giancastGood night02:04
giancastThere is anyone here can help me02:04
lonchitoncan i force a thin-client to log into at the same computer?02:37
sbalneavEvening all03:00
HedgeMagehi, sbalneav03:02
cprofitthey nixternal04:26
=== nixternal_ is now known as nixternal
jbichasbalneav & others, sorry I didn't stay around for the chat yesterday, the time zones are a bummer some times14:38
jbichabut thank goodness there are chat logs :-)14:38
jbichaI mean I like to read chatlogs, I don't know what other people think14:39
sbalneavjbicha: Morning15:02
jbichasbalneav: you live in Manitoba?15:03
jbichaGoogle says we're only supposed to have a high of 25C tomorrow, time to get out my jacket I think :-)15:05
sbalneavjbicha: Yep.  Winnipeg, to be exact15:05
jbichasbalneav: I've been to 8 provinces, only skipped Manitoba & Newfoundland15:06
jbichamy parents live in Alberta now actually15:06
sbalneavWild Rose Country :)15:09
jbichaI saw freshly mowed grass today and the disturbing part wasn't that it was November but that there's so little grass and green stuff here in the desert15:11
jbichaanyway, interesting conversation yesterday15:14
jbichacontributing to debian is quite a bit more challenging than contributing to ubuntu I think15:14
sbalneavWell, the issue, as I see it, as I've always seen it, is one of resources.15:15
sbalneavEducation isn't "sexy"15:15
jbichahow can you do the most good? to help the most people?15:15
sbalneavHackers want to work on blingy new chat clients, and stuff like that.  Flashcard programs for 4th graders isn't high on anyone's priority list.15:16
jbichawell, Canonical obviously can't figure out to how to make a profit off of it & so it's not really too big of a priority this year15:16
sbalneavSo, if the goal is "to help the kids"...15:16
Ahmuckisn't it possible to re-build a system without any further downloads?15:16
Ahmuckie, via debs stored on machine?15:17
sbalneavWe can either muddle away in our little camp, debian-edu can muddle away in their little camp, etc.15:17
Ahmucksbalneav: if you want a flashcard program, use anki15:17
sbalneavor, those of us who ARE interested can start forming up into a bigger "meta-pool"15:17
Ahmucki've been repeating that over and over.  someone needs to package anki for ubunut15:17
sbalneavLike Hedgemage is suggesting with her fron&owl.15:17
Ahmuckwell, ok, i've been repeating that as well15:18
sbalneavAhmuck: That was just a representive example.15:18
Ahmuckand caught a lot of flak from it15:18
sbalneavFrom who?15:18
Ahmuckthose that are interested in promoting edubuntu needs to break away and do it15:18
Ahmucksoooo, are we at that point now?15:19
Ahmucka self organizing group?15:20
* Ahmuck hears a pin drop15:20
jbichaAhmuck: what about http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/anki ?15:20
jbichaisn't it already in the repos?15:20
Ahmuckwas it in jaunty?15:20
Ahmucki know i suggested packaging it for karamic but did not realize it happened15:21
jbichait appears to be there from Intrepid on15:21
Ahmucki'd package it if i had a clue how.  currently i build from source and then use checkinstall to create a deb15:21
sbalneavSee, and this is the problem15:21
Ahmucksooo, it's not included in the edubuntu release because?15:21
sbalneavBecause you can't package15:22
jbichawe don't know what to put in the edubuntu release15:22
sbalneavbecause you're not doing the work to get it in there.15:22
sbalneavthis is what I've been saying for some time.15:22
jbichathe new opensuse-edu is nice but do schools really need everything & the kitchen sink in their default install15:23
Ahmucki'm not doing the work to get it there because i've not had anyone interested in ansering the multitude of questions that i would need to ask to learn ubuntu packaging15:23
sbalneavI'm saying the "you're not doing it" thing in jest, but that's our basic problem: too few people doing actual real work.15:23
Ahmucksbalneav: u have a chicken/egg problem.  however, to birth new coders you first need a chicken willing to lay the egg15:23
jbichabut there is a bunch of education software out there that people don't know about15:23
Ahmucksbalneav: r u willing to mentor me for ubuntu packaging?15:24
jbichaI agree that packaging & coding has a pretty high threshold15:24
sbalneavAhmuck: I'm learning MYSELF at this point.  Since I'm mainly an "upstream guy", but yeah, I'm more than happy to pass things along as I learn15:24
jbichaI wonder if there's some way we could teach the kids to do it :-)15:24
sbalneavLaserJock's been teaching me some stuff, and I've been reading through the packaging guide.15:25
sbalneavBut my goal is to become motu by Lucid's release..15:26
jbichaI've had a hard time finding interesting software that's not in the repos that is packagable, there is some interesting stuff that has potential debian licensing issues15:26
sbalneavIf anyone wants to sign up for the march with me, fall in, soldier.15:26
jbichaand there's also some java apps but that looks like too much to chew for a first-timer15:26
sbalneavPackaging new stuff, IMHO isn't as much as an issue, as getting the bugs knocked out of the stuff we already have.15:27
jbichaah, thanks for clarifying15:27
sbalneavScreem needs love. gpaint's got problems, etc.15:27
sbalneavObviously, anyone who learns packaging can work on anything they want, but MY goal for lucid is actually spending most of this cycle testing the cr*p out of things, and gettiung the bugs fixed.15:28
sbalneavIt wasn't my package to look after, but gnome-users-admin shipped in karmic with a bug that doesn't allow an administrator to change someone's password.15:29
sbalneavI mean, geez.15:29
sbalneavThat's how I see it.  Now I'm just one guy, and nobody important, but I really want to see this LTS be something *stable* for the teachers/kids.15:30
sbalneavso at least, when they boot it up out-of-the-box, what's THERE will work for them.15:30
sbalneavWe can always add new bling with the edubuntu-dev ppa's that we posted about.15:30
sbalneavAhmuck: but yeah, I'll mentor you, and anyone else that wants it.15:31
sbalneavI can code in C, Python, Shell, I understand the autoconf system, etc.15:31
sbalneavall I need to learn is the packaging rules, and I'm golden.15:31
jbichaI see Open Source Education to have two main roles: provide quality educational software that gets better over time without being unaffordable to schools15:32
Ahmuckimho, you need a user on the EC15:32
jbicha...and #2 preparing kids to be open source developers themselves, most colleges & universities sure aren't doing much that way15:32
sbalneavjbicha: well, that's 'cuz M$ gets in there, and gives them all complete labs worth of .Net tools.15:33
jbichaI think Java is #1 in the colleges.... & while that's kinda cross-platform, it doesn't fit well in Linux these days15:34
Ahmucki'd love to be on the EC, however i tend to be a bit abrasive about what i think needs to be done from a (L)user's perspective15:34
Ahmuckand i'm not a programmer15:34
sbalneavAhmuck: I was just about to say, why not run?15:34
Ahmuckbut to have a QC team, you need someone that is a primarly a user, who asks stupid questions15:35
Ahmuckin addition, i think the EC needs to select a core of apps that are good, and user tested (ie children tested) and "sponser" those apps15:35
Ahmuckthen it puts the pressure on the app designer/programer to fix up thier own app to get it into the coveted edubuntu set15:36
sbalneavSo once again, I ask, are you going to put your name down to run?15:36
sbalneavI mean, personally, I'll take my name OFF, to let other people get elected.  I'm here ANYWAY, and I just put my name down because for a while it looked like NO-ONE was going to sign up.15:37
alkisgIs there a limit to the number of members? How many are we looking for? 5?15:38
sbalneavI don't know if 5 is mandated or not.15:38
sbalneavhighvoltage: ping15:38
alkisgMe, and also nubae, can be left off if there's a limit...15:39
alkisgI'm going to start my phd anyway, so I'll have my hands full for the next 3 years15:39
sbalneavI'll gladly withdraw, to give others a better chance.15:39
Ahmucki think people need to be activly involved in edubuntu/ltsp EC15:40
jbichabut back to the previous conversation, contributing to debian is scary, I mean almost all packages are owned by someone and I feel it's difficult to15:40
jbichacome in and try to work on their stuff15:40
alkisgI think edubuntu needs coders more than anything else...15:40
Ahmuckanywho, somethings come up that i need to attend to15:40
Ahmucki think you would get more coders through sponsership/mentors15:41
Ahmuckbut that might take three releases to get there15:41
Ahmuckit's long term planning15:41
Ahmuckrather than fire hose planning15:41
alkisgI don't think we have anyone for sponsoring15:41
sbalneavWell, we use a lot of debian's packages.  I'm all for having better integration between us and Debian, so long as we don't get pulled into a political morass like HedgeMage alluded to.15:41
alkisg!sbalneav++ :)15:42
sbalneavI'm just throwing out ideas.15:42
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about sbalneav++ :)15:42
sbalneavI got no karma, except what I build up in real life :)15:42
alkisgNo that was an "I agree" statement :)15:42
AhmuckHedgeMage alluded to?15:42
sbalneavHedgeMage used to be involved with debian-edu, political battles in 2000, blah, blah, she left, came to us.15:43
Ahmucki don't think working on someone else's stuff is scary.  if you can't get your contribution in, you create a ppa and or mirror and branch.  if your code is accepted by the community and it's truly oss, then the original author will intergrate or compensate ...15:45
jbichaAhmuck: well, neither you nor I have done it yet15:47
highvoltagesbalneav: pong15:47
sbalneavhighvoltage: hey, is the council LIMITED to 5 people?15:49
sbalneavor can there be more?15:49
Ahmuckjbicha: not entirely true.  i'm currently in planning stages of branching out a project where to much bickering is happening and not enough action15:49
Ahmuckbecause i can't code, i'm going to sponser some coding and then start a re-write of the project15:49
jbichaAhmuck: sorry, my last comment was prob a bit rude, I thought you said you hadn't done packaging yet15:50
highvoltagesbalneav: I don't think there's any hard limit15:51
sbalneavhighvoltage: So, there's the potential that, so long as anyone who puts his/her name forward for the council, could just get it by "acclimation"15:58
highvoltagesbalneav: yes, although we're only electing 5 members in this election16:01
jbichahaha, so there is a hard limit :-)16:01
highvoltagejbicha: well it could be increased after the elections again, or even during the election16:01
highvoltagejbicha: but the election is currently for 516:02
* mhall119|work is applying for Ubuntu Membership in ~ 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting20:55
sbalneavGood luck!21:10

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