[00:38] <wade> Hi guys...I'm suddenly having doubts about whether I use bzr correctly....If I want to operate in a distributed fashion, every time I or a team mate make a change to our feature branch, we should merge it into the mirror, then push the mirror, correct?
[00:39] <wade> what happens if I push, and then he pushes without first pulling?
[00:43] <jam> wade: it sort of depends how you define "mirror"
[00:43] <jam> if you are both collaborating on a single branch
[00:43] <jam> you can both 'just push' to the mirror
[00:43] <jam> you don't have to merge
[00:43] <jam> if he pushes without pulling
[00:43] <jam> bzr will tell him that the branches have diverged
[00:43] <jam> and he needs to merge before he can push again, etc.
[00:43] <jam> you could also use checkouts, which automate some of that book-keeping
[00:43] <jam> though it means that "bzr commit" will block and tell you to update
[00:44] <wade> Ok...I was just getting worried that I might be blowing away his changes when I pushed
[00:44] <jam> wade: we're pretty good about not letting you "blow away" anything
[00:44] <jam> as long as you don't use --force or --overwrite style flags
[00:45] <wade> Ok, good to know - thanks
[00:48] <syncrondi> anyone able to provide insight on why I get "bzr: ERROR: unknown command "push-and-update" "?
[00:48] <jam> syncrondi: because there isn't such a command?
[00:48] <jam> Are you installing the "push-and-update" plugin?
[00:49] <jam> I'm pretty sure it just piggy backs on regular "bzr push" anymore
[00:49] <syncrondi> I've used it before on another machine.. it's a plugin?
[00:49] <syncrondi> I don't remember installing a plugin to get thte capability
[00:50] <jam> syncrondi: "lp:bzr-push-and-update"
[00:50] <syncrondi> when I do just a push, I get bzr: ERROR: No push location known or specified.
[00:50] <jam> definitely a plugin
[00:50] <jam> syncrondi: for "bzr push" if you haven't told it where to push before, how would it know?
[00:50] <jam> "bzr push $URL"
[00:50] <jam> and then future pushes will use $URL if not given
[00:51] <syncrondi> ah
[00:51] <syncrondi> Hmm, it looks like the plugin is only for linux, but I definately never used it on Linux before
[00:51] <jam> syncrondi: not at all
[00:51] <jam> It needs access to "ssh"
[00:51] <jam> though it could be updated to not have that dependency
[00:52] <syncrondi> oh, ok
[00:52] <jam> (and use the python 'paramiko' library)
[00:52] <jam> there is an open bug on that
[00:52] <syncrondi> I've been putting off installing the paramiko library
[00:52] <jam> syncrondi: well, on windows you either need paramiko or ssh anyway
[00:52] <jam> plink is possible, but really doesn't work well
[00:53] <syncrondi> I've been using plink for a while without hitch on another system, but a friend helped me set it up
[00:53] <syncrondi> Now with my other box, I've had some tough luck getting everything working
[00:55] <syncrondi> bzr push seems to be working now that I've included the URL
[00:55] <syncrondi> But what's the difference between that and push-and-update?
[00:55] <jam> syncrondi: so the main issue is auth support for paramiko
[00:55] <jam> which is... poor
[00:55] <jam> but as long as you only use pageant, it should be ok
[00:55] <jam> 'bzr push' will push the history changes to a remote location
[00:56] <jam> but won't update a remote working tree
[00:56] <jam> 'push-and-update' goes out and after pushing the history, runs "bzr update" on the remote host
[00:56] <syncrondi> ok
[00:56] <syncrondi> So I can just run them separately
[00:56] <jam> syncrondi: well, if you *need* to have a remote working tree, and update it, yse
[00:56] <jam> yes
[00:56] <syncrondi> thanks jam
[00:56] <jam> many use cases don't require a remote working tree
[00:57] <syncrondi> What do you mean by 'don't require' ?
[00:57] <jam> syncrondi: if you are sharing your code between developers
[00:57] <jam> you don't need a working tree on the shared server
[00:58] <jam> just the *history*
[00:58] <syncrondi> It's a live site. :)
[00:58] <jam> the cases for having a working tree tend to be stuff like "I want to maintain my http website on a remote server"
[00:58] <jam> note that you *might* prefer the 'bzr-upload' plugin for tha
[00:58] <jam> that
[00:58] <syncrondi> What are the advantages of the bzr-upload?
[00:59] <jam> syncrondi: many people maintaining a live site *don't* want the history copied there
[00:59] <jam> in case there is a security breach in the http requests
[00:59] <jam> exposing the history of the site to 3rd parties
[00:59] <syncrondi> ah, ok jam.
[00:59] <jam> also, bzr-upload works over things like ftp
[01:00] <syncrondi> which is insecure, no?
[01:00] <syncrondi> I'd rather stick with the ssh.
[01:00] <jam> syncrondi: many hosting sites only let you upload via ftp
[01:00] <jam> so not an option
[01:00] <jam> if you are in control over the server
[01:00] <jam> *I* would probably use a bzr lightweight checkout
[01:01] <jam> and "ssh host; cd website; bzr update"
[01:01] <syncrondi> I see
[01:02] <syncrondi> You've been very helpful. Thanks jam. I'm not the only one running the show, so I've been just going with the flow so far.
[01:08] <syncrondi> Hm. I'm seeing an actual update on the server side
[01:08] <syncrondi> not*
[01:11] <nyu> is it possible to retrieve a snapshot of a shared-repo atomically?
[01:11] <syncrondi> I wouldn't be sure how to do that nyu
[01:14] <syncrondi> I'm not even sure how to install the push-and-update plugin, jam
[01:14] <syncrondi> I feel like a frickin' noob at this.. because I am
[01:20] <jam> nyu: not easily. If it is a requirement, I would suggest staging it to another location, and then using that.
[01:20] <jam> 'bzr pull' etc know how to get a stable view of the data.
[01:20] <jam> Which you could emulate, but requires copying things in a specific order
[01:20] <jam> (read all the branches first, then read file X, then Y, etc.)
[01:21] <jam> quite a bit easier to just do:
[01:21] <nyu> jam: could I then pull all branches automatically?  I know multi-pull, but AFAICT it only pulls branches I already have locally
[01:21] <syncrondi> I branched the push_and_update plugin to my plugins folder, but I still get the error with unknown command.
[01:21] <jam> nyu: for b in `bzr branches`; ...
[01:21] <jam> syncrondi: make sure 'bzr help plugins' mentions it
[01:21] <nyu> oh
[01:22] <nyu> 'bzr branches' looks useful
[01:22] <jam> and then it is probably just "bzr push" and it will check to see if the remote has a working tree, and if so spawn "ssh host bzr update"
[01:22] <syncrondi> jam:
[01:22] <syncrondi> bzr plugins doesn't mention
[01:22] <nyu> jam: I see, thanks
[01:23] <jam> syncrondi: where did you actually put it, and what did you call it
[01:23] <jam> on linux
[01:23] <jam> cd ~/.bazaar/plugins
[01:23] <jam> bzr branch lp:bzr-push-and-update push_and_update
[01:23] <jam> on Windows
[01:23] <jam> cd %APPDATA%/Bazaar/2.0/plugins
[01:23] <jam> IIRC
[01:23] <syncrondi> Yeah, I just did a bzr branch https://launchpad.net/bzr-push-and-update push_and_update  on C:\Program Files\Bazaar\plugins
[01:24] <syncrondi> I should put it in appdata, jam?
[01:25] <lifeless> jam: working towards it
[01:25] <jam> lifeless: sure. I'm also still seeing skips as failures
[01:25] <lifeless> the subunit protocol branch  is most of the way there, the details api seems nice, want to get a TestCase test-code support
[01:25] <lifeless> jam: land vila's branch
[01:26] <lifeless> if you like - bug, uhm,
[01:26] <jam> https://code.launchpad.net/~vila/bzr/419776-subunit/+merge/14413 ?
[01:26] <jam> doesn't seem the right one
[01:26] <jam> bug #419776
[01:27] <jam> I thought it was *your* branch that does it
[01:27] <lifeless> ye sthat one
[01:27] <jam> or are you saying a branch of subunit?
[01:27] <lifeless> no
[01:27] <lifeless> so my branch for bzr, which is landed, fixes things for the upstream API
[01:28] <lifeless> released subunit though has a bug itself, in that its serialiser doesn't have addExpectedFailure
[01:28] <lifeless> *and* the downgrade logic makes that a fail not a success
[01:28] <lifeless> vilas branch just changes bzr to use the same logic the next release of subunit will, to degrade in that case to success
[01:29] <lifeless> my protocol branch of subunit has addExpectedFailure on the subunit serialiser
[01:29] <lifeless> I may backport that to subunit trunk when I get a minute
[01:29] <jam> lifeless: well, I'll submit vincent's patch, since I *did* approve it :)
[01:29] <jam> as did you it seems
[01:30] <lifeless> http://feeds.laughingsquid.com/~r/laughingsquid/~3/iTCZZ6YbvfE/ <- wow
[01:31] <lifeless> jam: shame to hear about the flight snafu
[01:31] <jam> lifeless: for those who don't get enough rock band/ etc
[01:31] <jam> lifeless: thanks for your sympathy
[01:32] <jam> I suppose it means I got some quality hacking done with a real power supply :0
[01:33] <lifeless> :)
[01:37] <lifeless> 3 minutes and I run out of free wifi apparently <>
[01:37] <lifeless> you'd think, with a plane ticket they could throw in 5$ of bandwidth
[01:39] <jam> lifeless: :)
[01:39] <jam> you'd think the same thing about a $200/night hotel
[01:39] <jam> lifeless: what is the subunit command that you can then pass to "bzr selftest --load-list" ?
[01:40] <jam> ah, perhaps subunit-ls
[03:37] <Peng> Stupid question: How do you make --no-strict the default when pushing? An alias?
[03:38] <syncrondi> Another stupid question: How can I unlock a file that bzr locked, preventing me from doing a commit?
[03:38] <syncrondi> Apparently, I'm HM
[03:39] <syncrondi> xD
[03:41] <Peng> "unlock"? In what way?
[03:42] <syncrondi> ::    Unable to obtain lock file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Setting....
[03:42] <Peng> Oh god, Windows. :P
[03:43] <Peng> Pastebin the full error. If you're sure bzr isn't running, "bzr break-lock" will probably fix it, depending on the problem.
[03:43] <syncrondi> held by syncrondi@host on host host[process #1712] locked 21 minutes, 27 seconds ago Will continue to try until 21:42:20, unless you press Ctrl-C If you're sure that it's not being mdified, use bzr break-lock
[03:44] <syncrondi> but the break-lock doesn't work
[03:44] <syncrondi> it complains that it isn't a branch
[03:44] <syncrondi> wait
[03:45] <syncrondi> I don't need all that jibberish after the command
[03:45] <syncrondi> it was saying I needed to have some arguments, but it worked without arguments
[03:46] <Peng> Yeah, "bzr break-lock" defaults to the current directory if you don't specify a path/URL. That trips people up a lot.
[03:47] <syncrondi> Thanks Peng!
[03:49] <Peng> :)
[08:33]  * jml considers dinner plans
[08:41] <fullermd> jml: I suggest eating.
[10:35] <jml> *yawn*
[10:44] <gour> morning
[10:44] <gour> i've read that bzr's interoperability with hg is not as good as with git & svn repos...what can be done atm?
[10:46] <gour> i need to keep hg repo of the project in sync, but have lot of problems using forest extension with my flakey internet (mobile 3g) connection and wonder if i could convert repo to bzr locally and somehow pull and commit from bzr?
[10:48] <LarstiQ> gour: it needs more work :)
[10:48] <gour> LarstiQ: anything works now?
[10:48] <LarstiQ> gour: yeah, jelmer has been improving it lately I gather
[10:48] <gour> LarstiQ: is it in 2.1 trunk?
[10:49] <LarstiQ> gour: I'd assume it's in lp:bzr-hg
[10:49] <gour> here i've 2.0.0
[10:49] <gour> ahh, let check it at lp
[10:50] <gour> hg's subrepos is not quite ready, hg does not have, afaik, working fast-export/import...:-/
[10:51] <gour> hmm, web says: "
[10:51] <gour> A plugin for bzr which provides support for Mercurial file formats. It currently allows pulling from (and eventually pushing to) hg repositories."
[10:51] <LarstiQ> the description might be old, I'd look at the recent revisions / NEWS
[10:53] <gour> ok, let me pull it
[10:59] <gour> i've installed plugin, created new bzr repo and tried to pull from it, but get: bzr: ERROR: No module named hg.ui
[11:04] <gour> i cannot see anything similar in bugs
[11:06] <gour> jelmer: shall i open a ticket for the above problem?
[11:06] <LarstiQ> gour: have you got all dependencies installed?
[11:06] <gour> LarstiQ: hmm, i just pulled the plugin
[11:06] <LarstiQ> gour: not sure if hg.ui is part of standard mercurial, or maybe version differences
[11:07] <gour> LarstiQ: hg works here
[11:07] <LarstiQ> gour: can you `python -c 'import hg.ui'`?
[11:08] <gour> LarstiQ: ImportError: No module named hg.ui
[11:09] <gour> i'm still not sure about hg.ui extension/module
[11:10] <elroboto> back
[11:11] <gour> LarstiQ: i.e.i believe it's due to [ui] section in my ~/.hgrc
[11:11] <LarstiQ> gour: maybe, what does google say? And what happens if comment the ui section out
[11:13] <gour> LarstiQ: commenting ui section does not help
[11:16] <gour> otoh, "from mercurial import hg, ui" works
[11:32]  * gour submitted bug-report
[11:38] <gour> hmm, 'make check' for bzr-hg fails as well
[11:45] <gour> hmm, this line is the problem: from bzrlib.plugins.hg.ui import ui
[11:48] <gour> bze cannot find the plugin which is installed in ~/.bazaar/plugins
[11:48] <gour> *bzr
[11:49] <gour> but i wonder how is it that 'bzr plugins' lists the plugin?
[11:50] <elroboto> hello, i want to create a bzr store, but without publishers, i want the contributors commits to be publish automatically
[11:50] <elroboto> how to do that?
[11:59] <gour> LarstiQ: the problem was that i did not run: python setup.py build_ext -i in plugin dir
[12:03] <LarstiQ> gour: aha
[12:18] <bialix> hi garyvdm
[13:05] <nyu> is fast-export atomic?
[13:10] <bialix> in which sense?
[13:10] <nyu> hi bialix
[13:10] <bialix> hi nyu
[13:10] <nyu> i.e. if I fast-export from a remote repo while someone is pushing
[13:10] <nyu> I assume fast-export will always obtain a consistent snapshot?
[13:11] <nyu> hi phcoder
[13:11] <bialix> IIUC it should keep read lock and will use only latest branch tip as of operation start
[13:11] <nyu> jam said yesterday "'bzr pull' etc know how to get a stable view of the data." but didn't mention fast-export
[13:11] <bialix> but there is possible quirks with repo re-packing
[13:12] <bialix> nyu: without looking at the fast-export internals I'd say most likely it uses the same code as pull to get revisions from repo
[13:12] <nyu> I don't understand read lock.  do you mean write lock?
[13:12] <bialix> but I can't be 100% sure
[13:12] <bialix> bzr has both read and write lock on internal structures
[13:12] <phcoder> hello all. I fast-imported my old repo but some branches are missing because they were merged in other branches. Can I somehow create a branch from commit-id?
[13:13] <nyu> to get stable reads either you use atomic test-and-set operations or you lock writes, right?  I don't understand what locking reads means
[13:13] <bialix> if somebody pushes then dest repo will be write locked, therefore attempt to read lock it will fail
[13:13] <nyu> ah, ok
[13:13] <bialix> write lock excludes readers
[13:14] <bialix> phcoder: just branch from desired revision
[13:14] <nyu> shit, I think I was lectured on this less than 6 months ago.  I forgot everything
[13:14] <nyu> thanks bialix, I remember now :-)
[13:14] <bialix> :-)
[13:15] <phcoder> phcoder@debian:~/grub2/bzr-new$ bzr branch -r phcoder@gmail.com-20091106215044-ehljkps46fa20o1s mips-all mips
[13:15] <phcoder> bzr: ERROR: No namespace registered for string: u'phcoder@gmail.com-20091106215044-ehljkps46fa20o1s'
[13:17] <bialix> bzr branch -r revid:phcoder@gmail.com-20091106215044-ehljkps46fa20o1s mips-all mips
[13:17] <bialix> phcoder: ^
[13:18] <bialix> `bzr help revisionspec` may help
[13:35] <mathepic> Is there any file in the .bzr directory that gives you just the current revision? (Trying to use current revision as a dependency in the Makefile, since one of my scripts depends on the revision)
[13:37] <LarstiQ> mathepic: Use `bzr revno` or `bzr version-info`
[13:38] <mathepic> Yeah, but I need to know when `bzr revno` in the makefile changes.
[13:38] <mathepic> oh, hmm
[13:39] <LarstiQ> is that an "oh, hmm, I figured it out"? :)
[13:39] <mathepic> No, its "hmm, I think I see your point"
[13:39] <LarstiQ> ok
[13:40] <mathepic> Would make be able to find the change in the shell output from the call `bzr revno`
[13:40] <LarstiQ> you could cache it for one, and use a .PHONY target
[13:41] <LarstiQ> mathepic: but maybe it's good to take a step back and look at what task you're trying to accomplish with this mechanism?
[13:41] <mathepic> Generation of a header file for use in the main program
[13:42] <mathepic> It uses bzr version-info to get it, but then the output of course would change when the revision changes, so it needs to be run again
[13:43]  * LarstiQ waits for mathepic to come back
[13:51] <phcoder> bialix: thanks. I'll look into it after restoring our experimental branch
[13:52] <bialix> mathepic: is it your question on stackoverflow about Makefile and revnos?
[13:53] <bialix> phcoder: looking into it? into what?
[13:53] <phcoder> phcoder: into restoring my branches which were merged
[13:56] <bialix> LarstiQ: hi, when and if mathepic will come back say him he had answers on his SO question
[13:57] <LarstiQ> bialix: I will remember to tell him that
[13:59] <bialix> here is http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1694264/how-to-make-dependency-in-makefile-so-that-target-is-built-when-bazaar-revision-c
[14:57] <cody-somerville> how can I see which revision two branches diverged at?
[15:00] <LarstiQ> cody-somerville: I'd use `bzr missing`
[15:15] <GaryvdM> bialix: Hi - I think my network connection sorted now
[15:15] <bialix> Hi GaryvdM !
[15:16] <GaryvdM> bialix Any other regressions other than Bug 478239?
[15:20] <GaryvdM> bialix: Otherwise I would like to release 0.16 now.
[15:20] <GaryvdM> Oh - Just noticed Bug 47827
[15:20] <GaryvdM> I mean Bug 478277
[15:22] <bialix> GaryvdM: I'll update by qbzr copy right now, have no more bugs off hands
[15:27] <bialix> GaryvdM: what about https://bugs.launchpad.net/qbzr/+bug/475286
[15:28] <GaryvdM> bialix: I don't think it is a regression, but it should be easy to fix.
[15:29] <bialix> it seems it's already fixed
[15:29] <bialix> lemme check
[15:30] <bialix> no, it's not
[15:30] <bialix> I'll fix it, wait 15 mins
[15:32] <GaryvdM> Cool - 478277 is going to take me a while, because I'm having a failer in that test, due to a pyqt 4.6.0 bug, so I'm going to have to upgrade to 4.6.1
[15:33] <bialix> GaryvdM:  bug 475286 is not regression per se, but traceback in qbzr is bad
[15:35] <bialix> GaryvdM: done, pushed
[15:38] <bialix> cody-somerville: qlog is your friend ;-)
[16:05] <nyu> how can I incorporate a file from one unrelated (no common ancestor) branch to another without losing history?
[16:06] <elroboto> hello, i want to create a bzr store, but without publishers, i want the contributors commits to be publish automatically, how to do that?
[16:09] <GaryvdM> nyu: Dose the other branch have file other than the one you want to import?
[16:10] <GaryvdM> elroboto: I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but if you create a public place that people can push to, other people will be able to pull stright away?
[16:11] <GaryvdM> elroboto: I'm not sure what you mean by "without publishers"
[16:12] <bialix> nyu: fast-filter the file first, then merge filtered branch
[16:14] <bialix> but you will lose liason to original history
[16:14] <nyu> bialix: uhm this discards original history?
[16:14] <nyu> GaryvdM: they're totally unrelated branches, with different files
[16:14] <bialix> filtered history will have new revision-ids and file-ids
[16:15] <nyu> GaryvdM: i.e. one project borrowing files from another
[16:15] <nyu> bialix: oh, that's ok
[16:15] <nyu> bialix: but it'll have whole history of the imported file?
[16:15] <bialix> most likely
[16:16] <nyu> ok thanks
[16:16] <bialix> fast-filter can't support moves of files between directories
[16:16] <bialix> otherwise it's ok
[16:16] <bialix> try it
[16:17] <bialix> you now almost expert in it ;-)
[16:17] <nyu> hehe
[16:18] <gmb> Hi.
[16:18] <gmb> I might be having a case of the stupid, but I'm having trouble installing bzr 2.0 from the PPA on Hardy
[16:19] <gmb> because of the following error: "bzr: Depends: python-central (>= 0.6.7) but 0.6.5ubuntu1 is installed."
[16:19] <gmb> Does anyone have any advice for eliminating my stupid?
[16:24] <GaryvdM> gmb: Acording to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-central/ , hardy-updates has python-central 0.6.7
[16:25] <gmb> GaryvdM: Aaargh. I have the dumb. Not only is the hardy-updates line commented out in sources.list, it actually points to feisty, not hardy. God knows what I was tripping on when I upgraded.
[16:25] <gmb> Thanks for that!
[16:27] <gmb> Yep, that fixed that and a number of other things. Awesome.
[16:27] <gmb> GaryvdM: Thanks again :)
[16:27] <GaryvdM> gmb: It's a pleasure.
[16:34] <Alcmene> Hi there!
[16:34] <Alcmene> Anyone available for a bit of help?
[16:35] <Alcmene> Well, let's try anyway  :s
[16:35] <Alcmene> Abstract: checkout permanently out of date
[16:36] <Alcmene> symptoms: last part of http://osdir.com/ml/bazaar/2009-08/msg00479.html
[16:36] <Alcmene> in short:
[16:36] <Alcmene> inside a working repo, a checkout from another on an ftp
[16:36] <Alcmene> bzr up > "tree is up to date"
[16:37] <Alcmene> bzr ci --local …
[16:37] <Alcmene> bzr ci --local …
[16:37] <Alcmene> bzr ci > "bound branch is out of date with master branch"
[16:38] <Alcmene> of course, this is not true
[16:38] <Alcmene> done this twice already, no changes
[16:38] <Alcmene> any ideas?
[16:39] <LarstiQ> but it is
[16:39] <LarstiQ> Alcmene: `bzr up` after the --local should pivot them away, but you might prefer pushing those revisions to master first
[16:42] <Alcmene> I don't get it  :s
[16:42] <Alcmene> I don't mean to update my working tree
[16:42] <Alcmene> but the distant repo only
[16:43] <Alcmene> plus, if I _do_ update, it of course reverts to the version on the server, which is the one before all my local commits
[16:44] <LarstiQ> Alcmene: then just `bzr push`
[16:44] <LarstiQ> (to the master)
[16:45] <Alcmene> yes, ok, but why does it tell me this??
[16:45] <LarstiQ> Alcmene: you're trying to commit, but your local branch is not at the same revision as the master
[16:45] <LarstiQ> hence, it tells you to sort that first
[16:47] <Alcmene> mmh… I get it, but it still sounds like a very strange way of telling it IMO
[16:48] <Alcmene> and I'm almost sure I already did this without a problem
[16:49] <LarstiQ> Alcmene: the message itself tells you to run `bzr update` and then commit, did you try that?
[16:49] <Alcmene> yes!
[16:49] <bialix> GaryvdM: ping
[16:50] <Alcmene> but updating _reverts_ : it updates to the tip of the distatnt repo, which is the same as reverting to the last no-local commit
[16:50] <LarstiQ> Alcmene: no
[16:51] <LarstiQ> Alcmene: it pivots your local commits as pending merges
[16:51] <Alcmene> well, how come a bzr stat after the update didn't show me _anything_ then?
[16:51]  * LarstiQ tried it locally and it works exactly as advertised
[16:52] <LarstiQ> Alcmene: that I don't know, but if you can give instructions on how to reproduce that I'd like to try
[16:52]  * Alcmene backs up his local tree before trying it, and will tell the result in 2 minutes
[16:53] <Alcmene> luckily most of the commits were merges, 'cause I would have lost a lot
[16:54] <LarstiQ> all your local commits are still in your local repository
[16:54] <LarstiQ> not too hard to retrieve with `bzr heads`
[16:55] <Alcmene> :| wtf
[16:55] <Alcmene> well, ok, I know I'll sound like an asshole right now
[16:55] <Alcmene> bzr up did do the trick
[16:55] <LarstiQ> why would that make you sound like an asshole?
[16:55] <Alcmene> I swear it did the opposite yesterday
[16:56] <Alcmene> because I have wasted your time for no reason!
[16:56] <LarstiQ> hah :)
[16:56] <LarstiQ> such is triaging
[16:56]  * LarstiQ doesn't mind
[16:58] <Alcmene> well, I must have made a mistake yesterday evening, was in a rush
[16:58] <Alcmene> sorry again, thanks a lot LartstiQ
[16:59] <LarstiQ> Alcmene: np :)
[17:01] <bialix> GaryvdM: I've made one more last-minute-fixes commit. Now I think road for 0.16 is free
[17:15] <GaryvdM> bialix: pong
[17:15] <GaryvdM> was waiting for pyqt 4.6.1 to finish building
[17:15] <bialix> GaryvdM: I've made couple of minor fixes for new cmd logging feature
[17:16] <bialix> GaryvdM: I understand
[17:16] <bialix> bzr qlog
[17:31] <GaryvdM> bialix: I got my tests passing now. But I don't see Bug 478277
[17:31] <GaryvdM> bailix: fix is simple, but will you please test it before I push to trunk.
[17:32] <bialix> where is your fix/patch/branch?
[17:32] <hsn> after updating to 1.18 push is pretty fast
[17:33] <GaryvdM> bialix: lp:~garyvdm/qbzr/Bug478277
[17:34]  * bialix branching
[17:34] <bialix> hsn: you may want to thanks lifeless and spiv I guess
[17:36] <bialix> GaryvdM: tests passed; please land it
[17:36] <GaryvdM> cool
[20:49] <lifeless> abentley: awake?
[20:49] <abentley> lifeless: yep.  Good morning!
[20:53] <lifeless> I'm on a demo plan from a nearby wifi hotspot - do you know details about how we;re meant to get wifi?
[20:53] <lifeless> and / or breakfast?
[20:53] <lifeless> I checked in late last night - semi automated, so have no clue :(
[20:54] <abentley> lifeless: No wifi here.  DSL in every room.  We're on our own for breakfast.
[20:54] <abentley> lifeless: I can drop in on you in, say 10 minutes if you like.
[20:55] <abentley> lifeless: Or you can call me in room 50
[21:30] <wade2> Hi guys...is there any way I can troubleshoot what appears to be a SSH hang with bzr?  (using a sftp URL)...I got one the other day, and now my programming colleague is getting one when trying to do a merge - he issues the merge command, it asks for the password and then it just hangs
[21:32] <LarstiQ> wade2: ~/.bzr.log, possibly with some debugging flags (bzr help debug-flags)
[21:33] <wade2> Ok, thanks
[21:54] <RenatoSilva> does anyone has had problems using bzr in ubuntu with ntfs partitions
[21:54] <mneptok> NTFS is usually mounted read-only. have you mounted the partition is question rw?
[21:54] <mneptok> s/is/in/
[21:57] <RenatoSilva> yes rw
[21:57] <RenatoSilva> the problem is that bzr detect permission changes
[21:59] <RenatoSilva> becxause of this I don't want to use it, I'm afraid of confusion
[22:00] <RenatoSilva> I mean, I would like to use bzr in ubuntu, but can't becasue of this problem
[22:00] <GaryvdM> RenatoSilva: I tried that the other day. It kept on telling me the x bit had change.
[22:01] <GaryvdM> RenatoSilva: I ended up just branching on to a ext4 drive
[22:01] <RenatoSilva> GaryvdM: I think that's it, don't want to test it now :)
[22:02] <GaryvdM> RenatoSilva: Pulling and Pushing should work fine. It's just working with a Working Tree that is problematic.
[22:02] <RenatoSilva> GaryvdM: I don't understand
[22:02] <RenatoSilva> GaryvdM: nothing has changed, so it should not tell the contrary
[22:03] <RenatoSilva> GaryvdM: I don't understand why does it consider permission changes. Do bzr store them in the metadata, the permissions?
[22:04] <GaryvdM> RenatoSilva: x (execution) does not get stored by ntfs, so the linux ntfs driver just says every thing is executable.
[22:04] <GaryvdM> RenatoSilva: bzr stores this because it is important for unix dev
[22:04]  * RenatoSilva is going to windows to work in bzr, brb
[22:19] <GaryvdM> Moring jam
[22:19] <jam> morning GaryvdM
[22:19] <jam> just got into Sydney
[22:20] <GaryvdM> *morNing
[22:20] <jam> still about 4-5 hours out from making it to the sprint
[22:20] <jam> how's things with you GaryvdM?
[22:21] <GaryvdM> Good
[22:21] <GaryvdM> About to announce qbzr 0.16
[22:21] <GaryvdM> Hi vila
[22:21] <vila> hey :)
[22:21] <GaryvdM> vila, jam: how is the jet lag?
[22:21] <jam> hi vila
[22:22] <jam> I'm usually pretty good about jet lag
[22:22] <vila> hey jam !! Where are you ?
[22:22] <jam> but tomorrow is going to be the real test
[22:22] <jam> vila: I made it to Sydney, waiting 2hrs for my flight to BNE
[22:22] <jam> then another hr flight, and an hr bus ride
[22:22] <jam> plus I think another 1hr wait for the bus?
[22:22] <vila> I so totally suck at jetlag :-) For the last three nights: I slept 0/4/4 hours :-/
[22:22] <GaryvdM> ouch!
[22:23] <jam> Given that I left my house, Friday @ 3pm, I've still got a ways to go
[22:23] <vila> jam: I can't tell for the bus wait, but the trip itself is around 2hm door-to-door
[22:23] <jam> :'-(
[22:23] <jam> :'(
[22:23] <jam> vila: it is monday, right?
[22:24] <vila> jam: yeah, that sucks, I saw your mails, but rejoice, things could be worde :-)
[22:24] <vila> jam: yes it is
[22:24] <GaryvdM> jam: wow - That a long time
[22:24] <vila> s/worde/worse/
[22:24] <jam> GaryvdM: mechanical problems in Chicago caused the plane to be delayed, so I missed the flight to sydney
[22:24] <jam> and there is only 1 per day
[22:24] <jam> I'm currently at 48 hours of absolute travel time, and have ~6 more to go
[22:25] <GaryvdM> jam: It just turned Monday for me.
[22:25] <jam> a day in SF isn't terrible
[22:25] <jam> but I didn't really *want* to be there
[22:25] <vila> by that I mean I've been delayed myself 4 hours in London for th london->singapore flight with a 2hours wait in singapore meaning I'll miss the singapore -> brisbane flight
[22:25] <GaryvdM> jam: If I want to build the windows installer without vs 2008, is it easy to disable the tbzr part?
[22:26] <vila> fortunately the plane wait for us in singapore so I made it in time in brisbane just to learn that my luggage has been lost :-)
[22:26] <GaryvdM> vila: Oh no
[22:27] <GaryvdM> vila: that really sucks
[22:27] <jam> vila: yeah, I was trying to think whether I would get luggage in Sydney if I made the flight
[22:28] <jam> however, I have an email in my inbox
[22:28] <jam> dated about 1hr after takeoff
[22:28] <jam> saying that I had been rebooked
[22:28] <jam> so they pretty much determined "you aren't making it, we're rebooking you" before the plane was anywhere close to landing
[22:28] <jam> even though we made it with about 10min to space
[22:28] <jam> spare
[22:28] <jam> if they would have been able to actually park at the terminal
[22:28] <jam> (though 10min before departure, not 10min before boarding.)
[22:29] <jam> vila: anyway, /wave to everyone there for me. Discuss lots, I'll have you fill me in over dinner or something :)
[22:29] <vila> hehe, yes :) They say they should deliver it in the following 24h, still a couple ones to wait and then... off to the shops for brand new clothes :)
[22:30] <vila> I've yet to find the others, in fact I came here to see if they wawere connected already ")
[22:31] <GaryvdM> vila: lifeless and abentley were around just now.
[22:33] <vila> GaryvdM: thnks, but they don't seem to be anymore :) Well, time for some real life investigations then :)
[22:33] <GaryvdM> vila:
[22:33] <GaryvdM> vila: abentley wrote: Or you can call me in room 50
[22:34] <jam> vila: yeah, my other problem is that Syd => BNE was a different air carrier
[22:34] <jam> so if my bags got lost, they would be lost in Syd, far away from Mooloolaba
[22:34] <jam> I'm sorry to hear your bags failed you this time
[22:34] <jam> but hey, its sunny there, right? So you don't really need much clothing :)
[22:34] <GaryvdM> lo
[22:34] <GaryvdM> lol
[22:35] <vila> yeah, pretty much, only the swinsuit was in the bag :)
[22:36]  * vila afk, even phone reaches nobody, I really need to move that a.. of mine :)
[22:44] <offby1> Ignorant, non-manual-reading noob here ... So I just did a "bzr checkout --lightweight", edited a file, and typed "bzr commit", and was surprised to see "bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http:// ... ): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
[22:45] <offby1> I instead expected bzr to just commit my file.
[22:45] <offby1> So: does --lightweight mean something like "act like Subversion"?
[22:45] <idnar> I think that's roughly accurate
[22:45] <idnar> a lightweight checkout depends on the remote branch for all operations
[22:45] <offby1> ah
[22:46] <idnar> although bzr commit would still have failed on a regular checkout, I think
[22:46] <offby1> oh really?
[22:46] <idnar> but bzr commit --local would have succeeded
[22:46] <bob2> normally checkouts are actually branches, so you can commit to them without access to the remote (but the change will be autopushed).  with --lightweight, it's not.
[22:46] <offby1> Maybe I'm misunderstanding "commit" then.
[22:46] <offby1> let's try that
[22:46] <bob2> --local would have worked if it was non-lightweight
[22:46] <offby1> ah.
[22:47] <idnar> bzr checkout (no --lightweight) gives you a "bound branch"; committing to a bound branch is basically like committing and then pushing
[22:47] <offby1> so by default bzr discourages decentralized operations?  (That's not a flame, even if it kinda sounds like one)
[22:47] <idnar> bzr branch will give you an "unbound barnch"; I suspect that's what you're looking for?
[22:47] <bob2> offby1: not really
[22:47] <idnar> er, "unbound branch"
[22:47] <offby1> I have trouble keeping all these DVCs straight :)
[22:47] <offby1> "Bound Branch" sounds suspiciously like the name of a town in New Jersey
[22:48] <idnar> you can use "bzr reconfigure" to switch between the different types
[22:48] <offby1> (well, Bound Brook)
[22:48] <offby1> idnar: oho!
[22:48] <idnar> for example, in this case, it sounds like you'd want to do bzr reconfigure --tree
[22:48] <idnar> which gives you an unbound branch with a working tree
[22:48] <offby1> idnar: would I want "--standalone" also?
[22:49] <idnar> that probably wouldn't do anything, unless you already set up a shared repository
[22:50] <offby1> huh.  OK, trying --tree now.
[22:50] <offby1> (Probably time for me to re-read the docs; I suspect bzr has changed significantly since I last read 'em)
[22:50]  * offby1 suspects --tree is working: "iftop" shows lots of data being downloaded
[22:54] <jam> GaryvdM, vila: on the plus side, 48 hours has given me time to get down to 7 test suite failures on win32
[22:54] <jam> (--no-plugins)
[22:54] <jam> and  I haven't run the full suite in a bit
[22:54] <jam> since it takes... 2hrs to run
[22:55] <GaryvdM> jam: Nice
[22:55] <GaryvdM> I noticed the flood of merge requests...
[22:56] <GaryvdM> jam: I'm not sure if you saw my eairler question about the windows installer?
[22:56] <jam> GaryvdM: 'earlier' ? I don't remember one
[22:57] <GaryvdM> jam: If I want to build the windows installer without vs 2008, is it easy to disable the tbzr part?
[22:57] <jam> GaryvdM: bialix has done so
[22:57] <jam> I have not tried
[22:57] <GaryvdM> jam: how dissimilar is it to how you do it?
[22:57] <jam> GaryvdM: do you mean completely (like with mingw) or just using 2008 Express Edition?
[22:58] <jam> naoki also has a version of tbzr that doesn't need Standard edition, but is missing a couple small features
[22:58] <GaryvdM> jam: I don't mind installing vs 2008 express
[22:58] <jam> GaryvdM: so I would trust 2008 EE slightly more than mingw, as I do all of my bzr development with it
[22:58] <jam> (mingw for python2.5, though)
[22:59] <jam> I don't know what bialix did
[22:59] <jam> you might try grabbing lp:bzr-windows-installers
[22:59] <GaryvdM> jam: I would like to help with that for releases, but I want to familiarise my self with the process first.
[22:59] <jam> and see if you can get around the TBZR configuration steps in
[22:59] <GaryvdM> jam: will do
[22:59] <jam> tools/win32/buildout-templates/bin/build....bat.in
[22:59] <jam> GaryvdM: so at the moment, I connect to our shared Windows host, and run "make PYTHON=/cygdrive/c/Python25/python"
[23:00] <jam> I'm considering getting rid of make completely thouh
[23:00] <jam> though
[23:00] <jam> as it is the only step that needs it
[23:00] <jam> and all it does is run some bootstrapping commands
[23:00] <GaryvdM> ok
[23:00] <jam> Our build routines have a lot of unnecessary dependencies, etc.
[23:00] <jam> like 'cogapp'
[23:00] <jam> GaryvdM: you may also want to check out: lp:///~jameinel/bzr/windows-setup
[23:01] <jam> which has a new doc file
[23:01] <jam> where I'm outlining what it takes for me to set up the EC2 instance
[23:01] <jam> there are some fiddly bits
[23:01] <GaryvdM> ok - cool
[23:01] <jam> like hacking distutils for python2.4
[23:01] <jam> but it outlines dependencies, etc.
[23:01] <jam> and 'setuptools' does help for a lot of things
[23:02] <jam> note that we don't build on EC2 yet, though,  so the doc is probably incomplete
[23:02] <jam> I feel like we're pretty close
[23:02] <jam> only really missing VS 2008 Standard
[23:02] <jam> GaryvdM: at that point, building could be "start an instance of this EC2 snapshot, connect, run build, copy the installers"
[23:05] <jam> decisions decisions
[23:05] <jam> I'm hungry
[23:05] <jam> but so is my laptop
[23:05] <jam> ...
[23:08] <GaryvdM> jam: I would choose food!
[23:09] <visik7> http://planet.bazaar-vcs.org/ generate a broken feed
[23:09] <visik7> the Item inside the feed haven't a link
[23:09] <visik7> 		<link href=""/>
[23:09] <visik7> the atom feed
[23:11] <visik7> also the rss 2 and 1
[23:11] <jam> GaryvdM: well, I guess I'll see you in a few hours then. I'm off to forage
[23:11] <GaryvdM> visik7: The main html page is also missing like to the posts. :-(
[23:11] <visik7> yep
[23:11] <jam> GaryvdM: you can get there from the User link
[23:11] <jam> but yeah, the links are wrong for wordpress feeds
[23:11] <GaryvdM> jam: I'll be in bed then - so good night.
[23:11] <visik7> wordpress ?
[23:12] <vila> jam: the meeting room # is 63, just in case. See you later
[23:12] <jam> thanks vila
[23:13] <GaryvdM> Another bug with our planet (or the bzr dev blog) is that it cuts the posts from the bzr dev blog short.
[23:34] <GaryvdM> Woot qbzr 0.16 finally out!