[00:20] <cprofitt> pleia2, you here?
[00:20] <cprofitt> doctormo, you here?
[00:20] <doctormo> cprofitt: sure am
[00:20] <pleia2> hey
[00:20] <cprofitt> cool :-)
[00:20] <pleia2> oh - WRT monday, I don't actually have a lug meeting, we moved it to tuesday
[00:21] <pleia2> so we can meet up before 11PM ;)
[00:21] <cprofitt> do we have time to hash out some of the 'foundation' items I was talking about?
[00:23] <doctormo> yes
[00:23] <pleia2> yep
[00:23] <cprofitt> k...
[00:23] <cprofitt> let me try to explain, the best I can, the concept I have in my head
[00:23] <cprofitt> I saw UCLP as a vehicle to enable others to contribute 'courses' to the community
[00:24] <cprofitt> to do that our 'main' focus would be developing a framework for those courses to be developed and published in.
[00:24] <cprofitt> we also might 'recruit' course writers and trainers
[00:25] <cprofitt> give advice on how to 'deliver' an in-person class or IRC class, etc
[00:25] <cprofitt> is that something you guys can agree with?
[00:27] <pleia2> I think so
[00:28] <pleia2> I think it's the specifics of "developing a framework for those courses to be developed and published in" is what is unclear
[00:30] <cprofitt> ok... let me try to clarify
[00:31] <cprofitt> we need to develop the framework -- wiki (discuss/brainstorm/organize), asciidoc (base format), PDF (in-person/IRC handouts), Moodle (synchronous or asynchronous) on-line learning
[00:32] <cprofitt> so that is, I believe, our intended framework...
[00:33] <cprofitt> courses obviously are part -- material to read and then 'knowledge evaluation' in the form of assignments or questions.
[00:33] <cprofitt> in our case we are not grading anyone -- so the evaluation is more of a guide for a person to know if they have to review more
[00:33] <cprofitt> its an understanding check
[00:34] <cprofitt> so we also have to have what we consider the basic components of a course (which cross platforms) and perhaps some parts that are particular to a format.
[00:34] <cprofitt> following?
[00:34] <cprofitt> To give an example:
[00:34] <doctormo> The way I sort of understand it is, you have material creation, teacher preperation and then the class organisation aspects.
[00:35] <doctormo> So there may be a function of pleia2 or myself having some sort of framework for recording what classes we're going to teach, or encouraging others to record when classes will be taught.
[00:35] <cprofitt> In-Person courses would have a teacher outline... an Asynchronous Moodle course would simply have a course outline for the student... or objectives
[00:35] <cprofitt> I would not call it recording...
[00:36] <cprofitt> but we may have people who are not familiar with writing curriculum
[00:36] <doctormo> cprofitt: Internal teaching?
[00:36] <pleia2> sorry, getting dragged off by texans
[00:36]  * pleia2 catches up
[00:36] <cprofitt> and we should help them to understand what a course consists of
[00:36] <cprofitt> so they can take their knowledge and build a useful course
[00:37] <cprofitt> doctormo, its like how you organized some of your courses...
[00:37] <cprofitt>     * Lesson Plan for teachers
[00:37] <cprofitt>     * Presentation Slides
[00:37] <cprofitt>     * Overview Sheet
[00:37] <cprofitt>     * Practical Sheet
[00:37] <cprofitt>     * Cheat Sheet
[00:37] <cprofitt>     * Sample Files
[00:38] <cprofitt> I think the common features would be the Lesson Plan, Overview, Practical
[00:38] <cprofitt> though in Moodle the practical is the 'questions' in quizzes or assignments that people are asked to complete
[00:39] <cprofitt> Slides -- would be course material, but Moodle would not call them slides
[00:39] <doctormo> Aye, teaching that is important, I've always thought so.
[00:39] <cprofitt> if you follow
[00:39] <cprofitt> a person who knows a cubic butt-tonne about debugging may not know how to make a course properly
[00:39]  * pleia2 nods
[00:39] <doctormo> I would call that the mechanics of course writing, getting the jist of how a lesson is layed out best and so forth.
[00:40] <cprofitt> so we need to have an outline for each course type -- as some components of in-person courses do not work well in IRC courses
[00:40] <cprofitt> etc
[00:40] <cprofitt> doctormo, yes...
[00:40] <cprofitt> I think we should have outlines or 'templates' for people to follow
[00:40] <doctormo> One of the things I wanted to do was gather a handful of classes in the teching section and then schedual regular lessons in here for our contributors.
[00:40] <cprofitt> for me this is important to really taking 'volunteers' and having them be able to contribute
[00:40] <cprofitt> sounds good doctormo
[00:41] <cprofitt> ...
[00:41] <cprofitt> this is why I thought we should each write one course in each format...
[00:41] <cprofitt> then work through as a team -- what worked and did not work about it --
[00:41] <doctormo> cprofitt: Since i've taught a person how to do the asciidoc stuff, and even though it's not perfect, would you like to go through it with me?
[00:41] <cprofitt> and revise it...
[00:42] <cprofitt> so we all feel comfortable with the 'parts'
[00:42] <cprofitt> doctormo, I would.
[00:42] <cprofitt> In a perfect world though we should have you write a course on it...
[00:42] <cprofitt> and then in the process of my learning it I can transcribe it to asciidoc
[00:42] <cprofitt> I mean from asciidoc to Moodle
[00:43] <cprofitt> then we will have an in-person course and Moodle course on using asciidocs
[00:43] <cprofitt> then I can write a course on how to use Moodle (the one I uploaded was brutally bad)
[00:43] <doctormo> Yes, that sounds efficient, there are some quirks I need to work out still remaining. TBH I've not been as attentive as I would have liked to my list of things to do on those classes.
[00:43] <cprofitt> and you can take that course and transcribe it in to asciidco
[00:44] <doctormo> cprofitt: That sound sgreat
[00:44] <cprofitt> then again, we have two courses one in each format...
[00:44] <cprofitt> then pleia2 can take both and see if we can fit them as IRC courses as well
[00:44] <pleia2> I think the quirks of the workflow will get sorted out as we start plowing into development
[00:44] <cprofitt> now we have our 'templates' that also serve as lessons on how to 'build' a course
[00:44] <cprofitt> pleia2, I agree...
[00:45] <doctormo> cprofitt: Can you script at all? write code?
[00:45] <cprofitt> but I think developing the courses that help other people write courses is likely a more fruitful venture than some of the other items we have on the list so far.
[00:45] <popey> its certainly a good place to start
[00:45] <cprofitt> doctormo, I can write in C#, do a bit of PowerShell, a bit of Bash, VB.net, and a bit of Python
[00:46] <pleia2> yeah, which is why the work doctormo has been doing with BiosElement and nigel_nb is so important right now
[00:46] <cprofitt> thanks popey - I think it works to kill three birds with one stone
[00:46]  * doctormo winces
[00:46] <cprofitt> poor birds
[00:46] <doctormo> I think so.
[00:46] <cprofitt> they were just virtual doctormo :-)
[00:46] <pleia2> hehe
[00:46] <doctormo> To clarify, I think writing those courses is a good idea
[00:46] <cprofitt> good...
[00:46] <cprofitt> that relieves me...
[00:47] <doctormo> I know we will have to rewrite them a few times as we go through it
[00:47] <cprofitt> because I think it does the following:
[00:47] <cprofitt> A)  Gets courses written
[00:47] <cprofitt> B) Trains others
[00:47] <cprofitt> C) refines our workflow
[00:47] <cprofitt> wait... a few more
[00:47] <popey> teach a $person to $activity
[00:47] <cprofitt> D) Helps the team 'gel' by understanding each other
[00:48] <cprofitt> lol
[00:48] <cprofitt> yep, popey
[00:48] <cprofitt> we also need to develop a course on BZR -- for those that may not be familiar with that and want to participate
[00:49] <cprofitt> so... in the next few weeks I will focus on writing a course on using Moodle.
[00:49] <cprofitt> Doc and bios can write a course on using asciidoc
[00:49] <pleia2> yes, nigel_nb is writing the bzr course
[00:49] <cprofitt> great
[00:49] <pleia2> bios has written an asciidoc course
[00:50] <pleia2> so we're well on our way :)
[00:50] <cprofitt> pleia2, do you have a link to that... I want to bookmark it
[00:50] <cprofitt> that way I can plan on starting to transcribe it to Moodle when I get done with the Moodle course
[00:50] <pleia2> doctormo: are these accessible by normal people in bzr?
[00:50] <pleia2> they might both still be in development
[00:51] <doctormo> pleia2: available in not trunk branches
[00:51] <doctormo> none*
[00:52] <cprofitt> so... our courses on how to use asciidoc, bzr and Moodle will be in 'spread ubuntu' section right?
[00:53] <doctormo> cprofitt: So far they've been going into How to Teach
[00:53] <doctormo> Although the sense of that is tagental.
[00:53] <pleia2> teach ubuntu
[00:56] <cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/course/index.php?categoryedit=on
[00:56] <cprofitt> I was looking at what was in Moodle...
[00:56] <cprofitt> perhaps I need to change one of the categories?
[00:57] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/TeachingTopics is what you're talking about
[00:57] <pleia2> and that's our "How to Teach"
[00:57] <pleia2> which isn't a category there in moodle
[00:57] <doctormo> Aye, the one with the morterboard.
[00:57] <cprofitt> Publishing to Moodle (and why you can't) ?
[00:58] <pleia2> I think "and why you can't" is because "our moodle site isn't done yet"
[00:58] <doctormo> I always felt like that category was for sort of internal training of all kinds, moodle, teaching, asciidoc, bzr, anything that gets contributors up to speed.
[00:58] <pleia2> but the moodle site is fine, we can finish theming later
[00:59] <doctormo> Aye, that was written ages ago, can be removed IMO
[00:59] <cprofitt> k -- I can add the category...
[00:59] <cprofitt> woah... we are removing How to Teach... I just got lost
[01:01] <pleia2> no no, removing "(and why you can't)"
[01:01] <cprofitt> ok...
[01:01] <pleia2> because we can publish to moodle now! :)
[01:01] <pleia2> but yes, please add the How to Teach category to moodle
[01:02] <cprofitt> http://learn.ufbt.net/course/index.php?categoryedit=on
[01:02] <cprofitt> added the category
[01:02] <pleia2> yay :)
[01:02] <doctormo> Perfect
[01:03] <doctormo> cprofitt: sorry about my unclarrity.
[01:12] <cprofitt> doctormo, no big deal... it was nice to just flesh it out...
[01:12] <cprofitt> I will start to work on the Moodle course and put the installation course on hold
[01:12] <cprofitt> feel free to look at that one or the other that are already published there
[01:13] <cprofitt> I need to go spend some time with the children... then get them off to bed...
[01:13] <cprofitt> bbiab
[01:22] <doctormo> cprofitt: Sounds like a good way forward, I will work on the bzr and asciidoc sections, although I'd also like some time to do a few of these scripts that will produce the pdfs, htmls and help illiminate the bzr complexity by dealing with the users keys for them.
[01:23] <pleia2> yay scripts
[03:26] <cprofitt> pleia2, and doctormo are you both still here?
[04:44] <cprofitt> pleia2 you in the room?
[04:44] <pleia2> cprofitt: getting ready to head to bed
[04:44] <pleia2> I want to be on the road by 10AM tomorrow, so I can't stay up late :)
[04:44] <cprofitt> tell me what you think of this -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-p2KqU7QD4
[04:45] <cprofitt> when you get a chance...
[04:45] <cprofitt> not tonight
[05:27] <joe__> I am unable to play video... 9.10, fresh install get "internal data stream error" any ideas?
[20:19] <doctormo> Hey swoody, how are things going?
[20:19] <swoody> doctormo, oh I can't complain, thank you :)
[20:19] <swoody> doctormo, how did your birthday turn out??
[20:20] <doctormo> swoody: Good, I got a hard drive and taken out to dinner twice, both times had lovely chicken katsu.
[20:20] <swoody> doctormo, very nice :)
[20:22] <doctormo> Thanks, and yourself? good weekend?
[20:29] <nigel_nb> doctormo: belated birthday wishes :)
[20:30] <swoody> doctormo, so far :)
[20:30] <swoody> been working a bit harder trying to find work, so hopefully something comes of it :)
[20:31] <swoody> have some really great leads from some Chicago Loco guys
[20:31] <doctormo> thanks nigel_nb :-) so many good wishes.
[20:31] <nigel_nb> doctormo: not as bad as mine
[20:31] <doctormo> swoody: Sounds good, our LoCo Karmic party is tonight
[20:31] <nigel_nb> doctormo: kept getting calls from 12 am
[20:32] <swoody> doctormo, very nice! I hope you guys have a great time :)
[20:32] <doctormo> nigel_nb: What kind of calls?
[20:32] <nigel_nb> till 4 p.m., I think by buddies coordinated it.... birthday wishes
[20:32] <doctormo> swoody: We shall see, I think the venue will be too small, but we shall see.
[20:32] <swoody> doctormo, ours is next Saturday, where I'll also be giving a presentation on Folding@Home :)
[20:32] <nigel_nb> doctormo: my phone was ringing every 30 mins or so
[20:32] <swoody> doctormo, well, it'll be 'intimate' then ;)
[20:33] <doctormo> nigel_nb: That's brilliant, that means you have some really good, close knit friends.
[20:33] <nigel_nb> doctormo: yeah.  :)
[20:33] <doctormo> swoody: No presentations at ours, just drink, food and social talk. We save the work for Tuesdays since we do that every week.
[20:34] <swoody> heh, yeah I'm sure there will be no shortage of drinking and socializing ;)
[20:34] <swoody> that is pretty nice that you guys get together once a week...
[20:35] <swoody> the Chicago LUG is like that, but not the Loco :/
[20:35] <nigel_nb> doctormo: is there a plenary about uclp at the uds?
[20:40] <doctormo> nigel_nb: No, but there is a session for it.
[20:40] <nigel_nb> doctormo: when is it scheduled, is that ready yet?
[20:48] <doctormo> nigel_nb: I don't know if it's scedualed yet, but it is a blueprint
[20:51] <nigel_nb> doctormo: if possible, I'll participate as a remote user
[20:54] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Of course, we hope to put it on IRC, and you might be able to dial in for sound.
[20:54] <nigel_nb> oh great :)
[20:54] <nigel_nb> do update the mailing list with the room and time
[21:01] <doctormo> OK, it'll go on the schedual for UDS, so it might change, but I'll try and keep everyone posted.
[21:12] <nigel_nb> great. thanks doctormo :)