[00:26] <Ahmuck> is there a way to audit user accounts on a system?
[00:31] <Ahmuck> under a multi user system, isn't the user's directories supposed to be in-accessible from other users?
[00:38] <mhall119> Ahmuck: no
[00:38] <mhall119> they're usually not writable by other users
[00:40] <Ahmuck> readable by others?
[00:53] <mhall119> the base of the folder is, yeah
[00:54] <Ahmuck> opening individual images/documents?
[00:54] <Ahmuck> opening of ?
[01:55] <sbalneav> Evening all
[03:44] <Ahmuck> ok, back to user directories.  should user directories be "locked" to prevent traversing them?
[04:02] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: Depends.
[04:03] <sbalneav> How are you planning on sharing files?
[04:03] <sbalneav> Are you going to create separate "shared areas" for your people to share documents?
[04:03] <Ahmuck> well, isn't "Public" a shared folder for public?
[04:03] <sbalneav> Public, where?
[04:03] <Ahmuck> my concern is students traversing home directories and "snooping" in other student's files
[04:03] <sbalneav> In a users home dir?
[04:04] <Ahmuck> yes, it's here on our system by default
[04:04] <Ahmuck> each user's home directory has a "Public" folder
[04:04] <sbalneav> yeah.  In my view, it's kinda dumb.
[04:04] <sbalneav> here's how we do it.
[04:04] <sbalneav> Each user has their own primary group
[04:05] <sbalneav> so I'm sbalneav:sbalneav
[04:05] <sbalneav> my home dir is mode 770
[04:05] <sbalneav> and I set the umask on the system to be 007
[04:05] <sbalneav> I create a /home/share
[04:06] <sbalneav> owned by nobody:share, which is a group I create, gid > 10000
[04:06] <sbalneav> In the members of the group, I list all the userid's who need access to the share.
[04:06] <sbalneav> the mode on the share directory is 2770
[04:07] <sbalneav> i.e. the setgid bit is set.
[04:07] <sbalneav> that way, any user who creates a file in that dir, the file is created group owned "share"
[04:07] <Ahmuck> understood, that i agree with
[04:07] <sbalneav> That's how I've been sharing files at Legal Aid for 15 years.
[04:08] <sbalneav> it's always worked like a charm
[04:08] <Ahmuck> i'll probally make it "public" rather than share
[04:09] <Ahmuck> so, can your users drop into each other's directory and see their files? open jpgs, etc.?
[04:09] <Ahmuck> can they view what's in each other's directory?
[04:10] <sbalneav> no
[04:10] <Ahmuck> ie, my love letter to Daniel, etc.
[04:10] <Ahmuck> hrm, i must have something wrong on my system then
[04:10] <sbalneav> No you dont
[04:10] <Ahmuck> created a new user today, and that user can traverse any directory
[04:10] <Ahmuck> and view, open files, etc.
[04:10] <sbalneav> Sure
[04:10] <sbalneav> by default, the umask's set to 002
[04:10] <Ahmuck> so ur saying that the procedure above is what you use to restrict that?
[04:11] <sbalneav> and /etc/skel's got too wide a permission.
[04:11] <sbalneav> Well, I don't use the graphical user creator
[04:11] <Ahmuck> neither do i
[04:11] <Ahmuck> i use "adduser someuser"
[04:12] <sbalneav> since I use LDAP for my account creation, I have custom scripts for adding users.
[04:12] <Ahmuck> ah
[04:12] <Ahmuck> well, i'll touch base with you tomorrow, i'm exhausted today
[04:13] <Ahmuck> fell asleep on the floor at work today, napping
[04:13] <sbalneav> lsbalneav@phobos:/etc/pam.d$ ls -la /etc/skel
[04:13] <sbalneav> total 32
[04:13] <sbalneav> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  4096 2009-10-28 18:55 .
[04:13] <sbalneav> you'll want to start by toning down the permissions on /etc/skel, iirc
[04:13] <sbalneav> since it uses those to creat the home dir.
[12:31] <keffie_jayx> highvoltage: ping
[12:35] <highvoltage> keffie_jayx: pong
[12:47] <highvoltage> keffie_jayx: how are things?
[14:48] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:41] <highvoltage> morning sbalneav
[15:41] <highvoltage> sbalneav: I saw lts.conf.xlm for the first time yesterday... wow
[15:45] <sbalneav> which? In the docs you mean?
[15:45] <sbalneav> yeah
[15:45] <sbalneav> I've put a bit of work into that.
[15:45] <sbalneav> highvoltage: So, you in Canada yet?
[15:46] <highvoltage> sbalneav: not yet, it will probably be another month or so before I'm there
[15:46] <jbicha> is it cold in S Africa?
[15:47] <sbalneav> highvoltage: excellent!  We should be deep in winter by that time :)
[15:47] <sbalneav> Ping me when you're here, I'll gve you a buzz
[15:49] <highvoltage> sbalneav: I'll do so! I'm actually quite scared about the cold :)
[15:49] <highvoltage> jbicha: it's summer in south africa atm, so it's quite warm
[15:49] <jbicha> oh, I forgot
[15:49] <sbalneav> Well, it doesn't get down to -40C in Montreal like it does here.
[15:49] <highvoltage> jbicha: :)
[15:50] <sbalneav> Maybeeee -15 to -20
[15:50] <highvoltage> yeah coldest it gets in Cape Town is about 5C. coldest I ever experienced was about 1C when I was in Johannesburg last year
[15:51] <jbicha> it's still around 30C/90F this week here
[15:51] <highvoltage> jbicha: where is 'here'?
[15:51] <jbicha> Bahrain
[15:51]  * highvoltage loves Bahrain
[15:51] <jbicha> my parents live in northern Alberta though
[15:52] <jbicha> do you still plan on visiting Bahrain in a few months
[15:52] <highvoltage> jbicha: if there's time and if I can afford it
[15:53] <highvoltage> jbicha: I'd love to be able to take my father to a grand prix race, he's a big fan but has never been to one
[15:53] <jbicha> I expect to be living in the DC area next August so the climate should be more "normal" there
[18:16] <effie_jayx> highvolt1ge: ping
[18:19] <highvolt1ge> effie_jayx: pong
[18:21] <effie_jayx> highvoltage: did you ever find that guide on teaching kids about free software?
[18:23] <highvoltage> effie_jayx: no I didn't, at some point I'll have to do a thorough search on some old backups and get in contact with some people to see if they have it, I'm slightly worried that it might be gone forever
[18:26] <effie_jayx> highvoltage: I should show you what my daughter is learning at school
[18:26] <effie_jayx> the book is filled with WIN XP screenshots
[18:27] <effie_jayx> nothing against WIN XP SSs
[18:27] <effie_jayx> but even if she tried any other product from microsoft she would be so lost with the ui changes
[18:27] <effie_jayx> she is only 7
[18:34] <highvoltage> effie_jayx: ouch
[18:35] <highvoltage> effie_jayx: yeah it's been a big topic in some places, should you teach someone how to use a specific OS, or should you rather teach them general concepts that are universal that they can use everywhere?
[18:35] <highvoltage> effie_jayx: it's also a similar issue with openoffice vs ms office
[18:36] <highvoltage> effie_jayx: in some institutions they spend lots of time teaching very specific parts of specific versions of ms office, then one day when the user has to move to another version or to another office suite, they're not sure how to figure out where to find the features
[18:36] <LaserJock> it's really hard even with different versions of MS Office
[18:37] <LaserJock> I've got MS Office 2007 here at work and I have no idea how to run the thing
[18:45] <keffie_jayx> yeah, but it is just scary how fosilized that can get
[18:45] <keffie_jayx> m dughter has been using linux as long as I have
[18:47] <highvoltage> keffie_jayx: just saw your private dents... did you perhaps mean http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/static/docs/cookbook.html ?
[18:47] <highvoltage> keffie_jayx: that was more meant towards teachers than kids :)
[18:49] <keffie_jayx> highvoltage: right right
[19:03] <keffie_jayx> highvoltage: right... but it is still good quality material
[20:01] <highvoltage> wow, welcome to everyone who joined!
[20:02] <stgraber> great to see more people in that room ;)
[20:02] <ewaldmire> I hope the group doesn't mind a follow-up question about LTSP-Cluster.... I'm just having a hard time finding more info about it:  Is it ready for production use?  Is there a place with screenshots/more info?
[20:03] <highvoltage> I wonder if there's already any software packaged that we should include for special-needs students
[20:03] <stgraber> it's deployed and used by over 60000 users mostly in Canada and it's getting to be used in companies as well
[20:03] <stgraber> documentation is mostly available on http://wiki.ltsp-cluster.org
[20:04] <stgraber> you have a guide here "OpenVZ installation guide" on how to install it with OpenVZ, the same can be applied to physical servers
[20:04] <stgraber> the code and bug tracking is done on Launchpad at https://launchpad.net/ltsp-cluster
[20:04] <stgraber> and we unfortunately don't have screenshot of our web UI (maybe because I'm not exactly proud of it ;)) but we probably should have some
[20:05] <stgraber> of both the current web interface and the new one on which highvoltage is working at the moment
[20:05] <ewaldmire> stgraber:  Got it - that's what I was looking for.  Sounds like I just need to install it and check it out.  :-)
[20:05] <stgraber> the howto refers to the PPA as it was done for Jaunty, if you do it on Karmic, then you can simply use the regular package archive
[20:05] <stgraber> highvoltage got all the packages in the archive with karmic
[20:07] <rodneyorpheus> who should I talk to about getting a new package added to Edubuntu?
[20:09] <stgraber> rodneyorpheus: what software would that be ?
[20:09] <stgraber> I don't think we have a clear process there though we should establish a list of candidates and packages to work on during UDS
[20:09] <rodneyorpheus> Sandbox, it's a 3D game design environment for kids
[20:09] <highvoltage> rodneyorpheus: it's the same process as getting a package into Ubuntu, although you could bring it to our attention by filing a needs-packaging bug in launchpad and subscribing us to it
[20:09] <stgraber> so sending me a list before UDS is probably the easiest
[20:09] <highvoltage> rodneyorpheus: ah :)
[20:10] <stgraber> highvoltage: sounds like a great way of handling needs-packaging for education
[20:10] <stgraber> so just do as highvoltage said and I'll look at that list of bugs ;)
[20:10] <LaserJock> Sandbox has been around for a while
[20:10] <highvoltage> rodneyorpheus: they send us announcements to our lists when they make new releases, it's been on my radar for packaging work for a while
[20:10] <LaserJock> last time I looked at it needed some work to get it ready for packaging
[20:10] <rodneyorpheus> yeah, I was helping the devs and the GetDeb people make a debian package of the new version
[20:10] <highvoltage> rodneyorpheus: I've only become a motu last week, I'll add it to my list of things to package, but if anyone wants to beat me to it they are welcome :)
[20:10] <rodneyorpheus> so that's done now
[20:10] <rodneyorpheus> oh it's done
[20:11] <Jesi-Idle> there is going to be a web interface to?
[20:11] <rodneyorpheus> and working wel
[20:11] <LaserJock> rodneyorpheus: so you have a source package?
[20:11] <rodneyorpheus> source is available, and c_korn from GetDeb already made a working ubuntu package
[20:11] <stgraber> rodneyorpheus: I don't see the package in Debian itself so it won't get imported automatically, though if you have a source package, that'll help us include it in Ubuntu directly
[20:15] <rodneyorpheus> please have a look here
[20:15] <rodneyorpheus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/getdeb.net/+bug/256665
[20:15] <rodneyorpheus> sandboxgamemaker (2.4-1~getdeb1) jaunty; urgency=low   * New upstream version. (LP: #256665)  -- Christoph Korn <c_korn@gmx.de>  Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:05:28 +0200
[20:16] <rodneyorpheus> if that's any help?
[20:17] <rodneyorpheus> it's an excellent program, I'd really like to see it more widely known
[20:17] <stgraber> I'm adding an Ubuntu task
[20:17] <stgraber> done
[20:18] <rodneyorpheus> thanks!
[20:27] <Jesi-Idle> Question: I'm a guy and I support what your doin, I'm not really sure what to say for this session, and I think that goes for most here and is why you're not getting many replies, I've never had a problem when it comes to gender equality and it's something I promote,   but I know that allot of my male friends really aren't that sensitive here, but they often don't realize it, what steps can one take to make sure the eviro
[20:27] <Jesi-Idle> nment doesn't seem so male-dominated, because I garuntee you many guys are completely oblivious
[20:27] <Jesi-Idle> sorry wrong channel
[20:27] <HedgeMage> rofl
[20:37] <Ahmuck_> anki would be a good one to package
[20:53] <Lns> lol
[20:53] <Lns> Ok, do you need anything else from the store besides milk and bread? Oh, sorry wrong channel ;)
[20:56] <Ahmuck_> is everybody lost today?
[21:04] <Lns> Ahmuck: have you seen my baseball?
[21:05] <Sarten-X> I'm trying to prepare a set of disks for use in a school in rural Africa. The donated machines there have only CD drives, not DVD. Is there a smaller version of edubuntu available, or an easy way to produce one?
[21:08] <LaserJock> Sarten-X: would USB sticks be available at all?
[21:09] <Sarten-X> Possibly, but i'm not sure
[21:09] <Jesi-Idle> is you cant use any kind of USB/Thumb Drive.... I would suggest putting Ubuntu on a CD, installing it and then have them install the Edubuntu packages
[21:09] <LaserJock> the DVD image can be burned to a USB stick using USB Startup Disk Creator
[21:10] <Jesi-Idle> provided they have internet
[21:10] <LaserJock> and if not you might have to do something like AptOnCD
[21:11] <Sarten-X> What made Edubuntu so big? As I recall, 8.10 was only 300 megs or so...
[21:13] <LaserJock> Sarten-X: it was just an addon Cd with the educational apps
[21:13] <LaserJock> Sarten-X: it's now a full installation disk,so like Ubuntu + all the apps and language packs + LTSP rolled together
[21:15] <Jesi-Idle> hopefully it wont get so big we'll need to go blue-ray....... I'd like to see allot of stuff added....  but that may cause headaches
[21:15] <Sarten-X> oh... so it no longer needs a separate ubuntu install first?
[21:15] <LaserJock> well
[21:15] <LaserJock> Sarten-X: exactly
[21:16] <LaserJock> it's all in one
[21:16] <LaserJock> Sarten-X: we also added a Live session too where you can play around with it from the DVD without installing
[21:16] <LaserJock> similar to the Ubuntu Desktop CD
[21:16] <Sarten-X> can it still use a separate installation? Most of the machines wouldn't even run the desktop installer, and needed the alternate.
[21:17] <LaserJock> Sarten-X: the alternate is there too
[21:17] <LaserJock> the DVD has both
[21:17] <LaserJock> which is part of why it's so big
[21:17] <Sarten-X> ah... this is going to take more preparation than I was expecting...
[21:18] <LaserJock> well, we made the DVD so that hopefully it would need *less*
[21:19] <Sarten-X> oh
[21:19] <Sarten-X> no no no...
[21:19] <Sarten-X> it'll be less work for the person going over there...
[21:19] <Sarten-X> just I need to figure out logistics again
[21:20] <Jesi-Idle> I think the Live CD feature is going to be very important in getting people to try it.... is there/ will there be a WUBI version of Edubuntu?
[21:21] <rodneyorpheus> yes, WUBI would be great!
[21:22] <rodneyorpheus> the biggest problem is getting people to do that first install
[21:22] <rodneyorpheus> once they've crossed that barrier you're halfway there
[21:22] <rodneyorpheus> and WUBI is really good for that
[21:22] <Sarten-X> heh
[21:22] <Sarten-X> wubi is awesome
[21:23] <Sarten-X> it has only one problem...
[21:23] <Sarten-X> when I demonstrate it, I can only describe it as "magic"
[21:25] <rodneyorpheus> hehe, so true
[21:26] <rodneyorpheus> I use it to teach my students about alternative operating systems, and they honestly can't believe  that it will work
[21:45] <rodneyorpheus> good talking to you all - bye!
[21:55] <wiehan> where can I get an add-on iso for 9.10?
[21:55] <LaserJock> you can't
[21:55] <wiehan> LaserJock: that isn't cool
[21:55] <LaserJock> you need to either download the Edubuntu DVD or install via internet
[21:56] <wiehan> LaserJock: If I download the Edubuntu package from ubuntu 9.10 - How large download would that be megabyte wise?
[21:57] <LaserJock> wiehan: hmm, maybe 200MB
[21:58] <wiehan> I do not understand that, because Ubuntu is ~700mb + 200mb for edubuntu package, Edubuntu is 3.3gb?
[21:58] <LaserJock> well
[21:58] <LaserJock> there's a lot more to it
[21:58] <LaserJock> the Edubuntu DVD includes both text-based and graphical installers
[21:58] <wiehan> LaserJock: I understant that more stuff is on the DVD so that you don't have to download it.
[21:58] <LaserJock> and there are a whole lot of language packs
[21:59] <LaserJock> Ubuntu + educational apps is ~ 1GB
[21:59] <LaserJock> but we have both graphical and text-based installers, which doubles that
[21:59] <LaserJock> 2GB
[21:59] <LaserJock> then we have about 1GB worth of language packs
[21:59] <LaserJock> 3GB
[21:59] <wiehan> Ok, would there really be any other advantage than downloading the DVD versus downloading the edubuntu package (Except for not having to download stuff I want later)
[22:00] <LaserJock> well, if you already have Ubuntu installed, no, not really
[22:00] <LaserJock> with the DVD you can install everything together pretty quickly and you can also run the educational apps from the DVD itself (for demos)
[22:01] <wiehan> what does the "not really" part implies? Because I really can't download that much now, but I really want the best for the kid I'm doing this for?
[22:01] <LaserJock> wiehan: I can probably cut it down
[22:01] <LaserJock> wiehan: what age?
[22:01] <wiehan> LaserJock: I really do not mind for the stuff you just mentioned
[22:01] <wiehan> Age 12
[22:02] <LaserJock> hmm
[22:02] <LaserJock> you might try just installing ubuntu-edu-primary
[22:02] <LaserJock> I my machine that takes 218MB to download
[22:03] <LaserJock> unfortunately a lot of that is because of the KDE dependencies of KDE Edu
[22:03] <LaserJock> but it's a very nice suite of software
[22:03] <wiehan> I would just use gnome?
[22:04] <wiehan> Are there some default KDE apps bundled with the standard gnome edubntu?
[22:04] <LaserJock> yes
[22:04] <LaserJock> the KDE Edu suite comes with Edubuntu
[22:04] <wiehan> I understand
[22:04] <LaserJock> it's a lot to download but Gnome doesn't really have equivalent apps
[22:06] <LaserJock> if it was me I'd probably just install ubuntu-edu-secondary
[22:06] <wiehan> Can I just deliver one interesting comment: Edubuntu is Free, and Free is GREAT. Where does free-software have the most 'value'? The answer is simply put - in "poor" countries. "Poor countries" have expensive internet - then why only the DVD image? It makes no sense to some, like me, from where I come.
[22:09] <LaserJock> wiehan: well, its a complicated issue
[22:09] <Jesi-Idle> the dvd image is great for that very reason, if internet isn't an option you need another method....the DVD is that method.... that hope usually is the CD
[22:10] <Jesi-Idle> or DVD can be sent to you
[22:10] <LaserJock> wiehan: we hope that people can share DVDs as much as possible
[22:10] <Jesi-Idle> if you cant download it
[22:10] <Jesi-Idle> it's complicated
[22:10] <wiehan> Jesi-Idle: That is easy to say if internet has never been a problem.
[22:10] <LaserJock> the addon CD was causing use quite a bit of issues
[22:11] <LaserJock> one problem was basically stigma, people didn't think Edubuntu was a distro because it was an add-on
[22:11] <LaserJock> for instance, DistroWatch dropped us
[22:11] <wiehan> So why not create specialzed downloads: Like Edubuntu-9.10-English
[22:11] <LaserJock> we don't have bandwidth for it
[22:12] <LaserJock> internet is not just an issue for poor countries
[22:12] <LaserJock> we have only enough "hosting" space for 1 .iso file
[22:12] <LaserJock> we decided to make the most of it we could
[22:12] <wiehan> Doesn't the same amount for of smaller downloads equal less than the same amount times 3.3gb of downloads?
[22:12] <LaserJock> no
[22:12] <wiehan> LaserJock: Ah, but isn't hosting space a difference issue than bandwaith?
[22:13] <LaserJock> because we currently ship ~ 100 languages worth
[22:13] <Jesi-Idle> wiehan: you can install the packages on top of Ubuntu, provided language isn't an issue.... that's 200some MB yeah but have you seen an Ubuntu ISO less than 200Mb?
[22:13] <LaserJock> if we made a CD for each
[22:13] <LaserJock> it's something like 50GB easily
[22:13] <wiehan> LaserJock: I understand, just curious
[22:14] <LaserJock> yeah, we put off doing a DVD for years
[22:14] <LaserJock> *specifically* because of poor countries
[22:14] <LaserJock> it was not an easy decision to make
[22:14] <LaserJock> another big issue was that there was no way to demo Edubuntu using a Cd
[22:14] <Jesi-Idle> LaserJock: what is the storage and bandwidth limit you have to deal with?
[22:15] <wiehan> It still is tough for so many people to download 3.3gb (it takes for ages and it's expensive) - it really is tough to understand if you live in a first world country an Internet in an legal right even...
[22:15] <LaserJock> Jesi-Idle: Canonical will only host us if we limit ourselves to 1 .iso
[22:15] <LaserJock> wiehan: I understand
[22:16] <LaserJock> wiehan: hopefully if things progress we can do something better for people
[22:16] <Jesi-Idle> internet isn't a legal right here, were I live....  USA
[22:16] <wiehan> Jesi-Idle: Well, it still is dirt cheap and hell fast there
[22:17] <LaserJock> we don't often have usage caps in the US, which is a real issue in a lot of countries
[22:18] <LaserJock> even if it is slow here, we can just leave it downloading for however long it takes without a problem
[22:18] <LaserJock> my parents have a 2GB cap/ month I think
[22:18] <LaserJock> so they couldn't download it
[22:18] <Jesi-Idle> Wiehan: most of the time, like he said usage caps are the big difference......
[22:19] <LaserJock> anyway, I gotta run home
[22:19] <wiehan> but your "slow" is really different than ours
[22:19] <LaserJock> not always, you'd be suprised
[22:19] <wiehan> I still really appreciate what you guys are doing
[22:19] <wiehan> keep it up
[22:19] <Jesi-Idle> LaserJock: have you considered using other places to store filkes as well, like a mirrorbut a "mirror" per sey?
[22:19] <LaserJock> the US can have some of the worst internet connections on the planet
[22:20] <LaserJock> Jesi-Idle: well, we'd love to have just plain mirrors
[22:20] <Jesi-Idle> yep, when I had SB Yahoo, it went out all the time
[22:20] <wiehan> LaserJock: Do you often download stuff at a rate of 5kB/s
[22:20] <LaserJock> the problem is with the Addon Cd nobody was taking Edubuntu seriously
[22:20] <LaserJock> wiehan: my parents do, usually 3kB/s
[22:21] <wiehan> Well..
[22:21] <LaserJock> they just upgraded last week to a satellite internet thingy so they're no beyond a 28.8 modem :-)
[22:21] <Jesi-Idle> the internet, one of our biggest resources yet one of our biggest limitations
[22:21] <LaserJock> wiehan: it depends on where in the US you are
[22:21] <LaserJock> wiehan: some places are very fast, but some places have horrible horrible phone lines that can't take DSL, etc.
[22:22] <LaserJock> Japan has some screaming fast internet
[22:22] <LaserJock> man I wish I had their connections
[22:22] <wiehan> And I wish I had yours
[22:22] <Jesi-Idle> same, Japan has allot of the cool tech as well
[22:22] <wiehan> Anyways, I also need to go
[22:22] <LaserJock> a friend in Tokyo gets a 100MB/s optical T1 straight to his house for < $50 USD
[22:23] <Jesi-Idle>  LaserJock: are you serious? that would be so expensive in the US
[22:23] <LaserJock> wiehan: thanks for stopping by
[22:24] <LaserJock> Jesi-Idle: crazy I know, he has full mirrors of everything *buntu (archives, isos, etc.)
[22:24] <Jesi-Idle> I plan to set up a home server, if Fiver Oprics come out here, I'd be so happy.....
[22:25] <Jesi-Idle> I would to if I had that kind of connection :), what about Australia and China, do you know?