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vuntzdidrocks: go to bed!04:47
didrocksvuntz: I'm in bed :)04:47
vuntzsame :-)04:47
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baptistemmDoes anyone have an SSD disk here? I'm open to any comment or suggestion to replace the mechanic disk of my T6114:01
baptistemmChristmas is coming :)14:01
ccookebaptistemm: yes, I have one14:01
ccookewhat are you after?14:02
Laneytasty, new tomboy14:02
baptistemmccooke, what you mean? I head of the Intel x25-m, there were nice but it was one year ago, what hot now14:03
ccookebaptistemm: I have an Intel X25-M g214:03
baptistemms/ head/ heard14:03
ccookewhich are cheaper than the original x25-m and faster14:03
baptistemmah nice14:03
ccookeThey were still the best in terms of common usage a couple of months ago, when I bought mine14:04
baptistemmI don't doo a lot of I/O, I just want fast boot and quick app launching14:04
baptistemmand no more trade-off about the capacity14:04
baptistemmI have 130 GB I guess in my laptop14:05
ccookethe intel -m series are artificially limited in sequential write speed to differentiate from the -e series (which are much more expensive). They're slower than other SSDs for that, but the fastest for the usage most people actually do: random read and write is *fast*.14:05
ccookeI have the 160GB SSD.14:05
ccookeThere'll be a 320GB out (now or later, I forget).. and that should be faster than the 16014:05
ccookegenerally with SSD, the more space you have the faster the disk14:06
baptistemmis G2 == "postville" ? I see that when looking for X2514:06
baptistemm160  is 379,98 €14:07
ccookethat's right14:07
baptistemmwhat a price for a hard drivce14:09
ccookeyes, but my laptop now boots in about 3-4 seconds :-)14:10
pittikenvandine: yes, I did so yesterday (gwibber session)14:26
pittiTheMuso: alternatives are very brittle unfortunately; perhaps we can find a better way, like adding another gconf search path for gdm for derivative themes to stack on?14:29
baptistemmccooke, that impressive14:30
mannyvive filed a few sync requests for some desktop packages on LP. Is that all I need to do or is there some further step to get them processed?14:40
mannyvbtw I was formerly serialorder, decided to follow suit and just use my name =P14:41
TheMusopitti: Fair enough. If I manage to catch you at some point during the rest of this week, we can have a chat about it.15:02
kenvandinepitti, thx... i found it last night.  We couldn't find it in the summit system in the afternoon.16:32
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LaserJockkenvandine: ping22:08
kenvandineLaserJock, pong22:15
LaserJockkenvandine: hi, I was looking at bug #444170 again22:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 444170 in indicator-session "empathy started automatically on incoming message" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44417022:15
* kenvandine just commented on that :)22:16
LaserJockkenvandine: are there any plans for hooking up more services/apps to the session applet?22:16
LaserJockright now it seems like empathy's behavior is the odd one22:17
kenvandinenot certain atm, i know there are some specs22:17
kenvandinewell it isn't actually the session applet22:17
kenvandineit is what mission-control-5 does22:17
kenvandineit is possible that there is a way the applet could change the behavior22:17
kenvandinebut i don't have ideas there22:17
kenvandinelike how should the applet know if you want to be online or not?22:18
LaserJockI don't have a problem with the session applet22:18
LaserJockit's more  like a problem with mission control22:18
kenvandinei don't think so22:18
kenvandinei think that design is right22:19
kenvandinethe question is can we be better at predicting when we should connect to it22:19
LaserJockI don't see how the design is really right though22:19
LaserJockit's opening up apps when I've closed them22:19
kenvandineif you set it to offline or dnd, it won't open them22:20
kenvandineLaserJock, sort of22:20
LaserJockok, but that's the *only* app where that happens22:20
LaserJockit's unexpected behavior22:20
kenvandineempathy is a handler for incoming messages22:20
kenvandineso mission-control-5 opens empathy as the handler22:20
kenvandinei think the missing piece is telling MC what the right state is22:21
LaserJockwell, for me the problem is that I can't tell individual services what state I want to be in22:21
LaserJockthe "normal" way to do that is to open or close the app22:21
LaserJockbut with empathy/mission-control that's no longer really the case22:21
kenvandineright, because you didn't close the program that gets the messages22:22
kenvandineyou closed the current instance of the handler for those messages22:22
LaserJockright, but I didn't know I "opened" that app22:22
kenvandineperhaps when you quit empathy it should set your status as offline22:22
LaserJockso you see where it gets to be confusing22:22
kenvandinei agree it is confusing22:23
LaserJockbut what if I'm not offline22:23
LaserJockwhat if I just don't want IM's at the moment22:23
kenvandinewell... what should happen when you get a message and you don't have an IM client running?22:23
ZdraLaserJock, in empathy you can go to discussion->quit22:23
Zdrathat will disconnect your accounts22:23
Zdraor just set your presence offline22:23
kenvandineZdra, he wants a different state22:23
LaserJockkenvandine: nothing22:23
kenvandinehe wants to be online22:24
kenvandinebut not get messages22:24
LaserJockI want to say "I don't want any IMs but I do want emails"22:24
LaserJockor "I want microblogging and IMs but no email"22:24
kenvandineLaserJock, offline doesn't make you stop getting emails :)22:24
kenvandinethat presence in the status applet only affects your IM status22:24
kenvandineat least now22:24
LaserJockright, but how am I to know? that's what is confusing22:25
LaserJockeach app acts differently22:25
LaserJockit's super confusing22:25
kenvandineLaserJock, perhaps when you quit empathy it should set you to offline?22:25
kenvandineand the session applet won't change that back unless you do it22:25
LaserJockbut what if I don't want to be offline?22:25
LaserJockthe thing is, "offline" is almost meaningless in this context22:26
LaserJockoffline to what?22:26
kenvandineLaserJock, offline means you don't get messages22:26
LaserJockI just want a particular service to go away22:26
kenvandineyeah... so offline does that22:26
LaserJockbut it will to all services, no?22:26
LaserJockwhy only IM?22:27
kenvandinethat is all the session applet sets now22:27
LaserJockwell, but that's not the designed state of things is it?22:27
kenvandinewe've talked about getting hints from that for other apps22:27
kenvandineso like gwibber might not send notifications if you have set offline or DND22:27
kenvandineit is22:27
kenvandineLaserJock, that was the design for the karmic cycle22:28
LaserJockok, so what's the point of having it only interact with 1 service22:28
LaserJock1 app even22:28
kenvandinenot an app22:28
kenvandinea service22:28
LaserJockwouldn't it be better to just leave it alone?22:28
kenvandineit was a start22:28
kenvandinewe want to use that to set some presence information/hints desktop wide22:28
LaserJockthe inconsistency is worse than the problem trying to be fixed22:28
kenvandineIM was the obvious start22:28
LaserJock*so* that goes back to my question22:28
LaserJockwhat if I only want a particular service "offline"22:28
LaserJockhow will I do that?22:29
kenvandineyou mean a single IM account?22:29
LaserJocksay empathy, gwibber, and evolution are all using these hints or whatever22:29
kenvandinethat is the only service affected by this22:29
LaserJockbut you just said you hope more will use it22:29
* kenvandine isn't a user experience guy :)22:29
LaserJockso if they do22:29
kenvandinethere haven't been completely designed yet22:30
LaserJockwhat will the meaning of "offline" be22:30
kenvandinethat interaction hasn't been completely decided22:30
LaserJockthen why is it implemented!22:30
kenvandineit isn't22:30
kenvandinethis was to prevent a regression22:30
LaserJockthen why does this bug exist?22:30
kenvandinethe fast user switching applet in jaunty and eariler would set your IM status22:31
kenvandinefor pidgin22:31
LaserJockright, I thought that was a bug, but whatever22:31
kenvandinethe difference is this sets pidgin or mission-control depending on which is running and configured22:31
LaserJockok, but the real issue here is that pidgin is a user-facing app22:31
LaserJockmission-control is ont22:31
LaserJockand that's a huge difference in behavior22:32
LaserJockI didn't even know mission-control existed22:32
* kenvandine does think most people want to set themselves as offline when they want to be offline22:32
LaserJockall I knew was that I closed an app and then it kept reopening22:32
kenvandineyeah, it isn't obvious22:32
LaserJockwhen I want to be offline I close apps22:32
kenvandinenote the status is still reported in the applet22:32
kenvandineso you can see you are still online22:33
LaserJockbut it makes pretty much 0 sense to have to use an applet to actual "close" an app22:33
* kenvandine thinks the concept of closing an app doesn't apply so much anymore22:34
LaserJockwhy not?22:34
kenvandinebut that is a much bigger discussion than i can get into now :)22:34
LaserJockI've yet to experience a person who does anything but close the app when they decide they are done22:34
kenvandineanyway, if you have suggestions on how that interaction can be better please provide that22:34
kenvandineso the UX folks can weigh in22:34
kenvandinefor openoffice that makes sense22:35
kenvandinebut for communications that is different22:35
LaserJockmy suggestion would be to get rid of the session status thing until more than empath/mission control uses it22:35
kenvandinedo you unplug your land line phone at home when you aren't using your phone?22:35
LaserJockno, but I hang up the headset!22:35
kenvandineit's the same thing22:35
kenvandinepeople can still call you22:35
LaserJockbut if you don't want them to, what do you do?22:36
kenvandineyou just ignore it :)22:36
LaserJockyou turn the bugger off or unplug it22:36
LaserJockwith a cell phone you turn it off22:36
kenvandineso on your desktop, you set your IM to offline22:36
LaserJockno, I close the IM app ;-)22:36
* kenvandine needs to get back to this UDS session :) 22:37
LaserJockI mean, I understand where this is headed22:37
kenvandineLaserJock, please provide the feedback in the bug report though22:37
LaserJockbut partial implementations are just more confusing22:37
kenvandinewe definately want your feedback22:38
LaserJockkenvandine: I just dont' know how to give it, frankly22:39
kenvandineyeah... understand22:40
LaserJockUbuntu is just really starting to feel far away from what I find personally usable22:40
LaserJockand since it seems to be by design I'm having problems trying to figure out how I can help22:40
kenvandineit isn't just ubuntu, it is more things are becoming more widely used across the desktop22:41
kenvandinewhich i think is awesome... the ability to leverage telepathy from other desktop apps is awesome22:42
kenvandinei think it is just good progress, evolution of desktop technologies22:42
LaserJockI've been using the desktop and file sharing22:42
LaserJockthat's cool22:42
LaserJockbut then empathy is really not a very good IM/IRC client for me22:43
kenvandinethe thing is it needs to feel natural for you to set yourself as offline when you want to be offline22:43
* kenvandine thinks it is a great IM client... but not a great irc client22:43
LaserJockso I get frustrated when features are added but seemingly basic stuff stops realy working22:43
kenvandineLaserJock, but this isn't something that stopped working, it is that it requires different behavior22:43
LaserJockmy essential problem with all this is that I have very different levels of offline and online22:44
LaserJockwell, I currently don't trust that I can use Ubuntu to give a presentation22:44
LaserJockI used to, but not any more22:44
kenvandinewhy not?22:44
kenvandineset yourself to offline and quit gwibber22:44
LaserJockbecause frankly I'm afraid some notification is going to pop up22:44
kenvandinequitting gwibber does kill the service now22:44
LaserJockbut I don't know where they come from22:44
LaserJockbecause I didn't know about those, maybe there are others22:45
LaserJockafter talking with you guys for a while I feel like I understand it a bit better22:45
LaserJockbut there were a few days there where I was kinda freaked out22:45
kenvandinei added that quit behavior based on our conversation :)22:45
LaserJockthings were just popping up, and I couldn't tell why22:45
kenvandineand for the next cycle gwibber will take hints from your status22:45
kenvandineso not display notifications when you are offline or dnd22:46
kenvandinesomething like that22:46
LaserJockyeah, that's definitely better22:46
kenvandinewe have been discussing that this week at uds22:46
kenvandinewe will use mission-control for a hint22:47
LaserJockI just started feeling like I couldn't trust my computer22:47
LaserJockwhich sounds silly22:47
LaserJockbut I was going around with ps aux for a while making sure I had everything closed before doing a demo or talk for instance22:47
LaserJockwhich seems like a step down in usability, at least IMO :-)22:48
LaserJockspeaking of empathy as an IM client, does anybody know how to get it to have chats all in the same window?22:56
TheMusopitti: Would derivatives be able to set an additional gconf path when they install a particular gdm theme package, or does the gdm package need to be extended to add another path?23:51
pittiTheMuso: I'm not entirely sure; I think we should discuss that with seb12823:59

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