[00:17] if an app is set up to run on diff OS's is it acceptable to break that functionality in the package to fix a bug? (Ubuntu is linux only) [00:18] well actually its already broke [00:18] i would just make it actually work for linux [00:18] without fixing the larger bug [00:21] EzraR: Yes. [00:21] Bonus points for working in BSD land since Ubuntu has one downstream that uses that. [00:23] it has diff configs for free,net, and open which would be best suited for that [00:25] nm, im guessing free [00:27] ScottK: We have a BSD downstream? [00:28] wgrant: Nexunta or something like that? [00:28] ScottK: That's OpenSolaris. [00:28] Ah. [00:28] EzraR: Nevermind [00:28] That's what I get trying to remember stuff when I have flu. [02:22] Could someone test my patch for Bug #481677 please [02:22] Launchpad bug 481677 in ubuntu-docs "Server Doc 9.10: Disable Control-Alt-Delete is out of date" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/481677 [02:24] I'm new at this, so would like some feedback if anyone has any. [03:17] How are sync requests scheduled? I see a NEW (to ubuntu) package in testing that I need synced to Lucid before I can do a sync request of a package with local changes. [03:22] lfaraone: Just wait a bit. [03:24] ScottK: mk. [04:06] hello [04:06] umm [04:06] i would like to know [04:06] how to develop for ubuntu [04:06] i do C java and C++ and the likes [04:10] master: hi :) [04:12] i suppose you could have a look at the bugtracker. the ones marked "triaged" are the ones that should have enough info for you to fix them, but you may want to start with triaged ones tagged "bitesize" to work your way up the tough ones if you're not too experienced yet [04:12] note also that we're having the developer summit next week. you can listen in to streams of it and participate over irc...or at least just get a feel for how decisions happen around here and what new stuff is coming [04:13] at some point, you'll probably want to learn to package up your patches. for that, i think daniel holbach's videos on youtube are fantastic [04:14] master: is that the sort of info you were looking for? [04:16] master: this is a good place to start https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment [04:17] master: For MOTU-related stuff you can also start at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted . At some point reading the Packaging Guide https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete would also be good :) [04:17] * maco should get around to learning C++ [04:19] wow i dont think i ever actually read the wiki page i linked O_o [04:23] maco: Well, you became a MOTU without it, so you can't have missed *that* much :) [04:23] jmarsden: i missed the bit about linking to "how to package without debhelper" [04:24] also the sponsorship page? i apparently requested sponsorship rather wrong rather often. didnt know you were supposed to assign to nobody [04:25] k [04:25] but [04:25] im not sure how to go about making the patch [04:25] ah ok [04:25] have you ever used the diff command? [04:27] hmm wait lets back up [04:28] ok first, you find out what package contains whatever bug you want to fix. if its one on launchpad, youre good. if one you found "dpkg -S " replacing with the command that runs the program you found the bug in [04:28] then you get that package in source form: apt-get source [04:28] then itll unpack a directory of source code for you [04:29] i would then run: cp -lr original_source/ modified_source/ (replace original_source with the directory name) [04:29] cd into modified_source/ and make whatever edits are necessary to fix the bug [04:30] then run: diff -rU original_source/ modified_source/ > fixstuff.patch [04:30] there's your patch! [04:34] you can also make a debdiff, but there are directions elsewhere for that. a patch is good enough to attach to a bug report and have someone do something with it. if you want to know how to make a debdiff see daniel holbach & james westby's ubuntu open week session logs from a couple weeks ago [04:34] master: does that help? [04:38] thanks so much maco [04:38] no problem :) [04:40] what is the usual language the sources are in? [04:40] most of GNOME is C, most of KDE is C++, both have a lot of Python programs as well [04:40] ive yet to use my Java in FOSS [04:40] underlying system stuff is usually C as well [04:41] k [04:41] cos i dont do python [04:41] neither do i [04:41] i just do C or Java [04:41] you can learn basic Python in less than 1 day ;) [04:42] mm [04:42] ok [04:42] yeah...ive done a couple of patches in python without knowing python [04:42] it looks like pseudocode, but it happens to run [04:42] contrary to C++, you need about 10 years to learn basic C++ ;) [04:43] haha...i need to get around to that [04:43] only knowing how to code for the DE i dont use anymore is a little ick [04:43] even the inventor of C++ admits he doesn't understand C++, so... [04:43] bjarne? [04:43] yeah ☺ [04:44] ...he didnt say anything bad about c++ when he got up to speak about it [04:44] well, he wrote it in the book I have; actually he said he doesn't understand all the corner cases of C++ [04:45] and AFAIK nobody does (there are no 2 C++ compilers that interpret it alike) [04:46] hpux's c++ compiler will quote page & line numbers at you when you screw up [04:46] of the C++ specification [04:46] which is why most projects agree to use only a subset of C++ ;) [04:46] moz devs learned quickly that if it fails to compile on hpux, the hpux compiler is right [04:47] there are valid C++ constructs that can have 2 meanings according to the spec, no way a compiler can decide what's right ;) [04:47] too bad the C++ specifications are non-free ;-) [04:47] in a quite literal financial sense of the term. [04:47] jdong: thats rather sucky [04:47] indeed [04:47] jdong: well, the drafts that get approved are free most of the time [04:48] I needed it the other day to help a friend make a pedantic point on homework. [04:48] i.e. declaring an int main without explicitly returning. [04:58] open office is programmed in java rite? [04:58] no [04:58] it's primarily programmed in C++ [04:58] no, most of OO.o is C++, with some parts in Java [04:58] o [04:58] ok [04:58] multimedia portions are in Java [04:58] 00.o??? [04:58] but are "optional" ish. [04:58] e.g. the database is in Java IIRC [04:59] master: upstream insists that it's called OpenOffice.org [04:59] and never shortened in any other manner. [04:59] o [04:59] kk [04:59] jdong: OpenOffice is a company in the Netherlands that is way older than OO.o ;) [04:59] :) [05:00] they actually distribute StarOffice and now OpenOffice.org [05:00] and help promote it [05:01] they do the whole "open office" stuff, including operating systems on server & desktop, applications, etc. [05:01] * jdong nods [05:02] they even promote Ubuntu ☺ [05:11] anyone here knows how to do OS programming [05:14] * maco looks at jdong [05:14] im not done with OS class yet [05:15] but jdong knows everything about everything [05:15] jdong has currently enteredCriticalSection.... [05:15] err that didn't sound right. [05:15] hahahaha [05:15] I meant to express jdong is busy right now with WORK and not interruptible. [05:15] critical section works... [05:17] master: "OS Programming" could be a lot of things. What are you trying to do? [05:18] lol [05:20] OS programming: working out why grub2 sticks an invalid vg entry in its list of lvs, causing it to segfault. [05:23] RAOF, halp, Docky needs you [05:23] DBO: Trade you a working grub for help on Docky? :) [05:23] mmmm, I suggest LILO, its the bestest [05:23] Won't boot from lvm [05:24] IIRC [05:24] it's called a /boot partition. [05:24] *ducks* [05:24] * DBO was being sarcastic [05:49] lilo does boot from lvms. [05:50] granted, I don't recall if it was a *SUSE setup [05:51] maco: eh, I'm quite certain I've bopped you over the noggin with "don't assign unless explicitly granted permission" [05:51] dtchen_: yeah i know *that* [05:51] OTOH, you do have an amazing ability to tune out everything I say [05:52] i mean i didnt know you were supposed to unassign after you attach your debdiff and before you subscribe sponsors [05:53] in all honesty, sure, you're supposed to, but if your sponsor can't be arsed to do that herself/himself, then... [05:58] dtchen_, grub2 also boot from lvms [05:59] fabrice_sp: yes. I'd be rather up a creek if it didn't. [05:59] :-) [08:09] I should say, Karmic is the first time I found the default desktop theme actually enjoyable. [10:12] hi, I've written a couple of patches for bugs in bash-completion and attached them to the relevant bugs; could someone give me information on what I do next? This is my first delve and I'm not sure what the "sponsor queue" is etc. [10:22] m4rtin: have you created debdiffs? [10:24] randomaction: yes, I have uploaded the debdiff as an attachment on the bug and tested the fix using dpkg. Just read the Sponsoring process and gathered I am now supposed to subscribe the sponsors, so just did that. Was that correct? [10:24] yes [10:24] and set status to Confirmed [10:25] yep, status Confirmed, assigned-to: Unassigned [10:25] if it's a regular bug (i.e. not security or SRU) [10:30] yeah, just regular - thank you :) [10:31] presumably it will then show up in the sponsor queue listed above (delayed?) [10:31] yes it will [10:34] m4rtin: is it bug 435055? [10:34] Launchpad bug 435055 in bash-completion "Bash completion for wget -o doesn't escape spaces." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435055 [10:35] yes [10:35] (don't laugh! I appreciate it's a tiny bug, but I thought a small fix for a first attempt at submitting would be preferable) [10:36] I'm not a MOTU but I think I can give you some hints [10:36] so that your debdiff looks better [10:37] the syntax for closing a bug in changelog is LP: 435055 [10:37] sorry, LP: #435055 [10:38] and the target in changelog should be lucid, not karmic [10:39] ah ok, let me fix that. Presumably I should change control and changelog and then re-"debuild" [10:40] yes, or for such small changes you can hand-edit your debdiff === ApOgEE__ is now known as ApOgEE [10:42] and this package uses a patch system (quilt) [10:42] ah ok, thanks - my other question was, do you have any tips for this kind of situation: say I fix a bug and then want to work on another in the same package, the debdiff must be against the current source I assume, so installing will re-introduce the existing bugs I have fixed... any recommendations? [10:43] oh, does that (quilt) mean that I have missed something? [10:44] you should format your change as a patch contained in debian/patches [10:44] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems [10:45] damn. ok - let me go have a read [10:49] so, if I understand correctly, I should 1.) make my changes 2.) push a new patch 3.) create a quilt README 4.) quilt refresh 5.) pop the patch [10:51] no, I assume 1 and 2 were the wrong way around [10:51] you run: 1) quilt push -a (applies all patches) 2) quilt new 3) quilt add 4) 5) quilt refresh [10:52] would be bash_completion in your case [10:53] ok - I'll redo the patch and attach it. Thanks for the help and apologies for my ignorance [10:53] and 0) export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches [10:54] and dch (before or after, as you wish) [10:54] dch should be at step 4? or is this irrelevant? [10:54] (and do I need to submit a debdiff as well as the quilt diff?) [10:55] additions to debian/changelog don't go into quilt patch [10:55] ah ok, so it doesn't matter when that is done [10:55] generally, patch systems are used to track changes outside of debian/ [10:55] yes [10:55] and, therefore, I assume a debdiff is also used [10:56] and quilt patch will make it into debdiff [10:56] oh ok great :) [10:57] actually, presumably the quilt patch system also deals with my problem of multiple changes, because I just push another change (provided there are no changes to the same file) [10:58] if can fix several bugs in one upload (one debdiff) [10:59] *you can [10:59] I think, as this is my first attempt, I'll stick to just fixing one very simple bug and learn to get it right === asac_ is now known as asac [11:07] randomaction: do I need to do a quilt add README? PackakingGuide suggests so, but your instructions didn't [11:08] it's required by Debian policy, so Debian maintainer of the package should do it at some point [11:08] but I should not? [11:08] this qualifies as a general cleanup, so shouldn't be done in a bugfix [11:09] ok, thank you [11:09] the difference between Debian and Ubuntu should be kept minimal for ease of maintenance [11:09] right, I've done my quilt refresh [11:10] do I then need to pop the patch? [11:10] debuild will do it [11:10] oh ok, so now I just go through the same debuild process as usual? [11:12] do you have a new patch created in debian/patches? [11:12] and its name in debian/patches/series? [11:13] yep [11:13] you should be ok to debuild then [11:13] great - I'll give it a shot [11:22] and it's up there === quinda is now known as etali [12:17] What is the reasoning behind disabling apport for a final release? [13:36] sponsors, can someone take a look on bug #413657 ? [13:36] Launchpad bug 413657 in ubuntu "Please sync tor 0.2.1.19-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/413657 === fenris__ is now known as ejat [14:51] ari-tczew: you have e-mail WRT coccinelle. [14:52] diwic: no real need to flood LP [14:56] whois Laney Laney [14:56] idle time, eh? [14:57] damn... well, Laney, I will point you to a mail I've just sent to debian-legal wrt pidgin-facebookchat [14:57] yup :) [15:00] dtchen_: but is it really necessary? LP has duplicate detection, and it would be useful to catch bugs in the stable distribution. [15:00] diwic: I'm not one to debate this particular policy :-) [15:06] DktrKranz: jpds is the maintainer of pidgin-facebookchat in Debian. [15:08] bddebian: hiya, any ETA for libsdl1.2_1.2.14 in Debian? Any way I can assist? [15:08] iulian: err... indeed :) [15:08] anyway, jpds and iulian: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2009/11/msg00029.html [15:08] DktrKranz: Yea, I've read the mail. [15:09] Thanks. [15:09] dtchen_: I know they asked upstream to add pkg-config files but other than that no, I don't know yet :( [15:09] I'm not sure if it's your case, but if it is, thee could be legal troubles [15:10] DktrKranz: Indeed. [15:10] bddebian: ok. 1.2.14 is blocking a buttload of audio bugs for me, but that's not such a big issue; I'd just rather not spend cycles backporting to 1.2.13. Thanks! [15:10] diwic - apport is disabled in the stable distribution mainly because the bugs that users will report are all duplicates of the bugs we already know about from testing [15:10] in that case, all it does is annoy users and spam people subscribed to those bug reports [15:11] s/all/mostly [15:11] chrisccoulson: I thought LP automatically duplicated those with the existing ones [15:12] that would be part of the spam :-) [15:13] indeed, dtchen is right [15:13] apport is just not very useful in a stable distribution, when users are just going to report bugs that we already know exist [15:14] dtchen_: Understood. Let me see if I can push the issue. [15:14] bddebian: no sweat, seriously. I have so many other bugs. :-) [15:15] Don't we all? :) [15:16] nah, I could use a few more. :-) [15:16] I have a couple I could give you :) [15:16] I'm not saying bitrot is a good thing :-) [15:17] wow this channel looks happy today [15:17] I think there's a coccinelle upload in your future, maco. [15:18] ok [15:18] (http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~dtchen/upload_queue/) [15:18] my keys are on laptop. think its ok to get it out? [15:18] chrisccoulson: I don't really agree, but at least I get the reasoning. [15:18] maco: (eh, you're ircing from class; I think you know the answer to that question) [15:20] dtchen_ ...no? [15:21] maco: look into debsign -r if you haven't already [15:22] That assumes that her laptop or other machine with keys are network accessible [15:23] true [15:23] Hobbseeok [15:23] but if they weren't accessible, then why would she be asking if it was ok to get them out? ;) [15:23] StevenK yeah i can get on the school vpn :) [15:24] booo @ freenode java applet. it doesnt put a space after tab-completing names [15:27] * StevenK didn't know Freenode had one of those [15:28] http://java.freenode.net/ [15:28] they added it when they banned mibbit [15:28] Ahhh [15:38] they.... [15:38] replaced an AJAX applet with a Java applet? [15:43] qa.ubuntuwire.com isn't work :-( [15:47] jdong they figured they could control the java applet better than they could abuses of mibbit [15:47] lol [15:48] if they switch it to Macromedia Shockwave they'd have no abuses! [15:48] * maco headdesk [15:49] jdong: Or users [15:50] that's the whole point :) [15:50] or switch it to silverlight and only directhex will be on IRC. [15:50] *DUCKS* ;-) [15:57] bug 476360 and bug 428017 has a fix uploaded to karmic-proposed. It's waiting for a MOTU SRU ACK. If someone has time. the first bug fix make the plugin work again [15:57] Launchpad bug 476360 in kopete-facebook "Never able to connect to facebook" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476360 [15:57] Launchpad bug 428017 in kopete-facebook "plugin does not know it is offline" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428017 [15:58] jdong: ^^^ [15:58] diwic - why don't you agree? what do you think would be the benefit for enabling it by default? [15:58] just missed him, apparently :/ [15:58] ScottK: thanks :) [15:59] heh, just noticed that. thanks [16:00] any sponsor bored here? :P bug #482663 [16:00] Launchpad bug 482663 in incron "Merge incron 0.5.9-2 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482663 [16:01] maco: *cough* s/karmic/lucid/ ! [16:01] dtchen_: yeah yeah just did that [16:01] i noticed quick and poked Hobbsee [16:02] maco: danke [16:02] yay for soyuz auto-rejecting it [16:02] :( i screwed up already [16:02] that's hardly a screw-up [16:03] just don't break the toolchain like I did :-) [16:03] bbigras: both diffs look good to me [16:03] ScottK: am I blind, or is there no kopete-facebook in the queue/ [16:03] (I hope those were uploaded against karmic-proposed, versioned properly) [16:03] dtchen_: O_o [16:03] jdong: It's not uploaded yet, but I think there's a debdiff in the bug [16:04] Riddell said he was waiting on a ack to upload [16:04] hmmph two separate bugs [16:04] should we make one new SRU bug to encampass both diffs? === someone is now known as Guest6782 [16:11] bbigras: ok I gave you an ACK on bug 476360 to proceed with karmic-proposed SRU'ing of both patches [16:11] Launchpad bug 476360 in kopete-facebook "Never able to connect to facebook" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/476360 [16:12] I see Riddell already uploaded them to Lucid as one, so the same will work for karmic-proposed... [16:12] jdong: ok thanks, is there documentation about how and where to upload it? [16:13] ScottK: can you help bbigras through the rest of the process? I gotta head out for a meeting right now [16:14] jdong and bbigras: Not right now, as I'm heading out too, but we'll get it taken care of. [16:15] ScottK: ok thanks. I'll ping Riddell to see if he has time [16:53] ScottK: when ubuntu-archive will sync packages? [17:01] ari-tczew: usually the archive admin of the day processes them, but with uds next week I don't expect to see them processed before the week after uds [17:04] OK [17:11] how do i modify a patch which have been created with quilt? [17:13] quilt push patchname; edit files; quilt refresh; quilt pop -a [17:13] apply the patch with quilt, edit the files you need to modify (don't forget to add them, if they aren't already touched by that patch), "quilt refresh" [17:21] sorry, very bad connection [17:22] DrKranz: where should i run quilt push? in the root of the package or in debian dir? [17:22] in package root, you probably have to export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches beforehand [17:23] yes [17:23] it works now [17:23] ;) [17:45] anyone know a way I can convert diff in RCS format to unified format? [18:09] jdong: time to put your motu-sru hat on for bug #433924 ? [18:09] Launchpad bug 433924 in drpython "[Karmic] DrPython misconfiguration (cannot find /usr/share/pyshared/drpython)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433924 === yofel_ is now known as yofel [18:18] how often https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html is updating? [18:31] ari-tczew: /topic #ubuntu-devel: MoM up to date as of Monday 4am, but now stalled [19:58] jdong: Looking for an ack for Bug 384929 [19:58] Launchpad bug 384929 in easytag "Manual search via CDDB is broken" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384929 [19:59] jdong: while youre at it bug 317366 needs an sru ack [19:59] Launchpad bug 317366 in rxvt-unicode "urxvt menu hangs urxvt with x input frozen" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317366 [20:11] ok ok jdong just returned from 2 hours to himself [20:11] let him catch up and caffeinate first! [20:11] jdong talks about jdong in the 3rd person? [20:11] for now he does [20:14] ScottK: 384929 acked. [20:14] jdong: Thanks. [20:16] Meh. Too late (you added your comment) [20:17] and debdiff on 317366 is acked. [20:18] nov 5th... wonder why that never made it to my LP bugmail [20:18] oh. 15 minutes ago [20:18] must've been recently subscribed [20:18] jdong: thanks [20:19] welcome :) [20:20] jdong: that bug has tasks open for karmic and jaunty. is ack for both? [20:21] maco: I only saw a debdiff for Karmic, but a similar debdiff at jaunty would be covered under the ACK too :) [20:21] jdong: okiedoo [20:23] how would you list multiple lp bugs in a changelog would (LP: #nnnn, nnnn2, nnnn3) work? [20:23] i think you need to include LP: each time [20:23] that's correct. [20:24] so it would be (LP: #nnnn, LP: #nnnn2, LP: #nnnn3) [20:24] correct [20:24] ok thanks [20:24] jdong: ergh...jaunty and karmic are both 9.06-1 so karmic's gettin -1ubuntu0.1, but what would jaunty get? O_o [20:24] ugh I hate this game. [20:25] lucid got -2ubuntu1 [20:25] well we've got a couple options here.... [20:25] we could play the game the security team plays with Firefox releases [20:25] 9.06-1ubuntu0.1.9.04 and 9.06-1ubuntu0.1.9.10 or something like that [20:25] i.e. 1ubuntu0.9.04.0 [20:25] i.e. 1ubuntu0.9.04.1 [20:26] or we can play geser's game :) [20:26] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update%20the%20packaging [20:27] when you have colliding versions, the best way to handle it is the ubuntu0.MM.mm.1 style [20:27] cool. [20:27] kees wins because he has a wiki citation! [20:27] heh. not sure if that counts, since I wrote it. ;) [20:28] hahaha :) [20:28] well if I could make stuff up on the SRU wiki page I would too ;-) [20:28] hehe [20:28] 9.06-1ubuntu0.9.10.1) karmic-proposed; and [20:28] jdong: quick write two wiki pages to trump kees' one wiki page :) [20:28] (9.06-1ubuntu0.9.04.1) jaunty-proposed; ? [20:29] hahaha [20:29] maco: reasonable to me. [20:29] * jdong would eventually like to see backports use numeric suffixes too [20:29] since not very far from now we are gonna run out of ascending letters [20:29] ok now what about the part where i realized jaunty was the same version *after* uploading karmic's? [20:29] maco: You want 1ubuntu0.09.04.1 [20:29] (the missing leading 0 is important) [20:30] maco: that part, you've got ScottK with the big red button. [20:30] ScottK: oh god. 2010 is coming. [20:30] Yep. 2012 too [20:30] haha [20:30] UGLY version strings [20:31] no, ugly would be Qt. [20:32] I think I've done a few myself. [20:32] ScottK: can you hit that button? [20:32] people should only change packages with patches and link the patch to the changelog entry [20:33] that would make life easy [20:33] maco: it's not that ugly - have you seen qt version from karmic? ;) [20:33] kklimonda: jinx [20:33] does it have a "-really"? [20:33] yeah [20:33] no, no hyphen === IVBela1 is now known as IVBela [20:34] did it hurt too much to bump the epoch? [20:34] right, no hyphen but really is there... and I can remember an even better version string from the past.. [20:35] jdong: then we would have to convince debian maintainer to add epoch too [20:35] maco: If you're going to use the release number approach you need to do it for both Karmic and Jaunty. [20:35] (I remember similar discussion from 6 months ago when we had a similar problem with python-storm) [20:36] is there a way to convert a patch from rcs format to unified? [20:36] ScottK: hence red button [20:36] ScottK: im redoing with it for both of them [20:36] OK. Rejected [20:36] thank ye [20:36] No problem. [20:36] oh man, old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe . *shudder* [20:37] kklimonda: i remember apache or mysql or something like that having a "really" string [20:37] maco: I think it was mysql [20:38] yeah i think so too [20:38]