/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/11/05/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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dpm#startmeeting15:00
MootBotMeeting started at 09:00. The chair is dpm.15:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:00
adiroibanhi o/15:00
dpmso hello everyone, and welcome to this translations meeting15:00
dpmhi adiroiban :)15:01
happyaronhi15:01
dpmhi happyaron o/15:01
dpmwe've got a bit of a bad timing today, because we're on the same time as OpenWeek15:01
adiroibanyep15:02
dpmbut we can just go along now15:02
happyaronok15:02
dpmso just before we start, is there anyone else present for the meeting?15:02
dpmok, it seems there are no more people around. That's fine, let's kick off the first topic15:03
dpm[TOPIC] Promoting and using the Ubuntu Translations project15:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Promoting and using the Ubuntu Translations project15:03
dpmWe've talked about this in previous meetings15:04
dpmso far the feedback has been positive on the u-t project15:04
dpmand now that we're confident that it is working well15:05
dpmwe'd like to let people know about it15:05
adiroibanbefore making the big announcement we still need to define the bug reporting process15:05
dpmok, so we want to focus on bug reporting15:06
dpmfirst15:06
dpmwe've got https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ReportingBugs as groundwork15:06
dpmbut we should discuss other aspects as well15:07
dpmlike which tags we use and15:07
dpme.g. how do we triage them15:07
dpmadiroiban, I think you made some suggestions on the agenda page15:07
adiroibanyep. I tryind to experiment with various practice in handling bugs15:07
adiroibantried15:07
adiroibanone suggestion was not to mark „also affect this project” for bugs or errors in translations15:08
adiroiban„l10n” bugs15:08
adiroibanfor packages in main15:08
dpmyep, I think it's a good idea15:08
adiroibanif the package is not in main... then we need support from the developer/package maintainer15:09
adiroibanalso, I think we can stop using l10n and i18n tags15:09
adiroibanor make them optional15:09
adiroibanwith the new Ubuntu Translation project15:10
dpmon the first item, yes, then we can add the bug task for the relevant Ubuntu package15:10
adiroibani was not using them15:10
adiroibanok. sorry for not finalizing15:10
adiroibanok15:10
adiroibanso back to first issue - project assignation15:11
adiroibanif the package is in main, the bug is for Ubuntu Translations only and we can assign the ubuntu-l10n-CC team15:11
adiroibanwe can suggest/link in the description the string that needs to be fixed15:12
dpmI basically agree - we should then define a process for when the package is in universe, etc -> open a bug task for the ubuntu package, one for the upstream project, report it upstream and link the upstream bug to the upstream project15:12
adiroibanalso agree with bugs in universe :)15:13
* happyaron agreed15:13
dpmok, so we should probably add a section on this to the ReportingBugs page15:13
dpm[ACTION] Add section on project assignation to the ReportingBugs page15:14
MootBotACTION received:  Add section on project assignation to the ReportingBugs page15:14
adiroibanfor the UserDocs (ReportingBugs wiki) i was thinking only to add the info for opening but to Ubuntu Translations15:14
adiroibanand create another doc for handling bugs15:15
adiroibanI see 2 docs ReportingBugs and HandlingBugs15:15
adiroibanReportingBugs is the general audiance page15:16
adiroibanwith minimun info on it15:16
adiroibanjust the required info for users to open a new bug15:16
adiroibanI assume that many of Ubuntu users just want to underline an error in the translation15:17
adiroibanno need to explain them about universe / upstream / etc15:17
dpmadiroiban, ok, it makes sense to me. Documentation for the general audience should be concise and eays to read15:18
adiroibanthe HandlingBugs page is useful for Ubuntu translators and for people helping with QA / bug triage15:18
adiroibanyep15:18
adiroibanhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Filing%20translation%20bugs15:18
happyaronsounds good15:18
adiroibanthat is the place were we should put the general audience info15:19
dpmadiroiban, I agree. One thing I'd like to do is to check out with the QA team the wording used in the main page, so that they agree on the text we put there as well15:20
adiroibandpm: I agree15:20
dpmso, let's take this to actions:15:21
dpm[AGREED] Separate pages on reporting (general audience) and handling (translations team) bugs15:21
MootBotAGREED received:  Separate pages on reporting (general audience) and handling (translations team) bugs15:21
adiroibanI have added those info on the ReportingBugs page, just to have some information while we discuss the final version15:21
dpmgreat15:21
dpm[ACTION] Contact the QA team to review the text on the main community/ReportingBugs page15:22
MootBotACTION received:  Contact the QA team to review the text on the main community/ReportingBugs page15:22
dpmI can take care of that one ^15:23
dpmok, what I think we need to discuss as well15:23
dpmis tags, as Adi was mentioning15:23
dpmand Triaging (priorities and assignment)15:24
dpmthese would be good candidates for sections on the the HandlingBugs page15:24
adiroibanyep15:25
dpmLet's go on with tags, then15:25
dpmadiroiban, you were saying that the l10n and i18n tags might not be useful?15:25
adiroibanjust a general note: before seting the final version, maybe we should gain a little more experience with working with bugs.15:25
adiroibanI don't find them useful15:26
adiroibanall i18n bugs would be marked as also affecting a project15:27
dpmyeah, good point. I think we'll learn as we go along. And since the HandlingBugs page content is basically still for the translations team use only, I think we can be flexible15:27
adiroibanan l10n would only affect Ubuntu Translations15:27
dpm(my comment^ was for the point on bug handling experience)15:27
adiroibanright now this is my only comment for bugs... but maybe while working with Ubuntu Translations bugs15:28
adiroibanI will discover some good usage for tags :)15:28
dpmbut do the i18n tags really bring any disadvantage? It's easy to add them, and I find them useful for filtering15:28
happyaronI wonder if we need to track bugs for cjk fonts, for example15:28
adiroibanI was thinking at using a „need-lang-pack” update for bugs l10n in Hardy , Intrepid15:29
adiroibanand other lang-packs that need manual updates15:29
dpmand getting an overview of what bugs are technical and which ones are translation only15:29
dpmwhat about creating a wiki page for everyone's proposal's on tags? We can add which tags we think could be useful and discuss anv even vote them15:31
adiroibanyep15:31
happyaron+115:31
dpmthe person proposing a tag should reason why they'd like to see that tag used15:31
dpmand why they think it'd be helpful15:31
adiroibani agree15:31
dpmok, I think this could apply as well for triaging and assigning priorities15:32
dpmi.e. we could create a HandlingBugsBrainstorm page or similar15:32
dpmwith the points that need discussion15:32
adiroibanor just HandlingBugs15:32
adiroibanand create a braistorm section15:33
dpmyeah, that'd work as well15:33
dpmok, I think we all agree on that, don't we?15:33
happyaronagree15:33
adiroibanyep15:33
dpmis there anything particular you'd like to point out or discuss on triaging or priorities at this point?15:34
dpmI think that might need a longer discussion15:34
dpmat least the "how do we assign priorities" part15:34
dpmbut if there's anything you'd like to comment now15:34
dpmfeel free15:34
adiroibanwe should talk that after gaining some experience15:35
adiroibanI'm still trying to look over all new bugs and triage them15:35
dpmok, we'll just add a section and add content as we go along15:35
dpmso15:35
adiroibanafter that I plan to look at how we solve them :p15:35
dpm[AGREED] Add a brainstorm section to the HandlingBugs page, including: a tags section with proposals on which tags might be useful, a Triaging section with the agreed practices on triaging and assignments15:36
MootBotAGREED received:  Add a brainstorm section to the HandlingBugs page, including: a tags section with proposals on which tags might be useful, a Triaging section with the agreed practices on triaging and assignments15:36
dpmok, is there anything else you'd like to discuss on that point? Or shall we go to the next topic?15:37
adiroibanwe can go to the next topic15:38
dpm[TOPIC] Ubuntu Translations Announcements15:38
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Translations Announcements15:38
dpmadiroiban, all yours :)15:38
adiroiban:)15:38
adiroibanthe ideas is to write an announcement one15:39
adiroibanand let it spread over multiple communication channels15:39
adiroibanI saw David was using the LP announcement15:39
adiroibanbut I don't know how many people are reading / receiving them15:39
adiroibanI just wanted a brainstorming session15:40
dpmit sounds like a brilliant idea to me :) Do you have any ideas for the implementation?15:40
adiroibanabout how we can spread the word about Ubuntu Translations actions15:40
adiroibanright now, we send an email to ubuntu-translators ML15:41
adiroibanbut I don't know if from there15:41
adiroibanit will also reach the ML for each team15:41
happyaronplanet will be good15:41
adiroibanso maybe planet-ubuntu is a first step15:41
dpmone easy way to reach the planet is the Fridge15:41
adiroibanin letting translators know about various actions15:41
adiroibandpm: we can just add the Ubuntu Translations Announcement RSS via to planet-ubuntu15:42
adiroibandpm: we can just add the Ubuntu Translations Announcement RSS direclty to planet-ubuntu15:42
dpmthat's a good point15:43
dpmI'd only have to have a look at how to do it :)15:43
adiroibanI don't know to much about how fridge works15:43
dpmbut seems doable15:43
adiroibandpm: all ubuntu member have access to planet.ubuntu.com config file15:44
adiroibanand RSS url is http://feeds.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/announcements.atom15:44
dpmadiroiban, I know, but the ubuntu-translations project is not exactly a member :)15:44
adiroibanthen we can look at the fridge :)15:44
dpmI'd have to ask around on what permissions and checks are made to feeds added to the config file15:45
adiroibanbut debian package of the day15:45
adiroibanis not a member15:45
adiroibansame for Kubuntu feeds15:45
dpmadiroiban, I also think it's doable, I just would have to ask. I don't know right now if it's just a matter of adding the feed15:46
adiroibanok15:46
adiroibanin planet.ubuntu.com15:46
dpmAnyway, just as additional info re: the Fridge, the news team publishes15:46
adiroibanwe have a lot of announcement feeds from other Ubuntu teams15:46
dpmnews people send to them15:47
adiroibanserver / studio / screencast  / packaging / qa15:47
adiroibanok15:47
dpmyes, this could be of course expanded. The RSS announcements from ubuntu-translations can only contain text15:48
dpmif we were to use a blog for the whole translations team or the Fridge, we could also post pictures and other content15:49
adiroibanI would start with small steps :)15:49
adiroibanand see the feedback15:49
dpmadiroiban, yeah, yeah :) I was just mentioning it15:50
adiroiban:p15:50
adiroibanbut if there is a nice integration between a blog and LP teams15:50
dpmI think there isn't, but I'd have to check15:50
adiroibanwe can use it :)15:50
dpmyep15:50
adiroibanwe can look at Ubuntu server blog15:51
adiroibanand see how they manage it15:51
adiroibanok15:51
dpmadiroiban, that would make for a good topic on the translations roundtable on UDS15:52
adiroiban:) if you say so :)15:52
dpmsure15:52
adiroibanI just want to make sure translators are aware of Ubuntu Translations annoucement15:53
adiroibanlike the ubiquity string freeze15:53
adiroibanthose are important announcements15:53
dpmanyway, for now I can look at adding the rss feed to p.u.c or directly publish the announcements on the Fridge15:53
dpm[ACTION] David to look at adding the ubuntu-translations rss feed to p.u.c or directly publish the announcements on the Fridge15:54
MootBotACTION received:  David to look at adding the ubuntu-translations rss feed to p.u.c or directly publish the announcements on the Fridge15:54
adiroibanok. If we agree to post announcment is a single place15:54
adiroibanthe next step would be to add the feed in a public place15:55
adiroibanok15:55
dpmadiroiban, I agree, but I still cannot see how this can be technically implemented15:55
adiroibanwhy ?15:55
adiroiban:p15:55
adiroibanor where do you see the problem15:55
adiroiban?15:55
dpmwhich application would you use to write the announcement once and get it automatically published to the ML and p.u.c?15:56
adiroibanLaunchpad15:56
adiroibanhttps://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+announce15:56
dpmadiroiban, which current LP feature would you use for that? AFAIK, we cannot automatically publish announcements there to the ML15:57
adiroibanas I workaround I will write a script for that15:57
dpmadiroiban, that was my question15:58
adiroibanand look into LP announcement code to also queue a message via email15:58
adiroibanok15:58
dpmadiroiban, ok, but I think for now15:59
dpmit's just as easy as a woraround until such script is implemented, to:15:59
dpm1) write the announcement on u-t15:59
dpm2) copy the text and send an e-mail to the ML16:00
adiroibanyep16:00
adiroiban:)16:00
dpmA big improvement would be to additionally add the u-t feed to p.u.c16:00
dpmand I think that's something we could already look into16:00
dpmif it's as easy as adding the feed to the planet's config file16:01
adiroibanregarding planet.ubuntu.com, maybe we can ask for feedback from community-council16:02
adiroibanor you can ask your team for feedback :p16:02
dpmheh, yes, I can do that :)16:02
dpm[ACTION] David to talk to the Community team about translation feeds on p.u.c16:03
MootBotACTION received:  David to talk to the Community team about translation feeds on p.u.c16:03
dpmok, unless there are any other comments, let's have one last topic quickly, we're over time, but I think it is an interesting one16:04
dpmwhat do you say?16:04
adiroiban :)16:05
adiroibanwe can continue16:05
happyaronok16:05
adiroibanuh... task ... that is one useful tag :)16:05
dpm[TOPIC] Current Translations tasks16:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Current Translations tasks16:05
adiroibanhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bugs?field.tag=task16:06
adiroibanregarding kdelibs and other kde problems , I think we will talk at UDS16:06
dpmok, let me add an action to remind us of that16:07
adiroibansame with APT. I think I will be in the same plane with mvo16:07
adiroibanand I will talk about apt / synaptic upstream translations16:07
dpm[ACTION] David to add kdelibs task to the Kubuntu UDS session16:08
MootBotACTION received:  David to add kdelibs task to the Kubuntu UDS session16:08
dpmadiroiban, synaptic's upstream is now Ubuntu AFAIK16:08
dpmmvo is the maintainer16:08
dpmapt is still probably Debian16:08
adiroibanyep. so debian is not using synaptic ?16:08
adiroibanI don't know if mvo is exporting the LP translations into the synaptic source package16:09
happyaronadiroiban: AFAIK, yes, it is using16:09
adiroibanhttps://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/synaptic16:10
dpmadiroiban, we'd have to ask him if he's doing that, but we can just as well look at the bzr branch commits16:10
adiroibanbetter to look into commints16:10
mvodpm, adiroiban: I'm not importing them automatically currently, I do import them if someone asks me16:10
adiroibancommits16:10
adiroiban:)16:10
dpmthere you go :)16:11
mvowe should have a quick chat about it at the plane and/or uds :)16:11
dpmcool16:11
mvoI'm fine with moving synaptic to LP, apt is a bit different, debian is heavily involved in the translations there16:12
mvobut I got some questions myself, so uds is a good opportunity to discuss that :)16:12
adiroibanyep16:12
adiroibanno hurry16:12
adiroiban‏‎next task bug 3958116:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 39581 in linux-source-2.6.15 "SoundBlaster Live! 24-bit recognized as SB AudigyLS" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3958116:12
adiroibanhm...16:13
adiroiban:)16:13
dpm:)16:13
adiroibanhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/39581216:13
ubottuUbuntu bug 395812 in ubuntu-translations "Change Ubuntu translations policy from Structured to Restricted" [High,In progress]16:13
dpmok, on the next task on the list, I've finally managed to contact the TB16:13
dpmregarding this, and I've created a page with all relevant information:16:13
dpmhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators/OngoingProjects/SwitchToRestricted16:14
adiroibanok16:14
happyarona question, if we turn to restricted, can people aren't in the respective translation teams make suggestions as well?16:15
dpmhappyaron, that will only affect languages without a team assigned in the ubuntu-translators group16:15
adiroibanhappyaron: everyone can make suggestions16:15
happyaronoh, I see, thanks16:15
dpmI'm sorry it's taking that long because it's been blocking on me, but I'll make sure it moves forward16:16
adiroibanok16:16
adiroibannp16:16
adiroibanwe have already talked about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/45596616:17
ubottuUbuntu bug 455966 in ubuntu-translations "Ubuntu translations bug reporting process " [High,In progress]16:17
dpmok16:17
adiroibannext would be https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/39581116:17
ubottuUbuntu bug 395811 in ubuntu-translations "Improve templates priority assignment" [Medium,In progress]16:17
dpmI haven't scheduled an extra session on that, but I think we could talk about this at UDS as well, and actually perhaps even bump the importance to High16:18
adiroibanthe feedback is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TemplatesPriority16:19
adiroibanI think I will have to clean / format16:19
adiroibanthe wiki page16:19
adiroibanand then set the priorities16:20
dpmadiroiban, yes, I know the page from the previous discussions. At the moment you are the only one working on that, and I think UDS will be a good chance to get together and get more people involved16:21
dpmin helping on that16:21
adiroibanok16:21
dpmAnyway, I propose leaving the Wishlist items for a future discussion and end the meeting unless there are other comments or final points to discuss16:22
adiroibanyep16:22
adiroibanthe new locale definitions are ok16:23
adiroibanfor Chuvash I'm working with upstream developer to include it in glibc16:23
happyaronI think we can have a page on how to create new locale16:23
happyaronsince I only have seen adiroiban working on that, and feel helpless myself16:23
adiroibanyep. I just wait to get more experience in working with locales16:23
rustic_hello, what do you think of Project Timelord? particularly, it states: the Launchpad Translations system is counter-productive to achieving the goal of a localized, human KDE experience"16:24
adiroibanand then I will try to write a wikipage / FAQ16:24
happyaronadiroiban: good, :)16:24
dpmhappyaron, we've got https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/AddingNewLanguage, perhaps adiroiban can add more info on the experience he's gained on defining locales16:24
adiroibanrustic_: I think we can talk about that in #ubuntu-translators16:24
adiroibanI don't know anything about that project16:24
rustic_okay16:25
adiroibanand no aware of any discussion on ubuntu-translators mailing lists16:25
dpmrustic_, for the record, here are my thoughts -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2009-November/003481.html16:25
adiroibandpm: rustic_ do we have a link to the project ?16:25
happyaronadiroiban: kubuntu.org announcement16:25
dpmadiroiban, I CC'd ubuntu-translators, did you not get the e-mail?16:25
adiroibanbut that is vague16:26
adiroibandpm: I got that email16:26
happyaronadiroiban: there is a detailed PDF you can read16:26
adiroibanbut I don't know how to put those info into context16:26
dpmanyway, let's finish the meeting and move this discussion to #ubuntu-translators16:26
adiroibanok16:26
happyaronok16:26
dpmThank you everyone for your participation16:26
dpmand see you on the next one! :)16:27
adiroibanrustic_: please join #ubuntu-tranlators16:27
adiroibanyep16:27
dpm#endmeeting16:27
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:27.16:27
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bodhi_zazenTechnoviking: poke =)21:50
jdongok i'm gonna take 10 minutes at the start of the meeting to grab some food21:50
bodhi_zazenI have an unexpected meeting today, I will miss the FC meeting, although if it goes long enough I may be back21:51
Technovikingowie21:51
bodhi_zazen'lo jdong21:51
jdongbut I'll have my iPhone on me21:51
jdongwhich gets IRC highlights pushed instantly21:51
jdongso I won't be terribly gone ;-)21:51
bodhi_zazenI just wanted to introduce the T&E team and it seems there is general agreement to close the 64 bit forum21:52
bodhi_zazenI am neutral on a video drier forum, tending to -121:52
Technovikingdo we have concenous on the #ubuntuforum irc21:52
bodhi_zazenand that is all that is on the agenda =)21:52
bodhi_zazenwe are I think 1 shy at the moment21:53
jdongTechnoviking: I think we're just missing input from Ryan21:53
jdongwhich I'd like to hear before sending out a reply21:53
bodhi_zazengotta run, sorry =(21:53
Technovikingjdong: sounds good21:54
Technovikingbodhi_zazen: later21:54
jdongbodhi_zazen: see ya21:54
jdongok, be back in 10 minutes.21:58
Technovikingok21:58
Technovikingany ome else here for the Forums council meeting, we will start in a few22:04
jdongok I have returned :)22:10
Technovikingthink it is just us22:10
jdongsure looks that way22:10
jdong*looks at agenda*22:10
jdongof everything on the agenda, I think the only thing trivial that we can do with the turnout is close the 64-bit forum?22:11
jdongin the staff forum we've got pretty much universal consensus on that22:11
TechnovikingAn announcement has been posted and and 64 bit prefix have been added22:12
jdong*nods*22:12
Technovikinganyone else want to comment about this?22:12
Technovikingvery good, I'm glad to see 64 bit is close enough to 32 bit that it does not need to be separate anymore22:14
jdongyeah, I am too22:15
TechnovikingAnything else we can discuss?22:16
jdongI don't suppose TormodVolden is around to talk about the video driver forum...22:16
Ms_Angel_DHello, I came to represent the T&E Team22:16
jdongok I'm reading the pastebin right now22:17
Ms_Angel_Dactually jdong we have this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forestpixie/Sandbox22:18
jdongah very nice; that should be added to the wiki replacing the pastebin22:18
jdongI'm generally positive on the idea22:20
Ms_Angel_DAfter many conversations the wiki represents what we as a group feel could help the issue's presented22:21
jdongbut unfortunately I don't believe the council has enough of a presence to make decisions on it this meeting...22:21
Ms_Angel_DI understand jdong22:21
Ms_Angel_DI just wanted to float it out there22:21
TechnovikingMs_Angel_D: We will forward the link to them and get the discussion going22:22
Ms_Angel_DThank you very much Technoviking22:22
TechnovikingI have not heard from anyone else, should we call it22:25
jdongyeah, I agree22:26
jdongthanks for coming, Ms_Angel_D22:26
jdonghopefully we'll have a more lively turnout next time :)22:26
Ms_Angel_DThanks for listening jdong, Technoviking22:27
jdongour pleasure22:27
Ms_Angel_DI understand ;)22:27
TechnovikingMs_Angel_D: thanks for coming22:27
Ms_Angel_D:D22:27
bodhi_zazenback =)22:35
jdonglol just a tad too late :)22:35
bodhi_zazensorry about that ;)22:36
bodhi_zazenis there anything we really needed to decide ?22:38
Technovikingnot now, we should vote on the video forum on the list, I feel it is a -1 for me22:41
bodhi_zazen-122:42
bodhi_zazenI feel it is best in the current sections, it is very hardware specific22:43
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