| === onestone_ is now known as onestone | ||
| vuntz | didrocks: go to bed! | 04:47 |
|---|---|---|
| didrocks | vuntz: I'm in bed :) | 04:47 |
| didrocks | you? | 04:47 |
| vuntz | same :-) | 04:47 |
| === YDdraigGoch is now known as WelshDragon | ||
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| baptistemm | Does anyone have an SSD disk here? I'm open to any comment or suggestion to replace the mechanic disk of my T61 | 14:01 |
| baptistemm | Christmas is coming :) | 14:01 |
| ccooke | baptistemm: yes, I have one | 14:01 |
| ccooke | what are you after? | 14:02 |
| Laney | tasty, new tomboy | 14:02 |
| baptistemm | ccooke, what you mean? I head of the Intel x25-m, there were nice but it was one year ago, what hot now | 14:03 |
| baptistemm | +'s | 14:03 |
| ccooke | baptistemm: I have an Intel X25-M g2 | 14:03 |
| baptistemm | s/ head/ heard | 14:03 |
| baptistemm | ah | 14:03 |
| ccooke | which are cheaper than the original x25-m and faster | 14:03 |
| baptistemm | ah nice | 14:03 |
| ccooke | They were still the best in terms of common usage a couple of months ago, when I bought mine | 14:04 |
| baptistemm | I don't doo a lot of I/O, I just want fast boot and quick app launching | 14:04 |
| baptistemm | :) | 14:04 |
| baptistemm | and no more trade-off about the capacity | 14:04 |
| baptistemm | I have 130 GB I guess in my laptop | 14:05 |
| ccooke | the intel -m series are artificially limited in sequential write speed to differentiate from the -e series (which are much more expensive). They're slower than other SSDs for that, but the fastest for the usage most people actually do: random read and write is *fast*. | 14:05 |
| ccooke | I have the 160GB SSD. | 14:05 |
| ccooke | There'll be a 320GB out (now or later, I forget).. and that should be faster than the 160 | 14:05 |
| ccooke | generally with SSD, the more space you have the faster the disk | 14:06 |
| baptistemm | eh | 14:06 |
| baptistemm | is G2 == "postville" ? I see that when looking for X25 | 14:06 |
| baptistemm | 160 is 379,98 € | 14:07 |
| ccooke | that's right | 14:07 |
| baptistemm | what a price for a hard drivce | 14:09 |
| ccooke | yes, but my laptop now boots in about 3-4 seconds :-) | 14:10 |
| pitti | kenvandine: yes, I did so yesterday (gwibber session) | 14:26 |
| pitti | TheMuso: alternatives are very brittle unfortunately; perhaps we can find a better way, like adding another gconf search path for gdm for derivative themes to stack on? | 14:29 |
| baptistemm | ccooke, that impressive | 14:30 |
| mannyv | ive filed a few sync requests for some desktop packages on LP. Is that all I need to do or is there some further step to get them processed? | 14:40 |
| mannyv | btw I was formerly serialorder, decided to follow suit and just use my name =P | 14:41 |
| TheMuso | pitti: Fair enough. If I manage to catch you at some point during the rest of this week, we can have a chat about it. | 15:02 |
| kenvandine | pitti, thx... i found it last night. We couldn't find it in the summit system in the afternoon. | 16:32 |
| === hggdh_ is now known as hggdh | ||
| === robbiew1 is now known as robbiew | ||
| LaserJock | kenvandine: ping | 22:08 |
| kenvandine | LaserJock, pong | 22:15 |
| LaserJock | kenvandine: hi, I was looking at bug #444170 again | 22:15 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 444170 in indicator-session "empathy started automatically on incoming message" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444170 | 22:15 |
| * kenvandine just commented on that :) | 22:16 | |
| LaserJock | kenvandine: are there any plans for hooking up more services/apps to the session applet? | 22:16 |
| LaserJock | right now it seems like empathy's behavior is the odd one | 22:17 |
| kenvandine | not certain atm, i know there are some specs | 22:17 |
| kenvandine | well it isn't actually the session applet | 22:17 |
| kenvandine | it is what mission-control-5 does | 22:17 |
| kenvandine | however | 22:17 |
| kenvandine | it is possible that there is a way the applet could change the behavior | 22:17 |
| kenvandine | but i don't have ideas there | 22:17 |
| kenvandine | like how should the applet know if you want to be online or not? | 22:18 |
| LaserJock | well | 22:18 |
| LaserJock | I don't have a problem with the session applet | 22:18 |
| LaserJock | it's more like a problem with mission control | 22:18 |
| kenvandine | i don't think so | 22:18 |
| kenvandine | i think that design is right | 22:19 |
| kenvandine | the question is can we be better at predicting when we should connect to it | 22:19 |
| LaserJock | I don't see how the design is really right though | 22:19 |
| LaserJock | it's opening up apps when I've closed them | 22:19 |
| kenvandine | if you set it to offline or dnd, it won't open them | 22:20 |
| kenvandine | LaserJock, sort of | 22:20 |
| LaserJock | ok, but that's the *only* app where that happens | 22:20 |
| LaserJock | it's unexpected behavior | 22:20 |
| kenvandine | empathy is a handler for incoming messages | 22:20 |
| kenvandine | so mission-control-5 opens empathy as the handler | 22:20 |
| kenvandine | i think the missing piece is telling MC what the right state is | 22:21 |
| LaserJock | well, for me the problem is that I can't tell individual services what state I want to be in | 22:21 |
| LaserJock | the "normal" way to do that is to open or close the app | 22:21 |
| kenvandine | yeah | 22:21 |
| LaserJock | but with empathy/mission-control that's no longer really the case | 22:21 |
| kenvandine | right, because you didn't close the program that gets the messages | 22:22 |
| kenvandine | you closed the current instance of the handler for those messages | 22:22 |
| LaserJock | right, but I didn't know I "opened" that app | 22:22 |
| kenvandine | perhaps when you quit empathy it should set your status as offline | 22:22 |
| LaserJock | so you see where it gets to be confusing | 22:22 |
| kenvandine | yeah | 22:23 |
| kenvandine | i agree it is confusing | 22:23 |
| LaserJock | but what if I'm not offline | 22:23 |
| LaserJock | what if I just don't want IM's at the moment | 22:23 |
| kenvandine | well... what should happen when you get a message and you don't have an IM client running? | 22:23 |
| Zdra | LaserJock, in empathy you can go to discussion->quit | 22:23 |
| Zdra | that will disconnect your accounts | 22:23 |
| Zdra | or just set your presence offline | 22:23 |
| kenvandine | Zdra, he wants a different state | 22:23 |
| LaserJock | kenvandine: nothing | 22:23 |
| kenvandine | he wants to be online | 22:24 |
| kenvandine | but not get messages | 22:24 |
| Zdra | hidden? | 22:24 |
| LaserJock | I want to say "I don't want any IMs but I do want emails" | 22:24 |
| LaserJock | or "I want microblogging and IMs but no email" | 22:24 |
| kenvandine | LaserJock, offline doesn't make you stop getting emails :) | 22:24 |
| kenvandine | that presence in the status applet only affects your IM status | 22:24 |
| kenvandine | at least now | 22:24 |
| LaserJock | right, but how am I to know? that's what is confusing | 22:25 |
| LaserJock | each app acts differently | 22:25 |
| LaserJock | it's super confusing | 22:25 |
| kenvandine | LaserJock, perhaps when you quit empathy it should set you to offline? | 22:25 |
| kenvandine | and the session applet won't change that back unless you do it | 22:25 |
| LaserJock | but what if I don't want to be offline? | 22:25 |
| LaserJock | the thing is, "offline" is almost meaningless in this context | 22:26 |
| LaserJock | offline to what? | 22:26 |
| kenvandine | LaserJock, offline means you don't get messages | 22:26 |
| LaserJock | I just want a particular service to go away | 22:26 |
| kenvandine | yeah... so offline does that | 22:26 |
| LaserJock | but it will to all services, no? | 22:26 |
| kenvandine | IM | 22:26 |
| LaserJock | why only IM? | 22:27 |
| kenvandine | that is all the session applet sets now | 22:27 |
| LaserJock | well, but that's not the designed state of things is it? | 22:27 |
| kenvandine | we've talked about getting hints from that for other apps | 22:27 |
| kenvandine | so like gwibber might not send notifications if you have set offline or DND | 22:27 |
| kenvandine | it is | 22:27 |
| kenvandine | LaserJock, that was the design for the karmic cycle | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | ok, so what's the point of having it only interact with 1 service | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | 1 app even | 22:28 |
| kenvandine | not an app | 22:28 |
| kenvandine | a service | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | wouldn't it be better to just leave it alone? | 22:28 |
| kenvandine | it was a start | 22:28 |
| kenvandine | we want to use that to set some presence information/hints desktop wide | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | the inconsistency is worse than the problem trying to be fixed | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | ok | 22:28 |
| kenvandine | IM was the obvious start | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | *so* that goes back to my question | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | what if I only want a particular service "offline" | 22:28 |
| LaserJock | how will I do that? | 22:29 |
| kenvandine | you mean a single IM account? | 22:29 |
| LaserJock | no | 22:29 |
| LaserJock | say empathy, gwibber, and evolution are all using these hints or whatever | 22:29 |
| kenvandine | that is the only service affected by this | 22:29 |
| LaserJock | but you just said you hope more will use it | 22:29 |
| * kenvandine isn't a user experience guy :) | 22:29 | |
| kenvandine | yeah | 22:29 |
| LaserJock | so if they do | 22:29 |
| kenvandine | there haven't been completely designed yet | 22:30 |
| LaserJock | what will the meaning of "offline" be | 22:30 |
| kenvandine | that interaction hasn't been completely decided | 22:30 |
| LaserJock | then why is it implemented! | 22:30 |
| kenvandine | it isn't | 22:30 |
| kenvandine | this was to prevent a regression | 22:30 |
| LaserJock | then why does this bug exist? | 22:30 |
| kenvandine | the fast user switching applet in jaunty and eariler would set your IM status | 22:31 |
| kenvandine | for pidgin | 22:31 |
| LaserJock | right, I thought that was a bug, but whatever | 22:31 |
| kenvandine | the difference is this sets pidgin or mission-control depending on which is running and configured | 22:31 |
| LaserJock | ok, but the real issue here is that pidgin is a user-facing app | 22:31 |
| LaserJock | mission-control is ont | 22:31 |
| LaserJock | *not | 22:31 |
| kenvandine | yeah | 22:31 |
| LaserJock | and that's a huge difference in behavior | 22:32 |
| LaserJock | I didn't even know mission-control existed | 22:32 |
| * kenvandine does think most people want to set themselves as offline when they want to be offline | 22:32 | |
| LaserJock | all I knew was that I closed an app and then it kept reopening | 22:32 |
| kenvandine | yeah, it isn't obvious | 22:32 |
| kenvandine | but | 22:32 |
| LaserJock | when I want to be offline I close apps | 22:32 |
| kenvandine | note the status is still reported in the applet | 22:32 |
| kenvandine | so you can see you are still online | 22:33 |
| LaserJock | right | 22:33 |
| LaserJock | but it makes pretty much 0 sense to have to use an applet to actual "close" an app | 22:33 |
| * kenvandine thinks the concept of closing an app doesn't apply so much anymore | 22:34 | |
| LaserJock | why not? | 22:34 |
| kenvandine | but that is a much bigger discussion than i can get into now :) | 22:34 |
| LaserJock | I've yet to experience a person who does anything but close the app when they decide they are done | 22:34 |
| kenvandine | anyway, if you have suggestions on how that interaction can be better please provide that | 22:34 |
| kenvandine | so the UX folks can weigh in | 22:34 |
| kenvandine | for openoffice that makes sense | 22:35 |
| kenvandine | but for communications that is different | 22:35 |
| LaserJock | my suggestion would be to get rid of the session status thing until more than empath/mission control uses it | 22:35 |
| kenvandine | do you unplug your land line phone at home when you aren't using your phone? | 22:35 |
| LaserJock | no, but I hang up the headset! | 22:35 |
| kenvandine | it's the same thing | 22:35 |
| kenvandine | people can still call you | 22:35 |
| LaserJock | but if you don't want them to, what do you do? | 22:36 |
| kenvandine | you just ignore it :) | 22:36 |
| LaserJock | you turn the bugger off or unplug it | 22:36 |
| LaserJock | with a cell phone you turn it off | 22:36 |
| kenvandine | so on your desktop, you set your IM to offline | 22:36 |
| LaserJock | no, I close the IM app ;-) | 22:36 |
| * kenvandine needs to get back to this UDS session :) | 22:37 | |
| LaserJock | I mean, I understand where this is headed | 22:37 |
| kenvandine | LaserJock, please provide the feedback in the bug report though | 22:37 |
| LaserJock | but partial implementations are just more confusing | 22:37 |
| kenvandine | we definately want your feedback | 22:38 |
| LaserJock | kenvandine: I just dont' know how to give it, frankly | 22:39 |
| kenvandine | yeah... understand | 22:40 |
| LaserJock | Ubuntu is just really starting to feel far away from what I find personally usable | 22:40 |
| LaserJock | and since it seems to be by design I'm having problems trying to figure out how I can help | 22:40 |
| kenvandine | it isn't just ubuntu, it is more things are becoming more widely used across the desktop | 22:41 |
| kenvandine | which i think is awesome... the ability to leverage telepathy from other desktop apps is awesome | 22:42 |
| kenvandine | i think it is just good progress, evolution of desktop technologies | 22:42 |
| LaserJock | right | 22:42 |
| LaserJock | I've been using the desktop and file sharing | 22:42 |
| LaserJock | that's cool | 22:42 |
| LaserJock | but then empathy is really not a very good IM/IRC client for me | 22:43 |
| kenvandine | the thing is it needs to feel natural for you to set yourself as offline when you want to be offline | 22:43 |
| * kenvandine thinks it is a great IM client... but not a great irc client | 22:43 | |
| LaserJock | so I get frustrated when features are added but seemingly basic stuff stops realy working | 22:43 |
| kenvandine | LaserJock, but this isn't something that stopped working, it is that it requires different behavior | 22:43 |
| LaserJock | my essential problem with all this is that I have very different levels of offline and online | 22:44 |
| LaserJock | well, I currently don't trust that I can use Ubuntu to give a presentation | 22:44 |
| LaserJock | I used to, but not any more | 22:44 |
| kenvandine | why not? | 22:44 |
| kenvandine | set yourself to offline and quit gwibber | 22:44 |
| LaserJock | because frankly I'm afraid some notification is going to pop up | 22:44 |
| kenvandine | quitting gwibber does kill the service now | 22:44 |
| LaserJock | but I don't know where they come from | 22:44 |
| LaserJock | because I didn't know about those, maybe there are others | 22:45 |
| LaserJock | after talking with you guys for a while I feel like I understand it a bit better | 22:45 |
| LaserJock | but there were a few days there where I was kinda freaked out | 22:45 |
| kenvandine | i added that quit behavior based on our conversation :) | 22:45 |
| LaserJock | things were just popping up, and I couldn't tell why | 22:45 |
| kenvandine | and for the next cycle gwibber will take hints from your status | 22:45 |
| kenvandine | so not display notifications when you are offline or dnd | 22:46 |
| kenvandine | something like that | 22:46 |
| LaserJock | yeah, that's definitely better | 22:46 |
| kenvandine | we have been discussing that this week at uds | 22:46 |
| kenvandine | we will use mission-control for a hint | 22:47 |
| LaserJock | I just started feeling like I couldn't trust my computer | 22:47 |
| LaserJock | which sounds silly | 22:47 |
| LaserJock | but I was going around with ps aux for a while making sure I had everything closed before doing a demo or talk for instance | 22:47 |
| LaserJock | which seems like a step down in usability, at least IMO :-) | 22:48 |
| LaserJock | speaking of empathy as an IM client, does anybody know how to get it to have chats all in the same window? | 22:56 |
| TheMuso | pitti: Would derivatives be able to set an additional gconf path when they install a particular gdm theme package, or does the gdm package need to be extended to add another path? | 23:51 |
| pitti | TheMuso: I'm not entirely sure; I think we should discuss that with seb128 | 23:59 |
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