[02:30] <jwisser> Rollcall.
[02:33] <ScottK> \o
[02:34] <JontheEchidna> o/
[02:35] <jwisser> ScottK & JontheEchidna: Hello. Sorry I've been elsewhere the last few days; I'm about to get in touch with UndoIT. Is there anyone else I missed and should contact?
[02:36] <JontheEchidna> I cannot recall anyone else
[02:40] <ScottK> There was someone who was here who volunteered to help on web site design
[02:40]  * ScottK is blanking on who
[02:50] <jwisser> Someone besides UndoIT? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2009-November/003516.html
[02:51] <ScottK> Yes, it was someone on IRC
[02:52] <ScottK> My backlog search doesn't seem to be working out very well though
[04:07] <ScottK> Riddell: Would it be possible to move "Kubuntu Lucid Packaging" back an hour on Monday.  There's another session on at Noon I'd like to go to.
[04:07] <ScottK> (back meaning earlier)
[04:09] <ScottK> Riddell: I've also got a conflict the last hour of the day for Kubuntu Lucid Development
[04:24]  * kb9vqf really, really hates Compiz & KDE virtual desktops vs. viewports
[04:29] <ScottK> kb9vqf: Switch to KDE4 and use Kwin.  Problem solved.
[04:29] <ScottK> ;-)
[04:30] <kb9vqf> ScottK: Well, that would solve one problem and create about 50 others ;-)
[04:30]  * kb9vqf doesn't use compositing anyway; it's for another user
[04:31] <ScottK> I didn't either in KDE3.  I find it very useful in KDE4.
[04:44] <dtchen_> ScottK: out of curiosity, what sorts of workflows benefit from kwin's compositing?
[04:46] <ScottK> dtchen_: I find it's present windows a very good way to switch between windows when I have a bunch open.
[04:47] <ScottK> I also find some of the translucency stuff benificial.
[05:00] <dtchen_> ok, so overview type? Interesting.
[05:11] <ScottK> I was chatting with a friend of mine who uses both OS X and KDE 3 (in Debian Testing) and is likely to switch to KDE 4 soon perhaps without OS X.  When he described the feature he'd most miss from OS X (I can't remember Apple's name for it), it turned out to be pretty exactly "Present Windows".
[05:14] <Lex79> ScottK: do you know why python-marble package is disabled in the kdeedu's control file? no informations in changelog
[05:14] <JontheEchidna> it failed to build once upon a time
[05:15] <JontheEchidna> oh, maybe not. I might be thinking of something else
[05:15]  * JontheEchidna tries to remember why
[05:15] <Lex79> :)
[05:16] <JontheEchidna> Sime: Do you have any recollection of ^^? I think you might have been consulted at one point about it
[05:16] <Lex79> well, I can test if builds, if not, I can keep it disabled
[05:31] <ScottK> IIRC it was disabled in the Jaunty backport due to bindings problems.
[05:31] <ScottK> I should have been enabled for Karmic
[08:14] <jussi01> I have this really annoying bug...
[08:14] <jussi01> I have xinerama, mouse moves fine and things generally work fine but when I use the internal laptop mousepad, then I cant move the mouse out of the lappy screen. weird. :/
[08:14] <jussi01> oh yeah, FGLRX rubbish driver...
[09:07] <jussi01> still noone about?
[09:07] <jussi01> kubuntu lucid packaging here is linked wrong... http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/2009-11-16/
[09:12] <jussi01> seems as though most of the kubuntu ones are. they go to non existing wiki pages, instead of the LP page for it.
[09:14] <jussi01> I love mornings... so peaceful :P
[09:49] <MelisU> Hi, is the planet really the place to post political hate?
[09:50] <jussi01> MelisU: hrm?
[09:51] <MelisU> that guy posting the Obama countdown, he surely hates
[09:51] <jussi01> MelisU: planet ubuntu?
[09:52] <jussi01> MelisU: Subscribed feeds ought to be at least occasionally relevant to Ubuntu, although the only hard and fast rule is "don't annoy people."
[09:52] <MelisU> yup
[10:00] <Tm_T> http://machine-crusade.net/blog/2009/11/11/ha/
[10:00] <Tm_T> this one, right?
[10:09]  * jussi01 doesnt see that as hate, just an opinion. 
[10:19] <Tm_T> jussi01: I see it only as nonsense in planet ubuntu, I rather keep that kind of posts away from there
[10:20] <jussi01> Tm_T: Ive  no problem with people expressing views. its an agreggate of peoples blogs, people need to be polite and courteous, but are allowed to have opinions.
[10:20] <Tm_T> sure
[10:21] <jussi01> the minute we start suppressing opinions...
[10:21] <Tm_T> I have no problem with it neither
[10:21] <Tm_T> anyway, more harm has done this blog post (it's fully in planet ubuntu, graaaah) http://blog.thesilentnumber.me/2009/09/top-things-to-do-after-installing.html
[10:21] <jpds> Tm_T: Been there twice.
[10:22] <jpds> 'tis old.
[10:22] <Tm_T> that long posts really should show only some leading paragraph in planet
[10:46] <markey> Riddell: args, my whole KDE session just crashed again
[10:46] <markey> clicked something in Amarok, BOOOM
[10:46] <markey> back to KDM
[10:46] <markey> this is not good
[10:47] <markey> can you give me instructions how to debug this with Apport again?
[10:47] <markey> I forget
[10:48] <Riddell> markey: erk
[10:48] <Riddell> markey: well turn on apport in /etc/defaults/apport and it'll catch the crash when it happens
[10:49] <markey> ok
[10:49] <markey> can I stull use DrKonqi then?
[10:49] <markey> or does it replace it?
[10:49] <markey> still*
[10:49] <Riddell> next time kde starts there will be a "!" icon in the system tray which will run apport when you click it and send the backtrace and other files to launchpad
[10:49] <markey> ok
[10:49] <Riddell> it replaces drkonqi
[10:49] <markey> oh well, so be it
[10:50] <markey> question is, bug in KDE or elsewhere... we'll see
[10:50] <markey> hopefully not in KDE
[10:50] <markey> KWin comes to mind
[10:51] <Riddell> kwin doesn't kill the session as far as I know
[10:51] <Riddell> ksmserver would
[10:51] <Riddell> and of course X or an X driver would
[10:51] <markey> this all started to happen after the KDE 4.3.3 upgrade from backports
[11:06] <Riddell> hmm, maybe a good thing we didn't put it into -updates yet
[11:10] <markey> next problem: for some reason, my MTP device is no longer detected
[11:10] <markey> it all worked fine a few days ago
[11:10] <markey> libmtp is there, everything
[11:10] <markey> didn't change anything there
[11:12] <neversfelde> what is mysqle_amarok_local_errmsg_feature.diff for amarok?
[11:12] <markey> now I have a zombie amarok process that I can't kill
[11:13] <markey> mark     21356  2.0  0.0      0     0 ?        Zl   12:09   0:04 [amarok] <defunct>
[11:13]  * markey starting to panic a bit
[11:13] <markey> this is my workstation
[11:14] <markey> ok, restarting desktop with Apport enabled
[11:14] <markey> brb
[11:16] <markey> hm, no "!" icon there
[11:17] <apachelogger> *** glibc detected *** ./ex1: realloc(): invalid next size: 0x08d76008 ***
[11:17] <apachelogger> hrrhrr :D
[11:18] <neversfelde> markey: I am not an apport expert, but probably you can find the crash report under /var/crash
[11:18] <neversfelde> Patch (05_mysqle_amarok_local_errmsg.diff) Amarok MySQLe to search for
[11:18] <neversfelde>       the errmsg.sys in the <amarok data dir>/mysqle (--language option).
[11:18] <neversfelde> I am afraid I have no idea what this is :)
[11:19] <markey> mark@hyperion:~$ ps aux | grep apport
[11:19] <markey> mark     22499  0.0  0.0   7336   888 pts/9    S+   12:19   0:00 grep apport
[11:19] <markey> hmm
[11:19] <markey> I tried to force start it
[11:19] <markey> sudo service apport start force_start=1
[11:20] <markey> didn't do much
[11:20] <markey> neversfelde: no idea about that mysql patch, sorry
[11:21] <markey> interesting
[11:21] <neversfelde> markey: k, it is not working anymore, we should probably try to drop it and see what debian does
[11:21] <markey> now this:
[11:21] <markey> amarok:                     [MtpHandler] Initializing MTP stuff
[11:21] <markey> amarok:                     [MtpHandler] Getting list of raw devices
[11:21] <markey> and then it hangs
[11:27] <markey> ok I think I see what's going on with MTP
[11:27] <markey> lemme try something
[11:29] <markey> forget about the MTP thing
[11:29] <markey> that's actually an amarok bug
[11:32] <markey> so anyway, back to Apport: I've enabled it, restarted KDE, but there is no "!" icon anywhere
[11:32] <markey> is that good or bad?
[11:32] <Riddell> markey: probably means nothing has crashes with apport enabled yet (check in /var/crash if you like)
[11:33] <markey> ok
[11:42] <dantti> hey Riddell and JontheEchidna, well if what i did get in debconf package, I'd include that kde code in KPackageKit, and gnome-packagekit would be implemented by it's author too..
[11:43] <Riddell> dantti: but doesn't packagekit daemon prevent interruptions?
[11:44] <dantti> Riddell: well it does not allow you to use packagekit methods that block the transaction, but that doesn't mean we can't do an out of band solution... :D
[11:44] <dantti> Riddell: actually i could do exactly what aptdaemon does right now, and have debconf support
[11:45] <dantti> but i prefer to implement that directly into debconf-comunicate to avoid coding it twice (kpk and gpk) the same make socket read socket, then pass to d-c...
[11:45] <Riddell> dantti: how does out of band work?  surely debconf needs to ask and get an answer during the package install
[11:47] <dantti> Riddell: the out of band means like out of PackageKit, we code in an ifndef the code to handle debconf in kpk and gpk, then pass the socket path (in the case of dbus debconf frontend i passed the connection id), then aptcc (or apt) backends pass that to passthrough..
[11:48] <dantti> Riddell: that doesn't change PackageKit methods and flow in any way, what we have is a solution that has another way of comunication...
[11:48] <Riddell> all very impressive sounding
[11:48] <Riddell> dantti: so what should we be pushing for inclusion at UDS next week?
[11:49] <dantti> it just use packagekit to make the backend aware of what comunication form should be used (ie a socket path..)
[11:51] <Riddell> neversfelde: pkg-kde-tools_0.5.2ubuntu2 should fix your compile problem with doc paths
[11:52] <neversfelde> Riddell: k, I will try another build, thanks
[11:54] <Riddell> neversfelde: http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/pkg-kde-tools_0.5.2ubuntu2_all.deb
[11:54] <Riddell> yo, ryanakca, I should be hassling Ng right?
[11:54] <dantti> Riddell: sorry, work stuff, well as i said in that post i'm waiting for debconf devs to aprove that solution, so i can code and test..
[11:54] <dantti> Riddell: btw what is UDS?
[11:55] <ryanakca> Riddell: Please :) ... It would me much appreciated. Or whoever is in change of the security audits.
[11:55] <Riddell> dantti: the ubuntu summit next week, you're not passing through dallas are you?
[11:55] <Riddell> ryanakca: for the screenshot module?
[11:56] <dantti> Riddell: hehe, I'm a bit far far from there :P
[11:56] <ryanakca> Riddell: Yes, RT 7201
[11:57] <Riddell> ryanakca: should I have a password for the rt site?
[11:57] <amichair> anyone here familiar with the jockey-kde code?
[11:58] <Riddell> amichair: jockey's code I always find to be overly complex, only pitti really is familiar with it
[11:58] <Riddell> want me to introduce you?
[11:58] <amichair> sure
[11:59] <Riddell> amichair: join #ubuntu-devel
[11:59]  * jussi01 thinks maybe he should bug someone about jockey-kde not updating the package cache, or are you planning to do that amichair?
[11:59] <Riddell> firefox installer has the same issue
[11:59] <ryanakca> Riddell: agy might be more appropriate than Ng seeing that he's the one who started the audit. However, afaik, Ng is the one who takes care of the Drupal stuff
[12:00] <amichair> dunno, JontheEchidna suggested I move on from software-properties to jockey, dunno what I'm looking for - I'm on a general bug-killing spree
[12:01] <amichair> Riddell: if u have anything else to suggest as well, I can take a look. I wanna help get this stuff stable and usable.
[12:04] <jussi01> amichair: this is kinda the bug IM talking about: bug 306349
[12:05] <jussi01> thats quite old, but it is in jockey-kde
[12:06] <Riddell> jussi01: you think it doesn't happen in jockey-gtk?
[12:06] <jussi01> bug 357134 is more it though (although I think they are same bug?)
[12:06] <jussi01> Riddell: its curious, as yesterday I could install ati drivers with jockey-gtk but not with -kde.
[12:09] <amichair> jussi01: I saw a bunch of reports about ppl clicking activate and nothing happens - is this all the same bug?
[12:09] <jussi01> amichair: Im not certain, but seems a user fixed it the other day by running apt-get update. however, I dont know for sure.
[12:09] <jussi01> it did not fix it for me.
[12:09] <Riddell> yes that's what happened when I tried it
[12:10] <amichair> jussi01: so I guess that's not it...
[12:10] <jussi01> amichair: I think not, in all cases, but in some.
[12:11] <jussi01> amichair: I was able to install with jockey-gtk yesterday (as I just said), when even after apt-get update jockey-kde did not work.
[12:12] <amichair> anyone have thoughts on how I can test this in a vm? anything I can make it detect in there? wouldn't want to trash my work box
[12:12] <amichair> jussi01: which bug corresponds to what happened to u? any error message?
[12:12] <jussi01> well I can deactivate and reactivate if it helps.
[12:12] <ScottK> The lack of local cache problem affects both jockey-gtk and jockey-kde and is release noted as such.  The rest, I don't know.
[12:12] <jussi01> amichair: bug 357134 is closest to me
[12:13] <jussi01> ie. clicking activate does nothing.
[12:13] <amichair> jussi01: but no error or anything? and gui is still responsive? (i.e. one of the other buttons work)?
[12:14] <jussi01> no and yes.
[12:14] <amichair> jussi01: ok... the main problem is how do I recreate this in a test environment :-/
[12:15] <Riddell> that's always been an issue with jockey, you don't have the hardware to test it
[12:15] <Riddell> there is a test module that you can set up, pitti will know how
[12:15] <jussi01> amichair: yeah, its hard.
[12:15] <jussi01> mind, theres a related issue Im seeing.
[12:16] <jussi01> If i click remove, green light disappears in jockey-kde, but if I restart it, the enabled light is back.
[12:16] <amichair> and are we sure this ony happens in kde? that can help sort it out too
[12:16]  * jussi01 tries with -gtk
[12:17] <jussi01> amichair: the behaviour I just described only happens with jockey-kde (-gtk works)
[12:18] <jussi01> amichair: ok, I have the behaviour for the bug here after removing the driver.
[12:20] <amichair> jussi01: didn't get that last bit
[12:20] <jussi01> and yes, it only happens on jockey-kde
[12:20] <amichair> jussi01: oh ok
[12:20] <jussi01> amichair: I can reproduce.
[12:20] <amichair> jussi01: I envy you :-)
[12:21] <jussi01> amichair: I have to go get my GF from work, Ill be back later so we can test. ok?
[12:21] <amichair> jussi01: sure, have fun :-)
[12:21] <amichair> jussi01: if u can, maybe update the bug issue with all the details above and exact reproducing steps?
[12:33] <amichair> cool, the virtualbox guest addons shows up in jockey in the vbox, so I have something to test with :-)
[12:41] <raja> Hi, I have a PyKDE4 question, is it possible to have a daemon process that listens just for signals and acts on it ?
[12:42] <raja> most of examples I see mention the requirement of KAboutWindow and KCmdline before getting access to KApplication objects
[12:42] <raja> s/KAboutWindow/KAboutData
[12:43] <Riddell> Sime: ^^
[12:43] <sebas> raja: signals don't make it across process boundaries, they're all in process (but work across threads)
[12:43] <sebas> you'll have to resort to d-bus for IPC
[12:43] <sebas> with Qt4, you can work without a GUI though
[12:44] <raja> thanks sebas, im trying to do without a GUI, Ill lookup PyQt.
[12:45] <sebas> alright :)
[13:14] <amichair> Riddell: 4 duplicate bug reports for this issue, which turns out to be a simple gui thing - one of the reporters actually gave a perfectly correct analysis of the problem. I guess no one read it :(
[13:14] <amichair> Riddell: do u have a guideline for which to mare as duplicate? the oldest? one with most comments? most accurate description? just pick any?
[13:15] <Riddell> amichair: one with the most useful information/comments I guess
[13:16] <amichair> Riddell: and does launchpad automatically take care of transitivity, i.e. one dup of two dup of three, will make them all point to three?
[13:20] <Riddell> amichair: I think you need to point them all at the one chosen bug number
[13:20] <Riddell> I seem to mind it doesn't let you make a dup point at a dup
[13:20] <amichair> Riddell: ok, I'll try to untangle this DAG
[13:21] <amichair> Riddell: yep, just gave me an error
[13:26] <amichair> Riddell: is it possible jockey doesn't have a changelog file?
[13:26] <Riddell> amichair: bzr log ?
[13:27] <Riddell> amichair: where did you get it, there's the "upstream" branch and the "ubuntu" branch which will have debian/changelog
[13:27] <amichair> Riddell: I run dch, it tells me there's no changelog, and I really don't see one
[13:27] <amichair> Riddell: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jockey-hackers/jockey/trunk/
[13:28] <amichair> amichair: (I did bzr branch lp:jockey, iirc)
[13:28] <Riddell> amichair: right that's the "upstream" branch, that gets merged with the ubuntu branch for release which adds in the debian/* bits
[13:28] <Riddell> amichair: it's best to work on the upstream branch
[13:28] <Riddell> but then you'll need to merge or just copy the debian directory if you want to package it
[13:29] <amichair> Riddell: so I just use a bzr log message, and whomever will do the merge will add it to the changelog? can I put LP# references there too?
[13:29] <Riddell> amichair: yes I believe so
[13:30] <ghostcube> http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/
[13:30] <ghostcube> isn this a plasma widgets rip
[13:30] <ghostcube> o.O
[13:32] <amichair> Riddell: k, thanks
[13:34] <amichair> it's fun closing 5 bug reports with one line of code :-)
[13:36] <amichair> Riddell: btw, who's upstream in this case?
[13:37] <amichair> Riddell: oh also, so I need a --fixes bug in this case?
[13:39] <Riddell> amichair: upstream is pitti and ubuntu.  he likes to keep separate upstream and ubuntu branches in the hope that other distros will use it (even if the only difference in the branches is the packaging)
[13:40] <amichair> Riddell: ok, sorry for all the questions...
[13:40] <Riddell> questions are good
[13:40] <amichair> Riddell: ok, one more :-)  : is pitti the one I should ask to review the branch and merge?
[13:41] <Riddell> amichair: might be worth checking if there's a "how to hack on jockey" wiki page or anything and if there isn't then making one
[13:41] <Riddell> amichair: pitti or me I guess, me if it's more fixing KDE UI bits, pitti if it's more about using jockey internals
[13:42] <amichair> Riddell: in that case... I've got work for u :-)
[13:51] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: you questioned if we need kubuntu_01_no_translate_pc_diff but we do else .pot files get full of strings from .pc (which is always made when using quilt), we need to add equivalent patches to several other packages
[13:56] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I figured that out during the merge. it needs to stay
[13:56] <JontheEchidna> think we could upstream that? It's just a teeny argument to a regex
[13:57] <JontheEchidna> well, not a regex
[13:57] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I could just quietly commit it, it's concievably other people would also be using quilt
[13:59] <Riddell> kubuntu_06_user_disk_mounting I'm not sure what to do with, ervin has said in the past he's not keen on it, I wonder what other distros do
[13:59] <Riddell> kubuntu_68_remove_applet_confirmation I didn't even know we had, I'll send that to the plasma list
[13:59] <Riddell> kubuntu_80_kaction_qt_keys.diff depends on a patch in qt doesn't it?
[14:00] <Riddell> debfx: do you know the status of that?
[14:00] <JontheEchidna> the applet confirmation one needs some work. Any patch that has "Hack" in the comments needs work :P
[14:00] <JontheEchidna> wouldn't hurt to fire off a mail to p-d anyway I guess
[14:02] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: good merge anyway, uploading then sending relevant diffs to debian and upstream
[14:02] <Riddell> just watch your indentation in the changelog :)
[14:02] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: did I add the pc patch back to bzr?
[14:02] <JontheEchidna> yeah, looks like I did
[14:03] <Riddell> yes it's there
[14:03] <JontheEchidna> ok, then it has my stamp of approval
[14:53] <neversfelde> mhh, I can't see any notifications from knotify with the new amarok
[15:21] <dpm> hi Riddell, I'm looking at bug 379820 and I'm wondering if it could be assigned to a particular KDE/Kubuntu package rather than the language pack, do you (or anyone else) have got any suggestions?
[15:25] <Riddell> dpm: I guess kded4 (which is in kde4libs) needs patched to watch for new language packs
[15:29] <dpm> Riddell, thanks. I'm not too familiar with the kde libs, but is kded4 then only for KDE3?, i.e. does this bug only affects KDE3 and upgrades to KDE4?
[15:31] <Riddell> dpm: it affects kde 4 when installing new languages
[15:31] <seele> Riddell: i see you submitted the kickoff patches again
[15:31] <Riddell> assuming the bug exists, I've never seen it happen
[15:31] <seele> is this the 3rd time?
[15:32] <dpm> Riddell, ok, thanks, I'll update the bug
[15:32] <Riddell> seele: let it never be said that we have patches without upstream knowing
[15:32] <seele> Riddell: oh, they *know* about our patches, that doesnt mean they like them :)
[15:39] <dpm> Riddell, what's the source package for kde4libs, then? I'm trying to add a bug task and can't find it
[15:39] <Riddell> dpm: kde4libs is the source package
[15:44] <dpm> Riddell, my bad, I was trying to open a bug task for a project instead of a src package, that's why I couldn't find it. Thanks
[16:03] <Quintasan> so, hi there
[16:10] <neversfelde> did someone see the mail from the kid3 author on the motu list?
[16:23] <Quintasan> Riddell: I guess I can add my brand new blog to planet?
[16:23] <JontheEchidna> blah: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/11/12/bc-break-in-46-against-previous-46/
[16:24] <Quintasan> Just finished reading this, people running trunk will rage :P
[16:24] <JontheEchidna> we have 4.6 in lucid. I think I may rage :<
[16:25] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: why?
[16:25] <Quintasan> let me draw something for you :3
[16:26] <JontheEchidna> rebuilding everything that's been built against 4.6 in lucid will have to be rebuilt
[16:26] <JontheEchidna> er, that didn't quite make sense
[16:26] <Riddell> Quintasan: if you're a member
[16:26] <JontheEchidna> rebuilding everything that's been built against 4.6 in lucid will be a pain
[16:26] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: well, those will be rebuilt anyway at some point ?
[16:27] <Quintasan> yay, my machine is ready!
[16:27] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: http://imagebin.ca/view/5SPn-Add.html
[16:28] <JontheEchidna> Tm_T: depends. Some packages might not get a new upstream release for a while so we may forget about them. It'll be a pain to see what needs rebuilding and what doesn't
[16:28] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: lol
[16:29] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: I see
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> BIC changes are a pain in general :(
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> especially if you happen to be running lucid yourseld :P
[16:29] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: I'm used to have API and ABI changes in my builds (:
[16:33] <Riddell> ScottK: sessions moved
[16:37] <mvo> hey Riddell - do you get a lot of bugreports about java not being installable? bug #378802 looks like the lack of a debconf qt frontend is causing some grief and I wonder how widespread the issue is
[16:40] <Riddell> mvo: surprisingly few, I always thought most people used openjdk these days, but I did see a blog today where it was highlighted as the main issue and there's a thread on ubuntuforums about it, I don't know if mozilla java plugins installs sun java in karmic and didn't before
[16:40] <Riddell> but yes it's the lack of debconf frontend anyway, so we do need the stuff dantti's been working on in lucid
[16:41] <mvo> Riddell: ok, thanks. this is definitely the future, I was wondering if there is anything we can do now, but I don't have a bright idea
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> bug 350972
[16:42] <Riddell> blacklist sun java in kpackagekit somehow would be the thing we should have done in karmic
[16:42] <dantti> mvo: poke more cjwatson till he get furious lol
[16:42] <mvo> dantti: heh :)
[16:43] <mvo> dantti: I did, I see him next week, I will continue poking him then
[16:43] <mvo> JontheEchidna: thanks, I reassign the other bug to this
[16:43] <dantti> mvo: if I got any approval on any debconf dev about doing that socket thing in debconf-comunicate it would be done in aptcc and kpk verry fast..
[16:44] <mvo> dantti: cwjatson is the one I know, but I have the feeling that the --socket option is the right solution, nice and isolated
[16:45] <dantti> mvo: yup, imo that's good cause avoid have to add too much code to kpk and gpk..
[16:45] <dantti> mvo: btw did you test aptcc? :D
[16:46] <mvo> dantti: not yet, just looked at the code so far, not compiled it yet
[16:46] <mvo> dantti: I need to do that though
[16:46] <dantti> the only bug in it right now is that yes to conffile questions.. but i don't have any idea what's wrong..
[16:46] <neversfelde> Riddell: koffice build with new pkg-kde-tools
[16:46] <Riddell> neversfelde: phew
[16:47] <dantti> mvo: k, hope you like it... it's working pretty well/fast :D
[16:47] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: eek, kdepimlibs will fail to build
[16:47] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: how?
[16:47] <JontheEchidna> boost 1.40 isn't in main yet, they were going to make the decision later this week
[16:47] <JontheEchidna> I forgot to bump it back down to 38
[16:47] <Riddell> doh
[16:48] <JontheEchidna> have to go to the orthodontist's now, bbl
[16:48] <Riddell> good luck
[16:54] <agateau> Riddell: SRU for nasty #462049 is now in the queue (dixit seb128)*
[16:57] <Quintasan|Szel> omg, "xbox hueg"
[16:59] <Riddell> agateau: hmm, don't see it in -proposed queue
[17:07] <agateau> Riddell: seb128 said it was waiting for pitti
[17:08] <Riddell> yes, although I could sneakily just accept it myself
[17:09] <agateau> :)
[17:17] <Quintasan|Szel> Riddell: member of what? wiki says I need to be a Ubuntu Member
[17:17] <Riddell> Quintasan|Szel: right
[17:18] <Quintasan|Szel> guess Ill write something interesting first :P
[17:18] <Riddell> Quintasan|Szel: you an ubuntu member so that's fine
[17:18] <Riddell> go ahead and add your blog
[17:20] <Quintasan|Szel> Ill do it when I get home, I forgot to forward ports on new router and I'm stuck on another shell
[17:20] <jussi01> Quintasan|Szel: you are an ubuntu member?
[17:21] <jussi01> Quintasan|Szel: if so, you can get yourself an @ubuntu/member/accountname cloak if you like.
[17:23]  * Tm_T thinks people here should have ubuntu AND kde cloaks (:
[17:27] <Quintasan|Szel> jussi01: how do I get a one?
[17:28] <Tm_T> #ubuntu-irc I believe is best place to request it
[17:29] <neversfelde> Quintasan|Szel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/Cloaks
[17:30] <Quintasan|Szel> neversfelde: would read it but I'm on phone currently :)
[17:31] <jussi01> Quintasan|Szel: join #ubuntu-irc ask and supply your lp id
[17:31] <jussi01> err url to your lp page...
[17:32] <Quintasan|Szel> ok
[17:32] <Quintasan|Szel> Poland + so called 3G == constant disconnects
[17:46] <Riddell> seele: would you agree that knetattach is best used though dolphin and not through the k menu?
[18:07] <Riddell> ryanakca: ng pointed me at agy, I've had no reply from him :(
[18:29] <Riddell> apachelogger: kubuntu_13_startkde_set_country.diff, upstreamable to debian? upstreamable to KDE?
[18:39] <Riddell> shtylman_: kubuntu_63_ksplash_fix.diff changelog says it's from trunk but it's not in trunk?
[18:46] <Quintasan> I must say that 9.10 works just great
[18:46] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: kubuntu_72_remove_startkde_cruft.diff upstreamable?
[18:49] <txwikinger> Is there a way how I can find a KDE process from the session number, in a similar way as I could do with dcop?
[18:50] <Riddell> session number?
[18:50] <amichair> if a python reference is set to None, does the previous object value immediately get destroyed?
[18:50] <txwikinger> well.. in top I can see session ids
[18:52] <Quintasan> txwikinger: Dunno if this helps you but I use "ps aux | grep <process name>
[18:53] <txwikinger> Quintasan: Well.. I want to find the associated window, i.e. the particular konqueror that takes so much cpu time
[18:53] <txwikinger> with dcop I could get the urls open etc, so I could find it
[18:54] <Quintasan> txwikinger: hmm, dunno then, I use htop or ps aux
[18:54] <Riddell> amichair: not immediately but once the garbage collectors run it will be if nothing else points to it (in Qt widgets usually have parents pointing at them if they're not top level)
[18:55] <Quintasan> Riddell: I think we used to set icons for the folders that are made in users home by default, didn't we?
[18:55] <Quintasan> like Downloads, Documents, Videos etc.
[18:55] <Riddell> yes I think so
[18:55] <amichair> Riddell: I found the cause of at least one of the jockey-kde crashes to be the KSystemTrayIcon. if it's not created, the crash goes away. I'm trying to figure out how to manually destroy it...
[18:56] <amichair> Riddell: I found that setting its parent to None and then the reference to it to None just before exiting also fixes it, but from your answer it sounds like this is not reliable... any ideas?
[18:57] <Quintasan> Riddell: http://imagebin.ca/view/f5v_gb.html -> fast changes, would look like this, brb
[18:58] <txwikinger> amichair: Here is something aout python garbage collector: http://www.electricmonk.nl/log/2008/07/07/python-destructor-and-garbage-collection-notes/
[18:58] <amichair> txwikinger: thanks
[18:59] <Riddell> amichair: you can delete objects
[19:00] <Riddell> amichair: also KSystemTrayIcon should be ported to KNotificationItemThing, which is the new systray icon replacement, but I don't think that has python bindings yes
[19:00]  * txwikinger wonders if it makes sense to have the pid in the about widget of an KDE app
[19:00] <amichair> Riddell: yes, I saw it says that in kde 4.4 api, but it doesn't exist yet in 4.3
[19:02] <amichair> Riddell: I suppose the core bug is in KSystemTrayIcon in any case, but since there will be a transition to the notification thing anyway, it won't matter by then. I'm looking for a workaround for the meantime
[19:02] <txwikinger> can I make an existing window pop to the top from command by giving the pid?
[19:03] <Riddell> Quintasan|Szel: looks nice, what needs doing for that?
[19:04] <Riddell> debfx: what's the status of kubuntu_101_brightness_fn_keys_and_osd.diff going upstream?
[19:05]  * Riddell uploads kdebase-workspace
[19:07] <amichair> txwikinger: excellent read!
[19:07] <txwikinger> amichair: good if it helps you :)
[19:13] <nixternal> afternoon :)
[19:13] <Quintasan> nixternal: \o
[19:14] <Quintasan> Is it a known bug that jockey fails to install drivers?
[19:16] <antlarr> hi
[19:16] <Mamarok> Quintasan: yep, use the gnome jockey, the kde never worked for me
[19:16] <Quintasan> Mamarok: thanks
[19:16] <Quintasan> Riddell: should we still provide packages that use kde3 for their functionality?
[19:17] <Quintasan> Riddell: like soundkonverter or that app taskjuggler which was mentioned on #kubuntu by antlarr
[19:17] <amichair> txwikinger: it did - another crash bites the dust :-)
[19:17] <Quintasan> antlarr: it depends on kdepim libs form KDE 3 right?
[19:17] <antlarr> right
[19:18] <seele> Riddell: i'm not even sure what knetattach is
[19:18] <txwikinger> amichair: cool
[19:18] <antlarr> right now it doesn't have ical support because it depends on libkdepim3
[19:18] <txwikinger> hey nixternal.. who was the biking
[19:18] <seele> hmm.. has anyone talked about this yet? i havent been paying attention: http://apaku.wordpress.com/2009/11/10/dont-install-ubuntu-9-10-if-you-want-a-stable-kdevelop
[19:19] <seele> complaints about how kdevelop is packaged
[19:19] <Quintasan> seele: as JontheEchidna said, it's not like KDevelop 3.5 is maintained
[19:25] <Quintasan> hurr durr, ugly dependencies on policykit agents
[19:25] <antlarr> I think just including kdelibs3 and kdepimlibs3 (and their -dev packages) would be enough to have a fully functional taskjuggler
[19:25] <Quintasan> Can't we just set gnome or kde agent for policykit?
[19:28] <ScottK> Is Taskjuggler close to a KDE4 release?
[19:28] <nixternal> txwikinger: was awesome...I am thinking of going for a ride either today or tomorrow
[19:28] <Quintasan> ScottK: I don't know
[19:28] <nixternal> probably tomorrow..I need to get my puters all fixed up here so I can start working on Lucid :)
[19:28] <ScottK> I think adding back KDE3 stuff is a non-starter.
[19:28] <antlarr> ScottK: I don't think so
[19:28] <antlarr> last time I checked, I think Christian was rewriting it in ruby
[19:28] <Quintasan> last update of taskjuggler Oct 20, 2009
[19:29] <ScottK> IIRC, pimlibs wasn't a separate package in KDE3.
[19:29] <neversfelde> I have a package that needs phonon-backend-xine or phonon-backend-gstreamer. It can't depend on it, because KDE people do not want phonon-backend-gstreamer, I suppose. Where is the right place to mention these packages Recommends or  Suggests?
[19:29] <ScottK> Quintasan: As I understand it, policykit integration for KDE is coming in KDE 4.4.
[19:30] <nixternal> ScottK: kdepimlibs?
[19:30] <ScottK> nixternal: Yes.  Wasn't that just part of kdepim in KDE3?
[19:30] <Quintasan> ScottK: I'm whining about jockey-gtk installing synaptics and policykit agent for GNOME
[19:30] <nixternal> ScottK: yes
[19:30] <Quintasan> while I have the KDE agent
[19:30] <ScottK> Quintasan: Just fix the KDe one.
[19:31] <ScottK> Oh
[19:31] <Quintasan> brb
[19:36] <Quintasan> SOOOO NICE! :3
[19:42] <antlarr> btw, I checked in the taskjuggler sources, the needed library is libkcal
[19:44] <Quintasan> antlarr: it's available?
[19:44] <antlarr> nop
[19:44] <antlarr> afaik, it was in kdepim3
[19:44] <antlarr> I'm searching for it
[19:47] <amgarchIn9> Hi, is gdm installed on Karmic Kubuntu by default. I have both gdm/kdm and they are constantly in the way of each other. Seem not to respect "dpkg-reconfigure gdm/kdm" anymore.
[19:47] <amgarchIn9> ?
[19:47] <Quintasan> amgarchIn9: why don't you just remove gdm or kdm?
[19:47] <Tm_T> (:)
[19:47] <Quintasan> amgarchIn9: there is no need for both
[19:47] <Tm_T> Quintasan: that doesn't answer the question
[19:48] <amgarchIn9> can anybody confirm gdm is not installed on Kubuntu Karmic?
[19:48] <Quintasan> Tm_T: but helps the user, propably :P
[19:48] <antlarr> Quintasan: I would swear it should be in this package: http://packages.ubuntu.com/es/hardy/libkdepim1a
[19:49] <Quintasan> dpkg -L gdm - "Package gdm not installed"
[19:49] <Quintasan> amgarchIn9: I'm on fresh install
[19:49] <antlarr> I was wrong, there was an explicit package for that library:  http://packages.ubuntu.com/es/hardy/libkcal2b
[19:49] <amgarchIn9> Quintasan: if kde is started grom gdm you dont get Shutdown/Restart buttons in kde menus.
[19:49] <amgarchIn9> *from
[19:50] <Quintasan> amgarchIn9: and anything prevents you from using kdm for GNOME session?
[19:51] <amgarchIn9> why shouldnt both ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-destop coexist peacefully. I had them both installed over three realeases.
[19:51] <amgarchIn9> the two (virtual) packages do not conflict formally.
[19:52] <Tm_T> they should coexist peacefully
[19:52] <Tm_T> if not, there's bug
[19:52] <Quintasan> amgarchIn9: but they install packages containing settings which may conflict
[19:52] <amgarchIn9> if they are not supposed to coexist, one should introduce a formal conflict.
[19:52] <amgarchIn9> kdm/gdm also do not conflict
[19:52] <Tm_T> and shouldn't
[19:53] <amgarchIn9> ok I am removing gdm and see how it works...
[19:53] <Tm_T> amgarchIn9: please check if there's related bug reported, if not, submit one
[19:55] <Quintasan> jcanada: you're here about KDE 3.5.10, right?
[19:58] <jcanada> well, actually I've decided to upgrade to the karmic koala kde3 remix
[19:58] <jcanada> best of both worlds!
[19:58] <Quintasan> Riddell: about the icons, we want do to this or we will discuss this at next meeting? (when?)
[20:00] <amichair> any idea what's the difference in localization between using sudo and kdesudo? e.g. when running jockey-kde --help in foreign locale, one shows question marks, the other throws an exception...
[20:03] <Tm_T> hmmh, I wonder if kde3 remix has fixes that landed into svn right after 3.5.10 release
[20:42] <skreech> JontheEchidna: ping
[20:44] <DaskreeCh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/317236/
[20:45] <DaskreeCh> What's going on there?
[20:45] <DaskreeCh> !info libc6 lucid
[20:51] <DaskreeCh> kb9vqf: hello
[20:54] <nixternal> ScottK: have we started work on a wiki page yet for things that we are looking at for Lucid? Need to start prepping my todo list...I know docs are one of my top priorities, otherwise I will feel the wrath of the jonathans :)
[20:54] <ScottK> nixternal: There's the wiki page with the specs
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> neversfelde: you don't need to worry about depending on phonon. All kde apps depend on kdebase-runtime which takes care of phonon dependencies
[20:56] <nixternal> ScottK: found it, thanks
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> DaskreeCh: pong
[20:56] <ScottK> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuLucidSpecs
[20:56] <DaskreeCh> JontheEchidna: i was trying to figure out what's going on with this ppa. It's reporting depends that are higher than Lynx repos
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> could be based on debian sid or something like that
[20:57] <JontheEchidna> the package, that is
[20:57] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: sorry forgot to say that it is not a KDE app, it is Qt only
[20:57] <nixternal> great work on the PatchReview page everyone
[20:57] <JontheEchidna> oh, then depend on phonon-backend
[20:57] <DaskreeCh> JontheEchidna: Ah ok that's probably it I'll send a report
[20:58] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: on both, xine and gstreamer?
[20:58] <JontheEchidna> no, just "phonon-backend", which all phonon backend packages provide
[20:58] <JontheEchidna> to get xine to be preferred kdebase-runtime depends on phonon-backend-xine | phonon-backend
[20:59] <neversfelde> JontheEchidna: ah ok, thanks
[20:59] <JontheEchidna> you're welcome
[21:09] <nixternal> OK, started the Kubuntu/Todo for Lucid
[21:11] <nixternal> here is an idea, when doing stuff for Kubuntu on the wiki. how about putting everything under Kubuntu/ :)
[21:12] <nixternal> much easier to create a page that lists every child page so it is easier to find stuff
[21:12] <nixternal> and start using CategoryKubuntu or such as well
[21:29] <kb9vqf> Daskreech: Hi!
[21:33] <DaskreeCh> kb9vqf: How are you? :)
[21:34] <DaskreeCh> nixternal: KategoryDoktor
[21:35] <DaskreeCh> apachelogger: Amusing point for the day http://identi.ca/canadianpharmacy is interested in Doktor for some reason. Can't figure out what :)
[21:45] <kb9vqf> Doing OK...pretty busy though
[21:48] <ryanakca> Riddell: OK, thanks :)
[21:48] <DaskreeCh> kb9vqf: great :)
[21:50] <kb9vqf> Daskreech: Did you get a chance to try KDE3 on Karmic yet?
[21:53] <DaskreeCh> kb9vqf: Not currently I can throw up a flag to see if anyone is having any issues
[21:54] <kb9vqf> I was just curious; I've been using it for the past week or so on all my systems without problems
[21:57] <DaskreeCh> What's the Bluettoth situation there?
[21:57] <DaskreeCh> tooth
[21:58] <amichair> JontheEchidna: heya
[22:20] <kb9vqf> Daskreech: Still not working; I don't have any Bluetooth hardware to develop with.
[22:22] <maco> seele: heheheh youre silly
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: yeah, that could probably be upstreamed
[22:29] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: kubuntu_96_pre_kdm_xsplash.diff should probably go. usplash comes up anyway and ksplash only ever ends up appearing for half a second, just slowing down the boot process unecessarily
[22:29] <Riddell> seele: Dolphin -> Network -> Add Network Folder  is knetattach
[22:29] <Lure> Riddell: I have merged digikam beta6 and kipi-plugins 0.8.0 and pushed it to bzr - if you feel like sponsoring it for lucid it would be great
[22:30] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: we'll need to see what the ubuntu desktop plans are for boot
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> bug 476942
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> er
[22:30] <Lure> Riddell: I would also like to upload to kubuntu-ppa/backports as people are complaining about beta5 crasher on photo import
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> bug 476924
[22:30] <Lure> is this fine with you?
[22:30] <Riddell> Lure: can do, or how about real backports?
[22:31] <Lure> Riddell: ok, will check what is the policy for real backports
[22:31] <Riddell> Lure: it has to be in lucid first then it has to be tested by someone
[22:31] <Lure> Riddell: you just get them into lucid then - just grab orig.gz from debian unstable
[22:31] <Riddell> then file a bug
[22:32] <Lure> Riddell: I have it in my ppa for karmic - so I can get testers there
[22:32]  * Lure is at digikam/kipi sprint in next three days and I have to get this in shape to not get negative feedback from others ;-)
[22:33] <Riddell> Lure: file a bug at launchpad.net/karmic-backports
[22:33] <Riddell> Lure: I tried digikam on a newbie today, and I'm afraid that first run wizard is a killer
[22:33] <Riddell> it's full of wordy pointless questions that I don't know the answer to
[22:33] <Lure> Riddell: agreed - for some reason gilles likes it :-(
[22:34] <Lure> will talk to him about this
[22:43] <ofir> I made mockup for a new design to kubuntu.org: http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/ofir-website.png
[22:43] <ofir> Comments are welcome!
[22:44]  * ryanakca likes it :)
[22:44] <JontheEchidna> ooh, nice
[22:45] <ryanakca> (A screenshot slideshow is possible where the screenshot is too :D)
[22:45] <amichair> why does the screenshot have a window-ish wallpaper on it?
[22:46] <amichair> windows-xp-ish
[22:49] <ofir> I downloaded the walpaper from kde-look...
[22:49] <ofir> The screenshot is temproary
[22:50] <dtchen_> I love asiego's blog post about negativity -- he put it much more ably
[22:50] <ofir> If you have good screenshots, you are more than welcome to send them to me
[22:51] <ofir> I will include the best ones in the final release
[22:52]  * amichair wonders if that's a good thing or a bad thing for attracting new users...
[22:53] <nixternal> ofir: absolutely beautiful!
[22:54] <ofir> thanks
[22:55] <nixternal> I think it is time we updated our logo as well
[22:56] <amichair> ofir: looks very good, simple and smooth
[22:56]  * nixternal creates lucid pbuilder finally :)
[22:57] <JontheEchidna> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[22:57] <JontheEchidna>   kdebase-runtime: Depends: oxygen-icon-theme (>= 4:4.2.90) but it is not installable
[22:57] <JontheEchidna> meh :(
[22:57] <JontheEchidna> renamed kde-icons-oxygen, figures
[22:57]  * JontheEchidna fixes
[22:59] <nixternal> hehe
[22:59] <dtchen_> we're not installing Suggests by default, are we?
[22:59] <nixternal> we shouldn't be
[22:59] <nixternal> but that is probably obvious...haven't caught up on what all has changed while I was away
[22:59] <dtchen_> cos this *-jre -> libpulse0 -> pulseaudio stuff is causing me to be very, very sad
[22:59] <nixternal> almost to much has changed, to the point I should go back to Windows development :p
[23:00] <ofir> more updates next week (I hope :)
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> bah, it's the new oxygen-icon being stuck in new
[23:01] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I fixed the jockey 'activate doesn't do anything' and a crash bug I managed to reproduce, but there are a whole bunch of crash bugs with no details of what the user did, no useful stacktrace, etc. I dunno what can be done with them.
[23:02] <JontheEchidna> amichair: what was the deal with the "activete doesn't do anything"? I could never figure that one out.
[23:02] <dtchen_> we need a developer-only LP tag consisting of ":("
[23:03] <nixternal> lol
[23:03] <amichair> JontheEchidna: hehe... it had 5 duplicate bugs. it was a trivial gui thing. one of the bug reporters actually gave a correct analysis of the problem (I read it only after closing the bug, but it didn't take long anyway)
[23:04] <Lure> ofir: nice and professional looking
[23:04] <amichair> JontheEchidna: the problem was that when the gui opened up or refreshed, the first item was highlighted, but not 'current' in the QT sense. that's it.
[23:04] <JontheEchidna> highlighted but not selected... interesting
[23:05] <amichair> JontheEchidna: yes, qt has selectedItems and currentItem, they are not the same. iirc in windows there is visual feedback of this - selected items are highlighted, and the current item has a tiny dotted frame around it
[23:06] <amichair> JontheEchidna: anyway, u can look at the diff, the actual bug fix is one line, and I added a couple more for good measure :-)
[23:07] <JontheEchidna> Before I had thought that maybe the signal/slot weren't being connected, but I suppose it turned out to be much more tricky :)
[23:07] <JontheEchidna> but now... food time. back in a bit
[23:08] <amichair> JontheEchidna: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~amichai2/jockey/fixes/revision/583 (the fix is the last line)
[23:10] <amichair> JontheEchidna: anyway, is there any other bug you'd like to see closed?
[23:28] <shtylman_> Riddell: im pretty sure that patch isn't relevant anymore
[23:28] <shtylman_> it was a ksplash issue which has been fixed in other ways I think
[23:28] <shtylman_> don't hold me to that though... cause I havn't followed that patch in a while
[23:29] <shtylman_> I know I made it to deal with icon clipping and don't know if that is still a problem
[23:30] <JontheEchidna> we could probably not apply it (but don't delete it) and then monitor the situation
[23:31] <JontheEchidna> amichair: not in particular
[23:31] <JontheEchidna> amichair: if there were a list of bugs that should be looked at by developers, would that be useful to you?
[23:32] <amichair> JontheEchidna: yep, what kind of list? like cherrypicking the most important/difficult/annoying bugs around?
[23:32] <JontheEchidna> in theory anything marked as "triaged" in the bug tracker for kde-related entries should have enough info to fix, but should there be an alternative list? (Maybe posted in the topic)
[23:33] <amichair> JontheEchidna: dunno what exactly, but working with the lp bugs the past week seemed more like working with a flat list than anything usefully prioritized
[23:33] <amichair> lp itself rocks though :-)
[23:34] <JontheEchidna> yeah, we're a bit short on hands there on bug triage... just me and, when he can, apachelogger
[23:34] <amichair> amichair: I'm really impressed with everything being integrated and ajaxy and stable and smooth... whoever done it, did a great job :-)
[23:35] <amichair> but the actual status/importance/reports were pretty much like a flat list
[23:36] <amichair> lots of dups, bugs with no info, wishes mixed up with bugs, gtk/kde/core all mixed up...
[23:36] <amichair> there is room for improvement there
[23:37] <JontheEchidna> binary package separation within the tracker is something I've wanted for a long time
[23:37] <amichair> also subjects which are not informative, or have no correlation to the content...
[23:38] <amichair> it would be easier to work with if it was better monitored an maintained
[23:38] <JontheEchidna> yeah... we just need more people for that
[23:39] <amichair> amichair: I did what I could along the way, marked dups, changed subjects, etc.
[23:39] <amichair> but when unmaintained, it's hard to see the forset for the trees
[23:40] <amichair> I think I'm being too verbose here. I'll shut up a bit :-)
[23:40] <JontheEchidna> nah, at the least you don't have as many consecutive lines as apachelogger or myself sometimes have :D
[23:42] <amichair> well I don't yet feel at home in the channel, more of an intruder
[23:43]  * JontheEchidna triages a few jockey-kde bugs
[23:50]  * amichair likes JontheEchidna's attitude!
[23:57] <JontheEchidna> amichair: btw, when you request info feel free to mark the bug's status as incomplete. Then if in 30 days the user hasn't responded you can close the bug
[23:57] <amichair> JontheEchidna: ok
[23:58] <amichair> JontheEchidna: btw, I did the karmic upgrade yesterday, everything seems snappier now :-)
[23:58] <JontheEchidna> cool :)