[00:00] that could be problematic [00:07] --with-kde uses pkg-kde-tools-0.5.2ubuntu1/debhelper/Debian/Debhelper/Buildsystem/kde.pm [00:07] looks like the rosetta magic needs porting to dh7 [00:10] Riddell: ok im coming [00:10] to uds [00:11] im still not sure about this hot tub thing [00:11] maco: yay! [00:11] nearest hot tub seems to be 4 miles away so you're safe [00:11] oh ok [00:12] how did you google the nearest hot tub? [00:12] their website lists nearby spa facilities [00:12] ah [00:12] there's no mention of anything on site [00:16] * JontheEchidna goes off to do other things while dh_shlibdeps runs [00:18] well I'm away for the next three days, keep merging and having fun [00:18] I just posted on that "looking for input" thread on kde-devel, hopefully that won't blow up while I'm away :) [00:18] qt and phonon uploaded [00:29] seele: Yes [00:34] it's really annoying, although it also made me realise that if you get multiple messages from the same application within a certain period of time, you dont need to show the 2nd to n messages, just the first one [00:35] the auditory ping is all you need [00:35] so say you send me 3 PM's within a few seconds of each other [00:35] message one should have a ping + notification box [00:35] message 2 and 3 should just have pings to let me know that you are still talking to me [00:36] because knowing you are sending more than one message means that the conversation is important [00:36] where if you were just sending me one message, you might have simply responded to a question, posted a link or some other mlp, or mentioned me in passing [00:37] what would be really awesome is if we could detect desktop behavior [00:37] so say you ping me, i switch from an app to the message, then immediately switch back to my original app [00:37] that could be a clue that i'm not involved in the conversation and doing other work [00:37] and so a "smart" system would forgo the visual notification and just ping me [00:38] and after a while, if it notices i *really* dont care about what you have to say, forgo the pings too and just collect the messages in whatever queue/indicator [00:38] hmmm [00:38] * seele is done brain dumping [00:38] but the out of sync pings are a realy problem [00:39] you start to wonder what the pings are about [00:39] or why the messages are flashing with no ping [00:39] and if the two are even related to each other [00:42] Yep [00:57] hi, how to get rid of the kwin error message when you restart kdm while you are under kde 4.3 karmic [00:58] In short, there isn't a way. (I assume you're using nvidia) [01:00] no [01:00] i want to install 3d drivers in live mode [01:00] evening [01:00] i tested fglrx [01:02] shtylman: Pack ear plugs for UDS. [01:03] why do you snore ScottK? [01:03] shtylman: You will think rgreening is exaggerating about how much he snores. He isn't. [01:03] oh yeah i've heard stories about rgreening [01:03] jjesse: rgreening. I shared a room with last time. [01:09] Riddell: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Kubuntu done, as well as fixing up the older pages as well [01:09] shtylman: You're in luck. I read the list wrong. It's txwikinger that needs the ear plugs. === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [01:41] seele: you don't happen to know how one disables the firewall on a *buntu box, do you? [01:41] I figured it out a few months ago, but rebooted this server and now I can't figure it out again [01:41] :-( [01:41] manual says it uses ufw, but I don't even have that installed [01:48] ufw isn't enabled by default anyway. [01:52] right [01:52] and whatever this is, it was enabled by default [02:01] Then it's not something installed by default. [02:01] What problem are you having. [02:03] sure it is [02:03] standard install of ubuntu server vm version [02:04] jeos-vm [02:04] or whatever it's called these days [02:04] from the first bootup I had to do something to allow access in [02:04] I just can't remember what [02:04] everything's running inside -- I can e.g. telnet 127.0.0.1 22, but I can't get in from outside on any port [02:04] which sounds a lot like a firewall [02:05] It does, but ufw is the only firewall and it's off by default. It's a bit odd. [02:09] agreed... [02:09] jefferai: #ubuntu-server is probably a better channel [02:10] ah, thanks [02:12] Why do I need earplugs? [02:12] because he snores [02:12] soooooo loud [02:12] rgreening that is [02:13] hehe [02:13] You don't know the Texas air.. It makes you so tired, you sleep anyway [04:09] txwikinger2: You don't know how loud he snores. [04:09] Well.. I will find out === txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger [04:10] Yes. You will. [04:11] I have been known to sleep through all kinds of stuff [04:12] * txwikinger wonders if he should start to help some merging work for lucid [04:48] hahaha [04:50] looks like Roderick is rooming with himself... [06:28] http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2355459,00.asp [06:28] kubuntu review [06:36] So it's not entirely clear to me that my last mail to kubuntu-devel was entirely CoC compliant. I'm reasonably certain I don't care. [06:45] it's not explicitly non-compliant, therefore I deem it compliant ;) [06:46] Excellent [06:47] I'm waiting for the reply that explains how qualified he is to have an opinion on something he's never used. [06:47] messages like the one you replied to is why I no longer read the kubuntu-users list any more [06:47] I'd just get too worked up and angry, and I'd just rather save the energy for other things [06:49] Yep. I don't read it anymore either. [06:49] The only 'user' list I read is ubuntu-server and that's both users and developers. [06:49] I guess I read devel-discuss too, but not in detail. [06:50] markey: Thanks. Not a bad review. [06:50] ryanakca: ^^^ what about adding the review markey mentioned in the review section of the web site. [06:52] If you do, make sure to link to the full version of the review (linked off that one) [06:55] ah yes, you have this CoC :) [06:55] it's just too tempting [06:55] what would happen if I, theoretically of course, said "fuck" here [06:56] :) [06:56] not that I would ever do such a naughty thing [06:56] Depends on if someone was annoyed. [06:56] !language | markey [06:56] markey: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly. [06:56] rofl [06:56] That's about the worst that would happen [06:56] there's nothing in the CoC about swearing [06:56] ok, but that's actuall sane, deciding on a case-by-case basis [06:56] we do it like that too [06:57] however the guidelines do disallow it [06:57] There's separate rules for IRC. [06:57] but people are invited to use all sorts of swear words on our channels, unless they are insulting someone (us, mostly) [06:58] there is an unwritten rule in IRC-land, that *-devel is self-governing [07:03] OK, snarky message number two launched (motu-council list this time). === maco__ is now known as maco [08:06] Hi guys. Not strictly Kubuntu related, but can someone tell my how a bug like this gets assigned low priority? It is a total showstopper for my SO's laptop. There is even a confirmed fix for it just lying around: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/418933 [08:06] Launchpad bug 418933 in linux "no internet connection (wifi+ethernet doesn't work)" [Low,Confirmed] [08:26] nhn: not the right channel IMHO, try #ubuntu-kernel if you can ping Andy Withcroft there. I would argu with: a) regression b) patch available. Don't fight the prio is wrong war ;) [08:28] ok, thanks. Looking in from the outside, a priority of "low" just strikes me as very odd even though int he end, if the bug gets fixed it does not matter much! :-) [09:16] JontheEchidna: btw I only get one unreleased fix when diffing sp bzr to what we have in karmic [09:24] hi [09:24] I was asked by some users about plans for 4.3.3 and jaunty [09:24] is that in the run or canceled ? [09:26] was never planned [09:27] hola [09:33] markey: that kubuntu review is the first time I've seen anyone complain about adblock-by-default, it's almost like he has a vested interest :) [09:44] apachelogger, JontheEchidna, Riddell: is sp in bzr fixed? can I continue with bugfixing? [09:44] * apachelogger didnt see any issue === keffie_jayx_ is now known as keffie_jayx [09:48] apachelogger: I co from bzr and it's not the code shipped in karmic but an older version [09:48] amichair: from what I checked out yesterday there is an extra fix in bzr which hasn't been uploaded to ubuntu, which makes bzr more up to date than karmic [09:48] bzr has software-properties (0.75.5) UNRELEASED [09:48] karmic has 0.75.4 [09:48] for example, the import key dialog shows gpg files. bzr version, like jaunty, doesn't [09:50] * apachelogger is wondering why rake on gentoo looks for the mysql socket in tmp -.- [09:51] the second tab is labeled 'third party software', like in jaunty, whereas in karmic it's 'other software'. etc... [09:52] or, I might be missing something :-) [09:52] (but I don't see what) [09:53] maybe your branch is all outdated? :P [09:53] bzr branch lp:software-properties [09:54] amichair: diff -urN is your friend [09:54] apachelogger: it's the first time I ever used bzr, a fresh co [09:56] Riddell: diff -urNad is superior to diff -urN :P [09:56] so [09:56] how about using redmine for project management? [09:56] * apachelogger lacks organization, and feels like a chicken running in circles [09:56] a blue headed step chicken if you will [09:56] apachelogger: is that part of ur recursion ex? [09:56] recursion is all implemented [09:57] n^3 steps to ensure every field of a labyrinth gets visited [09:59] woah [09:59] * apachelogger runs off for analysis [10:00] hehe [10:34] apachelogger: about redmine, that could even be interesting for replacing Buzilla in KDE [10:34] I'm so fed up with it [10:34] could spend all day with closing dupes [10:41] markey: Can redmine close dupes for you?? [10:43] Riddell: I just found a bug: when using the krunner in the Quicksand mode, typing Amarok it says "Amarok (KDE3, Audio Player)", which seems not so in Opensuse [10:46] MelisU: I don't know. maybe? [10:46] dupe detection is hard, but possible [10:47] anyone read about the mac file killing game ? [10:47] nope, link? [10:48] its only german one [10:48] http://www.nickles.de/c/n/gratisspiel-ballert-bei-mac-dateien-weg-8000.htm [10:54] great idea ;) kde games needs one of those [10:57] :D [10:58] meh, koffice-data-kde4 tries to overwrite an icon, which is also in krita-kde4 1:2.0.2-2ubuntu3. Riddell told me to make koffice-data-kde4 replace krita-kde4 (<< 1:2.0.2-2ubuntu3) but that does not work. I really do not know what to do next? :) [10:59] force the icon overwrite ? [11:00] or is it possible to remove krita before installing koffice [11:00] iam not so good in packaging [11:02] neversfelde: replaces krita-kde4 (<< [new-koffice-version]) [11:03] neversfelde: use the version your are packaging now for the replaces [11:03] Mamarok: quicksand mode? [11:03] Riddell: mhh, ok. I will try it. Thank you [11:08] Riddell, did you create any other blueprint for the Kubuntu translations session? I saw you renamed the desktop- one to kubuntu-, but it was still marked as superseded by the community- one: [11:08] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-lucid-translations [11:09] so now the community one has been scheduled instead [11:09] dpm: hmm, that sound be the other way around [11:09] kubuntu-lucid-translations is the one I wanted [11:09] Riddell, yeah, that's why I'm asking [11:11] can you un-supersed it? Then I can supersede the community- one and ask jono to remove it from the community track [11:11] btw 4.3.3 works fine but still printer apllet is stressing peoples :) [11:11] Riddell: in the Krunner, you can change the mode it works, default is Command oriented, Task oriented is Quicksand [11:13] Mamarok: I cannot confirm your problem, here quicksand says "Amarok (Medienwiedergabe)" [11:14] dpm: let me see how well this train internet works [11:14] ok [11:16] dpm: superceded removed [11:21] Riddell, ok, marked the community- one as superseded. I'll add some notes to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidTranslations. There's also a big red cross next to Sprints, so perhaps the blueprint will have to be re-targeted to Lucid [11:23] neversfelde: well, I have several apps that say "KDE3, description", so maybe the translation corrected that [11:23] * Mamarok goes making a screenshot [11:23] Mamarok: I'll have to finish my work and will test it with an english system after it [11:26] neversfelde: http://imagebin.ca/view/jO2mPRW.html [11:30] rickspencer3: can you accept kubuntu-lucid-translations for uds-l? [11:31] neversfelde: wait, I suspect it to be due to me not having the Karmic Amarok installed, but using git [11:47] 3 good newses: first, I figured out the sp bzr deal... as it turns out, the bzr was indeed up to date, but the diff consistent entirely of the introduction of the bug I was seeing! which made it look like the reverse diff is a bugfix, and bzr is the one that's behind... sorry for all the confusion I caused! [11:48] second, my first kubuntu bugfix ever was applied by someone from the bug report! mazeltov to me! [11:48] third, considering the first - now I have another bug to fix, with zero research required! [11:49] Hello! [11:49] I've found a bug, but I don't know in which package. [11:49] Could I explain it here? [11:52] Kottizen: go ahead [11:52] amichair: congratulations! [11:52] Riddell: Oke [11:54] Riddell: I've tried to install a graphic driver for my video card. I clicked to "Hardware drivers" and then it searched. It found a driver from ATI/AMD, same as on Ubuntu before. But, when I clicked the button "Activate" nothing happend. The button got pressed down, and then released, but I got no message or nothing. [11:56] Kottizen: that's a bug in jocket-kde which I think is already reported, you can search through the existing reports at bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey and/or report a new one with the command "ubuntu-bug jockey-kde" [11:56] ScottK: I'll add it when I get back from school tonight [11:56] it maybe just that you don't have a packge cache, try if apt-get update helps it [11:56] Okey, thank you. Is there any other way to install the driver? Like "apt-get" in the terminal? [11:56] Okey. [11:57] Updated. Do I need to restart? [11:57] WIIE [11:57] It works, thanks" :D [11:59] Does jockey-kde not run apt-get update on start? and if it doesnt, why not? [12:13] jussio1: no and it should [12:13] Riddell: ok, is there a bug? if no, Ill go file one... [12:13] jussio1: looking in jockey/detection.py says it queries some remote servers about hwids... but I don't see anything about apt [12:17] Do we have any DDs in the room that could sponsor knmap (fixes a FTBFS, package split) to Debian (so that we can then merge/sync it back into Lucid)? It seems to be rather difficult to get it reviewed and sponsored... [12:19] markey: it should become kde's management interface :D [12:20] :) === nookie^ is now known as nookie^afk [12:22] markey: take a look at the quelle logo http://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft/economist/520003/index.do?_vl_backlink=/home/index.do [12:23] in the context of it being a german company with an austrian sub [12:23] ROFL [12:23] :D [12:23] that blue hand? [12:23] aye [12:23] looks like the amarok logo, exchanged with a hand :p [12:23] haha [12:23] right hand I might point out [12:23] in a very precise angle too [12:24] gotta go jogging, bbl [12:24] Riddell: ryanakca hrm, that bug seems to be around from as early as jaunty dev cycle. bug 357134 [12:24] Launchpad bug 357134 in jockey "jockey-kde hungs on 'Activate'" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357134 [12:25] maybe something needs to be addressed there. [12:39] hm [12:39] redmine is like the master method [12:39] it is superior to everything else [12:40] evne launchpad :P [12:40] but that is naturally the case since lp is pyware and redmine rubyware :P [12:47] Riddell: now koffice is making progress, I think I will finish it today. Shall I upload it to the backports beta ppa? [13:08] neversfelde: more like staging or whatever is used for QA [13:23] apachelogger: ok, it is in experimental at the moment, but there is also Qt 4.6 [13:23] * apachelogger doesnt get that whole ppa crap anymore TBH [13:24] one big mess if you ask me === Quintasan1 is now known as Quintasan [13:39] JontheEchidna: dont get your comment on bug 53879 [13:39] Launchpad bug 53879 in kdenetwork "kppp menu entry should launch as root by default" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53879 [13:39] I get a kdesudo dialog when I launch kppp [13:43] JontheEchidna: you should read what people are writing :P [13:43] anyway [13:43] * apachelogger is reclosing [13:44] why should I bother to read a crappy forum post when they have a perfectly good bug tracker to explain themselves with? [13:44] right [13:44] JontheEchidna: close the bug next time :P [13:44] you either get being nice and read what they want you to know or be unfriendly and close the bug for some reaosn they will not understand anyway :P [13:45] at least I got to bitch about freedesktop.org [13:45] lol [13:46] yay [13:46] private bug [13:46] So I figured out why the # of reports around release was so low [13:46] * apachelogger tries to remember what crappy crap he was supposed to add to the url [13:46] apport was clogged and shat them all out yesterday [13:46] +secrecy [13:46] right [13:46] * apachelogger used privacy :D [13:46] one would think that privacy would be correct [13:46] shall I go bitch at that bug report agian? [13:47] how the freak am I supposed to remember that?\ [13:47] "O users of the holiest firefox..." [13:47] yeah [13:47] so [13:47] I am using chrome [13:48] * JontheEchidna too [13:48] which does not allow javascript deactivation per page [13:48] so deactivating javascript leaves me with not being able to triage bugs and do stuff on the university website [13:49] since lp decided to abandon konqueror and ignore it being default in kubuntu I cant use that either [13:49] secrecy [13:49] most obvious keyword :D [13:51] I remember talking to dfaure about bug 381447 [13:51] Launchpad bug 381447 in kde4libs "kded can't find "kded/networkstatus.desktop"" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/381447 [13:52] did he have any insight? [13:52] IIRC he agreed to remove the debug message all along so I can close the bug :P [13:52] oh, well we should have debug messages disabled by default in 4.3.1 and up or so [13:52] hence that kdebugdialog stuff that we have to do to get debug from our aps [13:53] it should have been disabled before as well :P [13:53] I know it was for 4.1, that is when I started using kdebugdialog at least [13:54] JontheEchidna: also, I think that particular message is different because it does not get assigned to a bug domain or something, so it is unaffected by kdebugdialog anyway [13:54] good thing apachelogger was intelligent enough to post code references in that bug report -.- [13:55] * JontheEchidna wishes qt4-x11 would get through binary new soon [13:55] * JontheEchidna is crazy enough to run lucid :x [13:55] apachelogger: interesting that you guys like redmine so much... I'm still undecided, we use it, and I like its flexibility, but it misses features and some users like bitching about it [13:55] users always bitch [13:55] but then they prolly bitch regardless of the tracker in use [13:56] ALWAYS [13:56] Sput: pretty much so [13:56] Sput: redmine 0.9 is going to be a lot nicer too [13:56] so I'm just not sure how redmine compares to the others, because all I know is Mantis besides [13:56] hmmm.. time to switch branches then? [13:57] JontheEchidna: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdelibs/kdecore/services/kservicefactory.cpp?r1=935291&r2=1018439 [13:57] Sput: not sure if it is that stable for production use yet [13:57] meh we probably use trunk anyway :) [13:58] so what are the killer features in your opinion? [13:59] plugins :D [13:59] Sput: I suppose the integration of management and issue tracking [13:59] ok [13:59] yeah I like how flexibel one can define a workflow [13:59] in launchpad you sometimes notice a lot that the parts are developed largely independent of each other [14:00] you have to jump through a couple of hoops to get from a translation bug to the affected translations and stuff [14:00] I see [14:00] interaction between blueprints (kinda like feature tracking) and bugs is close to none [14:00] mmmh... maybe I'll remembering updating our redmine to something current [14:00] trunk still seems to be 0.8 [14:00] though really, the blueprints stuff is quite the stub [14:01] Sput: http://www.redmine.org/wiki/redmine/Download that seems to suggest stable 0.8 is in a seperate branch [14:02] JontheEchidna: bug 289174 [14:02] Launchpad bug 289174 in kde4libs "missing Icons after Update to kubuntu 8.10" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289174 [14:02] what to do? [14:02] leave it alone? [14:02] if we can't resolve it this release close it I guess [14:03] nice, there's a FAQ plugin [14:03] JontheEchidna: we can't [14:03] I am not sure we want to either [14:04] oooh and a Vote plugin [14:05] and still no captchas :P [14:06] apachelogger: then we should close as can'tfix, except we ironically can't do that [14:07] cant fix as cant fix [14:08] with redmine you can :P [14:08] new status -> name = Can't fix; Issue closed [x]; Default value [ ] -> Create [14:09] hrrr [14:09] kdesudo --desktop /usr/share/applications/kde4/firefox.desktop -- kubuntu-firefox-installer -i [14:09] * apachelogger is quite the leet haxx0r [14:09] Tonio_: if you get round, kdesudo could use a release and upload to lucid [14:10] otherwise I can't upload nu kubuntu firefox instaler :) [14:17] apachelogger: now make redmine upstream implement proper captchas! [14:17] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~apachelogger/+assignedbugs [14:17] that is how we like it [14:17] Sput: dont know them :P [14:17] Tonio_ might [14:19] ulysses__: "I can't include the output of 'apt-cache policy kde4libs', because apt couldn't find this package." ... kde4libs is a source package, one of its binary packages would be kdelibs5 :) [14:20] aynone can tell me what is the fastest way to create man pages? [14:21] are there tools for that? [14:21] or just need to write the full thing manually? [14:21] for kde apps [14:21] install kdesdk-scripts [14:21] i use kde [14:21] kdemangen.pl /usr/bin/amarok > amarok.1 [14:21] falktx: only works for kde apps [14:22] doesnt matter what desktop environment [14:22] but the script parses KDE's standard --help output, so it only works for KDE apps [14:22] " Does jockey-kde not run apt-get update on start? and if it doesnt, why not?" <-- Doesn't help if you are depending on the wifi drivers jockey installs to get a network. [14:22] and even there not always completely correct [14:22] so no such tools? [14:22] if that is what I said [14:23] though I do not think that I said that [14:23] *shrug* [14:23] JontheEchidna: where do kernel bugs go? [14:23] apachelogger: linux source package [14:23] well, which one :) [14:23] "linux" [14:23] well [14:23] yeah [14:23] try to move a bug there [14:24] i.e. search for it first [14:24] all hail the launchpad limitations, it's like a way too small hat that launchpad thing :P [14:24] anyhow ulysses__'s crashes on restore from supsend seem to either be hardware related or the kernel eat memory addresses [14:26] JontheEchidna: thanks, linux seemed to have worked [14:26] \o/ [14:26] as long as you dont search for it :P [14:26] yeah, punt & forget [14:26] too many crashes in kde4libs [14:27] JontheEchidna: bug 440361 should stream up, I suppose? [14:27] Launchpad bug 440361 in kde4libs "kdeinit4 crashed with SIGSEGV in KJS::PropertyMap::mark()" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440361 [14:27] it was up in the 80s with tons of crashes from crappy python plasmoids from kde-look [14:28] crappy python [14:28] * apachelogger giggles [14:28] I guess, but without a testcase there's not much upstream will do [14:28] wasnt the idea that script plasmoids cant crash plasma? ;) [14:28] but as long as it's in their bugtracker and not ours... [14:28] * apachelogger woudl wish for sandboxing [14:28] well, it doesn't actually crash plsama [14:28] but apport detects all python exceptions as crashes [14:28] :) [14:29] interesting concept [14:29] probably makes sense at some level [14:29] Oo [14:29] kdebase 162 [14:29] wth [14:29] Python exceptions that aren't caught are crashes. [14:30] Sounds like the problem isn't catching an exception, but pointing the blame at the wrong package. [14:30] python itself is an unchaught exception from my POV [14:30] the python plasmoids in question are from kde-look, so they have no package [14:31] == closed faster than... something from texas or something [14:33] can not compute bug 465604 [14:33] Launchpad bug 465604 in kdebase "no input in konsole possible after switching from non kde application" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/465604 [14:33] cnc exception caught [14:33] restarting [14:33] Yesterday I got a bug on clamav that was from some PPA, so I not only invalid'ed the bug, but hunted down the PPA owner and asked them to remove clamav from their PPA. They actually did. [14:34] Speaking of random crap [14:38] someone stole the koffice 2.1 beta packages for karmic :) [14:40] apachelogger: half of the kdebase bugs are not-upstreamed/un-prioritized. Might be good to just go through and prioritize for when the lucid bug triage policy kicks in [14:40] when does it kick in? [14:40] now? [14:41] when the spec gets approved I guess [14:42] * apachelogger doubts that [14:42] who would approve the spec? [14:43] Riddell is the set spec approver for that spec [14:43] this also ties in with what we end up doing with apport crash detection, so it would be best to not enact new policy before we can ensure that apport will be disabled [14:44] especially if part of the spec is making the public aware of new policy [14:44] maybe I worry too much? [14:44] yes [14:44] because [14:45] technically what you just said overrides the kubuntu council [14:45] which, AFAIK has the last word on decisions of such large impact [14:45] so even when jr approves the spec it is not any more backed up than it is now :P [14:47] I suppose that's correct [14:47] I guess this will wait till the post-UDS meeting? [14:48] as usual [14:49] who does do the work? [14:49] us [14:49] so, who gets to decide? [14:49]