[00:25] <Riddell> kde 3 packages are so painful
[00:25] <Riddell> all that automake yuckyness
[02:08] <nhandler> apachelogger: Any chance of you changing the details of kubuntu-dev-tools on Launchpad so that it shows up as 'kubuntu-dev-tools' or 'Kubuntu Developer Tools' in bug reports instead of 'Useful tools for Kubuntu developers' ?
[02:42] <JontheEchidna> KTorrent 3.3 is out, neat.
[02:44] <JontheEchidna> does soyuz support 3.0 (quilt) yet?
[02:45] <ScottK> No
[02:46] <ScottK> It supports not dieing if it runs into it, but not actually using it.
[02:51] <JontheEchidna> meh
[02:52] <JontheEchidna> dh --with-kde needs translations support anyways.
[02:52] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: This is because it's only been planned for squeeze for a couple of years, so there's no way the LP developers could have anticipated this.
[02:53] <JontheEchidna> Of course not. :/
[02:55] <ScottK> We wouldn't even have not crashing if wgrant (a community dev, not Canonical) hadn't worked on it.
[02:57] <jjesse> was that sarcasm i was sensing?
[02:58] <JontheEchidna> nooooo :P
[02:58] <ScottK> jjesse: No more than usual.
[02:58]  * JontheEchidna pbuilds his fancy ktorrent merge
[02:58] <jjesse> oooo a fancy merge
[02:58] <JontheEchidna> fancy? newfangled?
[02:59] <JontheEchidna> too fancy for LP anyways
[02:59] <ScottK> Not saying much
[03:01] <JontheEchidna> With source 3.0 uploads making their way to squeeze, I'd say that "it" will hit the fan shortly, if it hasn't already
[03:03] <ScottK> Well getting soyuz to not crash is the reason turning on autosync got delayed.
[03:03] <JontheEchidna> is autosync running yet?
[03:04] <ScottK> Yes.
[03:04] <ScottK> The first pulse is about built
[03:04] <ScottK> IIRC just ia64 and sparc aren't done.
[03:05] <jjesse> soyuz is the name of the part of LP that does the building rithg?
[03:05]  * jjesse can never keep all the names straight
[03:05] <ScottK> jjesse: Yes.
[07:05] <ScottK> Popcon says ~900K ubuntu-desktop, 150K kubuntu-desktop, 60K xubuntu-desktop, ~350 kubuntu-desktop-kde3, 125 kubuntu-netbook, 35 lubuntu-desktop.
[07:05] <ScottK> In absoute terms it doesn't mean anything, but the relative numbers may mean something.
[07:07] <ScottK> edubuntu ~9200, edubuntu-kde ~2300
[07:34] <amichair> ScottK: cool stats! where can I see the graphs? interesting to see trends as well
[09:18] <Mamarok> are the Neon builds in Jaunty still working?
[09:19] <ghostcube> hullu peoples
[09:19] <ghostcube> Mamarok: amarok-nightly ?
[09:19] <Mamarok> yes
[09:19] <ghostcube> hmm there isnt a karmic repo for it till now afaik
[09:19] <ghostcube> and so i think they should yes
[09:20] <Mamarok> since I have a strange report, that guy uses KDE 4.3.0 and the latest was 4.3.2 + Amarok Neon
[09:20] <Mamarok> same for KDE builds?
[09:21] <ghostcube> hmm i tried neon on 4.3.2 dont know if this will work in 4.3.30
[09:21] <ghostcube> boah
[09:21] <ghostcube> 4.3.0
[10:40] <ghostcube> anyone can help with apturl maybe its not possible to get it into midori for now
[10:40] <ghostcube> the wiki things dont help
[11:06] <wstephenson> hi, i'm installing a kubuntu to fix your bug https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=210878
[11:07] <wstephenson> and i need a hand configuring kubuntu's grub - it doesn't have a menu.lst file to add/remove os sections
[11:07] <wstephenson> can i get priority kubuntu n00b assistance?
[11:08] <ghostcube> woha so u have grub 2
[11:08] <ghostcube> wait a moment
[11:08] <jussi01> !grub2
[11:08] <Riddell> wstephenson: it's grub 2 which uses grub.cfg
[11:09] <jussi01> wstephenson: that page has pretty much everything youll need
[11:09] <wstephenson> is there a gui tool for it?
[11:10] <ghostcube> oh we have a id for it :|
[11:10] <ghostcube> wstephenson: if you want an german howto there is one too
[11:10] <wstephenson> ghostcube: thanks but no
[11:11] <Riddell> wstephenson: no there's no gui tool
[11:11] <ghostcube> wstephenson: you can kick it and use grub1 again
[11:11] <ghostcube> :D
[11:11] <Riddell> he doesn't say what he's upgrading from or to
[11:11] <wstephenson> Riddell: i'll just read the docs and do it by hand
[11:11] <wstephenson> it's a clean 9.10 install
[11:12] <Riddell> although the crash is reported in svn1029786 version which is the one from 9.10 (but not the one in kubuntu updates which has fixes for GSM/VPN)
[11:15] <wstephenson> argh
[11:15] <wstephenson> can someone check if the bug is reproduceable with the latest version?
[11:15] <wstephenson> it should be a simple 'restart NM and see if KNM crashes' job
[11:16] <neversfelde> wstephenson: I'll try it
[11:20] <neversfelde> wstephenson: it crashes. Do you need the crash report from Dr. Konqui
[11:21] <wstephenson> neversfelde: if it's the same as at 210878 there's no need
[11:21] <neversfelde> k
[11:27] <Riddell> I can't recreate it, although I am using svn1040607 from updates
[11:28] <neversfelde> Riddell: we need libwv2-4 for koffice in lucid, can you upload it there or should I file a sync bug in launchpad?
[11:29] <Riddell> neversfelde: if it's in debian then a sync bug is the way to go
[11:29] <Riddell> and it is my archive admin day today
[11:30] <neversfelde> Riddell: ok, I will do it right now
[11:30] <ScottK> amichair: popcon.ubuntu.com, but you need to grab a copy of the data periodically as it doesn't hold history.
[11:31] <amichair> ScottK: too bad, wonder if someone did that and posted nice graphs on their blog or something
[11:31] <ScottK> Not that I've seen.
[11:31] <wstephenson> neversfelde: do you have the updated 40607?
[11:32] <amichair> ScottK: I was actually happy to see the stats, somehow I always assumed kubuntu has a *much* smaller market share than ubuntu... wonder if we're catching up?
[11:32] <ScottK> No idea.
[11:32] <ScottK> The thing about popcon is it's really hard to tell what it means.
[11:33] <ScottK> Since it's opt-in, you don't know.
[11:33] <ScottK> Is there some reason that Kubuntu people would opt-in more or less often than Ubuntu people?
[11:34] <neversfelde> wstephenson: yes, 0.9~svn1040607
[11:34] <amichair> ScottK: that would probably only depend on where/how the opt-in occurs. if it's exactly the same in both GUI-wise, the stats can't be too far off
[11:34] <ScottK> amichair: It's hidden in the advanced tab of the installer.
[11:35] <amichair> > 1M entries is quiet a sample space... probably very small margin of error (but IANAStatistician)
[11:35] <amichair> ScottK: and in ubuntu it's hidden in the same place?
[11:35] <ScottK> amichair: popcon.ubuntu.com is for the Ubuntu repos.
[11:36] <ScottK> So you have to look at packages you'd find in different flavors to distinguish.
[11:36] <wstephenson> Riddell: how do i register the kubuntu-updates repo?
[11:37]  * wstephenson really should use *buntu for a month or 2 for some competitor analysis, he is clueless
[11:38] <Riddell> wstephenson: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kubuntu-ppa/ppa
[11:38] <Riddell> or through kpackagekit in system settings
[11:39] <wstephenson> ok, upgrading
[11:47] <amichair> what's the distinction between wishlist-priority bugs and 'wishes' with low/medium/high priority? do wishlists not have priorities themselves?
[11:51] <wstephenson> Riddell, neversfelde: ok, crashes here too.
[11:53] <Riddell> wstephenson: doing what?  upgrading to that PPA?
[11:54] <wstephenson> Riddell: KNM crashes on NM restart after upgrading from that PPA
[11:55] <wstephenson> just not on opensuse...
[11:55] <wstephenson> Riddell: plasma-networkmanagement seems not to depend on network-manager-[vpnc|openvpn|pptp], which its VPN plugins require to work.
[11:56] <Riddell> oh
[11:56] <Riddell> yes restarting network manager kills it
[11:59] <Riddell> wstephenson: hum, we don't even have those in main, I wonder why not
[12:00] <wstephenson> Riddell: i started with a ubuntu then installed kubuntu-desktop on top of it, and that had the vpn NM plugins - is that a different main?
[12:00] <wstephenson> (they weren't installed by default but they were in the repo, i only added the kubuntu ppa to the default repos)
[12:02] <Riddell> wstephenson: network-manager-[vpnc|openvpn|pptp] are all in universe, which is enabled by default but indicates that it's unsupported
[12:02] <Riddell> it seems like something we'd want by default
[12:02] <Riddell> although they do all seem to depend on Gnome GUI libraries
[12:02] <wstephenson> they are in the default opensuse repo
[12:03] <wstephenson> ah, then they haven't split the plugins up into the server plugin and the gnome UI plugin.
[12:03] <neversfelde> Riddell: there is already a sync request for wv2 from ScottK bug 477877
[12:03] <wstephenson> eg we have NetworkManager, NetworkManager-openvpn, NetworkManager-gnome, NetworkManager-openvpn-gnome, NetworkManager-kde, Networkmanager-openvpn-kde etc
[12:04] <Riddell> neversfelde: he's a fast one so he is
[12:04] <neversfelde> :)
[12:14] <wstephenson> Riddell: also the dbus policy perms for pptp appear to be globally wrong in *buntu, NetworkManager can't call the VPN plugin to ask it if it needs secrets
[12:16] <ghostcube> neversfelde: no support today ? hehe you may can help with apturl
[12:16] <neversfelde> ghostcube: I know nothing about that
[12:16] <ghostcube> damn :)
[12:35] <amichair> why is plasma-desktop reading from the disk every  2-4 refreshes of iotop?
[13:01] <Dario_Andres> Hi, does anyone know which package contains the debug symbols for the folderview widget ?
[13:02] <Dario_Andres> (/usr/lib/kde4/plasma_applet_folderview.so)
[13:02] <Riddell> Dario_Andres: it's from kdebase as I remember so kdebase-dbg
[13:02] <Dario_Andres> oh, right that it is on kdebase-apps... thanks Riddell :)
[13:03] <Riddell> Dario_Andres: do you have an opinion on use of apport vs drkonqi?  we're considering not using apport during the next development cycle
[13:04] <Dario_Andres> nice timing as we are currently discussing how to reduce the duplicate noise that drkonqi is currently causing on bugs.kde.org :-\
[13:05] <Dario_Andres> If I could somehow improve the duplicate handling on the application itself I would say go for it,
[13:05] <Dario_Andres> it would surely reduce your work on upstream(kde) crashes... and , if it is done properly, it shouldn't affect bugs.kde.org triagers too much
[13:06] <Riddell> Dario_Andres: do duplicates handling in drkonqi?
[13:06] <Riddell> I'm not sure how that would work, surely it has to be done by the bug tracker
[13:07] <Dario_Andres> DrKonqi implements a list of possible duplicates that the users can check and suggest as duplicates or   say that the new crash should be attached to an existant report (kde4.4)
[13:07] <Dario_Andres> but people do not read to much and tend to be lazy....
[13:08] <Dario_Andres> + including ~useless~ descriptions... that results in too much noise for devs and triagers
[13:09] <Dario_Andres> we are currently working in order to ~force~ the user to check for duplicates (and improve the possible duplicate list, so users will have to check less reports)
[13:10] <Dario_Andres> + forcing the users to include "meaningful" descriptions/data
[13:16] <Dario_Andres> I'm also currently considering to disable DrKonqi for some KDE4.3 versions.... (so users need to report the crashes manually)
[13:18] <Riddell> you mean for 4.3.4?
[13:19] <Dario_Andres> no, for older versions
[13:19] <Dario_Andres> so the only way to implement that is on the bugzilla server....
[13:19] <Dario_Andres> I have some patch ideas and I have contacted mattr.... but I'm not really sure if it is possible to implement
[13:27] <amichair> is there any software-properties bug you guys would like me to look at in particular?
[13:29] <JontheEchidna> amichair: I think you pretty much fixed all the major/well-known bugs a few days ago :)
[13:30] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I still see a few tens of bugs :-(
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> a lot of those are for software-properties-gtk
[13:31] <JontheEchidna> oh, bug 350017 would be nice to have fixed. (reimplement find best server so it doesn't make it crash)
[13:31] <amichair> JontheEchidna: yeah, too bad there's no tagging or standard way to write that, it's confusing
[13:31] <amichair> JontheEchidna: ok, I'll take a look
[13:31] <neversfelde> if I add new Replaces: or Conflicts: after merging, does it need to be mentioned in the changelog?
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> that bug description could use some work; I'll edit it
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: yes, I add those as new changes rather than listing them as remaining changes
[13:32] <amichair> JontheEchidna: oh, there are also a bunch related to i18n, but I think apachelogger is working on them
[13:33] <amichair> JontheEchidna: but crashes are more interesting :-)
[13:33] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: thanks
[13:35]  * apachelogger is not working on i18n anymore
[13:35] <apachelogger> sp needs revised internals to make i18n work reliably
[13:36] <apachelogger> ghostcube: me did apturl
[13:36] <apachelogger> nhandler: why me, it's always me
[13:36] <apachelogger> amichair: looking into .gpg
[13:37] <apachelogger> right
[13:37] <amichair> apachelogger: good morning :-)
[13:37] <apachelogger> amichair: http://ppa.launchpad.net/apachelogger/ubuntu/dists/karmic/Release.gpg
[13:37] <apachelogger> is the signing of http://ppa.launchpad.net/apachelogger/ubuntu/dists/karmic/Release
[13:37] <apachelogger> no key here
[13:39] <apachelogger> anyhow
[13:39] <apachelogger> can we please accept that .gpg is no valid file ending for keys and move on
[13:39] <amichair> apachelogger: how about the one before it? I've seen others too
[13:39] <apachelogger> they are wrong
[13:39] <apachelogger> if you feel that .gpg should be valid for keys then go report a bug with the freedesktop.org shared mime database
[13:40] <apachelogger> until then standards imply that .gpg nor .pgp is a valid ending for keys
[13:40] <amichair> apachelogger: I don't care. but unless u can make the world change it's ways, it might be better to provide a useful gui :-/
[13:40] <apachelogger> right
[13:40] <apachelogger> via
[13:40] <apachelogger> the
[13:40] <apachelogger> standard
[13:40] <apachelogger> that has nothing to do with sp
[13:40] <apachelogger> nor kdelibs
[13:41] <apachelogger> but everything with the freedesktop.org shared mime database
[13:41] <apachelogger> that is where .gpg should be added to the endings of key files and not enywhere else
[13:41] <amichair> apachelogger: agreed
[13:41] <apachelogger> good :)
[13:42]  * apachelogger sips tea and hands amichair a cookie 
[13:42] <amichair> apachelogger: that's good enough for me!
[13:45] <amichair> JontheEchidna: should I ignore everything the reporter said? it doesn't like like he was doing what he said he was doing.
[13:45] <JontheEchidna> amichair: for the "find best server" crash?
[13:46] <amichair> JontheEchidna: ya. even his correction seems out of place
[13:46] <ghostcube> apachelogger: you did apturl ?
[13:46] <ghostcube> can you may help to get it working in midori
[13:46] <apachelogger> I have no clue what midori is
[13:46] <apachelogger> sounds like something fance though
[13:46] <apachelogger> fancy even
[13:47] <amichair> isn't it an alcoholic beverage?
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> amichair: pretty much. Basically if you re-enable the find best server button and try to use it you'll get a lovely crash or at least a pretty funky looking dialog
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> an example of QA fail
[13:48] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: whatever happened to jwisser?
[13:48] <JontheEchidna> dunno
[13:48] <apachelogger> :(
[13:48] <ghostcube> eh ? midori is opnsource browse4r
[13:48] <ghostcube> on webkit gtk port
[13:48] <ghostcube> #midori is the channel
[13:48] <apachelogger> http://www.midori-world.com/
[13:49] <ghostcube> http://www.twotoasts.de/index.php?/pages/midori_summary.html
[13:49] <amichair> JontheEchidna: speaking of, it looks like nobody tried running sp-kde in non-ascii locale - it crashes and/or corrupts sources.list in various exciting ways...
[13:49] <apachelogger> ghostcube: if it was KDE based ... you'd have to do nothing :P
[13:52] <apachelogger> ghostcube: anhyhow, you basically just need an url/uri handler that forwards the URI to apturl
[13:52] <apachelogger> ah just the man
[13:52] <apachelogger> jwisser: ahoy!
[13:53] <jwisser> apachelogger: Good morning! Sorry I haven't been around. What an I do for you?
[13:54] <apachelogger> there is some nice dude on the kubuntu-devel mailing list who offered to contribute in promotion, so I though that you might want to make him a general marketing minion :D
[13:57] <ghostcube> apachelogger: yeah we did a code snippet but apturl-kde tells us ascii codec cant encode string
[13:57] <jwisser> apachelogger: Shiny. ::grumbles:: Does this mean I have to join a new mailing list?
[13:58] <apachelogger> jwisser: well, it is low traffic, but in general it makes sense to be subscribed there, since about everything about the project goes there
[13:58] <apachelogger> if it ends up on some mailing list at all
[13:58] <apachelogger> ghostcube:
[13:58] <apachelogger> ehm
[13:58] <apachelogger> ghostcube: more information please :)
[13:58] <ghostcube> hehe i thought this would be the next post
[13:58] <ghostcube> if you have a bit time you can join #midori
[13:58] <ghostcube> the devs are there too
[14:00] <jwisser> apachelogger: All right, I'll join. In the meantime, does he have an email address?
[14:01] <apachelogger> jwisser: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2009-November/003516.html
[14:01] <apachelogger> ghostcube: I dont :P
[14:02] <ghostcube> hehe so i may bring the dev in here eh ?
[14:02] <apachelogger> I dont have time
[14:02]  * apachelogger needs to leave for exam in a bit
[14:03] <ghostcube> oh ok
[14:05] <ghostcube> hmmm is this not the wrong url deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/ppa/ubuntu karmic main
[14:05] <ghostcube> isnt it backports ?
[14:05] <Riddell> ghostcube: I changed it to updates, it shouldn't have been backports
[14:05] <ghostcube> oh ok
[14:06] <ghostcube> ehm Riddell qt or kde 4.3.3 i meant kde 4.3.3
[14:06] <ghostcube> the docu on kubuntu.org its a bit confuing or is it only me ?
[14:07] <ghostcube> nm
[14:07] <ghostcube> boah iam stupid
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> sweet, doing a debuild -nc with dh7 doesn't make cmake go through installing everything again
[14:44] <JontheEchidna> (if a build failed during the final package building, etc)
[14:47] <Riddell> there are times when you want it to do that though (in which case you have to edit debian/debhelper or whatever it is)
[14:48] <JontheEchidna> maybe it would redo all that if you edited something like that?
[14:56] <Tm_T> hmh, asked in bit wrong channel, so repeat in here: do we have blueprint or wikipage or anything about reasons why KHTML is not enough, as in what doesn't work
[14:56] <Tm_T> and perhaps what is needed from replacement solution
[14:58] <Tm_T> I'm stuck with several browsers myself and would like to be useful while trying to find out which is working best in KDE
[14:59] <Riddell> something that works with complex websites like slashdot and which is sufficiently integrated with KDE
[15:00] <JontheEchidna> webkitkde looks promising, the webkitkde library (not the kpart... yet) is in kdereview
[15:00] <Tm_T> Riddell: hmm, ok, what doesn't work in slashdot? I know there's been issues with google mail and facebook in some cases
[15:00] <rgreening> Riddell: maybe arora with new qt4.6 might cut it this time around....
[15:01] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: no, it's already in kdelibs
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> oh. cool!
[15:01] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: and Kpart seems to work reasonably with Konqueror too
[15:02] <rgreening> qt4.6 with qt webkit brings java support (which was missing from 4.5 and hence our version of arora)
[15:02]  * Sput thinks arora needs to get at least a decent way to open PDF files and stuff that doesn't require saving them somewhere first
[15:02] <rgreening> Sput: yes.. some nicer mime handling would be awesome
[15:03] <Sput> not sucking in plasma when invoked via xdg-open would help too :)
[15:03] <rgreening> Sput: I think that's a qt webkit issue though...
[15:03] <Tm_T> rgreening: Sput: I have Qt 4.6 and Arora built with it, what should I test?
[15:03] <Sput> thats right now my biggest culprits with it
[15:03] <Sput> Tm_T: well, click on a PDF or another file type, I'd expect okular to open, instead I get a download box
[15:03] <Sput> which is *really* annoying
[15:03] <yuriy> facebook works better in Konqueror than it does in Arora actually, except for some crashes which might be fixed in 4.3.3
[15:03] <rgreening> Tm_T: java plugin support... see if java (not javascript) works
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> facebook is slooow in konqueror w/ khtml
[15:04] <rgreening> yuriy: really? I found the opposite...
[15:04] <Sput> and if I click a link in quassel or elsewhere, it's opened in arora, but it stays in the background and plasma's launch indicator spins for half a minute
[15:04] <Tm_T> rgreening: hmm, I cannot remember seeing java in sites I use, have an example?
[15:04] <Sput> other than that, the webkit stuff works for me (trunk of both qt and arora)
[15:04] <rgreening> Tm_T: asobrain (gaming site) try settlers of catan
[15:04] <Tm_T> roger
[15:05] <yuriy> rgreening: really, facebook doesn't work very well in ANY browser, but last i tried FF worked better than Konqi which worked a little better than Arora, but crashed reprodicibly
[15:05] <Tm_T> yuriy: what doesn't work?
[15:06]  * Tm_T thinks we really need a wikipage listing these issues etc
[15:06] <Sput> facebook seems to work fine in arora
[15:06] <yuriy> Tm_T: don't remember exactly, but some of the ajaxy things would just not show up sometimes
[15:06] <Sput> so do the google apps
[15:06] <Sput> (which I use)
[15:06] <rgreening> arora handles gmail better than konq
[15:06] <JontheEchidna> It would be nice if the webkit kpart was ready for 10.04, then we wouldn't have to change default browsers at all
[15:06] <Sput> in fact I haven't had any trouble with any webpage in arora trunk
[15:06] <Sput> it's just the missing KDE integration which makes it a sub-par experience
[15:06] <Sput> I'd try rekonq, but that crashes on startup :)
[15:07] <yuriy> I think I may be the only one, but Arora has been mostly a disappointment for me
[15:07] <JontheEchidna> rekonq is pretty cool, I must say. A bit young though
[15:07] <rgreening> we can probably get shtylman to help add more kde'isms to arora :)
[15:07] <rgreening> haha
[15:07] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: hmm, I'll see if there's known rough spots with Kpart to addition of my simple tests
[15:08] <rgreening> yuriy: I think early arora was an issue. But I have been using it religiously and no issues on my system.
[15:08] <rgreening> qt 4.5 though...
[15:08] <Tm_T> I have rottening hardware so I get some random issues... needs couple times tested
[15:10] <Sput> yeah, just make arora integrate better (or at all) with KDE, at least concerning the things that are really annoying... mime type handling, launch feedback, kget support, stuff like that
[15:11] <Tm_T> Sput: or get Konqueror working better with pages?
[15:11] <Sput> or that
[15:11] <Tm_T> I would love to see both, actually
[15:11] <Sput> but tbh, I don't expect KHTML getting up to par with the current web anytime soon :/
[15:11] <Sput> I really like konqueror as a browser
[15:11] <Sput> but it fails on more and more pages
[15:11] <Sput> can't even watch youtube videos properly because it insists showing a stamp-sized flash window
[15:12] <JontheEchidna> with the webkit KPart we wouldn't have to give up konqueror
[15:12] <Tm_T> Sput: well, as said, you can use webkit with Konqueror too, just isn't ready for everyones use, but getting there
[15:12] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: indeed
[15:12] <Sput> Tm_T: sure, if that's working properly, I'm fine with that :)
[15:12] <Sput> I'm really being pragmatic when it comes to browsers :)
[15:12] <JontheEchidna> which would be a plus in many ways. The least of which being that we don't have to integrate an entire app with KDE while at the same time keeping the status-quo UI-wise
[15:13] <Sput> I'd be glad if someone properly integrated webkit properly in konqueror
[15:13] <Tm_T> duno why but many wikis work "lighter" (well, only feeling, I havent done any measurements) with khtml, I wonder if it's just khtml not doing everything (:
[15:13] <Tm_T> Sput: properly?
[15:13] <Sput> well, e.g. it could remember that I've set it to "show in webkit kpart" :)
[15:13] <Tm_T> Sput: it can, if you set it so
[15:13] <JontheEchidna> you have to change KDE's mimetype handling for it to stick
[15:13] <Sput> didn't work last time I tried
[15:14] <Sput> also it randomly didn't even offer the option until being restarted
[15:14] <Tm_T> Sput: ah, when was that?
[15:14] <Sput> can't compile webkit-kpart currently since it collides with kdelibs, so I can't try now :)
[15:14] <Sput> dunno, few months ago
[15:15] <Tm_T> Sput: ok, I'm running "current trunk" so we'll see if it applies here
[15:15] <Sput> yeah I'm too
[15:15] <Sput> but no webkit-kpart, since it conflicts with the lib that just went into kdelibs
[15:15] <Tm_T> Sput: and all that has been building fine here all the time btw, what issue you have?
[15:15] <Sput> should be fixed soon enough, I hope
[15:16] <Sput> libkdewebkit.so is in kdelibs now
[15:16] <Tm_T> and?
[15:16] <Sput> so it shouldn't be installed by webkit-kpart anymore
[15:16] <Tm_T> yeah, though it's same but yeah
[15:16] <Sput> yeah, prolly just a build system fix
[15:16] <Sput> but bad timing as I cannot try currently :)
[15:17] <Sput> my package manager complains loudly about file collisions, and I don't really feel like turning that off :)
[15:17] <Tm_T> Sput: have to add check to kpart build, which kdelibs one have, and that'll fix it
[15:17] <Sput> would be great
[15:18] <Sput> and appreciated :)
[15:18] <Tm_T> I believe it's left there to make it usable with older kdelibs too so it won't go away just yet, but check if it's needed would do it, hmmmmm
[15:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: do you want us to discuss https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-lucid-bug-triage-policy at UDS ?  do you plan to write it as a spec sometime?
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: the spec wiki page is pretty much done
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidBugTriagePolicy
[15:55] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidBugTriagePolicy
[15:56] <Riddell> is empty
[15:56] <JontheEchidna> where did it go...
[15:56] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/BugTriagePolicyLucid
[15:56] <Riddell> that's the one
[15:57] <Riddell> that's what people get for making up wiki page schemeas without asking me for authorisation :)
[15:58] <skreech> Riddell: Kobby has an open infinote server up if you would like to use it at UDS
[15:59] <Riddell> skreech: I take it kobby still doesn't work with the obby server used by ubuntu?
[16:01] <skreech> It's not intended to I think but I can ask. Obby is engineering a new more flexible forward thinking protocol
[16:01] <skreech> Kobby is intended to use that one
[16:01] <skreech> I'll see if there is a plugin for Obbyx protocol though
[16:09] <Riddell> rgreening: does kubuntu-lucid-touchpad-config need a session at UDS?
[16:09] <Riddell> you seem to have the spec already written so is there anything to discuss?
[16:10] <wstephenson> Riddell: ooh, a touchpad config?
[16:10] <wstephenson> that's something we want to do soon as well.
[16:11] <rgreening> Riddell: I took a stab at the spec... doesn't necessarily mean it's all covered or agreed though.. JontheEchidna, what do you think? Since you have been working with the author of the tp config kcm module
[16:11] <wstephenson> we could cooperate.
[16:11] <Riddell> looks like it needs a UI design.  I don't know what the technical limitations are (spec mentions xinput)
[16:12] <rgreening> wstephenson: initially, I have planned to write a seperate app, though it looks like there is a KDE one ported to now use xinput, trhough not yet upstreamed to KDE...
[16:12] <wstephenson> ok, so not using that old libqsynaptics then
[16:12] <JontheEchidna> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/kcm_touchpad?content=113335 <- the app in question
[16:12] <rgreening> we could colab on ideas...
[16:12] <wstephenson> that's the one we're packagaing atm
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> the spec here still mentions making our own: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Specs/LucidTouchpadConfigKDE
[16:13] <JontheEchidna> perhaps it needs updated?
[16:13] <rgreening> I think we prob should still discuss at UDS. Riddell, if the app linked above can get upstreamed to KDE< then that would be our goal. If it cannot, then we should write something we can upstream to KDE.
[16:14] <wstephenson> gotta dash now, but i'll keep an eye on it
[16:14] <Riddell> rgreening: ok will do
[16:15]  * rgreening hopes we can assist auther in getting the package suitable for upstream into KDE
[16:15] <JontheEchidna> well, it's too late for 4.4 for upstreaming. But on a comment lower down he does say he has interest in getting it into KDE
[16:15] <Riddell> I don't even know what needs configuring, my touchpad works fine :)
[16:16] <rgreening> Riddell: advanced options, multi-touch, sensitivity, you name it...
[16:16]  * JontheEchidna whips up a kcm-touchpad package for revu
[16:16] <rgreening> Riddell: for 90% it prob works ok. ... the other 10%, not so much... and having the ability to fine tune would be useful...
[16:17] <rgreening> also, being able to enable or disable the virtual scrollbar in the tp, and even to enable/disable it for when typing is configuarble...
[16:18] <rgreening> oh, has anyone used daisy plasma applet.. its awesome
[18:07] <Riddell> jussi01: you'll be attending Kubuntu themed sessions at UDS?
[18:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: all implemented
[18:45] <apachelogger> besides, dr. konqi does not have a whole lot with bug triage to do TBH
[18:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: what's implemented?
[18:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: the bug triage policy
[18:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna and started applying the changes some days ago
[18:48] <apachelogger> actually, JontheEchidna did, I just tried to move stuff into the right packages :D
[18:54] <Quintasan> oh hi
[18:55] <ulysses__> Lucid Lynx works \o/ (in Virtualbox)
[18:55] <Quintasan> well, I'm getting back to work when I get my new machine, that would be this Thursday, I assume that deploying a working evn will take less than 2 hours :P
[18:56] <JontheEchidna> plasma is quite crashy in lucid, due to Qt 4.6. I'll assume that it'll away in KDE 4.4
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> but then again it's pre-alpha :P
[18:57] <Quintasan> Qt 4.6 is out?
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> 4.6 beta
[18:57] <Quintasan> ah
[18:57] <Quintasan> hmm just wondering, what's the point of adding my microblogs to Akonadi?
[19:01] <Riddell> jussi01, shtylman: I included you in an e-mail, gmail doesn't like my mail server so check your spam if you havn't got it
[19:02] <Quintasan> Could not install kde-i18n-ru 4:4.3.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1 on mailing list -> I guess it's an overwrite issue once more (russian errors FTW!)
[19:03] <ScottK> skreech and Riddell: I asked and we'll be using the older obby at UDS, so no Kobby.
[19:04] <Quintasan> :/
[19:07] <jussi01> Riddell: which email?
[19:08] <Riddell> jussi01: "Team Kubuntu"
[19:08] <jussi01> Ahh, yeah, I got it, thanks!
[19:08] <jussi01> ScottK: :(
[19:08] <Riddell> jussi01: did it arrive in your inbox or in your spam?
[19:08] <jussi01> inbox
[19:09] <Riddell> oh good, maybe google likes my server now
[19:09] <ScottK> jussi01: The inifinote stuff doesn't exist except in Karmic, so I think it's reasonable so people still on earlier releases can play.
[19:10] <jussi01> ScottK: is there a version of Kobby that plays with that obby?
[19:12] <maco> Riddell: i think "Kubuntu Krew" makes more sense :)
[19:12] <Quintasan> apachelogger: the docs will be still translated in LP or we are moving with them somewhere else?
[19:12] <maco> jussi01: afaik, kobby is only for the new libinfity version
[19:12]  * Quintasan would like to get to upstream translators
[19:13] <maco> shtylman: :P
[19:14] <ScottK> jussi01: No
[19:14] <ScottK> Need to use Gobby still
[19:15] <jussi01> :(
[19:16] <Mamarok> what command tells me the distro version?
[19:16] <jussi01> !version
[19:16] <maco> Mamarok: lsb_elease -a
[19:16]  * maco puts an r in there
[19:16] <Mamarok> thx
[19:16] <skreech> ScottK: Ok cool thanks
[19:17] <Mamarok> thx maco
[19:17] <Mamarok> and jussi01, of course :)
[19:17] <jussi01> :D
[19:17] <skreech> rgreening_: Daisy?
[19:18] <jussi01> Riddell: RE: kubuntu themed, Yes, as long as they fit around my community and ubuntu studio stuff.
[19:18] <jussi01> My community stuff is number one though.
[19:18] <skreech> Quintasan: I think that KDE 4.4 is shipping late so that Qt 4.6 will be out
[19:19] <Quintasan> skreech: rgreening propably means that Daisy plasmoid available in repositories, it's a launcher plasmoid
[19:20] <skreech> ok :-)
[19:23] <rgreening_> ya
[19:23] <rgreening_> I set it up linear and using mach (MAC) stype...
[19:23] <rgreening_> s/stype/style
[19:23] <Quintasan> and it looks awful :S
[19:24] <ScottK> skreech and Quintasan: KDE 4.4 requires Qt 4.6.
[19:25] <skreech> I know but as I recall the KDE 4.4 release was pushed back to accomodate the release of Qt 4.6
[19:25] <Quintasan> I'm looking forward to KDE 4.4, if 4.3 is uber good then 4.4 will rock the world :D
[19:27] <skreech> or at least the cradle that holds the world
[19:27] <Tm_T> also with KDE 4.4, we should have usable Akonadi AND Nepomuk or we don't get all use of it
[19:28]  * Tm_T is not sure what's the situation with Karmic
[19:28] <Tm_T> are those working in Karmic?
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> in karmic you can install the sesame backend and then make a symlink then you'll get a nepomuk server
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> nothing really uses akonadi yet in 4.3
[19:29] <Tm_T> roger
[19:29] <Quintasan> what's the status of virtuoso backend?
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> Word is somebody at Debian is packaging virtuoso, so it should be ready for 4.4
[19:29] <Quintasan> IIRC we can't include sesame cause of Java, right?
[19:30] <JontheEchidna> right. way too big/the backend is non-free by Debian standards
[19:30] <JontheEchidna> Debian/Ubuntu standards
[19:30] <Tm_T> hmm, how it is non-free?
[19:30] <Quintasan> I'm missing a tool to backup your Nepomuk and Akonadi database
[19:30] <JontheEchidna> distributes binaries without source code
[19:31] <Quintasan> It's easy to forget to copy the .kde dir before formatting and after this I'm like "ohshi- I lost all my tags"
[19:31] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: hmmm, the backend contains binary-only ?
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> some of the java bits are binary-only
[19:32] <Tm_T> interesting
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> it would take a feat of packaging to get the source and make it all build. Out of Debian, Kubuntu and Fedora nobody managed to be able to package it in an acceptable manner
[19:36] <Quintasan> How come I have no Kubuntu stickers? Unacceptable!
[19:37] <skreech> Tm_T: Virtuoso ?
[19:37] <Quintasan> skreech: backend for Nepomuk database
[19:38] <Quintasan> skreech: by default we provide redland which consumes even 90% of CPU for some users, quite strange I must say
[19:39] <JontheEchidna> by default we have no nepomuk, and nepomuk refuses to run if it sees redland
[19:39] <Tm_T> Quintasan: it's heavy in every way
[19:40] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: really? I think it works for me :P
[19:41] <Quintasan> so basically redland is a PITA
[19:44] <Sput> I think they made it fail only recently
[19:46] <rgreening> Quintasan: daisy looks ok, once you config things... see my desktop pic.. http://imagebin.ca/view/jyKdN5Ob.html
[19:48] <Quintasan> hell, all ninjas are going to turn into apachelogger?
[19:49] <Quintasan> serouisly, wtf
[19:49] <Quintasan> rgreening: you're lucky enough to have black oxygen :P
[19:49] <Tm_T> Quintasan: er?
[19:51] <Quintasan> Tm_T: Oxygen without desktop effects is dark blue. My radeon sucks at effects so I'm stuck with air :P
[19:55]  * JontheEchidna finds Oxywin's non-composite panel to be better than air's
[19:57] <Tm_T> I use neither of those
[20:03] <rgreening> Im using oxyglass atm
[20:04] <JontheEchidna> My desktop: http://imagebin.ca/view/SRTXbCRn.html
[20:04] <JontheEchidna> I haz an autohidden panel at the bottom with fancytasks in it
[20:05] <JontheEchidna> I would use the fancypanel containment it ships with but it looks crap without compositing
[20:09] <ScottK> To see my desktop, just look at a default install.
[20:09]  * ScottK doesn't really change it.
[20:10] <Tm_T> I wonder what I have from default...
[20:10] <_StefanS_> evening
[20:11] <Tm_T> hi
[20:12] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: why is everyone turning into apachelogger?
[20:12] <apachelogger> doesn't find that a bad thing really :P
[20:13] <Tm_T> apachelogger: I wonder what "turning into apachelogger" even means
[20:13] <apachelogger> well, becoming the ultimate form of kubuntu ninja I suppose :P
[20:14] <_StefanS_> Is anyone else experiencing segfaults from knetworkmanager, plasma and kopete when logging out?
[20:14] <rgreening> _StefanS_: you got the facbook plugin enabled in kopete? that may be why.. was for me
[20:14] <_StefanS_> hmm ok
[20:14] <neversfelde> meh, why did I ever got in touch with koffice :D
[20:14] <_StefanS_> gotta check that
[20:15] <_StefanS_> what about knetworkmanager, any clues?
[20:15] <neversfelde> I love it FTFBS again
[20:15] <rgreening> dunno
[20:16] <_StefanS_> hmm damn..
[20:16] <_StefanS_> it worked before final release :D
[20:16] <apachelogger> neversfelde: why do you make it ftbfs? :(
[20:16] <apachelogger> poor thing
[20:16] <_StefanS_> ick!
[20:16] <_StefanS_> i dont feel like wiping my kde config
[20:18] <neversfelde> apachelogger: you are right, I have to be a nice KDE user and than it will build again
[20:18] <apachelogger> karma is everything
[20:18] <apachelogger> ghostcube: pong
[20:18] <neversfelde> hehe
[20:19] <ghostcube> apachelogger: hi
[20:19] <ghostcube> can u may join #midori
[20:21] <Quintasan> hmm, nice display bug
[20:21] <Quintasan> http://imagebin.ca/view/jpShOVj.html
[20:23] <JontheEchidna> ^That one is fixed in Qt 4.6
[20:25] <Quintasan> hmm Oxyglass is nice
[20:25] <Quintasan> s/glass/win
[20:28] <apachelogger> sebas: does KDE have a written down policy about not bumping Qt requirement in bug fix releases?
[20:29] <apachelogger> Qt version that is
[20:29] <sebas> not that I know, we just don't do that ;)
[20:29] <sebas> not major version, anyway
[20:30] <apachelogger> sebas: k :)
[20:30] <ScottK> Pretty much what I guessed.
[20:31] <Sput> current knetworkmanager needs Qt 4.6 too
[20:31] <Sput> the applet at least
[20:33] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: you should move the "Could not install kde-i18n-ru 4:4.3.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1" thread to kubuntu-users I suppose
[20:33] <ScottK> We'll have 4.6 for Lucid, so no problem.
[20:33] <apachelogger> not exactly a screw up, KDE 3 and KDE 4 localization are just mutually exclusive
[20:33] <ScottK> Quintasan|Szel: That or just fix it.
[20:33] <apachelogger> ScottK: that would mean fixing it for all languages
[20:33] <apachelogger> "fixing"
[20:33] <apachelogger> we are talking PPA here
[20:34] <ScottK> I don't mind if he does that.
[20:34] <apachelogger> also, that fix would trigger updates for everyone, even those that do not even have that problem
[20:34] <apachelogger> which makes me mind :P
[20:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: maybe add pix to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved ?
[20:36] <apachelogger> for every section
[20:37] <apachelogger> oh
[20:38]  * apachelogger is also last step of a support carrier :D
[20:38] <apachelogger> them fancy claydoh always comes up with weird stuff :D
[20:39] <apachelogger> txwikinger: you might want to write something for https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Testing you can use https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Support or https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/GettingInvolved/Development as template structure and what to write :)
[20:42] <Quintasan> apachelogger: world if going to be err.. difficult when we all gonna be apacheloggers :P
[20:43] <apachelogger> yeah, everyone being stubborn and cynical might end badly :P
[20:44] <Quintasan> I vote that https://edge.launchpad.net/~we-love-harald members get t-shirts with "I <3 Harald" printed on front side
[20:44] <apachelogger> Xand3r: ^
[20:44] <apachelogger> get that going right away
[20:44] <apachelogger> Quintasan pays :P
[20:44] <Quintasan> lol
[20:44] <Quintasan> my $70 of allowance wont be enough :P
[20:46] <apachelogger> oh my
[20:52] <Quintasan> hey, did you have stepmania tournament on UDS? :P
[21:07] <Lex79> JontheEchidna: should we merge also oxygen-icons ? http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/trunk/packages/oxygen-icons/debian/control
[21:08] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[21:09] <Lex79> k
[21:11] <skreech> Quintasan: I know i was just asking if we would be doing Virtuoso by default?
[21:11] <ScottK> Probably not by default (won't fit on the CD).
[21:15] <skreech> hw big is virtuoso ?
[21:16] <yuriy> ScottK: we don't already have redland on the CD?
[21:16] <ScottK> Do we?
[21:16]  * ScottK doesn't recall
[21:17] <neversfelde> apachelogger: my karma is not good enough
[21:17] <neversfelde> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/315404/
[21:18] <skreech> lol
[21:18] <skreech> Is the Timelord pdf supposed to be that marked up?
[21:18] <neversfelde> probably someone can help me with this, same package builds in a karmic pbuilder
[21:18] <yuriy> ScottK: I don't know, but if so, and virtuoso is stable, replacing it would make sense
[21:18] <ScottK> yuriy: Agreed.
[21:30] <Quintasan> ScottK: we do have redland by default, and as JontheEchidna mentioned it refuses to work when it sees redland :/
[21:31]  * ScottK nods
[21:31] <Quintasan> I mean Nepomuk refues to work
[21:32] <Quintasan> urgh, just two more days, endure, endure, endure
[21:33] <smarter> JontheEchidna: Is the coding style used in kubuntu-notification-helper yours?
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> smarter: pretty much. harald did the Event class though
[21:34] <smarter> because I absolutely hate it :P
[21:34] <Quintasan> :O
[21:34] <smarter> or rather, the brackets positioning in if/else and the spaces in parentheses thing
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> I would not be against changing it
[21:35]  * apachelogger agrees with smarter!
[21:35] <smarter> I must be too used to read KDE-style code but my brain just hurts when I read that :p
[21:35]  * yuriy is curious -- could start a fun bracket flame war!
[21:35] <apachelogger> way too many spaces
[21:35] <Quintasan> I knew apachelogger would pop out
[21:35] <smarter> oh, great, I'm not alone :)
[21:35] <smarter> hey apachelogger
[21:35] <smarter> (hey everyone even ;))
[21:35] <apachelogger> smarter: I am all for implementing kde code style :D
[21:35] <smarter> okay
[21:36]  * apachelogger hands smarter a cookie and a hug for the way
[21:36]  * smarter uses the magic kdelibs-astyle command
[21:36] <yuriy> I thought kde code style was "use whatever the guy who wrote the original code was using"
[21:36] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: not sure how to put this but it seems they fired you :P
[21:36] <apachelogger> hm
[21:36] <apachelogger> neversfelde: /tmp/buildd/koffice-2.0.91/debian/tmp//usr/share/doc/kde4/HTML/en
[21:36] <smarter> yuriy: well, it's more the kdelibs coding style: http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Kdelibs_Coding_Style
[21:37] <smarter> apachelogger: thanks for the virtual cookie and hug :)
[21:37] <apachelogger> neversfelde: I am pretty sure our docs are actually in /kde/ and not /kde4/
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> I copied the parenthesis style from the kded module I ripped off for this :P
[21:37] <smarter> Quintasan: of course he'd pop out, he's a ninja
[21:37] <neversfelde> apachelogger: yes, I changed that in koffice-doc.install and it builds correctly in a karmic pbuilder
[21:37] <apachelogger> ohhhhhhhh
[21:37] <apachelogger> then
[21:37] <apachelogger> if
[21:38] <apachelogger> we did merge pkg-kde-tools yet
[21:38] <apachelogger> that merge might have gone very wrong
[21:38] <neversfelde> I greped /usr/share/doc/kde4 fpr hours now and there is nothing about it in the install files anymore
[21:38] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that particular kded had all weird structure everywhere :P
[21:38] <apachelogger> well
[21:38] <Quintasan> apachelogger:  and where is our kubotu? :P
[21:38] <apachelogger> neversfelde: what does the buildlog say
[21:38] <apachelogger> do they get make install'd to /kde4/ or /kde/
[21:39] <apachelogger> Quintasan: ask the jussi01
[21:39] <neversfelde> apachelogger: mhh, it is long, what should I search there
[21:39] <neversfelde> would you have a look at it?
[21:41] <apachelogger> urly plz
[21:41]  * apachelogger needs to finish sipping his tea before going to bed anyway
[21:41] <yuriy> hmm i like the kdelibs guidelines too
[21:41] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I can send it via mail
[21:41] <neversfelde> ?
[21:42] <Quintasan> hell, if OOP is basic knowledge of cpp then I'm master of the universe
[21:44] <apachelogger> neversfelde: oh, it fails on your machine?
[21:44] <apachelogger> sure mail is fine
[21:44] <apachelogger> I suppose
[21:45] <neversfelde> apachelogger: on the way
[21:54] <apachelogger> neversfelde: looks like a bad merge to me
[21:54] <neversfelde> apachelogger: bad merge of koffice?
[21:54] <apachelogger> of whatever package contains whatever mk file included in koffice's rules
[21:54] <neversfelde> so pkg-kde-tools?
[21:55] <apachelogger> if that is what is used
[21:55] <neversfelde> /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/qt-kde-team/1/debian-qt-kde.mk
[21:55] <neversfelde> who merged that?
[21:56]  * apachelogger branches branch
[21:56] <apachelogger> hm
[21:57] <neversfelde> Riddell: ?
[21:57] <apachelogger> right
[21:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: please use the packaging branch, and please use the packaging when merging (i.e. merge from the imported git branch on lp)
[21:58] <apachelogger> and please unbreak
[21:59]  * apachelogger needs to go to bed and can not merge upload with branch and branch with debian git branch and fix issue in 1 minute :)
[21:59] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I'll ping Riddell tomorrow
[22:00] <apachelogger> right
[22:00] <apachelogger> 2300 cet
[22:00] <apachelogger> time for bed
[22:00] <apachelogger> nigthies
[22:00] <neversfelde> n8
[22:09] <yuriy> what do you guys think of this? http://apaku.wordpress.com/2009/11/10/dont-install-ubuntu-9-10-if-you-want-a-stable-kdevelop
[22:10] <JontheEchidna> it's not like kdevelop3 is maintained
[22:10] <yuriy> i've been building it from trunk, so that beta, while it seemed nice to have on first thought, has been quite useless
[22:14] <Quintasan> you are using kdevelop4? I though it's not ready for serious development
[22:15] <JontheEchidna> neither is kdevelop3 tbh. All projects fail to build because its unmaintained
[22:16] <smarter> kdevelop4 is the best thing ever
[22:17] <Quintasan> I was using vim all the time but I think it's time to start learning KDE programming so I want to switch to something more KDE oriented :P
[22:17] <smarter> going back to kate and non-semantic highlight is almost painful once you're used to it :p
[22:17] <nhandler> apachelogger: Because I didn't realize that Kubuntu Members were set as the maintainer (should this really be the case?) and able to update the data
[22:22] <Quintasan> urgh, I thought Qt apps == KDE apps but ofc it's not true
[22:22] <Quintasan> So I need to learn Qt first?
[22:41] <yuriy> Quintasan: it's not ready, but it's very nice. the code browsing is incredible, but make system/project management needs a lot of work which won't be done for the first release, and there are some crashes which are getting fixed
[22:42] <yuriy> i'm not really using it, just trying to every few days and then going back to kate/vim/VS2008
[22:43] <JontheEchidna> Also, turns out I reported the kdevelop crash in question over a month ago. It was promptly closed as a packaging bug because he couldn't reproduce it.
[22:43] <Quintasan> urgh, looks like I really need to get OOP tutorial done, while Hello world is easy the second one produces a mindfuck for me :P
[22:44]  * Sput oscillates between KDevelop4 and Qt Creator
[22:44] <Sput> haven't decided yet which one I like more
[22:44] <Sput> also creator is kinda unstable currently
[22:46] <yuriy> the big plus for Qt Creator is the integrated designer
[22:46] <Quintasan> hmm, I get the main.cpp code but the rest is PITA
[22:50] <yuriy> Quintasan: the rest is the fun stuff ;)
[22:50] <Sput> yuriy: meh, could care less if it pops up in a separate window or not
[22:50] <Sput> it's the same thing either way
[22:51] <yuriy> well then, there is no big plus for Qt Creator ;) other than that it's released and "stable"
[22:53] <Quintasan> oh well, almost midnight
[22:53] <Quintasan> time for me
[22:53] <Quintasan> night everyone
[22:56] <Sput> yuriy: I like the UI better than KDev's, but the latter has a much better editor
[22:56] <Sput> creator has better debugger integration
[22:56] <Sput> they should just fusionate :)
[23:02] <yuriy> Sput: debugging was pretty buggy in KDev3, havne't had a chance to try it in 4 yet
[23:24] <shtylman> once you have semantic highlighting.... you never wanna go back