[00:07] is there anyway to install 9.10 but use the network driver from the 9.04 live cd [00:08] If you can let me know, Iḿ having issues with my laptop and have to use 9.04 ...... [00:08] the one that ships with 9.10 restricts my network speeds to 45kps [00:09] Was it something I said? [00:22] Doorman352: and DieSetter please join #ubuntu for support. === Xiella` is now known as Xiella [00:40] Hello! Does anybody knows some tutorial to install Ubuntu on Intel-based Macbook? [00:40] !install [00:40] Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues - Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate [00:40] Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues - Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate [00:41] rockstar: please join #ubuntu for further support [00:50] IdleOne, I think you're talking to the wrong one of us. :) [00:51] lol rockstar sorry [00:51] :) [00:51] but now you know :P === FFEMTcJ is now known as FFEMTcJ|afk === FFEMTcJ|afk is now known as FFEMTcJ === FFEMTcJ is now known as FFEMTcJ|afk === plars_ is now known as plars [05:09] 1/3 [05:09] ups === kamalx_ is now known as kamalx === lobo is now known as Guest46362 [06:55] hello everyone [06:56] amonch: This is #ubuntu-classroom. There is no class right now. If you are seeking help about Ubuntu, try in #ubuntu [06:56] been looking for someone who can teach me to set-up a server in a classroom laboratory [07:19] Hello [07:19] Im I welcome to this class? [07:20] Im a newbie to linux. May you assist me with all the necessary documentation to be able to setup a mailserver in ubuntu [07:21] exit [07:22] roots: This is #ubuntu-classroom. There is no class right now. If you are seeking help about Ubuntu, try in #ubuntu or for servers try #ubuntu-server === openweek0 is now known as slayersumy === DJones is now known as DJOnes === DJOnes is now known as DJones === FFEMTcJ|afk is now known as FFEMTcJ [10:59] No screensaver when running on battery [10:59] ? [11:01] jj3502: try in #ubuntu, this is no supportchannel here :-) === FFEMTcJ is now known as FFEMTcJ|afk === ursula_ is now known as Ursinha === dutchie_ is now known as dutchie === _stink__ is now known as _stink_ === nimai is now known as nimai_ === nimai_ is now known as nimai [13:11] Huhu. === ursula is now known as Ursinha [14:14] xubuntu is first when it starts right? === FFEMTcJ|afk is now known as FFEMTcJ [14:14] yes === mhall1191work is now known as mhall119|work [14:15] Thanks.I see you're helping presenting it :) Gotta be a good day for me, xubuntu, +1 and ofc..sabfl. [14:15] Gotta be! === kamalx_ is now known as kamalx === draco__ is now known as Jesi [14:30] jvc007 ? === akgraner_ is now known as akgraner === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: Xubuntu - Lot's of Kittens and Mice - knome and charlie-tca || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [14:59] Gooooood morning everyone [14:59] we'll start in one minute [14:59] with Xubuntu - Lot's kittens and mice [14:59] charlie-tca, you may begin whenever you're ready! [15:00] Thanks, [15:00] jcastro [15:00] I'm Charlie Kravetz, known as charlie-tca on irc and the mailing lists. I am Xubuntu Quality Assurance Lead. [15:01] We are going to talk a bit about my favorite flavor this morning, Xubuntu. [15:01] We will take your questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, and [15:02] will have a few minutes at the end to answer questions you hold on to. Feel free to ask questions at any time, [15:02] but please start them with QUESTION: so they easy to spot. For example, [15:02] QUESTION: What is Xubuntu? [15:03] The answer would then be [15:03] Xubuntu is Ubuntu with the Xfce desktop. Xfce emphasizes conservation of system resources, which makes Xubuntu an excellent choice for any system, new or old. [15:04] Notice, that does not say "old only" [15:04] I do run an Athlon amd64 to use daily [15:04] As a ubuntu derivative, Xubuntu maintains the same high standards and quality that Ubuntu has. We still have bugs to track down and resolve, and we do help with the bugs in Ubuntu also. Testing is a combined effort, since the releases are on the same schedule. [15:05] Xubuntu is an ideal candidate for older hardware or low-end machines, thin-client networks, or those who would like to get more performance out of their hardware. [15:05] QUESTION: With LXDE coming in as the new low-resource desktop, is XFCE going to shift to become more of a full-power desktop like Gnome and KDE, or will it try and lower it's resource requirements to compete with LXDE? [15:06] I don't see a need to shift at this time. Of course, Xubuntu does not drive Xfce, either. We incorporate it, just as Ubuntu uses Gnome. [15:07] As for lowering the resource requirements, there are many other distributions out there with lower requirements already. [15:08] As a ubuntu derivative, Xubuntu maintains the same high standards and quality that Ubuntu has. We still have bugs to track down and resolve, and we do help with the bugs in Ubuntu also. Testing is a combined effort, since the releases are on the same schedule. [15:09] Also, Xubuntu is the Xfce-based distribution with a native 64-bit architecture. We produce both a 32-bit and 64-bit versions, and ports for the Mac PowerPC and Sony PlayStation 3. [15:10] QUESTION: Are the PPC ports fully supported? [15:10] Great question! [15:11] Unfortunately, we can not fully support the ports. There are, however, two freenode channels where our developers with macs hang out [15:12] Both #ubuntu-powerpc and #ubuntu-ps3 are available [15:12] Question: GNOME and KDE are already fast, especially when compare some other OS's (not going to say which, we all know), is there really any need XFCE? how much of a performance boost is one likely to get? [15:14] Again, let's not confuse desktop environments with distributions. I agree, Ubuntu and Kubuntu are fast. Can I run them on a PII with a 400MHz CPU? [15:14] It has 256MB ram. I haven't been able to. I can run Xubuntu on it, though [15:16] QUESTION: How does Xubuntu respond to claims that it is rather fat for an xfce distro, and thus misrepresents xfce? Many people draw conclusions on xfce from xubuntu. Xfce itself is rather light. [15:16] Thanks for asking that. We agree with it. [15:17] As a dirivative of Ubuntu, we rely on a number of applications from Ubuntu. This does cause some bloating for Xubuntu. We attempt to keep as many lightweight [15:18] applications as possible, though. In 9.10, installed from the desktop cd, you pull in OpenOffice.org. You can remove it, and in Lucid, it will not pull it in. [15:18] The bloat is a price we pay for staying a part of Ubuntu [15:19] QUESTION: The Acer Aspire One and early Moblin demo's were based on XFCE, but recently UNR/Gnome, plasma-netbook/KDE and Clutter/Moblin have taken the limelight. Are there plans for an XFCE/Xubuntu netbook variant? [15:20] I don't have an answer to this at this time. [15:22] I have a question about why the gnome desktop ran after Xubuntu was installed along side of Ubuntu. [15:23] You can install Ubuntu or Kubuntu or both, then install Xubuntu. This allows you to switch between the desktops and applications as you wish. [15:24] Sometimes, when you do this, as you log in, you must tell gdm what session you want to run. At the bottom of the login screen, there is a selector for xfce, gnome, kde [15:24] This normally is invisible until you tell gdm who is logging in. [15:25] There is also a setting to tell the system if you want gnome, kde, or xfce to be the default environment [15:25] QUESTION: I am a new to Gnu/Linux, if Kernel, File system and Desktop is being developed by an independent communities. What exactly is ubuntu, Kubuntu or Xubuntu community is doing? Are they just combining all these components and giving it a new name? [15:27] Great question from a new Gnu/Linux user! In Windows, everything came from one place, basically, Microsoft. [15:28] In Linux, a desktop environment is built of many small applications. A distribution is built of many more applications, which may or may not include the desktop environment. [15:29] So, yes, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu are combining many applications to make something easy to use. [15:29] without them, it could take you two or three or four weeks of running programs without a graphic environment to get what we give you. [15:30] QUESTION: Xubuntu seems to be trying to look the same as the default Gnome setup in Ubuntu, why not do your own style like Kubuntu does? [15:30] Glad you asked! [15:31] I could not tell you what the desktop in Gnome looks like in Ubuntu 9.10 [15:31] I have not actually seen it. If it does look like Xubuntu, that was an accident on our part. [15:32] QUESTION: Does Xubuntu have any contacts with upstream? I remember there used to be an liason at one point. [15:34] Yes, we do maintain contacts with upstream. While we no longer have a liason in Xfce, we do talk to developers in Xfce daily, also with developers in Gnumeric, Exaile, and other upstream projects. [15:35] Well, that looks like enough questions for now. Hopefully, I answered all of them. If I missed yours, please ask it again. [15:38] As a dirivative of Ubuntu, we are not officially sponsored by Canonical as Ubuntu and Kubuntu are. Xubuntu receives no funding from Canonical. [15:38] All of the developers and team members are volunteers. [15:38] We report bugs found through launchpad. Brian Murray gave a great session on "Reporting Bugs" on Monday. If you missed that session, there are full logs of all the sessions maintained on the wiki. [15:39] Just go to the schedule, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/ , and click on the session you wish to review. I do much of the bug triage for Xubuntu, and most of our bugs in Xfce are forwarded upstream. [15:39] We do verify a number of the bugs reported to Xfce from other sources. [15:40] We work very close with upstream xfce, abiword and gnumeric bug teams to help resolve the bugs found. Once you report a bug, it goes through a process called bug triage. [15:40] You will find that I often triage the Xfce, Abiword, and Gnumeric bugs for this reason. I am also the bugsquad contact for these bugs. [15:41] We will work very closely to the Ubuntu bugsquad when triaging, and follow the guidelines set in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage. A very important idea in triaging for Xubuntu is that just because only one person had a failure, that does not make it invalid. [15:42] At this time, I would like to hit on some of the key points in Xubuntu 9.10, otherwise known as Karmic Koala. [15:42] Xubuntu now has Xfce 4.6.1, which included many bug fixes. [15:43] In work at Xfce is 4.8, which will have the menu editor. It is scheduled for final release April 18, which may be too late for Lucid, but could make the .1 upgrade [15:44] Xubuntu 9.10 includes the Exaile 0.3.0.x music player to make enjoying podcasts, streaming radio, audio books, and music library easier than ever before. [15:44] QUESTION: why was OpenOffice.org included now in 9.10, but going to be removed again in 10.04? [15:45] Good question! OpenOffice.org slipped passed the testers. It is not normally included in Xubuntu, due to the size. [15:45] It will be removed in future releases because it does not meet Xubuntu's requirements for lightweight applications. [15:46] QUESTIONS: Why does Xubuntu use GDM, rather than it's own Display Manager? Also isn't really XFCE just a window manager, instead of being a desktop environment such as Gnome or KDE? As for xubuntu-desktop it's just XFCE with some choosen apps right? If so that's probably why there isn't a XFCEDM, or whatever it would be called, because XDM already exists. [15:46] Thanks for asking, sebsebseb [15:47] Xubuntu uses GDM because it is included in Ubuntu. We are a small team, and if Ubuntu has an application that works for us, we can have our developers work on other, more important tasks. [15:48] QUESTION: What's going on with XFCE's settings backend? Is it going to use the same as Gnome? [15:50] Before I answer this, let me step back a minute [15:51] I want to touch on the names we use for a minute. Xubuntu uses many applications to maintain lightweight, usable environment. [15:51] Whether that application contains the name KDE, Gnome, Xfce, Lxde, etc, does not really come into the decision making process. [15:52] We are looking for applications that work the best for Xubuntu. If the name mattered, most applications won't work. If the name doesn't matter, many applications will work. [15:53] GDM is Gnome Display Manager. We use it for a log-in screen. It works for that. [15:54] Now back to mhall119|work question. We aren't using Gnome's backend. We do use the parts that work for us. [15:57] Does anyone know why was the name "Xubuntu - Lots of Kittens and Mice" given for this session? it does't seems to be related. [15:57] Let's tackle this one, even though it is not actually being asked. [15:58] Xfce's logo is a mouse. Xubuntu uses that mouse inside the "human circle of friendship" of Ubuntu. And, what good are mice without kittens? [15:59] The kittens chase the mice round and round [15:59] I want to thank all of you for being here. [15:59] If you want to join the *developer* team, there is #xubuntu-devel and there is also the developer mailing list, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: How to Run Ubuntu + 1 || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [16:00] thanks a bunch charlie-tca! [16:00] As part of one of the best, fastest growing distributions available, we welcome anyone who would like to assist in development, testing, and bug triage! [16:00] ok we'll give it a minute and then I will start the next session, how to run Ubuntu+1 "aka the development release" [16:01] ok [16:01] thanks for coming to my session, let's begin! [16:01] First off, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Jorge Castro and I work on the Ubuntu Community team doing upstream developer relations. I've been using Ubuntu since 4.10 (the Warty Warthog) and Debian for many years before that. [16:01] I've spent a great deal of time running developmental releases and things that generally break your computer, so I thought I would share this information with people, since I've been in the situation many times where I have turned my computer until a pile of molten slag. [16:01] I've written up some parts, we'll get through that - then we'll open up it up for some questions. [16:02] Recently I've noticed more and testers using the Ubuntu developmental release, what lot's of people call "Ubuntu+1". Currently Ubuntu+1 is the lucid "lucid lynx". [16:02] This is really good [16:02] because more testing is always needed [16:02] However just because you are testing doesn't mean you want your OS to stab you in the face. [16:02] Running +1 back in the old days was relatively easy because most of the users were already experienced with The Debian System(tm) and how it worked. However as more and more people started using Ubuntu and the promise of new bling crept around the corner more and more people started using it, and breaking it, so I thought I'd have a session on how to not blow up your computer. [16:03] First off [16:03] there are some guides out there already! [16:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/UsingDevelopmentReleases [16:03] and more recently http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1286309 [16:04] however I find that the best method is what you learn by sometimes painful experience! [16:04] Now, there are many ways Ubuntu developers run their development release. Some prefer apt-get, some do aptitude. I will be discussing the way I do it because I've managed to stay out of trouble for three releases in a row! Also, even if you use different tools the concepts I talk about will apply. [16:04] (some use synaptic, etc.) [16:05] So first off, let's talk about why you WOULDN'T want to run a a dev release like lucid [16:05] a) You need to get work done [16:05] and b) Computer downtime or dataloss isn't an option [16:05] so, for example I know many ubuntu developers stick to a stable release [16:05] and use pbuilder or a VM to test their packages [16:05] some people have multiple machines [16:06] I personally always keep my laptop on a stable release until beta-ish [16:06] but on my desktop I let it rip with the brokeness. [16:06] either way, you should ensure that your data is backed up and safe [16:06] Of course, if you use your computers for work I recommend using VMs or spare hardware [16:07] however [16:07] if you're a sysadmin or deploy ubuntu [16:07] setting aside spare hardware to help us test ubuntu would be most appreciated! [16:08] for most people, Virtual Machines will do the trick [16:08] unless you want to test hardware [16:08] so for example, if you have an infamous broadcom wireless card that doesn't work well, you might have problems [16:09] ok [16:09] so I am going to go through the steps that I take to run the release [16:09] the first step is to actually run it. :D [16:10] this is accomplished by downloading one of the alpha CDs, a daily CD, or upgradiing in place [16:10] If you download a new CD, you want to use something like a mirror or zsync to save bandwidth [16:11] if you upgrade in place I recommend "update-manager -d" [16:11] (old school fans, replacing "karmic" with "lucid" in your sources.list still works) [16:12] there are three major things you need to check before you upgrade [16:12] (and that goes for the subsequent daily upgrades) [16:12] here are the sources I check: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/lucid_probs.html [16:12] this one is handy [16:12] it tells you what's broken in the archive right now [16:13] so if you see important-looking things in here, you might want to wait [16:13] since it's the beginning of lucid it's not surprising to see kernel packages and stuff in there [16:13] the second thing to check is the -changes mailing list [16:13] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lucid-changes [16:14] which has the upload changelogs [16:14] here's an example [16:14] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lucid-changes/2009-November/000177.html [16:14] (protip, the RSS feeds for these packages are here: http://feeds.ubuntu-nl.org/UbuntuChanges ) [16:14] as you run the dev release you'll start to learn how to read changelogs [16:14] and why that's important [16:14] usually if you see a package you'll start to learn how things work [16:15] so for example if you see "New upstream release" in a small gnome game or something, it'll be safe [16:15] but if it's a bunch of kernel packages and a changelog miles long, that might be worrisome [16:15] after a while you'll learn about how packages interact with each other [16:16] and then the third thing I check is the dev forum: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=377here [16:16] By now if someone has a problem and can't figure it out [16:16] it might be posted here [16:17] With all three of those sources you should have a good idea how +1 is for the moment [16:17] remember that uploads happen all the time [16:17] so at any given point the archive is in a different state [16:17] I personally upgrade twice a day [16:17] once in the morning, and in the afternoon [16:17] and before each of those I check all three of those, just to be sure [16:17] ok, after that you decide "ok this looks safe enough" [16:18] or "no way, that's crazy" [16:18] that's when I do the update step: sudo apt-get update [16:18] a quick thing here [16:18] a bunch of people just think they can run +1 and have update manager just fire off daily and they can click a button and be happy [16:19] this probably will lead to tears [16:19] in fact, if you're not comfortable with apt-get (or aptitude if you use that) and dpkg itself you can easily paint yourself into a corner [16:19] so ensure that you read the man pages and documentation on those tools [16:19] ok [16:19] after the update you want to go ahead and do the upgrade [16:20] which is: sudo apt-get upgrade [16:20] now, here is where everyone gets confused [16:20] (if you've been ignoring the whole session this is the important part) [16:20] you always need to remember in the back of your head that the archive is always changing in a dev release [16:20] and things are connected in all sorts of ways [16:21] so for example, when calc uploads openoffice.org, it's a TON of packages [16:21] and sometimes it takes a while for things to build [16:21] so for large packages sometimes chunks land right away [16:21] sometimes not [16:21] plus you have to wait for the mirrors to propagate, etc. [16:21] so, in order to protect you [16:22] apt says "well, he's missing some parts, let me hold back these packages so it doesn't break" [16:22] when this happens apt tells you "the following packages have been held back:" and then a list of stuff [16:22] when this happens to me I let it hold those packages back [16:22] and let the upgrade continue [16:23] if I see a package held back over the course of a few days then I try to seperately apt-get installing them [16:23] so, let's say openoffice.org-awesomeness is held back [16:23] because the rest of OOo is building [16:24] in a few days I do "sudo apt-get install openoffice.org-awesomness" [16:24] now I get more detail [16:24] usually if it hasn't worked itself out it's because something significant has changed [16:25] sometimes it looks scary [16:25] it might say "library3 will be REMOVED, library4 will be installed" or something like that [16:25] so this means that someone has updated the libraries [16:25] so this is fine [16:25] and I just let it finish and it does the upgrade [16:25] sometimes a package is going through what we call a transition [16:26] so let's say program A used to use library A, but now wants to use library B. [16:26] this will cause it to be held back [16:26] so you'll have to go back and work it out [16:26] however, since you've read the changelogs I mentioned above [16:26] usually there should be no surprise [16:26] the maintainer will put in the log something like "transitioning this to libfoo" or something [16:27] there will also be announcements for major things on the development list [16:27] particularly with sensitive things like boot stuff [16:27] and since you also check the forums before you upgrade (right?) you'll see the scattered bodies of people who have not read the changelogs. :D [16:27] one thing I do NOT recommend [16:28] is just do sudo apt-get dist-upgrade [16:28] this is the cause of many problems [16:28] in fact, you'll see people posting this all over the internet [16:28] the "problem" with dist-upgrading blindly is that it does what it's designed to do [16:28] it reads the package lists of things that are supposed to be installed [16:28] and it doesn't really account for the archive changing [16:30] so it thinks "well, he said he wanted openoffice.org upgraded, but it's missing openoffice.org-awesome, however, I can't stand the package system being in an unknown state, so let's be safe an remove openoffice.org entirely" [16:30] this is how people end up removing half their GUI or weird things like that [16:30] so, remember dist-upgrade is for moving from stable release to stable release [16:31] if the archive is being uploaded to and dependencies are changing, this will doom you [16:31] so remember, just do a normal "upgrade" [16:31] and if something is held back, let it sit there a bit [16:31] and it will usually work itself out over the next few hours or days [16:31] any questions on this so far? [16:31] I want to make sure everyone is clear about the dist-upgrade [16:32] (ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat) [16:32] wow, no questions, awesome [16:32] ok [16:32] so, after you've done the upgrade, you're not done! [16:32] depending on what you upgraded you might need to do things [16:33] so for example if you have firefox open and firefox upgrades we tell you to restart firefox (just in case) [16:33] also, if you get a new kernel you'll need to reboot [16:33] if you get a new GNOME or KDE you'll want to log out and back in [16:34] while stable releases run great for days and days [16:34] during the devel release you'll want to make sure you're running the latest thing and given the program a chance to run [16:34] otherwise your bugs will be worthless [16:34] Question: where can we get the Lucid ISO? or do we have to install Karmic and go from there? [16:35] there are no ISOs at this point, you'll have to upgrade from karmic [16:35] ok, some other pointers [16:35] you can get a feel for what's going on depending on what week it is [16:35] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule [16:35] so for example [16:36] right now we're syncing with debian [16:36] and UDS hasn't happened yet [16:36] so there will be a bunch of syncs [16:36] also, if you look at all the freezes on the schedule you can also figure out how safe the archive will be [16:37] so, the week before feature freeze it's likely to be very busy [16:37] and during UDS week it's likely slowed down [16:37] I know some people who wait for a certain point [16:37] that's up to you [16:37] remember once you are running lucid when you update you're up to date [16:37] so if you get a Beta, and you do your updates [16:38] you won't need to download and reinstall RC [16:38] Question: We are syncing from testing for lucid, I think? How do you feel this would affect development, and those running it? [16:38] I think this will mean Lucid will have less bugs overall [16:38] and be a less bumpy ride [16:38] (but not right now, bunch of syncs happening) [16:39] unless you seriously want the crack, I don't recommend using lucid until at least alpha 1 [16:39] right now the toolchain and the lower bits are settling [16:39] and we haven't had UDS yet so it's just syncing [16:39] ok [16:39] let's talk about some other common problems [16:39] one you'll see a bunch is when you use a slow mirror [16:40] and apt spits out 404 errors [16:40] usually if you're using an official mirror trying again will round robin to another one and you'll get the packages [16:40] also, sometimes mirrors sync with others wrong [16:40] so it will rsync the Packages files and it just so happens that you want to upgrade and the mirror hasn't gotten the actual packages yet [16:41] this happens with large packages like OOO or eclipse or something [16:41] one thing I don't recommend (but people do) is to hammer the official archive mirrors over and over [16:41] also, if you have a bunch of machines, consider using squid or something to save bandwidth and load on the mirrors [16:42] because the archive updates ALOT [16:42] hundreds of megs a day sometimes [16:43] Any more questions? [16:43] Ok [16:43] so, remember that the reason to use +1 is to get testing [16:43] so it's important to make sure you report good bugs [16:43] Sometimes you don't know if something is a real bug [16:44] or if someone just broke something and is fixing it [16:44] when people get lost they post on the lucid forum [16:44] this is totally /fine/ and encouraged! [16:44] in fact some people flesh out bugs before they report them [16:44] "Is anyone else seeing this or is it just me?" threads can save from a bunch of us filing the same stupid bug in launchpad [16:44] causing the QA follks to have to go through dupes, etc. [16:45] so getting your ducks in a row before you report a bug can be very efficient. [16:46] Question: could you define "UDS" and "toolchain" and possibly tell us what Squid is? [16:46] Sure! [16:46] UDS is the ubuntu development summit, where we figure out what Lucid will be like [16:46] since Lucid will be a long term support release that's kind of obvious [16:46] "toolchain" are the bits that you build a distro on [16:47] so your compilers, guts, system level things [16:47] squid is a caching proxy, which will cache debs for you [16:47] there are a bunch of tools that can do that [16:48] if you deploy hundreds of machines you know what that is [16:48] if you don't understand some of the terms I'm talking about then for sure you should be trying this in a virtual machine instead of real hardware [16:49] after you've broken yourself a bunch of times you'll know when you're ready to run it full time. :D [16:50] Question: When does the development of the next release of Ubuntu start? Right after one is released [16:50] usually [16:50] right now we're scheduling sessions for UDS [16:51] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-L [16:51] all the information you need is linked from there [16:51] http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/ has the schedule [16:51] there will be icecast streams so you can follow along [16:51] and all the blueprints and documents are all available [16:51] I also plan to post many videos this time around! [16:52] Question: what are the development goals for Lucid? [16:52] that's what we do at UDS, figure those out [16:52] however Lucid is LTS so we already know certain things [16:52] like we'll be more conservative on things [16:52] and we'll concentrate on bug fixes all cycle [16:52] some people might call that boring [16:52] but rock solid is never boring. :D [16:53] Question: How does one join the development of Ubuntu? Beta testing is, of course, there; but what about main development? [16:53] Oh man, that session was yesterday! [16:53] but don't worry [16:53] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekKarmic/IntroDeveloper [16:53] start here [16:53] that should have everything you need to get started [16:53] QUESTION: Can I upgrade in place by editing /etc/apt/sources.list changing karmic to lucid? [16:53] Yep [16:53] that's how I used to do it [16:54] lately I get lazy and just do update-manager -d [16:54] also, this reminds me [16:54] if you have a bunch of PPAs or something in your sources.list you'll want to comment them out before an upgrade [16:54] also, if you're running a "mongrel" system with a bunch of PPAs, self made debs [16:54] and general crack [16:54] consider a clean install [16:55] instead of reporting bugs with all sorts of brokeness [16:55] ok that's all I have time for [16:55] I hope you guys are ready for Mark Shuttleworth! [16:58] Ok I've been informed that mark is having power supply problems [16:58] but it's getting sorted, please bear with us === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek (changes made, please check regularly) || Session: Ask Mark - Mark Shuttleworth || All questions go in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [16:59] While mark sorts out his PC [17:00] remember to put your questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [17:00] and akgraner and myself will paste them in [17:00] please try to have a good question, if it's easily googleable we'll likely skip it [17:02] welcome mark! [17:02] hello all [17:02] sabdfl, akgraner and I will paste questions [17:02] thanks jorge - happy to be here! hi amber [17:02] so just say "next" when you are ready! [17:03] fire away [17:03] feel free to kick it off! [17:03] QUESTION: What's your opinion of ChromeOS? [17:03] there's a lot of concern in the desktop environment groups (Gnome, KDE) that Chrome will be bad for desktop linux, but i think it will be very good [17:04] one of the toughest challenges for us in desktop linux is hardware compatibility [17:04] and ChromeOS gives PC manufacturers *another* good reason to invest in Linux compatibility for their peripherals [17:04] same goes for Intel's Moblin [17:05] i'm sure there are PC manufacturers now trying to figure out how to deliver Chrome. Since they don't know which peripherals and devices they will use, they are telling their suppliers "make sure it does linux" for *all* devices [17:05] that's got to be good for us too [17:05] next [17:05] QUESTION: We, at least in the US, have seen Apple's "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" ads. We've seen Microsoft's "Windows 7 was my idea" ads. When will we see Canonical's Ubuntu ads? [17:06] we do advertise, but mostly to the corporate market [17:06] i can picture our equivalent, though [17:06] it would feature a poodle for the mac [17:06] next [17:06] QUESTION: Hi from Saint Petersburg, Mark. Ubuntu is one of the first distributions to adopt 2.6.31 kernel, but many users discovered a lot of troubles with it - sound issues, disk issues, filesystem issues, usb issues. How could this happen? [17:07] i don't think there are substantially more issues with 2.6.31 than with .28 [17:07] but there are likely *different* issues [17:07] you don't notice the new things that work (especially if you don't have those devices) [17:07] but you definitely do notice regressions [17:07] i hope people tested the milestones, and reported bugs [17:08] for Lucid, we'll freeze the kernel earlier and call for more testing [17:08]