[00:00] Cheers, tonyyarusso. [00:00] the b/tards just started on #debian [00:00] (Not about the "can't change" part - he can, but it's less _likely_) [00:01] indeed [00:04] W/ 28 [00:48] sebsebseb called the ops in #ubuntu (v1ttu_) [00:49] Howdy Base10k, how can we help you? [00:49] Hi all, I'm trying to find out when (and why) i was banned from #ubuntu [00:49] Ah. [00:50] right, I see it now. [00:50] Base10k: clean up your ident, and you should have no problems [00:50] Base10k: Your ident [00:50] * Base10k doh [00:50] cheers [00:52] that fixed it, thanks [00:52] ttyl [00:53] can someone say the forkbomb, want to see if it sets off my hilight [00:53] say what? [00:54] the :(){... thing [00:55] Seeker`: [00:55] :(){ :|:& };: [00:55] !dangerous [00:55] DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you! [00:55] ty [00:55] (Just for the sake of logging) :3 [01:00] if someone puts a bad command in a channel, do they get a mark in the bt? [01:00] they said "dont do that" a minute later, and i told them id kick them if they pulled that again [01:01] @mark [01:01] (mark [] []) -- Creates an entry in the Bantracker as if was kicked from with the comment , if is given it will be uses as the comment on the Bantracker, is only needed when send in /msg [01:01] you likely need bantracker fu for that though [01:01] ok so marks are only for if they *do* get kicked [01:01] not if they were threatened with a kick [01:02] no kick needed. [01:02] if i say "@mark maco is a bad girl" and you leave yourself. then it still works. [01:03] haha ok [01:03] you mark stuff that is potentailly useful at a later date, but doesn't get autologged by the bot - which it does on kicks and bans I think [01:04] yep [01:05] such as someone talking about ban evading who stops when asked. you may like to mark them for future reference. [01:05] can you mark Ev0luti0n_ for inappropriate topics in #kubuntu? [01:05] i kicked him with "not appropriate" comment [01:05] he's continuing :-/ [01:05] then kick him again? [01:05] surely if they were kicked for something and they continute, that warrents a further kick / ban [01:06] not doing so will only teach him that he can get away with it [01:06] nalioth: v1ttu too [01:06] ah, uncle nalioth to the rescue? [01:07] yes [01:12] lolman in #ubuntu is using a !google script. [01:14] hi MenZa [01:14] DigitalKiwi: Hi DigitalKiwi. I was planning on /query'ing you, but I assumed, from your last line in #ubuntu, that you wouldn't take that kindly. So there you go, now you're here. [01:14] DigitalKiwi: What was that all about? [01:15] which bit [01:15] [2009-11-09 01:13:07 UTC] < DigitalKiwi> you guys cause perpetual noobdom with your spoonfeeding constantly :/ [01:16] hmm [01:17] So? [01:18] thinking of how to respond [01:18] It doesn't seem like you can come up with a sound argument for it - should I take that as such? [01:19] I don't want to get banned ;P [01:19] so I'm trying to word it nicely [01:19] Aha. [01:20] and clearly, mostly the clearly part [01:21] I'll do my best to decipher it, and ask you to clarify a particular word if necessary. [01:22] #ubuntu seems to have this view that contradicts my own, and that is to give people give every solution to the problem and never tell people how/why they got that solution, and not encourage people to look for the solution on their own for a few minutes [01:22] a lot of beginners just want the answers, they just want the solution [01:23] Seeker`: huh? [01:23] they don't care about the thought process behind it [01:23] they do, and they often demand that we give them it :/ [01:23] What, in my opinion, identifies a good guide over a bad one is one that explains the steps it goes through, so you get an idea of how things work. [01:23] I try to be as verbose and explanatory as possible when I can. [01:24] isn't that what #ubuntu is about, making sure a person's system works? A non-working system is one someone will spend little time learning [01:24] * MenZa casts English: +1 on everyone. [01:24] but if all people do is give them the answer they will never learn how to solve their own problems, and waste other peoples time when the first google/forum/wiki search has the answer [01:24] 'Waste' other people's time? [01:25] and thus be at a disadvantage and always be a help vampire [01:25] Noone's wasting my time in #ubuntu; I dedicate the time I use in #ubuntu to just that. No question is a waste or awry. [01:25] what do they do when nobody in the channel knows their answer or gives up on them if they don't know how to google? [01:25] I don't think that's what we do. I'm spending my time helping people, [01:26] Not all Ubuntu users, unlike, say, 95% of Debian/Gentoo/Arch users, are geeks, who want to learn about the most intricate details of their systems. They just want it to work. [01:26] Then they're in the same position they were when they came in. I've helped and taught people here for years; I don't mind doing either [01:26] * nalioth waves at the stranger named nickrud [01:26] * nickrud wonders who that is [01:27] I'm not so much against giving people answers as much as giving people answers without explanation, or even against giving occasional answers a simple search would reveal, but more against giving people dozens of answers that a simple scanning of a man page or what not says, [01:27] DigitalKiwi: See my above statement. [01:28] I remember the first time I installed 5.10. I was dropped straight into a tty with no X. I asked an old friend of mine, and he gave me the command to re-configure xserver-xorg, I had X, I was happy and willing to continue exploring. [01:28] yeah, i find that unfortunate but can't really do anything about it :( (the not geeks part) [01:28] So, if we can't change the people we're trying to help, why don't we change the way that we provide help? [01:29] But I still think that just giving a solution instead of teaching how to find the solution via forums or what not makes them at a disadvantage [01:29] some people don't care about forums etc. [01:29] DigitalKiwi: How does "just google it" help them exactly? [01:30] others may care, but are just finding their feet in the OS, so won't understand the stuff required to fix the issue [01:30] Not everyone wants to learn linux. It should not be required to use Ubuntu. Hence #ubuntu [01:30] well just google it doesn't always help, but I do know that sometimes I ask a question, someone says google it, and I'm like "oh, I didn't think of that" and so I google it and am happy [01:30] * nalioth prefers to provide help following the old axiom "give a man a fish, and he'll eat for the day. teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime." [01:30] yeah, but some people don't like fish [01:30] nalioth: then he'll enquire about borrowing your gear, where to best rent a boat, where the best fishing spots are, etc. [01:30] DigitalKiwi: If you know nothing about what you're doing, google isn't helpful. [01:31] google isn't helpful if you _do_ know what you're doing [01:31] I could show my parents how to find answers, and they still wouldn't be any better off [01:31] That's my preferred method as well. But they're not going to be eating fish daily, or even monthly. It's better to just get a fish a few times a year in that case. [01:31] Flannel: more often than not googling an error message returns the solution [01:31] * nalioth has a long list of questions that have never been answered re: ubuntu [01:31] they just want a working system [01:32] Nor should they be expected to understand the underpinnings, this isn't gentoo. [01:32] SOUND <-- nalioth could you start with that one? [01:32] google is actually pretty amazing... you can ask it a question the same as you would ask in #ubuntu and it's likely to give the answer >.> [01:33] some people don't care how linux works, or have any interest in learning how to do anything other than browse the web / check emails [01:33] if you can sort though the chaff. I remember learning linux for the first time with google and nothing else. [01:33] DigitalKiwi: No, it really doesn't. It does *for* *you* because you know how to weed through the crap/bad answers/things that don't apply to you. [01:33] gf calling we can continue later? [01:33] god that was fun as hell :) [01:33] DigitalKiwi: But for someone without any idea of what's right/wrong, it does no good. [01:33] Flannel: maybe ubuntu should train people to google [01:34] DigitalKiwi: You're right. Since knowing how to use google is a requirement to use a computer. [01:34] ubuntu should train system admins to google. Users should just jsue. [01:34] DigitalKiwi: why don't we require everyone to learn how to design an IC while we're at it. [01:35] anyway, I don't know why I'm in this convo, I haven't helped but a couple times in a year now [01:35] knowing how to get answers is a basic requirement for survival ;p [01:35] DigitalKiwi: Asking someone is generally a good start. [01:35] yep. Ask those who know. I don't know how to repair a car. At all. But since I drive I should? [01:36] it is economically wise to know how to ;-D [01:36] Bing! 'Economically-wise'. It's not a requirement. [01:36] please tell me you can at least change a tire ;_; [01:36] * MenZa can't. [01:36] * MenZa can't check his oil gauge, either. [01:36] well, I don't *have* an oil gauge, but yeah. [01:36] Not necessarily. My time might be better spend making money for a one day repair. [01:37] DigitalKiwi: so you can repair everything in your house? [01:37] usually [01:37] you know how to make every food item you buy? [01:37] rather than having no car while I look up the right repair techniques and practice [01:37] * DigitalKiwi has rebuilt transmissions [01:37] for example [01:38] Wonderful. But do you expect everyone to be able to do that? [01:38] nop [01:38] so why expect everyone to be able to find out how to fix problems in ubuntu? [01:38] but being able to google something is not the same as rebuilding a transmission >.> [01:38] we see repairing ubuntu in the same light [01:39] for some people, it is [01:39] understanding what google tells you (and making sure you're not using expired info) takes a lot of prior effort [01:39] * MenZa can see this discussion is reaching an end, hopefully, and runs off to make coffee. [01:39] rebuilding a transmission requires a lot more time and equipment than knowing how to use google, which can be applied to a lot more than just fixing ubuntu [01:39] I'm a google god (except when it comes to sound :). [01:40] DigitalKiwi: you seem to care about computers, so knowing how to google is important to you [01:40] DigitalKiwi, you're expecting a certain level of knowledge on the part of new users. You should spend some time with simple users again, and understand what their wants and needs are. We are not here to force people to become proficient in linux. [01:41] Hm, I thought of a pretty good analogy related to the car-driving one we had earlier. [01:41] Maps. [01:41] A lot of people, brilliant drivers as they may be, suck at reading maps. Myself included. I'll flip it the wrong way round, or miss the small roads and send myself on a large detour. [01:42] The same goes for structuring a proper Google query. Are we talking a 32-bit or a 64-bit system? KDE or GNOME? Which distribution version? All these things. [01:43] An old guide will, for instance, suggest that you use 'sudo /etc/init.d/blah (start|stop|restart)', where it's actually 'service blah (start|stop|restart)' now (or so I'm told). [01:43] All these little things, which can make quite a difference. [01:43] Aaaand, that's my monologue for the day. [01:43] there is too much information in the world for everyone to know everything [01:44] I know how to program / fix computers [01:44] someone else knows how to make furniture [01:44] Seeker`: That's true. The only solution is to take away MenZa's drivers license because he can't read maps. [01:44] lawl [01:44] heh [01:44] I don't have one, Flannel. Nor do I drive. But the analogy was good! [01:44] I don't care if the furniture-maker doesn't want to learn about how to fix their computer, as long as they don't expect me to be able to make a sofa before I can sit on mine [01:45] MenZa: Good thing too. Be sure you learn to read maps properly before you try and get a license. [01:45] * MenZa shall. [01:45] Although my phone doubles as a GPS... [01:48] DigitalKiwi: I think you see the point we're trying to make [01:50] yeah [01:50] :) [01:51] Thanks for joining. :) [01:51] np [01:52] should I leave now? :( [01:52] I'd keep talking but gf is having crisis >.> [01:53] DigitalKiwi: Feel free to come back when you're able to talk [01:53] k [01:53] thanks for the chat! tata [01:53] :) [01:59] MenZa: I was just going to remove him the next time he said something stupid. But that works. [02:00] Flannel: I'm talking to him in PM. [02:00] Sounds good [02:00] Asking him to have a read of the CoC and the Guidelines, and sent him a link. [02:00] Be sure to point out that abbreviations/slang make it difficult for non-english speakers to participate [02:01] If he's a reasonable person, giving him a reason for the rule carries a lot of clout [02:04] Flannel: Well, most of what I'm getting currently is " u know u cant ban for u" [02:05] Ah, what a lovely guy. [02:05] Rather. [02:06] Flannel: http://jqd.org/pastebin?id=895 - password is ubuntu [02:07] Flannel: I was planning on leaving the quiet for an hour or so. [02:09] MenZa: This channel is logged publically. [02:09] Yes, Pricey, it is. It was for the sole purpose of not ridding this channel with ~20 or so lines. [02:18] I'll be unquieting him in half an hour's time. [02:21] Any trigger.pl users in the house? I'm trying to understand the syntax for an on-beep event [02:28] nvm, apparently I just had a version of the script that didn't have that feature. Upgraded. [03:34] ctmjr called the ops in #ubuntu (antonius is a troll that will not stop) [03:35] MenZa: Did you ever unmute him? [03:36] Flannel: Just did. [03:47] oh lawd [03:48] Im crossing my fingers that he won't come back. Doubt it though [03:48] * MenZa nods [04:39] russlar called the ops in #kubuntu () [05:10] @login [05:10] The operation succeeded. [05:12] lstarnes called the ops in #ubuntu (RAMPU) [05:12] evil irssi [05:13] HI, i came from #ubuntu, i have this error on multiple repos, "W: GPG error: http://ubuntu.mirrors.isu.net.sa karmic-security Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key " [05:13] Pricey, did I mis-ban? [05:13] bazhang: nope, but your removal of hte ban meant that my /unban 393, hit the 'old' 394. [05:14] Pricey, I didn't remove a ban, perhaps you are referring to floodbot? [05:14] sarthor: this is not a suppoer channel. please ask in #ubuntu. thanks. [05:15] bazhang: bah yes, that [05:15] Pricey, okay, thanks [05:15] bruenig, how may we assist you [05:15] bruenig: you are banned in #ubuntu. please do not use that channel, even if the host you are using evades the bans in place. [05:15] aha [05:16] in #ubuntu i called for help, they said to go to #ops, i went there, and they said go to #ubunu-ops, so i am here, Where next to go? i wander, [05:16] when were I ban [05:16] ? [05:16] :( [05:16] sarthor, #ubuntu is the correct place [05:16] Ok. [05:16] #ubuntu bruenig elky Oct 05 2009 02:40:11 Show log inline | full [05:16] srsly, no trolling allowed here. [05:16] elky, Oct 05 2009 02:40:11 [05:16] bruenig!n=root@ip-129-15-127-221.fennfwsm.ou.edu [05:16] bruenig!n=root@ip-129-15-127-221.fennfwsm.ou.edu [05:16] elky, Oct 05 2009 02:40:11 [05:17] oh ha, must have been at the library [05:17] bruenig: now you know you are banned, and not welcome. please do not attempt to /join the channel. [05:17] I just have channels on autojoin [05:17] shit [05:17] I was helping though :/ [05:17] i hate freenode [05:18] freenode-sucks: tell them in #freenode. [05:18] * freenode-sucks kicks ass [05:18] told someone how to use bash aliases [05:18] * freenode-sucks [05:18] freenode-sucks, yoshi765 did you need something [05:18] * freenode-sucks [05:18] that was the last thing I see I said in the channel [05:18] * freenode-sucks rapes bruenig [05:19] bruenig: no amount of help makes up for your overtly troll-ish behavior. sow what you reap. [05:19] hmm [05:19] * freenode-sucks kills him [05:19] so trollish that somehow I am not banned for a whole month? [05:20] I idle in ubuntu and give tips when other channels are slow, I don't know what your deal is [05:21] 2009-10-05T02:36:24 is there a way to id myself as a root ?? [05:21] 2009-10-05T02:36:41 prajjwal: there is a way, but we are not allowed to tell you in this channel [05:21] seems pretty legit answer [05:21] 2009-10-05T02:36:56 they get really angry when we do [05:21] not like I actually told him [05:21] which would have been banworthy [05:21] and you're savvy enough to know "sudo -i" or "sudo su" [05:22] that was not his question [05:22] sudo -i does not identify you as root [05:22] welp, take it up with elky. it's her ban. [05:22] i banned you for dodging bans. [05:22] which you clearly did. [05:22] well alright then [05:22] odd enforcement timing [05:23] Flannel, I have him in PM [05:23] i don;t live in front of IRC. [05:23] I had no idea I was dodging, I just autojoin as I said before [05:23] and now you know [05:23] I know when I am unbanned from places when they pop up [05:23] so we may expect it will not happen again. [05:24] well obviously that extremely mild incident was not repeated as here we are a month later and I am helping people with bash aliases [05:24] is this is the over trolling you complain of, you have odd standards [05:24] I would think you meant something like what freenode-sucks did [05:24] if this* [05:25] one more time ... [05:25] take. it. up. with. elky. [05:25] would elky then have the ability to remove yours? [05:25] of course. [05:25] or would I need to get her to -b hers then go to you? [05:25] oh ok [05:25] she is at work it seems [05:25] I shall memo [05:48] kostkon called the ops in #ubuntu (F5 is a spammer) [05:48] FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [05:48] FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [05:48] crap [05:48] +m captain [05:48] +m [05:48] No need for +m [05:49] With an influx of spambots? [05:49] Looks like there's only two IPs [05:49] that was weird [05:49] dealing [05:50] kapow [05:52] Oh, five IPs [05:53] more than two IPs and all that showed up caught the cattle cars on the k-train [05:53] :D [05:55] now more are arriving in other channels [06:05] Howdy F[uCKe]R. [06:05] i need register..? [06:05] F[uCKe]R: no, you need manners [06:05] find yours, and you can join #ubuntu [06:06] ok [06:06] in status [06:06] said that [06:06] #ubuntu #ubuntu-ops Forwarding to another channel [06:06] F[uCKe]R: Right. [06:08] hu,, [06:08] hum* [06:08] F[uCKe]R: Fix the problems with your nick and your ident, and you'll be able to join [06:09] ah ok [06:09] i see [06:10] done [06:11] Odd, that use of "(repeat)" in #ubuntu [06:11] thanks you [06:11] * MenZa nods at Pricey [06:11] Pricey: that two people did it at the same time? [06:11] mmhm [06:11] Pricey: Probably mXe saw the other guy do it [06:12] * MenZa assumes so [07:53] Jordan_U: Anything you need? [07:53] bruenig: Is there somethign else you need help with? [07:54] wgrant: could you make sure you are identified? :) [07:54] fdoving: also please. [07:55] jussio1: Hm, maybe I lost stuff in the two hour netsplit yesterday. Sorry. [07:55] That looks better. [07:55] yup [07:55] morning dholbach [07:56] good morning === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [09:02] FireCrotch called the ops in #ubuntu (Candlejac (Posting a bad bad bad bad link)) [09:19] Would anyone in here like an invitaiton to one of them fancy Wave thingamajics? [09:28] MenZa: yes :) [09:29] tsimpson: Google account? :) [09:29] kubuntu.tsimpson@googlemail.com [09:30] I've nominated you, but it won't be sent immediately. [09:30] thanks, I love new toys :) [09:30] :D [09:30] Welcome. :) [09:30] Thought I'd ask in here before I threw them all away. [09:31] (I have 7 more left - poke me if you want one) [09:33] now google can own *ALL* my data :D [09:35] haha [09:50] heh [09:58] MenZa: can I request for a friend of mine? [10:09] jussio1: certainly [11:19] any thoughts on adding lmgtfy to the !noob factoid [11:29] !noob [11:29] Acronyms or statements like noob, jfgi, stfu, or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period. [11:30] bazhang: I'd say yes, but wait comments from others too [11:33] Tm_T, thanks, will do [11:37] BillyBobby is a reverse quote bot [11:37] back in #kubuntu now [11:38] and out [11:38] What a stupid bot [11:45] indus, how may we help you [12:17] FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [12:17] FloodBotK2 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [12:17] FloodBotK3 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [12:17] FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [12:17] FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [13:34] why does indus keep joining and leaving? [13:47] banforward? [13:47] No, I didn't see one. [13:49] no, seeems like he gets an "issue" and then thinks the better of it or it gets resolved [13:49] yep [13:50] wants a 'ruling' [16:03] FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [16:03] FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [16:03] FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (mass join) [16:30] FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) [16:30] FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) [16:30] FloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) [16:30] yuck [16:31] erm [16:31] k-lined [16:36] is it just me that is getting the ddc crap [16:36] No. [16:36] or is that what (exploit) is [16:37] gnomefreak: That is indeed why the bots called the ops. [16:37] Pici: thanks [17:08] !nickspam eric [17:08] Sorry, I don't know anything about nickspam eric [17:45] IdleOne called the ops in #ubuntu (Malx posting porn links) [17:57] If anyone has an IRC related subject that should be discussed at UDS, please let jussio1 or I know here. [18:41] We should get the bots on testnet to make sure they function correctly [18:42] Amaranth: true [18:42] tsimpson: maybe pop an iteration up on there? [18:43] jussio1: I'm on there now, there will be issues :) [18:43] also ljl is testing the floodbots [18:43] hehe [18:43] ok, nice [18:43] issues are there too [18:44] the way identify-msg works has changed, so we'll need to change IRCLogin [18:44] hrr [18:44] does that mean like every irc client needs to adjust also? [18:45] probably, yes [18:45] yay for fun... [18:45] it's actually using the more "standard" way to get capabilities, but it's not the most common [18:46] the new way -> http://www.leeh.co.uk/draft-mitchell-irc-capabilities-02.html [18:47] testnet is getting quite a spamming [18:47] hehe [18:47] thats what its there for, no? [18:48] not this type of spam, no [18:49] ooh, /whois shows what server someone is connected to [18:49] that's new [18:49] cool [21:30] talkative in here today [21:36] just a reminder: [19:57:43] If anyone has an IRC related subject that should be discussed at UDS, please let jussio1 or I know here. [22:13] "plz write a nice telepathy irc client or make xchat-gnome telepathic. empathy irc is not relivunt to my intress. thx" [22:16] i might have other, better ones later :) [22:16] +1 [23:21] LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (Strangerr) [23:21] erUSUL called the ops in #ubuntu (Strangerr) [23:21] furuno called the ops in #ubuntu (Strangerr) [23:25]