[00:05] <amichair> apachelogger: ping
[00:35] <amichair> I think I've made progress with Bug #102792, but being a probabilistic bug, I need a little sanity check - would someone like to run a little test? just a couple lines of modified code...
[01:19] <claydoh> JontheEchidna ScottK, or anyone else: yes/no/maybe on kde4.3.3 in jaunty? inquiring forum members want to know :)
[01:21] <JontheEchidna> Probably, no. Which is not to say that we would stop anybody from doing it if they wanted to (and/or need guidance)
[01:25] <claydoh> JontheEchidna: muchas gracias
[01:27] <claydoh> was that a hint? :)
[01:30]  * claydoh should try more packging, but simply packaging kmymoney was a major brain drain for me
[01:30] <JontheEchidna> well, not for you, but for forum goers.
[01:31] <claydoh> :)
[01:31] <claydoh> timelord is spurning some good converstaions there
[01:31] <JontheEchidna> amichair: I can test
[01:33] <neverendingo> claydoh: you are the forum maintainer?
[01:43] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: help :P Should "docs" go to usr/share/doc/kde/HTML or to kde4/HTML ? in our base-workspace package they go to kde, but in Debian they go to kde4/HTML
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> kde/HTML
[01:44] <Lex79> ok thanks, base-workspace is not funny to merge :(
[01:44] <JontheEchidna> heh, yeah. that's a beast
[03:06] <maco> jjesse: psst if you use kmail, it can remind you that you forgot your attachment
[03:16] <jjesse> maco: d'oh
[03:16] <jjesse> haha sorry bout that
[03:33] <maco> jjesse: so ... about that attachment? resend
[03:33] <maco> ?
[03:40] <jjesse> oh sorry will do, heading to bed will resend
[03:58] <maco> hehe ok good night
[09:24] <amichair> JontheEchidna: ok, let me know when you're here
[09:33] <markey> aargs
[09:33] <markey> ShowCock is so freaking buggy, can we please get an update?
[09:33] <markey> it screws up all the time
[09:33] <markey> the version 0.6.6
[09:33] <markey> (ShowCock = Choqok, obviously)
[09:33] <markey> anyone got a PPA for 1.0?
[10:02] <glatzor__> hello Riddell
[10:02] <glatzor__> Riddell, when will PolicyKit-1 support land in KDE?
[10:15] <tsimpson> markey: the PPA for Alpha 2 is on their download page
[10:15] <tsimpson> https://launchpad.net/~neversfelde/+archive/experimental
[10:18] <ghostcube> ehlo humans :)
[10:25] <ghostcube> peoples can i kick the printer applet ?
[10:26] <ghostcube> it drives me nuts
[10:26] <ghostcube> :)
[10:27] <jussio1> ghostcube: patches welcome! :D
[10:28] <ghostcube> jussio1: hehe i know but i cant code so well to patch it i think so
[10:28] <ghostcube> :)
[10:30] <ghostcube> btw thx for the ppa with libxine + jack support :)
[10:32] <Riddell> ghostcube: what's wrong with it?
[10:32] <ghostcube> eh ?
[10:32] <Riddell> glatzor__: I don't know, I'll ask
[10:32] <ghostcube> Riddell: thwe printer applet ?
[10:32] <Riddell> yes
[10:32] <ghostcube> it just keeps crashing all the time on startup and on shutdown
[10:33] <ghostcube> no clean shutdown possible always error messages from crash handler
[10:35] <Riddell> mm, that's not good
[10:35] <ghostcube> i know ;)
[10:35] <Riddell> ghostcube: do you get a backtrace?  is it a python issue or a segfault issue?
[10:35] <ghostcube> but i need to install the debug packages to get an working bt
[10:35] <ghostcube> you typed faster
[10:35] <ghostcube> heh
[10:36] <Riddell> so you don't get a python backtrace?
[10:36] <ghostcube> will do this evening if i got the time too
[10:36] <ghostcube> Riddell: no it says bt not useful
[10:36] <ghostcube> so i think i need the dbg packages
[10:37] <Riddell> hum, so it's some issue in the bindins
[10:37] <ghostcube> seems so yes
[10:37] <ghostcube> maybe anything broke through th jaunty to karmic update ?
[10:38] <Riddell> it should be fine so long as all the packages are up to date
[10:39] <ghostcube> sure all updated
[10:40] <ghostcube> and all repos opened again to get all in
[10:40] <ghostcube> i will check whats the problem
[10:55] <apachelogger> amichair: pong
[10:55] <amichair> apachelogger: mornin :-)
[10:55] <apachelogger> ahoy
[10:55] <amichair> amichair: did u get a chance to look at the rest of the fixes?
[10:56] <amichair> apachelogger: : did u get a chance to look at the rest of the fixes?
[10:57] <apachelogger> unless there are new ones the other stuff should be goods
[10:57] <apachelogger> -s
[10:58] <apachelogger> amichair: did you resolve the issues I highlighted?
[10:59] <amichair> apachelogger: I copied the ppa code exactly from gtk in DialogAdd
[11:00] <amichair> apachelogger: I didn't convert to KDialog, coz all the other dialogs need conversion too, so that would best be done together in a separate fix rather than create inconsistency
[11:01] <amichair> apachelogger: (and is unrelated to to DialogAdd functionality itself)
[11:02] <apachelogger> well, I could cherry pick revisions :P
[11:02] <apachelogger> anyhow, if you think it is ready Ill take another look when I get to it
[11:02] <amichair> apachelogger: and of course, just skip the revision with the mime types :-)
[11:06] <amichair> apachelogger: I think that was it, just skip the mime types rev and include the last one with the ppa fix. and some didn't have changelog (should add according to cherrypick I guess)
[11:07] <amichair> apachelogger: also I think I've made progress with Bug #102792, but it's a sneaky one so if u have time to discuss it let me know
[11:16] <amichair> that is, I have a fix, but i can't point at the actual bug in QT yet, only it's neighborhood
[11:56] <Riddell> glatzor__: 33% done but a must have for fedora's next release so we should be able to assume it'll be done https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_PolicyKitOneQt
[11:56] <Riddell> http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/polkit-qt-1/ and http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/PolicyKit-kde/ is the code
[11:57] <Riddell> policy kit always seems to hideously complex
[11:59] <Riddell> ryanakca: looking at cmake now
[11:59] <ryanakca> Riddell: thanks
[12:02] <Riddell> ryanakca: do you know what libxmlrpc-core-c3-dev is needed for?
[12:03] <Riddell> oh it's just our version of libxmlrpc-c3-dev
[12:03] <apachelogger> amichair: just drop a mail to the list
[12:04] <Riddell> ryanakca: looks like libxmlrpc-c3-dev is in main now so we can just follow debian and build-dep on that
[12:05] <Riddell> ryanakca: I think cmake-gui dummy package isn't needed since debian uses Provides: cmake-gui on cmake-qt-gui
[12:06] <Riddell> ryanakca: also "keep maintainer mangling" doesn't need to be specified in the changelog, we know it has to be done for every package
[12:10] <Riddell> ryanakca: uploading!
[12:25] <ryanakca> Riddell: great, thanks
[12:51] <Riddell> "john do u how to get thur level 133 onksokoban microban easy"  this guy is persistent
[12:54] <Tm_T> Riddell: that's what?
[12:55] <amichair> Riddell: sounds like a bomb trigger code or something :-)
[12:58] <Riddell> Tm_T: someone who keeps e-mailing me
[13:23] <sebas> your ksobokan buddy!
[13:27] <JontheEchidna> amichair: hi
[13:27] <amichair> JontheEchidna: hola!
[13:28] <amichair> JontheEchidna: this very second I posted my findings the bug report, care to take a look?
[13:28] <JontheEchidna> sure
[13:28] <amichair> bug #102792
[13:30] <amichair> it seems to have a whole lot of duplicates and subscribers... why are many of the duplicate reports private? wish I could see if they have some useful info
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> Bugs reported semi-automatically via apport are set to private as a "safer rather than sorry" method to prevent sensitive data from showing up in the stacktrace
[13:32] <amichair> JontheEchidna: as in security holes?
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> It rarely happens though, so that's just triagers not bothering to unprivate them
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> amichair: The core dump may contain private info such as passwords the user was using at the time, etc
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> since it could be part of the stack at the time of the crash
[13:33] <amichair> JontheEchidna: oh right. ok then, I approve :-)
[13:34] <JontheEchidna> apport bugs usually never have good info, I've found. People who know how to do good bug reports usually do not use apport because they hate it :P
[13:35] <JontheEchidna> anyways, on to testing that fix...
[13:35] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I wonder if someone checked the statistics, how many apport reports have been closed and how quick relative to thers
[13:35] <amichair> statistics rock!
[13:38] <JontheEchidna> So replace the clear() in show_isv_sources with your snippet?
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> that... works!
[13:39] <amichair> yep, the 1 line with the 2 lines
[13:39] <amichair> so u've managed to recreate it, I assume?
[13:40] <amichair> JontheEchidna: do it a bunch of time - I'm aiming for statistical significance :-)
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> oh, I've been able to recreate this for a long while. Any time I check a checkbox, usually
[13:41] <JontheEchidna> It has not crashed 4/4 times whereas it used to crash 1/1 times
[13:41] <Tm_T> Riddell: sounds fun
[13:42] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I think a sample space of 1000 experiments should suffice. keep going!
[13:42] <amichair> :-P
[13:42] <JontheEchidna> :P
[13:45] <amichair> I'm gonna do some dishes, clean out some real bugs :-)
[13:45] <amichair> bbs
[13:54] <rgreening> sebas: ping
[13:57] <sebas> rgreening: pong
[13:57] <rgreening> hey sebas
[13:57] <sebas> hey roddie :)
[13:57] <rgreening> :)
[13:58] <rgreening> akonadi with google contacts.. any hints? The sync seems to lose info in either direction via kmail to google or google to kmail. I onle get 1 tel #, my name and 1 email...
[13:58] <rgreening> sebas: ^
[13:59] <sebas> rgreening: don't know, you can ask on #akonadi
[13:59] <sebas> many of my nice colleagues there to help :)
[13:59] <rgreening> sebas: cool. figured you might have an idea :)
[13:59] <rgreening> sebas: hows everything else?
[14:00] <sebas> pretty good
[14:00] <rgreening> cool
[14:00] <sebas> on networkmanager again
[14:00] <rgreening> heh
[14:00] <sebas> and even then it's still pretty good
[14:00] <rgreening> its working pretty solid for me
[14:00] <sebas> we've picked up on the plasmoid again
[14:00] <sebas> hopefully part of 4.4
[14:02] <amichair> JontheEchidna: well?
[14:02] <JontheEchidna> amichair: I've tried about 15 times with success each, followed by now 6 times without the patch for a crash
[14:03] <amichair> JontheEchidna: that's a good start
[14:03] <amichair> JontheEchidna: btw do u have any particular job here? what stuff do u work on?
[14:04] <JontheEchidna> oh, I do several things here and there... bug triage, packaging, coding
[14:05] <ghostcube_> ok you guys wanna lough
[14:05] <ghostcube_> ?
[14:06] <ghostcube> http://nancib.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/like-getdeb-now-you-can-get-their-packages-from-a-repo/?replytocom=2878#respond
[14:06] <ghostcube> second comment
[14:06] <ghostcube> i never read anything more unneeded
[14:08] <ghostcube> changing end of files tu .ubu
[14:08] <JontheEchidna> lol
[14:08] <ghostcube> i think some guys didnt get the intention of the deb packages
[14:08] <ghostcube> :D
[14:12] <amichair> JontheEchidna: do u have any idea what all the cdrom_sources code is about? is there a separate cdrom tree I'm missing?
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> cdroms show up in the same view as the other sources. I don't know if it's a separate tree
[14:16] <amichair> JontheEchidna: so what about the crashbug? any more tests we need? someone else to look into it? should I prepare the fix?
[14:16]  * Riddell moves 4.3.3 into kubuntu-ppa updates, where it should have gone in the first place
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> amichair: I'd say you could go and commit a fix in your branch. It looks fixed to me (tm)
[14:17] <amichair> JontheEchidna: oki
[14:19] <amichair> man, so much dup code here
[14:20] <JontheEchidna> I must say that a lot of our tools are not as well-maintained as they could be
[14:20] <apachelogger> hm
[14:21] <apachelogger> ghostcube: that was a quick laugh alright :D
[14:21] <ghostcube> apachelogger: yeah short joke
[14:21] <ghostcube> but it was funny
[14:21] <ghostcube> :D
[14:21] <Riddell> also moving qt 4.6 beta into experimental PPA
[14:21] <ghostcube> oi
[14:21] <ghostcube> cool
[14:21] <apachelogger> windows 7 shouldnt use exe, some of them exe files that worked perfectly fine on my windows 95, dont do anymoar!
[14:22] <apachelogger> just noticed that the other day
[14:22] <ghostcube> apachelogger: rofl
[14:22] <apachelogger> sad really :(
[14:22] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: maintained?
[14:22] <NCommander> ScottK, Riddell, ping. I think my patches to python-qt3 finally will get KDE moving to testing for easy merging/syncing
[14:22] <NCommander> ^- apachelogger
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: ok, not really maintained at all
[14:22] <apachelogger> that also triggered a quick laugh
[14:22] <Riddell> neversfelde: what's the status of koffice2? if it's in experimental that means there's more to do?
[14:22]  * apachelogger got too much coffee again
[14:22] <jjesse> theres such a thing as too much coffee?
[14:22] <apachelogger> NCommander: neato
[14:22]  * ghostcube too 5 cans till now
[14:23] <NCommander> jjesse, unfortunately
[14:23] <ghostcube> yeah i have .05 liters can for coffee
[14:23] <ghostcube> 0.5
[14:23] <amichair> ghostcube: u get coffee in cans?
[14:23] <ghostcube> :)
[14:23] <apachelogger> all futuristic
[14:23] <Riddell> NCommander: what's the problem currently?
[14:23] <ghostcube> senseo 5  pads
[14:24]  * apachelogger notes that his flatmate is addicited to coffee in cans
[14:24] <ghostcube> das is ne thermoskanne
[14:24] <apachelogger> only the canned ones though
[14:24]  * ScottK gets coffee in cans, but it needs to be brewed before he can drink it.
[14:24] <NCommander> Riddell, sip4/python-qt4 upgrades broke python-qt3
[14:25] <NCommander> I unofficially adopted that package, and hit it with the cluebat, which should allow sip4 to migrate, and thus unblock part of python-qt4
[14:25] <NCommander> (I'm not sure if python-qt4 will move quite yet, some of its rdepends might hold it in place)
[14:25]  * apachelogger hands out cookies
[14:26] <ScottK> Caffeinated?
[14:26] <NCommander> Once this current mess is sorted, I'm adding a dh_sip/dh_python-qt4, etc to make sure we properly track ABI breaks in Debian to help sort this
[14:26] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I need a free cookies sign!
[14:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: of course :)
[14:26] <ghostcube> thc inated wouldnt be so helpful ScottK :D
[14:27] <ghostcube> boah iam typing to much not needed things today and getting nothing done here at office
[14:27] <ghostcube> o.o
[14:27] <amichair> apachelogger: here's one for u: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BovQyphS8kA
[14:27] <apachelogger> while we are at not doing things
[14:27] <apachelogger> my super important todo currently holds 12 items of which 4 are due tomorrow
[14:27] <apachelogger> yet I am not motivated at all
[14:27] <apachelogger> that could turn out bad
[14:28]  * ghostcube isnt motivated at all doing balance sheet here for 2008 
[14:28] <ghostcube> -_-
[14:28] <apachelogger> C is for getting started with C++ :P
[14:28] <ghostcube> if you tell this an c coder he kills you
[14:28] <apachelogger> ghostcube: that is so yesterday anyway
[14:29] <apachelogger> oh, actually more like last year's
[14:29] <ghostcube> :D
[14:29] <apachelogger> srsly, I am attending a C course for no other reason than beig able to attend a C++ course next semester :P
[14:30] <ScottK> Have to walk before you can run.
[14:30] <ghostcube> isnt it so you can learn c++ without c i always thought this
[14:31] <apachelogger> amichair: cookie pwns doughnut :D
[14:31] <ghostcube> its harder but shouldnt be more complicated
[14:31]  * ghostcube thinks about going to subways chicken fajity is calling
[14:32] <apachelogger> well, there are other reasons than c++ being based on c :P
[14:32] <ghostcube> :)
[14:33]  * Sput thinks people are better off learning C++ without prior knowledge of C
[14:33] <Sput> because otherwise, first thing you have to do is unlearning Cisms anyway
[14:33] <ghostcube> Sput: i thought the same
[14:33] <Sput> that, or you end up like the average MS programmer.
[14:33] <Sput> (and API designer)
[14:34] <apachelogger> poor api designers :(
[14:34] <ghostcube> c++ declares and iterates all stuff different or
[14:34]  * txwikinger thinks people are better learning any proper language without prior knowledge of any form of BASIC in particular VBA
[14:34] <ghostcube> :D
[14:34] <apachelogger> VBA pwns all them over fancy languages
[14:34] <apachelogger> other even
[14:34] <apachelogger> there ... too much coffeee
[14:34] <ghostcube> i need another one oo
[14:34] <txwikinger> koffein addict!
[14:35] <ghostcube> i need coffein to get thc out of the way
[14:35] <ghostcube> :D
[14:35]  * amichair wants to see Scala gain pace... finally a new language done right!
[14:36]  * apachelogger grabs pen and starts drawing uml diagrams on the windows due to lack of whiteboard
[14:36] <ghostcube> maybe we should all bring to one speach  c-buntu
[14:36] <ghostcube> :)
[14:37] <apachelogger> kbasic!
[14:37] <ghostcube> yeah
[14:38] <apachelogger> amichair: how often people have been told that
[14:38] <apachelogger> all false prophets, err prophetic languages
[14:38] <ghostcube> isnt c or c++ still one of the fastest languages to code in
[14:38] <ghostcube> cause its no interpreter
[14:38] <ghostcube> :)
[14:39] <apachelogger> my mother would be faster at reading C and executing it than any given interpreter language could do the job :P
[14:39] <amichair> ghostcube: not really, the big ones have jit compilers which are about the same (sometimes better, sometimes worse) than compiled C/C++
[14:39] <ghostcube> hmm ok
[14:40] <ghostcube> i only know that python had reverted to c++ cause the python modules inside itself was to slow
[14:40] <ghostcube> :D
[14:40] <ghostcube> has been *
[14:40] <ScottK> ghostcube: I think Python is C, not C++
[14:40] <ghostcube> ups sorry
[14:41] <amichair> ghostcube: Jython runs on the JVM, so it probably inherits a bunch of the quickiness
[14:41] <ScottK> And that's a standard Python development paradigm.  Develop in Python and then optimize bottlenecks into C.
[14:41] <ghostcube> ScottK: ah ok havent known this
[14:41] <apachelogger> which then reads: develop in c
[14:41]  * ScottK thought Java and slow were synonyms.
[14:41] <MelisU> I like the Vala approach, I such a language for Qt would be cool. Without a lot of Cpp boilerplate and cruft.
[14:41] <apachelogger> ScottK: haha, dont get me started on java :D
[14:41] <amichair> ScottK: that's true, circa 1995 :-)
[14:42] <ghostcube> i have tried to not use java
[14:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: Premature optimization is the root of all evil.
[14:42] <ghostcube> so i used python cause i didnt wanted to start the troll
[14:42] <ScottK> amichair: For me it seems true each time I use a Java app.
[14:42] <apachelogger> no optimization is the root of apachelogger starting a discussion about how inefficient software uses the darn resources these days
[14:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: Agreed.
[14:42] <ghostcube> ok maybe we all should now take us an g5 macosx 10.6 and try java apps
[14:43] <ghostcube> then we will know why java and slow are calle the same
[14:43] <ghostcube> :)
[14:43] <apachelogger> ah bad example
[14:43] <apachelogger> everyone knows that java only works on windows
[14:43] <ghostcube> hehe
[14:44] <ghostcube> the one i hate most at the moment is .net
[14:44] <apachelogger> vb.net?
[14:44] <apachelogger> or asp.net?
[14:44] <apachelogger> or whatever they call them
[14:44] <ghostcube> i think so my programm here for tax is made in .net 3.5
[14:44] <ghostcube> :|
[14:45] <apachelogger> hm, right
[14:45] <ghostcube> i asked if they port it to mono
[14:45] <ghostcube> and they told me nah no way
[14:45] <ghostcube> :D
[14:45] <apachelogger> ScottK: I must ask you to revoke the statement about premature optimization
[14:45] <apachelogger> vb.net is the root of all evil
[14:45] <ghostcube> yeah
[14:45] <ghostcube> fucll ack
[14:45] <ghostcube> *-c
[14:45] <apachelogger> way too easy to create crappy code
[14:45] <apachelogger> kinda like python
[14:45] <apachelogger> just worse
[14:46] <ghostcube> very fast in coding inconsitent apps
[14:46] <ghostcube> i asked ADDISON if they dont do QA cause in kubuntu the QA is much better and no need to pay for
[14:46] <ghostcube> a day later the main programmer called me if i want to do beta testing
[14:46] <ghostcube> :D
[14:46] <apachelogger> lulz
[14:47] <apachelogger> poor programmer probably has to spend all his day hunting down issues
[14:47] <apachelogger> like I have to do with python :P
[14:47] <ScottK> Actually despite the slowness, I like the cross-platformness of Java.  I can participate in stuff using http://www.webex.com/ even though I'm pretty sure they don't know how to spell Linux.
[14:47] <apachelogger> I am seeing similarities here
[14:47] <ghostcube> yeah but they had an nice c++ app aöll wortking fine till office 2007 cames out
[14:47] <ScottK> ghostcube: What's Addison?
[14:48] <ghostcube> ScottK: ehm software for Taxation belance sheets and so on
[14:48] <ghostcube> tex cunsultant things
[14:48] <ScottK> Ah.  I see
[14:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: the cross platformness ends when you starts using non-standard stuff or stuff that is only part of suns java
[14:48] <amichair> http://langpop.com/
[14:48] <ScottK> apachelogger: Certainly.  All I know is it worked.
[14:49] <ghostcube> ScottK: http://www.addison.de/
[14:49] <txwikinger> I sometimes don't get it.. they start gnome because they have issues with the qt licences.. and then they do mono
[14:49] <ghostcube> damn only german
[14:49] <ScottK> I recall reading that Google typically advertises for both Java and Python experience when they hire Java coders because their experience is people that know Python are better programmers.
[14:49] <amichair> if I hadn't done most of my coding in java, I'd never be able to migrate to kubuntu... I'd be locked in to MSVC or .NET
[14:49]  * txwikinger can read German ;)
[14:50] <ghostcube> txwikinger: ;)
[14:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: the supervisor of my "project efficiency" project used to use a java based tool for recording his lectures ... 5 linux users failed to make it work on any recent distro
[14:50] <ghostcube> i think most of you know DATEV maybe
[14:50] <apachelogger> depends on like 5 external modules
[14:50] <ghostcube> ADDISON is the better opposite
[14:50] <apachelogger> amongst them is JMF
[14:50] <ScottK> apachelogger: I believe you.
[14:50] <apachelogger> an JMF is an abomination of live
[14:51] <txwikinger> DATEV is in banking api?
[14:51] <txwikinger> as
[14:51] <amichair> apachelogger: bad code can be written in any language. hell, there's a whole lot of code out there that doesn't work on *any* platform :-)
[14:51] <ghostcube> txwikinger: yeah
[14:51]  * apachelogger needs to stop writing typos and get some work down
[14:51]  * txwikinger once develop something for DATEV
[14:51] <txwikinger> +ed
[14:51] <ghostcube> could be yes :) the still do c c++ java and mysql as database
[14:51] <apachelogger> amichair: the code is actually quite good, the famework sucks in that particular example
[14:52] <ghostcube> txwikinger: addison uses kerberos and .net
[14:52] <ghostcube> brech
[14:52] <ghostcube> its good but so little not needed bugs driving you crazy cause of the .net shi
[14:52] <ghostcube> workflow is not good
[14:56] <Riddell> I wonder if qt3 can go into universe in lucid http://paste.ubuntu.com/314143/
[14:57] <Riddell> scribus, qcad and koffice seem to be necessary rdepends and they could be dropped or upgraded to qt 4
[14:57] <Riddell> which would leave lsb-desktop
[14:57] <JontheEchidna> I wonder if the scribus team thinks the version in scribus-ng is suitable for mainstream use yet
[14:59] <JontheEchidna> according to their website, yes!
[15:00] <Riddell> I wonder why qcad is in main at all
[15:01] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: in bug 479142 the user obviously upgraded his lust Oo
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> So then if we convince Debian to upgrade scribus 5o 1.3.5 and move koffice -> kde4 we'd be all set
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> s/5o/to
[15:02] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: except that qt 3 is still part of lsb and I presume ubuntu wants lsb in main
[15:02] <JontheEchidna> oh, hmm
[15:02] <apachelogger> SCRIBUS CAN NOT GO QT 4
[15:02] <apachelogger> upstream will beat us up, and do awful things
[15:03] <Sput> ah, you mean like javaaargh
[15:03] <apachelogger> also, scribus-ng is not anywhere as stable as stable, which is really why it is not stable yet
[15:03] <apachelogger> so stop even thinking about that
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> 1.3.5.1 is now advertised as their stable release on their website
[15:03] <Sput> and I wasn't srolled down :(
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> oh, nevermind
[15:03] <apachelogger> Sput: so it seems :P
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> shoot me
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> anyways, no need to keep it in main, right?
[15:04] <apachelogger> Oo
[15:04] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: what makes you think that?
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> oh, edubuntu needs it
[15:04] <micmord> JontheEchidna: lust==last  He speak english like me :-)
[15:05] <JontheEchidna> oh, makes sense
[15:06] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: we could pull a mandravia and remove qt3 entirely :P [/sarcasm]
[15:06] <JontheEchidna> you know if we even discussed doing that we'd be branded the worst of linux distros for forever
[15:06] <apachelogger> we could do a lotta things :P
[15:07] <Riddell> lsb seems to be dead, it's been in beta since 2006 as far as I can tell
[15:10] <apachelogger> sounds like poke the upstream
[15:10] <apachelogger> like poke the mole :D
[15:12] <Sput> Gentoo is just in the process of pruning KDE3 and Qt3 from the official repository :) we'll keep it in a user-maintained "PPA" until users lose interest
[15:12] <Sput> worst thing are open security bugs in 3.5.10 that nobody seems to be interested in fixing anymore...
[15:13]  * ScottK thinks ours are fixed.
[15:13] <Sput> yeah, we don't have the manpower :/
[15:13] <Sput> if upstream isn't interested anymore, we're getting rid of the software
[15:14] <Sput> masked two days ago, imagine what s***storm that caused :)
[15:14] <ScottK> Our manpower for that was Riddell.
[15:14] <Sput> well, he seems to have a clone army
[15:16]  * Sput fondly remembers the time when Gentoo deprecated xmms
[15:16] <Sput> users can be so conservative :)
[15:17] <amichair> what's the nicest py way of replacing a list's contents with another list's contents?
[15:19] <Riddell> lists = newcontents
[15:19] <ScottK> amichair: What's wrong with listfoo = listbar?
[15:19] <amichair> that replaces the list, not it's contents
[15:19] <ScottK> OK, what's the difference?
[15:20] <amichair> i.e. a list passed to a method, I want to fill it up. in the former, the local reference is replaced, and the caller doesn't see it. in the latter, the original instance is updated. I think...
[15:23] <amichair> does that make sense?
[15:25] <amichair> there is a difference between overwriting the reference and overwriting the value
[15:36] <amichair> ScottK: my q is how to do it py?
[15:37] <amichair> in py
[15:37] <ScottK> I'm not sure there's a difference in this case, but there may be.  I'd need to look some stuff up.
[15:37] <ScottK> Did you already try assignment and it didn't work?
[15:38] <amichair> yep
[15:38] <apachelogger> amichair: you mean like updating the content?
[15:38] <amichair> apachelogger: yep
[15:38] <apachelogger> e.g. pointer fun
[15:38] <apachelogger> amichair: you don't want to do that in python ... creates overhead (at least codewise) http://python.org/doc/2.5.2/lib/ctypes-pointers.html
[15:39] <amichair> apachelogger: nono, don't want anything like that
[15:40] <amichair> I think the answer is simpler than it sounds, I just don't know it
[15:40] <amichair> if a method gets a list, it can append to it
[15:40] <\sh> amichair, because it makes a copy of the list
[15:40] <amichair> how, equivalently, can it erase its contents and put in something else, which happens to be all the elements of a different list?
[15:40] <apachelogger> yeah, the difference between call by value and call by reference
[15:41] <apachelogger> I dont think latter is considered good pratcise in python
[15:41] <apachelogger> might be wrong though
[15:41] <apachelogger> anyhow
[15:41] <apachelogger> ->dinner
[15:41] <amichair> apachelogger: so python discourages utility methods, or any methods, that modify lists?? that doesn't sound reasonable
[15:42] <amichair> maybe just a simple combination of clear() and appendAll() (which don't exist)?
[15:42] <ScottK> amichair: Have a look at help(list) in a Python shell
[15:42] <\sh> amichair, http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-November/018828.html
[15:43] <\sh> amichair, last part is about lists
[15:45] <amichair> \sh: thanks, but I still can't find how to empty a list or replace its contents, other than a loop which pops elements one by one and then adds new ones one by one... ugly and inefficient.
[15:45] <amichair> anyway, I'll keep looking...
[15:45] <\sh> if you want the content of list A in list B, just B=A .. if you need only a couple of values from list A replace with values of list B, loop A and replace B[index A] or whatevetr
[15:46] <\sh> or of you want the content of list A appended to list B you need to loop as well and B.append(A[index])
[15:46] <amichair> \sh: that was the original suggestion, but it appears that B=A assigns the reference, not the value
[15:47] <amichair> which means someone else holding the same original reference will not see the change
[15:48] <\sh> amichair, oh well...C talking: char *a = "hello"; char *b; b=a ; printf("%c",b[1]); should be "e"...hopefully I'm correct
[15:50] <amichair> \sh: that looks correct, but the problem is how to pass 'a' to a method, and have the method change "hello" to "yello", and have the pointer outside the method see the change (in python)
[15:51] <\sh> amichair, the last part of that mail I posted explains what happens.
[15:51] <\sh> amichair, lists are mutable object, and can be changed inside a method, and the change is visible to the everybody else
[15:52] <amichair> \sh: it's close, but shows only access to individual elements. so it can be done, but with ugly and inefficient loops :-(
[15:53] <amichair> I'd expect clearing a list instance to be really basic, as it is in other languages
[15:53] <amichair> but apparently python is wierd :-)
[15:53] <\sh> amichair, http://paste.ubuntu.com/314179/ <- this is what the mail said
[15:56] <amichair> \sh: I don't see this in the link above. but still it modifies only one element
[15:56] <\sh> empting a list is just as simple: del listA[:] <- which deletes the elements from 0 to end
[15:56] <amichair> \sh: ah! that's getting closer
[15:57] <amichair> how strange that it's not a list method!
[15:57] <amichair> so I can do that, and then maybe append an entire other list, or use slicing (if i understood correctly)
[15:58] <amichair> \sh: that's a tad ugly, but should work well. thanks!
[15:59] <\sh> amichair, well...check this out: http://paste.ubuntu.com/314180/ <-
[16:01] <\sh> then you can see the diff between call by ref and call by value ;) x=5 \n y=6 \n listB=[x,y]  \n del x \n listB still has [5,6] , but a(listB) where a deletes element 1 from list (del listA[1]) gives print listB ==> [5] only one element left
[16:02] <amichair> yep, del should do the job (clear the value on the original reference)
[16:05] <\sh> amichair, yes
[16:05] <amichair> \sh: thanks
[16:06] <\sh> amichair, you need to see the differences between "immutable" and "mutable" python types
[16:07] <\sh> amichair, and you need to be careful: del listB e.g removes the complete object from the python view ;) listB doesn't exists anymore, therefore you can't access the values anymore, but somehow they are still in your memory, and will be GBed in time ;) the fun part starts if you push objects into the list ;)
[16:07] <\sh> s/GB/GC/
[16:08] <apachelogger> del is fun indeed :)
[16:08] <amichair> \sh: sure, I intended to use del listA[:], which does what we think it does :-)
[16:08]  * apachelogger was puzzled by how python does not want to do what apachelogger told it to :P
[16:09] <amichair> lol
[16:09] <amichair> 4 days with python, and I can tell that's it's general attitude :-)
[16:11] <apachelogger> yup
[16:12]  * apachelogger never liked snakes anyway
[16:12] <amichair> apachelogger: what do u like? other than coffee?
[16:12] <\sh> amichair, http://paste.ubuntu.com/314190/ <- this is really fun ;)
[16:12] <apachelogger> http://fractalbox.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/python_1.jpg
[16:13] <apachelogger> I dont like that
[16:13] <amichair> heh, funny how that came out... from a java dev
[16:13] <apachelogger> fatnugly beast
[16:13]  * ghostcube loves snakes
[16:13] <amichair> (I was actually referring to coffee :-) )
[16:13] <apachelogger> oh dear amichair got \sh started on a pycoderun
[16:14] <apachelogger> oh my
[16:14]  * apachelogger hides before he gets eaten by one of them python monsters
[16:15]  * amichair stares at the ceiling as he slowly backs away towards the door, ready for a sprint
[16:21] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IckkZVwShd4
[16:21] <apachelogger> python vs gator
[16:23] <amichair> holy crap
[16:23] <amichair> one last bugfix, and I ain't touching python no more
[16:23] <neversfelde> Riddell: no, it is in staging and upgrades from the official koffice and koffice-kde4 are working fine for me and others. Unfortunately I cannot test upgrades from beta2 because the packages got somehow deleted.
[16:24] <Riddell> neversfelde: so I should test it and move it to beta backports if it works and remove the copy from experimental
[16:25] <neversfelde> Riddell: yes, do you have beta2 installed?
[16:25] <apachelogger> lol
[16:25] <apachelogger> amichair: if you are lucky enough if it will explode :D
[16:27] <amichair> apachelogger: I think that's what caused that crash bug
[16:27] <amichair> apachelogger: it must have tried to eat too many sources.lists
[16:28] <apachelogger> hah, greedy thing
[16:28] <Riddell> neversfelde: no, we'll just have to hope
[16:28]  * apachelogger recommends watching "Python swallows Deer" on youtube for more information about advanced python programming :P
[16:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: hope?
[16:29]  * apachelogger does not consider hope good enough
[16:29] <Riddell> apachelogger: know anyone with koffice beta 2 installed?
[16:29] <apachelogger> 2.1 beta2?
[16:30] <Riddell> yes
[16:30] <apachelogger> I suppose that can be installed?
[16:30] <Riddell> how?  the packages have vanished
[16:31] <ScottK> Do PPA packages live on in the librarian like archive ones do?
[16:31] <apachelogger> yes they do
[16:31] <apachelogger> and how did they vanish anyway?
[16:31] <Riddell> dunno, it's a mystery
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> I think I have beta2 installed
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> kword-kde4:
[16:32] <JontheEchidna>   Installed: 1:2.0.82-0ubuntu1~ppa3
[16:32] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: groovy, please upgrade to koffice from experimental
[16:32] <apachelogger> Deleted on 2009-10-29 by Alessandro Ghersi
[16:33] <JontheEchidna> sure thing
[16:33]  * apachelogger pokes Lex79 in the eye :P
[16:33] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: can you test the upgrade to rc1, I expect some problems there
[16:33] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: better from staging
[16:33] <Riddell> right, staging
[16:33] <Riddell> apachelogger: don't be mean to Lex79!
[16:33] <apachelogger> he was mean to koffice :P
[16:34] <apachelogger> anyhow
[16:34] <apachelogger> cookies for everyone!
[16:34]  * JontheEchidna adds staging to his now-uncrashy software-properties-kde
[16:35] <amichair> JontheEchidna, apachelogger: speaking of which, I just pushed the fix. have fun!
[16:35]  * apachelogger is going out for socializing
[16:35] <apachelogger> facebook doesnt cut it
[16:36] <amichair> JontheEchidna: what does staging mean?
[16:37] <JontheEchidna> this PPA right here: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/staging/
[16:38] <amichair> ah
[16:38] <amichair> well, that was a tough buffer. maybe I'll find me a cosmetic bug to fix now :-)
[16:38] <amichair> buffer/bugger/
[16:39] <amichair> say, is there gonna be a bugfix marathon or something? tidy things up before the LTS?
[16:40] <Riddell> the whole cycle should be more focused on bug fixing
[16:41] <neversfelde> is someone already working on koffice for lucid?
[16:42] <Riddell> nope
[16:42] <JontheEchidna> I've not touched koffice
[16:42] <Riddell> neversfelde: what needs doing that isn't already in that karmic rc package?  merging with debian?
[16:43] <neversfelde> Riddell: aren't we replacing koffice 1.6 with it?
[16:45] <Riddell> neversfelde: yes, so -kde4 endings should go
[16:45] <neversfelde> Riddell: and add transitional packages for -kde4?
[16:45] <Riddell> can do
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> http://paste.ubuntu.com/314211/
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> going for upgrading krita next
[16:46] <Riddell> humbug
[16:49] <JontheEchidna> krita went ok here, but I'd still take one more look at the debdiff since I already had --force-overwritten the koffice-data-kde4 package
[16:50] <neversfelde> I made some mistakes when updating the isntall files for beta1, thats the reason why I merged from debian. I have to leave for a few hours, but can fix this later, if nobody else can do it now.
[17:38] <amichair> how dows QA working in kubuntu? the wiki page seems to be a placeholder (https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/QA)
[17:43] <Riddell> "hopefully people test stuff and complain loud enough that we hear when it breaks"
[17:45] <ScottK> That and Riddell and davmor2 test a bazillion ISOs each.
[17:45] <amichair> oh.
[17:46] <ScottK> I tried to do some of the netbook ones in the last cycle, but it's mostly them.
[17:48] <amichair> same for the self-developed components?
[17:51] <Riddell> amichair: yes
[17:59] <ghostcube> hi thats the crash file i can save before logoff . i just see the crash report at logout http://pastie.org/690493
[17:59] <ghostcube> i think its not so helpful
[18:01] <ghostcube> oh for printer applet this is
[18:01] <ghostcube> :)
[18:02] <Riddell> it looks a bit like the crash caused by sip 4.9
[18:02] <dpm> Riddell, could you make sure https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-lucid-translations gets scheduled when you've got time? I'm about to request the old community session to be unscheduled and I want to make sure we do have a session :)
[18:02] <Riddell> ghostcube: apt-cache policy python-sip4
[18:03] <Riddell> dpm: yes I'll do the scheduling tomorrow morning, I believe I have elite scheduling powers
[18:03] <dpm> Riddell, ok, thanks :)
[18:03] <Riddell> JontheEchidna, apachelogger: do you guys want to be around during that?  if so do you have a preferred time?
[18:04] <ghostcube> Riddell: youst a moment doing apt-get update
[18:04] <ghostcube> btw is it "safe" to use 4.6 from ppa `
[18:04] <ghostcube> its in dist-upgrade
[18:05] <ghostcube> Riddell: 4.9.1-snapshot-20091015-0ubuntu1
[18:05] <ScottK> ghostcube: It's the experimental PPA.  Of course not.
[18:05] <Riddell> nothing in experimental is safe
[18:05] <ghostcube> heh thats why i did it in ""
[18:05] <ghostcube> whats expected to be broken after :D
[18:05] <Riddell> I expect it works yes
[18:06] <ghostcube> is this sip4 to old ?
[18:08] <ghostcube> ah btw i found out why firefox 3.5.6 isnt using any apturl links in firefox  like getdeb or so
[18:08] <Riddell> ghostcube: that's the right version of sip4
[18:09] <ghostcube> Riddell: hmm ok any other things i should try
[18:09] <ghostcube> this startet after jaunty >> karmic
[18:19] <ghostcube> nah my webcam bug is back
[18:19] <ghostcube> ;_(
[18:20] <ghostcube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/466935
[18:20] <ghostcube> anyone may have the same strange behaviours
[18:21] <ghostcube> it stoped at update it startet again working with kernel update yesterday
[18:21] <ghostcube> and stopped again 10 minutes ago after reboot
[18:38] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: on the 10th, the earliest I could do is 1400 UTC
[19:49] <amichair> Quintasan|Szel: sure, now what?
[19:49] <Quintasan|Szel> amichair: works for you?
[19:50] <Quintasan|Szel> srsly, I always has no major problems but tons of minor ones, in mine case, plasma crashes
[19:50] <amichair> u mean on the background?
[19:50] <amichair> right-click, add widget? works
[19:50] <Quintasan|Szel> nope
[19:51] <amichair> Quintasan|Szel: tell me what to do, I'll try
[19:51] <Quintasan|Szel> amichair: this will change your activities settings (if any)
[19:51] <amichair> that's the advantage of using a vm :-)
[19:52] <amichair> (I don't care :-) )
[19:52] <Quintasan|Szel> amichair: zoom out -> configure Plasma -> check both options -> zoom in, add Show Dashboard widget
[19:53] <Quintasan|Szel> amichair: click it, the try adding microblogging to dashboard
[19:54] <amichair> Quintasan|Szel: hmmm... when I click the 'show widget dashboard' icon, nothing happens
[19:55] <Quintasan|Szel> hmm
[19:55] <Quintasan|Szel> did you check Use separate dashboard in Plasma options?
[19:56] <amichair> yep, both checkboxes
[19:56] <amichair> does it matter if it's a livecd?
[19:57] <Quintasan|Szel> dunno, at least it crashes in mine case
[19:58] <amichair> btw, I do highly recommend using a vm (I use virtualbox) for recreating issues and checking - u get to check different versions and configurations, can't mess up anything, and fully reproducible
[19:58] <amichair> u can always go back to a known state (snapshot)
[19:59] <Quintasan|Szel> I know that however my machine has no support for virtualisation and everything is slooow as slowpoke
[20:00] <Quintasan|Szel> I will have a new machine with i5 tomorrow or on thursday
[20:00] <amichair> I used to use virtualbox on a p4, and it was pretty decent
[20:00] <amichair> Quintasan|Szel: cool!
[20:01] <Quintasan|Szel> well, I'm happy, using same ol' Athlon 64 is PITA
[20:01] <amichair> hmm the zoom in icons on one of the desktops are missing, and are shown only when the mouse moves over them, looks like a painting bug
[20:02] <Quintasan|Szel> whole ZUI is slow for me, guess thats my komputer for you :P
[20:02] <Quintasan|Szel> even Komputer
[20:03] <amichair> and it's always zooming into the same one, can't get back to the original (doesn't matter on which zoom button I click)
[20:03] <amichair> messed up
[20:05] <amichair> oh well
[20:35] <neversfelde> Riddell: koffice fixed, I move it to the backports beta ppa, ok?
[21:25] <Riddell> neversfelde: yes please
[21:25] <neversfelde> Riddell: already done
[21:26] <Riddell> great
[21:26] <amik> apachelogger: found a gpg file example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/133937/comments/9. if he made the mistake, anyone can :-)
[22:21] <amichair> apachelogger: or better yet, http://ppa.launchpad.net/apachelogger/ubuntu/dists/karmic/Release.gpg. so *.gpg should definitely be included...
[22:35] <ghostcube> question who codet apturl
[22:35] <ghostcube> :)
[22:41] <ScottK> vorian: Please don't mark yourself essential for a spec when you aren't going to be at UDS (unless something changed, in which case, cool).  It makes it impossible to schedule.
[22:42] <ghostcube> can anyone explain how apturl need to be feeded with links
[22:42] <ghostcube> ??
[22:42] <ghostcube> we trying to get this into midori
[22:42] <vorian> ScottK: whoopsie
[22:53] <Tscheesy> ghostcube: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/apturl and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptURL
[22:54] <ghostcube> thx