[00:10] <_Narc_> Bye guys, thanks for your help.
[00:45] <hggdh> OK. eeebotu will be offline for a few minutes for a reboot after security updates
[00:48] <hggdh> eeebotu is back
[01:11] <bibinou> micahg, if I can borrow a bit of your time
[01:11] <bibinou> about : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/476082
[01:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 476082 in firefox-3.5 "can't see or use add-ons" [Undecided,Invalid]
[01:11] <micahg> yes
[01:12] <bibinou> the fact that his profile became corrupt isn't a bug ?
[01:12] <micahg> not necesarily
[01:12] <micahg> could be the user ran FF as root
[01:12] <micahg> could be a bad extensions
[01:12] <micahg> *entension
[01:12] <micahg> *extension
[01:12] <bibinou> i'm new to this some I was not sure I this was resolved or not
[01:13] <bibinou> ok so I can close such bugs involving profile corruption
[01:13] <micahg> user had some extensions
[01:13] <bibinou> thanks !
[01:13] <micahg> bibinou: well, if the user tries to figure it out as to what's wrong, I usually give them a chance
[01:13] <micahg> this user seemed happy with a new profile
[01:13] <bibinou> ok
[01:14] <bibinou> i was about to give him some clue to migrate his bookmarks for instance
[01:14] <micahg> if there is a profile corruption issue that we can actually point to corruption due to firefox as an issue, that's a bug :)
[01:14] <micahg> bibinou: BTW, you might want to join bugsquad
[01:14] <micahg> https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad
[01:15] <bibinou> yeah but i don't really understand what is it all about
[01:15] <bibinou> if I'm tied to do some stuff if I join bugsquad
[01:15] <micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/
[01:15] <micahg> nope
[01:15] <micahg> not tied
[01:15] <micahg> you do what you can when you want
[01:16] <maco> you just have more permissions on launchpad
[01:16] <bibinou> micahg, ok thank you
[01:16] <bibinou> will do :)
[01:16] <micahg> maco: what extra permissions do bug squad members have?
[01:16] <maco> er oh wiat
[01:16] <maco> sorry no thats bugcontrol
[01:16] <maco> i fail at reading :)
[01:17] <micahg> :)
[01:17] <micahg> bibinou: if you have any questions about firefox bugs, feel free to ping me in here or in #ubuntu-mozillateam as I'm the primary triager for them as the moment
[01:17] <nigel_nb> hi
[01:18] <bibinou> micahg, ok thank you
[01:18] <nigel_nb> I just joined bug squad and went through the instructions and stuff
[01:18] <nigel_nb> just wanted to say Hi to everyone out here :)
[01:18] <micahg> hi nigel_nb, do you have any questions?
[01:19] <nigel_nb> micahg: so far the getting started guide is very informative.. I haven't started triaging bugs yet...
[01:19] <nigel_nb> micahg: wanted have everything ready in bookmarks so that I know exactly whats the problem
[01:19] <micahg> ok, feel free to ask any questions you have, there's usually someone in here most of the time
[01:20] <nigel_nb> micahg: thanks.  Will do :)
[01:42] <bibinou> I don't really "get" the difference between package and project on launchpad, from a maintener point of view
[01:43] <bibinou> what is the point for mozilla to have a project on launchpad for instance ?
[01:43] <micahg> bibinou: upstream contact
[01:43] <micahg> that's where we link to bugzilla.mozilla.org
[01:43] <bibinou> ok
[04:41] <dtchen> ahhh. After a long week, finally inbox zero for new Karmic audio bugs.
[06:11] <ausimage> I am wondering if anyone has caught on that dbus is broken in Karmic yet ???
[06:12] <ausimage> I just verified this with google...
[06:12] <micahg> ausimage: can you be more specific?
[06:12] <ausimage> I personal have at least two broken apps due to Unhandled message: interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable
[06:13] <ausimage> Looking at the search results... epiphany... vinagre... scanning and printing setup at least are effected
[06:14] <micahg> vinagre is bug 429989
[06:14] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 429989 in vinagre "vinagre WARNING: Unhandled message: interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429989
[06:14] <ausimage> Bug #440767
[06:14] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 440767 in system-config-printer "When configuring HP PSC2510 printer scanner, scanner not setup" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440767
[06:15] <micahg> epiphany is bug 459593
[06:15] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 459593 in epiphany-browser "epiphany-browser bug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/459593
[06:15] <ausimage> yeah all caught by dbus...
[06:15] <ausimage> though filed under the app itself...
[06:15] <ausimage> I filed under epiphany myself :S
[06:16] <ausimage> though I did not realize at the time the extent of the breakage
[06:16] <micahg> well, I don't know much about dbus
[06:16] <ausimage> neither do I... should these really be merged ?? :/
[06:17] <micahg> I don't know, I suggest coming back later Sunday when someone else is in here
[06:17] <ausimage> micahg: my other concern is that it appears centered around ubuntu... like a dbus patch was not applied or something :S
[06:18] <micahg> well, thank you for being concerned :)
[06:19] <ausimage> I don't do alot of triage myself... but I did notice the pattern
[06:19] <ausimage> ;)
[06:19] <ausimage> I will try to drop in tomorrow again... though I have a full day with a release party... :)
[06:20] <micahg> so, the best thing would probably be to come back in a while
[06:20] <ausimage> hmmm micahg what TZ u?
[06:20]  * ausimage EST
[06:21]  * micahg is in CDT
[06:21] <micahg> oops
[06:21] <micahg> CST
[06:21] <ausimage> ah midwest ;)
[06:21] <micahg> yeah, so in about 10 hours would probably be when the american people get in here
[06:22] <micahg> on Monday, you can be sure to find someone in here
[06:22] <ausimage> then I will definitely try back Monday... thought I hope some do scan their scroll back in the mean time ;)
[06:23] <ausimage> laterz....
[11:17] <Promethes> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/410407 - this is very annoying bug (Flash is not recognizing mouse clicks in multiple situations) and maybe i am wrong but isee that this will not be fixed in Karmic ("Declined  for Karmic"). Anyone knows why? Solution for this bug is present in comments on that page
[11:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 410407 in flashplugin-nonfree "[READ DESCRIPTION] Flash is not recognizing mouse clicks in multiple situations" [High,Confirmed]
[11:31] <Hobbsee> Promethes: because that file that gets modified is directly from adobe
[11:31] <Hobbsee> Promethes: and it's in the licence agreement that the files can't be modified
[11:31] <Hobbsee> it appears
[11:33]  * Hobbsee hasn't checked the licence file recently, but that's the general reason why we can't redistribute it how we'd like, or change it
[11:36] <Promethes> Hobbsee: as far as i can see, this bug affects only 64bit karmic when flash 32bit is used (through nspluginwrapper) and one change  in /usr/lib/nspluginwrapper/i386/linux/npviewer makes this bug disappear
[11:38] <Hobbsee> hm, it's gpl'd
[11:39] <Hobbsee> there's got to be another reason why they haven't put it in, then
[13:48] <yofel> bdmurray: I'm not sure hwo to ask, but the kernel stock reply in the ffx-lp-improvements is out of sync with Bugs/Responses, can anyone update this?
[13:48] <yofel> s/hwo/who/
[15:34] <bdmurray> yofel: can you send me an e-mail about that and I'll sort it out
[15:57] <toresbe> Hello folks :)
[15:58] <toresbe> I think I have what appears to be a bug on a fresh Karmic install. "Enable wireless" is greyed out in nm-applet.
[16:01] <toresbe> I was thinking I should enclose the WLAN-relevant part of dmesg, the relevant parts of syslog and the output of nm-tool, iwconfig and ifconfig
[16:01] <toresbe> any more or less?
[16:15] <greg-g> toresbe: that is a good set of info. I'm wondering if it might be kernel related (kernel not recognizing the card?)
[16:16] <dtchen> I'd add /proc/interrupts
[16:19] <greg-g> toresbe: ^ I'd trust dtchen  :)
[16:19] <mrand> dtchen: So besides wrong kernel and volume set to zero, mind sharing some bug numbers for the most common audio bugs and fixes?  [re: dtchen: ahhh. After a long week, finally inbox zero for new Karmic audio bugs.]
[16:21] <dtchen> mrand: I blogged about this already.
[16:21] <dtchen> drowninginbugs.blogspot, see the latest
[16:21] <mrand> cool.  Thanks!
[16:21] <mrand> funny title, btw.
[16:21] <mrand> even if it is accurate
[16:22] <dtchen> best to keep things lighthearted, I find
[16:24] <mrand> I saw a case of the wrong kernel when someone did a upgrade-manager -d (before Karmic was released).  The upgrade jumped him directly from 8.04 or 8.10 to Karmic, but didn't give him the karmic kernel.
[16:24] <toresbe> ah, no, sorry, I was imprecise. It is greyed out, but the card works perfectly when used with iwconfig/dhclient.
[16:24] <toresbe> Additionally, nm-tool displays the card.
[16:25] <greg-g> toresbe: ahh, nevermind about my idea then :)
[16:25] <dtchen> toresbe: network-manager-applet is the affected src
[16:26] <dtchen> I'm a bit dismayed that the hal/devicekit/udev convergence is leading to a requirement to have perfectly aligned bits from the kernel upward
[18:10] <_Narc_> Hi everyone, sorry to bother again. Anyone here can tell me if a Live CD issue - or suggestion - concerning error messages from the installer should be assigned to the ubiquity package ? Thanks a lot.
[18:13] <micahg> _Narc_: depends on the issue
[18:13] <micahg> ah error messages from the installer
[18:13] <micahg> do you have a pastebin of the errors?
[18:14] <_Narc_> Yes, it's someone from Brainstorm, suggesting that the message "Unable to read block ..." is not very user-friendly...
[18:15] <_Narc_> It's not a really a bug, just an idea, but someone on Brainstorm told him to post a bug report
[18:15] <_Narc_> So I wondered...
[18:19] <dtchen> yes, affecting ubiquity and setting the Importance to Wishlist is fine
[18:19] <micahg> well, we'll set the impotance, you can file the bug :)
[18:19] <micahg> oops
[18:19] <micahg> importance
[18:19] <dtchen> I'm not setting any impotence!
[18:19] <_Narc_> Haha
[18:19] <_Narc_> Good for you then
[18:20] <_Narc_> Okay, I'm affecting it to ubiquity then.
[18:20] <_Narc_> THanks
[18:22] <dtchen> ah, here come the comments: "Why didn't you test any hardware?"
[18:23] <dtchen> I'm at a loss how I'm supposed to test hardware that I don't physically possess. The fact that the user doesn't help test *before* the final release isn't helpful, either. So -- how do we test before we test?
[18:23] <dtchen> I need a time machine, preferably a TARDIS.
[18:23] <micahg> simulator?
[18:24] <micahg> is it possible to have unit tests for audio like you do for code?
[18:24] <dtchen> what sort of simulator?
[18:24] <micahg> idk
[18:24] <micahg> hw simulator
[18:24] <dtchen> sure, that will test the kernel layer and nothing else
[18:24] <dtchen> and of course that presumes that the model is 100% correct
[18:24] <micahg> well, all test suites assume that
[18:24] <dtchen> (which it isn't and can't be, because the drivers themselves aren't current/correct)
[18:25] <dtchen> test suites can deal with their own layer
[18:25] <dtchen> they can't deal with a broken bios, a broken linux, a broken alsa-lib, etc.
[18:25] <micahg> ah
[18:25] <dtchen> i.e., writing a test for hda-emu won't mean a thing for the broken Dell bioses
[18:26] <dtchen> or Toshiba bioses, or ASUS bioses, or Acer bioses, ...
[18:39] <_Narc_> ...so if I get this right, about Live CD bugs, any problem encountered before the installer actually booted is to be filled under the kernel and anything happening after under ubiquity, right ?...
[18:42] <dtchen> well, no; there's also casper.
[18:44] <_Narc_> Oh... It's more subtle then.
[18:44] <_Narc_> I'll read about that, thanks.
[18:55] <Awsoonn_> bug 478572 <- I'm lookign for assistance on where to go next on resoliving this issue.
[18:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 478572 in linux "[Regression] wpc11 pcimca Wireless card cannot see wireless networks" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/478572
[19:02] <dtchen> Awsoonn_: install linux-backports-modules-karmic-generic and reboot
[19:03] <dtchen> Awsoonn_: and, you really want to be using karmic-proposed
[19:03] <dtchen>      2.6.31.15.28 0
[19:03] <dtchen>         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com karmic-proposed/main Packages
[19:03] <dtchen> Ubuntu 2.6.31-15.49-generic
[19:06] <Awsoonn_> dtchen: why do I want to use karmic-proposed ? and do I want to use the backports and proposed or just one or the other?
[19:07] <dtchen> Awsoonn_: for the new kernel. And linux-backports-modules-karmic-generic has nothing to do with the karmic-backports pocket.
[19:07] <dtchen> Awsoonn_: linux-backports-modules-2.6.31-15-generic is in karmic/universe, not karmic-backports/universe
[19:08] <Awsoonn_> dtchen: you are a great help, Thank you so much
[19:09] <dtchen> np
[19:10] <Awsoonn_> do you think that it would be a good idea to encorporate this into Jockey so that it automaticly installs the drivers for this card when detected?
[19:11] <dtchen> that would probably require promoting linux-backports-modules-$(uname -r) into main, which isn't going to happen
[19:11] <dtchen> not that it isn't possible, of course
[19:12] <dtchen> is your symptom resolved after rebooting with linux-backports-modules-karmic-generic installed?
[19:12] <Awsoonn_> fglrx is not in main, but is part of jockey's make-it-happen-action, I'm thinking a similar action might be do-able. I'm installing now
[19:12] <dtchen> fglrx is in restricted
[19:12] <dtchen> it's essentially at the same level as main
[19:13] <dtchen> restricted is maintained; universe isn't
[19:13] <Awsoonn_> I see~
[19:15] <micahg> Awsoonn_: multiverse is the restricted universe
[19:18] <Awsoonn_> by installing the backports I have progress but no cigar
[19:18] <Awsoonn_> I can't see any networks, but I dont get an I/O error
[19:23] <dtchen> and this is using a fully updated karmic-proposed + karmic-updates system?
[19:23] <Awsoonn_> i am updating from proposed now, all updates are applied.
[19:24] <Awsoonn_> I just wanted to leave a note in LP before proceeding. :)
[19:27] <_Narc_> Sorry to interrupt with a noob question but where am I supposed to fill a KernelOops concerning the 2.6.31-14 kernel... since linux-source doesn't have any 2.6.31...and I can't find any linux-headers/image... If I sounds too stupid just ignore me btw.
[19:27] <micahg> _Narc_: kernel bugs go in linux
[19:29] <_Narc_> Yes, sure, but which package ? I'm sorting bugs without package, I'm not the reporter.
[19:29] <Awsoonn_> the package is 'linux'
[19:30] <Awsoonn_> if you're still unsure post the bug number here and we'll take a peek
[19:30] <_Narc_> Oh, okay sorry, thought you were talking about the ubuntu-bug command.
[19:30] <_Narc_> Ok
[19:30] <_Narc_> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/478607
[19:30] <Awsoonn_> :D
[19:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 478607 in ubuntu "Guessing that the bug is encountered when logging out of some websites" [Undecided,New]
[19:31] <_Narc_> I definitely will change the description
[19:34] <Awsoonn_> yea, look at the oopsText.txt
[19:34] <Awsoonn_> you can see that this error was caused by a resume error
[19:35] <_Narc_> pm-utils then.... ?
[19:35] <Awsoonn_> so it can be filed under linux, and I think there is a group you can subsribe that handles these kinds of erros, let me look through teh wiki
[19:36] <JonyBlaze> first check to see if its a duplicate
[19:36] <JonyBlaze> other bugs it looks like have the same problem
[19:37] <Awsoonn_> I actually think I had this bug this morning... :) I failed to look into it very deeply though.
[19:37] <_Narc_> Ok, thanks. I suspected pm-utils because of "power/suspend_test" and "pm-suspend Tainted" but was about to fill it under kernel, to avoid taking bad initiative.
[19:38] <_Narc_> I'll check for dupes, yes
[19:39] <JonyBlaze> specificly https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/417842
[19:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 417842 in linux "WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.31/kernel/power/suspend_test.c:52 suspend_test_finish+0x7c/0x80()" [Low,In progress]
[19:42] <_Narc_> The oopstext is the same but it's not on the same architecture. does it matter ?
[19:44] <JonyBlaze> it might in some cases but not always
[19:45] <_Narc_> is there a way to know ?
[19:45] <Awsoonn_> intuition. :)
[19:45] <_Narc_> to avoid asking each time
[19:45] <_Narc_> Haha
[19:45] <_Narc_> Yeah
[19:46] <_Narc_> I guess I'm not intimate enough  with the kernel yet
[19:46] <Awsoonn_> I'd say that is jsut about right, you learn more and more as you go, in this case I'd say no, and since you've found one duplicate yOu might wnat to round up other dups
[19:47] <Awsoonn_> when did you begin triaging?
[19:47] <_Narc_> Few days ago
[19:47] <_Narc_> Noob really
[19:47] <Awsoonn_> right on, I'm glad to hear that you're sticking to it. :)
[19:47] <_Narc_> But I read.
[19:48] <_Narc_> Yes I do, I really like to, and as you say, it's a very good way to learn and help at the same time
[19:48] <Awsoonn_> We always need triagers :) epsecially ones that ask questions and read the wiki. :)
[19:49] <_Narc_> Ok, I fit in then. But I try not to ask to much questions here because I don't wanna bother gurus like you guys
[19:50] <dtchen> hey cool, someone translated my blog post into Spanish! http://bitelia.com/2009/11/como-arreglar-problemas-de-sonido-en-ubuntu-910
[19:50] <dtchen> well, not really translated, but explained. That's even cooler.
[19:51] <Awsoonn_> I think it's ok to makr them as duplicates in this case. it is the same line of code that is throwing the error afterall
[19:52] <Awsoonn_> woah scrolled up, and didnt' notice, sorry :P
[19:52] <_Narc_> Yes, and the oops looks the same. I'll change the title and mark it as dupe. Thanks for helping
[19:53]  * Awsoonn_ pats dtchen, I wish I knew spanish so I could understand. :P
[19:57] <_Narc_> is it okay to mark them both as duplicates of each other ?
[19:57] <_Narc_> 'Cause #417842 has a huge list of dupes
[19:57] <Awsoonn> only mark the new one as a dupe of the bigger one
[19:58] <Awsoonn> the bug with the more information is the 'original' and the other one is the 'duplicate', and yea, it has a TON. :P
[19:59] <Awsoonn> i read into it a ways down and this error is simply stating that reusme took longer than 5 seconds and it is reporting to LP so that the issue can be investigated more.
[20:00] <_Narc_> It has been or will be investigated obviously with a huge list like this :P
[20:01] <_Narc_> Ya, I still got mixed up with duplicates
[20:01] <Awsoonn> *nods* hence the huge importance of grouping dups, which apport is doing an awesome job of. :)
[20:03] <_Narc_> by grouping you mean looking for some and marking them as such ? or something else I don't know yet ?
[20:08] <_Narc_> Sorry I misread.
[20:13] <Awsoonn> yea, if there is a bug that you think might have a lot of dups, you can look for them and mark them as a dups of one another.
[20:13] <Awsoonn> There is a lot of things that a triager can do :D
[20:14] <Awsoonn> what do you hope to do for Ubuntu someday Narc? (just curious)
[20:15] <_Narc_> Well, I've been a huge fan of computing and open-source philosophy for years now, and I hope one day - when my programming skills will be way better - I could help improving it too.
[20:16] <_Narc_> For now, I decided to do what I can do, translating, triaging, a bit of evangelism too :)
[20:17] <Awsoonn> :) are you a student by chance?
[20:17] <_Narc_> Sort of.
[20:17] <_Narc_> I'm an "autodidact".
[20:17] <dtchen> Awsoonn: meaning "work for" Canonical?
[20:17] <_Narc_> Haha
[20:18] <dtchen> you can't "work for" Ubuntu, which is just a distribution :-)
[20:18] <Awsoonn> dtchen: nope, I just ment in a community senece
[20:19] <Awsoonn> dtchen, I finished installing form proposed and updates and I have interesting results....
[20:20] <dtchen> I think he's already "working for" Ubuntu in that sense :-)
[20:20] <Awsoonn> oh indeed, no doubt, :D I was just wondering the future goals. He seems similar to myself
[20:21] <Awsoonn> I got started Triaging to learn the software archetecture, then translating to give in a new way and I run a LUG here in my town. When I have time I put together patches for simple things.
[20:22] <dtchen> excellent
[20:22] <Awsoonn> I drank the kool-aid :P
[20:22] <_Narc_> Hahaha
[20:23] <Awsoonn> how 'bout you dtchen? are you a Connonicl employee?
[20:23] <Awsoonn> I think I remember a Chen that works on audio for Ubuntu. I been worndering if that is you.
[20:24] <dtchen> I am not an employee, no.
[20:24] <maco> yes thats him but he doesnt work for canonical
[20:25] <Awsoonn> I see. :)
[20:27] <_Narc_> The job of my dreams. * grins *
[20:35] <_Narc_> One last before going, just to see if I'm learning. What about bug #478547 ? I'd file it under "ubiquity" and not linux since booting live cd is ok but not intalling... What do you think ?
[20:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 478547 in ubuntu "ubuntu 9.10 won't install on dell dimension e520" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/478547
[20:38] <dtchen> _Narc_: nah, that's a linux bug.
[20:38] <_Narc_> damn
[20:38] <dtchen> it may also have an X driver component, but I haven't looked further
[20:41] <_Narc_> I misread the wiki then. I thought it was a linux bug when booting live cd was a problem.
[20:41] <_Narc_> Thanks
[20:42] <dtchen> well, this one doesn't follow the normal pattern
[20:45] <_Narc_> I'm always unwillingly good at picking special/odd cases as examples.
[20:46] <dtchen> that's okay
[21:15] <nigel_nb> is bug 295673 still an issue with karmic or do we have a fix?
[21:15] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 295673 in f-spot "Crashes upon attaching Kodak Easy Share v1003" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295673
[21:15] <nigel_nb> #295673
[22:35] <_Narc_> Someone can tell me what to do of hardware support requests filled as bugs - except helping or redirecting to the forums ? Invalid ? Thanks a lot
[22:36] <maco> if its not supported...bug against linux
[22:36] <maco> if its 'Help!' convert to question
[22:37] <_Narc_> Well, it's both in this case, I checked and its not supported but the user is asking support and help, "new to linux" etc
[22:38] <_Narc_> But thanks, I didn't know unsupported had to be considered bugs.
[22:40] <maco> yeah.. i mean, if theres no driver or the driver doesnt work...thats a bug
[22:40] <maco> the driver needs to be written
[22:40] <maco> or fixed
[22:42] <_Narc_> Ok. Logical, when you see it that way.
[23:13] <caolin> If a user files a bug and then later discovers that there was a usage problem rather than a bug, should the bug be simply be marked "invalid" or should it be turned into a question and marked as answered?