=== BenC2 is now known as BenC [00:16] I've been reading this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-June/028297.html What was the verdict for someone still on Jaunty? [00:41] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bug/289852 I tried that stuff too, and still no love [00:41] Launchpad bug 289852 in cups "intrepid: printing very slow (dup-of: 382379)" [Undecided,Incomplete] [00:41] Launchpad bug 382379 in poppler "pdftops CUPS filter has several problems" [High,Fix released] [00:48] Anyone know how to get the fix for bug#382379, or have I already got it and it still isn't working? === mike is now known as Guest64153 === mike is now known as Guest79287 [03:41] has anyone been able to get googletalk to work from the hotel? [03:43] finally just magically started working [04:39] In what timezone is the schedule on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/2009-11-16/ ? [04:39] According to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/ it says EST, but timeanddate.com says dallas is in CST. [04:41] Dallas is CST [04:43] So http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l/ is wrong then? [04:44] And https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-l says UTC, to add to the confusion === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === SEJeff_ is now known as SEJeff_home [07:15] Can anyone tell me if a bunch of video drivers have been removed from recent kernels? I'm beginning to suspect this has happened... [07:23] foobarmus: Such as? [07:25] foobarmus: I'm not aware of anything like that. [07:26] RAOF: um, I dunno... I have 2 boxes each with a different card... Having trouble getting both Karmic and a recent download of Hardy to spit out anything more than 800x600 on either of them [07:26] RAOF: never had this kind of trouble b4... have been using ubuntu for years, on all kinds of hardware [07:27] What video cards? The kernel doesn't tend to drop support for anything, but you may well be running into Proprietary Driver Annoyance™ [07:28] <\sh> moins [07:28] <\sh> guys, the times on summit.u.c are in UTC, right? [07:28] RAOF: they are pretty bog standard cards, nvidia maybe... one is about 6 yrs old, the other 3 yrs old [07:29] nvidia, mmm proprietary hardware [07:29] foobarmus: Well, nvidia is likely proprietary hell. Particularly since they'll have dropped support for your card in recent drivers. [07:30] have had multiple installs of ubu running on both boxes b4, everything from dapper to Jaunty... now I can't seem to install anything [07:30] (We now have 4 different versions of the nvidia driver in the repositories) [07:30] RAOF: hmmm... so I should go back to an older kernel? [07:31] RAOF: or older release? [07:31] RAOF: is nouveau nvidia or ati? [07:31] foobarmus: #ubuntu is probably a better place for troubleshooting. You should be able to get Karmic working on both your systems, but I can't tell you how :) [07:32] lifeless: nouveau is nvidia. The radeon is ati. [07:32] foobarmus: so, #ubuntu, but also try the nouveau driver (or if you are, try the proprietary one) [07:32] RAOF: Thanks for the info [07:32] lifeless: cheers [07:32] lifeless: (Fun fact: nouveau is called nouveau because the first (French) developer had a text-substitution alias for 'nv->nouveau') === \sh is now known as shermann === shermann is now known as \sh [09:04] how does one debug an upstart job? [09:05] <\sh> hyperair: vi /boot/grub/menu.lst add --verbose or --debug to the kernel command line [09:05] \sh: is there any way i can debug an upstart job without rebooting? [09:06] $ sudo start apport [09:06] start: Job failed to start [09:06] that's all i see [09:06] running the pre-start script manually in dash or bash works [09:06] and there's no exec [09:06] i can't figure out why it's not working [09:06] <\sh> hyperair, http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Debugging [09:09] <\sh> hyperair, eventually because it's not enabled in /etc/default/apport [09:09] hmmm [09:09] ah [09:09] thanks [09:10] i feel stupid now [09:10] heh [09:29] hi - could someone tell me how udev does handle keyboards and joysticks to create eventN on hiddevN ? === asac_ is now known as asac === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [14:14] dendro-afk: hrr, awaynick ): === chuck_ is now known as zul === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === ev1 is now known as ev === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dyfet` is now known as dyfet [16:13] Do we have a script to "import" a Debian bug into a LP one? [16:13] (create a LP bug from a Debian bug) === highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage [16:32] i think i just made gnome-terminal crash! [16:32] all my tabs! [16:32] gone! [16:32] :C [16:33] yes, well that's a design flaw (robustness) in g-t, isn't it ... [16:33] * cjwatson uses pterm O:-) [16:33] gtk 1.2 :O [16:34] but does pterm have tabs? ;) [16:34] hdon: not in karmic [16:34] highvoltage: no, and I like it that way :) [16:34] oh [16:34] i suppose i should upgrade eventually [16:34] separate processes => one crash doesn't take out everything [16:35] (obviously xterm etc. are the same) === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [16:35] * hdon can't imagine an acceptable circumstance for terminal emulator crash === Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk [16:35] hdon: sure, but there's this principle called "defence in depth" ... [16:35] cjwatson: I guess all the cool people us screen anyway [16:35] cjwatson: xterm instances are in one process? [16:35] hdon: each xterm instance is a single process === BenC1 is now known as BenC [16:36] perhaps g-t should be a transparent frontend to screen! [16:36] ah, ok. i thought i had entered a parallel universe or something [16:37] holy shit [16:37] lmao [16:37] i ran gnome-terminal --disable-factory so that i could recreate the crash and see what it says [16:37] but when i did it, both of my terminals crashed. *should have seen that coming* [16:38] wow, now i cannot recreate the crash at all [16:38] * hdon scratches his head [16:39] hmm, there we go, that did it [16:39] i think i know how to recreate it now [16:39] of course maybe it isn't even in karmic [16:41] oh well i can't mess with this right now [16:41] if someone else wants to investigate, try menu/Terminal/Set Character Encoding/Add\Remove [16:41] and then try adding one [16:42] that caused a crash for me. maybe only if there is more than one gnome-terminal running. i can't be sure [16:42] running with --disable-factory may protect from crash [16:42] cjwatson: i think --disable-factory will get you a new process for each gnome-terminal, but that did not mean the crash didn't take down all my gnome-terminal processes anyway [16:42] i suspect it's some kind of race condition somewhere [16:43] for some shared resource concerning available character encodings [16:45] what's the summit IRC channel? [16:45] #ubuntu-devel-summit === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === ryu2 is now known as ryu [17:07] Could someone tell me how udev detect and handle keyboards and joysticks? Through all changes in Karmic I have lost the path.... [17:08] a link to some documentations are pretty welcome! [17:37] Amaranth: ping === highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage [17:41] snnw: pong [17:43] hi, I noticed in Alacarta's git repository that you started a rewrite in Vala a couple months back. Can you tell me if there are any plans on replacing the python implementation with yours? [17:45] I was writing a few patches for the python one, but if that's a dead end I'd rather work on the newer code base [17:47] If this is not a good time, I can ping you later. === RainCT_ is now known as RainCT === j_ack_ is now known as j_ack [18:03] Amaranth: still there? [18:12] snnw: I'd like to see the vala one finished but it's somewhat stalled on libgarcon [18:12] snnw: So I doubt the vala one will replace the python one before gnome-shell replaces alacarte completely === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn [18:18] Amaranth: Thanks, I think I'll stick with the python one for now, then. It's kind of nice, working on a small project like this :) === nxvl_ is now known as nxvl === `Alessio` is now known as quadrispro [19:09] Hey guys, i was hiding some unmounted partitions with DevKit / udev Rules, but i search for a way to hide these partitions completely from the system not only from gnome / nautilus. Can anyone help me?! [19:09] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poppler/+bug/382379 The fix has been released. How do I go about implementing it? [19:10] Launchpad bug 382379 in poppler "pdftops CUPS filter has several problems" [High,Fix released] [19:10] Kartinka: We've told you before - this is not the right channel for this discussion [19:11] i search only for sb i won't talk in the chan... === YDdraigGoch is now known as Richie === thekorn is now known as foobar === foobar is now known as thekorn [20:05] to which channel did Kartinka go? [20:06] here [20:06] i'am [20:06] ^^ [20:06] can you help me? [20:06] forscher? [20:34] does upstart do a sync anywhere at reboot? [20:34] I'm seeing somewhat reproducible FS data loss when rebooting right after heavy IO [20:39] if (! no_sync) [20:39] sync (); [20:39] hmm. Seems like it should :-/ [20:39] * jdong blames btrfs [20:39] Sounds like a good thing to blame :-P [20:40] lol hey hey! [20:40] at least I don't have to iteratively download and md5sum my >500MB files :P [20:40] Does btrfs actually support sync? :-) [20:42] StevenK: as far as I know, yes :) [20:43] you just enjoy the bleeding edge [20:43] * soren hugs his XFS filesystems [20:43] * jdong switched from XFS to btrfs on this server :) [20:44] No sympathy, then. [20:44] :) [20:44] partly to help the cause, partly because I was tired of XFS taking 2 minutes to clean pbuilders [20:44] lol nothing actually was lost though :) [20:45] jdong: 2 minutes to clean pbuilder? You got that bad unlink performance? [20:45] yeah, on XFS [20:45] any nontrivial pbuilder takes minutes to clean [20:46] unlink performance on XFS for me has been pretty horrible with a collection of small files [20:46] Wow. [20:46] I mean, I love XFS -- my media storage partition is still XFS [20:47] but... there's certainly some things that XFS simply wasn't designed to excel at. [20:49] I know it has less than stellar unlink performance, but I've never seen anything as bad as what you're describing. [20:49] any nontrivial pbuilder should use sbuild + schroot w/ LVM snapshots ;) [20:49] Yeah, I used to think that. My stance now is "any nontrivial build should use PPAs" :-P [20:50] * soren uses tarballs for his sbuild [20:50] ebroder: depending on your upstream bandwidth :) [20:50] Oh, also, you don't want LVM snapshots, because their performance sucks, too. You actually want the aufs support added in schroot 1.3 [20:50] aufs sounds like a good idea for this [20:50] or.... btfsctl -S.... [20:50] *ducks* [20:50] It performs better (no overhead of dm_snapshot), it doesn't waste space, it allows bigger builds.. It's pretty awesome. [20:51] aufs with a tmpfs for the overlay is going to be faster than ~anything that writes to disk, so long as you have the RAM for it [20:52] anything that avoids hitting the disk overly much is great on a laptop [20:52] Even counting the time it takes to unpack tarballs, it still beats lvm snapshot based sbuilds even for relatively small builds. [20:52] jdong: I'm wondering why btrfs takes that long to mature. Started 2006 afaik, big company behind it and it has the attention of the community. Will be stable in 2010 earliest imho [20:53] sebner: given that 2010 is a few weeks away... [20:53] sebner: eh they're playing the game responsibly. [20:55] ajmitch: and lasts 365 days :P [20:56] jdong: isn't game responsibility to push out stuff to early? [20:57] Yes [20:57] It is though [20:57] It's in mainline, easy to build git checkouts... [20:57] Dunno what else one expects [20:58] jdong: with whom do we need to stay in bed in order to get btrfs installable with lucid like fedora offers now :P [20:58] hi, would bug 402188 qualify for a SRU? The patch has been tested in a ppa and works fine. [20:58] Launchpad bug 402188 in vim "gvim complains about "gtk_form_set_static_gravity: assertion `static_gravity_supported' failed" in the shell it's started from" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402188 [21:05] Hmm...when I run 'manage-credentials create -c ubuntu-dev-tools -l 2' on my Karmic machine, then fill out the web form, then hit enter in manage-creds, I get a 401 error [21:06] Oh wait - classtime. I'll try again later [21:16] sebner: seems like you need to sleep with a debian-installer/ubiquity developer ;-) [21:16] sebner: and possibly a GRUB2 dev too [21:17] jdong: heh, grub2 ubuntu-dev as fedora and suse already support that stuff. We could pull the patch from there [21:17] sebner: wait where'd this patch come from?? [21:18] I've been keeping my eye on the associated debian bug and no patch AFAIK [21:18] jdong: fedora/suse? [21:20] well I don't think fedora/suse use grub-probe for this purpose [21:20] namely due to the multi-rooted nature of btrfs, grub-probe cannot identify the device node associated with a btrfs volume [21:20] which causes update-grub to bork out [21:20] a Debianism... [21:27] jdong: it seems they are always ahead of us :P [21:27] often true [21:28] jdong: we are not bleeding/cutting edge enough :P [21:28] nor is OpenSUSE. [21:29] jdong: well, it's suse. I just mentioned it because of btrfs. No one wants suse :P [21:31] does someone know if the MIT kerberos are attending UDS-L? They where at UDS Jaunty. If they are, I would love to have a quick chat with them, got a thorny problem [21:32] 0/64 [22:03] Greetings and salutations === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [22:04] Any rsyslog implementers present? I'm confused about what/where the template RSYSLOG_TraditionalFileFormat is or points to. [22:10] ok, nm found it. Is there any reason why high-precision timestamps are turned off? [22:10] asac, pitti: VPN? [22:15] sebner: there's a blueprint for that already, later this week === chuck_ is now known as zul [22:15] sebner: there's a grub patch from fedora, but grub2 != grub and it's not trivial to forward-port. In this case the problem is that they are too far behind us :P [22:16] sebner: they kind of tossed it over the wall to grub-devel, but haven't volunteered to do the forward-port [22:17] jdong: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2009-09/msg00381.html and thread [22:18] cjwatson: heh, nice you catched up as I thought of being punched to death because lucid will be LTS :) [22:18] sebner: why did you anticipate a violent death? [22:19] no, I'd like to support btrfs. I certainly don't think it should be the default though [22:19] I don't think lucid will quite be 'no new features', just sane defaults [22:20] cjwatson: oh well, not even myself considers btrfs "defaultable" ;) [22:20] jdong might :) [22:20] cjwatson: I was speaking about fedora12 btw, still wondering if they have grub2 now [22:22] sebner: if they have a btrfs patch for grub2, they have not seen fit to contribute it upstream, and upstream is to the best of my knowledge unaware of it [22:25] cjwatson: ah right and so opensuse sticks to grub too. HAHA ubuntu ftw! [22:28] lol never said I want to default to btrfs [22:28] it'd just be nice to make it an available option in the installer [22:28] Blargh. Did bug #483813 get filed correctly? requestsync errored out in the middle - I didn't realize it had even filed the bug [22:29] jdong: to me it's the same :P [22:29] Launchpad bug 483813 in schroot "Sync schroot 1.3.1-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/483813 [22:31] aren't there supposed to be diffstats and such attached to requestsyncs? [22:31] jdong: as an archive admin I wouldn't look at them ... :) [22:32] I don't think I've ever seen or attached diffstats [22:32] * sebner too [22:32] it's more relevant for SRUs & fixes close to release [22:33] it might be freeze exceptions then :) [22:33] anyways [22:33] I've certainly never seen requestsync attach debdiffs [22:33] * sebner wishes a good night everybody! :) [22:33] night sebner [22:33] lol at this stage in Lucid I'd expect it to be big-rubber-stamp protocol anyway ;-) [22:33] Anyway, just wanted to make sure the bug was in place right (not that I'd object to somebody looking at it :-P) [22:34] * jdong hands ebroder the subtle bugprod award of the day. [22:34] *shrug* Or I could wait a week and a half, at which point hopefully I'd be able to ACK it myself [22:36] when was the last autosync run? i'm still not seeing things that have been in squeeze since pre-karmic-release [22:43] directhex: It's run by hand. I'll run one soonish [22:45] StevenK: does the autosync pick up packages from contrib/non-free? [22:47] ajmitch: It can, not in the same run [22:59] TheMuso: when you have a chance, I would like to talk with you about the brltty package's init script === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === chuck_ is now known as zul [23:21] which channel could I ask for udev and eventX ? === yofel_ is now known as yofel [23:33] does ubuntu accepts 3.0 (quilt) source package uploads? [23:34] bdrung_: No(t yet) [23:34] RAOF: how long do we need to wait? will it be ready for lucid? [23:35] probably until the next LP rollout, ask wgrant about it [23:35] Launchpad hasn't quite grown support for the new source package formats, but wgrant (IIRC) is working on it. My remembarance is that it should be ready soonish, before Lucid certainly. [23:35] thanks. [23:38] bdrung_, ajmitch, RAOF: It should be supported on 2009-12-05 (LP 3.1.11) [23:39] wgrant: thx [23:41] NCommander: ping [23:41] rgreening, pong? [23:41] you available to come to vinoy [23:41] we have an armel [23:42] need som advice/help :) [23:42] me and Riddell [23:42] rgreening, I saw it earlier, didn't I? [23:42] dunno [23:42] but can you pop over [23:42] NCommander: nope, its a different one [23:45] rgreening, neat, I'll be there as son as I'm done here [23:46] k [23:51] Riddell: sorry, had a session right now which I draft [23:54] why/where/how is the kernel inserting mount options that mount(2) isnt sending it? (according to both behaviour, and /proc/mounts) [23:54] well /proc/mounts shows mount options that were not provided by mount(). what is the cause of this? [23:54] relatime is the option that's showing up on all my mounts that i want to get rid of [23:54] and, it didnt do this until i upgraded to 9.10 [23:54] but i'm also using kernel .32rc which might have something to do with it [23:56] anyone? [23:57] the he strictatime works for some mount commands, but mount.nfs doesnt pass it to mount() .. i could write a call to do it, but why the relatime is in there in the first place boggles me. [23:59] hmm?