/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/11/16/#ubuntu-motu.txt

maxbGiven 2.4 hasn't been removed from lucid yet, I was assuming 2.5 was not yet in jeopardy00:00
ajmitchI expect it'll be dropped to universe at least00:02
ajmitchinstalling python-all-dev doesn't grab python2.5-dev now, I believe00:03
ajmitchwhich bit me when trying to build something00:03
maxbYup00:03
ajmitchthe intent has been to only have 2.6 supported, which doesn't exclude having 2.5 in universe00:04
maxbGiven Launchpad has had to maintain a PPA re-adding Python 2.4 support to jaunty/karmic packages, a PPA re-adding Python 2.5 support to lucid packages doesn't seem implausible as a stopgap measure00:05
ajmitchit does get a little annoying for 3rd parties like LP00:06
maxbI think it's good. Given how non-trivial 2.4->2.5 turned out to be, I dread to think what a pain a direct 2.4->2.6 upgrade would be like on a large codebase00:07
* ajmitch is glad that the latest release of zope 2 supports python 2.600:08
maxbAlthough I'm not a fan of Ubuntu's forced progress in all areas. Retrospectively, I think hal is being abandoned too soon00:09
maxbdevkit-power just isn't there yet00:09
ScottKMost of the work for Python 2.6 in Debian is done.00:09
maxbAh? What keeps them from switching default python right now?00:10
ajmitchScottK: I've seen that, and it's good to see00:10
ScottKmaxb: Maintainer won't upload it to unstable.00:11
RoAkSoAxScottK, u here at UDS already?00:11
maxbDoes the maintainer have a reasonable rationale for that?00:11
ScottKRoAkSoAx: Still in the air.00:11
RoAkSoAxScottK, cool... I had not internet while flying :(00:12
=== corp186_ is now known as corp186
EzraRthere is no harm droping a depend on gnome volume manager right?00:54
ScottKEzraR: Why do you say that?00:56
EzraRScottK: I am going to drop it from a package to fix a bug report01:01
ScottKEzraR: What bug?01:01
EzraRhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brdesktop-flavours/+bug/41264301:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 412643 in brdesktop-flavours "Should not depend on, recommend or suggest gnome-volume-manager" [Wishlist,In progress]01:02
EzraRthis package doesnt actually install anything, its just a list of recommends01:03
EzraRso really i would be droping it from the recommends not depends01:04
ScottKEzraR: Seems reasonable.01:05
=== mike is now known as Guest64153
=== mike is now known as Guest79287
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
nigel_nbhi, i'm looking for a little help about man pages04:38
nigel_nbcan someone help me figure out how they are made?04:38
micahgnigel_nb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles#Man%20Pages04:41
=== _ruben_ is now known as _ruben
=== SEJeff_ is now known as SEJeff_home
=== _m4rtin is now known as m4rtin
=== \sh is now known as shermann
=== shermann is now known as \sh
Laneygood morning09:26
slytherinLaney: good morning09:26
directhexit's a Laney! and a slytherin!09:34
Laneyrawr09:34
LucidFoxEvolution must be the most un-GNOME-like application shipped by default in Ubuntu.10:00
slytherinis auto import of sources from Debian stopped currently?10:00
LucidFoxIt feels like a KDE application that uses GTK for some reason.10:00
Laneyslytherin: It's only semi-automatic - guess the required bodies are at UDS10:01
Laneymy manual syncs from early last week still haven't been done either10:01
slytherinLaney: I know it is semi automatic but I was expecting that it should have been run at least once since lucid opened for development.10:01
Laneythere were problems with the code crashing on v3 source packages10:01
slytherinhmm10:08
directhexi also have noticed a lack of syncitude10:08
directhexi blame bears10:08
slytherinLucidFox: Evolution is one of the most unstable software I have ever used. The only reason it is in default install is probably because of exchange support. Ironically even that is not stable.10:09
LucidFoxSad thing is, most email clients seem to focus on being yet another Outlook/Outlook Express clone instead of usability.10:10
LucidFoxThunderbird is the least cluttered one I've seen.10:10
LucidFoxAnd even it is quite heavy.10:10
slytherinI hope anjal can replace evolution soon.10:10
LucidFoxHmm, never heard of it, let's give it a try10:11
LucidFoxUgh, ugly.10:12
LucidFoxStill, this is a step in the right direction.10:13
slytherinLucidFox: Expected. It is quite new. Not even an year old.10:13
LucidFoxIdeally I'd like something like Google Chrome, but for mail.10:13
LucidFoxInstead of a cluttered Outlook-like UI that pops up a wizard on first start and wastes more space on combo boxes and buttons than on message content. :)10:14
\shI would like to see a client which can deal with this *censored* exchange crap10:14
siretart`given that evolution's development is mostly closed, with programmers sitting in I think pakistan or india, I share your surprise that we don't have a better alternative...10:14
achadwickI quite like the idea of http://sup.rubyforge.org up to a point. Give it a saner, GUIish way of displaying email and a decent backend, and it might be a winner. Course then it wouldn't be sup, but hey...10:14
\shsiretart, claws-mail for standard mail stuff works...it's a mutt with GUI ;)10:14
slytherinsiretart`: Any idea where in India? If it is not far from my place may be I will pay them a visit. :-P10:15
siretart`\sh: perhaps a good choice for xubuntu, but certainly not for a gnome desktop10:15
\shsiretart, oh well...I'm a pragmatic guy10:16
siretart`\sh: btw, may I take your latest mail to fai-devel that you are unsure if we really need to fall back to unionfs-fuse?10:17
\shsiretart, in the past we had problems with aufs right? and waldemar is also not sure if the latest aufs in karmic kernel helps us...10:17
\sheventually I can check this out later this week..10:18
siretart`yes, last time I looked at fai the problem was to totally borked aufs in jaunty's kernel10:18
siretart`I really do hope that karmic's aufs works much better on nfs, but appaerently nobody hast tested that yet10:19
siretart`slytherin: look for a local Novel/Suse subsidiary10:25
slytherinhmm10:25
LucidFox\sh> claws-mail has a horrible icon theme, from the olden days of GNOME.10:26
siretart`if you are really interested, I can ask a new collegue here at work (he is affiliated with suse..)10:26
LucidFoxAnd it's still cluttered and standing out in GNOME.10:27
* siretart` uses and loves gnus. it will even be promoted to main for lucid :-)10:27
\shLucidFox, really, I don't care about icons ;)10:29
LucidFoxAnd text-based clients won't do either. It may not do me favor among kewl hackerz, but I'm a GUI person.10:29
directhexi agree10:30
LucidFoxAnd I want a cohesive desktop based on the GNOME philosophy.10:30
LucidFoxI'd like to see Chromium installed by default, for example.10:30
directhexgnome philosophy means epiphany ;)10:31
LucidFoxWell, just because it's the official browser in GNOME doesn't make it the best.10:32
LucidFoxSame with empathy - I still don't know what they were smoking to put it in the default installation.10:32
\shsiretart, do you have a good default config for gnus?10:33
directhexLucidFox, perhaps it relates to the unspoken problems with pidgin's upstream development?10:34
LucidFoxThat beong10:34
LucidFox* That being?10:34
directhexcan't tell you. look up "unspoken" in the dictionary ;)10:35
LucidFox"The Ubuntu community has contributed 16666 ideas"10:37
LucidFoxSpooky.10:37
LucidFox 11-Jun-200810:46
LucidFoxAfter some complaining and whining from a few people about how long it's taking, we've finally released a new Linux version: 2.8.6, enjoy.10:46
LucidFox^ from xchat.org.10:46
siretart`\sh: default config? what's that? :-)11:05
\shsiretart, btw...the replacement for gnus/mail today is named eclipsemail (http://eclipsemail.org/wiki/index.php/Eclipsemail_User_Guide)11:05
\shoh pop3 only...crap ;)11:05
siretart`err, in what ways can that be a replacement?11:06
\shsiretart, for people not knowing emacs ;) but eclipse11:06
siretart`if there was only a proper text editor in eclipse.. oh well.11:07
=== asac_ is now known as asac
siretart`btw, how is eclipse doing these days in ubuntu? are we still shipping obsolete/outdated packages that don't work with current 3rd party extensions?11:07
\shsiretart, well, I do like the pydev stuff from eclipse, in combination with http://eclipse-tools.sourceforge.net/shortcuts.html rocks11:08
\shsiretart, eclipse in karmic works like a charm...11:08
\sheven with 3rd party stuff11:08
siretart`oh, indeed. seems we now ship 3.5.1. cool11:10
siretart`kudos to bdrung, then! :-)11:11
noneNNwill kernel 2.6.32 be on karmic repos?11:17
=== Blizzerand_ is now known as Blizzerand
directhexnoneNN, no. karmic is a stable release, no invasive changes go in post-release11:20
slytherinnoneNN: No.11:21
directhexi still don't "get" eclipse :(11:21
slytherindirecthex: keep trying, it i not that hard. :-)11:26
directhexslytherin, i've occasionally poked it since i was an undergrad, and never thought more than "ick"11:27
slytherindirecthex: probably because you never worked full time on a java based app.11:28
directhextrue11:29
LucidFoxslytherin> Ehehehe11:30
LucidFoxI can relate tot hat.11:30
LucidFoxI use Eclipse for Java extensively, but I couldn't get used to it for anything else.11:31
\sheclipse + pydev + pybzr == my favorite UI for python development (+ web ext. for html / css /javascript stuff)11:33
\shand apache directory studio plugin for ldap stuff...11:34
lfaraoneCan I build a package with CDBS that uses multiple setup.py files? If so, how?13:12
=== _stink__ is now known as _stink_
ngirardHi all. Using equivs-build I've built & installed a dummy package whose "provides" are beeing ignored by apt-get. Specifically, my texlive-dummy does provide, among others, tex-common ; and yet  apt-get install jadetex requires libosp5 openjade1.3 tex-common tipa to be installed... any thoughts ?13:42
rippsngirard: you need to setup Conflicts and Replaces14:04
rippshttp://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control14:06
ngirardHi ripps. Thanks for your answer14:12
ngirardripps: Here's the contents of texlive-dummy.txt : http://pastebin.com/d2f5cc73a . I've used it to build such texlive-dummy package: equivs-build texlive-dummy.txt ;  sudo dpkg -i texlive-dummy_1.5_all.deb14:19
ngirardIt still doesn't work as expected.14:19
ngirardsudo apt-get install tipa14:20
ngirardsuggests to *remove* my texlive-dummy in order to install tex-common texlive-base texlive-base-bin and so on...14:20
rippsI don't have any experience with a control that big and complicated, wait around until a MOTU can help14:22
ngirardripps: sure. Thanks anyway !14:23
alkisgI have a project in a bzr branch in launchpad. I want to rearrange it a lot - rename a lot of files and dirs, add many new ones... I don't mind losing the history, so is it possible to clear the whole branch and start over?14:38
tsimpsonyou can probably just delete the branch and push to it again14:40
alkisgThank you tsimpson :)14:41
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
=== RoAk is now known as RoAkSoAx
bddebianHeya gang15:22
\shhoi bddebian15:27
bddebianHi \sh15:27
\shbddebian, not in dallas @ uds?15:27
geserngirard: tipa has a versioned dependency on tex-common and Provides don't work with versioned dependencies15:28
geserHi bddebian, \sh15:28
\shhey geser15:28
bddebianHeya geser15:31
ngirardHi geser. Thanks for you answer. What would you advice me then ?15:31
geserngirard: what are you trying to achieve?16:00
ngirardgeser: sorry for beeing unclear. For all tex-related stuff I need, I've installed a fresh TeXlive 2009 manually. I want to prevent apt-get to install the official tex-related packages16:02
geserah, you could try to build an empty package named "tex-common" with a large version (so it fullfills the dependencies but don't get replaced with a real tex-common package on next upgrade). But I don't know if there is a script which helps you doing it16:05
geserit's like a meta-pacakge but with empty Depends16:05
ngirardgeser: what if I added large versions to the contents of my texlive-dummy control file ? Would it work ?16:10
ngirardto every package provided by texlive-dummy, meaning16:11
geserngirard: Provides has only package names, no version. if you make your texlive-dummy version e.g. 2009, you still can only provide an unversioned texlive-common which doesn't fullfill the requirement of tex-common >= 1.18 (or similar)16:12
geseryou would need to "rename" your texlive-dummy to tex-common16:12
ngirardgeser: damn.16:13
=== dyfet` is now known as dyfet
ngirardgeser: it'll take ages to generate empty, versioned packages corresponding to all texlive-related packages16:14
geserngirard: you need only those which appear in versioned dependencies, the others can be only provided16:15
ngirardgeser: insightful ! Yeah, right !16:16
geserngirard: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-virtual if you want to read how Provides work16:16
serialorderi don't know much yet so this might be a totally stupid idea, if it is i apologize and would like to know, but could you add it so that you could select your local version with update-alternatives?16:17
ngirardgeser: okay, i'll go for your solution. Thanks very much for your assistance !16:18
geseryou can use update-alternatives to select which implementation should be the default for a command, but that won't work on package versions (they are in dpkg's database)16:19
geserngirard: I hope it works16:19
ngirardgeser: it worked... at least for the very tipa package I told you about. Now, i'm afraid i'd like to ask you another question: sudo apt-get build-dep gnucash libaqbanking --> among the dependancies there also seems to be versioned dependancies of some tex-related packaged. My question is: How could I track these dependancies ?16:28
ngirardgeser: here's the output: http://pastebin.com/d234ad56516:28
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
geserngirard: I assume the tex packages are only recommended on some build-dependencies, I get no tex packages listed with disabled recommends (I've tested it on lucid but karmic and lucid shouldn't diverged much yet)16:34
ngirardgeser: err... i'm not sure i understood, but anyway, I'm considering the following workaround: in bash or python, automate the creation & installation of dummy tex-related packages having a very high version. The only problem is, I may have problems when the official texlive 2009 packaged will be out and i want to switch to them16:40
ngirardthe official texlive 2009 packaged -> packages ^16:40
geserngirard: what you break, you'll have to fix yourself :) you could try using a high but unique version number (e.g. 9999) for which you could grep later the output of dpkg -l to find any of your dummy packages16:43
ngirardgeser: good idea ! Let's go with it. Thanks again for your help !16:45
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
=== RainCT_ is now known as RainCT
maxbHmm. I'm trying to do my first UDD merge, and I got huge amounts of conflicts. So I read james_w's email and did it again with "bzr merge-package" which did lots of voodoo. But I still get unexpected conflicts within the debian/ dir18:07
maxbI am trying to merge lp:debian/sid/subversion into lp:ubuntu/lucid/subversion18:08
=== nxvl_ is now known as nxvl
randomactioni think it's ok if you can resolve them18:23
=== `Alessio` is now known as quadrispro
maxbeww. The history of this branch is entirely screwed up18:29
maxbbzr merge-package is attempting to merge the changes from several already-merged debian versions18:29
randomactionoh, is it a problem with bzr-merge-package?18:35
randomactionI never used it, only MoM18:36
maxbrandomaction: It turns out that this package's package branches are a bit screwed up18:47
maxbThere's a debian revision bound to the history of the ubuntu package branch which isn't present in the debian package branch. This is confusing things rather significantly18:47
randomactionthese branches seem to have no common revisions18:53
m4rtinonce a patch has been submitted to the main-sponsors list, how long does it usually take for review?18:56
randomactionmaxb: or is it because it was merged from experimental?19:01
fcuk112python-all-dev; does anyone know the diff between 9.04 and 9.10 when installing this package?19:01
RainCTfcuk112: not much, that package is empty19:02
RainCTit justs depends on all -dev packages for the different python versions19:02
fcuk112but do you know if the depencies have changed?19:03
fcuk112i am trying to upgrade libavg; and somehow it now fails through pbuilder.19:04
maxbrandomaction: Oh! Yes! And yuck, that means the UDD tools are broken in this case19:06
randomactionbecause experimental and sid usually don't overlap19:07
=== YDdraigGoch is now known as Richie
=== aaaa is now known as RoAkSoAx
rizwanhuddahi ubuntu geeks20:07
rizwanhuddai am new to ubuntu-motu , can some one suggest me where to start20:08
geserm4rtin: it depends how busy the core-devs are, now with uds happening, I'd be patient till middle/end of next week20:08
rizwanhuddahi gesser,m4rtin20:09
m4rtingeser: thanks - not moaning, just no point looking for a response before there's likely to be one (first patch over-excitement ;))20:12
maxbrandomaction: huh? Surely the primary purpose of experimental is as a feeder for packages that eventually show up in sid?20:17
randomactionI mean, versions don't overlap. Last version of subversion in experimental was 1.6.1dfsg-1, followed by 1.6.3dfsg-1 in sid.20:20
randomactionThere's no migration like unstable -> testing.20:20
maxbRight... there's no firm implied relationship *but* often there is a relationship since experimental is often-but-not-always a merge in the debian packager's vcs20:25
maxbs/a merge/a branch that is merged into what later goes to sid/20:25
maxbAnd the problem here appears to be that after a merge-from-experimental, the auto-importer didn't write appropriate ancestry for the subsequent merge from unstable20:27
ajmitchmaxb: probably something you need to bug james_w about20:28
maxbyeah, once I've figured it out enough to file a bug20:28
* maxb hugs bzr qlog20:28
maxbwithout which this would be an intractable problem :-)20:28
=== eakron_ is now known as eakron
maxbIs there a word for a merge commit which has no changes and only exists to fix the ancestry?20:30
maxb.oO( bzr ci -m "Tie ancestry from debian/sid on upstream import branch." )20:31
randomactionI wonder if source format 3.0 (git) would make life easier20:34
adamahttp://www.geekologie.com/2009/11/15/cisco-bars.jpg20:39
ari-tczewhello devs, I have a question20:41
ari-tczewif Ubuntu's changes have been merged in Debian, should we sync package?20:42
av`yes20:42
ari-tczewbut I see on merges.ubuntu.com comments "no need" or something20:42
StevenKProbably means "no need to merge"20:43
ari-tczewI think we should sync packages which are the same because it's easier for autosync in future20:43
RoAkSoAxari-tczew, because those changes that *are* in Ubuntu, and have been *merged* to Debian, there's no need to sync a package that already have the Ubuntu Changes20:43
StevenKRoAkSoAx: Sure there is.20:43
RoAkSoAxari-tczew, however, some of those commnets might not be up to date20:44
ari-tczewso, what's the conclusion? ignored these comments, or request a sync?20:44
StevenKRoAkSoAx: There is always a win to sync a package, because this means Ubuntu will stay up to date if Debian changes the package while the autosyncer runs20:44
StevenKari-tczew: File a sync request20:44
ari-tczewStevenK: thanks!20:45
geserthe comment could have been added late in the development cycle where it didn't make much sense to sync it at that time20:45
RoAkSoAxstefanlsd, yes indeed.20:45
RoAkSoAxyes and that's what I meant, that at the moment of the comment there was no need to sync it20:46
RoAkSoAxstefanlsd, wrong nick sorry :P20:46
ari-tczew+1 for: [21:44] <StevenK> RoAkSoAx: There is always a win to sync a package, because this means Ubuntu will stay up to date if Debian changes the package while the autosyncer runs20:47
RoAkSoAxari-tczew, right, but for example, you made a change in Ubuntu, i.e. apply a patch in Ubuntu and forward it to Debian, then Debian applies that patch, and releases a new package, then there's no need to merge/sync it at that moment, as geser said20:49
ari-tczewyes, but if Debian will release a new package later, we need checking again20:56
ari-tczewbut if we will sync package now, later autosync can do it (get  a new Debian's package)20:57
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
gesernow is a good time to sync such packages, but not necessarily a few weeks before beta-freeze (as an example) where we don't get any benefit from it21:25
sebnerhuhu geser :)21:27
ari-tczewsebner: I have added a commen for cpufire-applet on merges.ubuntu.com "feel free to take it" as you wrote in mail21:31
ari-tczews/commen/comment21:31
serialorderStevenK, is there a reason not to submit the viewport patch in rdesktop to debian?21:36
StevenKserialorder: I don't see why not. Keep in mind I've not touched rdesktop in quite some time21:37
StevenKI happen to be subscribed to an old bug21:37
serialorderyeah I noticed, I think we have worked out a fixes for both the -y and the -K bugs21:38
StevenKDo they keep everyone happy? :-)21:38
serialorderso far21:38
geserHi sebner21:38
StevenKserialorder: Then I think the next step is to file a Debian bug about this, or to engage with upstream directly21:39
serialorderStevenK, I decided to work on that because rdesktop was in no condition to be deployed in a LTS release the way it was.21:39
serialorderwell i would like to do a little more testing first just to make sure but that would be the plan21:40
ari-tczewStevenK: could you review this bug 389856, please?21:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 389856 in cuetools "Please sync cuetools 1.3.1-7 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/38985621:44
=== JontheEchidna is now known as Mr_Enchilada
StevenKari-tczew: Looks good to me21:46
sebner ari-tczew sure :)21:47
ari-tczewright! but not looks good for nellery21:48
sebnerari-tczew: would you mind add that comment to all of my merges?21:48
ari-tczewso are you not interesting to merging packages changed by you?21:49
sebnerari-tczew: I don't have really time for it now so it's better some contributor has a little bit of training ;D21:49
* ajmitch needs training & a few merges to do :)21:50
ari-tczewsebner: If I'll get a bit of time I can comment this21:50
ari-tczewAlert! Devs, please do not closing sync's request if changes was merged in Debian!21:51
ari-tczewWe are not forwarding changes for Debian, after that were rejected21:52
Rochahi21:53
ari-tczewthis is passing with the idea21:53
Rochai'm having some trouble with launchpad21:53
Rochahow can i branch two branches i have in a project registered in launchpad?21:54
ari-tczewRocha: #launchpad21:54
Rochaok21:54
ari-tczewStevenK: thanks for ACK!21:56
sebnerari-tczew: thx :)22:00
=== Mr_Enchilada is now known as JontheEnchilada
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
ari-tczewdevs! please give a comment on merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html including bug#number of sync's request, it making work on merges more easier22:21
ari-tczewsebner: you didn't change any package on main, so on universe I have marked all packages changes by you as "feel free to take it"22:27
sebnerari-tczew: great. thanks!22:27
ari-tczewsebner: working for MOTU it's my pleasure22:28
sebnerheh22:28
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
masterlol23:23
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!