=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
Ahmuck-Jrsomeone mentioned a way to prevent classmates from crossing into other user's home directories11:42
alkisgAhmuck-Jr: sudo dpkg-reconfigure adduser11:45
Ahmuck-Jralkisg: thank you11:51
Ahmuck-Jrthat was soooo easy11:51
nubaeoh man... linked.in could be really cool, if there was data in every place14:05
nubaebut as it stands other than having loads of mmembers is a bit of a ghost town14:06
nubaesome are allirght I guess, but lets take gnu/linuxjobs14:07
nubaeu'd expect that to be a big group right14:07
nubaea d I'm sure it has lots of members14:07
nubaehag, ok I picked the wrong one14:09
nubaemy point is there are a ton of groups on there with no data and no info,they just mke globally visible when there are a certain nuber of members or somethin....14:10
nubaebah... forget it... talking out my ass....14:10
mhall119|worknubae: we have an Ubuntu Florida Team group in LinkedIn, where we post local jobs14:46
nubae__and it works?14:57
mhall119|workseems to15:01
mhall119|workwe don't get that many15:01
mhall119|workwe're still trying to promote participation15:01
=== nubae is now known as Nubae
highvoltagegood afternoon!15:46
sbalneavhighvoltage: Not in canada yet, eh?15:59
sbalneavGot your touque yet?15:59
highvoltagesbalneav: it will probably be another 5 weeks or so at minimum, I have to wait another 2 weeks for police clearance, and then it will probably be another 3 weeks until my visa is processed16:00
highvoltagesbalneav: what's a touque? :)16:00
highvoltage18:00 < Spinach> highvoltage: toque n 1: a tall white hat with a pouched crown; worn by chefs 2: a small round woman's hat [syn: {pillbox}, {toque}, {turban}]16:00
highvoltagesbalneav: as in that?16:00
highvoltagemust be a Canadian thing :)16:01
sbalneavhighvoltage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Canada16:05
sbalneavI'll be testing you.16:05
highvoltagesbalneav: aaaah! over hear they're called beanies :)16:05
highvoltagesbalneav: but I'll bring mine along and get some more that side :D16:05
highvoltagesbalneav: yeah I'll be needing some good primers on Canadian culture :)16:05
highvoltageI know a lot of Blink 182 songs if that counts16:06
sbalneavI'll want a 500 word essay on the "group of seven" by tomorrow.16:06
sbalneavAnd don't forget your term paper on Louis Riel.16:07
sbalneavClass dismissed16:07
highvoltagesbalneav: eek! I didn't know there was going to be homework involved!16:07
highvoltagesbalneav: hmm, I think they make fun of Bob and Doug on Southpark16:07
highvoltageI've also watched every episode of How I Met Your Mother where the one person is Canadian and they make fun of her, so I know how to say things like "How's it goin', eh?"16:08
highvoltageand that you pronounce "about" as "aboot"16:08
sbalneavooot and abooot16:09
sbalneavYou'll do fine.16:10
sbalneavWear a touque, drink good beer, and always tack "eh" on the end of a question.16:10
sbalneav"How's it goin' eh?16:10
sbalneavI think so17:19
alkisgWhen? Now?17:20
sbalneavUmm, in 40 minutes, if my time calculations are correct.17:21
Nubaehere or sugar-meeting17:28
Nubaedoh ubuntu-meeting17:31
sbalneavubuntu meeting17:31
jbichagrr..I'm gonna fall asleep before this meeting gets going, I should have taken a nap today18:51
=== alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
LaserJockhighvoltage: here?19:43
highvoltageLaserJock: #ubuntu-meeting19:44
stgraberdinda: will you be at UDS ?20:09
LaserJockI can't imagine the benefits of using OBS would outweigh the significant hurdles20:09
dindastgraber: only for Wed & Thursday20:09
stgraberdinda: doh, you'll miss the edubuntu session on friday then :(20:10
dindastgraber: I just subscribed to the specs  - any chance we can move those sessions up?20:11
stgraberdinda: probably, you can try nagging Jorge, I think he's the one who initially scheduled them on Friday20:11
dindastgraber: ok, I'll mark myself as being 'essential' so that my help move them up20:12
jbichaNubae: reconstructor.org could eventually be a suse studio alternative for Ubuntu users (try before you download is not implemented yet, it can be expensive if your download gets interrupted, and some bugs still)20:12
dindastgraber: if not I can participate remotely20:12
stgraberdinda: I think the UDS scheduler is supposed to have some magic so marking you as essential moves the session to a day where you're there20:14
stgraberdinda: assuming you entered the correct dates on LP20:14
dindastgraber: yip, just those two days, not the full week20:15
dindaflying in early Wed morning so prolly won't get to hotel until about 9:30 am20:15
mhall119|workhighvoltage: what's the meeting's topic?20:22
highvoltagemhall119|work: it has multiple, the agenda is up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda20:23
highvoltagemhall119|work: we're having an impromptu EC meeting now for Nubae's membership20:23
highvoltagemhall119|work: I think you may have missed the part where we said that20:23
mhall119|workprobably, I just got back from lunch and saw you guys talking about linux-for-education and ubuntu-learning20:24
Ahmuckis there a way to close user directories off from other users?20:24
sbalneavNubae: You can help me here when we're done in -mmeting20:26
mhall119|workAhmuck: change their permissions20:29
Nubaeok tell me20:30
Nubaemhall119|work, there must be an auto way20:30
Nubaeif I'm lucky I will be in SA heling Hilton out in January...20:32
sbalneavso, I have my  own sabayon git repo...20:32
Nubaeyeah at github?20:33
sbalneavI'm out of sync with upstream20:33
sbalneavhow do I resync?20:33
Nubaeso  pull first20:33
Nubaethen push20:33
jbichaAhmuck: try the instructions on https://help.ubuntu.com/9.10/serverguide/C/user-management.html20:33
sbalneavso git pull git://gin.gnome.org/sabayon?20:34
Nubaeif thats how u have it set up, mine is git.sugar.org/projects/myproject20:35
Nubaegoing into .git and checking your config sometimes helps too20:36
Nubaeactuallly just git pull should be enough20:36
Nubaeit should know the rest20:36
sbalneavNubae: I've pm'd you20:36
sbalneavwith the error20:37
LaserJocksbalneav: I have a great little git script to do what you want I think20:39
sbalneavpastie pastie thankee thankee20:40
Nubaedid LaserJock script work?20:44
sbalneavhold on, got 95+ things happening simultaneously :)20:46
Nubaedarn what was that distro called20:52
Nubaeit had all these kiddie big icons on the desktop wallpaper20:52
mhall119|workthere was a Debian Jr project20:52
Nubaebut basiclaly almost no content20:53
highvoltageDebian Jr is still going afaik20:53
mhall119|workhighvoltage: as individual packages, I don't think they're making a CD anymore20:53
stgraberdinda: so, what's up ?20:53
mhall119|workthere was another one I found that had been abandoned as well20:54
dindaI had a meeting a few weeks at Canonical about Edubuntu and the future of Ubuntu in Education. . .20:54
highvoltagemhall119|work: did they ever?20:54
mhall119|workhighvoltage: I think they did a few years ago20:54
dindaI asked that they make some clearer statements about the direction of the projects20:54
highvoltagemhall119|work: afaik the actual builds are done by skolelinux/debian-edu20:55
dindaso some good and some good not so good news20:55
dindagood news - there is a renewed effort starting in all things Education-related20:55
highvoltagedinda: I really appreciate your educational advocacy from withing canonical :)20:55
dindabut not for several more months at the earliest20:55
dindanot so good news - they really see no need to toss any funding towards packaging or other distro-level things - at this point20:56
highvoltagedinda: we're ok with that20:56
dindajust no resources at the moment20:56
dindain regards to laserjock's inquiry about official support. ..20:57
highvoltagedinda: I think we've made peace with canonical not providing any more resources than the hosting, building, etc20:57
dindawe weren't sure if the hesitation on the part of our Support team was b/c of the ltsp component or b/c of the additional packages20:57
mhall119|workship-it dvds would be nice20:57
dindaso we're investigating that20:57
highvoltagedinda: the challenge is to show that Edubuntu can survive as a purely community project, I think it has the potential to do so20:57
dindanow that ltsp is in the server stack, it can be supported but only for server20:58
highvoltagedinda: ah, thanks for getting the clarification on that20:58
highvoltage(LaserJock I'm not sure if you're reading this)20:58
Nubaearghhh what was it called again20:58
mhall119|workmy wife found a nice Python programming game called RURples, that I plan on packaging up20:58
mhall119|worksomeone in the Florida LoCo is helping me with the packaging details20:59
dindahighvoltage:  yes, as a community project, i think you folks have picked up things nicely20:59
dindaI definitely think there will be renewed efforts from Canonical in the Education area soon. . .20:59
dindabut at the moment they (we)  :)  we trying to find a workable business model around all of it21:00
highvoltagedinda: as long as they don't appoint people as our leaders and strip the community from making decisions again I don't think any of use would complain21:00
stgraberdinda: I guess the biggest issue we had for a while was actually Canonical being involved in Edubuntu (with far from good results), so being able to manage our project the way we want it again, is good :)21:00
stgraberI'm of course not against having Canonical giving an hand, far from that, I just hope it'll be done the right way next time.21:00
dindawe're seeing seeing lots of large efforts where education deployments are asking for custom application stacks21:01
dindaso looking at the application stack and if it makes sense to offer official support on selected apps is something long-term where some overlap could occur21:02
dindabut for the most part it seems to make sense to leave edubuntu as a full community project and then for Canonical to focus on the Ubuntu in Education plans21:03
LaserJockdinda: frankly it's kinda weird that LTSP would be only supported in the Server stack21:03
LaserJockit is a *desktop* server21:03
LaserJockso it's a server technology that utilized Desktop21:03
LaserJockbut that's details I guess ;-)21:03
highvoltageLaserJock: I guess they'd only support the LTSP parts, dhcpd, tftpd-hpa, etc21:04
LaserJockright, that's fine21:04
LaserJockbut we *never* get a list of what's supported and what's not21:04
highvoltageLaserJock: and then the end-user would probably be expected to have the desktop portion on another machine21:04
LaserJockI don't care what bits are, we just need some knowledge we can pass on to users21:04
dindaLaserJock: yeah, not sure fully how much support we can offer on ltsp atm21:04
LaserJockfrankly I'd rather Canonical *not* declare support for Edubuntu21:05
LaserJockas they've totally sucked at doing it thus far21:05
highvoltageto be frank I don't think most of our users care all that much how long Canonical supports a subset of the packages21:05
LaserJockI'd rather them not claim it if they aren't going to put resources into it21:05
dindaLaserJock:  understood21:05
highvoltagefrom my interaction they want bugfixes and features and they want it fast21:05
stgraberhighvoltage: right, if they do, then they'll get a support contract with Canonical for the subset of packages they use21:06
dindaLaserJock: but we're seeing deployments now that are asking for support and it's mostly for a customized Ubuntu, not Edubuntu21:06
LaserJockdinda: that's fine, but Edubuntu is 99% Ubuntu21:06
highvoltagedinda: what's the difference?21:06
LaserJockdinda: so why can't our 99% be supported and leave the 1% non-supported21:06
dindaLaserJock: that's what we're looking into - it was our support team that told us they can't support at the moment21:07
Nubaethe thing is, there will come a time when sales of netbooks reach a point where canonical will jump in and care21:07
dindai think it's that they don't have time to be experts on those apps atm21:07
LaserJockthe thing that troubles me is the total lack of communication21:07
Nubaehence their arm based distro21:07
LaserJockthankfully dinda has been around21:07
LaserJockor we'd know absolutely nothing21:07
dindaLaserJock: trust me, that has bothered me too :)21:07
NubaeLaserJock, +521:07
dindaeven my role is unofficial atm21:08
LaserJockeven after mdz and Mark told us they'd have quick responses21:08
highvoltageyeah dinda has been great communicating educational things on the lists as well21:08
Nubaewell, I had someone contact me a couple of times about doing the moodle stuff...21:08
LaserJockif Canonical wants to find a business model around Edu why don't they talk to people who are trying to do that right here?21:08
Nubaeafter couple of emails21:08
dindabut just know that everyone's ears have suddenly pricked up about education21:08
Nubaedied off21:08
Nubaeand that seems to happen with everything21:09
dindait just mostly been a lack of resources21:09
LaserJockI think Edubuntu people are fairly eager to help out Canonical21:09
stgraberdinda: that was also the feeling I had last time I was at Montreal's office speaking with Steve George ;)21:09
LaserJockheck, I gave 2 years and almost a PhD to Canonical ;-)21:09
stgraberdinda: first time I see him and he starts speaking of Edubuntu :)21:09
LaserJockbut what we'd like is the opportunity to work with Canonical and be partners rather than cheap labor21:09
dindastgraber: well i started pointed out just how many education-related deployments and training customers we're getting, folks started to notice :)21:10
Nubaewell, we should have at least one community spokesperson21:10
NubaeCanonical backede21:10
LaserJockdinda: anyway, thanks so much for what you're doing, it really is invaluable21:10
LaserJockI don't want to discourage you from pushing on or anything21:11
dindathere's also an issue of not quite knowing where in the company to put Education21:11
highvoltageLaserJock: I think you place too much value on getting recognition from Canonical. for me I just want that from our users.21:11
Nubaeoh, I guess I missed somthing here21:11
LaserJockhighvoltage: well, I see it as a mutually beneficial relationship21:11
LaserJockI want to get Edubuntu into places where only Canonical can go21:11
highvoltageLaserJock: oh absolutely21:12
dindait was/is currently in OEM services so we've mostly been looking at working with hardware/device manufacturers21:12
LaserJockEdubuntu needs resources it doesn't really have21:12
LaserJockbut we gotta have communication21:12
LaserJockdinda: yeah, we *totally* should have an Edubuntu Netbook Remix21:12
LaserJockdinda: people have been clamoring to get netbooks for 1:1 education21:12
LaserJockbut there does seem to be an issue with finding a place for Education to live21:13
highvoltageLaserJock: there's only so much we can do as a community though, I'm not going to spend time volunteering and going out of my way to make Canonical lots of money when all they'll do is say something like "Oh we're so great look at what we've done and oh yes, btw, we have this little community kind of helping us out a little too"21:13
Nubaewow.. I found the piece of crap: http://www.jux-net.info/juxlala/21:13
sbalneavLaserJock: don't use xchat.  Use irssi.  It's text based, which means you can do like I do, and run it under screen.  Leave it running on your home box, then you can ssh into your box, re-attach to the screen session.21:14
sbalneavit kicks so much butt21:14
LaserJockhighvoltage: sure, I'm just saying it's much better for us to be partners rather than isolated communities doing the same thing21:14
dindayeah, b/c if you look at the full lifecycle of an educational deployment it needs to be all the way from the device being built to the end user training and usage21:14
highvoltageLaserJock: I think you're preaching to the converted21:14
LaserJockdinda: yeah, I'm not sure why there can't be just some sort of Education advocate or something21:14
Nubaethats why I really wanna toy with telepathy21:14
LaserJockdinda: somebody who runs the spectrum of Canonical teams just making sure that community-developed stuff is being utilized and being a liaison21:15
dindaLaserJock: so you're almost saying it should be someone on Jono's team?21:15
LaserJockdinda: it seems like that one person could drive up sales in the education market fairly easily21:15
Nubaecanonical has no realisation the comercial value of telepathy21:15
LaserJockdinda: pretty much yeah21:15
Nubaeit is a goldmine21:15
dindaI'm looking at some hybrid options b/c there is definitely a market for getting ubuntu into more schools. . .21:16
Nubaewow... imagine a reliable, multicasting, encryptable, application sharable, video audio and chat and all at the same time controlled by super scalable servers21:17
dindabut resources are tight21:17
highvoltageNubae: yes we get it, telepathy is cool21:17
LaserJockdinda: well, "resources are tight" only goes so far21:18
LaserJockthere are millions of school kids out there21:18
LaserJockhundreds of thousands of schools21:18
Nubaeheh, I told the guys in #telepathy I was gonna start getting some ass kicicking for mentinoing it too much :-_)21:18
LaserJockand Canonical can't spare 1 position?21:18
dindayeah, I know and currently no one focusing on that21:18
LaserJockbut can hire a whole new team of UI designers?21:18
dindaalso, I don't really see any community of Education Users (teachers, students) who are using Ubuntu atm21:19
LaserJockthat's irrelevant21:19
dindaI'd love to see that aspect come into its own21:19
dindawe know they are out there, but getting their stories has not been easy21:19
LaserJockI think a great many people on edubuntu-users are running Ubuntu + LTSP21:19
LaserJockyou can install Ubuntu from the Edubuntu DVD21:20
LaserJockUbuntu and Edubuntu shouldn't be competing21:20
LaserJockit's a matter of what flavor fits the situation21:20
highvoltageLaserJock: I think canonical tried hiring a person for that and they burned their fingers a bit, so to speak21:20
stgraberdinda: I can probably help you with that as my company (and now highvoltage's) does large scale deployment of LTSP and ubuntu with education (canada + US) being our main market21:20
alkisgdinda: here's the small Greek teachers community that uses Ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/~linux.sch.gr21:21
alkisg...but we mostly gather in local forums21:21
LaserJockdinda: but the fact that a lot of people are using Ubuntu in schools and not Edubuntu is due to many reasons21:22
LaserJocksome of which are soundly Canonical's problems21:22
LaserJockyou can't pull the rug out from under a community and then argue that they aren't doing enough21:22
dindaright now education is just another sector in overall sales, so any sales leads go into the larger pile with no dedicated resources21:23
highvoltageLaserJock: I think dinda gets that21:23
sbalneavWell, especially when the rug was too small to begin with i.e. "we'll give edubuntu 1 year to become the pre-eminent linux education platform, with only one person dedicated to it, starting from nothing"21:23
LaserJockhighvoltage: sure21:24
LaserJockdinda: I think it would be curious to ask Mark or other high-ups what exactly it would take for Canonical to take Edubuntu seriously21:24
LaserJockdo we need to generate X number of "sales" or capture Y% of the Educational market, etc.21:25
LaserJockfrankly I just don't know what Canonical considers a success here21:25
dindaI think part of the hesitation is just that canonical doesn't want to support another distro21:25
sbalneavThe goal that was set for us, at the beginning, was that we were supposed to, within one year, to have more installs than K12LTSP (fedora based, been around for 7+years) and skolelinux/debian-edu (been around for 7+ years) combined.21:26
LaserJockdinda: well, do they have to?21:26
sbalneavit was a ludicrously high bar.21:27
LaserJockand Edubuntu did become a premier LTSP distro21:27
dindasbalneav: indeed21:27
dindaI really can't speak to the whole ltsp aspect as I'm not familiar with it enough21:27
LaserJockI sorta just don't get the whole reluctance though21:28
LaserJockMark told me he was very disappointed that HP went with openSUSE Edu21:29
Nubaeripping ltsp from edubuntu was a big marketing mistake21:29
stgraberNubae: not sure, for me it clearly wasn't21:29
LaserJockand Fedora is also making a lot of headway with Sugar, etc.21:29
Nubaewell... opensuse-edu kept kiwi-ltsp as a part of their offering21:29
stgraberNubae: especially, now that it's in both21:29
Nubaesugar is supposed to be agnostic21:30
dindaLaserJock: yeah, i've been following what RH is doing with Sugar21:30
Nubaethought they do most of their marketing through fedora21:30
LaserJockbut if Education is very important to Canonical/Mark/mdz at all, then why can't we even get an email?21:30
Nubaemain issue now with ubuntu is we have 4 versions21:30
Nubaethe original debian21:30
Nubaeand 3 ppa21:30
LaserJockI've never asked for a full blow strategy or anything21:31
dindaLaserJock: truthfully, it just hasn't been important recently21:31
LaserJockand I really don't care if Canonical doesn't feel it can support another distro (I get that)21:31
LaserJockbut I feel like there's just no consideration for this community at all21:31
LaserJockwhich is so strange to me considering how much Mark and mdz in particular have said in the past about the importance of Education21:32
dindaabout a year ago, everything shifted focus toward server and cloud. . .21:32
dindaso it's not even been on the radar for Canonical at all21:32
LaserJockbut those are quite important in the Educational sector too21:33
Nubaewell, ud think sales of netbooks would say something21:33
LaserJocklike I said before, whether it's Ubuntu Server, Ubuntu Desktop, Edubuntu, etc. I don't much care21:34
NubaeI mean I physically saw 250,000 of them with ubuntu on them go to the Spanish school system21:34
LaserJockbut the total lack of "interest" in communication or partnership is frustrating21:34
LaserJockthat Edubuntu wasn't supported should have come from *somebody*21:35
LaserJockI mean, it's in Main for goodness sakes, that used to mean something21:35
highvoltagenow you sound like an old person :)21:36
alkisgGetting a phd is bound to give a person some gray hair... :D21:36
LaserJockno gray21:37
LaserJockjust not much hair left ;-)21:37
Nubaeheh, I've seen21:37
Nubaeoh another pretty major contributor we forgot was Lns21:38
Nubaegod, cant get over how bad that juxlala is, had to sit through an hour lecture on it21:38
alkisgNubae: logari81 is Greek, living in Spain for now. About this "(11:34:15 μμ) Nubae: I mean I physically saw 250,000 of them with ubuntu on them go to the Spanish school system" ==> where did those netbooks go? He says he didn't see any in his region...21:41
dindaalkisg: they were deployed in andalucia by our partner Isotorl21:43
dindaIsotrol - there is a case study up now on the Canonical website about it21:43
logari81Nubae, dinda: actually I ve never heart of this movement, and I was somewhat disapointed21:43
alkisgAh, thanks dinda21:43
alkisgIn Greece, 120.000 netbooks were given to 1st grade students,  dual boot with ubuntu/windows.21:46
Nubaewhat region21:47
Nubaethis is only Andalucia21:47
Nubaeyeah it was a big thing21:47
Nubaethogugh as media usually gets it wrong21:48
Nubaeit wasnt just isotrol21:48
logari81I think Andalucia is much more Linux-friendly than Asturias, where I live :)21:48
Nubaenever mind its complicated and pointless21:48
Nubaewell, I can telll u I was physically working with 50 folks in one office using linux only and working for linux only21:49
Nubaebut the problem is, they've been doing it since 200121:49
Nubaestarting off with debian21:49
Nubaeand then moving to buntu21:49
Nubaeand now they want the path of least resistance to everything21:50
Nubaewhich means little innovation21:50
Nubaein one way it makes sense, in another, its alittle tooo beaurocractic21:50
dindaok, so I'll try to gather support to get canonical reps at the edubuntu discussions at UDS21:50
dindaand long-term mybe next UDS we can get more sponsorships for the team21:51
stgraberdinda: that'd be great21:51
dindaI'm also lobbying for some more 'official' statement concerning where Canonical stands in regards to the Edubuntu project as I was told some better communication would be forthcoming21:52
NubaeI think  the marketing of ltsp with edubuntu is very powerful21:54
Nubaethere are many places the 2 do and will overlap21:55
* Lns pops in22:48
LnsNubae: i wouldn't say i'm too much of a contributer anymore, but I do work with *buntu in schools! ha22:59

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