[04:47] <vuntz> didrocks: go to bed!
[04:47] <didrocks> vuntz: I'm in bed :)
[04:47] <didrocks> you?
[04:47] <vuntz> same :-)
[14:01] <baptistemm> Does anyone have an SSD disk here? I'm open to any comment or suggestion to replace the mechanic disk of my T61
[14:01] <baptistemm> Christmas is coming :)
[14:01] <ccooke> baptistemm: yes, I have one
[14:02] <ccooke> what are you after?
[14:02] <Laney> tasty, new tomboy
[14:03] <baptistemm> ccooke, what you mean? I head of the Intel x25-m, there were nice but it was one year ago, what hot now
[14:03] <baptistemm> +'s
[14:03] <ccooke> baptistemm: I have an Intel X25-M g2
[14:03] <baptistemm> s/ head/ heard
[14:03] <baptistemm> ah
[14:03] <ccooke> which are cheaper than the original x25-m and faster
[14:03] <baptistemm> ah nice
[14:04] <ccooke> They were still the best in terms of common usage a couple of months ago, when I bought mine
[14:04] <baptistemm> I don't doo a lot of I/O, I just want fast boot and quick app launching
[14:04] <baptistemm> :)
[14:04] <baptistemm> and no more trade-off about the capacity
[14:05] <baptistemm> I have 130 GB I guess in my laptop
[14:05] <ccooke> the intel -m series are artificially limited in sequential write speed to differentiate from the -e series (which are much more expensive). They're slower than other SSDs for that, but the fastest for the usage most people actually do: random read and write is *fast*.
[14:05] <ccooke> I have the 160GB SSD.
[14:05] <ccooke> There'll be a 320GB out (now or later, I forget).. and that should be faster than the 160
[14:06] <ccooke> generally with SSD, the more space you have the faster the disk
[14:06] <baptistemm> eh
[14:06] <baptistemm> is G2 == "postville" ? I see that when looking for X25
[14:07] <baptistemm> 160  is 379,98 €
[14:07] <ccooke> that's right
[14:09] <baptistemm> what a price for a hard drivce
[14:10] <ccooke> yes, but my laptop now boots in about 3-4 seconds :-)
[14:26] <pitti> kenvandine: yes, I did so yesterday (gwibber session)
[14:29] <pitti> TheMuso: alternatives are very brittle unfortunately; perhaps we can find a better way, like adding another gconf search path for gdm for derivative themes to stack on?
[14:30] <baptistemm> ccooke, that impressive
[14:40] <mannyv> ive filed a few sync requests for some desktop packages on LP. Is that all I need to do or is there some further step to get them processed?
[14:41] <mannyv> btw I was formerly serialorder, decided to follow suit and just use my name =P
[15:02] <TheMuso> pitti: Fair enough. If I manage to catch you at some point during the rest of this week, we can have a chat about it.
[16:32] <kenvandine> pitti, thx... i found it last night.  We couldn't find it in the summit system in the afternoon.
[22:08] <LaserJock> kenvandine: ping
[22:15] <kenvandine> LaserJock, pong
[22:15] <LaserJock> kenvandine: hi, I was looking at bug #444170 again
[22:16]  * kenvandine just commented on that :)
[22:16] <LaserJock> kenvandine: are there any plans for hooking up more services/apps to the session applet?
[22:17] <LaserJock> right now it seems like empathy's behavior is the odd one
[22:17] <kenvandine> not certain atm, i know there are some specs
[22:17] <kenvandine> well it isn't actually the session applet
[22:17] <kenvandine> it is what mission-control-5 does
[22:17] <kenvandine> however
[22:17] <kenvandine> it is possible that there is a way the applet could change the behavior
[22:17] <kenvandine> but i don't have ideas there
[22:18] <kenvandine> like how should the applet know if you want to be online or not?
[22:18] <LaserJock> well
[22:18] <LaserJock> I don't have a problem with the session applet
[22:18] <LaserJock> it's more  like a problem with mission control
[22:18] <kenvandine> i don't think so
[22:19] <kenvandine> i think that design is right
[22:19] <kenvandine> the question is can we be better at predicting when we should connect to it
[22:19] <LaserJock> I don't see how the design is really right though
[22:19] <LaserJock> it's opening up apps when I've closed them
[22:20] <kenvandine> if you set it to offline or dnd, it won't open them
[22:20] <kenvandine> LaserJock, sort of
[22:20] <LaserJock> ok, but that's the *only* app where that happens
[22:20] <LaserJock> it's unexpected behavior
[22:20] <kenvandine> empathy is a handler for incoming messages
[22:20] <kenvandine> so mission-control-5 opens empathy as the handler
[22:21] <kenvandine> i think the missing piece is telling MC what the right state is
[22:21] <LaserJock> well, for me the problem is that I can't tell individual services what state I want to be in
[22:21] <LaserJock> the "normal" way to do that is to open or close the app
[22:21] <kenvandine> yeah
[22:21] <LaserJock> but with empathy/mission-control that's no longer really the case
[22:22] <kenvandine> right, because you didn't close the program that gets the messages
[22:22] <kenvandine> you closed the current instance of the handler for those messages
[22:22] <LaserJock> right, but I didn't know I "opened" that app
[22:22] <kenvandine> perhaps when you quit empathy it should set your status as offline
[22:22] <LaserJock> so you see where it gets to be confusing
[22:23] <kenvandine> yeah
[22:23] <kenvandine> i agree it is confusing
[22:23] <LaserJock> but what if I'm not offline
[22:23] <LaserJock> what if I just don't want IM's at the moment
[22:23] <kenvandine> well... what should happen when you get a message and you don't have an IM client running?
[22:23] <Zdra> LaserJock, in empathy you can go to discussion->quit
[22:23] <Zdra> that will disconnect your accounts
[22:23] <Zdra> or just set your presence offline
[22:23] <kenvandine> Zdra, he wants a different state
[22:23] <LaserJock> kenvandine: nothing
[22:24] <kenvandine> he wants to be online
[22:24] <kenvandine> but not get messages
[22:24] <Zdra> hidden?
[22:24] <LaserJock> I want to say "I don't want any IMs but I do want emails"
[22:24] <LaserJock> or "I want microblogging and IMs but no email"
[22:24] <kenvandine> LaserJock, offline doesn't make you stop getting emails :)
[22:24] <kenvandine> that presence in the status applet only affects your IM status
[22:24] <kenvandine> at least now
[22:25] <LaserJock> right, but how am I to know? that's what is confusing
[22:25] <LaserJock> each app acts differently
[22:25] <LaserJock> it's super confusing
[22:25] <kenvandine> LaserJock, perhaps when you quit empathy it should set you to offline?
[22:25] <kenvandine> and the session applet won't change that back unless you do it
[22:25] <LaserJock> but what if I don't want to be offline?
[22:26] <LaserJock> the thing is, "offline" is almost meaningless in this context
[22:26] <LaserJock> offline to what?
[22:26] <kenvandine> LaserJock, offline means you don't get messages
[22:26] <LaserJock> I just want a particular service to go away
[22:26] <kenvandine> yeah... so offline does that
[22:26] <LaserJock> but it will to all services, no?
[22:26] <kenvandine> IM
[22:27] <LaserJock> why only IM?
[22:27] <kenvandine> that is all the session applet sets now
[22:27] <LaserJock> well, but that's not the designed state of things is it?
[22:27] <kenvandine> we've talked about getting hints from that for other apps
[22:27] <kenvandine> so like gwibber might not send notifications if you have set offline or DND
[22:27] <kenvandine> it is
[22:28] <kenvandine> LaserJock, that was the design for the karmic cycle
[22:28] <LaserJock> ok, so what's the point of having it only interact with 1 service
[22:28] <LaserJock> 1 app even
[22:28] <kenvandine> not an app
[22:28] <kenvandine> a service
[22:28] <LaserJock> wouldn't it be better to just leave it alone?
[22:28] <kenvandine> it was a start
[22:28] <kenvandine> we want to use that to set some presence information/hints desktop wide
[22:28] <LaserJock> the inconsistency is worse than the problem trying to be fixed
[22:28] <LaserJock> ok
[22:28] <kenvandine> IM was the obvious start
[22:28] <LaserJock> *so* that goes back to my question
[22:28] <LaserJock> what if I only want a particular service "offline"
[22:29] <LaserJock> how will I do that?
[22:29] <kenvandine> you mean a single IM account?
[22:29] <LaserJock> no
[22:29] <LaserJock> say empathy, gwibber, and evolution are all using these hints or whatever
[22:29] <kenvandine> that is the only service affected by this
[22:29] <LaserJock> but you just said you hope more will use it
[22:29]  * kenvandine isn't a user experience guy :)
[22:29] <kenvandine> yeah
[22:29] <LaserJock> so if they do
[22:30] <kenvandine> there haven't been completely designed yet
[22:30] <LaserJock> what will the meaning of "offline" be
[22:30] <kenvandine> that interaction hasn't been completely decided
[22:30] <LaserJock> then why is it implemented!
[22:30] <kenvandine> it isn't
[22:30] <kenvandine> this was to prevent a regression
[22:30] <LaserJock> then why does this bug exist?
[22:31] <kenvandine> the fast user switching applet in jaunty and eariler would set your IM status
[22:31] <kenvandine> for pidgin
[22:31] <LaserJock> right, I thought that was a bug, but whatever
[22:31] <kenvandine> the difference is this sets pidgin or mission-control depending on which is running and configured
[22:31] <LaserJock> ok, but the real issue here is that pidgin is a user-facing app
[22:31] <LaserJock> mission-control is ont
[22:31] <LaserJock> *not
[22:31] <kenvandine> yeah
[22:32] <LaserJock> and that's a huge difference in behavior
[22:32] <LaserJock> I didn't even know mission-control existed
[22:32]  * kenvandine does think most people want to set themselves as offline when they want to be offline
[22:32] <LaserJock> all I knew was that I closed an app and then it kept reopening
[22:32] <kenvandine> yeah, it isn't obvious
[22:32] <kenvandine> but
[22:32] <LaserJock> when I want to be offline I close apps
[22:32] <kenvandine> note the status is still reported in the applet
[22:33] <kenvandine> so you can see you are still online
[22:33] <LaserJock> right
[22:33] <LaserJock> but it makes pretty much 0 sense to have to use an applet to actual "close" an app
[22:34]  * kenvandine thinks the concept of closing an app doesn't apply so much anymore
[22:34] <LaserJock> why not?
[22:34] <kenvandine> but that is a much bigger discussion than i can get into now :)
[22:34] <LaserJock> I've yet to experience a person who does anything but close the app when they decide they are done
[22:34] <kenvandine> anyway, if you have suggestions on how that interaction can be better please provide that
[22:34] <kenvandine> so the UX folks can weigh in
[22:35] <kenvandine> for openoffice that makes sense
[22:35] <kenvandine> but for communications that is different
[22:35] <LaserJock> my suggestion would be to get rid of the session status thing until more than empath/mission control uses it
[22:35] <kenvandine> do you unplug your land line phone at home when you aren't using your phone?
[22:35] <LaserJock> no, but I hang up the headset!
[22:35] <kenvandine> it's the same thing
[22:35] <kenvandine> people can still call you
[22:36] <LaserJock> but if you don't want them to, what do you do?
[22:36] <kenvandine> you just ignore it :)
[22:36] <LaserJock> you turn the bugger off or unplug it
[22:36] <LaserJock> with a cell phone you turn it off
[22:36] <kenvandine> so on your desktop, you set your IM to offline
[22:36] <LaserJock> no, I close the IM app ;-)
[22:37]  * kenvandine needs to get back to this UDS session :)  
[22:37] <LaserJock> I mean, I understand where this is headed
[22:37] <kenvandine> LaserJock, please provide the feedback in the bug report though
[22:37] <LaserJock> but partial implementations are just more confusing
[22:38] <kenvandine> we definately want your feedback
[22:39] <LaserJock> kenvandine: I just dont' know how to give it, frankly
[22:40] <kenvandine> yeah... understand
[22:40] <LaserJock> Ubuntu is just really starting to feel far away from what I find personally usable
[22:40] <LaserJock> and since it seems to be by design I'm having problems trying to figure out how I can help
[22:41] <kenvandine> it isn't just ubuntu, it is more things are becoming more widely used across the desktop
[22:42] <kenvandine> which i think is awesome... the ability to leverage telepathy from other desktop apps is awesome
[22:42] <kenvandine> i think it is just good progress, evolution of desktop technologies
[22:42] <LaserJock> right
[22:42] <LaserJock> I've been using the desktop and file sharing
[22:42] <LaserJock> that's cool
[22:43] <LaserJock> but then empathy is really not a very good IM/IRC client for me
[22:43] <kenvandine> the thing is it needs to feel natural for you to set yourself as offline when you want to be offline
[22:43]  * kenvandine thinks it is a great IM client... but not a great irc client
[22:43] <LaserJock> so I get frustrated when features are added but seemingly basic stuff stops realy working
[22:43] <kenvandine> LaserJock, but this isn't something that stopped working, it is that it requires different behavior
[22:44] <LaserJock> my essential problem with all this is that I have very different levels of offline and online
[22:44] <LaserJock> well, I currently don't trust that I can use Ubuntu to give a presentation
[22:44] <LaserJock> I used to, but not any more
[22:44] <kenvandine> why not?
[22:44] <kenvandine> set yourself to offline and quit gwibber
[22:44] <LaserJock> because frankly I'm afraid some notification is going to pop up
[22:44] <kenvandine> quitting gwibber does kill the service now
[22:44] <LaserJock> but I don't know where they come from
[22:45] <LaserJock> because I didn't know about those, maybe there are others
[22:45] <LaserJock> after talking with you guys for a while I feel like I understand it a bit better
[22:45] <LaserJock> but there were a few days there where I was kinda freaked out
[22:45] <kenvandine> i added that quit behavior based on our conversation :)
[22:45] <LaserJock> things were just popping up, and I couldn't tell why
[22:45] <kenvandine> and for the next cycle gwibber will take hints from your status
[22:46] <kenvandine> so not display notifications when you are offline or dnd
[22:46] <kenvandine> something like that
[22:46] <LaserJock> yeah, that's definitely better
[22:46] <kenvandine> we have been discussing that this week at uds
[22:47] <kenvandine> we will use mission-control for a hint
[22:47] <LaserJock> I just started feeling like I couldn't trust my computer
[22:47] <LaserJock> which sounds silly
[22:47] <LaserJock> but I was going around with ps aux for a while making sure I had everything closed before doing a demo or talk for instance
[22:48] <LaserJock> which seems like a step down in usability, at least IMO :-)
[22:56] <LaserJock> speaking of empathy as an IM client, does anybody know how to get it to have chats all in the same window?
[23:51] <TheMuso> pitti: Would derivatives be able to set an additional gconf path when they install a particular gdm theme package, or does the gdm package need to be extended to add another path?
[23:59] <pitti> TheMuso: I'm not entirely sure; I think we should discuss that with seb128