[06:50] <darkmatter> mac_v: rawr! http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/4121645414/
[07:45]  * mac_v checks it out :)
[07:46] <mac_v> darkmatter: meh.. i like my version better ...   ;)
[07:47] <mac_v> just a sec
[07:47] <darkmatter> :P
[07:52]  * mac_v kicks his dropbox
[08:06] <darkmatter> mac_v: just using the default g-i-t single-canvas/sonar status icons. but hey. at least they're clear/concise :P http://www.flickr.com/photos/92826085@N00/4120955645/
[08:16] <mac_v> ;)
[08:16] <mac_v> darkmatter: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/userstatus.png
[08:17] <darkmatter> cute :)
[08:17] <mac_v> i meant these^ , not the default in karmic ;)
[08:19] <mac_v> darkmatter: is there a pidgin bug report? or something? if the pidgin folks like it i could submit it ;)
[08:20] <darkmatter> I'm just using g-i-ts user-idle fore pidgins extended away. since it's the 'closest' you can get with pidgins dumb statuses :P
[08:20] <darkmatter> mac_v: not a clue. I'm just doing this because I hate inconsistent icons
[08:20] <mac_v> ;)
[08:20] <mac_v> darkmatter: btw , what is the folder in the right corner? desktop?
[08:21] <darkmatter> mac_v: I rebrand/patch/rebuild half my system regularly ;D
[08:22] <darkmatter> mac_v: yup. I'm running Sonar 11.2.5 on openSUSE 11.0
[08:22] <mac_v> darkmatter: lol.. luckily half my system doesnt bug me ;)   else I'd be doing the same
[08:24] <mac_v> darkmatter: hmm , i like the icons for the desktop... i never liked the desktop icon showing a desktop ;p
[08:25] <darkmatter> folder are xdg for the most part now, but some icons still display 'old' styles (even in the latest gnome), so the workaround was symlinking the desktop image to that of the new folders, so at least its consistent between applications.
[08:26] <darkmatter> mac_v: aye. it should be a display with an appropriate panel/icon layout but without its pedistal
[08:26] <darkmatter> mac_v: but the folder is a refreshing change :P
[08:27] <mac_v> yeah
[08:28] <mac_v> darkmatter: like for panel 'show desktop'... the icon of a desktop makes sense... but for the folder of a desktop showing the desktop , was weird
[08:30] <darkmatter> lol.. yeah
[08:31] <darkmatter> but that's gnomes fault. apps are inconsistent to an extent. so when you make a theme designed to fit most apps consistently you end up with little buggery things like that
[08:33] <darkmatter> mac_v: I'll be killing that. I have an 'aero-peek' like setup for showing the desktop. I just need to make a visual cue for the panel of some sort :P
[08:33] <mac_v> darkmatter: hmm , i havent used the panel and the show desktop for a long time , but somehow cairo-dock shows a different icon for the show desktop and the desktop folder
[08:33] <darkmatter> basically it's on a hot corner, I just havent removed the applet yet
[08:34] <mac_v> darkmatter: how did you get aero-peak working?
[08:34] <darkmatter> mac_v: still tweaking the setup. right now the windows are still minimizing at the end, but its the compiz desktop plugins
[08:36] <darkmatter> I may switch it to a 'fly out' like OSX, but whatever. as long as it works
[08:36]  * mac_v now sad that there wont be compiz in gnome 3 :(
[08:36] <mac_v>  i use fly out too
[08:37] <darkmatter> mac_v: I just have this thing as a designer that interactions should be discoverable. hotkeys are awesome, but not very accessible
[08:38]  * mac_v agrees
[08:38] <darkmatter> as in should have a gui level interface as some sort
[08:40] <mac_v> darkmatter: they have a window switcher in gnome3 and it took me time to discover it! I purposefully didnt read the manual and it makes the using gnome3 even harder :/    i'v been meaning to send a mail to the mailing list , but something or the other just keeps me procrastinating ;p
[08:42] <darkmatter> mac_v: yeah. that's why I keep bitching about how gnome-shell is an epic failure. if using an interface (or learning how to use it) doesn't come naturally then there is an issue with it :P
[08:42] <darkmatter> users should NOT have to read manuals imo
[08:43] <mac_v> UI needs to be like plug-n-play ;)
[08:44] <darkmatter> mac_v: that's what I've been designing for three years. plug 'n' play ;D
[08:44] <darkmatter> now I just need to do mockups. but that's going to wait until after I change OS versions
[08:45] <darkmatter> I mean. I have mockups, but they're on paper. it's time to do 'real' ones
[08:45] <mac_v> darkmatter: yeah.. yeah... i'v been hearing that for a long time now ;p
[08:45] <mac_v> ;)
[08:46] <darkmatter> mac_v: surprisingly sanity takes a long time to accomplish. believe it or not
[08:48] <mac_v> darkmatter: true... basically why i havent written to the shell ML , is also the same sanity... i have no alternate idea which is better than the taskbar ;p
[08:48] <darkmatter> hehe
[08:51] <darkmatter> mac_v: I've even figured out the basic aesthetics too. which takes almost as long, since it in tern affects the designs themselves. but as far as ui and aethetics go its turning out ok. aesthetically it's meant to feel natural as opposed to manufactured, more akin to a printed page than 'oh look, I have a bazillion separators!'
[08:52] <darkmatter> from the design end, its about a convergent ui metaphor, so the two basically go hand in hand
[08:53] <mac_v> darkmatter: i think the compiz guys might be pretty pissed that gnome3 doesnt allow compiz... there were plans to make a compizDE too ... so when you get the mockups running , you could show contact the compiz guys too ;)
[08:54] <mac_v> show/contact
[08:56] <darkmatter> mac_v: example. hierarchical structure is over extended in most environments. one of the design elements is to abstract that structural concept, so less trees/clicking through folders, more linear categorization
[08:56] <darkmatter> mac_v: hmmm... never thought of that :D
[09:00] <darkmatter> mac_v: basic ui layout (subject to change after input on the mockups); toolbar (navigation (forward/back) shortcut/library 'shelf', search), then secondary bar (and not fat like in current ui's; home (as in the 'startpage' metaphor (though not web code, and specific to the app/center), breadcrumbs, other bits that may be needed) then content below
[09:03]  * mac_v keeps banging... show me the mockups ;p  /me hates to read ;)
[09:04] <darkmatter> there will be a user home (not the folder, but a starting point in the 'pad' or 'activity center' (havent thought of a name yet :P) that would display the users favorit crap (like favorit activities, tweets, recent stuff, update (as in software notification), etc. configurable of course
[09:05] <darkmatter> the 'home' for the communication service(s) will show recent messaging (im/email/etc)
[09:05] <mac_v> 'lobby' ;)
[09:06] <darkmatter> mac_v: so basically summary 'panes' if you will for different bits of your daily 'puteing
[09:10] <darkmatter> there will be a slab like thingy, but different, categories that when clicked will take you to the home/lobby/whatthehellever. but will also be able to display a list of bits (less like 'recent' items, more like favorite <whatever applies as a title to tha category>, a 'discover' feature where it makes sense as a metaphor, etc)
[09:10] <darkmatter> just as a way of avoiding the need to drowse through stuff
[09:11] <darkmatter> browse*
[09:13] <darkmatter> plus it keeps a somewhat familiar workflow metaphor whilst allowing for a reasonable paradigm shift (thew shift being that this is tasks/activities, as opposed to a button labelled 'activities' that you launch apps from ;P)
[09:15] <darkmatter> well, part of the shift
[09:21] <mac_v> darkmatter: another irritating thing in gnome 3 is the user name :/  ... am i gonna forget my name?
[09:21] <mac_v> ubuntu does that too !
[09:21] <darkmatter> mac_v: at a more technical level, it's about a series of interconnected modular services with guis instead of everything being completely separate. like, for example. globally shared bookmarks/contacts/search and indexing. the 'internet' is a service as opposed to a browser (so basically, you could search the net through the library, and play back a youtube video in the 'player' gui, etc etc etc
[09:21] <darkmatter> mac_v: ouch
[09:21] <mac_v> a constant reminder of the user name on the panel! and what does it do :/
[09:23] <mac_v> darkmatter: hehe , luckily ubuntu [indicator]doesnt support vertical panels , so for me it only displays the icon and the name gets cut ;)
[09:24] <darkmatter> mac_v: silly. mine is a user pic, in a frame, with a status overlay, mouse over presents a 'selector' that shows status/session management if clicked. clicking the pic opens the menu/launchpad/slab/whateveritsname is
[09:25] <mac_v> lol , yeah that was funny too! that would make sense when the setup is an office or multiuser environment..... but for a personal computer , it just redundant
[09:26] <darkmatter> I think using a visual reference to the user makes sense. it's more of a personal touch (as this is personalized /humanized concept as opposed to computer centric. I'm puting the user and their daily do's before all else. plus it also 'fits' with the metaphor as it is used on the web
[09:28] <darkmatter> or maybe have a 'home' icon as a metaphor in place of the picture. as long as it gives an 'I live here' feel as opposed to an 'I have to deal with this crap again *sigh*' feel :)
[09:28] <mac_v> darkmatter: IMO ,it doesnt give a personal feel... its like having your name written on every page of a document
[09:28] <darkmatter> ass the idea is to make the so called desktop personal and friendly
[09:29] <mac_v> home icon is better ;)
[09:32] <darkmatter> mac_v: I meant a user picture, not a name, and not 'everywhere', just on the panel. since one of the things you can do is pin contacts (with a graphical representation) to the panel/shelf/clippything, it seemed reasonable *shrug*
[09:36] <mac_v> darkmatter: hmm , i meant since its a constant presence ... it is like writing a name on every page of the book ... i dont see a reason for the user to be reminded of his/her own face or name... but rather just provide *only* the user status icon  , which is more meaning full... OTOH I'm not sure what/how the pin contacts stuff works , but if that is supposed to give some meaning
[09:37] <mac_v> then not sure if a pic is needed
[09:40] <darkmatter> mac_v: basically. the shelf is dual mode. in compact mode its more like a traditional panel (appearances only), but in 'extended mode' it displayd a higher level of information. the idea is based on what I call replicants, which are basically generic user interfaces for various activities/functions (in a strange way like widgets but non-ghey :P),
[09:43] <darkmatter> mac_v: so for example, the contacts thing: in compact mode it would show a collapsable group of buttons (like the icons on a dock, panel launchers, whatever), he group ass a whole is a replicant. in an extended shelf (or if viewed as a 'flyout' or dragged to the 'desktop', it would display like a buddy list
[09:44] <mac_v> darkmatter: buddy list with images sounds good .. but still i dont think the panel needs my face ;p
[09:45] <mac_v> i'd rather have a generic icon of the running app
[09:46] <darkmatter> and in 'extended mode' the shelf can do advanced grouping of tasks/activities (a concept similar to workspaces.. haven't figured out the gui bits of accessing them yet in terms of navigation). so you could have an 'office' meta activity, an 'internet' one (surfing/communication, etc). each group would display its replicants (basically how switching spaces displays its own window list)
[09:46] <darkmatter> except replicants are persistant until removed
[09:49] <darkmatter> so, you launch a media player. (or play from the libray using the built in media service), replicant appears. it can 'flyout' (like a tooltip with controlls on it) or can be extended (like a miniplayer in the shelf), or dnd to the desktop as a 'widget' (which removes it from the shelf obviously)
[09:50] <darkmatter> they stay where you put them, and are all freely drag n droppable for positioning/grouping/etc
[09:52] <darkmatter> app icons... probably not (apps would be configurable 'components' for viewing/working with data). most likely generic doc icons (like a generic webpage with a favicon overlay, etc)... or something like that
[10:26] <darkmatter> mac_v: but the panel/shelf is the part that is still rough. not so much functionally, but tying things together aesthetically :/
[10:53] <mac_v> ;)
[10:53]  * mac_v bbiab
[11:39] <thundering-light> Erm..what if I have some artwork for ubuntu as ubuntu logo or cd covers?
[11:40] <thundering-light> ?
[11:41] <thundering-light> hello?