[00:20] <shtylman_> ScottK: I don't think I will be joining over 20 channels my computer screen is too small :)
[00:20] <ScottK> shtylman_: OK.
[00:56] <txwikinger> apachelogger: hehe
[00:57] <txwikinger> apachelogger: And so I did anyway
[01:01] <JontheEchidna> Ok, seriously. Apport is still spewing out retraces for crashers reported on release day :<
[01:02] <txwikinger> apport is not very fast,is it?
[01:02] <JontheEchidna> I find new ways to hate it each day
[01:14]  * txwikinger thinks the UDS schedule  application is confusing
[01:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: It should be turned off now.
[01:33] <JontheEchidna> these are backed-up reports being marked as reported the 30th of october
[01:34] <JontheEchidna> some people still seem to have apport enabled, as some do with every release, but this is different.
[01:35] <ScottK> Yeah, it got left on post-release by accident for a few days, IIRC.
[01:36] <dtchen_> those people aren't using Pre-Release Updates, I guess
[01:36] <dtchen_> apport (1.9.3-0ubuntu4.1) karmic-proposed  * Add debian/apport.preinst: Clean up after update-manager erroneously enabling Apport
[01:37] <dtchen_> update-manager (1:0.126.9) karmic-proposed  * DistUpgrade/DistUpgrade.cfg: - really stop enabling apport during the upgrade (LP: #465619)
[01:40] <txwikinger> ScottK: Am I supposed to subscribe to the blueprints associated to the sessions I want to attend at UDS?
[01:40] <ScottK> txwikinger: Yes.
[01:41] <txwikinger> Ah.. I think some of the links (for kubuntu sessions) in the scheduler are leading nowhere
[01:42] <ScottK> You need to find the blueprings.launchpad.net link.  Some of them are linked to wiki pages and that doesn't help.
[01:42] <ScottK> txwikinger: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuLucidSpecs
[01:42] <ScottK> That should take care of things.
[01:42] <txwikinger> Can I see my personal schedule somewhere?
[01:43]  * ScottK doesn't recall.
[01:44]  * ScottK uses the main pages linked off of http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/
[01:46] <txwikinger> Yeah.. I have found that.. but I don't think I can really see very well where I am supposed to be at any time
[01:46] <txwikinger> and at which times I have nothing yet
[01:48] <ScottK> Just to increase the fun factor, there's a bug in the system and some sessions (at least one I found) are double booked in the same room and the second one doesn't show at all.
[02:16] <txwikinger> ScottK: Hilarious
[02:19]  * txwikinger puts his stuff into a calendar file in Kontact
[02:25] <txwikinger> http://summit.ubuntu.com/media/lifestream.html is still set for Karmic UDS
[02:27] <shtylman_> txwikinger: the sessions you subscribe for should be a darker color in the day view...
[02:27] <shtylman_> iirc
[02:28] <shtylman_> txwikinger: also, I wouldn't get to hung up on planning all days in advance... I usually do that the night before as new things are always added. And if they do what they did last year (I hope) there will be a projector with the schedule for that day easily accessible
[02:29] <ScottK> The reason to subscribe is so that when they shuffle the schedule, they can try not to double book you.
[02:29] <shtylman_> right
[02:30] <shtylman_> most deff subscribe to what you really want
[02:50] <Lex79> if I add libpulse-dev to build-dep in kdemultimedia, kmix installation complains about package libpulse-mainloop-glib0 is not installed
[02:51] <Lex79> I should add to depends or don't we want it?
[02:53] <ScottK> We don't want it.
[02:53] <Lex79> perfect, done, thanks :)
[03:00] <txwikinger> shtylman_: Yeah.. I am not too hung up
[03:00] <txwikinger> Just want to get a head start
[03:00]  * txwikinger is excited to go back home :D
[03:12] <shtylman_> cool
[03:17] <jjesse> evenig :)
[03:31] <txwikinger> hey rgreening
[04:52] <lokpest> whats EOL for Kubuntu hardy?
[04:54] <lokpest> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/RC/Kubuntu says that Kubuntu Hardy will not be LTS, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubuntu says EOL for Kubuntu Hardy is 2009-10 but my repositories are working fine
[05:02] <ScottK> lokpest: The actual EOL announcement hasn't gone out yet.  Since other packages are not at EOL, the repos will still be there, just Kubuntu stuff won't be supported anymore.
[05:03] <ScottK> You can still install KDE from the Dapper repos, but I wouldn't recommend using it.
[05:03] <lokpest> ok, I thought the EOL was going to be last month...
[05:03] <ScottK> I think they are trying to figure out exactly what EOL for Kubuntu, but not Ubuntu means.
[05:03] <lokpest> kde-things still works to install here, that why I started to wonder
[05:04] <lokpest> aha..
[05:04] <ScottK> I suspect the whole Karmic release was a little distracting too.
[05:04]  * lokpest should just get a grip on himslf and move to karmic 
[05:05] <ScottK> I confess I have a Dapper desktop I haven't gotten around to updating.
[05:06]  * ScottK is very careful how it gets used, however.
[05:06] <lokpest> but since I intend to do a fresh install, repartion my drives and switch to ext4 it means a lot of personal data saving...
[05:07] <lokpest> but I tried karmic and KDE4 seemed good enough to move to at least
[05:08] <lokpest> just some nuiances that some apps where switched
[05:08] <lokpest> like Konversation...
[05:08] <lokpest> I mean... its like the best irc-client ever
[05:17] <ScottK> It's still available.
[05:24] <vorian> JontheEchidna: your now extended chans
[08:20] <Riddell> bbigras: the bug will get a comment when motu-sru ack it.  it may help to poke the motu-sru people on IRC
[09:36] <Mamarok> JontheEchidna: about bug 482520, it sais package from Jaunty main, but the guy is using Karmic...
[09:36] <Mamarok> invalid, no? We do not support that anymore, or am I wrong?
[09:37] <Mamarok> especially since he talks about the Alarm script, which is third party anyway
[09:37]  * Mamarok goes to close that
[10:03] <nixternal> good morning!
[10:30] <lukas__> Hello, I upgraded from JJ to KK (thanks devs, KDE seems to be running really better) but Kaffeine seems to produce segfaults. Unfortunately ti lacks backtraces, so I would like to recompile it with dbg flags before reproducing errors. Is there any way how to do in debian/ubuntu way? I now try apt-get source or build-dep and dpkg-buildpackage. Is this right way to get most of information to you?
[10:32] <jussi01> morning nixternal
[10:36] <fabo> lukas__: install kaffeind-dbg package
[10:36] <fabo> -d +e
[10:36] <lukas__> fabo: I have not found it
[10:36] <lukas__> otherwise I would install it
[10:37] <fabo> lukas__: look at the debian package, you'll find how to generate it.
[10:38] <fabo> in debian/rules, you should have --dbg-package=kaffeine-dbg
[10:38] <fabo> in debian/control, you should have kaffeine-dbg package listed
[10:41] <lukas__> fabo: I am quite new, but will try
[10:41] <lukas__> I mean new to package building
[10:43] <nixternal> anyone need a google wave invite?
[10:43] <fabo> lukas__: sure, don't worry. ask if you need help.
[10:44] <nixternal> ya, just ask fabo, he is the mastah packageah :)
[10:45] <nixternal> speaking of which, fabo while I was afk for a month, I got an email about krename having a new upstream...did you do it already? if not I will get it packaged up and thrown at you to have a look at and upload
[10:45] <fabo> as kaffeine maintainer, I could help ;)
[10:46] <fabo> nixternal: 4.0.1 not uploaded yet
[10:46] <nixternal> want me to package it and put it in svn for you?
[10:46] <fabo> I could push it now if you have something better to do
[10:46] <nixternal> I have nothing to do right now :)
[10:46] <fabo> probably trivial changes
[10:47] <nixternal> if any changes at all
[10:47] <nixternal> ok, I will go ahead and grab it then and work it out
[10:47] <fabo> as you want :D just ping me when ready
[10:47] <nixternal> roger that
[10:50] <lukas__> fabo: I have source by apt-get source kaffeine, but I do not know what to change in rules (contains just three include lines in version 1.0-pre2)
[10:51] <fabo> lukas__: wait, i get the sources
[10:51] <lukas__> okay
[10:54] <fabo> lukas__: ok, current ubuntu package still use cdbs so you don't need to update debian/rules
[10:54] <fabo> you need to edit debian/control
[10:55] <fabo> copy/paste these lines at the end of debian/control => http://paste.debian.net/51502/
[10:56] <lukas__> fabo: just to change Source:kaffeine -> Source:kaffeine-dbg ?
[10:56] <lukas__> okay
[10:56] <fabo> lukas__: no, add a kaffeine-dbg (binary) package
[10:57] <lukas__> fabo: yes, I see, what after that? debuild ...?
[10:58] <fabo> lukas__: I guess you'll need to add DEB_DESTDIR in debian/rules
[10:58] <nixternal> dh: unable to load addon kde: Can't locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/kde.pm in @INC
[10:58] <fabo> as kmplayer is a single binary package
[10:58] <nixternal> fabo: ^^ that one is new to me
[10:59]  * nixternal has gotten so used to cdbs with all of the core packages that he has become a dh dummy
[10:59] <lukas__> fabo: kaffeine?
[10:59] <fabo> nixternal: kde sequence addon exist since debhelper 7.3.16 and pkg-kde-tools 0.5, do you have them ?
[10:59] <lukas__> fabo: so something like DEB_DESTDIR=/usr/local/bin ?
[10:59] <jussi01> nixternal: black magic... :D
[10:59] <nixternal> that explains everything
[11:00] <fabo> lukas__: oups sorry, because I have uploaded kmplayer now ;)
[11:00] <fabo> lukas__: something like DEB_DESTDIR = $(CURDIR)/debian/kaffeine
[11:01] <fabo> relevant informations are here => http://build-common.alioth.debian.org/cdbs-doc.html#id2550863
[11:01] <lukas__> ah, good
[11:02] <fabo> as cdbd detects a 2nd package (kaffeine-dbg), it installs files in debian/tmp
[11:02] <fabo> and let you with an empty kaffeine package
[11:02] <fabo> to fix the issue, we use DEB_DESTDIR
[11:03] <lukas__> fabo: okay
[11:03] <fabo> jussi01: cdbs is black magic :p
[11:08] <lukas__> fabo: I tried debuild then, but I have some problem with gpg key. It seems debuild thinnk i am original maintainner and seeks for secret key
[11:08] <lukas__> fabo: How could I get rid of it?
[11:10] <fabo> lukas__: do you have a key ?
[11:10] <lukas__> fabo: yes, my own :-)
[11:11] <fabo> debuild -k0x12345678 -S -sa
[11:12] <lukas__> fabo, ok
[11:12] <fabo> lukas__: indeed, replace by your key ;) but I think you get it
[11:13] <fabo> lukas__: oups, not -S
[11:14] <fabo> debuild -i -us -uc -b should be fine
[11:18] <lukas__> fabo, ok, I got it and will try to make it fall
[12:02]  * fabo bbl
[13:07] <robertknight> Riddell: The default color scheme for Konsole in KDE 4.4 has been reverted to 'Linux' (grey on black) - I think this means that you can revert the Kubuntu patch.
[13:08] <robertknight> The previous default ('Dark Pastels') had its contrast increased since it was introduced and will be in the set of available schemes but won't be the default.
[13:09] <robertknight> s/revert the Kubuntu patch/remove the Kubuntu patch/
[13:13] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: i can haz google wave invite pl0x?
[13:13] <JontheEchidna> :P
[13:13] <amichair> afternoon, fellas
[13:13] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: would you mind sponsoring bug 482221?
[13:23] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: sure, what is your gmail addy?
[13:23] <JontheEchidna> echidnaman@evilcorp.com, where evilcorp is gmail
[13:24] <nixternal> hrmm...let me do this
[13:28] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: thanks, btw
[13:29] <nixternal> np
[14:03] <txwikinger> cool with all my new RAM Ican run lucid virtually
[14:15] <ryanakca> For bangarang, should I package their 1.0~beta1 snapshot or git?
[14:15] <ryanakca> Also, how do I deal with ugly tar.gz filenames from kde-look?
[14:17] <txwikinger> Anything inmerging I can do?
[14:34]  * nixternal waits patiently for cmake i386 to make it to the debian mirrors
[14:35] <nixternal> fabo: ^^ when cmake catches up on the mirrors I will complete krename
[15:17] <Lure> whom should I ping to get digikam backport request moving?
[15:47] <Tm_T> Riddell: hmmh, trunk khtml has some issues in my system, so webkit in Konqueror seems to be best choice currently, although I'm not sure how stable it is in the long run
[15:56] <Mamarok> claydoh: what's with that "Hello, my friend" thread in kubuntu-users? I never received such a mail
[15:56] <Mamarok> and now Bruce Arthur asks me why he has been unsubscribed, what's going on there?
[15:57] <claydoh> I don't see one either, but I just unsubbed the email addy that  sent them my spam filter may have caught it
[15:58] <claydoh> so it was  my fault the spam addy was from that one
[15:58] <claydoh> so I screwed that up
[15:59] <claydoh> as i am definitely not capable of reading a proper email addy this morning
[16:02] <claydoh> Mamarok: fixing it now and apologizing
[16:03] <Mamarok> ok, I was just wondering why I didn't get that spam mail but others did apparently
[16:03] <bbigras> I had the first spam mail http://imagebin.ca/view/mPL_ke.html
[16:05] <Mamarok> ok, found it, was in my spam filter, as well as a bunch of others who answered to that...
[16:06] <Mamarok> actually to the list, but since the original message was spam it ended up in spam too
[16:06] <bbigras> yes I had one legit email taged as spam too because of that
[16:06]  * Mamarok loves Google's very effecient filtr :)
[16:07] <Mamarok> efficient filter* even
[16:07] <claydoh> my kmail bogofilter must have caught it on my end
[16:08] <claydoh> actually my isp's filter caught it
[16:09] <claydoh> surprised no one reported it
[16:11] <Mamarok> well, they sort of did, didn't they? :)
[16:11] <claydoh> sort of
[16:12] <claydoh> I was more thinking of an email to the list owners :)
[16:15] <Mamarok> well, Bruce complained for sure :)
[16:15] <bbigras> Riddell: ping
[16:18] <claydoh> Well I would hope so, I hate feeling stupid, though I will take my lumps like a, um, man :/
[16:19] <claydoh> I will be getting  my glasses repaired soon, though not soon enough
[16:40] <nixternal> seems Riddell is making a stop in Chicago tonight
[16:54] <txwikinger> hi nixternal
[16:55] <txwikinger> well.. UK -Chicago is a 10 hour flight.. he is probably on the plane now
[16:55] <nixternal> just under 8 last time I did it
[16:56] <txwikinger> hmm.. could be right
[16:56] <txwikinger> I usually went directly to Dallas..that might be 10.. or the other way around
[16:57]  * txwikinger tried himself on merging bug #482706.. wonders if it is quite ok
[16:58]  * txwikinger still wonders why he'll be fluying into Terminal D in Dallas
[16:59] <dtchen_> would you rather crash into Terminal D in Dallas?
[17:00] <txwikinger> no.. but Terminal D is mainly International.. and I should be already through customs at the departure airport
[17:03] <jussi01> nixternal: remember Riddell gets a good few hours added to his day when he travels that way
[17:07] <txwikinger> nixternal: Making a stop to catch the next airplan, or for staying overnight?
[17:07] <txwikinger> +e
[17:07] <ryanakca> When do package syncs start?
[17:08] <txwikinger> after UDS?
[17:08] <ryanakca> txwikinger: Hmm. OK
[17:08] <txwikinger> ryanakca: I don't know.. just a guess
[17:08] <ryanakca> Ah
[17:09] <txwikinger> maybe ask in the motu channel.. they should now
[17:09] <txwikinger> well.. geser said bascially the same I did :)
[17:10]  * ryanakca nods
[17:36] <bbigras> is there a doc somewhere about how to upload a package to karmic-proposed?
[18:10] <Quintasan> transfer rate to USB devices is still PITA ~1mB/s on a USB 2.0 thumb drive :/
[18:29] <amichair> anyone know how i18n in .ui files is supposed to work?
[18:29]  * txwikinger wonders if everybody is already traveling
[18:30] <maco> a lot are, yeah
[18:30] <amichair> yeah well we can have a party right here!
[18:32] <Quintasan> guys, do you also have such terrible rates when transfering files to thumb drives? Mine's supposed to be fcking usb 2.0 and copy rate it 600kB/s :/
[18:33] <amichair> Quintasan: mine feels slow sometimes, but I don't think it's that slow
[18:35] <txwikinger> Yeah.. I have terribly low rate to my usb drive..not troubleshooted where the issue is yet
[18:36] <dtchen_> could be insufficient power, could be crappy controller, could be linux
[18:36] <amichair> Quintasan: just checkd, it doesn't say the rate, but 160mb took less than 10 secs
[18:37] <amichair> I didn't get a usb detected notification though...
[18:37] <Quintasan> dtchen_: I'd say it's Linux since my comp is brand new :P
[18:37] <Quintasan> amichair: I'm copying 3GB for almost 30 minutes now
[18:37] <amichair> is it a flash or hd? usb-powered?
[18:38] <dtchen_> Quintasan: "comp is brand new" means next to nothing
[18:38] <amichair> I tried with a flash disk-on-key
[18:38] <amichair> 2gb, pretty old
[18:38] <dtchen_> I deal with broken hardware on a daily basis; the "newness" of the hardware is completely irrelevant
[18:38] <Quintasan> hmm amichair it's propably flash, Sony 4GB
[18:39] <amichair> can u see if it's detected as usb2 or usb1? dunno how to do that, but I had that problem in one of the ports in my old box
[18:39] <Quintasan> dtchen_: so dunno then, also it fails to find my external hdd which makes me unable to copy my old files :/
[18:40] <Quintasan> usb 2-1: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 56
[18:40] <Quintasan> that would make it detected as usb2
[18:40] <amichair> Quintasan: as for external hdd, I have a usb powered one (wd), and found that on some machines it works only with a very short usb cable, and on some not even that (not enough power)
[18:41] <amichair> but it appears usb drive notification ain't working (upgraded to karmic 2 days ago, always gave a popup before)
[18:41] <Quintasan> for the external HDD I get - unable to enumerate USB device on port 2
[18:41] <Quintasan> :/
[18:41] <yuriy> kubuntu-lucid-bug-triage-policy isn't up for UDS?
[18:42] <txwikinger> yuriy: I think it is
[18:42] <amichair> there are even y-cables which connect 1 external hdd to 2 usb ports simultaniously so that it has enough power
[18:42] <apachelogger> txwikinger, yuriy: not it is not
[18:42] <apachelogger> implemented it is
[18:42] <amichair> Quintasan: did u try switching cables and ports? front/back too?
[18:42] <Quintasan> amichair: mine is connected to USB port with a power cable :P
[18:43] <Quintasan> amichair: yes, same result only port number is dmesg chaning
[18:43] <Quintasan> changing even
[18:43] <amichair> Quintasan: how do u plug a power cable into a usb port?
[18:43]  * txwikinger has to write some e-mails to friends in Dallas
[18:43] <dtchen_> I think he means a powered usb hub
[18:43] <Quintasan> grr
[18:43] <Quintasan> nah
[18:44] <yuriy> hmm how come i can't edit the whiteboard on these specs
[18:44] <amichair> or maybe a hdd with it's own power supply?
[18:45]  * apachelogger grabs his sonic screwdriver and opens a bottle of wine
[18:45] <Quintasan> http://images.priceme.co.nz/Images/ProductImages/StRetailer98/b740_m.jpg  <--- something like this
[18:45]  * amichair takes a cube of chocolate and melts it down with a sip of tea
[18:45] <Quintasan> HDD enclosure?
[18:46] <apachelogger> so I was thinking ... how about getting ourselfs a nice vision and scope doc?
[18:46] <Quintasan> let me access my data first :P
[18:46] <amichair> Quintasan: can't tell from the picture - does it have its own power connector or is it usb-powered?
[18:46] <Quintasan> own power connector
[18:46] <Quintasan> it's like PATA to USB adapter
[18:47] <amichair> Quintasan: and it still works ok on a different machine?
[18:47] <Quintasan> amichair: it worked on my old machine
[18:48] <Quintasan> now it doesnt
[18:48] <amichair> does it still work on another machine?
[18:48] <Quintasan> works on my sis machine with windows
[18:48] <amichair> ah ok
[18:48]  * txwikinger grumbles at kmail
[18:50] <amichair> Quintasan: dunno then... is ur bios updated?
[18:50] <Quintasan> 2009 version :P
[18:50] <amichair> that might be newest, or might be 4 versions behind :-)
[18:52] <Quintasan> newest one, I have flashed it manually :P
[18:52] <amichair> and u made sure the bios usb settings are correct as well?
[18:53] <Quintasan> yeah
[18:53] <amichair> I can never remember which is the right one, high-speed or full-speed. stupid marketing people.
[18:53] <apachelogger> oi!
[18:54] <Quintasan> apachelogger: sup?
[18:54] <apachelogger> dont call marketing people stupid, 2 years ago I was spending most of my time on working out that kind of crap!
[18:55] <Quintasan> amichair: You'd better hide, you made apache angry :P
[18:55] <apachelogger> if raphink didn't drag me into kubuntu development back in the days, I still would be doing that probably
[18:55]  * Quintasan hands apachelogger a cookie
[18:55] <amichair> I wasn't saying all marketing people are stupid... only the ones that came with 'full-speed' vs. 'high-speed' and expected it to make sense to someone...
[18:56]  * apachelogger munches cookie and drafts up vision&scope doc
[18:56] <Quintasan> now, let's get back to thinking how should I deal with this
[19:01] <Quintasan> I went to double check BIOS settings but everything seems ok
[19:16] <Quintasan> Looks like my problem ain't new, several topics on forums on this
[19:19] <amichair> Quintasan: :(
[19:20] <apachelogger> so
[19:20] <apachelogger> I need a PM minion, any volunters?
[19:20] <Quintasan> PM?
[19:20] <apachelogger> project management
[19:21] <Quintasan> OMFG
[19:21] <Quintasan> I HAVE ATA CABLE
[19:21] <apachelogger> lol!
[19:21] <Quintasan> and external power cable to PATA drives
[19:21] <apachelogger> ATA FTW!!!! :):):)
[19:21] <Quintasan> maybe this will work
[19:22]  * Quintasan prays to FSM that it will work
[19:22] <Quintasan> wish me luck
[19:26] <claydoh> apachelogger: maybe you should put out a help-wanted ad :)
[19:26] <apachelogger> kubuntu.org should have a section for that really
[19:26] <apachelogger> there barely goes a week by without me having a wicked idea that just needs someone to implement it :P
[19:27]  * apachelogger pours a glass of wine for claydoh
[19:27]  * claydoh gets tipsy *burp*
[19:27] <apachelogger> oh my
[19:28] <jussi01> apachelogger: are you going to uds?
[19:28]  * apachelogger is wondering where our dictator is and goes looking in ubuntu-devel
[19:28] <apachelogger> jussi01: nope
[19:28] <jussi01> apachelogger: Riddell is in the air currently
[19:29] <apachelogger> the dictator, not the fearless robot leader :P
[19:29] <apachelogger> or leader robot
[19:29] <apachelogger> something like that anyway
[19:29] <jussi01> ahh
[19:29] <jussi01> :D
[19:29] <Quintasan> coolface.jpg
[19:29] <Quintasan> works!
[19:29] <apachelogger> possibly he is int he air as well
[19:29] <apachelogger> Quintasan: please use .png in here :P
[19:29] <amichair> apachelogger: why not? ur the one who gets things going here, no?
[19:30]  * apachelogger is also the one who can not simply make a one week trip to the US due to other responsibilities :P
[19:31] <Quintasan> http://haxed.dk/blog/wp-content/uploads/coolface.jpg
[19:31] <apachelogger> that reminds me on something
[19:31] <Quintasan> that's my face after I saw "Data" in Dolphin
[19:31] <apachelogger> oh right, some avatar :P
[19:31] <jussi01> hey! it looks like apachelogger
[19:31] <Quintasan> :D
[19:31] <apachelogger> actually it does
[19:31] <apachelogger> ever since I lost weight, I look a lot like that when grinning :P
[19:32] <Quintasan> http://blog.quintasan.pl/files/photo.jpeg
[19:32] <Quintasan> :P
[19:32] <apachelogger> yo ghostcube
[19:33] <Quintasan> ghostcube: \o
[19:33] <amichair> is it normal practice around here to have accelerator markers and html markup as part of translated text?
[19:33]  * apachelogger is always sad when Nightrose is not around :(
[19:33] <Quintasan> lol only 66GB of anime to copy, and that's only my first drive :DDDD
[19:34] <apachelogger> amichair: accelerator needs to be
[19:34] <apachelogger> the accelerator might need to be different in the translation anyway
[19:34] <apachelogger> BUT
[19:34] <apachelogger> html should not
[19:34] <apachelogger> BUT
[19:34] <amichair> apachelogger: I'm looking at the software-properties i18n bugs :-(
[19:34] <apachelogger> sometimes a gnome UI insists on having the html in
[19:35] <Quintasan> >gnome
[19:35] <Quintasan> :/
[19:35] <apachelogger> and sometimes a kubuntu contributor also does add the html
[19:35] <apachelogger> not that I find it particularly good in either case
[19:35] <apachelogger> esply since rosetta is to stupid to strip html and thus it leads to translations issues
[19:36] <apachelogger> we had one case where the amarok status bar was misrendered for years in en_CA and en_AU because some translators broke the html markup in those languages
[19:36] <amichair> so I need to translate, then strip the specific html tags... how ugly
[19:36] <apachelogger> no strippy :P
[19:36]  * amichair can leave his hat on
[19:37] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I think I have asked you but I can't remember if you answered, are we moving with translation of kubuntu-docs form rosetta away too or just KDE packages?
[19:37]  * Quintasan still has his ninja suit, although he's still copying his data
[19:37] <apachelogger> ultimatley you only have no markup inside text, so in the best case scenario you could just only make the string itself translatable and add the markup within the app code
[19:37] <apachelogger> which is the most sane approach to all this anyway
[19:38] <apachelogger> Quintasan: 1. kubuntu-docs is out of my scope 2. I don't see why we should drop kubuntu-docs translations
[19:38] <amichair> apachelogger: true
[19:38] <apachelogger> sometimes-wrong-translations > no translations
[19:38] <Quintasan> I just though we are moving away from rosetta :P
[19:39] <apachelogger> but really, that is, and always was, up to the kubuntu-docs dudes
[19:39] <apachelogger> namely jjesse and nixternal
[19:39] <Quintasan> That reminds me I should get into KDE upstream polish tranlators
[19:40] <apachelogger> Quintasan: if our tools would qualify for upstream inclusion, I would move them there and have translations done by kde-l10n, but unfortunately they do no and thus we are pretty much stuck with rosetta
[19:40] <apachelogger> unless we go for no-translation-for-kubuntu-tools, which might even be worse than what comes out of rosetta at times
[19:41]  * apachelogger likes how people complain about ubuntuone not having KDE integration, but yet no one feels like doing anything about it :|
[19:43] <Quintasan> I'm missing one curcial thing -> right click on device -> Format
[19:43] <Quintasan> so I have to open my console, cd to the dir and do sudo rm -rf * or sudo fdisk
[19:44] <apachelogger> hm
[19:44] <apachelogger> I suppose that should be doable via solid
[19:44]  * amichair misses format from gui too
[19:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: Let me see if I understand your view on Rosetta and KDE stuff: It worked kind of OK for Karmic, but we (meaning Kubuntu devs, and mostly you) had to work really hard to get all the way to only kind of doesn't totally suck.  The effort isn't sustainable, so without some way to make it still better with a lot less work from Kubuntu devs, we just can't do it?
[19:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: Is that about right?
[19:44] <apachelogger> write solid stuff to enable formatting of $FS, then make dolphin utilze this stufffor thumb drives et all
[19:45]  * ScottK wants to make sure he can say it right at the UDS session on Kubuntu translations.
[19:45] <apachelogger> ScottK: yes, though as I see it, there is no way to make it less work
[19:45] <apachelogger> the only solution would be to have someone paid for doing it :P
[19:45] <ScottK> apachelogger: The question isn't how much work, but who's work.
[19:46] <apachelogger> really, my biggest concern is that someone needs to constantly watch what KDE is doing and follow along with our stuff
[19:48] <nixternal> Quintasan: if we moved kubuntu-docs away from rosetta, then what do we use?
[19:48] <ScottK> In contrast, in the PPAs where we just upload the KDE translations it works nicely.
[19:48] <ScottK> apachelogger: ^^^ correct?
[19:49] <apachelogger> ScottK: the translations import is causing overhead on multiple levels ... we need to clone upstream's pot creation tools, we constantly need to have them updated or pot creation might be incomplete, we need to increase the diff of main packages to debian by adding translation domains, if the pot creation fails for some reason, which it will at some point, it will cuase someone to waste time, rosetta exposes us to the threat of
[19:49] <apachelogger>  quality degration because translators can (at will) change upstream translations....
[19:49] <apachelogger> the list is long, each issue alone might be minor, but altogether they make upstream cry and the user cry
[19:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: aight
[19:50] <ScottK> OK.
[19:50] <amichair> is the sp-kde gui purposely different than sp-gtk gui?
[19:51] <apachelogger> upstream translation process is a straight forward subject + since core KDE also uses kde-l10n-LANG packages it resembles our lang-packs anyway, so from a deployment point of view the changes from rosetta to upstream-only translations would probably be minimal
[19:51] <apachelogger> amichair: no
[19:51] <apachelogger> amichair: you see, the thing is ... in the past Kubuntu tools have been created just so that they could become unmaintained
[19:52] <apachelogger> so changes from the GTK UIs were not adopted into the KDE UI for quite some of our tools
[19:52] <ScottK> apachelogger: I tend to agree.  I just want to make sure I can present the argument well.
[19:52] <ghostcube> ehlo peoples :)
[19:52] <amichair> apachelogger: I see. so maybe in a different revision we can do some catsup
[19:52] <apachelogger> ScottK: aye :)
[19:53] <apachelogger> amichair: very much so, and find a maintainer
[19:53] <ghostcube> sup ?
[19:53] <apachelogger> it's not like maintaining those tools means a lot of work, one just would need to subscribe to commits to the trunk branch and adopt GTK changes/enhancements when they occur
[19:53] <apachelogger> which is not that ofte really
[19:53] <amichair> I think I got the translations fixed, just without bold titles. and both kde and gtk are missing some complex tranlations, like 'Close' and 'Remove'
[19:54] <apachelogger> amichair: merge with trunk
[19:54] <apachelogger> I fixed the close stuff
[19:54] <amichair> ok, hope there are no conflicts. I hate wasted work :-(
[19:54] <apachelogger> *shurg*
[19:54] <apachelogger> you should work every once in a while to prevent wasted work
[19:54] <amichair> would that be a 'bzr update' or 'bzr merge' or something like that
[19:55] <apachelogger> bzr merge
[19:55] <apachelogger> bzr merge --preview will show you what gets merged
[19:55] <apachelogger> and possible conflicts beforehand
[19:55] <apachelogger> ghostcube: kubuntu being hot and sexy :D
[19:56]  * apachelogger gets up and dances to summer wind by good ol franky
[19:56] <ghostcube> what else
[19:56] <ghostcube> :)
[19:57] <ghostcube> apachelogger: have you tested midori ?
[19:57] <amichair> bzr shelve has a bug - it doesn't account for file permission modifications (+x )
[19:58] <apachelogger> ghostcube: were I supposed to? Oo
[19:58] <ghostcube> nah only a question :)
[19:58] <apachelogger> didnt
[19:58]  * apachelogger is quite happy with chrome :P
[19:58] <amichair> apachelogger: it says 'nothing to do' (taken from %7Eubuntu-core-dev/software-properties/main/ as I was told)
[20:01] <apachelogger> then no clue why close did not work for you
[20:02] <amichair> ok, I'll try to figure it out
[20:02] <ScottK> apachelogger: amichair isn't going to be able to push to a core-dev branch
[20:02]  * txwikinger forgot how many people in Dallas he knows
[20:02] <ScottK> Could be just really poor error handling.  Since nothing to do might be literally correct due to lack of permissions.
[20:02] <amichair> ScottK: I'm working on my own branch for now, with a dozen fixes ready to be plucked (and more coming!)
[20:02] <ScottK> OK.
[20:02] <ScottK> Great.
[20:02] <maco> wowie
[20:03] <apachelogger> ScottK: that does not make merging a bad idea :P
[20:03] <apachelogger> merging with parent is never a bad idea :D
[20:03] <ScottK> apachelogger: Agreed.  Just a question of which direction.
[20:04] <amichair> say, is there a way to fake the system locale for a single app? some kde command line option or something?
[20:05] <amichair> I can switch my whole desktop to Russian... but then... I don't understand Russian :-)
[20:05] <maco> LOCALE=en_US.utf8 <command>
[20:05] <maco> er...
[20:05] <maco> wait
[20:05] <Sput> LC_ALL
[20:05] <maco> i meant LANG
[20:05] <Sput> or LC_MESSAGES
[20:06] <Sput> depends on how fine-grained you want to do it :)
[20:06] <ghostcube> apachelogger: midori is way better than chrome
[20:06] <ghostcube> pffff
[20:06] <Sput> note that Qt apps determine their local with LC_NUMERIC for some bizarr reason
[20:06] <maco> *shrug* put the thingy you want to set first, then an equal sign, then what you want to make it, then a space, then the command ;-)
[20:07] <apachelogger> ghostcube: sure it is :P
[20:07] <apachelogger> amichair: KDE_LANG=ru
[20:07] <apachelogger> amichair: KDE_LANG=ru kate for example shoudl start kate in russian
[20:08] <ScottK> Personally I use Konqueror as my web browser almost all the time.
[20:08] <maco> apachelogger: why the heck is there a LANG and a KDE_LANG?
[20:08] <apachelogger> KDE_LANG is specific to KDE apps
[20:08]  * Sput has tried rekonq again today, this is shaping up *really* nicely
[20:08] <apachelogger> KDE does not necissarly inherit what the system uses, I really dont know why that is, but there sure must be some reason
[20:09] <apachelogger> yeah, rekonq is getting somewhere usable
[20:09] <apachelogger> but it still would be missing v9 :P
[20:09] <amichair> apachelogger: as in "KDE_LANG=ru kdesudo ./software-properties-kde" ?
[20:09] <Sput> v9?
[20:09]  * apachelogger needs superior js handling due to all the ajax apps he is using
[20:09] <Sput> also it misses adblock :
[20:09] <Sput> :/
[20:09] <apachelogger> Sput: v8+1 .. chromes javascript engine
[20:09] <Sput> ah
[20:10] <Sput> well, chrome I deinstalled again
[20:10] <Sput> too bloaty, too much NIH
[20:10] <apachelogger> amichair: probably more like kdesudo -- KDE_LANG=ru ./software-properties-kde
[20:10] <apachelogger> amichair: BUT
[20:10] <apachelogger> amichair: sp does not use KDE translations only
[20:10] <txwikinger> ScottK: Someone from KDE was talking about the translation stuff to me a couple of weeks ago
[20:10] <maco> Sput: nih?
[20:10] <maco> oh
[20:10] <Sput> not invented here
[20:10] <apachelogger> amichair: in fact the better part of translations comes from lowlevel python-gettext
[20:10] <apachelogger> no clue how to influence that
[20:10] <Sput> them using something for their UI that doesn't fit into your style
[20:10] <ScottK> txwikinger: Yes?
[20:10] <Sput> on neither KDE nor gNOme
[20:11] <Sput> they should've just used Qt :/
[20:11]  * apachelogger wishes there was no freaking chrome at all :P
[20:11] <apachelogger> nothing to fit in
[20:11] <apachelogger> Sput: they knew gtk and ben is a GTK fanboi :P
[20:12]  * apachelogger finds the i-know-foobar approach rather silly and dangerous though
[20:12]  * apachelogger is planing to use that as an argument in his upcoming pre-project decision making discussion 
[20:13] <Sput> see, that's a major reason for me not using chrome
[20:13] <amichair> apachelogger: none of the above work. I see a dialog starting to open and then disappearing, and that's it.
[20:13] <Sput> same reason I won't use Firefox if I can help it
[20:13] <apachelogger> deciding for what is best suited rather than what is known should provide for much more solid project output
[20:14] <apachelogger> amichair: you better google on how to change the language for python-gettext then
[20:14] <amichair> it's not that it doesn't translate in the latter case, it doesn't even open
[20:14] <apachelogger> Sput: that is more political than anything else though
[20:15] <Sput> apachelogger: of course
[20:15] <apachelogger> amichair: it might be because the KDE i18n stuff goes for ru but python-gettext goes for whatever your system local is
[20:16] <amichair> looks like it uses the regular system env vars
[20:17] <amichair> hmmm maybe I need to install the language packs? how do I do that?
[20:18] <apachelogger> amichair: kdesudo qt-language-selector
[20:18] <apachelogger> eh
[20:19] <txwikinger> ScottK: Well.. it was on a similar line. The opinion was that rosetta creates a lot of problems
[20:19] <apachelogger> amichair: kdesudo qt-language-selector --mode install
[20:19] <ScottK> txwikinger: OK.  Make sure you're signed up for the Kubuntu translation session.
[20:19] <txwikinger> I think I have
[20:20] <apachelogger> amichair: kdesudo -- qt-language-selector --mode install
[20:20] <ScottK> OK.  Good
[20:20] <txwikinger> Yes I have
[20:20] <apachelogger> amichair: that should work for real :D ... then just select russion and say install
[20:20] <txwikinger> I think I have signed up to most Kubuntu sessions
[20:21] <apachelogger> ScottK, txwikinger: rosetta is the top reason for upstream to not like us really
[20:22] <apachelogger> without rosetta they would have problems findings stuff that does not apply to other distros either (not that it would make that stuf any better)
[20:22] <ScottK> apachelogger: That's fine.  I have to find ways to express it that may make sense to Ubuntu translations people.
[20:22] <txwikinger> apachelogger: Well and some issues with translation standards
[20:22] <apachelogger> thx process in general
[20:23] <apachelogger> it's not like in the past one single part of the process failed, but every part failed at some point
[20:23] <txwikinger> I think some issues are somehow a deadlock in some ways
[20:23] <apachelogger> like if import fails, translators cant do magic, then there are translations that are just of low quality
[20:23] <apachelogger> then the lang-pack generation can fail
[20:23] <apachelogger> etc.
[20:24]  * txwikinger doesn't really like turfwars..we have enough work to be done
[20:24] <apachelogger> very trye
[20:24] <apachelogger> true even
[20:30] <amichair> apachelogger: I found what works: "LANG=ru kdesudo ./software-properties" (or with LC_ALL instead of LANG). the other combinations don't work
[20:31] <apachelogger> k
[20:31] <apachelogger> anyone knows if we have Amarok 2.2.1 packages ready?
[20:31] <amichair> apachelogger: remove/reset/close buttons not translated.. u sure u pushed ur changes?
[20:32] <amichair> well at least I'm out of virtualbox, so should be a bit nicer environment :-)
[20:32] <apachelogger> amichair: very much so, check with launchpad
[20:33] <apachelogger> maybe KDE does not like LANG but still wants KDE_LANG :P
[20:33] <apachelogger> close and remove are most defenitely handled via KDE
[20:34] <amichair> btw they were not translated in gtk either
[20:34] <amichair> anyway, if u say it works, I won't touch it :-)
[20:35] <Quintasan> what permissions I should have on gpg.conf?
[20:35] <apachelogger> amichair: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot050.png
[20:35] <apachelogger> maybe ru is not translated or something?
[20:35] <apachelogger> which would be weird really
[20:36] <apachelogger> Quintasan: 600
[20:37] <amichair> apachelogger: maybe it's the hybrid thing - I'll try it in a full russian vbox
[20:42] <amichair> apachelogger: nope, still not there. what's the bzr branch?
[20:42] <Quintasan> apachelogger: thanks
[20:42] <apachelogger> amichair: ~ubuntu-core-dev/software-properties/main/
[20:46] <Mamarok> what is she doing here?
[20:47] <txwikinger> ? Everybody is allowed here ;)
[20:51] <ScottK> Mamarok: As long as everyone behaves, I think it'll be fine.
[20:57]  * txwikinger wonders what to do until tomorrow
[21:07] <Quintasan> omfg, official website of Poland is even in Arabic
[21:07] <Quintasan> http://www.poland.gov.pl/index.php?document=8016
[21:08] <ScottK> Nice.
[21:09] <txwikinger> Well.. why not
[21:09] <apachelogger> I wonder why kubuntu.org is not in arabic :?
[21:10] <Quintasan> I can translate it to polish if needed :P
[21:11]  * apachelogger watches videos on poland.gov.pl
[21:12] <txwikinger> apachelogger: Well maybe we need to find a translator
[21:12] <apachelogger> oha, did you know that chopin was polish?
[21:12]  * txwikinger has some people in mind
[21:12] <apachelogger> txwikinger: first we'd need the infrastructure I suppose
[21:12] <apachelogger> ryanakca: ping ping
[21:13] <txwikinger> apachelogger: true
[21:13] <apachelogger> ryanakca: need l10n stuff for kubuntu.org
[21:13] <ryanakca> ScottK: Filed the ITP for the media player Tonio suggested for KNE last weekend (bangarang), the package should be ready by tonight (if everything goes well)
[21:13] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I thought everyone knows that :O
[21:13] <ryanakca> apachelogger: pong pong pong
[21:13] <ScottK> ryanakca: Cool.
[21:13] <apachelogger> Quintasan: I thought he was french :P
[21:13] <Quintasan> lol
[21:13] <ryanakca> l10n stuff, meaning?
[21:13] <apachelogger> ryanakca: translatability of all the content
[21:14] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Were you attending school properly :>?
[21:14] <ryanakca> apachelogger: ... OK. So, you want the website to display itself in the language requested by the browser, resorting to english if not available?
[21:14] <apachelogger> oh dear
[21:15] <apachelogger> copernikus was polish too
[21:15] <Quintasan> lol
[21:15] <apachelogger> copernicus even
[21:15] <Quintasan> I guess he won't mind if we kdeize him :P
[21:15] <apachelogger> prolly not
[21:16] <apachelogger> Quintasan: also, in school we did not learn about chopin
[21:16]  * txwikinger did
[21:16] <apachelogger> and certainly not about the personal background of copernicus
[21:16] <amichair> apachelogger: ok I see ur changes on a fresh vbox from trunk. it throws an exception... outside the vm (hybrid languages?) the close/remove buttons still not translated, but some of the groupbox labels are
[21:16] <apachelogger> ryanakca: yes
[21:16] <amichair> apachelogger: I did similar change, but slightly different
[21:16] <apachelogger> ryanakca: additionally, content/news should be english unless localized versoin is available
[21:17] <Quintasan> ryanakca: give me a ping when it's ready to be translated :P
[21:17] <apachelogger> amichair: exception?
[21:17] <apachelogger> maybe I pushed too much :D
[21:17] <amichair> apachelogger: do u think it would be better to update the ui file to have the exact same strings as the gtk version (easier to track) and then just remove the markup in the code? instead of adding the markup and translating and removing?
[21:17] <Quintasan> hmm, I expect to be done with copying data in about 2 hours, so I will get back to work in three hours
[21:18] <amichair> apachelogger: (that's the approach I took when I fixed the same thing)
[21:18] <apachelogger> amichair: actually I think former is more difficult to update since yo have to edit the UI rather then the code :P
[21:18]  * apachelogger finds the UI files a waste of time for standard UIs really
[21:19] <apachelogger> also, technically the UI files are wrong then
[21:19] <apachelogger> because the titles of QGroupBoxTabs do not support richtext
[21:19] <apachelogger> technically :D
[21:20] <amichair> apachelogger: of course, but it's just to match it up with gtk version, which has its own file requiring update... plus there are a whole bunch of strings which are still not properly translated this way (look in other tabs)
[21:20] <apachelogger> amichair: that is all workaround
[21:21] <amichair> apachelogger: in any case it's a workaround...
[21:21] <apachelogger> amichair: what should be done is that both the GTK and KDE UI implement an abstract UI which dictates the strings
[21:21] <apachelogger> no reason for the KDE UI to have working around that string
[21:21] <ryanakca> apachelogger: I think we'll want http://drupal.org/project/l10n_client
[21:21] <apachelogger> just have the abstract UI dictate the string/translated string and be done with it
[21:22] <amichair> apachelogger: true, but the gtk version also has the markup and accelerators, how would u deal with that?
[21:22] <apachelogger> ryanakca: if it does exaclty that :) ... I seem to remember that something we used at amarok back in the days did not fallback to english content
[21:22] <apachelogger> ryanakca: that would be a PITA IMHO
[21:22]  * apachelogger notes that PITA can quite easliy become PUTA, no good
[21:23] <JontheEchidna> PUTA?
[21:23] <apachelogger> amichair: dunno, check jockey and apturl
[21:23] <jussi01> what else do I need to pack for uds?
[21:23] <jussi01> Im have brain shutdown...
[21:23] <apachelogger> amichair: they have such a centralized UI system
[21:23] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: as in spanish
[21:24] <apachelogger> jussi01: underwear
[21:24] <apachelogger> most importantly
[21:24] <apachelogger> really
[21:24] <jussi01> hehe
[21:24] <jussi01> I have that.
[21:24] <apachelogger> towels
[21:24] <apachelogger> also
[21:24] <amichair> jussi01: a toothbrush too
[21:24] <apachelogger> most importantly
[21:24] <jussi01> towels?
[21:25] <jussi01> amichair: yup
[21:25] <JontheEchidna> don't forget to bring a towel!
[21:25] <Mamarok> laptop, socket adapter for the US
[21:25] <apachelogger> no proper geek leaves the house without towel !!!!
[21:25] <Mamarok> passport!
[21:25] <apachelogger> I have been told at least
[21:25] <Mamarok> visa waiver stuff
[21:25] <ryanakca> apachelogger: Yes. How I wish we had direct access to the servers... Ofir is writing his theme for Drupal 6 to ease our transition from 5.13... But even then, it'll probably take weeks for the sysadmins to mygrate us to Drupal 6, then months to review that module (if it isn't built in... they've been reviewing our screenshot module since July).
[21:25] <apachelogger> Mamarok: jussi01 is state's citizen IIRC :P
[21:25] <jussi01> nope
[21:25] <apachelogger> right
[21:25]  * jussi01 slaps apachelogger
[21:25] <Mamarok> AU citizen AFAIK
[21:25] <JontheEchidna> Hitchhiker's guide + towlie from south park dictate that :P
[21:25]  * apachelogger is messing up the nicks here :D
[21:25] <apachelogger> haha
[21:25] <jussi01> yup .au :)
[21:25] <apachelogger> something nordic it was
[21:25] <ryanakca> migrate even
[21:26] <apachelogger> hehe :D
[21:26]  * apachelogger is way beyond balmers peak :D
[21:26] <apachelogger> +l
[21:26] <apachelogger> there we have it, type engine is broken as well
[21:26] <jussi01> Yeah, I live in .f, but Im from .au
[21:26] <jussi01> .fi
[21:26]  * apachelogger refrains from typing anymore
[21:26] <apachelogger> jussi01: either I forgot, or I did not know that you are in .au
[21:26] <apachelogger> prolly latter
[21:27] <apachelogger> what were you doing there anyway?
[21:27] <apachelogger> for that matter what would anyone do in .au really :P
[21:27] <amichair> jussi01: ur ssh keys, never know what u might forget
[21:27] <jussi01> apachelogger: no, I was born and raised in .au. I now live in .fi.
[21:27] <apachelogger> ah
[21:28]  * apachelogger did not know that
[21:28]  * jussi01 saves it to apachelogger's hdd
[21:28] <apachelogger> there you have it, I neglected social conversations for too long!
[21:28] <apachelogger> no more that shall happen
[21:28] <jussi01> :)
[21:28] <apachelogger> maybe I should refrain from development all together and become management monkey again
[21:29] <jussi01> NO!
[21:29] <apachelogger> it sure would help the social part along :)
[21:29] <txwikinger> has imap on kmail regressed somehow?
[21:29] <apachelogger> txwikinger: could it regress even further?
[21:29] <apachelogger> yo EagleScreen
[21:29] <ScottK> txwikinger: Use dimap
[21:29] <Mamarok> ok, me is out for tonight, hf people :)
[21:29] <ScottK> Good night Mamarok.
[21:29] <jussi01> yeah, dimap is _much_ nicer
[21:29] <apachelogger> jussi01: well, I would obviously get myself some minions :)
[21:29] <txwikinger> dimap?
[21:29] <Mamarok> jussi01: have a nice trip :)
[21:29]  * apachelogger hugs Mamarok
[21:29] <jussi01> Mamarok: I will, thanks
[21:29] <ScottK> jussi01: Also less crashy, I'm given to understand.
[21:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: I thought it was the other way around?
[21:30] <jussi01> ScottK: _much_ less.
[21:30] <ScottK> apachelogger: I don't think so
[21:30] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[21:30] <jussi01> apachelogger: you state is befuddling your mind.
[21:30] <apachelogger> akonadi is superior anyway :P
[21:30] <ScottK> apachelogger: KDE 4.5.
[21:30] <EagleScreen> apachelogger: hi, any message for me?
[21:30] <apachelogger> jussi01: possibly, but usually when I am in this state I come up with the best ideas :)
[21:30] <txwikinger> ah disconnected imap
[21:31] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: can't I say just hi? :P
[21:31] <ScottK> txwikinger: Yes.
[21:31] <txwikinger> can I easily convert an account from imap to dimap?
[21:31] <apachelogger> no
[21:31] <txwikinger> ok.. reconfigure then :)
[21:31] <jussi01> delete and start again.... :D
[21:31] <EagleScreen> of course, apachelogger, but "yo" != "hi" at least for me :)
[21:32] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: in that case ... hi
[21:32] <jussi01> EagleScreen: you need to get an apachelogger tranlation engine...
[21:32] <jussi01> :D
[21:32] <apachelogger> totally
[21:32] <apachelogger> or a translation minion
[21:32] <EagleScreen> inst it in repositories? lol
[21:32] <apachelogger> I woud like that too as a matte rof fact
[21:32]  * JontheEchidna files a needs-packaging bug
[21:32]  * apachelogger likes silly bug reports :D
[21:32] <JontheEchidna> [needs-packaging] apacheloger-l10n-engine
[21:33] <apachelogger> make triaging more fun
[21:33] <jussi01> apachelogger: btw, jussi01.com is back.
[21:33] <JontheEchidna> reminds me, I never mailed the KMuddy dude about licensing :x
[21:33] <jussi01> so we can has kubotu again
[21:33]  * apachelogger googl0rs
[21:33] <apachelogger> uh
[21:33] <apachelogger> laggy
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> can haz revu? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=7031
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> dh7 goodness^^
[21:34]  * apachelogger issues git pull
[21:34] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: request denied :D
[21:34] <apachelogger> 3
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> D:
[21:34] <apachelogger> 2
[21:34] <apachelogger> 1
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[21:34] <apachelogger> kubotu: hi
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> ~order party
[21:35]  * apachelogger tunes in justice
[21:35] <kubotu> hello apachelogger
[21:35]  * kubotu gives everyone a party hat and a hand full of conffeti.
[21:35]  * kubotu turns on tha most funky party music as well as the all shiny disco ball.
[21:35] <kubotu> JontheEchidna: wanna dance with me? :-)
[21:35]  * kubotu starts shaking her tight ass
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[21:36]  * apachelogger still wonders when he made kubotu female
[21:36] <apachelogger> ah
[21:36] <txwikinger> ~help
[21:36] <apachelogger> righto
[21:36] <kubotu> help topics: 10 core modules: auth, basics, config, filters, httputil, irclog, remote, unicode, userdata, wordlist; 50 plugins: alias, autoop, autorejoin, bans, bar, botsnack, chanserv, debug, dns, eightball, excuse, factoids, googlefight, greet, hangman, host, identica, iplookup, karma, keywords, lart, lastfm, markov, modes, nickrecover, nickserv, note, q, quote, reaction, remind, ri, roshambo, rot, rss, salut, script, search,
[21:36] <kubotu> seen, shiritori, time, topic, translator, tumblr, twitter, uno, urban, usermodes, wheeloffortune, wserver; 33 plugins ignored: use help ignored plugins to see why; 1 plugin failed to load: use help failed plugins to see why (help <topic> for more info)
[21:36] <apachelogger> that was back in the insanity dev days
[21:36] <apachelogger> cause insanity was female I have been told :D
[21:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna:   * Initial release. (LP: #)
[21:36] <jussi01> apachelogger: ubottu is female
[21:36] <txwikinger> ~kubuntu
[21:36] <apachelogger> there is a numba missing :P
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> that's because I never filed the packaging bug :P
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> there needs to be a better system for that
[21:37] <apachelogger> jussi01: you are just trying to raise the female ratio :P
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> like just tracking it all at revu
[21:37] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: drop it completely
[21:37] <jussi01> !gender | apachelogger
[21:37] <apachelogger> jr never files them
[21:37]  * apachelogger finds them uber useless as well
[21:37] <apachelogger> not that anyone would check in lp beforehand
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> btw, dh --with-kde is totally untouched by rosetta mangling :D
[21:38] <apachelogger> esply not if they are new to ubuntu
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> which means when main kde modules start using it things will break \o/
[21:38] <apachelogger> hrrrhrrrr
[21:38] <apachelogger> ScottK: take note of that
[21:38] <apachelogger> need to investigate a whole new system
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> the whole lang stack will need ported to dh7
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> since the whole point is to disuse cdbs
[21:39] <JontheEchidna> a cdbs dependency will then be yet another difference from debian
[21:39] <apachelogger> oha
[21:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: copyright is wrongish
[21:40] <JontheEchidna> well, we won't have to rewrite the shellscripts, but...
[21:40] <apachelogger> at least touchpad.cpp is BSD, not GPL2+
[21:40] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the shell scripts are from upstream anyway
[21:40] <JontheEchidna> which we have in pkg-kde-tools as to not build-depend on kdesdk-scripts I assume?
[21:41] <JontheEchidna> also, don't you just love it when the license header fails to mention what license it is?
[21:41] <apachelogger> yes, yes
[21:41] <apachelogger> though
[21:41] <apachelogger> not sure on the former
[21:42] <apachelogger> kdesdk by default does not include them scripts I think
[21:42] <apachelogger> at least it did not in 4.1 or so
[21:42] <JontheEchidna> extract-messages.sh is at least in kdesdk-scripts
[21:42] <apachelogger> oh
[21:42] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: +1 for tracking it all at REVU.  There's no rule that requires a needs-packaging bug.
[21:42] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: might be because of Xdep ...
[21:42] <apachelogger> kdesdk building would then depend on kdesdk-scripts
[21:42] <apachelogger> which is technically wrongish
[21:42] <JontheEchidna> oh, yeah
[21:43] <JontheEchidna> So, upstream kcm-touchpad needs to ship a copy of the BSD license as COPYING.BSD?
[21:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: where is Ariel Constenla-Haile  coming from?
[21:44] <apachelogger> no ref in the source at all
[21:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: no, BSD is always a complete copy of BSD anyway :D
[21:44] <JontheEchidna> um, wrong copy/paste I guess
[21:44] <JontheEchidna> oh, yay
[21:44] <ScottK> No requirement for a separate file, just that it be in there somewhere
[21:47] <JontheEchidna> will a snippet like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/318902/ be fine for the packaging?
[21:48] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: nope, it is not a standard 3-clause BSD
[21:49] <JontheEchidna> so I need to give a copy of the license used in debian/copyright instead?
[21:49] <apachelogger> i.e. what is in common-licenses differs from what the source file actually says, so youll need to use what the source says and not mention the common-licenses
[21:49] <JontheEchidna> ok
[21:49] <apachelogger> since latter does not apply
[21:49] <ScottK> +1
[21:49] <apachelogger> that is the tricky thing about BSD, you need to be careful if it is really the good ol standard BSD and only then you can refer to the common license
[21:50] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: Why disuse cdbs?
[21:50] <JontheEchidna> no point in using it if you're using dh7
[21:51] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: It takes care of quilt and cmake and whatnot automagically?
[21:51] <ScottK> ryanakca: More like no point in continuing to use it.
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> that would be like using dpatch and quilt at the same time
[21:51] <ScottK> ryanakca: dh 7 does now too.
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> that's source format 3.0 (quilt) that does that, I think
[21:51] <ScottK> That too
[21:51] <ryanakca> Ah, cool. I'll switch to dh7 for bangarang then
[21:51] <apachelogger> all hail source format 3.0
[21:51]  * apachelogger just likes it
[21:52]  * apachelogger doesnt like how long it took to come up with that
[21:52] <JontheEchidna> soyuz doesn't like it though :(
[21:52] <apachelogger> poor old soyuz shoud support .orig.tar.xz really :P
[21:53] <apachelogger> should have since 0.1 IMHO
[21:53] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: That's because it's only been a squeeze release goal since before Lenny was release, so not enough time for LP developers to anticipate they'd need to support it.
[21:54] <JontheEchidna> It's not like they had over a year's notice [/sarcasm]
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> up goes kcm-touchpad_0.3.0-0ubuntu1 mk. III to revu
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> bah, it looks like all of the files are using BSD
[21:57] <txwikinger> I year notice? What is that? NASA?
[21:57]  * apachelogger thinks that soyuz is the best component of launchpad, despite not supporting source format 3 yet
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> not saying much, that is
[21:59]  * ScottK suspects apachelogger has not looked at the soyuz source.
[21:59] <apachelogger> I did not
[21:59]  * apachelogger does not want to either :P
[21:59]  * ScottK hasn't dared, but hears horror stories from those brave enough to look.
[21:59] <apachelogger> I am a launchpad user and I want it to stay that way
[21:59]  * ScottK too
[21:59] <apachelogger> looking at python always makes me quite bitchy
[22:00]  * txwikinger likes some of the visual effects of lp and will look at the source at some time
[22:04] <EagleScreen> is plasma-widget-networkmanagement (karmic) expected to work with a WPA-PSK [TKIP] net?
[22:05] <ScottK> EagleScreen: I am using WPA Personal. I don't recall for sure if that's TKIP, but I think it is.
[22:06] <apachelogger> TKIP is an encryption algorithm
[22:07]  * ScottK knows, but KNM hides it, so it's hard to tell.
[22:07] <apachelogger> WPA-PSK = WPA pre shared key = WPA Personal; TKIP = temporal key integrity protocl = encryption algorithm
[22:07] <apachelogger> the other popular algo for WIFI would be AES
[22:07] <apachelogger> though TKIP is much more popular AFAIK
[22:08] <ScottK> EagleScreen: I'm pretty sure I'm using TKIP.
[22:08] <apachelogger> most likely ... http://compnetworking.about.com/b/2008/08/21/aes-vs-tkip-for-wireless-encryption.htm suggests that TKIP is more widely supported but AES is superior
[22:09] <apachelogger> not that it would mention any sensible data upon he bases the claim that AES is the superior encryption :P
[22:09] <dtchen_> TKIP is enabled by default for most consumer home wireless "routers"
[22:09] <dtchen_> all the WPA attacks so far have exploited flaws in TKIP
[22:09] <amichair> what gui diff+merge util do u recommend? kcompare seems to be read-only :-(
[22:11] <apachelogger> amichair: bzr qdiff, bzr qmerge ... but I think that qmerge supports preview righ tnow
[22:11] <apachelogger> also, I am not sure what you mean with read-only
[22:12] <apachelogger> dtchen_: so he is calling AES superior because no one found and exploited a flaw in AES yet?
[22:12]  * apachelogger finds it hard to believe that AES is flawlessly implemented everywhere :D
[22:13] <dtchen_> apachelogger: I don't know why he would say that AES is superior
[22:13] <dtchen_> the flaws haven't exploited anything in AES *yet*
[22:13] <dtchen_> s/flaw/attack/
[22:13]  * amichair thought TKIP is just switching keys often (vs. AES which is proper encryption)
[22:14] <ryanakca> ScottK:  Should I place bangarang under Applications/Sound or Applications/Video in the menu file? I can pick one of the two but bangarang is as much a music player as a video player...
[22:14] <ScottK> ryanakca: How about multimedia?
[22:15] <ScottK> That's where I see stuff now.
[22:16] <Quintasan> Do we have a package ready? I'd like to test it
[22:17] <ryanakca> ScottK: The multimedia section doesn't exist according to the Debian Menu sub-policy, http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu-policy/ch2.html ... bring it up on debian-devel?
[22:17] <ScottK> ryanakca: Oh, for Debian menu, I'd put it in both.
[22:17] <ScottK> Then let your sponsor tell you if you're wrong.
[22:18] <ryanakca> Quintasan: of? bangarang? Not yet, but it builds without much hassle. Just make sure you have libtag1-dev and kdemultimedia-dev installed...
[22:18] <Quintasan> ryanakca: thanks
[22:18] <apachelogger> amichair: proper encryption would still fail at the implementation
[22:18] <ryanakca> Quintasan: I'm reading into dh7 to figure out how to convert my three line CDBS rules to dh7 rules.
[22:18] <apachelogger> amichair: so IMHO it does not really matter anyway :P
[22:19] <Quintasan> ryanakca: dh7, you are reading man pages or some tutorial?
[22:19] <apachelogger> ryanakca: %:
[22:19] <apachelogger> 	dh --with kde $@
[22:19] <ryanakca> apachelogger: thanks
[22:19] <apachelogger> regular building (i.e. gnu configure) would be the same, just without the --with kde
[22:19] <ryanakca> apachelogger: Still need the make #! at the top?
[22:19] <apachelogger> ryanakca: yes
[22:20] <apachelogger> ryanakca: also see man dh
[22:20] <ryanakca> apachelogger: thanks
[22:20] <apachelogger> IIRC the manpage also mentions how to override certain parts of the building
[22:20] <apachelogger> (i.e. enhance your clean rule and what not)
[22:20] <Quintasan> I always wanted to learn dh but man pages were not so clear for me
[22:21] <amichair> apachelogger: iirc the NIST standards (or whatever they're called today) include unit tests of sorts, so it's hard to mess the implementation (though I'm sure many still do :-) )
[22:21] <ScottK> It's hard to mess it in the known ways that the tests look for.
[22:22] <ScottK> Generally plenty of unkown ways.
[22:22] <apachelogger> unit tests also hit the limitations of human perfection :P
[22:22] <ScottK> ...n...
[22:22] <amichair> ScottK: those would be attacks on the algorithm, not the impl :-)
[22:23] <ScottK> amichair: Not at all.  The tests test as much of the implementation as they test.  Generally it's not 100%.  This is stunningly difficult to achieve with any non-trivial program.
[22:24] <amichair> ScottK: very true, but hash/enc algorithms in particular are different in that sense... the odds of managing to write an incorrect hash function implementation and still manage to get 3 test cases right is soooooo small....
[22:24] <Quintasan> argh
[22:24] <apachelogger> oh wellz, debian managed to mess up openssl, didnt they?
[22:24] <apachelogger> Quintasan: whats up?
[22:24]  * apachelogger gives Quintasan a hug
[22:25] <amichair> apachelogger: good point :-) (or rather :-( )
[22:27] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I'm trying to bite dh7, reading man is quite not what I expected, looks like I know almost nothing on dh: P
[22:27] <Quintasan> dh $@ <-- srsly, wtf is does?
[22:27] <apachelogger> anyone using ncpfs actively?
[22:28] <apachelogger> Quintasan: dh WHATEVERARGUMENTSRULESGETSSTARTEDWITH
[22:28] <apachelogger> not that it would matter in particluarly, just always use dh $@ :P
[22:29] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: You're upstream now for Quick Access widget, right?
[22:29] <Quintasan> still, I need a noobs guide for dh :P
[22:29] <Quintasan> I always used pkg-kde-tools :P
[22:30] <apachelogger> Quintasan: what could be more nooby then that?
[22:32] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I need to actually work on something to understand it, reading ain't enough for me :P
[22:33] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I never used dh thingies because all stuff I packaged was KDE and I just use pkg-kde-tools rules and it worked :P
[22:36] <ScottK> So if I want to stop using Gimp and switch to something KDE, what do I switch to?
[22:36] <ryanakca> What do I need apart from pkg-kde-tools for  dh --with kde to work?
[22:36] <ryanakca> ScottK: Krita?
[22:36] <ScottK> ryanakca: That's likely all you need.
[22:36] <ScottK> Thanks.
[22:37] <ryanakca> ScottK: http://paste.debian.net/51547/ ... :/
[22:38] <ScottK> ryanakca: You need a newer debhelper
[22:40] <ryanakca> ScottK: Available from where... lucid? I have 7.3.15ubntu3 installed, which appears to be the most recent one in Karmic...
[22:40] <ScottK> Likely
[22:40] <Quintasan> ryanakca: should be fine
[22:40] <Quintasan> ryanakca: I just checked if debhelper was >= 7
[22:41]  * ryanakca wonders why his connection's speed has dropped to 16.3kB/s
[22:44] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: correct
[22:45] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Feature request: It'd be nice to gain the ability to right-click and then delete/trash files as I often notice things I should get rid of, but I hate to fire up Dolphin to deal with it.
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: in theory it should follow dolphin settings in that regard
[22:46] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: In practice, I don't have it.
[22:46] <JontheEchidna> :(
[22:46] <Quintasan> dh_auto_build <-- in which part of rules I'm supposed to put this?
[22:47] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I do have it in Dolphin.
[22:48] <JontheEchidna> has plasma been restarted since it was enabled in dolphin? That's the only obvious reason I can think of to explain it
[22:49] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: same here, I have it in dolphin but not in QA, restarted plasma three times
[22:49] <JontheEchidna> meh :(
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> oh, the feature is only in trunk, which I have not had time to mold into something releaseable
[22:59] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: OK, so we get it for Lucid.  Lovely.
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> maybe? dunno. I'll have to find time to work out the regressions
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> I had been meaning to do a new release for karmic but nothing happened :(
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> I will try though
[23:06]  * txwikinger is starting to make dinner plans for next week
[23:12] <Quintasan> do I really need to provide email to contributiors of a package? especially when I can't find em?
[23:14] <ScottK> Quintasan: For debian/copyright you aren't generally obligated to look beyond what's in the source.
[23:14] <Quintasan> ScottK: No emails in source
[23:15] <Quintasan> A general contact email would be enough
[23:15] <ScottK> If that's all you have
[23:22] <Quintasan> bug #192989  is laying around but I don't think it's wise to package this, ppl on #rockbox told me that they tend to make backwards incompatible changes so we either want a PPA for this or just send users to RB Wiki
[23:23] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: ^ Should I close it or do something else with this?
[23:24] <ScottK> I'd leave a comment to that effect.
[23:24] <ScottK> I wouldn't close it because that just makes it harder to find.
[23:24] <DarkwingDuck> YES! My desktop is finally up and  running
[23:25] <Quintasan> ScottK: so leave it as is and put a comment, kay
[23:51] <daskreecH> apachelogger: How about a top 5 ?