=== m4v_ is now known as m4v
amichair...and deliver what we promote00:01
amichairno silly usability bugs00:01
jwisseramichair: I cannot tell you how right you are.00:01
amichaire.g. the software-properties (repo sources dialog) bugs I've been fixing for the past couple of days... they wouldn't pass a 30-minute qa session in any commercial company00:04
amichairand the whole app is just a gui, there's no real technical problem here...00:05
jwisseramichair: You are my new best friend.00:05
amichairwell I hope I can make things a tad better :-)00:05
jwisserThat is exactly the kind of thing that needs to get fixed.00:05
claydohjust having these dialogs means Kubuntu is  going to be better :)00:06
claydohyou folks rock!00:06
claydohoooh what a horse race! literally00:07
* claydoh is watching the breeders cup for some odd reason00:07
jwisserSo who else do we need to convince about this? (amichair and claydoh)00:08
amichairlol... I thought I wasn't getting some 'horse race' proverb from somewhere around the world ;-)00:09
jwisseramichair: I had a moment of that, too.00:09
amichairI think it has to come up here (or in the lists) with the major kubuntu devs00:10
jwisseramichair: And that's my question; I haven't been here long enough to know who those are.00:10
claydohprobably no one to convince, I think all the 'players' are/would be on board  thats why we have Timelord - to get more peeps involved and help form what we are going to become00:11
amichairme neither :-)00:11
=== Snova_ is now known as Snova
amichairclaydoh: yes, I meant not as much 'convincing' as getting everyone's mind-share on this00:12
jwisserclaydoh: It seems like some people who are determined to stick as closely as possible to the KDE upstream aren't liable to be pleased about the idea of pushing customization.00:13
claydohapachelogger, Scott K, Rid dell, and a number of others00:13
jwisserOr at least, the idea of including an-easier-to-find customization center.00:13
amichairso maybe we can get the KDE ppl to do it :-)00:13
claydohjwisser: customization can take many forms, but I think some small things are possible00:13
jwisserclaydoh: Nice thing about this channel is that I've already spoken to two of the three you mention by name. Good deal. :-)00:14
jwisserclaydoh: I'm not pushing for OOTB customization, just easier access to it for individual users.00:14
jwisseramichair: Dur. I'm still in closed-source mindset from using my Mac. I forget you can go ask people nicely.00:15
claydohjwisser: that probably would be better for upstream as it would elp out KDE greatly00:15
* jwisser goes to find the KDE dev channel.00:15
claydohre: the horse race, the favorite came from last place and ended up  winning - and setting history as the first female horse to win the race00:16
amichairclaydoh: we're making history here :-)00:16
claydohamichair: looks like it :)00:16
jwisserGotta say, I'm excited about the possibilities. :-)00:17
* amichair wishes he could make a living of open source dev00:18
jwisserFor now, I'm just gonna start reading #kde-devel. I don't want to go ask for something until the Kubuntu community as a whole is behind it.00:18
amichairjwisser: go a head and mingle :-)00:18
jwisserHow bad would the reaction be to including a closed-source app on the Kubuntu desktop? Theoretically speaking?00:27
claydohjwisser: never by default, will never happen00:27
claydohit would go very badly i am sure00:28
claydohjwisser: which app?00:28
JontheEchidnaUbuntu policy wouldn't allow it even if everybody wanted it :P00:28
claydohJontheEchidna beat me to that point00:29
jwisserUnfortunate. I was just thinking it would be extraordinarily badass if we could get the Doubletwist guys to port to Linux. "Just works" synching with craptons of media players and smartphones out of the box? Yes, please.00:29
jwisserI wonder if we could convince them to collaborate with Kubuntu devs on a FOSS version for Linux.00:30
jwisserIt occurred to me the other day that an app like that would to a long way toward distinguishing a given Linux distro.00:30
jwisserParticularly because I'm pretty sure they're working on iPhone syncing…00:31
jwisserImagine being the first distro with full iPhone sync.00:31
jwisserBetter still if we could add support for the Pre, as well.00:33
jwisserTalk about your killer app for a lot of users.00:33
jwisserBut, possibly I am crazy.00:35
claydohits gotta be FOSS tho, else we become linspire or worse :)00:35
jwisser::shivers:: Fair enough. None of that around here.00:35
amichairjwisser: well, we won't be the first - if they port, many distros will include it as well. Not that I think that's a bad thing :-)00:36
JontheEchidnaone thing I've found is that it's very hard to be unique00:36
jwisserEhhh, we could be the first. Little creative release timing. ;-)00:36
jwisserAnd a late announcement.00:36
JontheEchidnawe are pretty much first among the regular 6-month distros00:37
jwisserNot for long, sure, but we could be first to market and get a reputation for getting cool stuff done.00:37
jwisserAnd if you want new devs, that should bring a few in.00:39
amichairis it possible in bzr to update the log message for a commited revision?00:49
* JontheEchidna would like to know too00:50
JontheEchidnaI usually just bzr uncommit when that happens00:50
JontheEchidnawhich is inconvenient, to say the least00:50
amichairJontheEchidna: r u a long time kubuntu dev?00:55
JontheEchidnaI've been contributing since mid-2008, so not too terribly long-time compared to some here00:56
ScottKjwisser: What's the only netbook oriented KDE distro in the world?00:56
ScottKBeing first is a good thing and we can do it if we pick some right things to be first at.00:56
ScottKMarketing works in more than one direction.00:57
amichairScottK: good point! but how would u translate that for someone that has no idea what kde is?00:57
ScottKIn 6 months if several distros are pestering the netbook devs for stuff, where will their first attention go?00:58
ScottKHopefully to us.00:58
ScottKamichair: Part of the problem is that end users are really who you market to for netbooks.00:58
ScottKThe target market for netbooks is people making OEM decisions.00:59
ScottKThere is money in being pre-installed.00:59
ScottKThat drives a different kind of argument.00:59
ScottKIt is really hard to make existing GTK+ stuff scale down to netbooks.  That's why Canonical has a huge mobile team.01:00
ScottKQt/KDE 4, it's dead easy.01:00
amichairif these ppl hear kde, is that enough to give us a few extra points?01:00
ScottKNokia didn't buy Trolltech for charity.01:00
amichairalso, do scaling issues translate to oem problems, or ubuntu dev problems?01:01
ScottKQt is the future in small form factor computing compared to GTK.  It's already known the Maemo 6 will be Qt.01:01
ScottKamichair: Both.01:01
amichaircool (for us :-) )01:01
ScottKThe future may be Android or something else, but between GTK and Qt, I think in the next couple of years, Qt is the clear winner.01:02
ScottKamichair: Look at the size of the Canonical team working on Ubuntu Mobile desktop/launcher and look at us with 2 upstream devs and a few of us working part time.01:02
ScottKThe value position for an OEM in terms of cost risk is substantially lower with a Qt/KDE solution.01:03
bjoern_Hi, I need help. I just upgraded from jaunty to karmic and couldn't reboot.01:03
ScottKKDE is shinier than Gnome too.01:03
amichairyes, shiny is why I'm here :-)01:03
jwisser::laughs:: Shiny is what kept me away for so long.01:04
ScottKI heard someone at say that at install fests they just give Kubuntu CDs to people that ask for it or people that say Ubuntu is ugly.01:04
jwisser(Sorry, forgot to set away while making dinner.)01:04
bjoern_The upgrade terminated between installing and clean up, but I got a reboot anouncement which I followed.01:04
ScottKbjoern_: Did you try in #kubuntu?  That's the help channel.01:04
amichairis promotion/marketing necessary in that case? or is it just about finding the right half-dozen oem decision makers and sending someone to talk to them?01:04
ScottKamichair: That's promotion/marketing.01:05
jwisseramichair: Still counts as promotion and marketing. ;-)01:05
amichairok... u know what I mean :-)01:05
ScottKOne thing we need is a really shiny demo mode.01:05
jwisserThat's some of the hardest marketing to do, in fact, as a lot of those people have a small staff dedicated to keeping the riffraff away.01:05
ScottKIf we had that, a Kubuntu based netbook would fly off the shelves.01:05
bjoern_ScottK: Sorry, yes, but I didn't got an answer.01:05
ScottKbjoern_: What happens when you try to boot?01:06
amichairScottK: demo mode? isn't the regular user experience the aim of shininess?01:06
ScottKamichair: It needs to look sexy on a store shelf.01:06
ScottKThis is about marketing still.01:06
amichairScottK: that's my point... it needs to look that way all the time! if someone borrows my netbook to check their mail, they shold be jelous within 30 seconds...01:07
bjoern_ScottK: menu.lst had still the old kernel which didn't boot. And for the new kernel there is no initrd.01:07
ScottKbjoern_: How about #ubuntu then.  That's common between Kubuntu and Ubuntu.01:07
jwisseramichair: That's so, but have you been in an Apple store?01:07
* ScottK isn't so good with those kinds of problems.01:07
ScottKamichair: That too.01:08
bjoern_ScottK: OK, thanks I will try there.01:08
jwisserThey have machines set up to cycle into sexy ad screensavers.01:08
amichairI think viral marketing is quite important for gizmos (which netbooks still are)01:08
jwisserScottK: KNE is going to ship with Ubuntu One enabled, right?01:08
ScottKjwisser: Not decided for 10.04.  We'd need someone to write a KDE client.01:09
jwisserScottK: Then we need someone to write a KDE client. No-hitch syncing for the average (l)user is something Linux traditionally sucks at. We have an opportunity to be awesome here.01:09
ScottKSo point one in the marketing plan is a section of kubuntu.org that this theoretical OEM VP of engineering would look at and go "Wow, I need to have someone look into this."01:10
jwisserAs long as point zero is actually having the features. ;-)01:11
ScottKPart of the reason to focus marketing on the OEMs is OEM service contracts come with funding so Kubuntu has more paid devs and the abilty to do more stuff.01:11
ScottKjwisser: Certainly.01:11
ScottKjwisser: Much of the value propositon for Kubuntu Netbook exists today based on the technology and what we've already done.01:11
ScottKSo we can start to tell the story.01:12
jwisser::contemplates:: Working with OEMs could also give us an opportunity on flawless operation on certain hardware.01:12
jwisser*to ensure01:12
ScottKYes.  The existing Canonical OEM contracts are why Kubuntu Netbook works on as much hardware as it does.01:12
jwisserScottK: I'm just thinking it would be fantastic if our hypothetical OEM could sell a netbook/desktop combo by going "Holy crow, look at the syncing! Isn't that fantastic?"01:13
ScottKUnfortunately Ubuntu One only sync's between Linux machines, so it's of no help for someone wanting to sync between a Windows desktop and a Linux netbook.01:13
jwisserCould some enterprising Windows dev theoretically write a client?01:14
ScottK(and I have mentioned this point to them and they are waiting for a community developed Windows client)01:14
ScottKjwisser: Yes01:14
jwisserWell, I wasn't even expecting a Windows client.01:15
ScottKOK, I think for what you're looking for it's essential.01:16
jwisserI was thinking that possibly we could get some OEMs to try to sell *ubuntu netbook/desktop combos on the distinction of Ubuntu One alone.01:16
ScottKIt's not worth our time to do marketing work that just cannabalizes the existing Linux netbook market.01:16
ScottKI see.01:16
jwisser::nods:: Fair point.01:16
ScottKFor syncing, and OEM would be better off, at least today, making a deal to preinstall a dropbox client.01:17
jwisserRight. We need something to convince them that's not so. :-)01:18
ScottKToday it is so.01:18
jwisserWhy, specifically?01:18
ScottKDropbox is cross platform.01:19
* jwisser waves aside cross-platformness.01:19
jwisserAnything else?01:19
ScottK"This will help you sell more netbooks to people that already use Linux on their desktops" is no help.01:19
ScottKDropbox is cheaper for more space.01:19
jwisser50GB for $10 is identical, no?01:20
ScottKjwisser: I'd encourage you to do some research on why people think Nokia bought Trolltech.  I suspect that will help you understand the engineering reasons OEMs want a Qt/KDE solution even if they don't know it.01:20
ScottKOK, they've changed it then.  Initially it was 1001:21
* jwisser goes to do some research on the subject.01:21
amichairwho do I need to pay around here to review and merge some bugfixes?01:25
ScottKJontheEchidna is Mr. Bugs.01:26
ScottKamichair: What do you have?01:26
amichairI'm working on software-properties01:27
ScottKOK.  It's Python, right?01:28
ScottKOK.  I can review that.01:29
amichairI'm new to that as well, so would love to get feedback01:29
ScottKOK.  I'm a medium grade Python hacker.  We'll see.01:29
* amichair is trying to figure out where is bzr branch lives...01:30
amichairoh wait, I need to push (sorry, svn user...)01:32
amichairis it just 'bzr push'?01:33
macotell it where if you havent before01:33
macolike bzr push lp:~amichair/software-properties/doing-stuff01:34
macodoing-stuff being your branch name01:34
maco~amichair being your launchpad account01:34
macoassuming you were going to do it by pushing somewhere and doing a merge request. i dont think all the sponsors are clear on that process yet though, so debdiffs are still popular01:35
amichairhow can I tell if it's already associated with a remote location?01:36
jwisserIn case anyone was wondering, this is what we need to *not* do with our marketing: http://phones.verizonwireless.com/motorola/droid/01:37
macoamichair: i'm looking...01:39
macoamichair: bzr info01:40
amichairmaco: ok, I suspected so and didn't see it, so I'll just try what u recommended above01:40
ScottKamichair: You have to commit before you push.01:42
dtchenyou may want to look at other branches, too, that aren't listed in 'bzr info'01:43
macooh right...svn users arent used to that01:43
amichairScottK: yes, I commited every fix in a separate revision - good habits from svn :-)01:43
dtchen'bzr info' can be misleading, since you're not confined to what's in .bzr/branch/branch.conf01:43
amichairmaco: bad-habitted ppl aren't used to that :-)01:43
amichairwhy is it sending > 10M ? isn't it supposed to be sending only diffs?01:44
macoamichair: i meant svn people arent used to a 2-step process.  with svn you just commit and it goes remote always right? whereas here you commit locally and push to get it to the remote server01:44
macoprobably because the original doesnt exist at ~amichair/ yet01:45
amichairmaco: yep, exactly.01:45
macoand future pushes to the same spot will be just the diff01:45
amichairmaco: oh, I figured since it's branched off an existing project, it would know that...01:45
macoi think this is also the difference between branching and...um i think cloning?01:46
macoone has the entire history. the other doesn01:46
amichairI started it off with 'bzr branch'...01:47
amichairwell I don't mind, as long as I'm doing what's considered right for u guys :-)01:47
amichairok, done01:47
amichairnow where do I find it? what url do I give ScottK to review?01:48
macoah ok...so there's branch and  checkout...01:48
macogo to your launchpad page and hit the code button01:49
macoand it should be listed as one of your branches01:49
amichairoh I see - it's 'Branches'. my very first branch!01:49
amichairyes and it seems to have all previous history too01:50
amichairhmm... no indication of where it actually branched off from the main project01:51
macoyeah...i think "init" followed by "checkout" wouldnt have previous history01:51
dtchenit won't unless you're using using stacking01:51
macodtchen: wont what?01:51
dtchenit won't give any indication01:52
dtchenthat's more of a loggerhead issue, however01:52
amichairmaco: I read that co just takes the main code and tries to push it back there, which I can't. branch lets me work in my own area.01:52
amichairso, does this look the way u'd like it to? https://code.launchpad.net/~amichai2/software-properties/fixes01:53
amichair(wish I could change that 2 to an r... really confusing)01:54
dtchenremember to use the correct changelog-closing syntax, which is LP: #foo01:54
dtchenif you forget the colon or the hash, it's omitted.01:54
amichairok, good to know01:54
amichairdtchen: any way to update the log message retroactively?01:55
dtchenalso, debcommit(1) is a good thing01:55
dtchenamichair: the log message isn't that important; the changelog entries are more so01:55
amichairdtchen: what's that?01:55
dtchenamichair: a highly recommended tool01:56
dtchenif you have devscripts installed (and you should), check the man page for it01:56
adiroiban1hi. Kubuntu install UI app is using the same strings (text) as Ubuntu Ubiquity ?01:57
amichairI don't, and I will :-)01:57
adiroiban1or it is a different package ?01:57
dtchenin a nutshell, you generate commit messages based on entries in debian/changelog. The correct bzr/LP syntax for --fixes is done automatically.01:57
amichairwoah... quite a few dev scripts there :-p01:58
ScottKadiroiban1: I'm pretty sure it's different.01:59
ScottKshtylman: ^^^ ?01:59
adiroiban1ScottK: can you please point me to the source package / project of the kubuntu-installer02:00
ScottKadiroiban1: It's in the same source package (ubiquity)02:00
ScottKIt's just a different front end02:00
ScottKshtylman will know for sure.02:00
adiroiban1ok. looking at the ubiquity source, it looks like 99% of the strings  are reused02:01
adiroiban1reused / shared02:01
amichairdtchen: so I manually edit changelog, then use debcommit [files] instead of bzr commit -m?02:03
dtchenamichair: just debcommit -n02:03
dtchenamichair: and if that's satisfactory, do the real commit without -n02:03
dtchenamichair: debcommit takes care of bzr commit -m, as you'll note02:04
amichairdtchen: oki, and what's the standard for changelog entries?02:04
dtchenamichair: I'm only referring to the changelog syntax for closing bugs02:04
dtchenLP: #foo02:04
dtchenthere's some LP-fu on the backend that will link your bzr branch(es) to the bugs, too02:05
amichairdtchen: bug in general, I see there's urgency, indentation, etc...02:05
dtchenah, yes, follow the indentation02:05
amichairdtchen: or if I want to give a better explanation than the bug description, etc.02:05
dtchenurgency doesn't really matter as much for Ubuntu source packages02:05
macodont change the urgency02:05
macoas a general rule02:05
macomost ubuntu devs dont, some dont even realize that it has an effect and just assume its a debian-only thing. it doesnt have a huge effect really anyway...02:06
amichairand email address, and datetime... is there a tool that generates all this as well?02:06
ScottKdch -i02:06
dtchenit does affect build priority, but not in an obvious manner [and not for the typical source upload]02:06
macoin .bashrc02:06
macoexport DEBEMAIL='maco.m@ubuntu.com'02:06
macoexport DEBFULLNAME='Mackenzie Morgan'02:06
macothats in mine02:06
macoset to what yours should be02:06
macoand then dch will know what data to fill in02:07
macowow looking at .bashrc may have just told me why i cant get ibus working. i left the s off...02:08
macono seele? aww02:09
amichairok, now is there any way to change it retroactively in all them commits? or I'll just do better next time?02:10
dtchenamichair: don't worry about the previous commit messages02:11
amichairdtchen: and the "LP: #num" is just in the dch freetext?02:11
dtchenamichair: it's in debian/changelog02:11
dtchenI think that's what you're calling "dch freetext"02:11
amichairdtchen: I mean the text argument to "dch -i" which scott just mentioned02:12
dtchenamichair: yes02:13
amichairjust want to clarify, from now on all I do when a rev is ready is "dch -i bla bla [(LP: #num)]" followed by "debcommit [files]"? and that's it?02:13
dtchenwell, I tend to edit stuff in $EDITOR02:14
dtchena typical workflow for me would be: dch -i -> $EDITOR -> debcommit -n -> debcommit02:14
amichairthat's "dch -ie" instead?02:14
ScottKamichair: Just dch -i will open debian/changelog formated for a new revision ready for you to edit.02:15
macoshould open in nano i think as the default02:15
maco(i have EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim in my .bashrc though, so vim opens for me)02:16
amichairso "dch -i" -> edit (e.g. "bla bla [(LP: #num)]" or multiline with asterisks) -> debcommit on -> debcommit ?02:16
amichairoops, /on/-n/02:17
macolooks reasonable02:18
amichair(I just set vi as well...)02:18
amichairthanks guys, you've been very helpful :-)02:19
amichairScottK: the branch is at https://code.launchpad.net/~amichai2/software-properties/fixes02:19
amichairScottK: I promise to do the changlog stuff better next time :-)02:19
amichairScottK: and I would love any feedback at any level... whatever I can learn from :-)02:20
ScottKPersonally, I prefer a debdiff in a bug, but I'm old fashioned.  Let me see if I can manage this.02:20
amichairbut I gotta get going now, will check in tomorrow, it can wait till then02:21
shtylmanadiroiban1: the strings are the same as ubiquity02:21
adiroiban1shtylman: thanks! I just wanted to be sure02:22
amichairthanks everyone!02:22
adiroiban1the kubuntu frontend looks great :)02:22
shtylmanthanks :)02:22
JontheEchidnaamichair: whoa, you rock02:23
JontheEchidnathat's a lotta fixes02:23
amichairJontheEchidna: a lot? that's just one day! including learning python :-)02:24
amichairJontheEchidna: there's actually a tough one I couldn't close, a crash that looks like a messed up stack frame or something, very strange.02:24
adiroiban1shtylman: kudos for the great UI. I will come back with some i18n bugs :)02:25
amichairI could use some help there, maybe tomorrow :-)02:25
JontheEchidnaamichair: the one where clicking the checkbox crashes? Yeah, very strange02:25
JontheEchidnait's also been around forever :(02:25
amichairJontheEchidna: yep. happens also with keyboard. I got to one method call that if commented out crashes, if inlined doesn't crash, and if the first line in the nested call is changed to 'return', still crashes. hence it seems like a corrupt stack at the C level or something... really dunno02:26
shtylmanadiroiban1: sounds good02:27
JontheEchidnacould be a PyQt issue02:27
JontheEchidnaif regular Qt apps had such bugs we would seem them a lot more often, I'd think02:27
amichairbut I really don't know enough about it, that's just a very wild guess :-)02:27
amichairJontheEchidna: well maybe I'll look deeper into it when I have the time. but I figured I'd start with quantity over quality :-p02:28
amichairanyway, it's past my bedtime. cya guys around!02:30
macohmm pyqt is implemented in C still right? not C++?02:38
ScottKWhat makes you say that?02:39
DarkwingDuckHey ScottK, I'm sorta back.02:40
ScottKDarkwingDuck: Welcome.02:41
DarkwingDuck:) Push though a bit of pain but, I'm starting to try and get back into it.02:41
Lex79JontheEchidna: are you merging with debian testing?02:41
JontheEchidnaLex79: yeah, for the LTS we're merging with squeeze (testing)02:42
JontheEchidnabut really it's not that big of a difference for the KDE packages02:42
JontheEchidnasince it just means that the latest n' greatest shows up 10 or so days later02:42
ScottKOr 4002:43
ScottKSince KDE tends to get caught up with other stuff in transitions.02:43
JontheEchidnacould I get a sponsor for bug 477910?03:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 477910 in akonadi "akonadi 1.2.1: new changes from Debian require merging" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47791003:00
* akonadi .03:04
JontheEchidnaLex79: libs-experimental is going away in 4.4, probably not worth it to merge03:05
Lex79uhm :(03:05
Lex79ok thank you03:05
JontheEchidnano prob.03:06
ScottKJontheEchidna: Looking03:30
ScottKJontheEchidna: Have a look at rmadison libboost1.40-dev and then tell me why I don't want to upload your diff?03:32
JontheEchidnauniverse, careless of me03:33
ScottK1.40 for Boost is probably what we want, but we didn't decide yet.03:33
ScottKIt's not a big deal.03:34
JontheEchidnashould I update the diff or?03:35
ScottKI don't think there's a rush.  We'll decide at UDS week after next, so I'd just let it wait.03:36
ScottKSo apparently Flash sucks no matter what OS you use: http://twitter.com/BritishRT/statuses/548807705103:38
Lex79I'm wondering if fix_phonon_include patches could be removed for lucid...03:57
Lex79someone knows?03:57
macoNightrose: Script: http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.2.6/jquery.min.js:2204:24
macoNightrose: buzz.kde.org still makes firefox not-happy for me04:24
macoit says that script is either busy or not responding04:24
=== akonadi is now known as nihui
markeyanyone know a certain "Herald Strait"?07:12
markeythe face rings a bell...07:13
markeyI could swear it's... straitlogger or something07:13
amichairwhat exactly does 'Triaged' mean as a bug status?08:42
tsimpsonTriaged: the bug supervisor considers that the bug report contains all information a developer needs to start work on a fix.08:45
tsimpsonfrom https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/Statuses08:45
Peace-2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the principle or practice of allocating limited resources, as of food or foreign aid, on a basis of expediency rather than according to moral principles or the needs of the recipients08:46
MelisUWhy are KDE, Kubuntu and you folks so awesome?10:13
aceyHi all10:14
MelisUyw, but I demand an answer10:14
Peace-i have not read i am doing support on kubuntu right now10:15
QuintasanMelisU: Because we have Ninjas10:56
Quintasanoh, bot's dead10:56
Quintasanand apachelogger ain't here10:57
amichairmaco, dtchen, ScottK: I followed your changlog advice of yesterday, but I see it increases the changlog version to 0.75.5ubuntu1 instead of 0.75.6... is this normal?10:58
QuintasanRiddell: have you reviewed my debdiff? Can I push changes to bzr or it needs more love?10:59
Nightrosemaco: yea i know :( that's why i asked for coding help10:59
amichairis the correct next version 0.75.6 or 0.75.5ubuntu1?11:00
amichairQuintasan: apachelogger stormed out yesterday, said he needs a week to cool off :-(11:02
Quintasanamichair: what's the package?11:02
amichairQuintasan: software-properties11:03
Quintasanamichair: and what are you trying to do exacly?11:03
Hatlhi! i updated my kubuntu to 9.10. now it takes over two minutes until the startup is finished. i created a bootchart: http://h.imagehost.org/view/0687/gerhard-nb-karmic-20091108-111:04
Hatlcan anybody tell me whats wrong?11:04
amichairQuintasan: I made a bunch of bugfixes, and the fellas taught me how to make proper changlogs with dch and debcommit, but I see the auto-version-increment is inconsistent...11:04
Quintasansure it is11:04
amichairQuintasan: so I'm supposed to change it manually? or is this configured somewhere?11:04
Quintasanamichair: version format in ubuntu goes like this -> package.version-<debian_revision>-ubuntu<ubuntu-revision>11:04
Quintasanamichair: What's the previous version?11:05
amichairQuintasan: I'm looking down the changelog and see no 'ubuntu' in version numbers, just 0.75.1, 0.75.2,...,0.75.511:05
Quintasanlooks like this is a ubuntu specific package11:06
amichairQuintasan: it's an ubuntu-only package I guess, so is the numbering different?11:06
Quintasanamichair: change it manually to 0.75.611:07
amichairQuintasan: am I supposed to fix it manually, or is there something to configure or a param to dch or something like that?11:07
Quintasanamichair: dunno about parameter, I usually fix it by hand when version's wrong11:07
amichairQuintasan: ooh, and I just noticed it says 'kramic' instead of 'unreleased' too11:08
amichairQuintasan: which I'm assuming from the previous entry is the way to go...11:08
Quintasanamichair: I guess they won't kill you for wrong version11:08
amichairQuintasan: :-)11:08
Quintasanamichair: I would replace karmic with lucid if it's an update11:08
amichairQuintasan: too bad the tools don't make this less error-prone, as is the point of having tools :-)11:09
Quintasanamichair: I haven't seen you around here, are you new here or you had a break?11:09
Quintasanamichair: oh11:09
amichairQuintasan: new here11:09
Quintasanamichair: dch automatically changes to lucid but I suppose we don't have updated it yet11:09
Quintasandidn't update*11:10
amichairQuintasan: it's my first kubuntu dev work, so I'm learning the basics (thanks!)11:10
Quintasanamichair: everyone has to start somewhere :P11:10
* Quintasan is JontheEchidnas minion11:11
amichairQuintasan: and when they merge stuff, they renumber the versions to be consistent with merge order?11:11
Quintasanuhh, it's kinda confusing, you look for latest merge entry in ubuntu changelog and copy newer ones from debian11:12
Quintasanamichair: look on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/LucidKDEMerges for procedure, it's giving me and headache and JontheEchidna has done already 6 merges :P11:13
amichairScottK: I added another one to the bunch, hope the changelog is ok now :-)11:16
Quintasanurgh, wtf is with kubuntuforums.net? TBH I find it ugly11:16
amichairQuintasan: are you one of the ancient ones?11:20
Quintasanamichair: not really11:21
amichairQuintasan: who decides whether bugs of importance 'wishlist' should be implemented?11:23
Quintasanamichair: I think it's just a matter if someone you want to do it shows up11:24
Quintasanamichair: most bugs in wishlist are [needs-packaging] bugs11:24
amichairQuintasan: isn't that a problem? shouldn't there be some kind of overview of what's appropriate and what's feature creep or bloat or unmaintainable?11:25
yadudoc Hi , I removed amarok nightly and installed amarok from the ubuntu repos... but now I'm getting these errors.. http://codepad.org/4U0v0i8A . Could someone please help me with this ?11:28
amichairQuintasan: there's something fun about finding a duplicate bug report *after* you've already fixed it :-)11:31
yadudocamichair, :( i tries cleaning my apt-cache thinking the packages were corrupt and ended up downloading the whole thing .... and downloads burn a hole in the pockets here11:33
amichairyadudoc: did u try asking in #kubuntu ? that is the support channel11:34
yadudocamichair, I asked at #amarok and they forwarded me here. Should I ask at #kubuntu ?11:35
yadudocamichair, asking ... :)11:36
amichairyadudoc: yes, try there. #kubuntu is the support channel, whereas #kubuntu-devel is the developer channel11:36
Quintasanamichair: that's why I always look for duplicates, mark them as a duplicate the close the main one :P11:49
* markey fetches KDE 4.4.312:01
markeyyou rock :)12:01
markeywell, that is, if it works12:01
markeywe shall see :p12:01
markey4.3.3 even12:01
markeynot from the future12:01
apacheloggeramichair: ping12:07
amichairapachelogger: welcome back :-)12:07
apacheloggeramichair: did you get your changes merged yet? :)12:07
amichairapachelogger: waiting for ScottK to review... wanna have a look?12:08
Quintasanapachelogger: hiho12:08
apacheloggeryo Quintasan12:08
* apachelogger notes that Quintasan is not very timelordish12:08
amichairbut I'm gonna need lots of feedback! I want to learn! no 'tl;dr: I guess it's ok let's merge' :-)12:09
amichairit's at https://code.launchpad.net/~amichai2/software-properties/fixes12:09
* apachelogger is a furious reviewer anyway :P12:09
Quintasanapachelogger: well, dunno what I'm supposed to do, there is so much work that I'm lost :PP12:10
apacheloggerfirst fix is already why I find python so superior to C++12:10
apacheloggerQuintasan: what do you want to do anyway :P12:10
Quintasanlol dunno, I was about to merge something :P12:11
apacheloggermerging sounds good12:11
apacheloggerI'd really appreicate some solution to how-can-apachelogger-track-todo-items-for-the-whole-time-to-get-timelord-more-organized12:11
amichairanyone here know the insides of pyqt?12:13
apacheloggeramichair: r586 is no good12:13
apacheloggersee my commit msg why12:13
apacheloggerwhat is not in the application/pgp-keys mimetype should not be supported12:13
Quintasanapachelogger: got few seconds? seems like Riddell is busy and my kdetoys merge aint complicated12:13
apacheloggernot at all, not even virtually12:13
amichairapachelogger: where do I see that12:13
apacheloggeramichair: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amichai2/software-properties/fixes12:14
amichairapachelogger: I thought so too, asked about it here12:14
apacheloggeror if you do in your branch ... bzr log 58412:14
apacheloggeror you install qbzr and run bzr qlog12:14
apacheloggerlatter I can recommend12:14
amichairapachelogger: is that upstream? couldn't find where the mime types are set12:14
apacheloggeranywhere really :P12:14
apacheloggeramichair: you can google for freedesktop.org mimetype spec12:14
apacheloggerthat should turn up the underlying spec ... it basically defines that some regular mimetypes come form a shared spec package directly from freedesktop.org12:15
apacheloggeron top of that desktops can stack new ones12:15
apacheloggeror applications for that matter12:15
apacheloggerthus really anyone can provide a mimetype12:15
amichairI'm looking at the web link, don't see merge comment12:15
apacheloggerthe default ones are in /usr/share/mime/ if I am not mistaken12:15
apacheloggeramichair: 584. By Harald Sitter on 2009-09-0712:16
apacheloggerKDE frontend: replace old manual listing of file endings for key import12:16
apacheloggerwith mimetype based model (no need to support old stuff since it is so12:16
apacheloggerincredibly wrong... ending-wise that is)12:16
amichairapachelogger: oh ok, I read that :-)12:16
apacheloggeralso: that particular implementation makes the defined name untranslatable12:16
apacheloggeri.e. the dialog would show "PGP keys" in the filter bar no matter what12:17
amichairapachelogger: I figured what was really terribly wrong was that the previously set suffixes contained truly wrong suffixes which are incompatible12:17
amichairapachelogger: but I totally agree, just didn't know where the mimetypes are set12:18
amichairapachelogger: so, where's the bestest place to add it?12:18
apacheloggerwe should not support them fileendings12:18
amichairapachelogger: which?12:18
apacheloggerthat is my point here, they are wrong, they dont get more right if we manually add it to the mimetype12:19
apacheloggeramichair: the old ones12:19
amichairapachelogger: of course. but gpg *is* supported, and was missing after 584 rev., even though all keys I've seen used are gpg...12:19
amichairamichair: so where is the bestest place to add gpg to the pgp mime type suffix list?12:20
apacheloggeramichair: where is gpg supported?12:22
apachelogger.gpg is an encrypted file12:22
apacheloggernot a key12:22
amichairapachelogger: importing gpg keys works, it's all I ever used12:22
apacheloggersame goes for pgp12:22
apacheloggeramichair: gpg keys end with asc, pkr or skr12:23
apacheloggerany key ending with something else is also just wrong12:23
apacheloggercheck with kgpg12:23
apacheloggerit will spit out asc12:23
apacheloggerso will the gpg cli tool12:23
amichairoh in that case my rev. should be destroyed immediately!12:23
apacheloggergpg and pgp are not valid file endings for keys12:23
amichairamichair: I guess my test files were bad12:24
apacheloggerwell, where did you get the files from?12:24
apacheloggeror did you have them lying around?12:24
amichairamichair: that's what I'm trying to figure out :-)12:24
apacheloggermoving on12:27
apacheloggeramichair: copright and author in DialogAdd.py are wrong :P12:27
apacheloggeramichair: DialogAdd should implement a KDialog, not a QDialog12:27
amichairapachelogger: not entirely... it was mostly copied :-)12:28
apacheloggeramichair: yeah, thus the wrongness :P12:28
apacheloggeramichair: did you stick to the code used in Gtk's DialogAdd?12:28
amichairapachelogger: I thought copied copyrighted works remain under the original authors copyright12:29
apacheloggerbecause the check+line seems a bit different :)12:29
apacheloggeramichair: where did you copy from?12:29
amichairapachelogger: well it was a mix of kde DialogEdit and gtk DialogAdd12:29
amichairapachelogger: one for gui, the other for functionality12:29
apacheloggeramichair: gtk > kde in this case, since gtk forms a reference implementation12:29
apacheloggeramichair: check_line misses a ppa check at the very least12:30
apacheloggeramichair: and yes, copied work remains under original copyright :)12:30
* apachelogger assumed you mastered that up on your own12:30
amichairapachelogger: yep, DialogEdit inherits QDialog not KDialog, I copied from there12:31
apacheloggerstill should implement a KDialog, so should DialogEdit I suppose12:31
amichairapachelogger: as for the ppa check.. well there are 4 different versions of this method in the package, not all consistent12:31
apacheloggeramichair: maybe check the bzr log, if Riddell mentioned a reason for using QDialog over KDialog, then maybe add a comment to DialogAdd and DialogEdit stating why to use QDialog and not KDialog12:31
apacheloggerif not, then try porting to KDialog12:31
apacheloggeramichair: yeah, software-properties is a collection of duplicated rap12:32
apacheloggerthus my frustration yesterday12:32
apacheloggerother than the stuff mentioned DialogAdd should be good12:32
Quintasanapachelogger: http://hs.quintasan.pl/kdetoys.tar.gz -> mind looking if it's good enough?12:36
apacheloggerI always thought the policy suggests reporting bugs about merge reviews? :P12:36
apacheloggeramichair: code looks good otherwise, get the remaining issues fixed and I'll take it for a test drive12:37
Quintasanapachelogger: I'm too lazy to report a bug, I propably will upload diffs over 9000 times so I'd rather ask someone to look at it first :P12:37
apacheloggeramichair: oh, btw, you really really want to make the changelog reflect all larger/important changes12:37
Quintasanalso, lol @ konq, shows only top of the page12:37
apacheloggeramichair: also as long as there is an entry saying UNRELEASED you should add your stuff just to that entri12:38
apacheloggerdch -a will take care of that12:38
apacheloggerQuintasan: +kdetoys (4:4.3.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1) karmic; urgency=low12:38
amichairapachelogger: yes, I had a little tutoring session about debcommit and all yesterday (after all but the last commit)12:39
amichairapachelogger: ok, I was told to use dch -i but I'll read up on it :-)12:40
apacheloggerQuintasan: in DebianVsNew uploaders differs even though it should not12:41
apacheloggerQuintasan: is there any point in having the build-deps bumped?12:41
apacheloggerif not, please refrain from that12:41
apacheloggeramichair: dch -i will increment12:41
apacheloggerdch -a will add a new change12:41
amichairapachelogger: and when should either be used?12:41
apacheloggerdch -a as long as the series field says UNRELEASED12:42
apacheloggerit means the version at hand was not uploaded to the archives12:42
apacheloggerso you can just add your changes to that entry12:42
amichairand then the date/author is lost? or appended somehow as well?12:42
apacheloggerjust try it out :P12:43
amichairoki :-)12:43
apacheloggerremove your entry from debian/changelog, so mine is the latest12:43
apacheloggerthen run dch -a and see what happens12:43
apacheloggerQuintasan: +Section: kde in kteatime12:44
amichairok, well I'll try it out for next commit, since I have 6 missing changelogs anyway :-)12:44
apacheloggerQuintasan: drop that, it is redundant with the source section ... section gets inherited from the source section, if it is added to the binary section it will just override that12:45
apacheloggerQuintasan: +Section: games ... in kweather <- looks ultimately wrong?12:45
apacheloggerQuintasan: you lost the README.source file12:45
amichairapachelogger: btw the ppa format is not documented there (or supported by SourceEntry, it seems) - what's the format?12:45
apacheloggerQuintasan: it would be really nice if youd review your diffs before proposing them :S12:46
amichairapachelogger: perhaps it should be added to SourceEntry, so all users get it for free?12:46
apacheloggermerging is not russion roulette but a perfect oportunity to clean up our crap12:46
apacheloggeramichair: I dunno, take a look at the gtk stuff12:47
apacheloggerwhatever it does... just duplicate it :P12:47
amichairapachelogger: there's no mention of it other than that missing check12:47
apacheloggerjust do what the gtk version does :P :P :P12:47
apacheloggerdont think about it ... there is no logic in our pythonware12:47
apacheloggerwe duplicate that utf8(str) stuff in almost all apps instead of creating a convenience function12:48
amichairapachelogger: should I copy over all the gtk-specific bugs from launchpad too? :-P12:48
apacheloggertranslation is handled 100% different in each app12:48
apacheloggerthere is no logic12:48
apacheloggeramichair: if they dont care, why should we :P12:48
amichairapachelogger: because we want to be bug free!12:48
apacheloggerit's just a suggestion, but usually when you start digging too deep you will end up with an urge to rewrite the app :P12:48
amichairfree as in speach, free as in beer, free as in bugs12:49
apacheloggeramichair: give it a shot :)12:49
=== nihui_ is now known as nihui
amichairapachelogger: yes, I already got that urge... so much duplicate code!12:49
amichairapachelogger: and sometimes python code is soooo verbose... got to get used to it12:49
apacheloggerpython is ugly and stupid(tm)12:50
apacheloggeramichair: if you rewrite it ... please take a look at who UI construction is handled in jockey and apturl12:50
amichairapachelogger: like yesterday I asked: http://paste.ubuntu.com/311619/12:50
apacheloggertheu use a centralized UI abstraction class where strings get passed through ... especially jockey uses a wonderful approach to that12:50
apacheloggersoftware-properties is supposed to use such a design from what the implementation looks like12:51
apacheloggeramichair: first is no go12:52
amichairwell I'm not gonna rewrite it today... I feel too much of a noob to make huge changes. once all bug are gone, maybe I'll start with refactoring.12:52
amichairapachelogger: yes, that's what I've been told12:52
apacheloggeramichair: I'd jump into refactoring first ... some bugs might autoresolve by that12:52
apacheloggeramichair: that looks in python worse than it would look in c++ :P12:53
amichairamichair: and in python it does look a bit ugly, in other languages more natural. but the advantages are many...12:53
apacheloggerwhat would the advantage be?12:53
apacheloggerother than making it difficult to read in almost every language12:53
amichairI beg to differ:12:53
amichairif going over a method that does lots of things, with the first format, I need only parse 2 words to know that all the code does is enable/disable a button.12:54
amichairwith the second, I need to parse all 8 lines to reach the same conclusion12:54
amichairit's much more work to maintain and read12:54
amichairand makes everything... 8 times longer12:55
amichairthe difference between maintaining a 100 line or 800 line class is huge!12:55
amichairI'm not talking about mangling everything onto one line12:55
amichairu can keep things simple and readable, and still save a lot of space, bugs, and time12:55
apacheloggeramichair: you only need to look at 2 words because you know what you are looking for12:55
apacheloggerthat might be different when you hacked 3 months in cpp12:56
apacheloggeralso, inthe second you read three words12:56
amichairnope. I see it's a single method call on a single object.12:56
amichairin the second case, there might be variable assignments in there, or other things that are easy to miss, or it might be referencing two different objects with similar names...12:57
apacheloggerthat is unnecessary information12:57
amichairapachelogger: and who's to guarantee the last line does enable button_edit_ok2?12:57
apacheloggeramichair: that is also unnecessary information12:57
amichairu have to read and process the whole thing, every time u look around that code12:57
apacheloggerno, you look at the if and the setenabled12:58
apacheloggerthe true is just so you know that the call goes to an object and not about an object12:58
amichairyes, but there are 2 ifs, one else, and 3 setenabled, and u have to find them horizontally and vertically before u can be sure12:58
apacheloggerother than that no parsing is done12:58
apacheloggeramichair: python enforces indention12:59
apacheloggerin other languages I might agree on the finding part, in python I dont12:59
amichairapachelogger: indentation doesn't help in this case12:59
apacheloggerah well12:59
apacheloggerpointless discussion12:59
amichairapachelogger: I still can't tell the second if doesn't have within the indented block and extra variable assignment...12:59
apacheloggerhere is the ultimate reason not to use the first12:59
apacheloggeryou are not alone12:59
apacheloggeranyone who is not experienced enough to prase the former will have to spend a great deal of time thinking about it13:00
amichairapachelogger: that's the same reason I'd prefer the first. less work for everyone else :-)13:00
apacheloggerand if you have loads of such calls then the unexperienced person is boned13:00
apacheloggereventually driving him away13:00
apacheloggeramichair: yeah, because they leave13:00
apacheloggeryou always have to consider that however looks at the code after you created it might not know programming all to well, or python for that matter13:01
amichairfrom my experience, code quality degrades with proportion to both time and verboseness13:01
apacheloggerbecause he wantes to get started and stuff, so he tries to hunt down some minor issue13:01
apacheloggerhits that line13:01
apacheloggerand gives up13:01
apacheloggertrust me, I had a lotta discussion about this kind of stuff the past few weeks ... it always comes down to using technically less advanaced solutions for the sake of success13:02
amichairapachelogger: having someone who doesn't know how to code (in any language) work on code is problematic in many ways... but I see your point.13:03
amichairin any case, I see this is the standard here, and I respect it13:03
amichairwhich is why, variations of these 8 line appear in 4 different places, rather than 1 line each :-)13:03
apacheloggerin austria ~50 % of all software projects fail completely because too much engineering gets put into generally simple things13:03
amichairapachelogger: that would be a point in favor of the more concise writing, from my pov13:04
amichairit's much easier to create/hide/miss bugs in a 40 line method than a 5 line method13:04
apacheloggeramichair: what you propose is too much engineering13:04
Quintasanapachelogger: we will be building 4.3.3 against 4.3.2 libs?13:04
amichairapachelogger: it's syntax, not engineering. they are semantically equivalent 100%13:05
apacheloggeramichair: that builds on the assumption of single-person maintenance13:05
apacheloggeramichair: the combo makes it bad13:05
amichairoverengineering would be making 3 classes to handle just that snippet :-)13:05
apacheloggercombine unreadable syntax with high glevel engineering and I can tell you that the project will fail in 99% of all possible cases13:05
apacheloggeramichair: not overengineering13:06
apacheloggerin fact, overengineering just increases the effort of getting used to the code base13:06
apacheloggerI am talking readability at large here13:06
amichairapachelogger: again, 'unreadable syntax' is what u call the second, and I call the first :-)13:06
amichairapachelogger: some of our arguments are identical, just different pov13:07
apacheloggeramichair: the former is unreadable syntax, google for unreadable C and you will stuff like that, just written in C13:07
apacheloggerany good coding standard will explicitely mention to not use the first version13:07
apacheloggerit is more efficient in about all aspects, but not the most important one, which is making the code accessible to a team of different people13:07
amichairlet me give u a simpler example, making my point: http://paste.ubuntu.com/313265/13:08
apacheloggerQuintasan: no, but technically 4.3.3 depends 4.3.013:08
apacheloggernot 4.3.1 not 4.3.2 not 4.3.313:08
apacheloggerabi is all fixed within a series13:09
Quintasanapachelogger: damn, I'd be better with copying Debians work and applying our changes there13:10
apacheloggeramichair: those are not equal statements13:10
apacheloggerQuintasan: quite possibly :P13:10
Quintasanalso, wiki should link to SID not experimental, can I change this?13:10
apacheloggerQuintasan: or you could create an app that does automerge :P13:10
apacheloggerQuintasan: I seem to remember that there was some mail about merging from experimental13:11
Quintasanthat would be another thing that Timelord would have to fix :P13:11
apacheloggerbetter check ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-devel-discuss or something first13:11
amichairapachelogger: (assuming the method return a boolean, of course)13:11
Quintasanapachelogger: packages.debian.org/source/experimental/kdetoys shows there is no such package13:11
apacheloggeramichair: those are two different things13:12
Quintasanwhile sid works13:12
amichairor maybe just replace it with something_or_other == good_thing13:12
apacheloggeramichair: this is a bad example since it largely depends on what should be returned13:12
apacheloggerobviously you will not condition a bool to return a bool13:12
amichairapachelogger: that's exactly that 'obviously not in this case' I was aiming for...13:13
apacheloggeresp not if the coding standard suggests var names to include data types13:13
Quintasanapachelogger: also, we are just comparing debian dirs, so why download to whole source rather than bzr branch?13:13
amichairapachelogger: all I'm saying is that in many other cases, as before, I read it the same as in this case. it's just much more words and work to do the same thing, and just as readable13:13
amichaircorrected here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/313272/13:14
apacheloggerthey are different things :P13:14
apacheloggerin one you try to close the door to see that the door was open hence open the door so it is open again, of which you are sure now, since you closed it13:14
apacheloggerin any other you enter the room, check if the window is open and if so, turn off the radiator, and close the door unless the window is closed in which case you turn on the radiator and leave the door open13:15
amichairI think my mind just had a buffer overrun :-)13:16
* apachelogger can trigger that13:17
apacheloggeramichair: the examples are to suggest the difference between making simple things complicate while making complicated things simple13:18
amichairapachelogger: again, that argument is problematic, because from my pov the option I prefer *is* the one that makes things simpler13:19
amichairamichair: that's why I prefer it!13:19
apacheloggeryou can also turn off the radiator after entering the room, but that depends on the assumption/knoweldge that the room was not left while the window was open and the radiator off, since the door was closed13:19
amichairsee that? I'm writing to myself now, that buffer overrun is about to cause a segfault13:19
apacheloggeramichair: those are not options13:20
apacheloggerthose are different cases13:20
apacheloggereither you enter the room and check if stuff is in order and then set action, or you enter the room and set action, knowing that stuff must be in order because otherwise you would not have left the room previously13:20
apacheloggerso for someone who does not yet know that the room wont be left unless the windows i closed and the radiator turned on it will be difficult to understand why you can just enter the room and turn the radioator off without running into the problem that the radioator might already be off13:21
Quintasanzomfg, the uploader issue is s/trigger/armin13:22
Quintasanapachelogger: I should keep what debian has in Uploaders?13:22
apacheloggerthe field only matters to them anyway :P13:22
apacheloggerthe less diff, the better13:22
Quintasanand drop Sections?13:22
apacheloggerQuintasan: yes13:22
Quintasanapachelogger: I'm copying the vcs-bzr fields too, is that okay?13:23
apacheloggercopying from where?13:24
amichairapachelogger: so, would u still want me refactoring the package? :-P13:24
Quintasanapachelogger: form our control to debian's13:24
Quintasanapachelogger: will lucid still have -kde4 packages?13:25
Quintasanwe could drop Conflicts and Replaces lines if we drop -kde4 packages13:26
apacheloggeramichair: as long as you keep the code comply with the particse applied until know13:26
apacheloggerQuintasan: -kde4 needs to stay at least as long as we support releases that had the -kde4 packages13:27
Quintasankay, copying over13:27
apacheloggerso at least until 8.04 reaches EOL which might be the case13:27
apacheloggerQuintasan: the vcs tags need to be in the new control13:27
Quintasanyup, so I removed what debian supplies and placed our links to bzr there13:28
amichairis there a preferred way to fix/update a previous commit? so that they can be applied without interference form other commits in between?13:30
apacheloggerbzr revert I suppose13:33
Quintasanapachelogger: we don't have README.source, I guess I will copy it, right?13:33
amichairrevert destroys the local changes, no?13:34
ryanakcaamichair: I believe so13:34
ryanakcaamichair: If you're using git, you could go 'git rebase -i'... but I guess you're using bzr13:35
amichairryanakca: yep, bzr13:35
amichairI saw there's an uncommit, wonder if it can be used this way. uncommit a particular revision, append to the modifications, and commit13:36
ryanakcaamichair: Try the bzr-rebase package.13:36
ryanakcaamichair: But that would squish the current revision with the previous one and the changes you wanted to make to the previous one, no?13:36
ryanakcaapachelogger: Why would we need to keep -kde4 until then? People wouldn't be doing a direct upgrade, and on the way up the versions, wouldn't the replaces lines do their magic and give people the packages without -kde4? (I'm guessing here)13:39
amichairryanakca: it seems uncommit can only work on last revision, or everything from last to X. no good for me.13:41
ryanakcaamichair: *nod*... bzr-rebase might do the trick then.13:42
Quintasanryanakca: because we support 8.04 for err, few years and our policy is to provide smooth transition from any supported version :P13:42
ryanakcaQuintasan: Despite jumping versions being (or having been?) unsupported. Ok, thanks :)13:43
Quintasanapachelogger: I'm doing a debdiff between debian's kde and our 4.3.3 from ppa, is that alright? looks like you complained about ~ppa1 in name :P13:47
Quintasanmerging is even moar time consuming than compiling a new release :P13:48
amichairapachelogger: so how would u like it? I put the old 'informative' changelog message on the new revision which actually fixes the previous one?13:53
amichairapachelogger: or make a separate message in changelog and commit message, one for releas and the other describing the actual changes in rev.?13:55
Quintasanapachelogger: http://hs.quintasan.pl/kdetoys-ver666.tar.gz <-- this must be good, I swear upon gods13:57
QuintasanI diffed, then diffed and diffed and everything seemed right13:57
Quintasanor maybe my brain is that tired and it want's me to stop13:58
amichairapachelogger: when changing all dialogs from QDialog to KDialog, is there anything in particular I should take notice of? or is it fully backwards compatible?14:03
apacheloggerryanakca: I would prefer being save, for the love of our users14:23
apacheloggeramichair: dunno, might need changes kdialog is more magical than qdialog14:24
apacheloggeramichair: I really dont care how you unsort the commit mess :P14:24
JontheEchidnareview on Planet KDE: http://ciesbreijs.blogspot.com/2009/11/freedom-desktops-closing-in-on-me.html14:46
amichairapachelogger: how about the other fixes?14:54
ghostcubehmm the kernel update from today fixes my uvc driver bug14:57
ryanakcaIs merging a package that Debian has in a VCS any different than otherwise (cmake packaging is stored in Git in Debian)?15:03
ryanakcaAlso, why do we add the build-dep on libxmlprc-core-c3-dev if Debian doesn't?15:21
ryanakca(for cmake that is)15:22
claydohapachelogger: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Support15:30
=== bakkdoor is now known as bakkdoor|afk
=== bakkdoor|afk is now known as bakkdoor
ryanakcaCan someone review my cmake merge on REVU ( REVU hasn't updated yet, should appear shortly: http://revu.tauware.de/p/cmake )16:42
ryanakca... errr... merge-genchanges didn't include the source tarball in the upload, but it's the same as what's currently in the archive16:44
ghostcubehmm does anyone in here kow an grafical sensors tool that can handle atk0110-acpi17:52
ghostcubefrom lmsensors17:52
LureScottK: shouldn't you put KubuntuUpdatePolicy to TB agenda?17:58
adiroibanhi. do you know why the required translations are not provided in the kover package?18:23
adiroibanI have checked the upstream release and it contains the translations http://lisas.de/kover/download.php318:24
adiroibankover is part of Universe so the translations are not handled by Rosetta and langauge pack18:25
ghostcubeare the restricted modules now called backport modules `18:25
dtchenthere are no restricted modules as of 9.1018:26
dtcheneverything has been offloaded into separate source packages that are built using DKMS18:27
dtchenlinux-backports-modules-2.6.31 is a very specific set of Free drivers that are simply newer snapshots of what's in linux18:27
ghostcubeah ok thx18:27
Tonio__ScottK: for KNE : http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Bangarang?content=113305&PHPSESSID=57332e226cbd1ad28abf1b4f1a40f4d918:44
Tonio__ScottK: potential replacement for amarok18:44
ryanakcaTonio__: I could package that sometime this week or next weekend....19:23
Tonio__ryanakca: would be nice :)19:24
ryanakcaTonio__: OK19:24
rgreeningsebas: ping19:49
rgreeningsebas: got a question about google + akonadi + contacts sync weirdness...19:49
rgreeningand if there's a correct way to do it?19:50
ryanakcargreening: Are you in a merge reviewing mood?20:01
rgreeningjust about to head out for the evening... sorry ryanakca20:06
ryanakcargreening: No worries20:29
* ryanakca scratches his head and wonders why 'dir ~' works, but 'ls ~' creates an ls process in 'uninterruptible sleep' ('D' process state in ps)21:40
apacheloggeradiroiban: the po stuff is not ported to KDE 4's build system22:14
apacheloggergod knows why22:14
adiroibanapachelogger: thanks. I have implemented the required changes22:15
apacheloggeradiroiban: please consult with upstream first22:15
apacheloggerthere might be a reason for that after all22:15
adiroibanyep. I have send an email22:15
adiroibanit's bug #47850722:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 478507 in ubuntu-translations "Kover upstream translations are not available in Ubuntu" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47850722:16
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!