:37 |
| mgunes | Discussing a critical piece of UI functionality, which compression algorithm to default to, or whether to manage windows this way or that way makes more sense can be very absorbing and even fun in itself. | 21:37 |
| mgunes | But it can lead people to losing sight of the tasks and goals at hand as well. | 21:37 |
| mgunes | Remind yourself that discussions are not an end to themselves, but a means to an end. And that beyond a certain threshold, every minute spent discussing is a minute spend not working. | 21:38 |
| mgunes | 3) Do not assume bad faith. | 21:38 |
| mgunes | Unfortunately, it's becoming increasingly common in many development-related discussions that one "side" assumes the other to have negative intentions, or a hidden agenda. | 21:39 |
| mgunes | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assume_bad_faith lists a number of things that, if you find yourself thinking, you should take some time off discussing. It applies pretty well to free software projects as well. | 21:40 |
| mgunes | (Warning: some "strong language" there.) | 21:41 |
| mgunes | 4) Make an effort to be original. | 21:41 |
| mgunes | Knowing about previous criticism and feedback, and trying to avoid rehashing is always a good idea, since people have limited bandwidth in which to deal with feedback, and it's best reserved to original feedback. | 21:41 |
| mgunes | Mailing lists are notorious, especially among newcomers, for being hard to search through, but tools such as Gmane (http://www.gmane.org/) and MarkMail (http://markmail.org/) make them easier to search for previous discussions. | 21:42 |
| mgunes | It's always a good idea to do a search to find out whether the particular idea you want to put forward has been brought up before. | 21:42 |
| mgunes | If there are no other questions, I'd like to continue with the last context I'll cover: design and "artwork" discourse. | 21:43 |
| mgunes | Discussions around design often tend to revolve around the notions of "like" and "dislike". | 21:44 |
| mgunes | The cases where stating your like or dislike of a particular piece of design is enough, or good feedback, are very rare. | 21:46 |
| mgunes | It's always a good idea to accompany statements of like and dislike with reasoning. Why do you not like it? | 21:46 |
| mgunes | Stating specifics helps: which parts? What does the design not allow you to do, and what goals in your daily usage does it make harder to achieve? | 21:47 |
| mgunes | (It's a good idea to mind the separation between tasks and goals. Goals are things you want to achieve by using the software. Tasks are particular bits you have to perform to reach your goals.) | 21:48 |
| mgunes | Many design discussions are concluded with the statement that "Design is subjective", thus there's no wrong or right. | 21:48 |
| mgunes | While there's room for subjectivity in design, it's not an arbitrary act of organization and beautification. | 21:49 |
| mgunes | It's done with specific goals and requirements in mind, and if those are not satisfied, the design can be criticized for being "wrong". | 21:50 |
| mgunes | Hence the tip I want to share: Mind what the design is trying to achieve, the criteria for achieving it, and the rationale for those criteria. | 21:51 |
| mgunes | If any of there are lacking in the discussion, or concealed, ambiguous or not well-stated, that's not a good discussion. | 21:51 |
| mgunes | Concentrate on obtaining this data first. | 21:51 |
| mgunes | Máirín Duffy of Fedora has a recent blog post where she cites some useful resources for evaluating design based on established principles and vocabulary: http://mairin.wordpress.com/2009/10/24/f12-wallpaper-sprinting/ | 21:53 |
| mgunes | <Jesi> Question: many people are often critical of prototype, alpha and beta releases, even though they are not final and are released to work out the bugs or to brainstorm, how can one get that message across so things can be productive instead of destructive? | 21:53 |
| mgunes | People who tend to over-criticize prototypes or early pre-release software tend not to be familiar with how free software development and desing works. | 21:55 |
| mgunes | While stressing the fact that "it's alpha" or "it's a prototype" can be useful per discussion, the better long term solution is to "teach people to fish" - to introduce them to the reasons why people release early and often, why prototypes and wireframes are opened to public scrutiny in the first place, etc. | 21:56 |
| mgunes | We're almost out of time; I can perhaps answer one more question, if you have one. | 21:58 |
| mgunes | <BlackNinjaVirus> QUESTION: Should we always fresh install ? ? ? | 21:59 |
| mgunes | No :) | 21:59 |
| mgunes | I think that concludes my session. Thanks everyone. | 21:59 |
| mgunes | I think that concludes my session. Thanks everyone. | 21:59 |
| nhandler | Alright, so I guess I'm up now | 22:00 |
| nhandler | My name is Nathan Handler, and today, I will be talking about Ubuntu Membership | 22:00 |
| === akgraner changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: Ubuntu Membership - Nathan Handler || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | ||
| nhandler | Ubuntu Membership is a way that the Ubuntu community recognizes people who have made substantial and sustained contributions to Ubuntu | 22:01 |
| nhandler | Ubuntu Members also gain certain benefits | 22:02 |
| nhandler | For example, all Ubuntu Members are entitled to an @ubuntu.com email address, a special ubuntu/member cloak on freenode, a site on people.ubuntu.com, and several other benefits | 22:03 |
| nhandler | A complete list of these benefits is available on the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership | 22:03 |
| nhandler | For several years, users who wished to be recognized as Ubuntu Members needed the approval of the Community Council | 22:04 |
| nhandler | However, the Community Council decided to delegate that power to the Regional Membership Boards | 22:04 |
| nhandler | We now have 3 Regional Membership Boards (Americas; Europe, Middle East, and Africa; Asia and Oceania) | 22:05 |
| nhandler | For most people in the community, you will want to go to one of these Regional Membership Boards in order to become a member | 22:06 |
| nhandler | However, there are a few other councils that can grant membership | 22:06 |
| nhandler | For instance, users who are active in the development community can go to the MOTU Council and apply to become a MOTU, Core Developer, or Contributing Developer | 22:07 |
| nhandler | Becoming a member of any of those teams will also result in you becoming an Ubuntu Member | 22:08 |
| nhandler | Other councils, such as the Kubuntu Council and Edubuntu Council, can also grant Ubuntu Membership | 22:09 |
| nhandler | I prepared a small chart to show the different ways that you can become an Ubuntu Member: http://people.ubuntu.com/~nhandler/membership.png | 22:09 |
| nhandler | Now, before I continue, do we have any questions? | 22:10 |
| nhandler | 17:23:08 < ? Jesi> Question: what kind of site do you mean? regarding people.ubuntu.com | 22:11 |
| nhandler | All Ubuntu Members are granted sftp access to a web-accessible directory on people.ubuntu.com (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeopleUbuntuCom) | 22:11 |
| nhandler | This directory can be used to host files are a website. However, anything you upload should be related to helping Ubuntu and be free. There are a few other restrictions as well, which are explained on the wiki page I linked to | 22:12 |
| nhandler | 17:23:45 < b1ackcr0w> Question: is contributing codethe only route to membership? | 22:13 |
| nhandler | No. Contributions can be made in any area of the community. You can contribute code, artwork, translations, documentation, help on the forums/IRC, or be active in your LoCo. These are just a few of the ways you can contribute, and all of them are looked at when you apply for membership | 22:14 |
| nhandler | 17:24:15 < ? openweek1> QUESTION - Do you have to be especially /particularly/ qualified to become a member? What is the prefered route from noob to membership? | 22:14 |
| nhandler | You do not need to be an expert in a certain area to become a member. You simply need to make significant and sustained contributions. | 22:14 |
| nhandler | There is also no particular route you must take. You should simply contribute to whatever area(s) you are interested in | 22:15 |
| nhandler | 17:24:32 < sebsebseb> QUESTION: If people have been banned from #ubuntu a few or more times in the past, but since then have become rather useful and very active helpers in #ubuntu could they ever get accepted as a community member, whilst continuing to use the name that had been banned from the channel in the past? | 22:15 |
| nhandler | In that situation, the ban would not be completely overlooked. However, if one of the membership boards sees that the user has really changed since being banned, and has made significant and sustained contributions to the community, it is still very possible for the user to become an Ubuntu member | 22:16 |
| nhandler | 17:24:55 < sebsebseb> QUESTION: What do you think of the entry requirements and success rate of applications? | 22:17 |
| nhandler | The success rate of applicants is tough to talk about. From my experience, users who are able to show the membership boards proof of their significant and sustained contributions (usually documented on their wiki page), have testimonials from other Ubuntu Members, and overall come prepared to the meetings tend to be accepted for membership. | 22:19 |
| nhandler | However, membership is definitely not granted to everyone. I have seen many users asked to re-apply in a few months due to not having *sustained* contributions (usually for several months) or not having their contributions documented on their wiki page | 22:20 |
| nhandler | However, I feel that the requirements for membership are fine. They are pretty vague, which allows them to be applied to a large number of different types of people with different types of contributions | 22:20 |
| nhandler | 17:26:11 < sebsebseb> QUESTION: Is helping loads of people online and only/mainly onlilne ever enough to become accepeted as a community member? | 22:20 |
| nhandler | Helping people online (both on IRC and on the forums) are great ways to contribute. The one challenging thing about this is that it is very hard to document contributions made on IRC. I would strongly suggest backing these types of contributions up with strong testimonials from other Ubuntu Members | 22:22 |
| nhandler | 17:28:09 < sebsebseb> QUESTION: Is it true that to become a community member, will have to do things in person with the community? | 22:22 |
| nhandler | No. You do not need to participate in a LoCo or work with other Ubuntu users in person to become an Ubuntu Member. However, contributions to a LoCo definitely count as a form of contributing to Ubuntu | 22:23 |
| nhandler | Alright, I think I got to all of the questions. | 22:23 |
| nhandler | Now, I'm sure many of you are wondering about some ways to improve your chances of being accepted as an Ubuntu Member | 22:24 |
| nhandler | My biggest piece of advice would be to document all of your contributions on your wiki page as you go. | 22:25 |
| nhandler | Having all of your contributions documented on your wiki will allow the membership boards (as well as other people) to see all of your contributions in one convenient place. This will also help you determine when you have met the "significant contributions requirement" | 22:27 |
| nhandler | I would also suggest that you sit in on a few Regional Membership Board meetings prior to applying | 22:28 |
| nhandler | This will allow you to see how the meetings are organized, the types of contributions other users made in order to become members, and better determine if you are indeed ready to apply | 22:28 |
| nhandler | Now, being an Ubuntu Member also carries some responsibility | 22:29 |
| nhandler | You are representing the Ubuntu community. As a result, you need to be sure you are abiding by the Ubuntu Code of Conduct | 22:29 |
| nhandler | Since Ubuntu Membership is a privilege, not a right, it can be revoked for severe violations of the CoC or other inappropriate behavior that reflects poorly on the community | 22:31 |
| nhandler | I would like to address one question that I have been asked on many occassions... | 22:32 |
| nhandler | "How long do I need to contribute before I can become an Ubuntu Member?" and "How much do I need to contribute before I can become an Ubuntu Member?" (I lied, there were 2 questions) | 22:33 |
| nhandler | There is no magic amount of time or number of contributions | 22:34 |
| nhandler | There are guidelines and suggestions for what "sustained" means, but there are no strict requirements for either of those questions | 22:34 |
| nhandler | When asked these questions, I normally tell people that they will know when they are ready. If you are really not sure if you are ready, I would suggest waiting a little longer, contributing a little more, and then re-assessing the situation. You should only apply for membership once you believe you are ready. | 22:36 |
| nhandler | Alright, I'll answer a few more questions now | 22:36 |
| nhandler | 17:28:09 < sebsebseb> QUESTION: Is it true that to become a community member, will have to do things in person with the community? | 22:38 |
| nhandler | 17:49:03 < aim1159> QUESTION: most of the contribution made by non native speakers made via their native language. and most of ubuntu members are english/european langiage speackers. hwo to deal with that - there few ubuntu members who can read russian, for example, how person from russian-speacking country (for example) can apply for memebership? how he could proove testimonials? | 22:38 |
| nhandler | Alright, speaking english is not a requirement to contribute to Ubuntu or to become an Ubuntu Member (although it does make things easier) | 22:39 |
| nhandler | If you are unable to speak english, I would suggest trying to find a user who can translate your messages during the membership meeting. This will make things go a lot smoother. Otherwise, as a last result, you can use Google Translator (or a similar service) | 22:40 |
| nhandler | If testimonials could also be translated to English (with the original present on the wiki page as well), that would also speed up the process. | 22:40 |
| nhandler | 17:50:50 < ianto> QUESTION: Has another title been considered other than "Ubuntu Member" since we are all members and representitives of the Ubuntu community | 22:41 |
| nhandler | I personally have not heard any discussion about changing the title. However, I can not say for certain that none has taken place. And although we are all "representing" the Ubuntu community, Ubuntu Membership makes you an official representative (which is why only Ubuntu Members are entitled to Ubuntu business cards for example) | 22:42 |
| nhandler | Any more questions? Please remember to include "QUESTION:" at the beginning so I can easily spot them | 22:43 |
| nhandler | 17:56:07 < mhall119|work> QUESTION: I have a ubuntu-derivative called Qimo designed for kids, a lot of my contribution has been towards that. Would it count towards Ubuntu membership? | 22:44 |
| nhandler | From my experience, the membership boards tend to prefer contributions made to Ubuntu itself | 22:44 |
| nhandler | If you have packages in Qimo that are not present in Ubuntu, or special artwork, you might consider getting those into Ubuntu | 22:45 |
| nhandler | 17:56:16 < aim1159> nhandler: the question was not about how can a non-native english speacker apply for ubuntu membership. it was about how can a regional board recognize that this person have made a big thing for ubuntu and that is not. there is now doubt when some person have made some code or translation contributions, but if he just do some learning | 22:46 |
| nhandler | courses ordo advocating ubuntu? how can thris be counted? | 22:46 |
| nhandler | For online courses, this is pretty easy to prove. Simply link to the IRC Logs from the course. For real life events, it gets a little more difficult. If you have a script that you used, uploading that to the wiki would be awesome (it would also allow other users to benefit from it). Testimonials are another great way to show this | 22:48 |
| nhandler | 17:57:50 < mhall119|work> Followup Question: If I contribute Qimo's packages to Universe, would the contribution count then? | 22:48 |
| nhandler | Yep. Packaging applications for Ubuntu are valid contributions. Although, if all of your contributions are in the form of packaging, you might consider applying for membership through the MOTU Council | 22:49 |
| nhandler | 18:00:25 < mhall119|work> QUESTION: are contributions to 9.04 at this point still valid contributions? | 22:49 |
| nhandler | Yep. Contributions to 9.04 (Jaunty) are still valid contributions to Ubuntu, and can be listed on your wiki page when applying for membership | 22:50 |
| nhandler | 18:00:57 < ianto> QUESTION: Does the free time of the applicatant have any bearing upon the membership results? I for example have spent 12 hours a day writing essays and then contribute in small ways to Ubuntu and it's community. Is this considered at all? | 22:50 |
| nhandler | The members of the membership boards know that everyone has other real life obligations besides Ubuntu. They keep this in mind when deciding whether or not to grant membership to a user. | 22:51 |
| nhandler | Even if you can only contribute to Ubuntu for one hour each day, as long as your contributions are significant, and you continue contributing for a sustained amount of time, you can become a member | 22:53 |
| nhandler | 18:04:13 < sebsebseb> QUESTION: Surely if you think about it having Ubuntu Membership in the first place, is a bit like saying to people, well we are better than you when it comes to Ubuntu, because we are community members, and you are not? | 22:53 |
| nhandler | This should never happen. Being an Ubuntu Member does not make anyone "better" than anyone else. I would be very concerned if you have actually experienced this taking place | 22:54 |
| nhandler | If there are no more questions, then I guess I am done here | 22:58 |
| nhandler | If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me or send me an email | 22:58 |
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