=== onestone_ is now known as onestone [04:47] didrocks: go to bed! [04:47] vuntz: I'm in bed :) [04:47] you? [04:47] same :-) === YDdraigGoch is now known as WelshDragon === asac_ is now known as asac [14:01] Does anyone have an SSD disk here? I'm open to any comment or suggestion to replace the mechanic disk of my T61 [14:01] Christmas is coming :) [14:01] baptistemm: yes, I have one [14:02] what are you after? [14:02] tasty, new tomboy [14:03] ccooke, what you mean? I head of the Intel x25-m, there were nice but it was one year ago, what hot now [14:03] +'s [14:03] baptistemm: I have an Intel X25-M g2 [14:03] s/ head/ heard [14:03] ah [14:03] which are cheaper than the original x25-m and faster [14:03] ah nice [14:04] They were still the best in terms of common usage a couple of months ago, when I bought mine [14:04] I don't doo a lot of I/O, I just want fast boot and quick app launching [14:04] :) [14:04] and no more trade-off about the capacity [14:05] I have 130 GB I guess in my laptop [14:05] the intel -m series are artificially limited in sequential write speed to differentiate from the -e series (which are much more expensive). They're slower than other SSDs for that, but the fastest for the usage most people actually do: random read and write is *fast*. [14:05] I have the 160GB SSD. [14:05] There'll be a 320GB out (now or later, I forget).. and that should be faster than the 160 [14:06] generally with SSD, the more space you have the faster the disk [14:06] eh [14:06] is G2 == "postville" ? I see that when looking for X25 [14:07] 160 is 379,98 € [14:07] that's right [14:09] what a price for a hard drivce [14:10] yes, but my laptop now boots in about 3-4 seconds :-) [14:26] kenvandine: yes, I did so yesterday (gwibber session) [14:29] TheMuso: alternatives are very brittle unfortunately; perhaps we can find a better way, like adding another gconf search path for gdm for derivative themes to stack on? [14:30] ccooke, that impressive [14:40] ive filed a few sync requests for some desktop packages on LP. Is that all I need to do or is there some further step to get them processed? [14:41] btw I was formerly serialorder, decided to follow suit and just use my name =P [15:02] pitti: Fair enough. If I manage to catch you at some point during the rest of this week, we can have a chat about it. [16:32] pitti, thx... i found it last night. We couldn't find it in the summit system in the afternoon. === hggdh_ is now known as hggdh === robbiew1 is now known as robbiew [22:08] kenvandine: ping [22:15] LaserJock, pong [22:15] kenvandine: hi, I was looking at bug #444170 again [22:15] Launchpad bug 444170 in indicator-session "empathy started automatically on incoming message" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444170 [22:16] * kenvandine just commented on that :) [22:16] kenvandine: are there any plans for hooking up more services/apps to the session applet? [22:17] right now it seems like empathy's behavior is the odd one [22:17] not certain atm, i know there are some specs [22:17] well it isn't actually the session applet [22:17] it is what mission-control-5 does [22:17] however [22:17] it is possible that there is a way the applet could change the behavior [22:17] but i don't have ideas there [22:18] like how should the applet know if you want to be online or not? [22:18] well [22:18] I don't have a problem with the session applet [22:18] it's more like a problem with mission control [22:18] i don't think so [22:19] i think that design is right [22:19] the question is can we be better at predicting when we should connect to it [22:19] I don't see how the design is really right though [22:19] it's opening up apps when I've closed them [22:20] if you set it to offline or dnd, it won't open them [22:20] LaserJock, sort of [22:20] ok, but that's the *only* app where that happens [22:20] it's unexpected behavior [22:20] empathy is a handler for incoming messages [22:20] so mission-control-5 opens empathy as the handler [22:21] i think the missing piece is telling MC what the right state is [22:21] well, for me the problem is that I can't tell individual services what state I want to be in [22:21] the "normal" way to do that is to open or close the app [22:21] yeah [22:21] but with empathy/mission-control that's no longer really the case [22:22] right, because you didn't close the program that gets the messages [22:22] you closed the current instance of the handler for those messages [22:22] right, but I didn't know I "opened" that app [22:22] perhaps when you quit empathy it should set your status as offline [22:22] so you see where it gets to be confusing [22:23] yeah [22:23] i agree it is confusing [22:23] but what if I'm not offline [22:23] what if I just don't want IM's at the moment [22:23] well... what should happen when you get a message and you don't have an IM client running? [22:23] LaserJock, in empathy you can go to discussion->quit [22:23] that will disconnect your accounts [22:23] or just set your presence offline [22:23] Zdra, he wants a different state [22:23] kenvandine: nothing [22:24] he wants to be online [22:24] but not get messages [22:24] hidden? [22:24] I want to say "I don't want any IMs but I do want emails" [22:24] or "I want microblogging and IMs but no email" [22:24] LaserJock, offline doesn't make you stop getting emails :) [22:24] that presence in the status applet only affects your IM status [22:24] at least now [22:25] right, but how am I to know? that's what is confusing [22:25] each app acts differently [22:25] it's super confusing [22:25] LaserJock, perhaps when you quit empathy it should set you to offline? [22:25] and the session applet won't change that back unless you do it [22:25] but what if I don't want to be offline? [22:26] the thing is, "offline" is almost meaningless in this context [22:26] offline to what? [22:26] LaserJock, offline means you don't get messages [22:26] I just want a particular service to go away [22:26] yeah... so offline does that [22:26] but it will to all services, no? [22:26] IM [22:27] why only IM? [22:27] that is all the session applet sets now [22:27] well, but that's not the designed state of things is it? [22:27] we've talked about getting hints from that for other apps [22:27] so like gwibber might not send notifications if you have set offline or DND [22:27] it is [22:28] LaserJock, that was the design for the karmic cycle [22:28] ok, so what's the point of having it only interact with 1 service [22:28] 1 app even [22:28] not an app [22:28] a service [22:28] wouldn't it be better to just leave it alone? [22:28] it was a start [22:28] we want to use that to set some presence information/hints desktop wide [22:28] the inconsistency is worse than the problem trying to be fixed [22:28] ok [22:28] IM was the obvious start [22:28] *so* that goes back to my question [22:28] what if I only want a particular service "offline" [22:29] how will I do that? [22:29] you mean a single IM account? [22:29] no [22:29] say empathy, gwibber, and evolution are all using these hints or whatever [22:29] that is the only service affected by this [22:29] but you just said you hope more will use it [22:29] * kenvandine isn't a user experience guy :) [22:29] yeah [22:29] so if they do [22:30] there haven't been completely designed yet [22:30] what will the meaning of "offline" be [22:30] that interaction hasn't been completely decided [22:30] then why is it implemented! [22:30] it isn't [22:30] this was to prevent a regression [22:30] then why does this bug exist? [22:31] the fast user switching applet in jaunty and eariler would set your IM status [22:31] for pidgin [22:31] right, I thought that was a bug, but whatever [22:31] the difference is this sets pidgin or mission-control depending on which is running and configured [22:31] ok, but the real issue here is that pidgin is a user-facing app [22:31] mission-control is ont [22:31] *not [22:31] yeah [22:32] and that's a huge difference in behavior [22:32] I didn't even know mission-control existed [22:32] * kenvandine does think most people want to set themselves as offline when they want to be offline [22:32] all I knew was that I closed an app and then it kept reopening [22:32] yeah, it isn't obvious [22:32] but [22:32] when I want to be offline I close apps [22:32] note the status is still reported in the applet [22:33] so you can see you are still online [22:33] right [22:33] but it makes pretty much 0 sense to have to use an applet to actual "close" an app [22:34] * kenvandine thinks the concept of closing an app doesn't apply so much anymore [22:34] why not? [22:34] but that is a much bigger discussion than i can get into now :) [22:34] I've yet to experience a person who does anything but close the app when they decide they are done [22:34] anyway, if you have suggestions on how that interaction can be better please provide that [22:34] so the UX folks can weigh in [22:35] for openoffice that makes sense [22:35] but for communications that is different [22:35] my suggestion would be to get rid of the session status thing until more than empath/mission control uses it [22:35] do you unplug your land line phone at home when you aren't using your phone? [22:35] no, but I hang up the headset! [22:35] it's the same thing [22:35] people can still call you [22:36] but if you don't want them to, what do you do? [22:36] you just ignore it :) [22:36] you turn the bugger off or unplug it [22:36] with a cell phone you turn it off [22:36] so on your desktop, you set your IM to offline [22:36] no, I close the IM app ;-) [22:37] * kenvandine needs to get back to this UDS session :) [22:37] I mean, I understand where this is headed [22:37] LaserJock, please provide the feedback in the bug report though [22:37] but partial implementations are just more confusing [22:38] we definately want your feedback [22:39] kenvandine: I just dont' know how to give it, frankly [22:40] yeah... understand [22:40] Ubuntu is just really starting to feel far away from what I find personally usable [22:40] and since it seems to be by design I'm having problems trying to figure out how I can help [22:41] it isn't just ubuntu, it is more things are becoming more widely used across the desktop [22:42] which i think is awesome... the ability to leverage telepathy from other desktop apps is awesome [22:42] i think it is just good progress, evolution of desktop technologies [22:42] right [22:42] I've been using the desktop and file sharing [22:42] that's cool [22:43] but then empathy is really not a very good IM/IRC client for me [22:43] the thing is it needs to feel natural for you to set yourself as offline when you want to be offline [22:43] * kenvandine thinks it is a great IM client... but not a great irc client [22:43] so I get frustrated when features are added but seemingly basic stuff stops realy working [22:43] LaserJock, but this isn't something that stopped working, it is that it requires different behavior [22:44] my essential problem with all this is that I have very different levels of offline and online [22:44] well, I currently don't trust that I can use Ubuntu to give a presentation [22:44] I used to, but not any more [22:44] why not? [22:44] set yourself to offline and quit gwibber [22:44] because frankly I'm afraid some notification is going to pop up [22:44] quitting gwibber does kill the service now [22:44] but I don't know where they come from [22:45] because I didn't know about those, maybe there are others [22:45] after talking with you guys for a while I feel like I understand it a bit better [22:45] but there were a few days there where I was kinda freaked out [22:45] i added that quit behavior based on our conversation :) [22:45] things were just popping up, and I couldn't tell why [22:45] and for the next cycle gwibber will take hints from your status [22:46] so not display notifications when you are offline or dnd [22:46] something like that [22:46] yeah, that's definitely better [22:46] we have been discussing that this week at uds [22:47] we will use mission-control for a hint [22:47] I just started feeling like I couldn't trust my computer [22:47] which sounds silly [22:47] but I was going around with ps aux for a while making sure I had everything closed before doing a demo or talk for instance [22:48] which seems like a step down in usability, at least IMO :-) [22:56] speaking of empathy as an IM client, does anybody know how to get it to have chats all in the same window? [23:51] pitti: Would derivatives be able to set an additional gconf path when they install a particular gdm theme package, or does the gdm package need to be extended to add another path? [23:59] TheMuso: I'm not entirely sure; I think we should discuss that with seb128