/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/11/12/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

DPici redirected https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Reorganization to the appropriate meeting minutes page00:00
johnvilsackExcellent!00:01
johnvilsackOk folks!  Welcome to the Ubuntu Community Marketing Team meeting!  My name is John Vilsack and I will be moderating tonight's entertainment. :)00:02
johnvilsackOver the next hour, I'd like us to have an open discussion about the direction we'd like to take marketing as a community team, and what we can do to help provide more tools for our enthusiastic members throughout the world.00:03
johnvilsackIf you are a part of our mailing list, you will have seen the agenda I sent out earlier today.  I'll cover it briefly.00:03
johnvilsackFirst, I'd like to give you all an update as to what has gone on since I became more active in trying to help us get better organized.00:04
johnvilsackAfter that, I'd like to open the floor for three topics one after another: How to improve on being more accessible to volunteers, how to make the data and materials we make more accesible to others, and finally how to make our active projects more noticable so volunteers can join in the good fight.00:05
johnvilsackAfter that, I failed to mention that if anyone has any other business, we should cover it then, and finally close out by discussing any points we should tackle later.00:06
johnvilsackIf anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask away and I'll do my best to not embarass myself :)00:06
DPici'm not sure how much we can get done during this meeting since there seemed to be some conflicts so there are a number of people missing, but we should be able to sort out the major things, i think00:07
johnvilsackNow as I said, my name is John and I have been a part of the Ubuntu Marketing Team for over a year.  I came on board and found a very quiet, segmented group that got some stuff done in little segments, but there didn't seem to be a lot of activity public.00:07
johnvilsackIn the beginning of my time, someone had tried to make the group "more active" but met with some resistance.  This happened again and when that was looking like it was going to fail, I offered to help out.00:08
DPicwas that person me?00:08
DPici don't remember meeting any resistance but i *did* redesign the wiki entirely00:09
DPicgave it a lot of structure, etc.00:09
johnvilsackA little about me:  I am the (by day) director of IT at a snowboarding company in Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA.  I've worked on several political campaigns in their grassroots movements, several other open source projects, and have a desire to basically throw myself into things against my wife's better judgement ;)00:09
johnvilsackAnyway, I just wanted to give a bit of background :)00:09
johnvilsack@DPic: I'm not 100% sure.  I remember the gentleman who tried back then was older, and wanted to see it but was't willing to lead the charge. :(00:10
johnvilsackThe first order of business:  Update00:10
DPicah, i don't remember that00:10
DPicUpdate?00:10
johnvilsackRight when I scheduled the meeting, I had posted a Google Doc Form on the mailing list to help see who all was active and what they were interested in doing.00:10
DPicah00:11
johnvilsackWe got a much better sample than I was honestly expecting to see!  Using a Doc Form was a bit foreign to the group (and me) but we ended up with 16 responses.00:11
johnvilsackAnd I realized I didn't even respond and I'm the one who created it ;)00:11
DPichaha00:12
johnvilsackOf the responses, many of the responders were people who wanted to lead projectss which is great!00:12
popeywill you be publishing the results?00:12
popey"Hello" btw00:12
DPicpopey: the results have always been public iirc00:12
johnvilsackIt means that those who want to be active in the vocal sense are willing to step up and take the reigns00:12
popeyDPic: where?00:12
johnvilsackYes sir, the doc and everything are all completely open to the world.00:12
johnvilsacklet me check one sec00:13
johnvilsackhttp://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtL0i3WC8jUzdGhXTkRjQmJiSjVKeVZGWVo1NFpEeWc&hl=en00:13
johnvilsackThose are the registrants.00:13
popeyoops00:13
popeyi didnt fill it in00:13
johnvilsackI'm quite pleased to see that we have so many willing to step forward and help.  What this means is that we DEFINITELY need to start adding mechanics to the group that allow us to publish our projects, needs, and roles we want to fill.00:14
johnvilsackand by roles I mean the roles in each project.00:14
johnvilsackIt also means almost 20 people read the walls of text we all post to the mailing list, and that has to be a good thing! :)00:15
johnvilsackSo that brings us to the next point.  I'd like to talk about how we can improve access to the marketing team.00:15
DPicokay this is what i see:00:15
johnvilsackI had an idea, and I will throw it out there and then let you all run with what you have :)00:15
DPicthe marketing team has always been *accessible*00:15
DPicit's always been a place where people can bring their projects00:15
johnvilsackagreed00:16
DPicthere has simply never been projects that want to for one reason or another00:16
TakyojiJust needs more active members00:16
DPicperhaps LoCo's are taking care of it just fine00:16
DPicwhat advantage does being a central resource provide anyone?00:16
vadi2DPic: "it's always been a place where people can bring their projects" claarif that please00:16
DPici think we need regular activities00:16
vadi2*clarify00:16
johnvilsackI think it serves a different purpose, to be honest.00:16
johnvilsackHere's an example.00:16
DPicvadi2: people have always been aple to create a project page on the wiki and announce it to the mailing list00:16
vadi2about a ubuntu promotion activity?00:17
johnvilsackTo keep this politically agnostic, let's call my candidate "Candidate A"00:17
TakyojiBecause everytime I make something and ask for review, or prompt a marketing-related question. There's really nobody that answers most of the time00:17
DPicvadi2: what about one?00:17
DPicTakyoji: really? on the mailing list?00:17
TakyojiIRC00:17
johnvilsackWhen we organized the Meetups, Meetups acted like the LoCos do for Ubuntu.  They are completely on their own, and could choose to use ,or not use, whatever they wanted.00:17
DPicTakyoji: ah, IRC isn't always very active...00:17
johnvilsackWhat the "marketing" arm did was created materials that went to the Meetups monthly.00:18
vadi2DPic: I don't think it's accessible, because I don't even know where the wiki is. I went to http://www.ubuntu.com/community, and the "Promote Ubuntu" icon is missing.00:18
TakyojiUsually I prefer more in the direction of forums over mailing lists00:18
johnvilsackIt had flyers, info, stickers, etc. for each group.  But they didn't have to use it, but it was there00:18
DPicvadi2: i think it will soon be replaced with a link to spread ubuntu00:18
johnvilsackanyway, that's kind of what I see Marketing helping with.  Craft the message that people can choose to use if they want, but give them the freedom that they can use it only if they want to :)00:19
johnvilsackAs for improving things for us...I think the first step is helping us, the volunteers.00:19
DPicjohnvilsack: the spread ubuntu website makes a central effort for that on it's own00:19
DPicnot sure if that activity can keep this team afloat00:19
DPicat the very most, it'll get us a bunch of artists00:19
johnvilsackright, but not activists.00:19
popeydepends00:20
johnvilsackthe first step in my mind is to make the marketing landing page easier t access.00:20
Flanneljohnvilsack: Creating resources for the various other teams to use.  That's the conclusion that was arrived at 18 months ago (or whatever) as well.00:20
popeyif you can "communitize" the resource it can00:20
popeyget people to report back on events to the spread ubuntu site00:20
popeyspread ubuntu doesn't just have to be about downloadable leaflets00:20
johnvilsackright, that's how it should be.00:20
popeyit can be a community of activists too00:20
johnvilsackI think SpreadUbuntu can be this tool, for certain00:20
johnvilsackBut again, who is the target audience?00:21
DPicanyone and everyone. that's project-specific00:21
popeythe answer to that is almost always "everyone"00:21
johnvilsackremember, you have the people you want to fall in love with Ubuntu, or the people who love it already and want to spread the word00:21
DPicyou mean who should be a member of this team?00:21
johnvilsackno no00:21
johnvilsackI mean when we talk about making things accessible to folks, remember the types of people who may come across what you are doing.00:22
johnvilsackMy first thought is we have to improve on getting people who want to help find what they want faster.00:22
johnvilsackand that's what spread ubuntu is00:22
johnvilsackbut even SpreadUbuntu is still scatter-shot so to speak.  it tries to be everything for everyone.00:23
johnvilsackHere's a question.00:23
DPicand i think it does that better than this team00:23
johnvilsackThis is how I think of the issue.00:23
johnvilsackRight DPic, that's what I want to change :)00:23
DPicjohnvilsack: isn't that counter-productive?00:23
johnvilsackThe question is:  If I think Ubuntu is awesome, and I am a marketing person who wants to contribute, Where do I go?00:24
johnvilsackand when I get there, what do I see?00:24
DPici think we need a new purpose or to disband and stop distracting people from worthy endeavors like spread ubuntu00:24
johnvilsackHow can I just get my hands dirty and get working?00:24
DPicyou go to your LoCo and/ore spreadubuntu00:24
johnvilsackand what if you don't have an active loco?00:25
johnvilsackbecause that happens.00:25
DPicforums00:25
DPicIRC00:25
johnvilsackwhat if you want to start a new one?00:25
vadi2or what if you got creepy linux geeks in the loco :\00:25
johnvilsackThe point is, there is not even a place to "Get Started"00:25
DPicjohnvilsack: anyone can start a new one. there's no need for a marketing team tehre00:25
FlannelSpreadUbuntu isn't a project for marketing people to contribute to.  The result of the SpreadUbuntu project is a website that you can contribute to.00:25
DPicjohnvilsack: yes there is. the wiki00:25
FlannelDPic: That's an important distinction your comment a smidge ago seemed to confuse.00:26
johnvilsackThe wiki isn't very helpful to a newcomer.00:26
johnvilsackbut I'd like it to be.00:26
leoggthe marketing team should be a point of support for LoCo Teams, not the other way around00:26
johnvilsackI think in my perfect scenario, the Marketing page on the Wiki would have simple buttons:00:26
popeythe loco council is the point of support for loco teams :)00:26
Flannelpopey: Different kind of support00:26
johnvilsack"Contribute Artwork" "View Current Marketing Projects" "Start Your Own Marketing Project", etc.00:26
leoggpopey:  I mean support for marketing efforts00:26
popeyok00:26
popey"support" as in "provide materials to locos, to support them in their advocacy efforts"?00:27
johnvilsacksome of those integrate in tightly with SpreadUbuntu.  but SpreadUbuntu is not the end all be all for marketing.  Its not a holy grail that people are going to flock to for all of their needs00:27
leoggpopey: yes00:27
johnvilsackbecause it can't support them all, and it shouldn't00:27
Flannelpopey: Yes00:27
popeycool00:27
DPicjohnvilsack: i think it can better than we can for 90% of stuff00:27
johnvilsackit needs to be a tool, but it doesn't have to be the whole machine00:27
johnvilsackOnly because the group hasn't tried to have direction.00:28
johnvilsackand it seems like we have people in place that want to help.00:28
Flanneljohnvilsack: Its original/full featured form can be though.  The repository of stuff was just one aspectof the whole spreadubuntu site.00:28
* DPic has a *new* idea for the marketing team.00:28
FlannelThere was an entire website surrounding it, which could also support collaboration of projects and stuff too, should we want00:29
johnvilsackand yet, Get Materials, Make Materials, Translate Materials and Share Materials are the primary buttons and functions of the site that's live.00:29
johnvilsackSo...its a repository00:29
johnvilsackwhich is absolutely necessary00:29
johnvilsackbut again, not the end all be all.00:29
TakyojiThen what does it need?00:29
Flanneljohnvilsack: That's bcause that's *just* the repository section.00:29
johnvilsackWhat I think is needed is something to remove the barrier of helping.00:30
DPicjohnvilsack: it can be expanded and be much more effective than our wiki/team can.00:30
DPicHow about this:00:30
DPici've been working on getting a project off the ground00:30
DPica local project00:30
DPicbut a big one00:30
popey!enter00:30
ubottuPlease try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!00:30
johnvilsackDPic, I appreciate your zest for SpreadUbuntu, but I think they work together, not apart from one another00:30
DPici'm not going to give out the details right now, but we're goign to be setting a precedent for LoCos and FOSS groups00:31
DPicbecause we're creating a system which will allow teams to get fiscal sponsorship for little or no cost00:31
DPici'm also compiling a list of media contacts to send out press releases to. what if the marketing team took up the responsibility of publicising advocacy projects?00:31
DPicsince once this system is ready, a *lot* of them could be popping up00:32
johnvilsackThat sounds like a great project for the group, but no one "thing" is something this team would be responsible for.00:32
johnvilsackBut, I'm going to close out this section with this:00:32
DPicbut there needs to be something00:32
DPicbecause the teems needs some main, regular activity00:32
johnvilsackThis is the perfect example of the type of project you should be able to get to from the main Marketing pages so you can go and contribute.00:33
johnvilsackand a Project Manager should have tasks broken up and accessible for people to do, because that would be effective.00:33
johnvilsacklet people choose their own level of involvement00:33
johnvilsackOk, we're 6 minutes over, so please onto the next topic.00:33
DPicjohnvilsack: usually agenda's allow topics to go on as long as are needed00:34
popeyDPic: not when there is a fixed duration00:34
johnvilsack*** How can we integrate more of the work and knowledge from SpreadUbuntu and other areas into our marketing efforts?00:34
DPicby working on expanding spreadubuntu?00:35
DPicin the areas it's lacking00:35
johnvilsack@vadi I just closed that window, sorry.  Please resend00:35
popeyidentify the areas its lacking00:35
DPicwherever johnvilsack thinks it doesn't do what is needed.00:35
johnvilsackDpic: The question isn't "how can we help SpreadUbuntu" but how to integrate in more tightly.00:36
johnvilsackI think its kind of a poor question, because it really is its own source.00:36
johnvilsackbut there its not accessible through the marketing pages on the wiki easily.00:36
johnvilsacknor can you really get to "anything" without going to SU and having to finger through it all.00:37
johnvilsackSo, I hate my own question :)00:37
Flanneljohnvilsack: File a bug against SU.  There are some problems with it's current implentation, they can be fixed.00:37
johnvilsackThe biggest problem only seems to be getting to it.00:37
johnvilsackIf I go to the main marketing page, I can't get to SpreadUbuntu nor does it even really say "go here because this is where the most activity seems to be"00:38
johnvilsackBut since my question sucked, I'll answer yours :)  Where is the best place for a new person to go to say "I want to hel contribute to spreadUbuntu?"00:38
popeyjohnvilsack: thats in the process of being fixed as they get a .ubuntu.com domain sorted by Canonical IS department00:39
leoggjohnvilsack: add a link in the main marketing page00:39
DPicwhy would they say that? if they're saying that, it's safe to say thay're *at* spreadubuntu00:39
DPicand everything is explained there00:39
johnvilsackBecause I just asked the question.  We can't assume anything.00:39
johnvilsackI don't know where to go.  I'm on the site right now.00:39
DPicthere are four big buttons00:40
popeywell i clicked "learn more"00:40
popeyand found out pretty quickly00:40
popeyit links to a task list, and about how to join the team00:40
popeyone click off the home page00:40
johnvilsackI see some downloads, I can share some stuff if I want, or join a campaign.  But I don't see anywhere that says "join us in helping to develop spreadubuntu from a backend perspective" as opposed to just uploading my poster.00:40
popey"Learn more about SpreadUbuntu"00:40
popey"If you're thinking about actively participating, consider joining our team and the mailing l"00:41
popey+ist00:41
johnvilsackI see that now, thanks.00:41
leoggjohnvilsack:  I don't understand what's the big issue with SU... at least it's one of the components of the marketing team that actually works (not perfectly, but it can be improved)00:41
popeyditto00:41
johnvilsackI'm not saying its broken.00:41
DPicditto00:41
popeyit's a tool in the marketing team arsenal00:41
johnvilsackI think its awesome.00:41
johnvilsackI agree with Popey.00:41
leoggjohnvilsack: let's concentrate on the positive aspects of SU, and see how we can improve it00:42
johnvilsackI honestly feel like the discussions about improving our Marketing Team are some sort of contest between me and everyone who supports SpreadUbuntu.00:42
johnvilsackI don't see it that way, and wish people would see they are different parts of the same machine.00:42
leoggjohnvilsack: SU and the marketing team are not incompatible00:43
johnvilsackThey are when every time I say "Marketing Team" and I have to defend it against SpreadUbuntu.00:43
johnvilsackI personally want to see both succeed.00:43
popeypossibly because you tell us what we need, and people say "we have that already" or "we can implement that easily" in SU00:43
popeywhich seems a valid response00:44
popey"lets use the tools we have and improve them"00:44
popeyrather than starting again00:44
DPici've just seen the marketing team be a distraction that doesn't actually get thigns done, simply because it isn't needed00:44
leoggpopey: +100:44
DPicpopey: +100:44
johnvilsackI agree with that popey and leogg, but not Dpic.00:44
johnvilsackBut whatever.00:44
popeyok00:44
DPicforgive me for being overly cynical00:44
johnvilsackI think we need to use the tools in SU.00:44
popeyso turn this around..00:44
popeyWhat do we _need_, What's _missing_00:45
popey?00:45
johnvilsackI think SU is the major, major part of anything we do00:45
popey<- not a marketing expert, so doesn't know what we need as a team to do effective marketing00:45
popeyso I'm just asking, what do we think we need?00:45
johnvilsackbut we're missing grassroots accessibility.  We're missing any sort of package of a message we're trying to get across.  We're lacking a way for projects to be accessible to newcomers who have osme time to give but don't want to dig around and find things00:45
popeyI think you're massively overplaying the amount of time/effort required to "dig around"00:46
johnvilsackWe havea  great tool for us but we don't have the mechanics to help someone tomorrow.00:46
popeythe information and materials can be made more accessible, sure00:46
popeyand we need more of it00:46
popeybut I dont think we're a lost cause00:46
popeyjohnvilsack: whats the use case that would result in someone not finding what they want?00:47
popeylets say someone steps up to the marketing mailing list - a new person, using ubuntu for 2 years, wants to help..00:47
popeyWhat would we do?00:47
johnvilsackWe, or them?00:47
popeyWe, to support them.00:47
johnvilsackgood question.00:48
popeyWhat would "we" as a team do to help "them" as activists/advocates, to "enable" them.00:48
popeyif we dont know the answer to that question then we have a problem00:48
johnvilsackI would say we have a page that offers easy pathing to get them intelligently to where they want to go.  Give them access to projects that are being run ,how to start their own if one isn't available, access to what a loco is and how they can become active in it, etc00:49
leoggjohnvilsack: that can be easily done in the Ubuntu wiki00:49
johnvilsackif they want to design, promote, etc...give them each pathing that empowers them to find it intuitively.  We can't expect them to know our vernacular, etc.00:49
popeyOk, excellent, so breaking that down.. "an easy to read web page" - DPic has done well to improve the wiki pages.. there is probably room for improvement but we're looking good already00:49
popey"access to projects" - this is going to amount to SU and...?? what ever other projects we (marketing team) come up with right?00:50
popeywhich right now amounts to.. not much, but if we want to we _can_ start additional projects to supplement/contrast with SU, right?00:50
johnvilsackthe next step would be to make sure we have project leaders using systems that show what projects are out there, are breaking it down into small chunks volunteers could help with, and then collaborting with other projects to make sure we are all on the same page and not doing each other's work00:51
popeyok, so we need to gather information about what projects exist00:51
Flannelpopey: Of course.  The additional projects can be anything.00:51
johnvilsackafter that my friends, its all the group.  Then we start individual projects about message, etc. and people will contribute to whichever ones appeal to them most.00:51
popeysome of those may not fall under "marketing team", as they may be "one man band" doing his own thing, which we could pull in and bring under our banner00:51
johnvilsackand democracy wins.00:51
popey..or they could be brand new ideas for projects which come from existing members of the team, such as those ideas you had in the google spreadsheet00:52
johnvilsackThat is really all I am saying needs to happen.  Its not more substantial than that.00:52
popeyI think it mostly amounts to a bit of cat herding, organisation and documenting what we've got.00:52
johnvilsackThere are hundreds of little projects I want to do, but they come after we have a way for newcomers to join in on the fun easily.00:52
popey"build it and they will come"00:52
johnvilsackprecisely.00:52
popeyi mean the other way round :)00:53
popeyfrom the bottom, not the top00:53
johnvilsackObviously, you can see now that this by no means replaces SU but in fact heavily relies on it.00:53
popeyI think we could get into a beauracratic feedback loop if we build infrastructure with no projects00:53
johnvilsackbecause all of these projects would have source code...in the form of materials, etc.00:53
popeyIn my mind projects need to come first (chronologically)00:53
popeyI'd love to continue, but it's 1AM here, and my bed is calling...00:54
popeythanks for coming all.. nn00:54
johnvilsackNo worries popey, I'll be calling the meeting in a few anyways.  Thanks00:54
johnvilsackDoes anyone think that this is duplicating anything or a fruitless endeavor?00:54
popeyOh, and I'll be at UDS if anyone wants a chat00:54
johnvilsackWe don't need to tear anything down.  Its about rebuilding what isn't working and adding to the power of what already exists.00:55
DPici'm not sure exactly what's happening, but i have no objections of what i've heard00:56
DPichow can we help?00:56
johnvilsackThanks for asking :)00:56
johnvilsackWell, based on my selective hearing this evening, here's what I think we decided.00:57
johnvilsackSpreadUbuntu works awesome.  Nobody wants to change it.  There are things that the project needs help with, but its the most positive thing this group has ever done00:57
johnvilsackWe want to make things easier for new people to find, and have them begin helping the groups.  This will probably come in the form of changing the wiki to point to projects and SpreadUbuntu00:58
DPicpointing to spreadubuntu now00:59
DPicwhat else?00:59
johnvilsackWe need to wrangle up better use of (launchpad?) in the marketing team so that we can figure out what projects there are.00:59
leoggThere's already a lot of things going on at the LoCo level, so it may be worth pointing people to those projects00:59
Flanneljohnvilsack: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects/00:59
Flanneljohnvilsack: Wiki would be best00:59
DPicFlannel: was just oging to link to that  =]00:59
Flannel(and it already exists, etc)00:59
johnvilsackWe need to support these projects first by having them break down into chunks that people can break off very easily and do themselves.00:59
Flanneljohnvilsack: That'll happen differently for each project though01:00
johnvilsackand finally, we need to make quite certain that we add alot of linking back to the Locos and explain their role, so people know about them01:00
johnvilsackFlannel: I know.  But hopefully if we start setting some examples, we can set a standard of how people want their project pages to look.01:01
johnvilsackOther than that, that should help set the stage for Marketing people to contribute more.01:01
johnvilsackI was disappointed when I asked if people needed help with projects.  I'm worried that like you said, DPic, there isn't alot of initiative in the group.01:02
DPicthis page might be useful as well https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActivismGuide01:02
johnvilsackTwo things I learned about volunteers:  You can't expect them to go hunting for something to do, and you can't expect them to take it when you tell them they are doing it wrong :)01:03
Flanneljohnvilsack: Last time the MarketingTeam started up, I volunteered to (and never finished) coming up with a "how to start a new project" guide thing (just a few steps) for that page.  I'll see if I can find that and finish/post.01:03
johnvilsackI think the first big step is getting them to the work.  The last one doesn't matter much01:03
johnvilsackFlannel: That would be awesome.01:03
johnvilsackI hope to see many of these "projects" that come of this going right into SpreadUbuntu and making that site more powerful.01:04
Flanneljohnvilsack: MarketingTeam doesn't have to be about contributing to SpreadUbuntu.  Not all of our projects will fit into that page.01:04
johnvilsackI think more than anything, it's going to be the community marketing for Ubuntu that we've needed for so long.01:04
johnvilsackAgreed, but I think that as a window into Marketing, its going to be the portal.01:05
johnvilsackAlright, well that sums it up on my end.  Thanks for being patient.  I eventually got to my point. :)01:05
johnvilsackDoes anyone have anything else?01:05
ScottKDoes the marketing team work on just Ubuntu or other flavors too?01:08
DPicMostly ubuntu,, but i see no problem promoting other flavors01:08
johnvilsackWell then, I thank you all for coming, and I'm glad we got to talk.  I think maybe it got cloudly as to how much everyone thought I wanted to see change, but I'm a firm believer in small steps to a large goal :)01:08
johnvilsackand we all have the same goal :)01:08
johnvilsackTHANK YOU FOR COMING, AND THIS CONCLUDES OUR UBUNTU COMMUNITY MARKETING MEETING01:09
DPicbang your gavel01:09
ScottKjohnvilsack: Thanks for asking if anyone had anything else and then ignoring questions.01:09
DPicScottK: i answered you.01:09
johnvilsackScottk: DPic answered you :)01:09
johnvilsackSorry about that.01:09
ScottKWell I was typing a followup01:10
ScottKNot in a particularly useful way01:10
johnvilsackWee can certainly talk about it :)01:10
DPicScottK: how could we ignore something that you haven't sent yet?01:10
DPicgo ahead and send it.01:10
ScottKDPic: 30 seconds between an answer and closing the meeting really doesn't give one a chance01:11
ScottKNevermind.01:11
FlannelScottK: There's no reason to restrict ourselves to the Ubuntu flavor.  "Ubuntu" in this case is the distro, not the flavor.01:11
DPicScottK: if you have just gone ahead and sked we would've answered01:11
DPici'm not sure what a more useful answer would've been. instead of asking for clarifying, we're now areguing about whether we ignored you when you didn't even try asking01:12
johnvilsackTrust me when I say that if you have any questions, we can answer them.  But other distros technically aren't on this evenings docket.  So we can talk about it, but this was more about the marketing team mechanics01:12
johnvilsackWe're all still here though01:12
DPicScottK: you have the floor.01:13
ScottKIn Karmic we started a new flavor, Kubuntu Netbook.01:13
ScottKWe have about zero marketing so far.01:14
* ScottK is a developer, not a marketer.01:14
ScottKWe have one or two people who have expressed an interest in helping with Kubuntu related marketing and I was wondering how this team's work might also help with this.01:14
johnvilsackI most definitely think that people would help01:15
johnvilsackWell, assuming we can get people to do anything :)01:15
johnvilsackBut I definitely think there is room for projects of other *buntu flavors01:15
johnvilsackI took the question to mean Debian, Gentoo, etc.01:15
ScottKIt sounds to me like you are currently in an organizational phase?01:16
DPicScottK: been stuck here for a while =]01:16
ScottKOK.01:16
ScottKFor your next meeting, you might want to also send the announcment to kubuntu-devel as I think the Kubuntu people interested in marketing are subscribed there.01:17
ScottK(you  will have to subscribe to post)01:17
ScottKSo I guess that's my suggestion for now, given where you are, so that people working in the different *buntu flavors can work together.01:18
johnvilsackI think that's something we should definitely cover.01:18
johnvilsackI'll post something in the mailing list for you and see what people say.01:18
johnvilsackI agree though, it seems like it would be the perfect place to combine our energies01:19
FlannelIs there another meeting coming up?  Should we move this to #ubuntu-marketing?01:19
ScottKThat was all I had.01:19
DPicFlannel: ubuntu-meeting is logged. u-marketing is not01:20
johnvilsackI think I'm all done.01:22
johnvilsackThanks everyone :)01:22
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sbalneavEdubuntu meeting now?18:03
mhall119|workis there?18:03
Nubaeme too18:05
sbalneavLemme check the list18:05
sbalneavah, no18:07
sbalneav19:00 utc18:07
sbalneavI think it's 18:00 now.18:07
sbalneavhold on, lemme verigy18:07
mhall119|workyeah, it's currently 18:0718:07
sbalneavok, so another hour18:08
sbalneavwell, 53 minutes18:08
mhall119|work51 now18:09
Nubaeso what s on the agenda18:13
NubaeI promised to write a guide to becoming a developer18:14
Nubaeor something like that18:14
sbalneavNubae: Dunno.18:17
sbalneavOne supposes first order of business should be EC stuff: now woth LaserJock gone, we need a "leader" :)18:17
Nubaeyeah, I think that kinda naturally lands on your lap unfortunately18:18
Nubaeor fortunately18:18
Nubaedepending on how u loook at it18:18
Nubaebut I'd like to document the experience so that when people go off into hiatus, we know what to do18:19
Nubaethis... ok, so long and thanks for all the fish...18:19
Nubaedoesnt work so well with a distro leader18:19
Nubae:-)18:19
sbalneavMy lap?! Cripes...18:20
sbalneavI'm nobody18:20
Nubaepast tense...18:22
Nubaejeez, at least in your email you seemed to be clear headed and strong about this18:23
Nubaethat is the sbalneav that needs to be here18:23
Nubaeso, Laserjock is leaving completely or he's just passing over the wheel?18:27
highvoltageNubae: he's stepping down from his EC role, he said he'll still be around if we need him18:30
highvoltagesbalneav: edubuntu meeting is in about 30 minutes18:30
sbalneavNubae: There's a bit of a difference between "Having good ideas" to being the leader :)18:34
* alkisg votes sbalneav for president18:36
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Nubaesbalneav, I think u are going to find ureself in the position if u want it or not18:38
sbalneavsigh18:44
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew-afk
Nubaeanyway it must have SOME perks18:52
sbalneavWhat must have some perks? :)18:53
Nubaeso... say I was just joe schmoe from the street... I found ubuntu... had some windows experience say and wanted to help out, eventually even being a dev or god help us MOTU18:53
Nubaethe position18:53
sbalneavHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAA18:54
sbalneav<snort>*wheze* you're funny18:54
Nubaecan u explain the journey18:54
NubaeI'm being totally serious now18:55
sbalneavNo, because I haven't quite figured it out myself.18:55
Nubaethats the main reason it needs documenting18:55
sbalneavHanging out on the irc channel helps18:55
jbichasbalneav: besides the loss of even and getting blamed for failure, you can take credit when things go well :-)18:55
Nubaeu CAN tell me what got u this far18:55
cody-somervillehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition18:56
jbicha*even more time18:56
Nubaeok, hanging out on irc is a valid point18:56
Nubaeit is a requirement18:56
sbalneavNubae: I've been involved with this... this... whatever our little ecosystem is, since like, 198818:56
Nubaethe mailing list too I suppose18:56
Nubaetry to get  mentor18:57
sbalneavI've just "always been here"18:57
Nubaelearn bash, python, and LTSP in and out18:57
Nubaehmmm..... get used to the tools devhelp18:58
sbalneavThe problem is, with any project like this, you get a lot of people who have a vague sense they want to "help"18:58
Nubaeand d-feet18:58
highvoltagehi!18:58
Nubaejeez u know some of these things i didnt even figure out myself till recently18:58
Nubaeu know how god damn useful devhelp is18:58
sbalneavbut end up being completely unwilling to make the time, committment, and effort necessary to effect any useful work.18:58
sbalneavWithout putting too fine a point on it.18:58
sbalneav*chough*ace_suarez*cough*18:59
highvoltagenow now, be nice18:59
Nubaeright, but if they see the document, its size its scope and are still willing to give it a go18:59
Nubaethen cool18:59
Nubaeright but if he saw a dev manual of several 1000 pages19:00
* stgraber waves to everyone19:00
Nubaeit might have been different19:00
sbalneavDo I lie?  I'm simply saying the reality.19:00
stgrabergoing to get some water, will be there in a minute19:00
highvoltageseems like everyone is here for the meeting eh?19:00
alkisg1ace did give time and effort. He just didn't agree with the community on what things to do and how.19:00
highvoltageI guess it's aboot time we get started by the looks of things, eh?19:00
alkisg1A bulleted list of where we need help would be nice...19:00
* jbicha says hi19:00
highvoltage(I'm probably laying on the Canadian a bit thick there)19:00
Nubaewe say... ok, u wanna be a dev... go read that dev manual (yez we know its 1456 pages long)19:00
highvoltageAgenda is up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda19:01
sbalneavTranslation, he didn't want to give the time and effort to either conform to the community standards, or invest the time and effort to change the community standards.19:01
highvoltageanyone want to take notes for the list?19:01
sbalneavI'm all in favour of a dev manual19:01
Nubaeafter reading the manual, I think we'd have weeded out19:01
sbalneavbut I think these things already exist19:01
sbalneavubuntu packaging guide, etc.19:01
Nubaelike with ltsp19:01
Nubaehelps loads19:02
highvoltageok I guess it will be me then19:02
Nubaeas does the telepathy manual19:02
* highvoltage taps the mic HELLO IS THIS THING ON19:02
sbalneavat any rate.19:02
* sbalneav yields floor19:02
stgraberalright, I'm here now ;)19:02
Nubaethere are no questioons there about oh, should I become a dev19:02
Nubaeok19:02
alkisg1Hey guys let us listen to the guy with the mic :)19:03
highvoltageheh19:03
highvoltageok first up, as many of you will know, next week is the UDS (Ubuntu Developer Summit)19:03
stgraberanyone outside of me who will be in Dallas for UDS ?19:03
sbalneavNot I19:04
highvoltageso far there are 2 sessions registered that directly applies to Edubuntu:19:04
highvoltage * https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-lucid-edubuntu-community19:04
highvoltage * https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-lucid-edubuntu-roadmap19:04
highvoltageand then there's also one for LTSP, for those who are intersted:19:05
highvoltage * https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-ltsp19:05
stgraberok, so I'll be onsite for these sessions, I'm giving a plenary session on Wednesday and so hope to get a few more interested people there19:05
alkisg1stgraber: and some answers about the things laserjock asked canonical about edubuntu...19:05
stgraberI'll then be looking at IRC during the sessions and will also be on skype if sound quality isn't good enough in the room19:05
highvoltagestgraber was kind enough to set them up19:05
Nubaehas M Shuttleworth shown any more interested in edu?19:05
alkisg1(i.e. name trademark, future plans etc)19:05
stgrabercurrent plans from Canonical regarding Edubuntu is to have it handled by the community19:05
highvoltagethere's a schedule of when the sessions take place when you scroll down on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/19:06
stgraberthe EC has been in touch with the CC recently to prepare things like elections, team handling, ...19:06
=== alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
stgraberso currently, we'll continue with Edubuntu, Ubuntu for education can still be used by Canonical from time to time and we still have the same support as other derivatives (except that we have part of our packages in Main)19:07
alkisgSounds nice19:07
highvoltageimho we should merge it with edubuntu, since the Ubuntu in Education list is mostly floating around with no one taking care of it19:07
stgraberwe had a LONG discussion with the CC about most of that and also attended a few TB meetings to deal with more technical stuff and things like commerical support19:07
Nubaebut from the lips of the man himself, nothing about edu then?19:07
highvoltageunless it's something that we adopt19:07
stgraberhighvoltage: agreed, though "Ubuntu for education" is still AFAIK the commercial title on ubuntu.com19:08
sbalneavWith the archive re-org, once someone becomes a motu, does that mean that we can maintain our packages ourselved?19:08
highvoltageNubae: just a second... I'm just looking for a mail he sent19:08
stgrabersbalneav: there shouldn't be motu actually19:08
stgraberthere'll be something like edubuntu-dev19:08
stgraberand the members will have upload rights to packaged handled by edubuntu-dev19:09
stgraber(that's how I understand it, not sure all of that is right)19:09
highvoltageNubae: we sent an update to the CC about a month ago and Mark said "Glad to see forward motion on edubuntu - thank you!"19:09
sbalneavok, so here's my question.  I'm currently planning on becoming "motu". should I bother with that then? Or just keep fixing packages and putting them in the edubuntu-dev ppa19:09
stgraberNubae: Mark is happy to see edubuntu going forward but Canonical won't put any effort in it just yet19:09
highvoltageNubae: not sure if that answers your question :)19:10
stgrabersbalneav: issue is we don't have a clear deadline on that archive reorganization or how it'll exactly be handled for Edubuntu19:10
sbalneav"Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I'll tell YOU what you value"19:10
stgraberfor example, I was talking with Jordan this morning and he said, that these teams will likely have to be approved and additional conditions on their membership will be applied19:10
alkisgWho's gonna take up all the seeds & DVD work that LaserJock did?19:11
jbichastgraber: but is the archive re-org actually happening any time soon, could it still be a year or so away?19:11
stgraberso not everyone can join edubuntu-dev and have upload rights to package that used to be in main and universe19:11
highvoltagealkisg: they shouldn't require massive changes, except for when we get rid of the alternate installation19:11
stgraberjbicha: it's happening, AFAIK a few teams were already decided as well as packages list, boards are also being reorganized for that, ...19:11
highvoltagealkisg: stgraber is a core-dev at least so he can make and sponsor changes19:12
sbalneavPersonally, archive reorg aside, I'd perfer any "edubuntu" package that's NOT part of ubuntu itself should get demoted to universe.19:12
sbalneavthat lowers the bar to beccoming an edubuntu dev.19:12
alkisghighvoltage, ok, as long as we have the know-how to even make 1 package change :)19:12
highvoltagealkisg: and we do!19:12
stgrabersbalneav: that's why I'd like to have an idea of when we can expect the archive reorg to take effect, because I don't want to go through the pain of demoting packages, update seed, ...19:12
sbalneavright19:13
stgraberif a few weeks/months after, everything goes in main19:13
sbalneavstgraber++19:13
Nubaethought stgraber was motu actually19:13
highvoltageI think there's too many unknowns with the package re-organisation to have to discuss it now19:13
sbalneavok, table it then.19:13
highvoltageNubae: he became core-dev recently19:13
stgraberNubae: nope, I'm a Coredev since June or some like that19:13
highvoltageNubae: I became motu recently though19:13
Nubaeah ok19:13
Nubaemust be thinking of someone else19:13
Nubaeoh qfunk19:13
alkisgDoes waiting for the archive reorg mean that we might lose any Lucid deadlines?19:14
sbalneavand I'm plannin on becoming one, or whatever19:14
stgraberalkisg: I don't think so19:14
stgraberalkisg: I'm still quite present around here19:14
stgraberalso highvoltage is now working with me at Revolution Linux19:14
Nubaealllthough qfunk isnt all that vocal19:14
stgraberand I'm not the only Coredev at Revolution Linux19:14
Nubaecould be more19:14
sbalneavalkisg: no, worst case, if we fix something, we just get (stgraber|highvoltage) to sponsor it.19:14
stgraberso we can easily find a coredev to sponsor something19:14
alkisgNice19:14
sbalneavI'll officially put my name forward for ec19:15
stgrabersbalneav: thanks for that19:15
NubaeI'd really like working on getting that list of apps that I pasted a couple of times to the list19:15
Nubaethey are universe apps19:15
stgraberI'm still not exactly sure on how the EC will handle that, but we plan to have an announcement for elections this week or early next week19:15
highvoltagesbalneav: great!19:16
Nubaebut would quickly grow edubuntu19:16
stgraberas it's something we need to address ASAP19:16
Nubaegive it some cred19:16
sbalneavThere a process for that?  Fill my name in on a wiki page?  Give a skin sample from the back of my neck?  Kiss someone's backside? etc.19:16
Nubaeas far as I know its create a seed19:16
highvoltageok let's move on to EC elections, it was last on our agenda19:16
Nubaesimilar to the ones already created19:16
highvoltagebut we can just as well do it now19:16
Nubaegive it a a name19:16
stgrabersbalneav: we'll announce that quite soon, that's something both the current EC members and the CC need to do19:16
Nubaeand add the apps19:16
highvoltage(hmm, we should actually be using mootbot)19:16
stgraberok, EC elections then19:17
Nubaeoh... btw... can I be a member19:17
alkisg(we haven't even started the meeting :))19:17
alkisg(I mean through a bot command)19:17
highvoltageby the discussions I assume you are all aware of the EC and that there will be elections taking place soon?19:17
Nubae:-) this was never formally done19:17
Nubae:-)19:17
highvoltagewe've been discussing it with the CC and we'll have a round of nominations for a week, and then the week after we'll have the elections19:17
sbalneavNubae: I think the "microphone" thing was it. :)19:18
stgraberNubae: we need the EC to have quorum for that, currently we aren't quite enough (though in case of emergency we can ask LaserJock to attend)19:18
Nubaeok, its just getting a bit ridiculous now since I've been doing heavy lifting for 2 years now19:18
alkisghighvoltage: better give a single-line-definition of EC and CC...19:19
highvoltagestgraber: I think it would be nice to get the ball rolling, if we announce tomorrow we could still get it on the fridge and do the nominations next week19:19
jbichahow do EC nominations work? do people have to be nominated before the elections?19:19
stgraberEC (Edubuntu Council), CC (Community Council)19:19
Nubaeand I I only started doing heavy lifiting fo opensuse couple months ago and am a core-dev tnere19:19
Nubaethere19:19
stgraberhighvoltage: agreed19:19
stgraberhang on a sec, we have a wiki document I believe19:19
highvoltageNubae: yeah laserjock told me about that19:20
highvoltageNubae: you're not a motu yet are you?19:20
stgraberhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Council19:20
Nubaeno, havent gotten round to applying19:20
=== fader|lunch is now known as fader
Nubaeneed to feel a little bit more comfortable packaging officially19:21
highvoltageNubae: that's perhaps something we should work towards19:21
Nubaemost of the packaging I've done was for non official distro19:21
Nubaek19:21
highvoltageNubae: that's a good start at least19:21
sbalneavI think that's where the edubuntu-dev ppa's would come in.19:22
* alkisg signs up for any packaging lessons to be given...19:22
highvoltagewe've drifted off the EC Elections topic again somehow19:22
Nubaeso for that basically, package up some things show em off to u guys19:22
highvoltagebut I think edubuntu-specific packaging lessons might be useful19:22
stgraberlet's focus a bit on EC elections, please ;)19:22
highvoltagewe could perhaps colaboratively fix a bug in gcompris and a few other things at some point, etc19:22
stgraberthat's currently the first big thing to do if we want to have a strong edubuntu community19:22
sbalneavok, so they'll be announced19:22
alkisgWhat's to focus? sbalneav applies, we vote him, end of story :D19:22
sbalneavWell, we need others as well, correct?19:23
stgraberalkisg: nope, we need to have the CC organize that, it's not so simple ;)19:23
alkisgAh19:23
highvoltagesbalneav: I forgot some of the details, where would nominations be sent again, to the CC?19:23
stgraberhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Council19:23
highvoltagesbalneav: or would we just do that publicly on the list?19:23
alkisgDoes EC need 5 members? Or are 4 enough?19:23
stgraber^^ that's the current process19:23
highvoltageah yes! I actually noted it there (shew)19:24
sbalneavWell, currenly, we only have 3 members19:24
Nubaehmmm......so whats difference between CC and EC19:24
highvoltageNubae: EC is edubuntu-specific, it's a delegated team of the CC19:24
sbalneavsince LaserJock's dropping out, and I replace him, that still leaves 2 people who should apply.19:24
stgraberNubae: CC is Community Council, so for Ubuntu19:24
stgraberNubae: EC is Edubuntu Council, so for Edubuntu19:24
highvoltageNubae: although in Edubuntu, the EC also oversees technical aspects of the system and the project19:25
stgraberand the CC owns the EC19:25
sbalneavPersonally, I'd vote for both Nubae and alkisg for long term and sustained contributions.19:25
stgraberso we can't change our members without going through them for approval and organization of the elections19:25
* alkisg will be around in education & ubuntu for a long, long time, but I'm not actually using the edubuntu DVD in my classrooms :(19:25
Nubaeso for CC basically19:25
highvoltagesbalneav: I think alkisg is already a member isn't he?19:25
* highvoltage checks19:25
alkisgI'm an edubuntu member19:25
jbichaso if Nubae gets elected to the EC, then he should automatically be an Edubuntu Member, right? hmm...19:26
sbalneavalkisg: right, but you may at some point.19:26
* Nubae slaps alkisg with a fidsh19:26
Nubaeso for CC basically)19:26
alkisgI hope so :)19:26
stgraberlet me have a quick look through my mails19:26
sbalneavCurrently, the way I see it, we've got 5 "regulars"19:26
Nubaeah, hence the push for motu19:26
Nubaerighto19:27
stgraberI know I have somewhere the exact process of who can apply and who can vote19:27
sbalneavsbalneav, stgraber, highvoltage, Nubae, and alkisg19:27
stgraber(as approved by the CC)19:27
sbalneavwith jbicha making a strong showing recently19:27
stgraber"We figured that there's no harm in making nominations open to a broader19:27
stgraber> group of people (~ubuntu-members), although the potential nominees would19:27
stgraber> be ~edubuntu-members (which is admittedly still a relative small group)."19:27
stgraberso that basically means you need to be at least an Ubuntu member to apply for EC (or be proposed), if you are only an Ubuntu member, you'll automatically be granted Edubuntu membership19:28
Nubaeqfunk recently became motu19:28
* highvoltage saw that19:28
Nubaebut he hasnt been so active in edubuntu19:28
alkisgIs MOTUship a requirement for EC members? Why do we keep mentioning it?19:29
highvoltageNubae: yep we could perhaps try to pull him in :)19:29
Nubaesince his beef with arctec19:29
Nubaeyeah19:29
stgraberalkisg: nope, but Ubuntu membership is19:29
highvoltagealkisg: not at all, but at least some technical background is highly beneficial19:29
jbichaah, chicken and egg, Nubae can't be EC unless he's EM first but he can't be EM because we don't have enough in the EC unless we get LaserJock to assist19:29
highvoltagealkisg: especially since some technical role will be expected19:29
alkisgjbicha: ah, I got it, thanks :)19:29
highvoltagejbicha: yes that's why we need to fix up the EC asap19:30
highvoltagejbicha: *but*, he could still potentially become a member in time19:30
NubaeI'd also push for hilton to be involved somehow19:30
alkisghighvoltage: sure, I don't suppose someone will apply for EC membership and not have technical experience...19:30
Nubaehe's got quite a vested interest19:30
highvoltagestgraber: jordan said that he's still available as EC member until the new council is elected right?19:30
stgraberhighvoltage: yes19:31
Nubaethen there's ahmuck who has been around for a while19:31
alkisgI don't think Ahmuch is focuced in edubuntu19:31
highvoltagestgraber: so technically we could still have an EC now or tomorrow?19:31
alkisgHe's looking around for alternatives...19:31
Nubaeah ok19:31
stgraberhighvoltage: yes19:32
Nubaejonny19:32
highvoltageI pinged him on jabber now, although his status says away19:32
sbalneavWell, if the ec can get together, and grant Nubae his edubuntu-membership19:32
Nubaehes more gentoo I guess19:32
sbalneavthat would clear the way to alkisg and Nubae becoming ec19:32
highvoltageNubae, alkisg: I suggest you get your membership applications up to shape, we may be able to do an impromptu meeting or even do it over mailing lists19:33
alkisgMaybe I could join the EC (as I'm already an edubuntu member), and then vote for nubae :)19:33
stgraberright, we'll then have sbalneav, alkisg and Nubae propose themselves for EC membership, then Edubuntu members can vote and that's it19:33
highvoltagealkisg: sorry, not aimed at you, you're already a member :)19:33
stgraberknowing that Edubuntu members is pretty much the future EC as we discuss it at the moment ;)19:33
Nubaeok ok, so practically, what needs to be done?19:34
stgraberNubae: good wikipage will help19:34
highvoltageNubae: do you have an application page on your wiki namespace?19:34
Nubaeummm... wiki page?19:34
NubaeI have nubae.com19:34
alkisgNubae: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlkisGeorgopoulos19:35
Nubaeand my launchpad page19:35
Nubaemy sugar memebership page....19:35
Nubaeah thanks alkisg19:35
NubaeI shall innovate on yours19:35
alkisgNubae: see also other people's pages, e.g. stgraber's, laserjock's etc19:36
highvoltageNubae: see Preperation on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership19:36
Nubaekinda like a linked in page but for ubuntu19:37
highvoltageyep, it's basically a page with your history and recommendations, so very much like a linkedin page19:37
highvoltageNubae: feel free to also link to your linkedin page if you want19:38
highvoltageare we fine with scheduling the nomination period for next week?19:38
* stgraber is19:39
highvoltageor do we want to allow more time to make sure that we can approve some members who want to stand for EC?19:39
highvoltages/approve/review/ :)19:39
stgraber;)19:39
stgraberI'd really like to have that going for next week19:39
highvoltageI guess, worst case scenario we could do it by e-mail, so we should be able to do it19:40
stgraberas I'll be presenting Edubuntu at UDS19:40
highvoltageI'm also in favour of getting it rolling for next week19:40
* alkisg thinks a week is more than enough for any preperation needed...19:40
stgraberand want to show a well working community19:40
highvoltageindeed, ok so that's done then, nominations will start next week19:40
highvoltageshall we move on?19:41
Nubaeyep19:41
NubaeI'll have my wiki page up in next couple days19:41
highvoltageok, Luanchpad teams...19:42
highvoltagewe had a whole lot of LP teams owned by lots of different people19:42
jbichaNubae: this might be helpful too: http://blogs.ubuntu-nl.org/dennis/2009/05/13/how-to-become-an-ubuntu-member-the-easy-way/19:42
highvoltageone moment please... I have LaserJock on jabber19:42
stgraberI'll be discussing with highvoltage for the exact course of actions for EC nominations, you'll get an e-mail about it on all edubuntu mailing lists and fridge probably tomorrow19:42
stgraber(we'll need to go through the exact process we agreed on with the community council)19:43
stgraberjbicha: becoming an edubuntu member or a regular member is quite different19:43
Nubaesounds good19:43
highvoltageok LP teams can wait19:44
stgraberI'm both a EC member and a membership approval board member and I don't really look at the same things depending on if you apply for Ubuntu or Edubuntu membership19:44
stgraberusually I know Edubuntu contributors a lot better than the guys I have to review for Ubuntu membership19:44
Nubaehi  LaserJock19:44
LaserJockhi Nubae19:44
stgraberhi Jordan !19:44
jbichastgraber: right, the path is different but the end result is similar (although with the archive reorg...)19:45
highvoltagethanks for coming LaserJock19:45
LaserJockyou caught me at a good time, just got back from a late lunch19:45
* highvoltage hits the EC meeting gong *GONG*19:45
stgraberyeah !! :)19:45
LaserJockagenda?19:46
highvoltageNubae: you're name is up on the agenda for membership (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda)19:46
stgraberNubae is pretty much the agenda ;)19:46
highvoltagestgraber: well, for membership yes19:46
highvoltageLaserJock: we've been having an edubuntu meeting the last 45 minutes, we've discussed UDS Lucid and the EC elections already19:47
LaserJockoh, ok19:47
highvoltageNubae: are you still here?19:47
sbalneavNubae: awake awake fire foes awake!19:48
Nubaeyeah sorry19:48
highvoltageNubae: tell us about yourself and your involvement with Edubuntu19:49
Nubaeyah hit me with your rythm stick19:49
highvoltage(and links to your wiki/web/etc pages would also be nice)19:49
stgraberhttps://edge.launchpad.net/~dvanassche19:50
Nubaewell, I've cleaned up the edubuntu page bit, wiriting a little about every app availble on the current distros19:50
NubaeI also suggested which ones should be (universe based) on the DVD19:51
Nubaehelped with release (website)19:51
Nubaegosh...  wrote a lot of LTSP handbook19:52
alkisgI think mentioning your current occupation would also be of interest...19:52
sbalneavSeveral chapters were Nubae's work.19:52
Nubaewrote little edu app called pyqclic19:52
highvoltageNubae: I know where you work but it's best to tell us anyway, we make a formal decision based on your input so it's best to explain it to us as if we didn't know you19:53
Nubaeah... wwell, was until recently working for guadalinex-edu largest edu distro in the world19:53
NubaeI did leave this position willingly though19:53
Nubaeas it was far too beaurocratic19:53
Nubae basically, loads of paper work19:53
* dinda facepalms having totally forgot this meeting19:54
LaserJockany bug or packaging work in Ubuntu?19:54
Nubaeand I would be luck if what I documentd went to the rooad19:54
highvoltageNubae: you said that you'd like to apply for EC if your ubuntu-membership is granted, you will have to deal with some beaurocracy as well then19:54
Nubaewell, bugs yes, packaging outside ubuntu, never officially19:54
dindahighvoltage: can I catch you folks up on some news in #edubuntu after this meeting?19:54
highvoltagedinda: yep19:54
stgraberdinda: sure19:54
highvoltageNubae: are you fine with dealing with some beaurocracy?19:55
Nubaethis is a different kind of beurocrac19:55
LaserJockNubae: what are your plans for Edubuntu 10.04?19:55
dindagreat, give me a few minutes to read the log and will meet you folks over there in a bit19:55
Nubaewhat I meant was that basically the great ideas we had w├žere never gonna see the light19:56
highvoltageNubae: ok19:56
highvoltageNubae: if not for 10.04, what is your future plans for Edubuntu?19:56
Nubaei dont mind paper work19:56
Nubaeno problem with it19:56
highvoltageor what would you like to see happening in Edubuntu?19:56
Nubaebut I like to see movement19:56
Nubaewell, for one I think we can make great use of the underlying telepathy layer19:57
Nubaethe ways are too many to tell19:57
Nubaebut in immedidate future mkaing the meta package of universe edu apps we kinda tested would be nice19:58
Nubaeto grow edubuntu give it some cred19:58
highvoltageNubae: what brings you to education?19:58
NubaeI believe everyone should have the same right to an education no matter their race, color, sex, or whatever19:59
Nubaebasically it should be free19:59
Nubaeand it is THE way we will make a better world20:00
Nubaea laptop in ever childs hands would be a wonderful thing20:00
Nubaeand it may still happen in our lifetimes20:01
Nubaeits one thing we can dare be idealist about20:01
alkisgWhat are you currently working on? pyclic?20:01
alkisgsugar?20:01
LaserJockNubae: you sort of took a break for Karmic and were doing quite a bit of work with openSUSE Education, what do you think Edubuntu could learn from that project?20:01
Nubaewell, pyclic started off as a simple point and click on an image quiz20:01
highvoltageNubae: you mentioned that you have core-dev like status at opensuse, would you be interested in doing anything that could bridge our relationship with opensuse and do some possible collaboration?20:02
Nubaebut input from others has turned it into a quiz fora while subject with a range of different types of questions20:02
NubaeI'd like to make it compatible with moodle20:02
Nubaewell, opensuse build service is amazing20:02
Nubaeand if we can somehow use that20:03
Nubaeand suse studio20:03
Nubaeto lighten our work load that would be great20:03
NubaeI havent studied to what extent that is possible, but cyberorg keeps trying to convince me that its all possible20:04
highvoltageyeah we probably won't ever use that, for edubuntu's purposes canonical's build servers are more than sufficient20:04
Nubaeu mean bulld service or suse studio?20:05
highvoltageboth20:05
LaserJockprobably either/both20:05
highvoltageNubae: if we build packages in their buildd it won't be in the ubuntu archives, that would be kind of pointless20:06
Nubaeok cool, u dont want me to study the possibility?20:06
Nubaewell, sure, u can link it to wherever u like20:06
LaserJockNubae: if you had to be the "leader" of any area in Edubuntu (art, docs, QA, .iso building, etc.) what would you most likely be interested in20:06
highvoltageNubae: canonical won't host images that we built elsewhere, and reasonably so, so that's not really an option for us either20:06
Nubaeright but obs is open source20:06
Nubaewe can take it and stick it on uuntu servers20:07
LaserJockNubae: right, but we've already got package and .iso builders that work very well20:07
stgrabereverythings that's part of Edubuntu must be built on Canonical's buildds and signed by the archive gpg key that's only available on Canonical's buildds20:07
LaserJockin terms of Edubuntu20:07
LaserJockanyway, that's a tad off-topic I think20:07
stgraberthough it probably can be useful to some of our users for their own homemade distro20:07
Nubaeok, how does that stop us using obs to build debs on ubuntu servers signed with ubuntu keys?20:08
Nubaeanyway, perhaps it deserves some research?20:08
Nubaeor should we disregard it20:08
NubaeI'm just asking20:08
stgraberbecause the ubuntu key is only available inside Canonical's DC, so any binary compiled outside of it can't ever enter the archive20:09
highvoltageNubae: I think it's best to make the OpenSUSE build system(s) a seperate discussion20:09
stgraberhighvoltage: +120:09
Nubaesusestudio is totally different20:09
highvoltageNubae: the short of it is that we can't and won't use it for official builds, we can talk about the details later if you want20:09
Nubaeit basically allows u to create a distro by pointing and clicking20:09
Nubaeprobably not of interest20:10
Nubaeoutside being a curiosity20:10
LaserJocksusestudio might be a possibility but seems like a huge maintenance burden20:10
highvoltagealso, I think as stgraber said, it could perhaps be useful for custom edubuntu spins20:11
Nubaeoh... but ONE area where we really DO wnat collaboration is linux-for-education.org20:11
Nubaein fact I've put 2 ubuntu specific moodle courses up there20:11
Nubaeits totally distro agnostic20:11
LaserJockperhaps it would be useful to collaborate with the Ubuntu Learning Project on that20:12
highvoltageNubae: I'd like some expansion on a question I asked you earlier, do you think there's scope for collaboration between edubuntu and opensuse-edu?20:12
highvoltageNubae: and would you be willing to drive some of that?20:12
Nubaeand really the only way to get a place with large amounts of lesson plans i by doing this together20:12
Nubaewell, I already do pretty much all of linux-for-education.org sadly, though slowly people are coming on board.... but would be great to get some more courses on there... the 2 edubuntu ones we have up there are20:13
Nubaethe perfect edubuntu deesktop20:14
Nubaeand jazzing up your deesktop20:14
Nubaebut I duuno how to drive more people to it?20:14
highvoltageNubae: I asked about edubuntu and opensuse-edu, not linux-for-education ;)20:15
Nubaethere are about 8-9 sugar courses, and loads of open source stuff20:15
Nubaewell, that is kind of the combination of the 2 in lesson plan format20:16
Nubaewhat do u mean more specifically?20:16
LaserJocktechnology wise, process wise, community wise20:17
highvoltageNubae: part of edubuntu is that we want to extend to similar projects and work on common problems together20:17
dindaNubae:  the ubuntu learning project is doing similar stuff to the linux-for-education site, could your courses be housed in both places?20:17
Nubaeok, tech, we spoke about... basically we wanna go our own way mostly right?20:17
highvoltageNubae: is opensuse-edu open to collaborate on common things?20:18
Nubaedinda, absolutely20:18
highvoltageNubae: for build services, etc, yes.20:18
Nubaehighvoltage, very much so20:18
mhall119|workdinda: I spoke to pleia2 about that20:18
mhall119|workcombining linux-for-education and ubuntu-learning20:18
NubaeI think working on something that involves telepathy together would be cool20:19
mhall119|workshe says as long as the license is compatible, then it's golden20:19
Nubaei dont know what yet, but some kinda of authentication system20:19
highvoltageI have no further questions20:19
Nubaesomething that would be like ldap, but easier20:19
stgraberI'm good too, thanks highvoltage for asking all the questions ;)20:20
LaserJockNubae: so what made you come "back" to Edubuntu?20:20
Nubaeand involve more services20:20
Nubaeits not that I ever left20:20
Nubaeits just that I discovered build service20:20
Nubaebecame sugar maintainer for opensuse20:20
Nubaeetc20:20
Nubaebut I've always been on this channel20:21
LaserJockbut your last significant technical contribution was over 6 months ago20:21
LaserJockhow will that change?20:21
mhall119|workNubae: ubuntu-learning wants to start producing moodle courses, so those could be included into linux-for-education20:21
mhall119|worksorry if I'm interrupting20:21
highvoltageapologies accepted, you can talk about that after the EC section ;)20:21
NubaeLaserJock, the 2 moodle courses I made specifically for linux-for-education.org was about a month aho20:21
Nubaeago20:21
=== robbiew-afk is now known as robbiew
Nubaeok, its not direct, but its really just for edubuntu20:22
LaserJockhighvoltage, stgraber: you guys ready?20:22
Nubaealso pyqclic is being developed on ubuntu20:23
Nubaei wouldnt even know if it works on suse20:23
stgraberLaserJock: yes20:23
highvoltageI am20:23
LaserJockk, I'm ready then20:23
Nubaeby the way pyqclic is ready for anyone to see use at the sugar git repos, though I wanna really expand it to be the quiz tool for subjects of choice20:24
highvoltage+1 on the grounds that he's been involved for so long and that he'll probably be for a long time still, and for his passion and commitment to the cause20:24
sbalneavNubae: you know git?20:24
Nubaehave ta.... its required for sugar20:25
sbalneavgood, you can help me in a bit.20:25
Nubaegit push git pull git20:25
Nubaek20:25
stgraber+1 for being around for a long time, helping with LTSP and commitment to helping education with linux20:25
Nubaemhall119|work, would be good for us to just mirror whatever is on each one20:27
LaserJock+1 , based on past contributions and the confidence of future ones. Please don't prove me wrong.20:27
highvoltageNubae: congrats that'20:27
stgrabercongrats and welcome aboard20:27
highvoltageNubae: congrats that's 3/3! Welcome!20:27
* Nubae goes to the corner store and gets wasted and says "suckers"20:28
Nubae:-)20:28
dindaNubae: congrats!20:28
Nubaethat was more for LaserJock20:28
mhall119|workNubae: is there any way to automagically replicate moodle courses?20:28
sbalneav\o/ Nubae20:28
Nubaelet me check there must be20:28
alkisg Welcome on board Nubae :) (not that you weren't already...)20:29
Nubaesbalneav, what git work do u need?20:29
dindamhall119|work: yes, they're pretty easy to export/import across Moodle servers20:29
Nubaekiind thanks for all the kind words20:30
mhall119|workdinda: is that manual?  or is there a way to automate it?20:30
dindamhall119|work: I've done it manually as we have 2 servers; one for testing and another for production20:30
highvoltageok that concludes the EC part of the meeting20:30
dindamhall119|work: but I'd imagine some scripting could be done20:30
sbalneavNubae: in edubuntu20:31
highvoltage== Launchpad Teams ==20:32
highvoltagewe had plenty of unmaintained LP teams20:32
highvoltagetoday we changed most of the teams so that they belong to ~edubuntu-council20:32
highvoltageand the ~edubuntu-council team now belongs to the ~community-council20:33
highvoltagethere are one or two teams that we're still trying to contact the owner so that they can hand it over, otherwise we'll just do it through an LP contact20:33
Nubaeoh thats great news20:34
highvoltagethe edubuntu-testers team is now disbanded- the testing effort will now be done with the ubuntu-qa team20:34
Nubaethats been a pain in the backside for ever20:34
highvoltageNubae: indeed20:35
highvoltage== Edubuntu-members Proposed Members List ==20:35
jbichaooh, and that has the neat advantage that all of the groups are listed on 1 page: https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-council20:35
highvoltagejbicha: yes! :)20:36
highvoltageon https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members quite a long list of pending members20:36
highvoltagewe've had the problem that some people who really wanted to apply didn't understand the process and never added themselves to the agenda20:36
jbichawhat about the edubuntu-bugs team?20:37
highvoltageothers didn't understand and just thought it is a group they can join to show support for Edubuntu20:37
mhall119|workI think I tried to join the LP group before I realized it was moderated20:37
highvoltagejbicha: we'll probably get ogra to hand it to the ec group20:37
jbicha& Launchpad doesn't allow you to unrequest joining :-(20:38
highvoltageyes, we need to explain what Edubuntu and Ubuntu membership is more clearly20:38
highvoltagepost it to the list and have it somewhere easy to find on the site20:38
mhall119|workyou can reject my request if you can20:39
highvoltageadditionally, we'll have a generic group that we allow anyone to join to show that they're involved with edubuntu20:39
mhall119|workI'll re-apply when I've done something20:39
highvoltagemhall119|work: we'll do that for now20:39
highvoltagethe plan is to reject all current requests with a link to a page that explains membership and the process20:39
LaserJockhighvoltage: remember there is the ~edubuntu team20:40
mhall119|workI'm going for my Ubuntu Membership next week20:40
highvoltageLaserJock: yes that's the team that would be used20:40
LaserJockmy guess is that could hold everybody20:40
highvoltagethat's also some cause of applicants, some people apply to two councils20:40
highvoltageso they get approved in one and their application to the other lingers20:41
mhall119|workwell I know now that I don't qualify for Edubuntu membership (yet)20:41
highvoltageso by cleaning up our list we'll be more able to handle new requests better20:41
jbichaI thought edubuntu-users was the generic group20:41
highvoltagemhall119|work: how do you know that? :)20:41
mhall119|workhighvoltage: because I haven't contributed anything to Edubuntu (yet)20:42
highvoltagemhall119|work: and if so, why would you then apply for ubuntu membership? the requirements are the same20:42
jbichabut the confusion's part of the problem20:42
mhall119|workhighvoltage: I have contributed to Ubuntu and my LoCo20:42
mhall119|workoutside of Qimo, I've done a lot of advocacy and community work20:43
highvoltagemhall119|work: yep that would certainly cound, and qimo in itself as well20:43
highvoltageany questions on the LP teams?20:44
highvoltage(or comments, etc)20:44
mhall119|workhighvoltage: nhandler said that my Qimo work may not mean as much, since it's not technically Ubuntu20:44
LaserJockI believe we've always used Edubuntu Membership = Ubuntu Membership + Edubuntu interest20:44
jbichamhall119|work: oh, you're the Qimo guy! well, you should definitely get an application ready20:45
mhall119|workjbicha: it is ready20:45
mhall119|workjust waiting for the 18th to roll around20:45
LaserJockhighvoltage: what about LP teams that aren't "official" but are in the namespace?20:45
mhall119|workhighvoltage: once I have Qimo packages for Edubuntu, I'll apply here as well20:45
NubaeI kinda see the qimo work as competing with edubuntu20:45
Nubaeit would be better to join the efforts20:45
mhall119|workNubae: not at all20:45
highvoltagemhall119|work: I would recognise it, considering that you're doing something to get the ubuntu and education combination out there20:46
mhall119|workNubae: that's the plan, I just haven't been able to put Qimo into a contributable package20:46
highvoltagemhall119|work: and qimo has had great publicity and reviews, I'd think it would be very unfair not to give it credit20:46
Nubaeyeah, we coudl call it edubuntu qimo though20:46
mhall119|workhighvoltage: he didn't say there wouldn't be credit, just that it wouldn't be the same as contributing directly to Ubuntu projects20:46
highvoltagemhall119|work: yeah once you've got either membership you can get the other for 'free'20:46
Nubaelike the preschool version of edubuntu or soemthing20:47
mhall119|workNubae: the goal is to provide the Qimo desktop as a profile in Edubuntu, I think20:47
Nubaewell not preschool20:47
jbichawhat's special about the 18th?20:47
Nubaeu know wht I mean20:47
highvoltageLaserJock: stgraber and I looked at the other teams and they were mostly loco-type teams, we think it's safe to more or less let them be20:47
mhall119|workjbicha: that's the next Americas board meeting20:47
LaserJockand my birthday!20:47
mhall119|workthat too20:48
jbichahaha20:48
highvoltagemhall119|work: yes indeed, Qimo could provide a pre-school desktop for edubuntu20:48
mhall119|workhighvoltage: as long as you don't mind the dependency on XFCE20:48
mhall119|workthough with Sabayon, we could probably re-create it with Gnome20:49
mhall119|workI'm not sure exactly how that works20:49
highvoltagemhall119|work: I think it will add about 200MB to the DVD, besides that I don't think there are any issues adding it as optional packages20:49
mhall119|workok20:49
Nubaeno, it adds to it...20:49
Nubaedefinetly a + an lets people know20:49
Nubaewe work together20:50
Nubaenot competing distros20:50
mhall119|workNubae: I never wanted to compete20:50
Nubaeyeah unfortunately it kinda comes across that way like this other distro I keep forgetting the name of20:50
Nubaegerman/austrian20:50
mhall119|workGuadex or something like that?20:51
highvoltageWe might have to get permission from some Canonical marketing people, etc... but from my side I'm completely happy providing links to any other educational distro from the edubuntu.org site20:51
highvoltagemhall119|work: Guadalinex-edu20:51
Nubaehehehe, no20:51
mhall119|workNubae: the reason I didn't just use Edubuntu from the get-go was because I needed a light-weight LiveCD distro20:51
Nubaepreschool design20:51
Nubaeterrible20:52
highvoltagewe're actually done with the items on the agenda20:52
highvoltagelet's move to #edubuntu20:52
mhall119|workoh, heh, I didn't realize we weren't20:52
Nubaeok20:52
highvoltagethanks everyone20:52
jbichahaha20:52
highvoltage*meeting-done-gong*20:52
jbichagood night all!20:52
highvoltagegoodnight jbicha20:52
stgraberthanks20:53
alkisgBye all20:53
=== fader is now known as fader|away
=== ShadowChild is now known as lukjad007

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