nixternaldpm: sorry I missed it...I will go over the backlog and gobby docs later tonight00:01
dpmnixternal, no worries, thanks for coming back to me. We'll be posting the outcome to ubuntu-doc@ as well00:03
nixternalgroovy...I had that marked to make but I had to give my old man a ride since my mom is driving his vehicle right now00:06
=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
jjessei see nixternal has posted some about kubuntu docs :)  looks like he is up to stiring up trouble again02:11
DarkwingDuckhey jjesse02:12
jjessehey DarkwingDuck02:23
DarkwingDuckOkay, I think ive about got my feet under me with XML again...02:31
DarkwingDuckwhat do you use for an editor? just Kate?02:31
jjesseor nano02:32
DarkwingDuckGot ya... and is it just you and Nix for doc guys?02:32
DarkwingDuckWell, once I get more comfy me too02:33
jjesseyes DarkwingDuck02:36
jjessedid you get my note about yes you can send it to me and nixternal02:44
DarkwingDuckmissed that one.02:46
DarkwingDuckYou think it would be better for me to change the current kubuntu-docs to reflect the kubuntu-netbook-doc changes?02:47
DarkwingDuckBecause alot of it is the same just the GUI and a few other minor changes.02:48
jjesseyes i think so02:48
jjesseinstead of writing everything from scratch02:48
DarkwingDuckis there any documentation on the folder structure of documentation?02:50
DarkwingDuckTo learn? :)02:50
jjesseumm not yet02:50
DarkwingDuckSo, no real standard?02:51
jjesseyeah and that's the problem that nixternal sent to the kubuntu-devel mailing list02:51
jjesseaobut rewriting for scrach for lucid02:51
DarkwingDuckI would like to be a part of that.02:52
jjessedo you read kubuntu-devel02:52
jjessehe sent an email earlier02:52
DarkwingDuckI'm signing up now02:52
DarkwingDuckI'll also send out a introduction email that I will be working with you and nixternal with the doc side of kubuntu along with the netbook stuff02:53
DarkwingDuck:) Thanks02:54
DarkwingDucklaunchpad mailing list right? I have to be added...02:55
jjessethe kubuntu-devel class02:55
jjessemailing list i meant02:55
jjesseit might be on lists.ubuntu.com ??02:56
DarkwingDucki'm looking lol02:57
DarkwingDuckokay, found it.03:00
jjesseyay look in the list archives from earlier today03:01
DarkwingDuckand subscribed03:01
jjessehaven't read the discussion myself yet03:01
ryanakcanixternal, jjesse: Will help.kubuntu.org get done for lucid?03:01
jjesseryanakca i sure hope so, hopefully with the way nixternal is suggesting rewriting these03:03
DarkwingDuckjjesse: eh, not that deep with the thread...03:06
jjesseoh ok03:12
* jjesse walks dog and then heds to bed03:13
DarkwingDuckNight jjesse03:16
nixternalryanakca: yes for Lucid and h.k.o..... h.k.o would have been useless now, as the docs are in bad shape....with the new setup we are looking at, I will make sure to build the h.k.o stuff right into the Makefile from the beginning04:58
DarkwingDucknixternal: You're back :)05:18
DarkwingDuckI wanted to talk to you about the docs and Lucid05:18
=== justin__ is now known as spridel
=== spridel is now known as register
=== register is now known as spridel
DarkwingDucknixternal: ping05:31
DarkwingDuckOkay, I'll have to email you nixternal05:45
markeyhow can I mark a package in such a way that apt-get will ignore it for upgrading?06:34
markeysay I made it myself and don't want it changed06:34
ghostcubeehlo :)09:11
amichairhi ghostcube09:16
amichairwhatcu upto?09:17
amichairwhatcu upto?09:19
* apachelogger jumps in, in his darth vader costume and goes into heavy breathing mode09:21
apacheloggermarkey: you can pin it09:22
* apachelogger thinks there should be a gui for that really09:22
markeypin what?09:22
markeythe package09:23
markeythanks :)09:23
apacheloggeroh, synaptic actually can do that09:23
markeysynaptic.. gtk...09:23
markeyI use aptitude from konsole, mostly09:23
markeylovely tool09:23
apacheloggercli way of pinning seems good enough too :)09:24
* apachelogger finds it weird that aptitude doesnt have it built in though09:24
markey"echo libxfont1 hold | dpkg --set-selections"09:24
markeythat is a strange way to pipe the commands09:25
markeyis that really needed? :)09:25
apachelogger*Shrug* if the tutorial says so :P09:25
markeynice, it worked09:26
markeyThe following packages have been kept back:09:26
markey  metastore09:26
markeythx :)09:26
markeybtw, this metastore is really just a part of "etckeeper", and that is one hell of a cool tool09:28
markeyallows you to use Git for making backups09:28
markeysuper easy :)09:28
apacheloggeretckeeper is indeed superawesome09:31
apacheloggeroha... google chrome os... with inferiority builtin :D09:32
* apachelogger dances with gtk 09:32
markeyapachelogger: have you tried etckeeper yourself? I've only built it last night, not yet really used09:32
markeybut it seems awesome09:32
apacheloggerevery server I setup gets etckeeper, not a lot, but yes I used it09:33
* apachelogger got jamie oliver on his igoogle :D09:34
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio
=== Tonio is now known as Tonio_
ghostcubehi amichair :)09:43
* amichair is curious how the boys and gals here found their way to kubuntu...09:44
Tm_Tamichair: you really don't want to know...09:45
* Tm_T hides09:45
amichairwhy, how kinky does it get? :-)09:46
Tm_T...and that's something I don't want to know09:47
* markey always reads amichair as "armchair", for some reason :)09:47
amichairmarkey: hehe... I thought of that, that I would too, but I figured it can bring up a nice cozy feeling09:49
amichairactually a lot of irc nicks bring up conotations of somthing similar, but not quite09:50
amichairlike echidna brings up memories of good Indian food for some reason (chetni maybe?)09:51
amichairbut really, I'm cursious where the ppl leading kubuntu have their os/desktop/software background from, which influences their ways...09:53
Tm_Tamichair: I got my first own pc in january 2004, installed netBSD in it, then Debian...09:54
Tm_Tbefore that, I was using DOS/Windows from early nineties09:54
Tm_Tpretty much because I had no other choices09:54
amichairso u switched at xp or so?09:55
* apachelogger is wondering why his kuniqueapplication insists on dying -.-09:55
seelemarkey: nice blog post09:56
Tm_Toh and I have used OS/2 and BeOS variants too09:56
apacheloggerand is it some rule of nature that chrome must have bloated source repos?09:56
Tm_Tapachelogger: is, son09:56
amichairI started off with vic20,commodore64, when I got my first 8086 with dos, upgrading the windows path up to xp09:57
amichairI never used osx or tried any other linux I think, kubuntu was love at first sight :-)09:58
markeyseele: thanks :)09:58
Tm_Tyu, I have silly memories with Memotech (:)09:58
apacheloggerkubotu: do something!!!09:58
amichairbut I only made the full switch about a year ago, until then it was dual boot, playing around here and there. oh at work I switched to kubuntu a year earlier, in a windows environment. it didn't play along perfectly, but good enough to get by09:59
amichairmarkey: blog?09:59
markeyamichair: http://amarok.kde.org/blog/archives/1132-Micro-Options,-Many-Options,-No-Options-A-practical-guide-to-help-you-decide..html09:59
markeyoi, it shorted the URL09:59
markeyif it doesn't work, click in "amarok blog" above10:00
markeytopmost article10:00
amichairit's ok, fixed as I copied10:00
amichairmarkey: very true10:07
amichairmarkey: how would one contact Celeste?10:11
markeyamichair: e.g. via kde-usability@kde.org10:14
markeymailing list10:14
markeyamichair: or, by talking to seele here, who happens to be the same person ;)10:14
amichairoh! how convenient :-)10:15
amichairseele: hello there :-)10:27
Mamarokhm, chormium works again with Flash and Javascript, I just had to restart it... *ashamed*10:28
Mamarokbut another issue: what could be causing an USB hub not to work on Kubuntu (besides the hub being broken) ?10:28
Mamarokwith HAL freaking out completely, keyboard not being responsive anymore, etc10:29
Mamarokunplugging that hub solved the HAL problem, but could this be a non-loaded usb module?10:29
Mamarokthat thing is brand new10:29
markeybrand new, but still borked :)10:52
markeyit can happen10:52
amichairmarkey: it might be worth updating bios and running memtest too when hardware flakiness is involved11:03
amichairoops, that was for Mamarok :-)11:03
markeyamichair: happens on two computers, so we can rule this out11:05
markeycompletely different computers in fact11:05
ryanakcanixternal: Great :)12:32
EagleScreenwill there be a Kubuntu Lucid Webbrowser blueprint?12:51
Tm_TEagleScreen: I hope so12:52
EagleScreenI was watching Bug #396309 and I asked it12:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 396309 in rekonq "Use Rekonq in place of Arora as Kubuntu default web browser. [wishlist]" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39630912:53
EagleScreenWith packages in here https://launchpad.net/~debfx/+archive/firefox-kde; kcm-gtk, PlasmaNotify Add-on and apturl-kde, Firefox is ready to become the default web browser in Kubuntu.13:02
EagleScreenAnother choice could be Rekonq, 0.3 version seems to be good13:07
Tm_TEagleScreen: ...13:11
Tm_TEagleScreen: hmm, willing to set up wikipage to collect information about different browsers?13:12
Tm_Tfor example what they support in KDE and what they require13:12
Tm_Tand how well those browsers work in modern sites13:13
Tm_TEagleScreen: I can provide some data for this comparison then13:13
EagleScreengood idea13:14
Tm_TEagleScreen: but I afraid Firefox cannot be default browser in any near future13:14
Tm_Tit can be included in comparison though13:14
EagleScreencan you explain why you reject Firefox, Tm_T?13:20
* Sput hopes rekonq gains adblock soon13:21
Sputthe developer seems to be interested13:21
Tm_TEagleScreen: space in CD13:22
tsimpsonif we put FF (and all the stuff it needs) on our CD, we'd need to remove lots of other software13:24
tsimpsonso until there's a way to build it without GTK, we can't include it13:24
tsimpsonwell, GTK and the other stuff it needs13:25
apacheloggerauth implementing for ubuntuone is of course done in python13:42
apacheloggerlooks like I have to digg into python's c api after all -.-13:42
EagleScreenFF does not need much gtk stuff to run, but it may be to build13:47
EagleScreenis it necessary to include build-deps for each package in the CD?13:48
apacheloggereither that or you are wrong when saying that Mozilla Firefox does not need much gtk13:48
amichairis there anything else we can trade FF for on the cd? it just seems to me that FF is probably the #1 used app on desktops (except for IE maybe:-) ) - it's not too friendly to not have it built in13:49
apacheloggerthough in fact you are right, but yet you are wrong13:49
apacheloggerMozilla Firefox needs loads and loads and loads of libs to get somewhat decent desktop intregation13:49
amichairit would make sense to remove 10 components that 1% of ppl use, for FF which many many use - the expected value of built-in usefulness will still be much higher13:50
amichairif there was only a way...13:51
EagleScreenAmarok, for instance, depends on libgtk2.013:55
=== manny__ is now known as mannyv
EagleScreenI think that Firefox and its packages has a weight of around 10 MB, apachelogger13:58
apacheloggerpointless discussion13:59
apacheloggerit is not going to get on the CD14:00
apacheloggerend of discussion14:00
EagleScreenok, but, at least, keep the installer in the menu, and upload the integration stuff to repository, if possible: https://launchpad.net/~debfx/+archive/firefox-kde AND PlasmaNotify Add-on14:01
\shapachelogger, code kubuntuone in python with PyQt + PyKDE14:03
apachelogger\sh: a) python is a pain in the arse b) pykde is even more of a pain in the arse c) I can not get fancy new systray in 4.3 with pykde14:04
apacheloggeralso from a performance POV coding that kind of stuff in python is a kind of bad idea as we have seen with update-notifier-kde14:05
\shapachelogger, bah...who needs a systray14:05
apacheloggerthen there is even less justification for using python14:05
apacheloggerand even more for having the autentification handled by the applet14:05
\shapachelogger, is it using openid, btw? never checked the client source of uone14:06
amichairthe FF thing makes me wonder... is gaining market share one of the stated kubuntu goals? if not, there's no issue there I guess14:06
\shamichair, what has FF to do with Kubuntu gaining market share? if you want market share, take chromium or whatever14:07
apachelogger\sh: oauth14:08
apacheloggerbut since ubuntuone == openid forward to launchpad...14:08
amichair\sh: a large percent of windows users (most of the market who's share we might want) use or know FF. it's an easy and comfortable switch, much lower barrier to entry. especially since a browser is the most used desktop app... that's my take on it, anyway :-)14:10
Tm_Tamichair: but as I have learnt, many users don't know what browser they are using (so it doesn't matter as long as it works) and those who do know, has no trouble installing it in current way14:11
\shamichair, tbh, I'm normally a fan of KDE, but regarding windows user, they do much better with gnome, or mac os x, right now, then with KDE...KUbuntu could help to ease things on KDE when desktop integration is done in a nice way, but right now, KDE is too complicated for the standard windows user14:11
\shmost windows user don't even know what "multiple desktops" are...14:12
\shapachelogger, did you had a look on liboauth?14:12
\shapachelogger, http://liboauth.sourceforge.net/index.html14:13
apachelogger\sh: nope, I am trying to avoid rewriting the auth process :)14:13
apacheloggersince there is a perfectly fine implementation, just that it is done in python which makes calling it a bit difficult14:13
=== bdefreese3 is now known as bdefreese
=== bdefreese is now known as bddebian
amichair\sh: that brings us back to the previous question, of whether we want those users to come to kubuntu (and make sure they want to stay), or send them off to ubuntu first...14:15
\shamichair, let's do some good desktop integration thingies first in Kubuntu...which is hard enough, and then we can think about user catching...anyways it's a problem since kubuntu was invented14:17
amichair\sh: it's true they know nothing of multiple desktops, but why does that matter? if they enjoy kubuntu without using desktops, is that bad?14:17
Sputat least KDE 4.4 seems to gain support for PulseAudio14:18
amichair\sh: ok, that's a good answer. it's ok if market share is not currently one of the goals.14:18
Sputthat stuff was merged in today14:18
Tm_TSput: where what stuff?14:18
SputTm_T: phonon support for pulseaudio14:19
Tm_TSput: hmm, ah, that commit(s)14:19
\shamichair, anyways...we have a good userbase in europe...the problem is always America (which is redhat country and novell == gnome) and asia (which is also more a redhat area)14:19
amichair\sh: I was not aware of that... interesting14:20
\shamichair, talking about KDE in general, not kubuntu ( I don't know any numbers of downloads or whatever)14:20
amichair\sh: I think it would be a good idea in any case to define who the target audience is - users of other distros, of other OSs, ppl who like KDE elsewhere, ppl who never tried KDE, advanced users, first-time users (netbooks?)...14:22
Tm_Tall of those14:23
Tm_Twe are taking over the whole world if you haven't noticed (;)14:23
amichairTm_T: oh, great :-) to work then! :-D14:23
\shI really wonder, how many people in the US or Asia are using opensuse at all...it's also a german /european phenomenon...I would also like to know the reason for opensuse to switch from gnome by default to kde by default14:24
amichair\sh: according to popcorn, 150K kubuntu-desktops installed, for what it's worth :-)14:25
\shif it was just "our european userbase didn't want to have gnome"14:25
Tm_T\sh: I believe there were some poll14:25
Sput\sh: when's a good time to give you a call?14:26
Tm_Twhen KDE won, they tried to ignore it, people got rage ...14:26
\shamichair, vs. 975314 installs of ubuntu-desktop ;)14:26
amichairmmmm.... popcorn...14:26
amichairbut far too few kubuntu-netbooks :-(14:29
Tm_Tshame that doesn't tell the whole truth14:29
amichairTm_T: good statistics are hard to come by :(14:30
\shoh we just need a method to phone home ;)14:30
\shbut if we would do that, we would be the steak on a winter barbecue14:30
amichairmmmm.... steak.....14:31
Sputoh interesting, Canonical does work for ChromiumOS?14:31
\shSput, where did you read that?14:31
jjesseyeah i thought that was interest14:31
\shSput, ach ...old news ,) rumours were telling always that google is using a special ubuntu version on their servers and desktops whatever14:32
ryanakcaamichair: We set the target audience in the meeting the other day, look here: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidWebsiteMarketingBranding14:57
ryanakcaIf someone with packaging experience has time and interest, could they simultaneously help me with a package split and test Kobby (I can fire up an infinoted and we can do it over it).14:59
amichairryanakca: thanks for the link15:02
\shSput, still online ?15:41
\shSput, what about today? we could get a lift by Mr. Vaporup ;)15:42
RiddellQuintasan1: what was the status of the parley SRU?15:49
Sput\sh: ok :)15:50
=== Quintasan1 is now known as Quintasan
QuintasanRiddell: I have subscribed SRU team on LP but no response15:53
QuintasanShould I poke on #ubuntu-motu?15:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 484802 in ubuntu "SRU: Parley fails to initialize Python scripts" [Undecided,New]15:53
nixternalDarkwingDuck: hehe, I went to bed right after I said that last night :)15:53
nixternalI am getting to old...going to bed all early and stuff :)15:53
RiddellQuintasan: hmm, those aren't minimal debdiffs15:59
RiddellQuintasan: I think you're diffing lucid to karmic?15:59
RiddellQuintasan: first thing is to get the fix into lucid, could you commit the change to kdeedu bzr packaging?16:00
RiddellQuintasan: next we need minimal debdiffs for karmic, so grab the package from karmic, make only the Recommends change and changelog then do a debdiff16:00
Riddellsame for PPA16:01
Quintasanahh ,okay16:03
nixternalDarkwingDuck: I didn't know you were a squid did I? Sr. Cheif Gunner's Mate here :)16:14
QuintasanRiddell: commited to BZR16:17
RiddellQuintasan: what is that change for?16:19
RiddellQuintasan: please revert that change, also 4:4.3.3-0ubuntu1 hasn't been uploaded so no need for a new changelog version, just add your entires to the changelog for 4:4.3.3-0ubuntu1 under [Your Name]16:21
QuintasanRiddell: about that DEXPERIMENTAL thing, I didn't change that line :/16:26
RiddellQuintasan: bzr diff says differently :)16:29
debfxEagleScreen: afaik the PlasmaNotify extension is useless when you use firefox with the KDE patch16:30
Quintasanurgh, damn it, I suck at bzr16:31
EagleScreendebfx: is it integrated in the kde patch?16:33
QuintasanRiddell: http://pastebin.com/f3b69a92 -> bzr diff and rules are even not touched, I hope this is right16:33
RiddellQuintasan: that's good16:35
RiddellQuintasan: I'd replaces "they are16:35
Riddell+        broked"16:35
Riddellwith "it does not work"16:35
debfxEagleScreen: yeah, it displays a knotification popup when a download finished16:37
EagleScreeni will check it16:38
QuintasanRiddell: about reverting, I would do bzr revert [files] then make changes and push them once again?16:41
RiddellQuintasan: I wouldn't do any reverting, I'd just make the changes and commit/push16:42
QuintasanRiddell: just asking for future :P16:43
Riddellyeah I guess so16:44
QuintasanRiddell: fixed now, everything should be fine16:45
RiddellQuintasan: hmm, maybe that DEXPERIMENTAL_PYTHON_BINDINGS issue was something on my local checkout16:47
RiddellQuintasan: I'll review this merge now and upload, if you can do the minimal diffs for karmic and karmic PPA versions16:47
Riddellif anyone sees agateau please send him my way (in grand ballroom)16:48
Quintasanuhh sure, will get to it when Ill finish downloading ChromeOS source :P16:48
EagleScreendebfx: i do not see any notification after PlasmaNotify uninstalled16:49
EagleScreendebfx: I remember that in Suse i need to install it to have KDE notifications16:50
debfxEagleScreen: the kde integration patch has the code to display the notification and it works for me16:52
debfxdoes it work with a fresh profile?16:53
EagleScreenfor me, no notification (neither, Firefox or Knotify) after installing and uninstalling PlasmaNotify Add-on16:53
RiddellI had plasma notifications from firefox using debfx's packages16:55
Riddelldebfx: we had a session with asac and calc on firefox and they seem happy and keen to have the patches in lucid's firefox, are you interested in helping with that?16:56
EagleScreenPlasma notifications are working in a fresh profile, so it seems that PlasmaNotify installation break FF notification system with KDE patches16:58
debfxRiddell: yes sure, I'd be happy to help16:58
Riddelldebfx: I think there's some changes asac wanted to make or investigate to the patches, I'm hoping he'll write a spec for it17:01
debfxEagleScreen: I think you need to set browser.download.manager.showAlertOnComplete to true17:10
nixternalhttp://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-kubuntu-9.10  - woot, HowtoForge has us under 'The Perfect Desktop' this go round! \o/17:11
=== ruphy_ is now known as ruphy
* apachelogger goes after qdbus with a bigish knife17:11
nixternalqdbus is nice17:15
nixternalqdbus --system baby!17:15
rgreeningRiddell: ping17:16
apacheloggernixternal: nah nah the qt qtdbus dbus17:16
apacheloggerdoes wanna listen to the poor ol ubuntuone daemon17:16
nixternaloh, thought you meant the cli app17:17
Riddellrgreening: worked out how to play videos yet?17:17
apacheloggernixternal: nah, though that one is stupid too17:17
apacheloggerdoesn't list half the methods17:17
rgreeningRiddell: well, maybe if I had a clean laptop to work from....17:17
nixternalthere is also qdbusviewer gui if you don't want to keep throwing commands17:17
Riddellrgreening: always blame the equipment..17:17
rgreeningRiddell: where abouts are u?17:17
Riddellrgreening: grand ballroom17:18
rgreeningOh, ok... I'll pop over in a bit.17:19
rgreeningRiddell: almost got the tp spec done...17:19
* apachelogger doesnt get that dbus foo -.-17:21
Quintasanwell, what can I say, I don't get OOP :P17:24
rgreeningQuintasan: you know, if you smile first and say OOP its quite different...17:25
nixternalperl object oriented programming - way more fun!17:26
nixternalI about fell out of my chair when I read that in my perl book the other day17:26
rgreening:P OOP17:26
nixternalprocedural oop as well17:26
QuintasanLOOP - lisp object oriented programing17:27
Quintasanmakes perfect sense17:27
apacheloggerwhy does the daemon not talk to me17:28
apacheloggeroh why oh why17:28
Quintasanit aint speaking apacheloggerian :P17:28
Quintasanapachelogger: try learning demonic :317:28
apacheloggerI event went for qt!17:28
apacheloggerknowing that pyware would not be able to interpret apacheloggerian!17:29
apacheloggerand yet it fails to talk to me!17:29
* apachelogger notes that it is most likely an implementation problem though, since it works in qdbusviewer and dbus-monitor is also all verbose about sending round information17:30
Quintasanoh, nice set of apps17:30
Quintasanless -> more -> most17:30
Riddellapachelogger: try asking in an ubuntu one channel maybe?17:30
apacheloggerRiddell: the problem is on my side, I just dont know where17:31
apacheloggermaybe scope related or something17:31
apacheloggerthough that would also be weird :S17:31
apacheloggerRiddell: once that dbus stuff is sorted, I expect that ubuntuone for KDE can be a straight forward implementation, since just about everything is done via dbus17:45
QuintasanRiddell: 4.3.2 debdiff is up on LP, dling 4.3.3 from PPA now17:48
Riddellapachelogger: there's an ubuntu one guy here who says he's wanting to work with someone to get konqueror bookmark syncing with ubuntu one, should I put him in touch with you?17:54
tsimpsonapachelogger: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdelibs/kdeui/notifications/knotificationmanager.cpp?view=markup makes me think you need a special connect()17:55
tsimpson(line 60)17:55
QuintasanTo who should I report bugs in LP ui?17:57
tsimpsonfile them against the launchpad project17:58
tsimpson(in launchpad)17:58
Riddellah, agateau18:00
Riddellagateau: able to come to grand ballroom?  I've some questions about this spec18:00
agateauRiddell: sorry, I am at IRC meeting with Aaron and marco18:01
agateauRiddell: in stanford (II)18:01
Riddellagateau: whenever you're free then18:02
Riddellagateau: can't be a very interesting session, kopete tells me you just signed onto facebook :)18:04
shtylman_Riddell: piing18:06
jussi01where is the IRC meeting thats on now?18:07
shtylman_jussi01: stanford18:07
Riddellshtylman_: pong18:07
shtylman_2nd floor18:07
jussi01shtylman_: wait, isnt it an IRC meeting?18:08
shtylman_Riddell: glad you were able to make it :)18:08
shtylman_jussi01: well...sorta18:08
shtylman_jussi01: IRC with the KDE upstream people18:08
Tm_Tshtylman_: channel?18:08
Riddellshtylman_: where are the upstreams hiding?18:08
shtylman_Tm_T: #ubuntu-uds-stanford and #ayatana18:09
shtylman_we don't know which...18:09
Tm_Tshtylman_: ouch18:09
shtylman_Riddell: they are scared18:09
shtylman_discussion will be in #ubuntu-uds-stanford18:10
shtylman_Riddell: are you going to sing for us tonight?18:12
Riddellwhat would you like me to sing?18:12
shtylman_we are the champions :)18:12
QuintasanRiddell: okay, two minimal debdiffs are up :)18:13
* Quintasan votes for Admins Song18:13
Riddelllooking good Quintasan18:18
Riddellonly change I'll make is "0ubuntu2) karmic" should be "0ubuntu1.1) karmic-proposed"18:19
nixternalhey, we are renaming KNE to KNR right?18:20
Riddellwe are18:22
jjessewe are renaming kubuntu netbook eidtion to netbook remix?18:22
nixternalUNR is now UNE18:22
jjessei though  the propsoal was to rename UNR to UNE18:22
nixternalthey dropped the remix18:23
* jjesse is confused18:23
* nixternal too18:23
nixternalUNR is now UNE, they have already started the changes18:23
* jussi01 also...18:23
* nixternal does not like KNR, as there is no remixing involved18:24
jjesseits a special edition w/ plasma netbook18:24
jjessecan we vote on this :)18:24
nixternalseems we are to late :(18:24
* maco raises hand for keeping KNE18:24
nixternaldid the KC vote on it?18:24
Riddellthe use of the word is not well defined, but we've been asked to call it a remix because it's not going to be commercially supported18:24
nixternalooh, pulled the KC card18:24
nixternalif the use of the word is not well defined, then why did Ubuntu chose it over remix18:25
macoi thought remix was "uses things not in main"?18:25
Riddellnixternal: ubuntu is dropping it because it will be commercially supported18:25
Riddellmaco: it's not that clear18:26
nixternalshouldn't this have been a KC decision?18:26
Riddellnixternal: the trademark is owned by canonical, it's their say18:26
nixternalalrighty then18:26
ScottKnixternal: It's not a big deal I think.  Not my preference, but nothing to go to war over.18:27
jjesseanything that is not commercially supported has to have a remix to it?18:27
nixternaloh, I wasn't going to go to war over it...war doesn't solve a thing anyways18:27
nixternalwar is nothing more than a pissing contest :)18:28
ScottKjjesse: It's complex and the decision is taken, so no point in dwelling on it.18:28
Riddelljjesse: something like that.  for ubuntu and kubuntu anyway.  variants with more obscure names xubuntu et al are presumably not going to be mistaken for commercially supported18:28
macokubuntu is commercially supported?18:28
nixternalmaco: yup18:28
apacheloggerRiddell: that should be done via akonadi IMHO18:28
ScottKmaco: It is.  You can buy a support contract for it.18:28
Riddellmaco: sure18:28
ScottK(from Canonical)18:28
apacheloggerRiddell: that way bookmarks could also be shared with chrome (via appropriate akoandi agent of course)18:29
nixternalcan we chose another word besides remix Riddell? something cooler?18:29
nixternalif we can find a cooler word that is :)18:29
Riddellnixternal: I suspect not18:29
macohuh didnt know that. i figured just ubuntu wss18:29
ScottKnixternal: I asked and the trademark owner has very specific requirements.18:29
nixternalwell then, I say we have a bit of fun with KNR then18:29
macoxtian and muslim edition arent commercially supported are they?18:29
Riddellapachelogger: that would require a lot of re-architecting of KDE bits, not trivial18:30
ScottKmaco: Muslim Edition is now Sabayon (I think, spelling may be wrong) for this reason18:30
macoScottK: er, no18:30
macoScottK: Sabayon is Gentoo-based and is a few years older18:30
ScottKOK, there's one that's named something similar to that.18:30
macoi used it back in 200718:31
ScottKRight.  I think it's Sabilly18:31
apacheloggerRiddell: well, there are works towards enabling akonadi to be used with ubuntu one in some way, so in the long run making kbookmarks stored in akonadi is the better choice IMHO18:31
nixternali tried sabayon as well, cuz it was cool, but oh so slow18:31
* ScottK doesn't remember and doesn't have time to look it up.18:31
macoScottK: one L but yeh18:31
maconixternal: yes it is. and it refused to install on a 10GB partition18:32
nixternalhaha, nice18:32
maconixternal: requires a 15GB partition18:32
apacheloggertsimpson: knotificationmanager seems to be using a whole lot different approach18:33
apacheloggerbut oh well18:33
apacheloggerworth a try18:33
tsimpsonI noticed the docs for QtDBus are rather lacking still, requiring underlying knowledge about DBus (which no sane person has)18:34
* jtechidna is hoping that apachelogger will acquire 1337 DBus skillz from all this and do codec installation for kubuntu-notification-helper18:35
jtechidnaeither that or I'd have to learn dbus :x18:35
nookie^evening folks18:36
jjesseafternoon :)18:36
* apachelogger hugs tsimpson18:39
apacheloggerfor some reason that works18:39
apacheloggerand I have no freaking clue why that code is any different -.-18:40
apacheloggertechnically they should do exactly the same from what I read18:40
jtechidnaYou know, making a KCM for kubuntu-notification-helper would be quite trivial, and 4 months is a long time. I'll put that next on my ToCode list.18:41
tsimpsonapachelogger: yeah, the doc even says "Signals are connected to by using the normal QObject::connect() function.", but that seems to just be lies18:42
Riddelljtechidna: why does it need a KCM?18:42
nixternalcome on, dbus isn't all that hard now :)18:42
apacheloggertsimpson: nokia is telling lies I knew it! :P18:42
jtechidnaRiddell: so that you can re-enable notifications18:42
apacheloggernixternal: not dbus, qtdbus18:42
apacheloggerdbus is all shiny and working18:42
nixternalI scribbled up code that would do airplane mode over dbus, and then listen for changes made elsewhere and change icon/status respectively18:42
Riddelljtechidna: mm, right18:42
jtechidnawe could tuck it in the existing toplevel notification KCM and a child KCM18:43
apacheloggerWe even use the standard QObject::connect method! This is accomplished by QDBusInterface using Qt's meta object system to dynamically add the signals the D-Bus interface advertises. Very slick!18:43
apacheloggertsimpson: maybe one has to do extra magic to get that going?18:44
jtechidnaYou know, KDE already has extensive settings for controlling notifications.18:45
jtechidnaIt would probably be feasible to just use the current controls in the Notifications module18:46
* apachelogger aint got no idea what jtechidna is talking about :P18:46
apacheloggerI am working on applet <-> daemon interaction18:46
jtechidnaSystem Settings -> Notifications. You could modify notification settings for Kubuntu Notification Helper from there18:46
jtechidnaSorry to switch subjects like that :)18:47
apacheloggerjtechidna: I am not sure that is easy to manipulate from outside the kcm18:47
apacheloggerAS A C DEVELOPER I am against that :P18:47
apacheloggerif we do it independent from knotify we might save a few bytes here and there18:48
apacheloggersince we can abort event creation AND/OR prevent kdirwatching18:48
jtechidnaIt's a tradeoff between a few bytes and using the existing architecture, if we can use it a tall.18:49
jtechidna*at all18:49
Mamarokapachelogger: you are a C developer? Shame on you, not adequate for the 21st century anymore :)18:49
apacheloggerwell, I always was obsessed with performance, and C embrassed that obsession :D18:52
apacheloggerjtechidna: that is not the existig architecture18:52
apacheloggerjtechidna: for how the event stuff was designed there is no existing architecture18:52
apacheloggerwhich is exactly using as little resources as possible18:52
apacheloggerwhich requires that events do not get created when not needed and that dirs are not watched when not needed18:53
tsimpsonmost of the time I see QDBusInterface being used in kdelibs is just for call()18:53
tsimpsoneven solid/solid/backends/hal/haldevice.cpp uses .connection().connect()18:53
apacheloggertsimpson: well, I need to listen :D18:53
apacheloggerwell, lets go with connection connect then!18:54
apacheloggerit seems somehow recursive, since that approach defines the interfacy twice18:55
RiddellQuintasan: bug 484802 uploaded, hopefully it'll get approved soon for karmic-proposed then we need to test and it'll get moved to -updates18:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 484802 in Ubuntu Karmic "SRU: Parley fails to initialize Python scripts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48480218:55
RiddellQuintasan: can you add a test case to the bug too?  "start app, it complains.  install update, start app, it doesn't"18:56
Riddellsomething like that18:56
apacheloggertsimpson: I tell you the documentation on qt dbus is one big PITA19:02
* apachelogger aint got no clue how to make that work with arguments19:03
tsimpsonhave you read http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.5/intro-to-dbus.html (completely useless)19:03
QuintasanRiddell: should I add it as a comment? I can't find any link to edit the bug description :/19:05
jtechidnaTime to go home; be back in a bit.19:06
apacheloggertsimpson: I noticed its uselessness and did not read it :P19:06
apacheloggerthere isnt even a freaking reference example19:07
* apachelogger wouldnt care about the documentation if there was at least some example code19:07
tsimpsonyeah, a noticeable absence of examples19:07
tsimpsonmaybe the Qt devs don't even know how to use QtDBus...19:08
RiddellQuintasan: comment is fine19:08
apacheloggertsimpson: lol19:09
Quintasanoh, that would be huge failure :D19:11
apacheloggertsimpson: maybe the connection.connect stuff only works because it does not fiddle with arguments19:12
QuintasanRiddell: done, should I do something else?19:13
RiddellQuintasan: just for it to be approved then find someone to test it19:13
RiddellQuintasan: probably won't get approved until next week, UDS being on this week19:13
tsimpsonapachelogger: there is an overloaded connect() which accepts a "signature"19:14
tsimpsonI'm guessing that's in dbus format19:14
Riddelljussi01: please unsilence ubotu now in -stanford19:15
apacheloggertsimpson: what would a signature be?19:19
tsimpsonapachelogger: you can usually see it with introspection19:20
apachelogger<arg type="v" name="path" />19:21
apacheloggerthat translates to a QDBusVariant but oh well19:21
tsimpsonso the signature is "v" *I think*19:22
* apachelogger shall blog about good documentation soonish19:23
* apachelogger also doesnt find it funny how often the ubuntuone auth stuff runs into segfault19:24
apacheloggertsimpson: no luck with "v"19:24
apacheloggersame result as with non connection.connect (i.e. no result at all)19:25
apacheloggerif it even was whining or somethin :|19:25
* tsimpson has no idea19:32
apacheloggerI blame it all on that variant junk19:33
Tm_T2135.16 < CIA-45> mueller * r1052100 kjs/branches/KDE/4.3/kdelibs/kjs/dtoa.cpp: fix array overrun (CVE-2009-0689)19:35
ubottuThe gdtoa (aka new dtoa) implementation in gdtoa/misc.c in libc in FreeBSD 6.4 and 7.2, NetBSD 5.0, and OpenBSD 4.5 allows context-dependent attackers to cause a denial of service (application crash) or possibly have unspecified other impact via a large precision value in the format argument to a printf function, related to an "array overrun." (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2009-0689)19:40
tsimpsongood bot19:40
Tm_Talso that went to 3.519:41
Tm_T(and other 4.x branches)19:41
Tm_Ttsimpson: oh, interesting, so that shouldn't affect us19:43
tsimpsonapparently not19:43
apacheloggertsimpson, Riddell: if someone wants to poke at the dbus stuff http://gitorious.org/ubuntuone-client-kde/ubuntuone-client-kde I add a README that should (I think) describe all the steps necessary to get the prototype going19:53
apacheloggeroh right19:55
apacheloggertsimpson: http://gitorious.org/ubuntuone-client-kde/ubuntuone-client-kde/blobs/master/src/ubuntuoneapplication.cpp19:55
apacheloggerline 3419:55
apacheloggerconnect actually works19:55
apacheloggerso that supports my theory that something about the qdbusvariant is ugly19:55
apacheloggervery much so19:57
apacheloggeranyhow, if we can get the variant sorted, we just need to implement the auth19:57
Quintasan"Jest git" would mean "It's great" in20:03
Quintasanso Git is great :P20:03
ScottKGit is greatly complex20:04
RiddellScottK: LucidNetbookPackaging updated, slight changes to Code Changes and Migration20:05
ScottKRiddell: Thanks.  Looking20:05
ScottKRiddell: Love it. Thanks.20:06
DarkwingDucknixternal: a GMCS? :D I'm an ABH220:35
nixternalaviation boatswain's mate right?20:37
nixternalyup, GMCS, though I still say GMGCS as I am an old school gunner20:38
nixternalI specialize in Guns and not Missiles20:38
DarkwingDuckYes. I worked Crash and Smash on the carrier when I was there.20:38
nixternaloh fun...what are you doing down in san dog? attached to a squadron/ship?20:38
nixternalI was stationed there in coranado for 6 months way back when20:39
DarkwingDuckOh sweet, thats where I work now. I live in the point loma area20:40
nixternalnice...you work in seal beach?20:40
nixternalor just the main san dog base?20:40
DarkwingDuckI work for the command structure. So I have work on all 8 installations that fall under NB Coronado20:42
DarkwingDuckto include San Clemente Island20:43
DarkwingDuckHey, a couple of things I wanted to talk to you about.20:43
nixternalgo for it20:43
DarkwingDuckThe structure of the docs going into Lucid20:43
DarkwingDuckHow did you want to change it?20:44
DarkwingDuckor, rather it changed20:44
nixternalthe structure will be similar to what it is now...instead of docs it will be topics....I am thinking for netbook, maybe we add a netbook directory in the root of kubuntu-docs20:44
DarkwingDuck*nods* that sounds good. Because it built off the main system I'll just have to write docs for interface changes20:45
DarkwingDuckAlso, that e-mail you sent out brought up a question. Do we currently have any translators working on the docs?>20:46
nixternaljust the various translation teams in LP...when we commit a new set of docs, all of the translators get an email letting them know...and they go and translate as necessary20:47
jjessenixternal: we would need to add DarkwingDuck to ubuntu-core-doc to get him commit writes to kubuntu-docs20:47
jjessei was thinking of almost junking the whole lp:kubuntu-docs branch and sort of starting from scratch20:47
nixternalthat's what I am doing now20:47
nixternaljust a replacement...of course not junking so we don't lose commit logs20:48
DarkwingDuckheh, one of these days I'll get around to putting together my membership package :s20:52
* apachelogger is wondering whether tsimpson can get one of the certified qt developers to checkout the problem :P20:57
neversfeldebug 486030 needs a review, it is my first merge, so I am not really shure, if I did all right20:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 486030 in amarok "amarok 2.2.1: new changes from Debian Unstable require merging" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48603020:58
ulysses__jjesse: what do you think about bug 460352?21:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 460352 in ubuntu-translations "Please update kubuntu-docs translation templates in Launchpad" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46035221:03
jjesseulysses__ sorry i don't know much about translations21:06
ulysses__so they aren't neccessary in the kubuntu-docs package?21:07
Quintasanomfg, I have fixed packagekit for Shaman2 :O21:10
jussi01Quintasan: o.O21:16
jussi01Quintasan: you "fixed" packagekit?21:16
Quintasanno :D21:18
Quintasanthere is Shaman2 in playground laying with broken PackageKit support21:18
QuintasanThe change was very trivial, but it still reports errors with dbus, at least it compiles21:19
Quintasanafter "fix" OFC21:19
* apachelogger notes that dbus is the more important part :P21:26
neversfeldemhh, better not use debcommit after a merge :)21:26
apacheloggerbetter merge from debian's packaging repo :P21:28
apacheloggerwill make the log look nicy21:28
ulysses__jjesse: you don't have to know much about translations, you must put them into the kubuntu-docs, and *not* in Lucid, *now*, in Karmic21:30
apacheloggernixternal is in my google reader \o/21:32
nixternalwhat did I do?21:33
apacheloggerget intervud21:33
DarkwingDuckhey nixternal have you seen the new Navy uniforms?21:33
nixternalno I haven't21:34
nixternallooking now21:34
nixternalwelcome to the coast guard21:34
nixternalinteresting...the new women's uniform looks like the old maturnity uniform21:35
nixternalie. shirt untucked, no gig line21:35
DarkwingDuckThe Blue cammies? We look like Jungle Smurfs21:35
nixternaloh wow, they look super silly21:36
nixternalbut I guess you blend in with the water now when you fall in :)21:36
DarkwingDuckAnd I have a khaki shirt :/21:36
nixternalman overboard!21:36
nixternalwhere is he?21:36
DarkwingDuckNO kidding21:36
nixternaloptional "no-shine" boot21:36
nixternalwow, the navy has gotten lazy21:36
apacheloggerlazyness is the key to true enlightenment21:37
DarkwingDuckI will NEVER wear the scuffed boot.21:37
apacheloggerlook at me, I am all enlightened due to all the lights in my room, yet I am also all lazy21:38
DarkwingDuckOh yeah, and they are 115 bucks a set21:38
nixternalso do <e7 wear khakis now?21:39
nixternalahh, at least the dress whites are still bell-bottomed21:39
DarkwingDuckYes. Or Cammies21:39
nixternalI still wear my old dungarees..real pants...jeans with sweet bell bottoms21:39
nixternaland the flat pockets21:40
DarkwingDuckYup! and there are still a god awful load of buttons on the blues21:40
nixternalthere will always be the god awful load of buttons :)21:40
DarkwingDuckAnd that really sucks if you need quick access21:40
nixternalyou gotta learn how to do it man21:40
nixternalyou don't replace the button backs with velcro?21:41
nixternalleave one button good, the rest are velcro21:41
nixternalexcept for inspection of course21:41
DarkwingDuckyup yup21:41
Quintasanapachelogger: lol21:41
DarkwingDucki do... till senior checks21:41
* apachelogger falls over21:41
apacheloggerwhat did I do?21:41
Quintasanapachelogger: sometime I think you should be out masccot21:41
apacheloggerjust imagine21:42
apacheloggerwhat a life that would be21:42
* apachelogger could certainly be a mascot21:42
apacheloggerbut for the time being I better go out and do some socializing before I drown in all them fancy C code here21:42
nixternali got out in 2008, i don't ever remember this new uniform stuff21:43
nixternalahh, summer of 2008 is when it started21:43
* apachelogger puts on his darth vader costume and goes out for some socializing21:43
nixternalright when I got out21:43
DarkwingDuckYou retire?21:44
nixternal35 years old :)21:44
DarkwingDuckHow long did you do?21:45
nixternalretired after 18 years in from the reserves, so I don't get to touch any money for another 30 years :)21:45
Quintasanapachelogger: I'm in you branch, merging your code :321:45
nixternalit was useless for me to stay in for 2 more as I maxed out on points and I was never going to make MC in the reserves21:45
DarkwingDuckahh reserves?21:46
DarkwingDuckYou do any Active time?21:46
nixternalyeah, I got booted off active duty in 1998 after Clinton closed the GMG and GMM ratings into a general GM rating21:46
DarkwingDuckahhhh Dang21:46
nixternalI could have stayed active duty if I wanted to switch rates to a Sea Bee21:47
nixternaldid 7 years active duty21:47
nixternalif I would have hit the 10 year mark, I would have been golden...but I was in the half-way spot w/o tenure21:47
nixternallooking at the pics on navy.mil of the Maersk deal...the maersk captain is shaking the hand of one of my old GM's that worked for me, GM3 Schwoops, and right next to him is GM3 Drinkwater21:48
apacheloggerQuintasan: what code? what branch?21:48
nixternalthat is cool as hell, though I am guessing they are at least GM2's now21:48
Quintasanapachelogger: ubuntuone-client-kde21:49
* apachelogger is producing like 500 sloc in like 3 different languages per day.. hard to keep track21:49
apacheloggerQuintasan: ah, go fix the dbus!21:49
apacheloggerdbus dbus dbus!21:49
QuintasanI wanted a Dropbox client but I don't give a damn what I use as long as it works21:49
* apachelogger suddenly disappears21:49
QuintasanI'm no good at coding, I can only break your code :O21:49
DarkwingDuckI'm up for First in March21:50
nixternalI was given 3rd out of a school, made 2nd my first time, made 1st my first time, got busted dating a marine officer, got busted down to 2nd, then made 1st again just a few months later21:51
DarkwingDuckHeh. Was an E-1 out of school. Made 3rd first up. the first 4 times I took 2nd it was mathematically impossible to advance.21:52
nixternalhow many points are you taking into your e6 exam?21:52
nixternalif they even do points still21:52
DarkwingDuckUm, 2 NAMs, 3 FLOCs and 2 Good Conducts... 15?21:53
DarkwingDuckthey don't do point for warfare devices anymore21:53
nixternalgood deal...how overmanned is ABH these days?21:53
DarkwingDuckROFLMAO Really bad21:54
nixternalya, 15 sounds a bit low then :)21:54
DarkwingDuckI think last march they advanced 2%21:54
nixternalI was stationed at the ABH heaven after my first 6 sea tours, Patuxent River, MD21:54
DarkwingDuckhehehe I did 65 months on the USS Ronald Reagan21:55
nixternalI was lucky, I stayed on my same ship for 6 years... DDG 993 USS Kidd21:56
nixternalI got to go back and do decom on it as I was one of its longest lasting visitors :)21:56
nixternalthe gun mount in the museum has my name on it which is really cool....forward mk45 is all mine!21:56
nixternalso now, unless the Chinese fill in the marks, my name is all over their ship :)21:57
DarkwingDuckYeah, I'm a plank owner for her. That is sweet21:58
DarkwingDuck[14:08:50] <ulysses__> can somebody do something with this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/46035222:36
DarkwingDuck[14:08:52] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 460352 in ubuntu-translations "Please update kubuntu-docs translation templates in Launchpad" [High,Confirmed]22:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 460352 in ubuntu-translations "Please update kubuntu-docs translation templates in Launchpad" [High,Confirmed]22:36
loadusRiddell: Are you busy?23:10
loadusI was looking for the full list of KDE icon names, and the funky infopage said to ask from you for an URL to the list :)23:11
ScottKAnyone using Quassel with postgresql?23:12
faleloadus: guess Riddell is ide ;)23:13
loadusaye, well, it's not horribly important ...23:13
DarkwingDuckQuassel yes. postresql, I don't think I am23:16
ScottKIf you didn't set it up, you aren't using postgresql23:16
tsimpsonScottK: jussi01 does23:24
jussi01ScottK: I am, yes23:24
ScottKjussi01: Could you do us a HowTo on switching?23:24
ScottKjussi01: I find http://bugs.quassel-irc.org/projects/quassel-irc/wiki/PostgreSQL is very Gentoo specific and we need one that'll work for our users.23:25
jussi01ScottK: definately not. I have no idea, it was too long ago and egs had to ssh into my box and fix everything...23:25
ScottKAnyone else?23:25
jussi01ScottK: I might be able to, but at the moment I cant even contemplate anything... cmon, youve seen me today...23:26
ScottKjussi01: Certainly.  Not a rush item.23:26
nixternalScottK: when I tried quassel I believe I used postgresql instead of mysql...there are docs out there already to do that though23:27
ScottKnixternal: Probably not since Quassel doesn't have a mysql back end.23:27
nixternalwell whatever the default isn't then23:28
nixternalerr, is I meant23:28
* nixternal doesn't use gui stuff :p23:28
ScottKRiddell: I updated the kubuntu-netbook spec a bit (added another upgrade issue).  I think it's ready for approval (please set priority too).23:32
JontheEchidnaapachelogger, smarter: Heads up, I moved some files around/modified the buildsystem of knh. You'll probably have to make clean/make23:37
JontheEchidnaalso, KCM stub23:37

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