[02:04] Good night [02:04] There is anyone here can help me [02:37] can i force a thin-client to log into at the same computer? [03:00] Evening all [03:02] hi, sbalneav [04:26] hey nixternal === nixternal_ is now known as nixternal [14:38] sbalneav & others, sorry I didn't stay around for the chat yesterday, the time zones are a bummer some times [14:38] but thank goodness there are chat logs :-) [14:39] I mean I like to read chatlogs, I don't know what other people think [15:02] jbicha: Morning [15:03] sbalneav: you live in Manitoba? [15:05] Google says we're only supposed to have a high of 25C tomorrow, time to get out my jacket I think :-) [15:05] jbicha: Yep. Winnipeg, to be exact [15:06] sbalneav: I've been to 8 provinces, only skipped Manitoba & Newfoundland [15:06] my parents live in Alberta now actually [15:09] Wild Rose Country :) [15:11] I saw freshly mowed grass today and the disturbing part wasn't that it was November but that there's so little grass and green stuff here in the desert [15:14] anyway, interesting conversation yesterday [15:14] contributing to debian is quite a bit more challenging than contributing to ubuntu I think [15:15] Well, the issue, as I see it, as I've always seen it, is one of resources. [15:15] Education isn't "sexy" [15:15] how can you do the most good? to help the most people? [15:16] Hackers want to work on blingy new chat clients, and stuff like that. Flashcard programs for 4th graders isn't high on anyone's priority list. [15:16] well, Canonical obviously can't figure out to how to make a profit off of it & so it's not really too big of a priority this year [15:16] So, if the goal is "to help the kids"... [15:16] isn't it possible to re-build a system without any further downloads? [15:17] ie, via debs stored on machine? [15:17] We can either muddle away in our little camp, debian-edu can muddle away in their little camp, etc. [15:17] sbalneav: if you want a flashcard program, use anki [15:17] or, those of us who ARE interested can start forming up into a bigger "meta-pool" [15:17] i've been repeating that over and over. someone needs to package anki for ubunut [15:17] Like Hedgemage is suggesting with her fron&owl. [15:18] well, ok, i've been repeating that as well [15:18] Ahmuck: That was just a representive example. [15:18] and caught a lot of flak from it [15:18] From who? [15:18] those that are interested in promoting edubuntu needs to break away and do it [15:19] soooo, are we at that point now? [15:20] a self organizing group? [15:20] * Ahmuck hears a pin drop [15:20] Ahmuck: what about http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/anki ? [15:20] isn't it already in the repos? [15:20] kewl [15:20] was it in jaunty? [15:21] i know i suggested packaging it for karamic but did not realize it happened [15:21] it appears to be there from Intrepid on [15:21] i'd package it if i had a clue how. currently i build from source and then use checkinstall to create a deb [15:21] See, and this is the problem [15:21] sooo, it's not included in the edubuntu release because? [15:22] Because you can't package [15:22] we don't know what to put in the edubuntu release [15:22] because you're not doing the work to get it in there. [15:22] this is what I've been saying for some time. [15:22] WE NEED MORE *SSES AND MORE ELBOWS DOING MORE CODING. [15:23] the new opensuse-edu is nice but do schools really need everything & the kitchen sink in their default install [15:23] i'm not doing the work to get it there because i've not had anyone interested in ansering the multitude of questions that i would need to ask to learn ubuntu packaging [15:23] I'm saying the "you're not doing it" thing in jest, but that's our basic problem: too few people doing actual real work. [15:23] sbalneav: u have a chicken/egg problem. however, to birth new coders you first need a chicken willing to lay the egg [15:23] but there is a bunch of education software out there that people don't know about [15:24] sbalneav: r u willing to mentor me for ubuntu packaging? [15:24] I agree that packaging & coding has a pretty high threshold [15:24] Ahmuck: I'm learning MYSELF at this point. Since I'm mainly an "upstream guy", but yeah, I'm more than happy to pass things along as I learn [15:24] I wonder if there's some way we could teach the kids to do it :-) [15:25] LaserJock's been teaching me some stuff, and I've been reading through the packaging guide. [15:26] But my goal is to become motu by Lucid's release.. [15:26] I've had a hard time finding interesting software that's not in the repos that is packagable, there is some interesting stuff that has potential debian licensing issues [15:26] If anyone wants to sign up for the march with me, fall in, soldier. [15:26] and there's also some java apps but that looks like too much to chew for a first-timer [15:27] Packaging new stuff, IMHO isn't as much as an issue, as getting the bugs knocked out of the stuff we already have. [15:27] ah, thanks for clarifying [15:27] Screem needs love. gpaint's got problems, etc. [15:28] Obviously, anyone who learns packaging can work on anything they want, but MY goal for lucid is actually spending most of this cycle testing the cr*p out of things, and gettiung the bugs fixed. [15:29] It wasn't my package to look after, but gnome-users-admin shipped in karmic with a bug that doesn't allow an administrator to change someone's password. [15:29] I mean, geez. [15:30] That's how I see it. Now I'm just one guy, and nobody important, but I really want to see this LTS be something *stable* for the teachers/kids. [15:30] so at least, when they boot it up out-of-the-box, what's THERE will work for them. [15:30] We can always add new bling with the edubuntu-dev ppa's that we posted about. [15:31] Ahmuck: but yeah, I'll mentor you, and anyone else that wants it. [15:31] I can code in C, Python, Shell, I understand the autoconf system, etc. [15:31] all I need to learn is the packaging rules, and I'm golden. [15:32] I see Open Source Education to have two main roles: provide quality educational software that gets better over time without being unaffordable to schools [15:32] imho, you need a user on the EC [15:32] ...and #2 preparing kids to be open source developers themselves, most colleges & universities sure aren't doing much that way [15:33] jbicha: well, that's 'cuz M$ gets in there, and gives them all complete labs worth of .Net tools. [15:33] yes [15:34] I think Java is #1 in the colleges.... & while that's kinda cross-platform, it doesn't fit well in Linux these days [15:34] i'd love to be on the EC, however i tend to be a bit abrasive about what i think needs to be done from a (L)user's perspective [15:34] and i'm not a programmer [15:34] Ahmuck: I was just about to say, why not run? [15:35] but to have a QC team, you need someone that is a primarly a user, who asks stupid questions [15:35] in addition, i think the EC needs to select a core of apps that are good, and user tested (ie children tested) and "sponser" those apps [15:36] then it puts the pressure on the app designer/programer to fix up thier own app to get it into the coveted edubuntu set [15:36] So once again, I ask, are you going to put your name down to run? [15:37] yes [15:37] I mean, personally, I'll take my name OFF, to let other people get elected. I'm here ANYWAY, and I just put my name down because for a while it looked like NO-ONE was going to sign up. [15:38] Is there a limit to the number of members? How many are we looking for? 5? [15:38] I don't know if 5 is mandated or not. [15:38] highvoltage: ping [15:39] Me, and also nubae, can be left off if there's a limit... [15:39] I'm going to start my phd anyway, so I'll have my hands full for the next 3 years [15:39] I'll gladly withdraw, to give others a better chance. [15:40] i think people need to be activly involved in edubuntu/ltsp EC [15:40] but back to the previous conversation, contributing to debian is scary, I mean almost all packages are owned by someone and I feel it's difficult to [15:40] come in and try to work on their stuff [15:40] I think edubuntu needs coders more than anything else... [15:40] anywho, somethings come up that i need to attend to [15:41] i think you would get more coders through sponsership/mentors [15:41] but that might take three releases to get there [15:41] it's long term planning [15:41] rather than fire hose planning [15:41] I don't think we have anyone for sponsoring [15:41] Well, we use a lot of debian's packages. I'm all for having better integration between us and Debian, so long as we don't get pulled into a political morass like HedgeMage alluded to. [15:42] !sbalneav++ :) [15:42] I'm just throwing out ideas. [15:42] Sorry, I don't know anything about sbalneav++ :) [15:42] I got no karma, except what I build up in real life :) [15:42] No that was an "I agree" statement :) [15:42] HedgeMage alluded to? [15:43] HedgeMage used to be involved with debian-edu, political battles in 2000, blah, blah, she left, came to us. [15:45] i don't think working on someone else's stuff is scary. if you can't get your contribution in, you create a ppa and or mirror and branch. if your code is accepted by the community and it's truly oss, then the original author will intergrate or compensate ... [15:45] bbl [15:47] Ahmuck: well, neither you nor I have done it yet [15:47] sbalneav: pong [15:49] highvoltage: hey, is the council LIMITED to 5 people? [15:49] or can there be more? [15:49] jbicha: not entirely true. i'm currently in planning stages of branching out a project where to much bickering is happening and not enough action [15:49] because i can't code, i'm going to sponser some coding and then start a re-write of the project [15:50] Ahmuck: sorry, my last comment was prob a bit rude, I thought you said you hadn't done packaging yet [15:51] sbalneav: I don't think there's any hard limit [15:58] highvoltage: So, there's the potential that, so long as anyone who puts his/her name forward for the council, could just get it by "acclimation" [16:01] sbalneav: yes, although we're only electing 5 members in this election [16:01] haha, so there is a hard limit :-) [16:01] jbicha: well it could be increased after the elections again, or even during the election [16:02] jbicha: but the election is currently for 5 [20:55] * mhall119|work is applying for Ubuntu Membership in ~ 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting [21:10] Good luck! [21:11] thanks