| * jdong has successfully cleared his LP bugmail folder. | 00:03 | |
| ajmitch | delete all? | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| dtchen_ | I'm envious | 00:04 |
| dtchen_ | 1 - 100 of 12626 | 00:04 |
| ajmitch | quick, file more bugs for jdong! | 00:04 |
| jdong | hahaha | 00:04 |
| jdong | don't do that! | 00:04 |
| jdong | and I SWEAR clearing involved reading and taking action ;-) | 00:05 |
| ajmitch | sure | 00:05 |
| cody-somerville | 11037 bugmails here : ( | 00:06 |
| ajmitch | so the aim is for lucid to have less bugs open than karmic did at release :) | 00:07 |
| dtchen_ | I'm not even going that route | 00:08 |
| ajmitch | not even for audio bugs? | 00:08 |
| dtchen_ | If we can get 10.04 out the door with fewer known issues, I'll be happy | 00:08 |
| dtchen_ | yeah, I've long since stopped caring about open bugs. It seems like a get about six hundred a day. | 00:09 |
| dtchen_ | like I get* | 00:09 |
| ajmitch | even the bug stats page that I remember hasn't been updated since april | 00:09 |
| ajmitch | at the rate it's taking me to fix a bug in a single package, I expect to fix 5 bugs by lucid release | 00:10 |
| dtchen_ | I'm actually blocked on upstream for 2 significant annoyances :/ | 00:11 |
| ajmitch | more HDA stuff? | 00:11 |
| dtchen_ | nope, PA | 00:11 |
| dtchen_ | it's getting close to F12 release, though, so I suppose that's understandable | 00:11 |
| ajmitch | the only hardware issues I have to complain about are only suspend/hibernate/resume related now, and they mostly just work | 00:12 |
| ajmitch | sound is working nicely thanks to you & alsa upstream | 00:13 |
| dtchen_ | for lucid, we'll probably have crack-of-the-day builds for alsa-driver stable | 00:13 |
| ajmitch | in a snapshot package in main? | 00:14 |
| dtchen_ | nope, universe for src:linux-backports-modules-2.6.3x -> bin:linux-backports-modules-alsa-2.6.3x-yy-generic | 00:15 |
| ajmitch | makes sense | 00:15 |
| ajmitch | more visible than a PPA | 00:15 |
| dtchen_ | well, I suppose it would still be src:main -> universe:bin | 00:15 |
| ajmitch | do you think you'll update them post-release in lucid-updates? | 00:15 |
| dtchen_ | yes, I hope so | 00:16 |
| dtchen_ | smb just applied the wifi updates from 2.6.32-rc6 for karmic-proposed | 00:16 |
| ajmitch | 3 years of driver backports for desktops | 00:16 |
| dtchen_ | I utterly fail at analogy ordering, apparently. src:main -> bin:universe | 00:17 |
| * ajmitch understood it still :) | 00:17 | |
| ajmitch | I know that there'll be a large number of new packages that people want to get in through REVU again, if we can afford to carry them | 00:20 |
| ajmitch | but that's something for those who go to UDS to care about | 00:21 |
| dtchen_ | I need more hours in a day | 00:23 |
| ajmitch | don't we all? | 00:24 |
| dtchen_ | quilt pop -a | 00:24 |
| dtchen_ | bah | 00:24 |
| ajmitch | quilt refresh | 00:24 |
| TheMuso | I only care about revu these days if there is a package I want to get into main, or for studio, where there is a group of us who maintain it. | 00:39 |
| ScottK | ajmitch: How's boost going? | 00:45 |
| ajmitch | 1.40 built for lucid in my PPA, after I stripped the python 2.5 stuff | 00:46 |
| ajmitch | 1.38 should get merged for lucid if we're keeping it, I haven't done it yet | 00:47 |
| ajmitch | but it works for karmic once I put some more detail in the changelog | 00:47 |
| ajmitch | of course there's now a possibility it could be fixed in python rather than just in boost | 00:48 |
| segler | hi, i need an advocate. please have a look at my small python rhythmbox plugin at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser, thanks | 00:57 |
| c_korn | is there a game packages somewhere which needs to write into its game directory ? | 01:03 |
| c_korn | s/packages/packaged/ | 01:03 |
| serialorder | i am looking at the diff between a denian and ubuntu package and one of the few differences I see is ubuntu has DH_VERBOSE := 1 DH_OPTIONS += --with=quilt while debian does not in debian/rules | 01:04 |
| serialorder | I am wondering if that is something I should keep or not? | 01:04 |
| ScottK | Are there patches applied in the Ubuntu version? | 01:04 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| serialorder | scottk, yes there is one patch applied in the ubuntu version that is not applied in the debian version and there are two that are applied in both | 01:09 |
| ScottK | I'd keep it then | 01:10 |
| serialorder | whould you mind explaining whay its there/what its doing? | 01:11 |
| serialorder | oh I think i see the difference the ubuntu version has %: dh $@ while the debian version has %: dh --with=quilt $@ so it looks like they just specify it in different places | 01:17 |
| ajmitch | minimise the difference from debian then | 01:18 |
| ScottK | Agreed | 01:18 |
| serialorder | that leaves only one difference in debian/rules which are the lines DH_VERBOSE := 1 and export DH_VERBOSE how important is it to keep that? | 01:21 |
| ScottK | Drop it. | 01:22 |
| serialorder | dropped! =) | 01:23 |
| serialorder | anyone have a link to what the different versions for a watchfile mean? I asked google but it has failed me | 01:27 |
| nhandler | kirkland: Is there an argument you can pass to testdrive to have it not use virtualbox? | 01:28 |
| RAOF | serialorder: There's version 3, which is the one that's current, and works. There are apparently two other versions, 1 & 2, but I've never encountered one of them in the wild, and I'm not sure they actually work. | 01:28 |
| serialorder | RAOF, ok maybe thats why google 'failed' =) use version 3 got it | 01:28 |
| mmmiiikkkeee | Hi, what is the point of this guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot if pbuilder already sets up a chroot enviroment for when it builds a package? does pbuilder use that chroot env or makes a different one? should i be running pbuilder in the original chroot enveriment(no?)? how do all these pieces work together? | 01:31 |
| serialorder | i take it that if debian/control has a launchpad bzr and the debian version has a debian git I should keep the launchapd bzr ? | 01:33 |
| RAOF | If that's where it's being maintained, yes. | 01:35 |
| kirkland | nhandler: you would rather it use kvm, or what? | 01:35 |
| nhandler | kirkland: Yeah, is there a way to specify if it should use kvm or virtualbox? | 01:36 |
| kirkland | nhandler: it should use kvm by default, if you can use it | 01:38 |
| kirkland | nhandler: if kvm-ok; then | 01:38 |
| kirkland | VIRT="kvm" | 01:38 |
| kirkland | nhandler: does kvm-ok return non-zero? | 01:38 |
| serialorder | RAOF, it looks like it is being maintained in both places | 01:39 |
| serialorder | also should I do the merge with bzr or like i usually do with filing a bug and attaching a debdiff? | 01:39 |
| RAOF | Is it being maintained _in Ubuntu_ at the launchpad address? It sounds like the answer is 'yes, so yeah, that's what should be in VCS-Bzr. | 01:40 |
| serialorder | RAOF, yes it is ok | 01:41 |
| serialorder | thanks | 01:41 |
| RAOF | Doing the merge in bzr may be good; that depends in part on how familiar you are with bzr and how familiar your sponsor is with bzr. | 01:41 |
| serialorder | I guess the reason I ask is that from what I understand/have heard soon all packages are going to have a bzr trunk in launchpad so i figured figuring out how to do a merge that way might be important | 01:43 |
| serialorder | but it sounds like i can/should just do it the 'normal' way | 01:44 |
| === chuck_ is now known as zul | ||
| hedkandi | hello I'd like to put a page onto the ubuntu wiki. How would I do this? | 01:51 |
| hedkandi | the page I'm interested in is marked "immutable" which means it's not a wiki | 01:52 |
| hedkandi | the principle of wiki is that anyone can come along and edit it | 01:52 |
| hedkandi | so I really don't see that it should be called a wiki at all. | 01:52 |
| StevenK | hedkandi: That's because you're not logged in | 01:53 |
| StevenK | hedkandi: You need to be logged in to edit pages. | 01:53 |
| hedkandi | oh really? can I use my launchpad id to login? | 01:53 |
| StevenK | Sure | 01:53 |
| hedkandi | horay. I'll go and investigate that then. | 01:53 |
| hedkandi | thanks for the tip. | 01:53 |
| ajmitch | heh | 01:53 |
| nhandler | kirkland: I just did a quick reboot (it didn't register my last one), and that got it using kvm. It would be nice to add a flag/config option to allow users to specify whether kvm/virtualbox should be used for a certain ISO | 01:54 |
| kirkland | nhandler: sure thing | 01:55 |
| kirkland | nhandler: i'll add that now | 01:55 |
| nhandler | You rock kirkland. I might need to start doing some ISO testing now that I have an easy way to run the ISOs | 01:56 |
| kirkland | nhandler: ;-) thanks man | 01:56 |
| kirkland | nhandler: glad to be of help | 01:56 |
| kirkland | nhandler: did this remove a barrier of some kind for you? or just made it easier? | 01:57 |
| nhandler | kirkland: It made it easy and fast enough for me to be able to get and run an ISO that I would be up for doing some real ISO testing. | 02:01 |
| kirkland | nhandler: great; that's my goal :-) | 02:01 |
| kirkland | nhandler: Committed revision 55. | 02:01 |
| * nhandler hugs kirkland | 02:04 | |
| serialorder | is there a way to easily add ubuntu changelog entries into one from debian? | 02:25 |
| === chuck_ is now known as zul | ||
| === micahg1 is now known as micahg | ||
| === micahg1 is now known as micahg | ||
| FFEMTcJ | Could someone please help me.. I'm trying to fix my second bug and I am running into a problem. I'm running debuild -S and its giving me errors.. | 03:31 |
| nhandler | What error are you getting FFEMTcJ ? | 03:31 |
| FFEMTcJ | nhandler: http://pastebin.com/m7604205a | 03:32 |
| nhandler | FFEMTcJ: Do you have cdbs installed? | 03:34 |
| FFEMTcJ | i do now.. | 03:35 |
| FFEMTcJ | lemme give another try | 03:35 |
| FFEMTcJ | worked.. thanks nhandler | 03:36 |
| nhandler | You are welcome FFEMTcJ | 03:36 |
| === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie | ||
| === cody-somerville_ is now known as cody-somerville | ||
| === Marce_ is now known as Marce | ||
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| * ScottK is suspicious the package built on the first try. ...investigates further. | 05:22 | |
| dtchen_ | I keep thinking my build harnesses are good, but upstreams keep getting better at breaking things. This last time it was 32-bit asm to detect VMs. (?!) | 05:23 |
| ScottK | Suspicion was justified. | 05:34 |
| fabrice_sp | jdong, about bug #475891. what is the actual status? I'm a bit lost | 05:37 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 475891 in eagle "eagle crashes on: zoom into schematic " [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475891 | 05:37 |
| fabrice_sp | (the fix released stuff is for Debian) | 05:38 |
| jdong | fabrice_sp: it's clear for upload. | 05:38 |
| jdong | and upon accepting, the archive admin is to copy the package over to lucid. | 05:38 |
| jdong | which is why it uses a standard version | 05:38 |
| jdong | (like how zsync was handled) | 05:38 |
| fabrice_sp | ok: in comment 11. you say that you'd like an archive admin opinion. That's why I was asking | 05:39 |
| fabrice_sp | Will have a look then :-) | 05:39 |
| fabrice_sp | thanks | 05:39 |
| jdong | fabrice_sp: lol the reason is that the proposed fix, as you can see, sounded "strange" | 05:39 |
| fabrice_sp | yeah: I saw that :-) (I was processing the merge, and saw also that 'strange' fix in the debian changelog :-) ) | 05:40 |
| jdong | ack there's already a merge in the pipeline? | 05:41 |
| jdong | curse this latency! | 05:41 |
| jdong | eeeh | 05:41 |
| jdong | *shrug* | 05:41 |
| fabrice_sp | yeah... but as it's from Unstable, I was a bit reluctant to process it for the moment | 05:41 |
| jdong | ok | 05:42 |
| bbigras | hi, I attached debdiffs for bug 476360 and bug 428017 , if anyone's interested | 05:45 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 476360 in kopete-facebook "Never able to connect to facebook" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476360 | 05:45 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 428017 in kopete-facebook "plugin does not know it is offline" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428017 | 05:45 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: Please have a look when you have a moment ^^^ | 05:46 |
| bbigras | thanks | 05:47 |
| AnAnt | Hello | 05:48 |
| fabrice_sp | Hi AnAnt | 05:51 |
| cody-somerville | jdong, that eagle package makes me want to hurl | 06:21 |
| jdong | cody-somerville: agree with you | 06:22 |
| cody-somerville | The change makes it impossible to fully apt-get remove the damn thing which makes me double hurl | 06:24 |
| fabrice_sp | cody-somerville, you're right. anyway, I've been able to reproduce the problem, so I'm waiting for more info to see, so no uplaod for the moment | 06:26 |
| fabrice_sp | s/I've/I've not/ | 06:26 |
| AnAnt | can someone comment on this: LP 475338 | 06:34 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 475338 in texlive-bin "Sync texlive-bin 2007.dfsg.2-8 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475338 | 06:34 |
| AnAnt | I need opinion regarding that last comment I put there | 06:34 |
| fabrice_sp | AnAnt, you just opened it? | 06:34 |
| AnAnt | fabrice_sp: nah, it was opened few days ago, and got ack'ed by Daneil | 06:35 |
| AnAnt | Daniel | 06:35 |
| AnAnt | but I added a comment yesterday that there is a remaining difference (that I overlooked when I filed the sync request), but I see that this difference can also be dropped | 06:36 |
| fabrice_sp | I think it's safe to sync, even more if armel works fine with gcc 4.4 | 06:36 |
| AnAnt | ok, thanks | 06:37 |
| fabrice_sp | yw :-) | 06:37 |
| * fabrice_sp goes back to the sponsorship queue | 06:37 | |
| AnAnt | fabrice_sp: you following the TL2009 development ? | 06:37 |
| AnAnt | fabrice_sp: they just uploaded tl2009 to NEW ! | 06:38 |
| fabrice_sp | tl2009? | 06:38 |
| AnAnt | texlive | 06:38 |
| AnAnt | it will still remain in experimental for a while though | 06:39 |
| fabrice_sp | ohh: I was speaking about the Ubuntu sponsorship queue :-) | 06:39 |
| fabrice_sp | so it won't make it for Lucid? | 06:39 |
| AnAnt | dunno | 06:40 |
| AnAnt | I hope it would | 06:41 |
| === geser_ is now known as geser | ||
| dholbach | buon giorno! | 06:54 |
| * geser yawns a good morning | 06:55 | |
| fabrice_sp | good morning dholbach ! | 07:11 |
| dholbach | hi fabrice_sp | 07:11 |
| ajmitch | hi | 07:12 |
| dholbach | maco: mvo and I were talking of writing an edit-patch command which wraps around whatever crazy crack the package uses and just works - there's some initial code and I guess we're going to finish it on the plane tomorrow :) | 07:14 |
| dholbach | maco: so hopefully for UDS and lucid we can put it somewhere :) | 07:14 |
| ScottK | dholbach: I think that's an excellent plan. | 07:15 |
| maco | cool! | 07:15 |
| ScottK | One of my concerns about the trend towards quilt is it increases the already steep learning curve for newcomers. | 07:15 |
| dholbach | definitely | 07:15 |
| dholbach | in any case after UDS we'll put up whatever we have, so we can finish off the rest | 07:15 |
| sbeattie | heh, I think it depends on what you know; I'd used and understood quilt for quite a while before I ever touched a debian package; but dpatch just seems utterly unhelpful. | 07:19 |
| AnAnt | so after UDS , quilt source packages will be accepted ? | 07:22 |
| dholbach | geser, persia, nixternal: we could stage a round of -1s today - it's Friday 13th ;-) | 07:22 |
| dholbach | AnAnt: I don't think - it'll take a bit longer to get support into LP for that | 07:22 |
| dholbach | AnAnt: but wgrant will know the exact-exact-exact answer | 07:22 |
| AnAnt | ok | 07:22 |
| nixternal | dholbach: ooh, good one | 07:23 |
| wgrant | 2009-12-05 at the latest. It may be before that if Debian increases adoption rapidly. | 07:23 |
| * wgrant checks today's count. | 07:23 | |
| wgrant | Currently sitting at 0.39% of unstable, and the adoption rate has slowed lately. | 07:24 |
| AnAnt | wgrant: can you tell me about a small package that uses quilt format ? | 07:25 |
| dholbach | quilt? | 07:25 |
| wgrant | quilt itself, yes. | 07:25 |
| AnAnt | ok | 07:25 |
| AnAnt | thanks | 07:25 |
| randomaction | is it on by default in Debian already? | 07:29 |
| ScottK | It's supported, but not by default in Debian. | 07:30 |
| wgrant | I think some of the #ubuntu-devel discussion might have influenced that. | 07:34 |
| === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach | ||
| dholbach | persia: you've been over-eager with the wiki cleanup | 08:15 |
| dholbach | persia: Rodney and Scott are still on our list for next time | 08:16 |
| dholbach | or whenever | 08:16 |
| maco | hahahaha | 08:16 |
| persia | dholbach: I just commented them out. I figured they'd uncomment themselves if they could make the next meeting. | 08:18 |
| dholbach | got it | 08:18 |
| highvoltage | yay! maco is a MOTU! | 08:27 |
| huats | congrats porthose_ | 08:34 |
| huats | and of course congrats maco | 08:35 |
| porthose_ | huats, ty :) | 08:35 |
| * dholbach hugs maco, porthose_ and diwic | 08:35 | |
| dholbach | well done :) | 08:35 |
| * porthose_ hugs dholbach :) | 08:36 | |
| hyperair | congrats maco =) | 08:37 |
| maco | hyperair: thanks | 08:40 |
| maco | thanks huats | 08:41 |
| maco | now really...nearly 4am. sleep time! | 08:41 |
| \sh | moins | 11:06 |
| highvoltage | mouns \sh! | 11:19 |
| siretart` | hi \sh, hi highvoltage! | 11:19 |
| highvoltage | hey siretart` | 11:21 |
| * highvoltage wonders about motu people and funny characters in their names | 11:21 | |
| === highvoltage is now known as highvoltage\n | ||
| \sh | highvoltage\n, this nick is older then ubuntu ;) | 11:22 |
| highvoltage\n | \sh: so is mine! | 11:22 |
| highvoltage\n | (well not with the newline) | 11:22 |
| siretart` | highvoltage\n: that's because at work I use another irc client (rcirc), whereas my irssi runs on my private host in a datacenter | 11:23 |
| highvoltage\n | siretart`: aah | 11:23 |
| === highvoltage\n is now known as highvoltage | ||
| siretart` | btw, rcirc rocks, hard. | 11:23 |
| highvoltage | never used it before, what does it do? | 11:24 |
| siretart` | \sh: may I assume that the karmic kernel (finally) has a fixed aufs module that works over nfs? | 11:24 |
| siretart` | highvoltage: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/rcirc | 11:24 |
| \sh | siretart, hmm...regardnig waldemar and thomas: no | 11:25 |
| \sh | "See | 11:25 |
| \sh | fai-ubuntu-NFSROOT.patch as example. Here we have used unionfs-fuse | 11:25 |
| \sh | instead of aufs2. Ubuntu removed the aufs2 binary packages in | 11:25 |
| \sh | Karmic." | 11:25 |
| siretart` | err, unionfs-fuse? wtf? | 11:26 |
| siretart` | hm. as long as it works (better) than the in-kernel alternative.. sounds promising... | 11:27 |
| \sh | siretart, thomas is working on incorporating the changes into his fai main tree...he proposed as well, to work on two branches in fai svn.. | 11:28 |
| \sh | so doing some changes for ubuntu, and moving it slowly into the main branch when debian changes to NWO, too | 11:28 |
| siretart` | NWO? | 11:30 |
| \sh | New World Order | 11:30 |
| siretart` | ah | 11:30 |
| \sh | siretart, you are not a fan of Hulk Hogan, aren't you? | 11:30 |
| siretart` | that's about 2 decades ago.. | 11:31 |
| \sh | siretart`, I'll take it as compliment ;) | 11:31 |
| siretart` | *g* | 11:31 |
| siretart` | I'm skimming over the patch.. hmm. just having the unionfs-fuse package in the nfsroot is sufficient to activate it? uh? | 11:31 |
| siretart` | hm, anyway. won't become urgent for me before next week | 11:33 |
| \sh | siretart, setting export UNIONTYPE="aufs" unionfs | 11:33 |
| \sh | but it's not in the patches somehow | 11:33 |
| \sh | I'll just mailed the fai ml to ask him | 11:34 |
| slytherin | ttx: Do you mind if I port libjug-java from Ubuntu to Debian. It is one of the essential build-dep for cruisecontrol. | 11:35 |
| ttx | slytherin: not at all, feel free to port any missing library :) | 11:58 |
| slytherin | ttx: thanks | 11:58 |
| === korn_ is now known as c_korn | ||
| ttx | question: I'm merging a -0ubuntuN with a -1 and the orig.tar.gz from debian is slightly different, what's the recommended solution to that case ? Keep ours and make a note in changelog ? | 13:05 |
| bddebian | Heya gang | 13:06 |
| === korn_ is now known as c_korn | ||
| StevenK | ttx: Yes, keep our .orig, after making sure they really do contain mostly the same contents | 13:13 |
| ttx | StevenK: I'm confirming that right now. Thanks ! | 13:13 |
| slytherin | ttx: StevenK: What would be the version in Ubuntu in this case? | 13:20 |
| ttx | slytherin: -1ubuntu1 | 13:21 |
| ttx | (for the record, unpacked contents are strictly the same in my case) | 13:22 |
| ScottK | ttx: You have to keep the Ubuntu orig.tar.gz because if the md5sum doesn't match, Soyuz will reject the upload. | 13:24 |
| ttx | ScottK: I saw that :) | 13:24 |
| ScottK | OK | 13:24 |
| slytherin | ttx: I guess I will have to do fake sync for jmeter too | 13:26 |
| \sh | siretart, you don't need to change the aufs in unionfs...somehow it worked, told waldemar | 13:26 |
| ttx | slytherin: you uploaded a different orig.tar.gz between ubuntu and debian ? | 13:26 |
| slytherin | ttx: No. But for some reason the size for repackaged upstream tar ball is different on both distributions. | 13:29 |
| ttx | ...? | 13:30 |
| directhex | slytherin, compression will differ from the tiniest of things | 13:30 |
| directhex | i.e. mtime/atime | 13:31 |
| slytherin | I don't know what is the reason. May be my get-orig-source taregt is broken. | 13:31 |
| directhex | slytherin, is upstream a bzip2? zip? | 13:31 |
| ttx | directhex: right, but if he uploaded the same orig.tar.gz to both ubuntu and debian, that would be the same | 13:31 |
| slytherin | ttx: In that sense, yes the to tar balls are different. | 13:31 |
| directhex | ttx, every call to get-orig-source will produce a new md5sum, unless you account for it in your rule | 13:31 |
| slytherin | directhex: tar.gz, but I have to repack it to remove included jar files. | 13:32 |
| ttx | directhex: that's why he should only call it once :) | 13:32 |
| directhex | slytherin, want a recipe? | 13:32 |
| slytherin | directhex: Nope. Next time I am putting packages in Debian first. :-) | 13:33 |
| directhex | slytherin, i meant just in case. your enemy is mtime. | 13:33 |
| slytherin | directhex: Ok. Tell me. | 13:34 |
| siretart` | \sh: interesting... | 13:34 |
| directhex | slytherin, http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-cli-libs/packages/mysql-connector-net/trunk/debian/rules | 13:34 |
| directhex | slytherin, the key is the --mtime= flag to tar, and the -n flag on gzip | 13:35 |
| slytherin | ok | 13:38 |
| slytherin | directhex: what should be the value of mtime? | 13:39 |
| directhex | slytherin, any hard-coded number. but lintian will bitch if it's not recent enough. | 13:40 |
| directhex | try the value from "date -d 2009-11-13 +%s" | 13:40 |
| slytherin | ok | 13:40 |
| serialorder | highvoltage, I am testing a package I built in a schroot and I get the following error: Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module": libcanberra-gtk-module.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 14:25 |
| serialorder | the application runs fine otherwise | 14:26 |
| serialorder | should I add a depends on canberra-gtk-module ? | 14:26 |
| ripps | serialorder: is the canberra part essential, or is it optional? | 14:31 |
| serialorder | ripps, i don't know the answer to that question I will try to figure that out, not exactly sure how | 14:33 |
| ripps | If it's essential it should be a depends, if not it should be a Recommend or Suggest | 14:34 |
| === ripps_ is now known as ripps | ||
| segler | hi, i need an advocate. please have a look at my small python rhythmbox plugin at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/rhythmbox-radio-browser, thanks | 15:22 |
| ari-tczew | we have new patch tagging standards? | 15:23 |
| highvoltage | nixternal: hey, are you around? | 15:28 |
| nixternal | highvoltage: what's up? | 15:30 |
| highvoltage | I'll send you a pm | 15:30 |
| nixternal | k | 15:31 |
| === keylocker is now known as leleobhz | ||
| EzraR | what would make a package to startbuilding with clean | 15:51 |
| EzraR | fakeroot debian/rules clean is the first and only thing this package does | 15:54 |
| EzraR | no build no install etc | 15:55 |
| EzraR | they are in the rules file | 15:55 |
| EzraR | its like it just skips them | 15:55 |
| EzraR | nobody? | 16:05 |
| ripps | EzraR: the default action is to run clean first, to make sure the build environment is clean. What's your package and what do have in you rules file? | 16:06 |
| EzraR | ripps: im trying to fix a bug in gw6c | 16:07 |
| ripps | EzraR: apparently the package attempt to patch the source with dpatch, do you have dpatch installed? | 16:09 |
| EzraR | ripps: yes | 16:10 |
| EzraR | i guess ill try building without any patches | 16:15 |
| EzraR | see if they are the cause... | 16:15 |
| ripps | EzraR: sorry my computer froze, did I miss anything? | 16:16 |
| EzraR | ripps: i said i had dpatch installed, and that i guess ill try building without the patches to see if they were the problem | 16:20 |
| ripps | EzraR: huh... It looks the dpatch.make file is empty... this must be a bug | 16:20 |
| EzraR | ripps: /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make ? | 16:25 |
| EzraR | ripps: mines not | 16:25 |
| ripps | EzraR: ah, my dpatch just installed incorrectly, probably due to my pc freezing | 16:27 |
| EzraR | so iff i take out all the patch names in 00list that should efectivly not include the patches in a build right? | 16:30 |
| ripps | EzraR: well, my gw6c just built completly in pbuilder, so I don't know what's wrong | 16:30 |
| ripps | It applied the patches properly too | 16:30 |
| ripps | EzraR: how exactly are you building the packages? Are you using pbuilder? | 16:32 |
| EzraR | yeah... | 16:35 |
| ripps | EzraR: do you get all OK's when you `dpatch apply-all`? | 16:36 |
| EzraR | i was looking at debuild output.. | 16:36 |
| ripps | (remove patches with `dpatch deapply-all`) | 16:36 |
| ripps | EzraR: can you pastebin your debuild output? | 16:37 |
| EzraR | but if i remove them with that wont they still be applyed during build? | 16:37 |
| ripps | EzraR: 00list determines what's to be patched at build time, I'm just trying to determine if there is indeed something wrong with the patches. | 16:38 |
| EzraR | http://pastebin.com/d4d0e40b7 | 16:39 |
| EzraR | os debuild suposed to go through the build targets after clean? | 16:40 |
| EzraR | is | 16:40 |
| ripps | EzraR: I don't know... it should be working. This wasn't built with pbuilder, It's hard to make sure you have an isolated environment unless your running from pristine environment like pbuilder... | 16:44 |
| EzraR | i am building with pbuilder | 16:45 |
| EzraR | you asked for my debuild output | 16:45 |
| hyperair | it's the same. | 16:46 |
| ripps | EzraR: sorry, pbuilder runs debuild too. | 16:46 |
| hyperair | debuild calls dpkg-buildpackage. pbuilder calls dpkg-source which calls dpkg-buildpackage | 16:46 |
| hyperair | no, i don't think pbuilder runs debuild | 16:46 |
| ripps | hyperair: your right, it runs dpkg-buildpackage within an isolated environment | 16:47 |
| EzraR | i was under the impression you used debuild and then built in pbuilder using the .dsc from debuild | 16:47 |
| hyperair | debuild calls dpkg-buildpackage under almost all circumstances | 16:48 |
| hyperair | exceptions being errors | 16:49 |
| hyperair | e.g. unsatisfied build deps | 16:49 |
| ripps | EzraR: no, you shouldn't need to ever install any -dev packages, just setup a package, and just run `pdebuild` and it will automatically import the source and the debian/ packaging into pbuilder to build it for you. | 16:49 |
| EzraR | does it make a diff if i use dbuild -S | 16:49 |
| hyperair | debuild -S creates dscs, debuild -b builds binaries (i think dscs are also created, but not sure) | 16:49 |
| ripps | EzraR: you should only create dsc's when your sure that the package will actually build correctly. pbuilder is meant for testing before you upload to a ppa or repository. Also, pbuilder will output in successfully built packages into /var/cache/pbuilder/result/ | 16:51 |
| EzraR | well i took out all the patches from 00list and built it and still get the bug, so I can safely say it has nothing to do with the patches right? | 16:52 |
| ripps | EzraR: you need the include the patches, otherwise the package doesn't build | 16:54 |
| EzraR | i left the include dpatch.make, i just took out all patches from 00list | 16:55 |
| ripps | EzraR: I'm saying that was unnecessary | 16:56 |
| EzraR | ripps: unnecessary? | 16:57 |
| ripps | Every time I run pdebuild, full 00list and empty 00list, I still had pbuilder build successfully... | 16:57 |
| EzraR | ripps: the bug im trying to fix is not if it builds or not :) | 16:57 |
| ripps | EzraR: what exactly is the bug? | 16:58 |
| EzraR | ripps: i was confused earlier and was thinking debuild -S should go through the build targets of the rules file... | 16:58 |
| EzraR | ripps: the bug is it doesnt install a gw6c.conf into /etc/gw6c or anywhere for that matter | 16:59 |
| EzraR | ripps: sounds like a real easy fix right :) | 16:59 |
| ripps | EzraR: okay... let me look around the rules files a bit... | 17:00 |
| EzraR | look in tspc-advanced/Makefile | 17:01 |
| === keylocker is now known as leleobhz | ||
| ripps | EzraR: I understand the problem, it's suppose install a conf in /etc, but isn't. The easist solution would be copy the sample conf in the correct directory at build time... | 17:07 |
| EzraR | ripp: i tried that but failed | 17:11 |
| EzraR | ripps: tspc-advanced/conf/Makefile is where the sample conf is generated | 17:12 |
| ripps | EzraR: yeah, it might be as simple as copying that conf.sample into debian/tmp/etc/gw6c/gw6c.conf | 17:13 |
| EzraR | at line 38 in | 17:17 |
| EzraR | tspc-advanced/conf/Makefile i added a cp line but it came out wrong | 17:17 |
| EzraR | it didnt get the output from the sed cmd | 17:18 |
| EzraR | that was the first thing I tried when fixing this | 17:18 |
| ripps | EzraR: I'm testing some ideas, I'll let you know if any pan out | 17:24 |
| ripps | EzraR: Okay, I think I figured it out, just add ` | 17:25 |
| ripps | `cp tspc-advanced/conf/gw6c.conf.sample debian/gw6c/etc/gw6c/gw6c.conf` to the end of install: section | 17:25 |
| ripps | in your debian/rules | 17:26 |
| EzraR | ripps: ok ill test it out | 17:29 |
| EzraR | ripps: did you notice the spelling error in that section | 17:31 |
| EzraR | :) | 17:31 |
| EzraR | [#ubuntu-motu] | 17:31 |
| EzraR | platofmr | 17:31 |
| ripps | EzraR: yeah, but it seems to work with it anyway, so why bother it | 17:31 |
| fabrice_sp | ari-tczew, about bug 477798. Did you checked why the package was not yet in testing, after 27 days? | 17:35 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 477798 in slim "Please merge slim 1.3.1-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477798 | 17:35 |
| * ripps is going to take a shower | 17:38 | |
| EzraR | ripps: what does debian/rules:63: *** missing separator. Stop. mean | 17:38 |
| EzraR | ripps: what seeparator | 17:38 |
| StevenK | EzraR: That usually means you have a command in it that doesn't start with tab | 17:39 |
| EzraR | ScottK: thnx | 17:39 |
| ripps | what ScottK sayid | 17:39 |
| * StevenK notes he isn't ScottK | 17:41 | |
| EzraR | ripps: go take a shower you stink :) | 17:41 |
| EzraR | StevenK: lol im sorry | 17:42 |
| EzraR | StevenK: the brain reads words at a time | 17:42 |
| maco | S<abunchaletters>K ? | 17:43 |
| StevenK | maco: And you get it to too with mako's similarity | 17:45 |
| maco | StevenK: actually, never on irc | 17:46 |
| highvoltage | maco! congrats on becomming a motu! | 17:46 |
| maco | highvoltage: thanks | 17:46 |
| maco | wait i lied | 17:47 |
| fabrice_sp | Hey maco: congrats! | 17:47 |
| maco | paul flint thought i was mako. "no no the dc one" | 17:47 |
| maco | fabrice_sp: thanks | 17:47 |
| ari-tczew | fabrice_sp: no | 17:54 |
| fabrice_sp | it seems to be an ugly priviledge escalation that was not there before, so I would prefer to wait until it get fixed, to avoid merging 2 times | 17:55 |
| fabrice_sp | we are still early in the cycle | 17:56 |
| ari-tczew | fabrice_sp: http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/slim/news/20090817T163923Z.html | 17:56 |
| fabrice_sp | except if someone else say the contrary | 17:56 |
| ari-tczew | removed because no exist in unstable? | 17:56 |
| fabrice_sp | no: have a look there: http://release.debian.org/migration/testing.pl?package=slim | 17:56 |
| fabrice_sp | (you can go there from bts package page) | 17:57 |
| fabrice_sp | new bugs introduced by this version | 17:57 |
| randomaction | fabrice_sp: 1.3.0-2 is also affected | 17:59 |
| ari-tczew | slim has been removed from karmic because it was buggy, unmaintained, but now is new maintainer | 17:59 |
| fabrice_sp | randomaction, strange. a comment seems to say the contrary: The bug was cloned from the package applying to the Sid version, but in the end doesn't apply to the package version in Lenny. | 18:00 |
| fabrice_sp | right: it's not in karmic | 18:01 |
| ari-tczew | an other comment seems to say that it is like as a new feature | 18:02 |
| fabrice_sp | so if it's not even present in Karmic, and new maintainer, I would say: wait until it enters testing | 18:02 |
| randomaction | ah, it makes sense | 18:02 |
| fabrice_sp | yeah: it's not very clear :-/ | 18:02 |
| ari-tczew | when it will enter testing? | 18:03 |
| * fabrice_sp forgot to upload the .orig tarball of tesseract :-/ | 18:03 | |
| fabrice_sp | ari-tczew, when this bug report will be closes, as the other one is already closed | 18:03 |
| ari-tczew | ehh | 18:05 |
| ari-tczew | fabrice_sp: are you bored? I have next bug for you :P | 18:05 |
| fabrice_sp | still sponsoring and building at the same time | 18:06 |
| fabrice_sp | not bored at all! | 18:06 |
| fabrice_sp | :-) | 18:06 |
| fabrice_sp | just give the bug number ;-) | 18:07 |
| ari-tczew | that's beautiful co-operation with sponsors! :) | 18:08 |
| ari-tczew | give me a moment | 18:08 |
| ari-tczew | I need to just report ;d | 18:08 |
| fabrice_sp | lol | 18:08 |
| fabrice_sp | no comment :-P | 18:08 |
| ari-tczew | bug #482278 | 18:11 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 482278 in ffproxy "Sync ffproxy 1.6-6 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482278 | 18:11 |
| * fabrice_sp checking | 18:13 | |
| ari-tczew | ;-) | 18:13 |
| fabrice_sp | Now that I'm MOTU, I upload a lot less packages by myself than before! :-D | 18:14 |
| ari-tczew | Fabrice: please, don't fall in narcissism :P | 18:16 |
| fabrice_sp | Ack'd | 18:16 |
| fabrice_sp | (ffproxy, I mean) | 18:17 |
| ari-tczew | thanks brother :D | 18:17 |
| fabrice_sp | ;-) | 18:17 |
| ari-tczew | fabrice_sp: do you no need waiting for ubuntu archives admins? | 18:18 |
| ari-tczew | for synces | 18:18 |
| fabrice_sp | Just trying to keep the sponsoring queue as small as possible (and it's not easy because of you, guys! :-) ) | 18:18 |
| fabrice_sp | ari-tczew, yes: motu can't do the sync, just ack it | 18:18 |
| ari-tczew | yhym | 18:19 |
| fabrice_sp | diner time: bbl | 18:19 |
| ari-tczew | bye | 18:19 |
| jdong | fabrice_sp: heh wrt bug 475891 I don't really have an opinion anymore :) | 18:20 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 475891 in eagle "eagle crashes on: zoom into schematic " [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475891 | 18:20 |
| EzraR | fabrice_sp: did you speak to the deb maintainer about using the patch on solfege, or are you asuming from the dialog on the deb bug report? | 18:22 |
| EzraR | fabrice_sp: that he would be willing to use it | 18:22 |
| EzraR | anyone good with perl? | 18:32 |
| EzraR | or at least some idea | 18:32 |
| EzraR | heh | 18:33 |
| ari-tczew | ~ubuntu-archive has got a lot of work :P | 18:38 |
| StevenK | Well else is new ... | 18:38 |
| ari-tczew | good luck :P | 18:49 |
| AnAnt | Hello | 18:50 |
| AnAnt | why do most (if not all) upstream not use -Wl,--needed in LDFLAGS ? | 18:51 |
| bmhm | hi all | 18:54 |
| bmhm | I'm almost positive that there is a missing dependency or at least recommendation | 18:54 |
| === quinda1 is now known as etali | ||
| bmhm | the tagger "picard" by musicbrainz does not support PUIDs on ubuntu (i.e. audio-fingerprints) | 18:55 |
| bmhm | can someone verify that for me please? | 18:55 |
| ari-tczew | fabrice_sp: let's go! bug #482295 | 18:55 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 482295 in file-browser-applet "Sync file-browser-applet 0.6.4-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482295 | 18:55 |
| === Quintasan1 is now known as Quintasan | ||
| fabrice_sp | jdong, do you think that if it's only on upgrade, it's worth a SRU? | 19:05 |
| fabrice_sp | EzraR, IIRC, that's what I saw in the debian bug report | 19:06 |
| jdong | fabrice_sp: what is the SRU? Same fix as above? Why does it work? Why does it only happen on upgrades? | 19:06 |
| fabrice_sp | jdong, yes: the ugly 'copy the binary to $HOME/.eagle' fix | 19:07 |
| fabrice_sp | no idea why it fails for upgrade only (new install don't have that file in home) | 19:07 |
| jdong | and by "fresh install" in the bug comment, you mean wipe the entire system and then install, right? | 19:08 |
| fabrice_sp | no :-D | 19:08 |
| jdong | not apt-get remove {{--purge}} and reinstall, right? | 19:08 |
| jdong | what? | 19:08 |
| jdong | now this is making less sense | 19:08 |
| fabrice_sp | I think it's apt-get purge / install | 19:09 |
| jdong | ok | 19:09 |
| fabrice_sp | I wasn't able to reproduce the problem | 19:09 |
| jdong | based on this information... what I lack right now is a coherent explanation of why this bug occurs | 19:09 |
| jdong | and I'm much more reluctant about the SRU's proposed fix | 19:09 |
| fabrice_sp | jdong, exactly. And Debian didn't really gave an explanation about that | 19:09 |
| jdong | right | 19:09 |
| jdong | other than "the debian dev that did it is really awesome" | 19:09 |
| jdong | which I would accept if the package didn't just go to the orphanage | 19:10 |
| fabrice_sp | lol | 19:10 |
| fabrice_sp | ohh | 19:10 |
| fabrice_sp | really? | 19:10 |
| jdong | apparently it's up for adoption, according to the bug comments | 19:10 |
| jdong | and given those circumstances I am not 100% sure the bugfix was really all that well tested / thought through on the Debian side | 19:10 |
| jdong | but given that eagle is not exactly telepathy or Xorg in urgency | 19:11 |
| jdong | I'd say let's try to come up with a more satisfactory explanation of why it's broken | 19:11 |
| jdong | before attempting to shove through silly one-liner hacks when we still don't agree what the symptoms are yet :) | 19:11 |
| jdong | eventually once we understand the problem enough to make a fix, I would be interestd in a SRU for it | 19:11 |
| fabrice_sp | makes sens | 19:12 |
| fabrice_sp | e | 19:12 |
| jdong | yeah feel free to paraphrase this onto the bug report | 19:12 |
| fabrice_sp | sure :-) | 19:12 |
| jdong | Scott Howard seems to be quite interested in the bug and making good progress on it | 19:12 |
| jdong | I'm sure the resolution won't be far from today | 19:12 |
| fabrice_sp | yes | 19:12 |
| AnAnt | hmmm, how can I run autogen without making it run configure | 19:19 |
| bmhm | has anyone read my request? | 19:21 |
| ripps | bmhm: scan in my picard works fine | 19:24 |
| bmhm | ripps: not talking about scanning | 19:24 |
| bmhm | I meant generating and sending PUIDs | 19:24 |
| leonel | hello : | 20:35 |
| leonel | Somedays ago I've submited a diff for squirrelmail, was something wrong with it ? bug 446838 | 20:36 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 446838 in squirrelmail "Multiple cross-site request forgery (CSRF) vulnerabilities in SquirrelMail 1.4.19 and earlier" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446838 | 20:36 |
| fabrice_sp | leonel, it seems ok. Waiting for a security team ack | 20:45 |
| Matthias_M | How do I port http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gchempaint 0.10 to karmic/ppa or lucid (it is still 0.8); where do I start. I can't find the correct manual. I am a total newbie. | 20:49 |
| === jussi01 is now known as jussi01_ | ||
| Matthias_M | still wondering why the auto-sync failed | 20:51 |
| randomaction | Matthias_M: see bug 233963 | 20:55 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 233963 in gnome-chemistry-utils "Please merge gnome-chemistry-utils 0.10.5-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/233963 | 20:55 |
| randomaction | I tried to merge it but there was a problem I couldn't fix | 20:57 |
| Matthias_M | can I help somehow? | 20:58 |
| randomaction | sure, you could prepare a merge of 0.10.8 | 21:00 |
| randomaction | !merge | 21:00 |
| ubottu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging | 21:00 |
| Matthias_M | thanks | 21:01 |
| leonel | fabrice_sp_: thanks | 21:10 |
| fabrice_sp_ | leonel, just be patient :-) The security team has a lot of bugs (as you can imagine :-D) | 21:11 |
| leonel | fabrice_sp_: that's what I was thinking since this diff i've submited just before karmic release | 21:11 |
| mdeslaur | leonel: let me take a look | 21:16 |
| jdstrand | leonel, fabrice_sp_: the bug doesn't follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Submission | 21:16 |
| jdstrand | that is why it wasn't picked up | 21:16 |
| fabrice_sp_ | oh, missed that. you're right | 21:17 |
| jdstrand | we have scripts to help us identify sponsored security updates | 21:17 |
| fabrice_sp_ | I'm not used to this 'In progress' state | 21:17 |
| fabrice_sp_ | sorry about that | 21:17 |
| jdstrand | not a problem | 21:17 |
| jdstrand | sorry we didn't notice it sooner | 21:17 |
| mdeslaur | leonel: I'll take a look at the patches, thanks! | 21:18 |
| leonel | mdeslaur: thanks , | 21:19 |
| leonel | that process was new to me .. | 21:20 |
| === jussio1 is now known as jussi01 | ||
| === Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth | ||
| mdeslaur | leonel: np...it'll take me a couple of days to review it...it's a _big_ patch :) | 21:27 |
| leonel | mdeslaur: it is | 21:28 |
| mdeslaur | thanks leonel! | 21:28 |
| leonel | mdeslaur: and squirrelmail does not uses a patch system | 21:28 |
| Matthias_M | do I have to change /usr/lib/iceape/ to /usr/lib/firefox for the Ubuntu package? | 21:33 |
| Matthias_M | I mean iceweasel | 21:34 |
| DBO | are there any Makefile autoconf experts that could help our project get building with make distcheck | 21:36 |
| DBO | I really want to roll a release tarball, but I just cant make it work | 21:36 |
| === tad_ is now known as rrittenhouse | ||
| maco | i'm logged into lp. i want to join ~ubuntu-universe-sponsors. the "join" button appears to be invisible, however. any idea how to join it? | 21:43 |
| StevenK | maco: It's a Restricted Team, you need to be invite | 21:44 |
| StevenK | *invited | 21:44 |
| maco | oh | 21:44 |
| maco | so thats what that means | 21:44 |
| maco | the little "?" icon next to "restricted team" doesnt seem to do anything | 21:44 |
| StevenK | Yeah, I just noticed that too. :-) | 21:45 |
| StevenK | maco: Prod one of the admins to invite you | 21:45 |
| ajmitch | which looks to be one of persia or TheMuso | 21:46 |
| ajmitch | hopefully one of them is in the right timezone & online :) | 21:46 |
| maco | well im pretty sure its like 3am in japan | 21:46 |
| StevenK | ah | 21:47 |
| StevenK | *Nah | 21:47 |
| StevenK | 5:47am or so | 21:47 |
| maco | ok so still an unreasonable time for persia to be awak | 21:47 |
| maco | e | 21:47 |
| ajmitch | and they may be near UDS | 21:47 |
| StevenK | TheMuso is probably not going to join IRC before he flies out | 21:47 |
| ajmitch | I thought he probably would have left by now | 21:48 |
| * maco crosses fingers that he found chocolate | 21:48 | |
| ajmitch | heh | 21:49 |
| maco | (there's an aussie company that makes non-dairy white chocolate, not available in the US) | 21:49 |
| ajmitch | and so you're coercing people to bring it in for you? | 21:50 |
| maco | yes | 21:50 |
| maco | im told by a non-dairy friend whose sister is in oz that it can be carried by visitors, but customs gets upset if you try to have it shipped in | 21:51 |
| maco | (said friend is how i learned of its existence) | 21:51 |
| ajmitch | you'll find out soon enough if TheMuso is detained at customs :) | 21:52 |
| StevenK | Haha | 21:52 |
| ScottK | Depending on how closely he's 'inspected', you may owe him big time. | 21:53 |
| maco | no no its fine to carry in the chocolate! | 21:53 |
| maco | her sister does when she visits | 21:53 |
| maco | its just some sort of "zomg importing goods! tariffs! eek!" thing when you try to buy a bunch of chocolate from au | 21:53 |
| serialorder | not sure if this is the right place but the package i am merging is built and installed in my schroot and when i start it to test it I get a warning saying that I am missing a library. It runs fine otherwise. I was told I should track down where that library is being called from | 21:54 |
| serialorder | any tips on how i might approach that? | 21:54 |
| maco | ldd? | 21:55 |
| ScottK | I'm reminded of a story that was current in Ireland when I lived there in the mid-80s. At the time 'family planning devices' were only available with a perscription. You were allowed to bring such items in from outside the country for personal use only. The story was a man was caught with a suitecased full, which he pleaded were for personal use, so they arrested him for attempted suicide. | 21:56 |
| ScottK | No idea if it's actually true. | 21:56 |
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