maxb | Given 2.4 hasn't been removed from lucid yet, I was assuming 2.5 was not yet in jeopardy | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
ajmitch | I expect it'll be dropped to universe at least | 00:02 |
ajmitch | installing python-all-dev doesn't grab python2.5-dev now, I believe | 00:03 |
ajmitch | which bit me when trying to build something | 00:03 |
maxb | Yup | 00:03 |
ajmitch | the intent has been to only have 2.6 supported, which doesn't exclude having 2.5 in universe | 00:04 |
maxb | Given Launchpad has had to maintain a PPA re-adding Python 2.4 support to jaunty/karmic packages, a PPA re-adding Python 2.5 support to lucid packages doesn't seem implausible as a stopgap measure | 00:05 |
ajmitch | it does get a little annoying for 3rd parties like LP | 00:06 |
maxb | I think it's good. Given how non-trivial 2.4->2.5 turned out to be, I dread to think what a pain a direct 2.4->2.6 upgrade would be like on a large codebase | 00:07 |
* ajmitch is glad that the latest release of zope 2 supports python 2.6 | 00:08 | |
maxb | Although I'm not a fan of Ubuntu's forced progress in all areas. Retrospectively, I think hal is being abandoned too soon | 00:09 |
maxb | devkit-power just isn't there yet | 00:09 |
ScottK | Most of the work for Python 2.6 in Debian is done. | 00:09 |
maxb | Ah? What keeps them from switching default python right now? | 00:10 |
ajmitch | ScottK: I've seen that, and it's good to see | 00:10 |
ScottK | maxb: Maintainer won't upload it to unstable. | 00:11 |
RoAkSoAx | ScottK, u here at UDS already? | 00:11 |
maxb | Does the maintainer have a reasonable rationale for that? | 00:11 |
ScottK | RoAkSoAx: Still in the air. | 00:11 |
RoAkSoAx | ScottK, cool... I had not internet while flying :( | 00:12 |
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EzraR | there is no harm droping a depend on gnome volume manager right? | 00:54 |
ScottK | EzraR: Why do you say that? | 00:56 |
EzraR | ScottK: I am going to drop it from a package to fix a bug report | 01:01 |
ScottK | EzraR: What bug? | 01:01 |
EzraR | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brdesktop-flavours/+bug/412643 | 01:02 |
ubottu | Launchpad bug 412643 in brdesktop-flavours "Should not depend on, recommend or suggest gnome-volume-manager" [Wishlist,In progress] | 01:02 |
EzraR | this package doesnt actually install anything, its just a list of recommends | 01:03 |
EzraR | so really i would be droping it from the recommends not depends | 01:04 |
ScottK | EzraR: Seems reasonable. | 01:05 |
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nigel_nb | hi, i'm looking for a little help about man pages | 04:38 |
nigel_nb | can someone help me figure out how they are made? | 04:38 |
micahg | nigel_nb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles#Man%20Pages | 04:41 |
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Laney | good morning | 09:26 |
slytherin | Laney: good morning | 09:26 |
directhex | it's a Laney! and a slytherin! | 09:34 |
Laney | rawr | 09:34 |
LucidFox | Evolution must be the most un-GNOME-like application shipped by default in Ubuntu. | 10:00 |
slytherin | is auto import of sources from Debian stopped currently? | 10:00 |
LucidFox | It feels like a KDE application that uses GTK for some reason. | 10:00 |
Laney | slytherin: It's only semi-automatic - guess the required bodies are at UDS | 10:01 |
Laney | my manual syncs from early last week still haven't been done either | 10:01 |
slytherin | Laney: I know it is semi automatic but I was expecting that it should have been run at least once since lucid opened for development. | 10:01 |
Laney | there were problems with the code crashing on v3 source packages | 10:01 |
slytherin | hmm | 10:08 |
directhex | i also have noticed a lack of syncitude | 10:08 |
directhex | i blame bears | 10:08 |
slytherin | LucidFox: Evolution is one of the most unstable software I have ever used. The only reason it is in default install is probably because of exchange support. Ironically even that is not stable. | 10:09 |
LucidFox | Sad thing is, most email clients seem to focus on being yet another Outlook/Outlook Express clone instead of usability. | 10:10 |
LucidFox | Thunderbird is the least cluttered one I've seen. | 10:10 |
LucidFox | And even it is quite heavy. | 10:10 |
slytherin | I hope anjal can replace evolution soon. | 10:10 |
LucidFox | Hmm, never heard of it, let's give it a try | 10:11 |
LucidFox | Ugh, ugly. | 10:12 |
LucidFox | Still, this is a step in the right direction. | 10:13 |
slytherin | LucidFox: Expected. It is quite new. Not even an year old. | 10:13 |
LucidFox | Ideally I'd like something like Google Chrome, but for mail. | 10:13 |
LucidFox | Instead of a cluttered Outlook-like UI that pops up a wizard on first start and wastes more space on combo boxes and buttons than on message content. :) | 10:14 |
\sh | I would like to see a client which can deal with this *censored* exchange crap | 10:14 |
siretart` | given that evolution's development is mostly closed, with programmers sitting in I think pakistan or india, I share your surprise that we don't have a better alternative... | 10:14 |
achadwick | I quite like the idea of http://sup.rubyforge.org up to a point. Give it a saner, GUIish way of displaying email and a decent backend, and it might be a winner. Course then it wouldn't be sup, but hey... | 10:14 |
\sh | siretart, claws-mail for standard mail stuff works...it's a mutt with GUI ;) | 10:14 |
slytherin | siretart`: Any idea where in India? If it is not far from my place may be I will pay them a visit. :-P | 10:15 |
siretart` | \sh: perhaps a good choice for xubuntu, but certainly not for a gnome desktop | 10:15 |
\sh | siretart, oh well...I'm a pragmatic guy | 10:16 |
siretart` | \sh: btw, may I take your latest mail to fai-devel that you are unsure if we really need to fall back to unionfs-fuse? | 10:17 |
\sh | siretart, in the past we had problems with aufs right? and waldemar is also not sure if the latest aufs in karmic kernel helps us... | 10:17 |
\sh | eventually I can check this out later this week.. | 10:18 |
siretart` | yes, last time I looked at fai the problem was to totally borked aufs in jaunty's kernel | 10:18 |
siretart` | I really do hope that karmic's aufs works much better on nfs, but appaerently nobody hast tested that yet | 10:19 |
siretart` | slytherin: look for a local Novel/Suse subsidiary | 10:25 |
slytherin | hmm | 10:25 |
LucidFox | \sh> claws-mail has a horrible icon theme, from the olden days of GNOME. | 10:26 |
siretart` | if you are really interested, I can ask a new collegue here at work (he is affiliated with suse..) | 10:26 |
LucidFox | And it's still cluttered and standing out in GNOME. | 10:27 |
* siretart` uses and loves gnus. it will even be promoted to main for lucid :-) | 10:27 | |
\sh | LucidFox, really, I don't care about icons ;) | 10:29 |
LucidFox | And text-based clients won't do either. It may not do me favor among kewl hackerz, but I'm a GUI person. | 10:29 |
directhex | i agree | 10:30 |
LucidFox | And I want a cohesive desktop based on the GNOME philosophy. | 10:30 |
LucidFox | I'd like to see Chromium installed by default, for example. | 10:30 |
directhex | gnome philosophy means epiphany ;) | 10:31 |
LucidFox | Well, just because it's the official browser in GNOME doesn't make it the best. | 10:32 |
LucidFox | Same with empathy - I still don't know what they were smoking to put it in the default installation. | 10:32 |
\sh | siretart, do you have a good default config for gnus? | 10:33 |
directhex | LucidFox, perhaps it relates to the unspoken problems with pidgin's upstream development? | 10:34 |
LucidFox | That beong | 10:34 |
LucidFox | * That being? | 10:34 |
directhex | can't tell you. look up "unspoken" in the dictionary ;) | 10:35 |
LucidFox | "The Ubuntu community has contributed 16666 ideas" | 10:37 |
LucidFox | Spooky. | 10:37 |
LucidFox | 11-Jun-2008 | 10:46 |
LucidFox | After some complaining and whining from a few people about how long it's taking, we've finally released a new Linux version: 2.8.6, enjoy. | 10:46 |
LucidFox | ^ from xchat.org. | 10:46 |
siretart` | \sh: default config? what's that? :-) | 11:05 |
\sh | siretart, btw...the replacement for gnus/mail today is named eclipsemail (http://eclipsemail.org/wiki/index.php/Eclipsemail_User_Guide) | 11:05 |
\sh | oh pop3 only...crap ;) | 11:05 |
siretart` | err, in what ways can that be a replacement? | 11:06 |
\sh | siretart, for people not knowing emacs ;) but eclipse | 11:06 |
siretart` | if there was only a proper text editor in eclipse.. oh well. | 11:07 |
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siretart` | btw, how is eclipse doing these days in ubuntu? are we still shipping obsolete/outdated packages that don't work with current 3rd party extensions? | 11:07 |
\sh | siretart, well, I do like the pydev stuff from eclipse, in combination with http://eclipse-tools.sourceforge.net/shortcuts.html rocks | 11:08 |
\sh | siretart, eclipse in karmic works like a charm... | 11:08 |
\sh | even with 3rd party stuff | 11:08 |
siretart` | oh, indeed. seems we now ship 3.5.1. cool | 11:10 |
siretart` | kudos to bdrung, then! :-) | 11:11 |
noneNN | will kernel 2.6.32 be on karmic repos? | 11:17 |
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directhex | noneNN, no. karmic is a stable release, no invasive changes go in post-release | 11:20 |
slytherin | noneNN: No. | 11:21 |
directhex | i still don't "get" eclipse :( | 11:21 |
slytherin | directhex: keep trying, it i not that hard. :-) | 11:26 |
directhex | slytherin, i've occasionally poked it since i was an undergrad, and never thought more than "ick" | 11:27 |
slytherin | directhex: probably because you never worked full time on a java based app. | 11:28 |
directhex | true | 11:29 |
LucidFox | slytherin> Ehehehe | 11:30 |
LucidFox | I can relate tot hat. | 11:30 |
LucidFox | I use Eclipse for Java extensively, but I couldn't get used to it for anything else. | 11:31 |
\sh | eclipse + pydev + pybzr == my favorite UI for python development (+ web ext. for html / css /javascript stuff) | 11:33 |
\sh | and apache directory studio plugin for ldap stuff... | 11:34 |
lfaraone | Can I build a package with CDBS that uses multiple setup.py files? If so, how? | 13:12 |
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ngirard | Hi all. Using equivs-build I've built & installed a dummy package whose "provides" are beeing ignored by apt-get. Specifically, my texlive-dummy does provide, among others, tex-common ; and yet apt-get install jadetex requires libosp5 openjade1.3 tex-common tipa to be installed... any thoughts ? | 13:42 |
ripps | ngirard: you need to setup Conflicts and Replaces | 14:04 |
ripps | http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control | 14:06 |
ngirard | Hi ripps. Thanks for your answer | 14:12 |
ngirard | ripps: Here's the contents of texlive-dummy.txt : http://pastebin.com/d2f5cc73a . I've used it to build such texlive-dummy package: equivs-build texlive-dummy.txt ; sudo dpkg -i texlive-dummy_1.5_all.deb | 14:19 |
ngirard | It still doesn't work as expected. | 14:19 |
ngirard | sudo apt-get install tipa | 14:20 |
ngirard | suggests to *remove* my texlive-dummy in order to install tex-common texlive-base texlive-base-bin and so on... | 14:20 |
ripps | I don't have any experience with a control that big and complicated, wait around until a MOTU can help | 14:22 |
ngirard | ripps: sure. Thanks anyway ! | 14:23 |
alkisg | I have a project in a bzr branch in launchpad. I want to rearrange it a lot - rename a lot of files and dirs, add many new ones... I don't mind losing the history, so is it possible to clear the whole branch and start over? | 14:38 |
tsimpson | you can probably just delete the branch and push to it again | 14:40 |
alkisg | Thank you tsimpson :) | 14:41 |
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bddebian | Heya gang | 15:22 |
\sh | hoi bddebian | 15:27 |
bddebian | Hi \sh | 15:27 |
\sh | bddebian, not in dallas @ uds? | 15:27 |
geser | ngirard: tipa has a versioned dependency on tex-common and Provides don't work with versioned dependencies | 15:28 |
geser | Hi bddebian, \sh | 15:28 |
\sh | hey geser | 15:28 |
bddebian | Heya geser | 15:31 |
ngirard | Hi geser. Thanks for you answer. What would you advice me then ? | 15:31 |
geser | ngirard: what are you trying to achieve? | 16:00 |
ngirard | geser: sorry for beeing unclear. For all tex-related stuff I need, I've installed a fresh TeXlive 2009 manually. I want to prevent apt-get to install the official tex-related packages | 16:02 |
geser | ah, you could try to build an empty package named "tex-common" with a large version (so it fullfills the dependencies but don't get replaced with a real tex-common package on next upgrade). But I don't know if there is a script which helps you doing it | 16:05 |
geser | it's like a meta-pacakge but with empty Depends | 16:05 |
ngirard | geser: what if I added large versions to the contents of my texlive-dummy control file ? Would it work ? | 16:10 |
ngirard | to every package provided by texlive-dummy, meaning | 16:11 |
geser | ngirard: Provides has only package names, no version. if you make your texlive-dummy version e.g. 2009, you still can only provide an unversioned texlive-common which doesn't fullfill the requirement of tex-common >= 1.18 (or similar) | 16:12 |
geser | you would need to "rename" your texlive-dummy to tex-common | 16:12 |
ngirard | geser: damn. | 16:13 |
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ngirard | geser: it'll take ages to generate empty, versioned packages corresponding to all texlive-related packages | 16:14 |
geser | ngirard: you need only those which appear in versioned dependencies, the others can be only provided | 16:15 |
ngirard | geser: insightful ! Yeah, right ! | 16:16 |
geser | ngirard: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-virtual if you want to read how Provides work | 16:16 |
serialorder | i don't know much yet so this might be a totally stupid idea, if it is i apologize and would like to know, but could you add it so that you could select your local version with update-alternatives? | 16:17 |
ngirard | geser: okay, i'll go for your solution. Thanks very much for your assistance ! | 16:18 |
geser | you can use update-alternatives to select which implementation should be the default for a command, but that won't work on package versions (they are in dpkg's database) | 16:19 |
geser | ngirard: I hope it works | 16:19 |
ngirard | geser: it worked... at least for the very tipa package I told you about. Now, i'm afraid i'd like to ask you another question: sudo apt-get build-dep gnucash libaqbanking --> among the dependancies there also seems to be versioned dependancies of some tex-related packaged. My question is: How could I track these dependancies ? | 16:28 |
ngirard | geser: here's the output: http://pastebin.com/d234ad565 | 16:28 |
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geser | ngirard: I assume the tex packages are only recommended on some build-dependencies, I get no tex packages listed with disabled recommends (I've tested it on lucid but karmic and lucid shouldn't diverged much yet) | 16:34 |
ngirard | geser: err... i'm not sure i understood, but anyway, I'm considering the following workaround: in bash or python, automate the creation & installation of dummy tex-related packages having a very high version. The only problem is, I may have problems when the official texlive 2009 packaged will be out and i want to switch to them | 16:40 |
ngirard | the official texlive 2009 packaged -> packages ^ | 16:40 |
geser | ngirard: what you break, you'll have to fix yourself :) you could try using a high but unique version number (e.g. 9999) for which you could grep later the output of dpkg -l to find any of your dummy packages | 16:43 |
ngirard | geser: good idea ! Let's go with it. Thanks again for your help ! | 16:45 |
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maxb | Hmm. I'm trying to do my first UDD merge, and I got huge amounts of conflicts. So I read james_w's email and did it again with "bzr merge-package" which did lots of voodoo. But I still get unexpected conflicts within the debian/ dir | 18:07 |
maxb | I am trying to merge lp:debian/sid/subversion into lp:ubuntu/lucid/subversion | 18:08 |
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randomaction | i think it's ok if you can resolve them | 18:23 |
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maxb | eww. The history of this branch is entirely screwed up | 18:29 |
maxb | bzr merge-package is attempting to merge the changes from several already-merged debian versions | 18:29 |
randomaction | oh, is it a problem with bzr-merge-package? | 18:35 |
randomaction | I never used it, only MoM | 18:36 |
maxb | randomaction: It turns out that this package's package branches are a bit screwed up | 18:47 |
maxb | There's a debian revision bound to the history of the ubuntu package branch which isn't present in the debian package branch. This is confusing things rather significantly | 18:47 |
randomaction | these branches seem to have no common revisions | 18:53 |
m4rtin | once a patch has been submitted to the main-sponsors list, how long does it usually take for review? | 18:56 |
randomaction | maxb: or is it because it was merged from experimental? | 19:01 |
fcuk112 | python-all-dev; does anyone know the diff between 9.04 and 9.10 when installing this package? | 19:01 |
RainCT | fcuk112: not much, that package is empty | 19:02 |
RainCT | it justs depends on all -dev packages for the different python versions | 19:02 |
fcuk112 | but do you know if the depencies have changed? | 19:03 |
fcuk112 | i am trying to upgrade libavg; and somehow it now fails through pbuilder. | 19:04 |
maxb | randomaction: Oh! Yes! And yuck, that means the UDD tools are broken in this case | 19:06 |
randomaction | because experimental and sid usually don't overlap | 19:07 |
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rizwanhudda | hi ubuntu geeks | 20:07 |
rizwanhudda | i am new to ubuntu-motu , can some one suggest me where to start | 20:08 |
geser | m4rtin: it depends how busy the core-devs are, now with uds happening, I'd be patient till middle/end of next week | 20:08 |
rizwanhudda | hi gesser,m4rtin | 20:09 |
m4rtin | geser: thanks - not moaning, just no point looking for a response before there's likely to be one (first patch over-excitement ;)) | 20:12 |
maxb | randomaction: huh? Surely the primary purpose of experimental is as a feeder for packages that eventually show up in sid? | 20:17 |
randomaction | I mean, versions don't overlap. Last version of subversion in experimental was 1.6.1dfsg-1, followed by 1.6.3dfsg-1 in sid. | 20:20 |
randomaction | There's no migration like unstable -> testing. | 20:20 |
maxb | Right... there's no firm implied relationship *but* often there is a relationship since experimental is often-but-not-always a merge in the debian packager's vcs | 20:25 |
maxb | s/a merge/a branch that is merged into what later goes to sid/ | 20:25 |
maxb | And the problem here appears to be that after a merge-from-experimental, the auto-importer didn't write appropriate ancestry for the subsequent merge from unstable | 20:27 |
ajmitch | maxb: probably something you need to bug james_w about | 20:28 |
maxb | yeah, once I've figured it out enough to file a bug | 20:28 |
* maxb hugs bzr qlog | 20:28 | |
maxb | without which this would be an intractable problem :-) | 20:28 |
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maxb | Is there a word for a merge commit which has no changes and only exists to fix the ancestry? | 20:30 |
maxb | .oO( bzr ci -m "Tie ancestry from debian/sid on upstream import branch." ) | 20:31 |
randomaction | I wonder if source format 3.0 (git) would make life easier | 20:34 |
adama | http://www.geekologie.com/2009/11/15/cisco-bars.jpg | 20:39 |
ari-tczew | hello devs, I have a question | 20:41 |
ari-tczew | if Ubuntu's changes have been merged in Debian, should we sync package? | 20:42 |
av` | yes | 20:42 |
ari-tczew | but I see on merges.ubuntu.com comments "no need" or something | 20:42 |
StevenK | Probably means "no need to merge" | 20:43 |
ari-tczew | I think we should sync packages which are the same because it's easier for autosync in future | 20:43 |
RoAkSoAx | ari-tczew, because those changes that *are* in Ubuntu, and have been *merged* to Debian, there's no need to sync a package that already have the Ubuntu Changes | 20:43 |
StevenK | RoAkSoAx: Sure there is. | 20:43 |
RoAkSoAx | ari-tczew, however, some of those commnets might not be up to date | 20:44 |
ari-tczew | so, what's the conclusion? ignored these comments, or request a sync? | 20:44 |
StevenK | RoAkSoAx: There is always a win to sync a package, because this means Ubuntu will stay up to date if Debian changes the package while the autosyncer runs | 20:44 |
StevenK | ari-tczew: File a sync request | 20:44 |
ari-tczew | StevenK: thanks! | 20:45 |
geser | the comment could have been added late in the development cycle where it didn't make much sense to sync it at that time | 20:45 |
RoAkSoAx | stefanlsd, yes indeed. | 20:45 |
RoAkSoAx | yes and that's what I meant, that at the moment of the comment there was no need to sync it | 20:46 |
RoAkSoAx | stefanlsd, wrong nick sorry :P | 20:46 |
ari-tczew | +1 for: [21:44] <StevenK> RoAkSoAx: There is always a win to sync a package, because this means Ubuntu will stay up to date if Debian changes the package while the autosyncer runs | 20:47 |
RoAkSoAx | ari-tczew, right, but for example, you made a change in Ubuntu, i.e. apply a patch in Ubuntu and forward it to Debian, then Debian applies that patch, and releases a new package, then there's no need to merge/sync it at that moment, as geser said | 20:49 |
ari-tczew | yes, but if Debian will release a new package later, we need checking again | 20:56 |
ari-tczew | but if we will sync package now, later autosync can do it (get a new Debian's package) | 20:57 |
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geser | now is a good time to sync such packages, but not necessarily a few weeks before beta-freeze (as an example) where we don't get any benefit from it | 21:25 |
sebner | huhu geser :) | 21:27 |
ari-tczew | sebner: I have added a commen for cpufire-applet on merges.ubuntu.com "feel free to take it" as you wrote in mail | 21:31 |
ari-tczew | s/commen/comment | 21:31 |
serialorder | StevenK, is there a reason not to submit the viewport patch in rdesktop to debian? | 21:36 |
StevenK | serialorder: I don't see why not. Keep in mind I've not touched rdesktop in quite some time | 21:37 |
StevenK | I happen to be subscribed to an old bug | 21:37 |
serialorder | yeah I noticed, I think we have worked out a fixes for both the -y and the -K bugs | 21:38 |
StevenK | Do they keep everyone happy? :-) | 21:38 |
serialorder | so far | 21:38 |
geser | Hi sebner | 21:38 |
StevenK | serialorder: Then I think the next step is to file a Debian bug about this, or to engage with upstream directly | 21:39 |
serialorder | StevenK, I decided to work on that because rdesktop was in no condition to be deployed in a LTS release the way it was. | 21:39 |
serialorder | well i would like to do a little more testing first just to make sure but that would be the plan | 21:40 |
ari-tczew | StevenK: could you review this bug 389856, please? | 21:44 |
ubottu | Launchpad bug 389856 in cuetools "Please sync cuetools 1.3.1-7 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389856 | 21:44 |
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StevenK | ari-tczew: Looks good to me | 21:46 |
sebner | ari-tczew sure :) | 21:47 |
ari-tczew | right! but not looks good for nellery | 21:48 |
sebner | ari-tczew: would you mind add that comment to all of my merges? | 21:48 |
ari-tczew | so are you not interesting to merging packages changed by you? | 21:49 |
sebner | ari-tczew: I don't have really time for it now so it's better some contributor has a little bit of training ;D | 21:49 |
* ajmitch needs training & a few merges to do :) | 21:50 | |
ari-tczew | sebner: If I'll get a bit of time I can comment this | 21:50 |
ari-tczew | Alert! Devs, please do not closing sync's request if changes was merged in Debian! | 21:51 |
ari-tczew | We are not forwarding changes for Debian, after that were rejected | 21:52 |
Rocha | hi | 21:53 |
ari-tczew | this is passing with the idea | 21:53 |
Rocha | i'm having some trouble with launchpad | 21:53 |
Rocha | how can i branch two branches i have in a project registered in launchpad? | 21:54 |
ari-tczew | Rocha: #launchpad | 21:54 |
Rocha | ok | 21:54 |
ari-tczew | StevenK: thanks for ACK! | 21:56 |
sebner | ari-tczew: thx :) | 22:00 |
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ari-tczew | devs! please give a comment on merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html including bug#number of sync's request, it making work on merges more easier | 22:21 |
ari-tczew | sebner: you didn't change any package on main, so on universe I have marked all packages changes by you as "feel free to take it" | 22:27 |
sebner | ari-tczew: great. thanks! | 22:27 |
ari-tczew | sebner: working for MOTU it's my pleasure | 22:28 |
sebner | heh | 22:28 |
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master | lol | 23:23 |
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel |
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