=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
jdongkees / pitti: Now this is an interesting one....04:51
jdongbtrfs snapshots can bypass AppArmor restrictions04:51
jdongi.e. log into a GDM guest account04:51
jdongcd /tmp04:51
jdongbtrfs -s test /04:51
jdongbtrfsctl, rather04:51
jdongnow, /tmp/test provides a apparmor-unrestricted look into /04:52
* Laibsch would like to ask for input on how to progress with bug 42091805:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 420918 in isdnutils "please update libcapi" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42091805:46
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
=== jdong_ is now known as jdong
=== YDdraigGoch is now known as WelshDragon
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
bluefoxicyso, for the past month or so Ubuntu has been running without cutting over 50% of my ram11:46
bluefoxicyusually I'm 4 gigs deep and about a gig into swap.11:46
bluefoxicyWhat did you guys do?11:46
highvoltagebluefoxicy: heh, I keep running into users who say things like "I'm running Ubuntu 5.10 because my hardware is old so I'm running an older system that should be faster"11:47
bluefoxicyhighvoltage:  lol... well the newer versions were eating like 50 times more ram11:47
highvoltagebluefoxicy: I don't know, I think they're getting more efficient11:48
bluefoxicyI remember always having gimp, firefox, thunderbird, gaim, xchat, a terminal, and rhythmbox running, and needing 512M because I'd be 400MB into RAM all the time11:48
highvoltagebluefoxicy: gnome-terminal uses much less memory per tab than it used to, and so does firefox and openoffice11:48
bluefoxicynow I don't have gimp open like ever, yet I was always burried 4 gigs deep11:48
bluefoxicyand now, about 2 gigs, with very little used as system cache11:48
highvoltagebluefoxicy: my main desktop has 5GB RAM and for normal use I don't ever go above 1.5GB11:49
bluefoxicyI mean, it would make sense if half my ram was ate by cache and buffers; unfortunately it was more like 20 megs went to disk cache11:49
highvoltageever/much :)11:49
bluefoxicyand the rest was all resident program memory11:49
bluefoxicyhighvoltage:  yeah, mine's doing that now, I'm trying to figure why.11:49
bluefoxicygnome-terminal isn't being crazy huh.  Firefox seems to have huge RAM usage and it gets laggy (if I type I have to wait 1 second between each letter appearing,and the whole program freezes until it's caught up to me)11:50
bluefoxicyrestarting firefox fixes that for a couple hours though.11:50
highvoltagebluefoxicy: yeah I had that too :(11:50
highvoltagebluefoxicy: I've switched to chromium now and it's way faster than firefox and it doesn't do that laggy thing11:50
bluefoxicyit's a bug in xulrunner11:50
bluefoxicythunderbird does it  too.11:51
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=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
pittijdong: ugh, interesting; this sounds very much related to apparmor's inability to work with aufs, too; it only seems to work on "real iron" file systems14:25
pittijdong: could you please file this as an apparmor bug?14:25
jdongsure thing14:25
jdongseeing that btrfs seems close to being around the corner... it'd be good to get this on the radar screen14:26
jdongit is somewhat "surprising" behavior that the snapshotting ioctl is accessible by unprivileged users14:26
pittithat, too; I guess it expects file system permissions to be respected14:27
jdong*nods* indeed14:27
jdonggiven that it's not a terribly expensive operation and UNIX DAC wise doesn't elevate any access... I suppose in that way it's "safe"14:28
pittiwhich is not really unreasonable, of course14:28
jdongpitti: ok, filed as bug 48478614:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 484786 in apparmor "Too easy to circumvent AppArmor using btrfs snapshots" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48478614:32
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
robbiewslangasek: the dkms issue was related to VirtualBox.... vboxdrv (3.0.8) failing to build...forgot I had VirtualBox installed :/16:10
robbiewso not THAT big of a deal right now16:10
robbiewKeybuk: shouldn't a dkms build failure be reported to the users during boot?16:11
Keybukrobbiew: no, but apport could popup after login16:13
robbiewright...sorry...that's what I meant16:13
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
davidboyIs it possible to download Lucid before Alpha 1?17:03
smosersoren, is there a general "vmbuilder improvements" session? or one that i missed.17:08
macosoren: wouln't it make sense to add lucid to karmic's ubuntu-vm-builder "suite" option so that karmic users can test it in a vm without having to do it as a karmic vm then do-release-upgrade?17:24
macois that SRUable or would it require backports or...?17:24
ebroderIsn't there usually an SRU for debootstrap?17:24
ebroderHmm...I guess it's always done as a backport17:25
Riddellasac: will you do the spec for desktop-lucid-firefox-kde-integration or shall I?17:33
=== markus_ is now known as thekorn
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kirklandKeybuk: okay, you're not the only one http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=126722420:09
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
jdongheh in general, how do you in Linux tell ACPI to keep a PCI device on during suspend?20:19
jdongWindows device manager has a per-device checkbox for doing that20:19
jdongI'm assuming that translates to some sort of ACPI voodoo20:19
=== robbiew1 is now known as robbiew
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
a6help me thanks22:29
a6many people have concernerd22:30
mneptoka6: have you filed a bug regarding this issue on Launchpad?22:31
mneptokmerci bien22:32
superm1_pitti, are you available right now, or hiding busy in a session?22:32
Keybukmpt: my favourite thing22:45
Keybuk"[icon] There are wireless networks available.  Click this icon to see them"22:45
mptI like you too, Keybuk22:46
Keybukfloating in the middle of the screen22:46
Keybukif I try and click the icon, it hides on me22:46
Keybukand there's no other copy of that icon anywhere else on my computer22:46
mpthm, missing patch in nm-applet22:46
Keybuksurely it should just popup the window with the wireless networks22:47
Keybukupdate-manager style?22:47
mptthat would make sense22:47
mptthere doesn't seem to be a bug report on this22:48
KeybukI was going to tweet about it instead22:48
mptOn the grounds that if people whine long enough about us using a proprietary bug tracker, Twitter will eventually be open-sourced?22:49
mptKeybuk, did you happen to grab a screenshot? I haven't seen that myself so I'm uncomfortable reporting it22:50
Keybukmpt: make it forget ibahn and ubuntu22:51
Keybukthen toggle your wireless off and on again22:51
jdongwhy was it decided that notify bubbles act like the ghost characters in nintendo video games??22:52
jdongthat's the best metaphor I can come up with for them!22:52
jdongand just like those things, it's frustrating figuring out how to get rid of them.22:53
jdongI haven't figured out how to bounce eggs off the sides of the display yet :(22:53
mptKeybuk, ok, I'll try that in a bit, thanks22:55
* mpt is momentarily distracted by reporting bugs about Launchpad itself22:56
chrisccoulsonhello Laney!23:00
Laneygreetings sir!23:00
Laneyany sign of $baby yet?23:01
chrisccoulsonshe arrived yesterday :)23:01
=== Hellow_ is now known as Hellow
Laneyoh wow, congratulations23:01
TheMusochrisccoulson: Congratulations.23:01
chrisccoulsoni had a very short day at work yesterday!23:02
Laneynow the real fun begins23:02
chrisccoulsonyeah! although, they're still both in hospital at the moment23:02
chrisccoulsonso i have another night of peace ;)23:03
lfuser-741hello anyone there ?23:06
Laneyhah, you better savour it :)23:07
LaneyGood job you didn't go to Texas then eh?23:07
lfuser-741hey - can anyone help me ? I am newbie23:07
chrisccoulsonyeah, it's a good job i'm not there23:07
ajmitchchrisccoulson: congratulations23:07
chrisccoulsonajmitch - thanks:)23:08
chrisccoulsonand thanks TheMuso too23:08
lfuser-741looks like everyine is busy in there own world - no chance of any help here23:09
chrisccoulsonlfuser-741 - you want #ubuntu for support23:09
lfuser-741thanks chris for your reply - yes - need a little bit help23:10
Laneybed time anyway23:10
Laneygoodnight all23:10
chrisccoulson'night Laney23:10
ebroderlfuser-741: It's generally considered bad etiquette in IRC to ask permission to ask your question, But this is still the wrong channel23:10
maxbjames_w: Hi, do you have a moment to talk about a tricky UDD merge?23:10
james_wmaxb: I'm almost out of battery, so have just a few minutes23:11
lfuser-741ok = chris - my first time in this forum - can your please guide me to the write forum where some one may be able to help me ?23:12
maxbjames_w: ok, I'll keep it short: are there known problems when uploads to experimental are involved23:12
james_wno known issues23:13
james_wdoesn't mean there aren't any, what are you seeing?23:13
lfuser-741ebroder - which channel should I go for any help ?23:13
ebroderlfuser-741: #ubuntu. This is #ubuntu-devel. Go to #ubuntu23:13
lfuser-741ok - thanks ebroder - will head that way. your guidance much appreciated23:14
Lindowshope this is he right channel finally =)23:14
maxbjames_w: After a merge from experimental->karmic, the subsequent upload to karmic which was a merge from unstable didn't have ancestry recorded as such.23:15
LindowsI just ran a md5sum comparing a backup of a windowsXP virtual image (30GB+, ext3) against what it wrote to my local drive (ext4) and the md5sums don't match...23:15
maxbThis resulted in hilarity like "bzr merge-package" attempting to re-merge already-included changes, and all the file-id mess in the world23:15
Lindowsis there a patch coming?23:15
maxbjames_w: Ok, since there are no outstanding issues for you to point me to, I shall chronicle the mess to ubuntu-distributed-devel@23:16
jdongLindows: I think that's a known bug.23:16
Lindowsis there a patch coming?23:16
jdongbug 453579 I believe is the right one23:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 453579 in ubuntu-release-notes "in-place corruption of large files *without fsck or reboot* reported with linux 2.6.31-14.46 on ext4" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45357923:16
maxbjames_w: Oh, one last question - if an import has wrong history, is the preferred approach to do some fixup commits, or is binning the existing branch an re-importing an option?23:17
jdongLindows: to be honest I don't think anyone actually knows what the real cause of it is.23:17
Lindowsokay, a better question, is it coming soon enough that I can wait it out or should I reinstall the OS using ext3 because it'll be a month or more?23:17
jdongthe Karmic release notes did mention this bug...23:17
jdongit appears to be rare and only dealing with large files23:18
jdongso yeah, for the time being if you do a lot of work with large files, good idea to not use ext4 :-/23:18
james_wmaxb: Thanks, mail is the best way, thanks for investigating. As for wrong history, I'd have to think about it23:18
jdongmy personal opinion is that XFS is one of the best behaving filesystems to put VM images on23:18
james_wpointers to such branches on the mailing list appreciated23:18
Lindowswell, I mean, definate "a lot", any video game file is > 512MB23:18
jdongbut others will certainly disagree :)23:18
jdongLindows: yeah that's one of the problems.23:18
maxbjames_w: Actually I guess, to make this work, you'd have to replace history in sid branch too, so I guess a history rewrite would be ... complex and unwelcome.23:19
jdongnobody really knows what "big" actually means :)23:19
jdongit's one of those magical mystery voodoo bugs.23:19
Lindowswell, crap23:19
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
Lindowsguess I'm reinstalling23:19
jdongyeah sorry about your luck...23:20
slangasekLindows: the original bug reporter says there's a patch which fixes it; I'm going to try to escalate that to the next kernel SRU23:20
Lindowsawesome, thank you23:20
jdongand I hope the said patch will fix it :)23:20
slangasek(so that I can stop getting lots of useless and irrelevant bug mail from people who have *none of the relevant symptoms*)23:20
jdongslangasek: yeah I think I hit the reset button yesterday and..23:20
slangasekjdong: Keybuk has already reported that it *does* fix it on his system; and almost no one else has actually reproduced it reliably23:21
slangasekjdong: so are you here?23:21
jdongthe most amusing part about that bug was the comment someone made about iterative md5summing "converging" on some value :)23:21
jdongslangasek: sadly I am not :(23:21
jdongas much as I'd love to be there right now, schoolwork requires me to stay planted.23:22
LindowsI guess I'll wait it out then, whenever the patch hits I can easily test it23:22
Lindowsthe update23:23
Lindowsthank you for all your help23:23
slangasekjdong: doh23:29
ebroderYeah, it turns out that the UDS scheduling is really crappy for students23:30
ebroderBecause November and April are always OH CRAP CRUNCH TIME months23:30
ebroderErr, I guess it's November and May. May being worse, of course23:31
jdongheh indeed23:32
jdonghell even the one that was on MIT, I literally could not find the time to go to23:32
slangasekjdong: solution: stop studying, join the Free Software career track23:34
jdonghahaha :)23:34
chrisccoulsonjdong - what are you studying?23:36
jdongchrisccoulson: Electrical Engineering and Computer Science :)23:36
chrisccoulsonjdong - i did straight electronics engineering23:37
ebroderslangasek: Where were you with that advice 3 years ago when I started? Now it just doesn't seem worth the trouble :-P23:37
chrisccoulsonbut i wish i did more of the computer science bit ;)23:37
jdongchrisccoulson: cool; I personally have a slightly bitter relationship with the EE side of myself ;-)23:37
jdongbut it exists enough that I don't want to ignore it completely.23:37
chrisccoulsonjdong - me too. i really enjoyed studying it, but i absolutely hate working in electronics23:37
jdongthe electric machines (i.e. motors / electromagnetics) and control systems side of me does manifest itself from time to time....23:38
jdongbut yeah by far I prefer to be on the CS and software engineering sides of things23:38
jdongmaybe because there's less ways to set the room on fire ;-)23:39
chrisccoulsonoh, i enjoy setting the room on fire, but there's not much chance of doing that in my job23:39
chrisccoulsoni definately wish i'd done software instead!23:39
* ajmitch thought that setting the room on fire was one of the perks23:40
chrisccoulsonajmitch - i thought that too ;)23:41
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
donpdonpwhat .h file declares DBUS_BUS_ACTIVATION ? i have various dbus -dev packages installed but "grep -r DBUS_BUS_ACTIVATION /usr/include/dbus-1.0/" turns up nothing.23:42
jdongajmitch: if it's a "don't ask don't tell" fire, I'm all for that!23:44
chrisccoulsonperhaps if i worked on something which wasn't safety critical, then there'd be more chance of fire :)23:45

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