[00:05] chrisccoulson: oh that's why they keep coming the more I close them then [00:05] heh, yep! all the seahorse-plugin crashes are pruned and public now:) [00:10] chrisccoulson: It's quite a bit like in the MMORPGs when you're a noob and you have to kill the poor same defenseless creature an infinite number of time to get xp :) [00:11] lol [00:18] trying to compile GnuCash 2.3.7 and i get this error http://pastebin.com/m35ad6b40 ,,, A GnuCash developer told me the problem is with goffice on Ubuntu side. is this a bug on Ubuntu side? [00:20] chrisccoulson: what about those already mark as dupes ? Invalid and that's all ? [00:21] If they're already marked as duplicates, then they shouldn't be in the list. However, it may be the case that the retracer marked them as a duplicate (with a comment), but someone removed the duplicate link later on [00:22] i'd treat them the same as the others (ie, close them with a comment pointing to the master) [00:24] chrisccoulson: Yes, it's indeed Apport that commented. Well, I'll do this them. Even if Apport already linked to the master. [00:25] delaman: I gotta run, but see if what you have is the same as what is reported here: Bug 448410 [00:25] Launchpad bug 448410 in goffice "libgoffice-0-8 include file conflicts with /usr/include/regexp.h" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448410 [00:25] That points to an upstream (debian) fix. [00:26] mrand: thanks [00:31] hi, linux gamers on ubuntu, with modern USB mouses, will have problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-mouse/+bug/441408 [00:31] Launchpad bug 441408 in xserver-xorg-input-mouse "In fullscreen apps mouse cursor jumps to bottom-right corner when I click" [Undecided,Confirmed] [00:32] can someone set importance level for it? Is it low or medium? It affects gamers, but work around is very easy [00:40] chrisccoulson: Ok, I guess I'm done. [00:40] Narc - excellent, thanks! [00:41] chrisccoulson: You're welcome. Thanks for helping. I'm going now, good debugging. [00:41] we should hopefully upload the fix for that tomorrow [00:43] chrisccoulson: I'd see it and think "Hey, I saw that happening" :) [00:43] Bye, thanks for the help [01:02] LimCore: set, thanks === bibinou_ is now known as bibinou === micahg1 is now known as micahg === YDdraigGoch is now known as Richie [06:25] So, how do I submit a fix for a bug? [06:26] soundconjurer: depends on the package [06:26] usually attach a debdiff and mark as a patch [06:26] well [06:27] I am willing to just pass up a bug I've been seeing quit a bit lately for avid apparmor users in Ubuntu 9.10, concerning firefox. [06:27] which bug? [06:28] firefox we usually propose a merge [06:28] Lately, there have been a lot of posts about firefox not associating torrent files with transmission. [06:29] yes [06:29] I made sure there was a bug for it [06:29] and the security team is subscribed [06:29] but the profile is off by default [06:29] Well I found that it was apparmor's profile that left out [06:29] /usr/bin/transmission Uxr, [06:29] i understand [06:29] not apparmor, but firefox's [06:30] well [06:30] When I tried it with apparmor off [06:30] it worked fine [06:30] bug 476299 [06:30] Launchpad bug 476299 in firefox-3.5 "Firefox apparmor profile does not allow access to transmission" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476299 [06:30] ah [06:30] well, it didn't come is the last update [06:30] apparmor should be left on [06:30] each profile is independent === porthose_ is now known as porthose [09:10] good morning [09:21] hello [09:21] Michalxo: hi [09:21] :-) [09:21] Anyone able to help me? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/429249 ? :-(( [09:22] Launchpad bug 429249 in gnome-power-manager "[Karmic] keyboard locked/freezed unable to type anything" [Undecided,New] [09:22] if someone here looks at it, you will be lucky [09:22] Michalxo: what keyboard is this [09:23] it's laptop [09:23] it should be USB [09:23] i guess [09:23] where can I see it? [09:24] aah laptop sorry [09:24] Michalxo: what laptop [09:24] toshiba a200 [09:24] worked fine with older versions? [09:25] yes [09:25] never happened in 2 years [09:39] indus, have you got anything to help me? :-( [09:45] heLP? :-( [10:05] Michalxo: that bug certainly had lack of interest :( [10:05] but I don't have much clues [10:06] :-( [10:06] where can be a probelm then? [10:06] xorg? gnome? graphics driver? [10:06] maybe see if the configuration files in /etc/X11 have changed between jaunty and karmic (some searching around on the internet) [10:07] * Elbrus doesn't know enough about that too help any further [10:07] s/too/to [10:08] how to reconfigure xorg? [10:08] but you could set the bug to confirmed seeing enough other comments [10:08] sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg ? [10:09] * Elbrus not sure if that had a configure, but after backup you could try [10:10] ok, thanks for help [10:15] System->Preferences->Mouse->General->Mouse Orientation does NOT swap touch pad buttons on a Dell Latitude D620. It did work with KDE. [10:16] youre not the first person ive heard that from [10:16] please file a bug [10:16] Any known workaround or location in configuration files that I may try tweaking? [10:16] maco: you talking to me? [10:16] yes [10:16] it was mentioned by someone on my local lug's mailing list [10:16] i think.. [10:17] ok, fair enough. Any idea what configuration files are involved? [10:18] nope...i think its DE-specific [10:18] im on kde [10:19] maco: yes, with KDE it actually works ... it's just an unfamiliar desktop environment for me, so I'd like to stick to GNOME for now ... and the other neuralgic issue, wireless connection, didn't work with kubuntu. [10:20] 9.04 or 9.10? [10:20] 9.10's wireless *should* actually work [10:21] 9.10's wireless recognized my WAP, but I couldn't quite figure out how to give the correct password in the correct authentication mode. [10:21] Now THAT one worked like a charm with GNOME. [10:24] ah. well, nm-applet can be run inside kde instead of knetworkmanager if you want [10:40] Michalxo: oops sorry had a meeting to attend [10:40] Michalxo: i go again now [11:12] What package should bug report where the user can't mount an ext4 hard drive on his Karmic install, but works fine on Jaunty? 479640 [12:51] hi, how do I get an advocate for a package I uploaded to revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser thanks for any help [12:55] segler, hello, try asking on #ubuntu-motu [12:56] thanks === ogra_ is now known as ogra [13:50] i have a question about duplicates [13:50] does I comment with a standard response before or after marking the bug as a duplicate ? [13:51] if i do it after, will all the now-duplicates of this bug be spammed ? [13:51] by my "ho this is a duplicate" comment [14:29] fwiw, the unsubscribe workaround does not work [14:30] bibinou: if you want to put a "this is a duplicate comment in", then perhaps do it before actually marking the bug as a dup? [14:38] mrand: thanks [14:55] seb128: do you know the "blue video" bug ? [14:55] the nvidia one? [14:55] yes [14:55] there is duplicates all over the place [14:56] and reading the reports, I can't really find the good package to assign to [14:56] as it seems to be a nvidia driver bug [14:56] it's still getting reported, adding more duplicates [14:56] duplicate everything and assign to nvidia [14:56] what about doing a new bug which explain clearly the situation, with the right package [14:57] targeted [14:57] no need to open yet another duplicate [14:57] ok [14:57] just use one of the open set [14:57] i'll try to find a bug with enough info and workarounds [15:05] seb128, if i update the description, adding a workaround, would it be helpful or clutter ? [15:05] oh, he's gone [15:08] bibinou: if you've got a work-around that hasn't been mentioned, I'd add it. And if the description isn't clear enough, feel free to improve it, please! [15:08] Boo [15:09] thanks === marjomercado is now known as marjo [15:12] mrand: is updating bug titles ok ? [15:12] i have a bug which is more to the point bug has a terrible title [15:13] so it doesn't show up in search or when bug reporting [15:15] terrible titles are terrible ;-) The only thing that pops in my head is that sometimes standardized messages (even if they are poor) are in the title to make for easy duplicate identification (esp when automated bugs are generated). But if it is obviously a manually generated title, I'd say have at it. [15:19] errr... i need to change all the duplicates of a specific bug to be allowed to mark this very bug as a duplicate ? === erhesrhsrtb54vyh is now known as Elbrus [15:38] bibinou: I guess you're saying that one bug as a ton of duplicates - and that one bug is not the bug with all the good info? [15:39] yes [15:39] actually there were 4 of there, i did it one by one [15:40] *was [15:53] I wanted to report a bug that I think I found and couldn't find in bug report. [15:54] So... a new bug. [15:54] Yeah I believe so. [15:54] What's it a bout and what problems did you have with reporting it [15:55] How do I report if I think I found a bug? I went to bugs.launchpad.net [15:55] I was running search there but couldn't find it [15:55] so I think I should report it? [15:55] Launchpad is a very broad site, it hosts not only Ubuntu, but also a lot of other projects. [15:56] You could use a command to launch a graphical program that will guide you through the process or you could use the web interface. [15:56] Ubuntu has it's Launchpad page at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu [15:56] has its* [15:56] Its Bugs page is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu [15:57] added it - thanks [15:57] The preferred method, if possible, is to use ubuntu-bug [15:58] you're welcome [15:58] yes, that is true. More information for us means a shorter life for the bug. [15:59] Hopefully at least.. === yofel_ is now known as yofel [15:59] stay positive! [16:02] dont we have a team meeting? [16:02] Hi, yes! [16:02] at this channel? [16:02] according to bdmurray's mail, yeah, here [16:02] qense: yes [16:02] ooo im actually present for once [16:02] hi :) [16:03] The agenda for the meeting is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting [16:03] well, I'll stay around in that case [16:03] micahg: You seem to have the 1st point on the agenda. Are you ready? [16:03] yeah [16:04] I am here also [16:04] hi folks [16:04] howdy. I'll be in and out. [16:04] ok, the main idea is to have people adopt packages so that there is coverage for at least the major packages in Ubuntu [16:05] bdmurray: you ran this 2 months ago: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/MainPackagesWithoutBugSubscribers [16:06] micahg: right, those are good candidates for adoption [16:07] it can also help for mentoring if people in -control can adopt packages, then bugsquad members have someone they can ping for the quirks in the package [16:08] With a clearly visible and easily accessible list? [16:09] qense: Do you mean like a wiki page? [16:09] is this the current mentors page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors [16:09] we already have some mentor page, but something more clear and more linked-to would that, yeah [16:10] That's this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/AdoptPackage [16:10] I've adopted some of them, but the explanation on the page says you should move along once done. This is maybe not the prefered method for important packages, which probably should have more than one step parent. [16:11] well, mentors and package adopters don [16:11] 't necessarily have to be the same [16:11] It would be good though if we'd make the adopter the contactsperson for his/her pacakge. [16:12] would it be possible to get a page similiar to the 'witoutBugSubscribers' page that lists how many people are subscribed to a package? There probably are package that have maybe 1 or 2 subsribers that might not read the mails anymore [16:13] yofel: that might be possible, I thought a good first target was the ones w/o any subscribers [16:13] I think it would be better to let people adopt pacakages themselves and base the new list on teh current list on the wiki. [16:14] Generating it from Launchpad is not what I would suggest. [16:14] bdmurray: true, they need to be looked at first [16:15] Just rerun the previous script? [16:15] We could start something nice around it, like 5 A Day. [16:15] definition of nice: buttons and stuff [16:16] micahg: anything more? [16:16] for that issue, no I don't think so [16:16] hggdh: did I miss anything? [16:17] hum [16:17] I remember jcastro was working on something along the lines of package adoption [16:17] yeah, upstream ambassadors [16:18] and dholbach is looking at "adopt an upstream" type stuff [16:18] but one upstream can have multiple packages so its not necessarily the same thing right? [16:18] sort of, yes. One source package can have multiple binaries [16:19] well, not really tied to a specific package. You could do "I am the guy who cares about foo, foo-backend1, foo-backend2" or whatever [16:19] usually they would be under the same adopters [16:19] hggdh: no I mean gnome has hundreds of packages [16:19] I think bdmurray meant like b.g.o has a lot of upstream packages [16:19] yes ;-) [16:19] i think is more like an upstream program, rather than a whole upstream project like gnome for example [16:19] right [16:19] You could adopt the task of sending the bugs of one source package upstream. [16:19] That would make it more bearable. [16:19] oh, yes, we should be limited to individual packages upstream [16:20] e.g., I have a good contact with Gnome on evo, but not on gtk [16:20] Adopters of large packages could divide tasks between themselves, a special person for sending the Nautilus bugs upstream. [16:20] as opposed to, say, pedro_, who has contacts everywhere in Gnome ;-) [16:20] yeah [16:20] hggdh, shh dont' say it out loud :-P [16:21] jcastro, are you planning to have a session about that on UDS? [16:21] We shouldn't forget upstream nr. 1, GNOME, is just a bunch of different projects anyway. [16:21] i know that we're supposed to have a review on adopt an upstream project but don't remember about the ambassadors [16:21] pedro_, yeah, dholbach will have some too [16:21] \o/ [16:21] perhaps this is a good point to discuss at UDS [16:22] sounds like it [16:22] totally [16:22] it is, because I don't have time right now, heh [16:22] haha [16:22] basically, it's just a person who is a bridge [16:22] upstream knows who their "person at ubuntu" is [16:22] but you also required this person to be an Ubuntu member [16:22] jcastro: that's not a very good sell ;-) [16:23] and they weed out the garbage bugs, make sure the good ones are forwarded [16:23] bdmurray, it works way better in real life. [16:23] plus it doesn't have to be one person [16:23] for example I know if I have a banshee problem that "our guys" are directhex and hyperair. [16:23] requiring Ubuntu Members for important upstreams isn't such a bad idea, but I wouldn't make it mandatory for all upstreams [16:24] so if major packages in ubuntu had that then we could do a better job making sure good bugs don't get lost, etc. [16:24] I don't think membership has anything to do with it [16:24] qense: now watch upstreams get upset theyre not important enough to have a Member ambassador [16:24] maco: that's their problem [16:24] I doubt pure upstreams would care about becoming ubuntu members [16:24] indeed [16:25] but I think we digress right now [16:25] okay, so it sounds like we'll talk about the integration of adopt-a-package / upstream ambassadors at uds [16:25] Sounds good [16:26] Next we have "stuff for UDS attendees to chase down" [16:26] lobby at the Launchpad devs for better distribution/version distinction support in the bug tracker? [16:26] So some of us are going to UDS next week and it is a good time for us find out answers to specific questions etc... as we will have face time with some of the developers. [16:27] ask the developers what they want Apport to give them [16:27] I'm curious what if anything people want to find out. [16:27] qense: for package hooks? [16:27] yes [16:27] Are they happy with the current information? Do they miss stuff? [16:28] bdmurray: we could go and really discuss sanitising the backtraces [16:29] okay, those are all noted [16:29] another one would be the next point in this meeting [16:29] I think we should consider changing the default from auto-subscribe on bugs to an option on the LP profile [16:29] there'll also be some launchpad devs at uds - qense did you have something? [16:30] bdmurray: More a suggestion that could make our life easier: better distinction between the different versions of the applications and the different releases of Ubuntu the bugs apply to. [16:31] like a "versions affected" and "releases affected" lists? [16:31] I believe that the assumption is that every bug applies to the latest version of the software as they don't magically go away. [16:31] yes [16:31] What if they apply to an LTS? [16:32] bdmurray: the problem with this view is that we lose track of older versions [16:32] But not to the latest stable and development releases? [16:32] Don't forget the non-LTS releases that are still supported but not brand-new anymore. [16:33] Maybe versions affected, next to releases affected, is a bit too much, but just releases affected would be great. [16:33] Okay, I've noted that too. [16:33] well, it would be better than what we currently have, yes [16:34] Problem: marking bugs as fixed in one release when it's not fixed in the others yet. [16:35] thanks [16:35] qense: can you elaborate with the fixing in one release bit? [16:36] What if you fix a bug in Lucid with a new version, but that doesn't fix it in older Hardy. [16:36] that sounds like an SRU to me [16:36] According to the current work flow that should be Fix Released. [16:36] yes, but that means the bug is not yet fixed in hardy, which it is marked as affecting. [16:37] should an SRU be more flexible with an LTS? [16:37] qense: for "marking bugs as fixed in one release when it's not fixed in the others yet." thats why youhave "nominate for release" [16:37] not really, no -- SRUs are always dangerous [16:38] Are there guidelines for nominate for release on the wiki? [16:38] I think what qense is suggesting is some sort of automatic "nominate for reported release" [16:38] well, anyone can nominate [16:38] which, actually, makes sense [16:39] which could be parsed out of the stuff apport auto-inserts [16:39] yes, anyone can nominate. But right now this requires an user action -- which tend not to happen since users are sort of afraid of requesting this type of thing [16:39] not necessarily, wishlist bugs shouldn't necessarily get nominated for the same release [16:39] then the triager/resolver can refuse it [16:39] :-) [16:39] hggdh: you'd be surprised how many bugs get nominated [16:39] hggdh: nope, only devs can refue [16:39] *refuse [16:40] Nominated for Release is probably the best tool to do it with. But maybe its name is not very well chosen for that. [16:40] qense: it is the right tool because that is what leads to the release task [16:40] The plot thickens. Perhaps this shoul dbe looked at also [16:40] It is not bad if we'd have to change the release nominated for, but if the older one has to stay with status Invalid it gets a bit full. [16:41] one thing people tend to forget is that a BTS is a live thing -- it evolves, and changes [16:42] what's a BTS? [16:42] Bug Tracking System [16:42] ah, of course, thanks [16:43] bdmurray: no kidding. There's currently 845 nominees for karmic alone. [16:43] If we want to use nomination more frequently someone should start incorporating it in the documentation. First UDS, or is everything already there? [16:44] no, I do not think nomination can be used more right now, with only devs being able to accept/reject [16:44] There are some fundamental issues with nominations that make them not a good idea for widespread use [16:45] Particularly, it is not possible for someone to renominate a bug [16:45] in that case we probably should make a list of problems and submit it at the UDS [16:45] Maybe documenting what kind of bugs (not new ones) should be nominated would help though [16:46] yes, I think so [16:47] hggdh: you had an agenda item also right? [16:47] bdmurray: yes. [16:47] If there are other ideas of things to "chase down" please send an e-mail to the bugsquad mailing list [16:47] I think we should revisit the default opt-in for duplicate bugs, but we could also discuss this at UDS [16:48] LP is doing nothing but throwing timeouts at me right now, so I can't read the bug that started the default-subscribe-to-duplicates-porblem What was the problem? [16:48] spam email on every new duplicate, to every subscriber [16:48] ;] [16:49] as in spam or as in useless notifictions from LP? [16:49] most of the reporters only wanted to help Ubuntu with a problem they suffered, and suddenly are in the middle of a spamfest [16:49] as in useless email from LP [16:49] that's not really comforting if you just had a computerproblem [16:49] and it makes users not willing to report new issues [16:50] there are some different options to tackle this [16:51] (1) no more "default" opt-in on duplicates; instead an option to do so [16:51] no email generated by actions from specific user accounts (more difficult to do, not really nice) [16:51] hggdh: wrt that point how would that work as these are likely first time lp users? [16:52] bdmurray: ideally, we would move from opt-out to opt-in as a first approach [16:52] we could also let people block system notifications and status changes [16:52] I'd love to have a some kind of "mute" option on the report , so only devs and bugcontrol members could comment there, so no extra email from lp or +1 from other reporters only important info [16:52] and being able to un mute that if you're requesting for testing for example [16:52] * pedro_ dreaming [16:53] two separate lines? one for the devs and triagers and one for the reporters? [16:53] if we are going to dream... ability to delete useless comments (like "me too") [16:53] in that case we could separate technical and non-technical speak, making it a nicer place for tech-afraid-humans [16:54] we could even wrap the reporter part in a separate interface [16:54] hggdh, or comments with bad words, yes, yes please :-) [16:54] can we come back to earth now? [16:54] away from complex launchpad with its multiple projects [16:54] aww cmon, maco, it was getting nice :-) [16:55] but yes, we are dreamin. Nice trip, though. Back to earth [16:55] right now we have some few 100s of users pissed, and a bug we cannot edit [16:56] I really suggest to move to explicit opt-in [16:56] that would be a good first move [16:56] (which means a new LP bug, of course) [16:56] hggdh: I think this wouldn't have normally happened though. It was an unfortunate side effect of apport being enabled. [16:57] indeed, but it still points to what I see as a failure in the system [16:57] agreed [16:57] the reporters should get less information they can't do anything with [16:57] it only confuses them [16:58] (and angers) [16:58] yes [16:58] I imagine there are quite a few more unmarked duplicates of various bugs wehre we could end up in a similar situation. Does anyone have an idea of how we should treat those bugs? [16:59] Not mark as duplicate and just invalidate? [16:59] is there a way of finding the bugs with the largest # of duplicates? [17:00] They could be of help to us later on, so sending them away with Invalid doesn't seem right to me. [17:00] hggdh: yes, bdmurray has a reprt. [17:00] hggdh: why yes ;-) [17:00] report even [17:00] not sending "hey a new dup!" emails could work nicely [17:00] yes [17:00] what do i care that someone else filed the same bug as me? [17:00] all you need to know is the base bug # [17:01] I'm all for opt-out by default. [17:01] and apport could trigger the "mee too" [17:01] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/launchpad-database/bugs-with-most-duplicates.html [17:01] that's a bit out of date though [17:02] and I myself was busy the other day creating duplicates of a series of Evolution-data-server crashes... [17:02] qense: if not invalid and not a duplicate they'll clutter the bug lists though [17:02] we'll have to choose what we rather want [17:03] well, LP wants to change +metoo to auto-subscribe === micahg1 is now known as micahg [17:03] we are lost :-( [17:04] they cannot do it before resolving the sql issue with timeouts (I hope) [17:04] I'd say: Subscribe when you want, when you come from a duplicate. +metoo when you want, when you com from a duplicate, but not Subscribe when you +metoo [17:04] pedro_: hi... when you are closing old bugs when users havent responded , could you also kindly close the papercuts task too? ex: Bug #393082 [17:04] Launchpad bug 393082 in file-roller "Extract archive with more context-menu options" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393082 [17:04] hggdh: bug 330550 [17:04] Launchpad bug 330550 in malone "Affects Me Too should also subscribe" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/330550 [17:05] mac_v, sure [17:05] pedro_: thanks :) [17:05] micahg: thanks [17:05] all post negative responses to bug 330550! spam it with +menots! [17:05] Launchpad bug 330550 in malone "Affects Me Too should also subscribe" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/330550 [17:05] micahg: i asked the lp folks , regarding that bug , they said that it is most likely to be fixed this week [17:06] on edge or live? [17:06] most likely edge as they do monthly rollouts to prod [17:06] ok [17:08] well an easy way out of for LP *NOT* to generate email on adding/removing (duplicates|subscribers) [17:08] s/of/is/ # ugh [17:10] is this issue now handled? [17:11] Did anyone add a comment to that spam bug so that users can easily unsubscribe from it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse-plugins/+bug/429322/+subscribe [17:11] well we have some ideas of how to deal with it [17:11] Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed] [17:11] I guess so. We have a good idea of what to try [17:12] unsubscribe without having to visit the bug page, I mean. [17:12] mrand: many comments on how to get out were added, yes [17:12] I receive all of them ;-) [17:12] ok. Can't read them since it isn't responsive :-| [17:12] hggdh: how about bug 418659 [17:12] Launchpad bug 418659 in malone "Reporting duplicate bugs leads to receiving notifications for every duplicate of the original bug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/418659 [17:13] great micahg! We can now pester the LP devs on this [17:14] next item? [17:15] Maybe someone should post our answer to this issue in that bug report to make the LP devs aware of our stance? [17:15] hggdh: that's it for specific agenda points [17:15] next item: Open Discussion, or we could do the proposed topics [17:16] aren't we running out of time? the meeting duration is only an hour [17:16] yes, we are. Leave the rest for next meeting? [17:16]