| giancast | Good night | 02:04 |
|---|---|---|
| giancast | There is anyone here can help me | 02:04 |
| lonchiton | can i force a thin-client to log into at the same computer? | 02:37 |
| sbalneav | Evening all | 03:00 |
| HedgeMage | hi, sbalneav | 03:02 |
| cprofitt | hey nixternal | 04:26 |
| === nixternal_ is now known as nixternal | ||
| jbicha | sbalneav & others, sorry I didn't stay around for the chat yesterday, the time zones are a bummer some times | 14:38 |
| jbicha | but thank goodness there are chat logs :-) | 14:38 |
| jbicha | I mean I like to read chatlogs, I don't know what other people think | 14:39 |
| sbalneav | jbicha: Morning | 15:02 |
| jbicha | sbalneav: you live in Manitoba? | 15:03 |
| jbicha | Google says we're only supposed to have a high of 25C tomorrow, time to get out my jacket I think :-) | 15:05 |
| sbalneav | jbicha: Yep. Winnipeg, to be exact | 15:05 |
| jbicha | sbalneav: I've been to 8 provinces, only skipped Manitoba & Newfoundland | 15:06 |
| jbicha | my parents live in Alberta now actually | 15:06 |
| sbalneav | Wild Rose Country :) | 15:09 |
| jbicha | I saw freshly mowed grass today and the disturbing part wasn't that it was November but that there's so little grass and green stuff here in the desert | 15:11 |
| jbicha | anyway, interesting conversation yesterday | 15:14 |
| jbicha | contributing to debian is quite a bit more challenging than contributing to ubuntu I think | 15:14 |
| sbalneav | Well, the issue, as I see it, as I've always seen it, is one of resources. | 15:15 |
| sbalneav | Education isn't "sexy" | 15:15 |
| jbicha | how can you do the most good? to help the most people? | 15:15 |
| sbalneav | Hackers want to work on blingy new chat clients, and stuff like that. Flashcard programs for 4th graders isn't high on anyone's priority list. | 15:16 |
| jbicha | well, Canonical obviously can't figure out to how to make a profit off of it & so it's not really too big of a priority this year | 15:16 |
| sbalneav | So, if the goal is "to help the kids"... | 15:16 |
| Ahmuck | isn't it possible to re-build a system without any further downloads? | 15:16 |
| Ahmuck | ie, via debs stored on machine? | 15:17 |
| sbalneav | We can either muddle away in our little camp, debian-edu can muddle away in their little camp, etc. | 15:17 |
| Ahmuck | sbalneav: if you want a flashcard program, use anki | 15:17 |
| sbalneav | or, those of us who ARE interested can start forming up into a bigger "meta-pool" | 15:17 |
| Ahmuck | i've been repeating that over and over. someone needs to package anki for ubunut | 15:17 |
| sbalneav | Like Hedgemage is suggesting with her fron&owl. | 15:17 |
| Ahmuck | well, ok, i've been repeating that as well | 15:18 |
| sbalneav | Ahmuck: That was just a representive example. | 15:18 |
| Ahmuck | and caught a lot of flak from it | 15:18 |
| sbalneav | From who? | 15:18 |
| Ahmuck | those that are interested in promoting edubuntu needs to break away and do it | 15:18 |
| Ahmuck | soooo, are we at that point now? | 15:19 |
| Ahmuck | a self organizing group? | 15:20 |
| * Ahmuck hears a pin drop | 15:20 | |
| jbicha | Ahmuck: what about http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/anki ? | 15:20 |
| jbicha | isn't it already in the repos? | 15:20 |
| Ahmuck | kewl | 15:20 |
| Ahmuck | was it in jaunty? | 15:20 |
| Ahmuck | i know i suggested packaging it for karamic but did not realize it happened | 15:21 |
| jbicha | it appears to be there from Intrepid on | 15:21 |
| Ahmuck | i'd package it if i had a clue how. currently i build from source and then use checkinstall to create a deb | 15:21 |
| sbalneav | See, and this is the problem | 15:21 |
| Ahmuck | sooo, it's not included in the edubuntu release because? | 15:21 |
| sbalneav | Because you can't package | 15:22 |
| jbicha | we don't know what to put in the edubuntu release | 15:22 |
| sbalneav | because you're not doing the work to get it in there. | 15:22 |
| sbalneav | this is what I've been saying for some time. | 15:22 |
| sbalneav | WE NEED MORE *SSES AND MORE ELBOWS DOING MORE CODING. | 15:22 |
| jbicha | the new opensuse-edu is nice but do schools really need everything & the kitchen sink in their default install | 15:23 |
| Ahmuck | i'm not doing the work to get it there because i've not had anyone interested in ansering the multitude of questions that i would need to ask to learn ubuntu packaging | 15:23 |
| sbalneav | I'm saying the "you're not doing it" thing in jest, but that's our basic problem: too few people doing actual real work. | 15:23 |
| Ahmuck | sbalneav: u have a chicken/egg problem. however, to birth new coders you first need a chicken willing to lay the egg | 15:23 |
| jbicha | but there is a bunch of education software out there that people don't know about | 15:23 |
| Ahmuck | sbalneav: r u willing to mentor me for ubuntu packaging? | 15:24 |
| jbicha | I agree that packaging & coding has a pretty high threshold | 15:24 |
| sbalneav | Ahmuck: I'm learning MYSELF at this point. Since I'm mainly an "upstream guy", but yeah, I'm more than happy to pass things along as I learn | 15:24 |
| jbicha | I wonder if there's some way we could teach the kids to do it :-) | 15:24 |
| sbalneav | LaserJock's been teaching me some stuff, and I've been reading through the packaging guide. | 15:25 |
| sbalneav | But my goal is to become motu by Lucid's release.. | 15:26 |
| jbicha | I've had a hard time finding interesting software that's not in the repos that is packagable, there is some interesting stuff that has potential debian licensing issues | 15:26 |
| sbalneav | If anyone wants to sign up for the march with me, fall in, soldier. | 15:26 |
| jbicha | and there's also some java apps but that looks like too much to chew for a first-timer | 15:26 |
| sbalneav | Packaging new stuff, IMHO isn't as much as an issue, as getting the bugs knocked out of the stuff we already have. | 15:27 |
| jbicha | ah, thanks for clarifying | 15:27 |
| sbalneav | Screem needs love. gpaint's got problems, etc. | 15:27 |
| sbalneav | Obviously, anyone who learns packaging can work on anything they want, but MY goal for lucid is actually spending most of this cycle testing the cr*p out of things, and gettiung the bugs fixed. | 15:28 |
| sbalneav | It wasn't my package to look after, but gnome-users-admin shipped in karmic with a bug that doesn't allow an administrator to change someone's password. | 15:29 |
| sbalneav | I mean, geez. | 15:29 |
| sbalneav | That's how I see it. Now I'm just one guy, and nobody important, but I really want to see this LTS be something *stable* for the teachers/kids. | 15:30 |
| sbalneav | so at least, when they boot it up out-of-the-box, what's THERE will work for them. | 15:30 |
| sbalneav | We can always add new bling with the edubuntu-dev ppa's that we posted about. | 15:30 |
| sbalneav | Ahmuck: but yeah, I'll mentor you, and anyone else that wants it. | 15:31 |
| sbalneav | I can code in C, Python, Shell, I understand the autoconf system, etc. | 15:31 |
| sbalneav | all I need to learn is the packaging rules, and I'm golden. | 15:31 |
| jbicha | I see Open Source Education to have two main roles: provide quality educational software that gets better over time without being unaffordable to schools | 15:32 |
| Ahmuck | imho, you need a user on the EC | 15:32 |
| jbicha | ...and #2 preparing kids to be open source developers themselves, most colleges & universities sure aren't doing much that way | 15:32 |
| sbalneav | jbicha: well, that's 'cuz M$ gets in there, and gives them all complete labs worth of .Net tools. | 15:33 |
| Ahmuck | yes | 15:33 |
| jbicha | I think Java is #1 in the colleges.... & while that's kinda cross-platform, it doesn't fit well in Linux these days | 15:34 |
| Ahmuck | i'd love to be on the EC, however i tend to be a bit abrasive about what i think needs to be done from a (L)user's perspective | 15:34 |
| Ahmuck | and i'm not a programmer | 15:34 |
| sbalneav | Ahmuck: I was just about to say, why not run? | 15:34 |
| Ahmuck | but to have a QC team, you need someone that is a primarly a user, who asks stupid questions | 15:35 |
| Ahmuck | in addition, i think the EC needs to select a core of apps that are good, and user tested (ie children tested) and "sponser" those apps | 15:35 |
| Ahmuck | then it puts the pressure on the app designer/programer to fix up thier own app to get it into the coveted edubuntu set | 15:36 |
| sbalneav | So once again, I ask, are you going to put your name down to run? | 15:36 |
| Ahmuck | yes | 15:37 |
| sbalneav | I mean, personally, I'll take my name OFF, to let other people get elected. I'm here ANYWAY, and I just put my name down because for a while it looked like NO-ONE was going to sign up. | 15:37 |
| alkisg | Is there a limit to the number of members? How many are we looking for? 5? | 15:38 |
| sbalneav | I don't know if 5 is mandated or not. | 15:38 |
| sbalneav | highvoltage: ping | 15:38 |
| alkisg | Me, and also nubae, can be left off if there's a limit... | 15:39 |
| alkisg | I'm going to start my phd anyway, so I'll have my hands full for the next 3 years | 15:39 |
| sbalneav | I'll gladly withdraw, to give others a better chance. | 15:39 |
| Ahmuck | i think people need to be activly involved in edubuntu/ltsp EC | 15:40 |
| jbicha | but back to the previous conversation, contributing to debian is scary, I mean almost all packages are owned by someone and I feel it's difficult to | 15:40 |
| jbicha | come in and try to work on their stuff | 15:40 |
| alkisg | I think edubuntu needs coders more than anything else... | 15:40 |
| Ahmuck | anywho, somethings come up that i need to attend to | 15:40 |
| Ahmuck | i think you would get more coders through sponsership/mentors | 15:41 |
| Ahmuck | but that might take three releases to get there | 15:41 |
| Ahmuck | it's long term planning | 15:41 |
| Ahmuck | rather than fire hose planning | 15:41 |
| alkisg | I don't think we have anyone for sponsoring | 15:41 |
| sbalneav | Well, we use a lot of debian's packages. I'm all for having better integration between us and Debian, so long as we don't get pulled into a political morass like HedgeMage alluded to. | 15:41 |
| alkisg | !sbalneav++ :) | 15:42 |
| sbalneav | I'm just throwing out ideas. | 15:42 |
| ubottu | Sorry, I don't know anything about sbalneav++ :) | 15:42 |
| sbalneav | I got no karma, except what I build up in real life :) | 15:42 |
| alkisg | No that was an "I agree" statement :) | 15:42 |
| Ahmuck | HedgeMage alluded to? | 15:42 |
| sbalneav | HedgeMage used to be involved with debian-edu, political battles in 2000, blah, blah, she left, came to us. | 15:43 |
| Ahmuck | i don't think working on someone else's stuff is scary. if you can't get your contribution in, you create a ppa and or mirror and branch. if your code is accepted by the community and it's truly oss, then the original author will intergrate or compensate ... | 15:45 |
| Ahmuck | bbl | 15:45 |
| jbicha | Ahmuck: well, neither you nor I have done it yet | 15:47 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: pong | 15:47 |
| sbalneav | highvoltage: hey, is the council LIMITED to 5 people? | 15:49 |
| sbalneav | or can there be more? | 15:49 |
| Ahmuck | jbicha: not entirely true. i'm currently in planning stages of branching out a project where to much bickering is happening and not enough action | 15:49 |
| Ahmuck | because i can't code, i'm going to sponser some coding and then start a re-write of the project | 15:49 |
| jbicha | Ahmuck: sorry, my last comment was prob a bit rude, I thought you said you hadn't done packaging yet | 15:50 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: I don't think there's any hard limit | 15:51 |
| sbalneav | highvoltage: So, there's the potential that, so long as anyone who puts his/her name forward for the council, could just get it by "acclimation" | 15:58 |
| highvoltage | sbalneav: yes, although we're only electing 5 members in this election | 16:01 |
| jbicha | haha, so there is a hard limit :-) | 16:01 |
| highvoltage | jbicha: well it could be increased after the elections again, or even during the election | 16:01 |
| highvoltage | jbicha: but the election is currently for 5 | 16:02 |
| * mhall119|work is applying for Ubuntu Membership in ~ 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting | 20:55 | |
| sbalneav | Good luck! | 21:10 |
| mhall119|work | thanks | 21:11 |
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