[04:51] <jdong> kees / pitti: Now this is an interesting one....
[04:51] <jdong> btrfs snapshots can bypass AppArmor restrictions
[04:51] <jdong> i.e. log into a GDM guest account
[04:51] <jdong> cd /tmp
[04:51] <jdong> btrfs -s test /
[04:51] <jdong> btrfsctl, rather
[04:52] <jdong> now, /tmp/test provides a apparmor-unrestricted look into /
[05:46]  * Laibsch would like to ask for input on how to progress with bug 420918
[11:46] <bluefoxicy> so, for the past month or so Ubuntu has been running without cutting over 50% of my ram
[11:46] <bluefoxicy> usually I'm 4 gigs deep and about a gig into swap.
[11:46] <bluefoxicy> What did you guys do?
[11:47] <highvoltage> bluefoxicy: heh, I keep running into users who say things like "I'm running Ubuntu 5.10 because my hardware is old so I'm running an older system that should be faster"
[11:47] <bluefoxicy> highvoltage:  lol... well the newer versions were eating like 50 times more ram
[11:48] <highvoltage> bluefoxicy: I don't know, I think they're getting more efficient
[11:48] <bluefoxicy> I remember always having gimp, firefox, thunderbird, gaim, xchat, a terminal, and rhythmbox running, and needing 512M because I'd be 400MB into RAM all the time
[11:48] <highvoltage> bluefoxicy: gnome-terminal uses much less memory per tab than it used to, and so does firefox and openoffice
[11:48] <bluefoxicy> now I don't have gimp open like ever, yet I was always burried 4 gigs deep
[11:48] <bluefoxicy> and now, about 2 gigs, with very little used as system cache
[11:49] <highvoltage> bluefoxicy: my main desktop has 5GB RAM and for normal use I don't ever go above 1.5GB
[11:49] <bluefoxicy> I mean, it would make sense if half my ram was ate by cache and buffers; unfortunately it was more like 20 megs went to disk cache
[11:49] <highvoltage> ever/much :)
[11:49] <bluefoxicy> and the rest was all resident program memory
[11:49] <bluefoxicy> highvoltage:  yeah, mine's doing that now, I'm trying to figure why.
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> gnome-terminal isn't being crazy huh.  Firefox seems to have huge RAM usage and it gets laggy (if I type I have to wait 1 second between each letter appearing,and the whole program freezes until it's caught up to me)
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> restarting firefox fixes that for a couple hours though.
[11:50] <highvoltage> bluefoxicy: yeah I had that too :(
[11:50] <highvoltage> bluefoxicy: I've switched to chromium now and it's way faster than firefox and it doesn't do that laggy thing
[11:50] <bluefoxicy> it's a bug in xulrunner
[11:51] <bluefoxicy> thunderbird does it  too.
[14:25] <pitti> jdong: ugh, interesting; this sounds very much related to apparmor's inability to work with aufs, too; it only seems to work on "real iron" file systems
[14:25] <pitti> jdong: could you please file this as an apparmor bug?
[14:25] <jdong> sure thing
[14:26] <jdong> seeing that btrfs seems close to being around the corner... it'd be good to get this on the radar screen
[14:26] <jdong> it is somewhat "surprising" behavior that the snapshotting ioctl is accessible by unprivileged users
[14:27] <pitti> that, too; I guess it expects file system permissions to be respected
[14:27] <jdong> *nods* indeed
[14:28] <jdong> given that it's not a terribly expensive operation and UNIX DAC wise doesn't elevate any access... I suppose in that way it's "safe"
[14:28] <pitti> which is not really unreasonable, of course
[14:28] <jdong> indeed
[14:32] <jdong> pitti: ok, filed as bug 484786
[16:10] <robbiew> slangasek: the dkms issue was related to VirtualBox.... vboxdrv (3.0.8) failing to build...forgot I had VirtualBox installed :/
[16:10] <robbiew> so not THAT big of a deal right now
[16:11] <robbiew> Keybuk: shouldn't a dkms build failure be reported to the users during boot?
[16:13] <Keybuk> robbiew: no, but apport could popup after login
[16:13] <robbiew> right...sorry...that's what I meant
[17:03] <davidboy> Is it possible to download Lucid before Alpha 1?
[17:08] <smoser> soren, is there a general "vmbuilder improvements" session? or one that i missed.
[17:24] <maco> soren: wouln't it make sense to add lucid to karmic's ubuntu-vm-builder "suite" option so that karmic users can test it in a vm without having to do it as a karmic vm then do-release-upgrade?
[17:24] <maco> is that SRUable or would it require backports or...?
[17:24] <ebroder> Isn't there usually an SRU for debootstrap?
[17:25] <ebroder> Hmm...I guess it's always done as a backport
[17:33] <Riddell> asac: will you do the spec for desktop-lucid-firefox-kde-integration or shall I?
[20:09] <kirkland> Keybuk: okay, you're not the only one http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1267224
[20:19] <jdong> heh in general, how do you in Linux tell ACPI to keep a PCI device on during suspend?
[20:19] <jdong> Windows device manager has a per-device checkbox for doing that
[20:19] <jdong> I'm assuming that translates to some sort of ACPI voodoo
[22:29] <a6> hello
[22:29] <a6> help me thanks
[22:29] <a6> http://paste.ubuntu-fr-secours.org/plain-44908
[22:30] <a6> many people have concernerd
[22:31] <mneptok> a6: have you filed a bug regarding this issue on Launchpad?
[22:31] <a6> NO
[22:31] <mneptok> svp
[22:32] <a6> ok
[22:32] <mneptok> merci bien
[22:32] <superm1_> pitti, are you available right now, or hiding busy in a session?
[22:45] <Keybuk> mpt: my favourite thing
[22:45] <Keybuk> "[icon] There are wireless networks available.  Click this icon to see them"
[22:46] <mpt> I like you too, Keybuk
[22:46] <Keybuk> floating in the middle of the screen
[22:46] <mpt> oh
[22:46] <Keybuk> if I try and click the icon, it hides on me
[22:46] <Keybuk> and there's no other copy of that icon anywhere else on my computer
[22:46] <mpt> hm, missing patch in nm-applet
[22:47] <Keybuk> surely it should just popup the window with the wireless networks
[22:47] <Keybuk> update-manager style?
[22:47] <mpt> that would make sense
[22:48] <mpt> there doesn't seem to be a bug report on this
[22:48] <Keybuk> I was going to tweet about it instead
[22:49] <mpt> On the grounds that if people whine long enough about us using a proprietary bug tracker, Twitter will eventually be open-sourced?
[22:50] <mpt> Keybuk, did you happen to grab a screenshot? I haven't seen that myself so I'm uncomfortable reporting it
[22:51] <Keybuk> mpt: make it forget ibahn and ubuntu
[22:51] <Keybuk> then toggle your wireless off and on again
[22:52] <jdong> why was it decided that notify bubbles act like the ghost characters in nintendo video games??
[22:52] <ebroder> Haha
[22:52] <jdong> lol
[22:52] <jdong> that's the best metaphor I can come up with for them!
[22:53] <jdong> and just like those things, it's frustrating figuring out how to get rid of them.
[22:53] <jdong> I haven't figured out how to bounce eggs off the sides of the display yet :(
[22:55] <mpt> Keybuk, ok, I'll try that in a bit, thanks
[22:56]  * mpt is momentarily distracted by reporting bugs about Launchpad itself
[22:59] <TheMuso> c
[23:00] <Laney> defghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
[23:00] <chrisccoulson> hello Laney!
[23:00] <Laney> greetings sir!
[23:01] <Laney> any sign of $baby yet?
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> she arrived yesterday :)
[23:01] <Laney> oh wow, congratulations
[23:01] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Congratulations.
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> thanks:)
[23:02] <chrisccoulson> i had a very short day at work yesterday!
[23:02] <Laney> now the real fun begins
[23:02] <chrisccoulson> yeah! although, they're still both in hospital at the moment
[23:03] <chrisccoulson> so i have another night of peace ;)
[23:06] <lfuser-741> hello anyone there ?
[23:07] <Laney> hah, you better savour it :)
[23:07] <Laney> Good job you didn't go to Texas then eh?
[23:07] <lfuser-741> hey - can anyone help me ? I am newbie
[23:07] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it's a good job i'm not there
[23:07] <ajmitch> chrisccoulson: congratulations
[23:08] <chrisccoulson> ajmitch - thanks:)
[23:08] <chrisccoulson> and thanks TheMuso too
[23:09] <lfuser-741> looks like everyine is busy in there own world - no chance of any help here
[23:09] <chrisccoulson> lfuser-741 - you want #ubuntu for support
[23:10] <lfuser-741> thanks chris for your reply - yes - need a little bit help
[23:10] <Laney> bed time anyway
[23:10] <Laney> goodnight all
[23:10] <chrisccoulson> 'night Laney
[23:10] <ebroder> lfuser-741: It's generally considered bad etiquette in IRC to ask permission to ask your question, But this is still the wrong channel
[23:10] <maxb> james_w: Hi, do you have a moment to talk about a tricky UDD merge?
[23:11] <james_w> maxb: I'm almost out of battery, so have just a few minutes
[23:12] <lfuser-741> ok = chris - my first time in this forum - can your please guide me to the write forum where some one may be able to help me ?
[23:12] <maxb> james_w: ok, I'll keep it short: are there known problems when uploads to experimental are involved
[23:12] <maxb> ?
[23:13] <james_w> no known issues
[23:13] <james_w> doesn't mean there aren't any, what are you seeing?
[23:13] <lfuser-741> ebroder - which channel should I go for any help ?
[23:13] <ebroder> lfuser-741: #ubuntu. This is #ubuntu-devel. Go to #ubuntu
[23:14] <lfuser-741> ok - thanks ebroder - will head that way. your guidance much appreciated
[23:14] <Lindows> hope this is he right channel finally =)
[23:15] <maxb> james_w: After a merge from experimental->karmic, the subsequent upload to karmic which was a merge from unstable didn't have ancestry recorded as such.
[23:15] <Lindows> I just ran a md5sum comparing a backup of a windowsXP virtual image (30GB+, ext3) against what it wrote to my local drive (ext4) and the md5sums don't match...
[23:15] <maxb> This resulted in hilarity like "bzr merge-package" attempting to re-merge already-included changes, and all the file-id mess in the world
[23:15] <Lindows> is there a patch coming?
[23:16] <maxb> james_w: Ok, since there are no outstanding issues for you to point me to, I shall chronicle the mess to ubuntu-distributed-devel@
[23:16] <jdong> Lindows: I think that's a known bug.
[23:16] <Lindows> is there a patch coming?
[23:16] <jdong> bug 453579 I believe is the right one
[23:17] <maxb> james_w: Oh, one last question - if an import has wrong history, is the preferred approach to do some fixup commits, or is binning the existing branch an re-importing an option?
[23:17] <jdong> Lindows: to be honest I don't think anyone actually knows what the real cause of it is.
[23:17] <Lindows> okay, a better question, is it coming soon enough that I can wait it out or should I reinstall the OS using ext3 because it'll be a month or more?
[23:17] <jdong> the Karmic release notes did mention this bug...
[23:17] <Lindows> okay...hrm
[23:18] <jdong> it appears to be rare and only dealing with large files
[23:18] <jdong> so yeah, for the time being if you do a lot of work with large files, good idea to not use ext4 :-/
[23:18] <james_w> maxb: Thanks, mail is the best way, thanks for investigating. As for wrong history, I'd have to think about it
[23:18] <jdong> my personal opinion is that XFS is one of the best behaving filesystems to put VM images on
[23:18] <james_w> pointers to such branches on the mailing list appreciated
[23:18] <Lindows> well, I mean, definate "a lot", any video game file is > 512MB
[23:18] <jdong> but others will certainly disagree :)
[23:18] <jdong> Lindows: yeah that's one of the problems.
[23:18] <Lindows> define*
[23:19] <maxb> james_w: Actually I guess, to make this work, you'd have to replace history in sid branch too, so I guess a history rewrite would be ... complex and unwelcome.
[23:19] <jdong> nobody really knows what "big" actually means :)
[23:19] <jdong> it's one of those magical mystery voodoo bugs.
[23:19] <Lindows> well, crap
[23:19] <Lindows> guess I'm reinstalling
[23:20] <jdong> yeah sorry about your luck...
[23:20] <slangasek> Lindows: the original bug reporter says there's a patch which fixes it; I'm going to try to escalate that to the next kernel SRU
[23:20] <Lindows> awesome, thank you
[23:20] <jdong> and I hope the said patch will fix it :)
[23:20] <slangasek> (so that I can stop getting lots of useless and irrelevant bug mail from people who have *none of the relevant symptoms*)
[23:20] <jdong> slangasek: yeah I think I hit the reset button yesterday and..
[23:20] <jdong> *HIDES*
[23:21] <slangasek> jdong: Keybuk has already reported that it *does* fix it on his system; and almost no one else has actually reproduced it reliably
[23:21] <jdong> cool
[23:21] <slangasek> jdong: so are you here?
[23:21] <jdong> the most amusing part about that bug was the comment someone made about iterative md5summing "converging" on some value :)
[23:21] <jdong> slangasek: sadly I am not :(
[23:22] <jdong> as much as I'd love to be there right now, schoolwork requires me to stay planted.
[23:22] <Lindows> I guess I'll wait it out then, whenever the patch hits I can easily test it
[23:23] <Lindows> the update
[23:23] <Lindows> thank you for all your help
[23:29] <slangasek> jdong: doh
[23:30] <ebroder> Yeah, it turns out that the UDS scheduling is really crappy for students
[23:30] <ebroder> Because November and April are always OH CRAP CRUNCH TIME months
[23:31] <ebroder> Err, I guess it's November and May. May being worse, of course
[23:32] <jdong> heh indeed
[23:32] <jdong> hell even the one that was on MIT, I literally could not find the time to go to
[23:34] <slangasek> jdong: solution: stop studying, join the Free Software career track
[23:34] <slangasek> ;)
[23:34] <jdong> hahaha :)
[23:36] <chrisccoulson> jdong - what are you studying?
[23:36] <jdong> chrisccoulson: Electrical Engineering and Computer Science :)
[23:37] <chrisccoulson> jdong - i did straight electronics engineering
[23:37] <ebroder> slangasek: Where were you with that advice 3 years ago when I started? Now it just doesn't seem worth the trouble :-P
[23:37] <chrisccoulson> but i wish i did more of the computer science bit ;)
[23:37] <jdong> chrisccoulson: cool; I personally have a slightly bitter relationship with the EE side of myself ;-)
[23:37] <jdong> but it exists enough that I don't want to ignore it completely.
[23:37] <chrisccoulson> jdong - me too. i really enjoyed studying it, but i absolutely hate working in electronics
[23:38] <jdong> the electric machines (i.e. motors / electromagnetics) and control systems side of me does manifest itself from time to time....
[23:38] <jdong> but yeah by far I prefer to be on the CS and software engineering sides of things
[23:39] <jdong> maybe because there's less ways to set the room on fire ;-)
[23:39] <chrisccoulson> oh, i enjoy setting the room on fire, but there's not much chance of doing that in my job
[23:39] <chrisccoulson> i definately wish i'd done software instead!
[23:40]  * ajmitch thought that setting the room on fire was one of the perks
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> ajmitch - i thought that too ;)
[23:42] <donpdonp> what .h file declares DBUS_BUS_ACTIVATION ? i have various dbus -dev packages installed but "grep -r DBUS_BUS_ACTIVATION /usr/include/dbus-1.0/" turns up nothing.
[23:44] <jdong> ajmitch: if it's a "don't ask don't tell" fire, I'm all for that!
[23:45] <chrisccoulson> perhaps if i worked on something which wasn't safety critical, then there'd be more chance of fire :)