DarkwingDuckdang kids00:32
claydohDarkwingDuck: well your kids spell better than my cat and my puppy :)00:35
DarkwingDuckMy one year old LOVES my keyboard00:36
claydohstart 'em early , I wonder if they have typing in preschool yet?00:37
nixternalheh, not around here they don't00:38
DarkwingDuckMy four year old has his own computer.00:38
nixternalbut I am impressed by how quick kids can pick up typing00:38
DarkwingDuckwith ubuntu :D00:38
nixternalmy daughter learned herself by the time she was 500:38
nixternalthough then she was using Slackware :)00:38
claydohmine would too, if I had ever had any00:38
nixternalkids are fun until they are born :p00:38
DarkwingDuckhis computer runs xfce00:39
claydohmy dogs, tho very smart, just don't get computers at all00:39
nixternalmy dog will pee on my computer if it weren't lifted00:39
DarkwingDuckthat you know of...00:39
nixternalI kept wondering why my shit would break, open it up and there was a puddle of dog pee in it00:39
DarkwingDuckclaydoh's dog is a NSA hacker <G>00:39
nixternalok...need a little break from the computer, then I have some wiki stuff to do and some emails, plus more doc work00:40
claydohwouldn't surprise me, my wife can teach our dogs pretty complex stuff actually00:40
nixternalI really need to put Lucid on my netbook and head upstairs to bed with it...much more comfortable working there :)00:40
DarkwingDuckya I'm about to go clean00:40
DarkwingDuckI should prolly DL lucid00:40
* claydoh needs to get arch off his second laptop, and learn how to write code sometime00:41
DarkwingDucknixternal: where do I find it at?00:44
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
ryanakcanixternal: Typo in http://www.nixternal.com/kubuntu/about/C/kde4gnome.html , 'has to many features' should be 'has too many features'01:05
=== jtisme is now known as jtholmes
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: oh mighty dbus master, is there a difference between the session bus and the system bus?01:49
JontheEchidnaor just funky naming schemes on the binding's part?01:49
JontheEchidnanevermind, I'll just read the docs like a good coder01:50
tsimpsonJontheEchidna: they are just the two "common" buses, the system bus typically is for system-wide stuff (like HAL and network manager) and there is only once instance, while the session bus is per-user01:52
JontheEchidnainteresting, thanks.01:52
* JontheEchidna is porting the restricted install dbus bits from update-notifier-kde to C++01:53
JontheEchidnaMan, I just need to keep a simple QObject-based class skeleton file handy.01:53
* tsimpson has "mkinclude" to do that01:55
tsimpsonI just run "mkinclude somefile.h -t QtCore"01:56
tsimpsonsaves valuable seconds :)01:58
DarkwingDuckAnyone know where I get pull Lucid from?02:09
* logipunk apologises for having gone missing for the past week.02:49
* logipunk wonders if anyone else has turned up with the desire to help with marketing and promotion.02:49
ScottKlogipunk: I don't think so, but I've been at the Ubuntu Developer Summit so I may have missed it.02:52
ScottKlogipunk: I know there was some discussion of revamping the web site.  You ought to talk to ryanakca about that.02:52
logipunkScottK: Will do. Thanks.02:53
logipunkOn a lighter note, does anyone else read the Wheel of Time series?02:53
daskreechWho run kubuntuguide.org ?03:38
shtylmanwow...ive never heard of that03:41
daskreechI've just started noticing stuff that I think may be releated to the Qt 4.6 bugs03:41
daskreechshtylman: I know I"m really thinking we should promote them more03:42
shtylmanyea... could be good... seems like we could just have wiki pages for most of it03:42
shtylmanI guess people like that it is all in one place...03:43
shtylmanits a really good guide03:43
shtylmanfor new users03:43
shtylmanhell...even for common stuff I do that I forget03:43
shtylmanwe should probly buy or get kubuntu.com to point to kubuntu.org03:53
daskreechYeah we should promote them more :)03:53
daskreechdoes canonical own kubuntu.org ?03:54
daskreechNightrose: ping03:55
DarkwingDucknixternal: ping03:58
DarkwingDuck-Netnixternal: okay... strange. It connects just fine on my netbook. This is crazy04:27
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: I am not sure it is a good idea to port that without working out a more sensible design first07:13
Nightrosedaskreech: pong08:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 466935 in linux "No Video Output in Karmic with ID 046d:09a1 Logitech, Inc. QuickCam Communicate MP/S5500" [Undecided,Triaged]08:58
ghostcubeguys i need anyone can confirm this08:58
ghostcubethis is gettinsg stupid now08:58
ghostcubei need my webcam for work08:58
ghostcubeand this damn karmic thing doesnt want to do its work with my cam08:59
=== steveire_ is now known as steveire
=== sabdfl1 is now known as sabdfl
jussi01Nightrose: rock on! :D12:10
Nightrosejussi01: :D12:11
jussi01Nightrose: btw, are you going to akademy?12:11
Nightrosei hope so12:12
* jussi01 is also attempting to make it...12:12
Nightrosei missed the last one and regretted it horribly12:12
Tm_Tjussi01: is too far away this time?12:16
jussi01Tm_T: huh?12:17
Tm_Tjussi01: you're not saying "I'm there!" (;12:17
Tm_T"do, there is no try" or what it was anyway12:18
* Tm_T hides12:18
amichairif a bug in lp is dependent on an upstream bug that was fixed but not yet synced/merged, what status (or other bug parameters) should it have?12:23
Riddelldepends on the upstream policy for that12:26
Riddellbut the launchpad answer would be fix committed12:26
jussi01should it not be fix commited in lp when it hits our archive?12:28
Tm_Tfix released yes when there's package available to users12:29
Tm_Tor that's how I would think it12:29
jussi01ok then12:29
Riddellwell it should be linked to the upstream bug for the upstream status12:29
amichaircase in point: https://launchpad.net/bugs/13393712:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 133937 in software-properties "software-properties-kde crashed with error " 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position 27-28"" [Medium,Confirmed]12:30
amichairhow do I link it to upstream?12:31
RiddellAlso affects project -> software-properties12:31
Riddellassuming you have the powars to do that12:32
amichairso fix committed means someone, somewhere commited it, and fix released means it's commited in our trunk?12:32
Riddellfix released for an ubuntu package would mean it's in the archive12:32
Riddellfix committed means someone, somewhere commited it12:32
amichairalso affects? to debian? (see last comment in bug report)12:34
amichairalso what's 'the archive'?12:35
Tm_Tamichair: ubuntu repositories I believe12:37
amichairdoes it know to change status to 'fix committed' automatically when the debian report is 'fixed'?12:39
amichairand I still don't see how I link it to the debian report :-/12:40
amichairit's not true to say this bug 'also affects' gnupg in debian... it's caused by it, not the other way around12:43
amichairdid I set it up correctly?12:45
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: design of the GUI or dbus spec?13:16
amichairJontheEchidna: regarding the bug u asked about yesterday and the short chat above, can u take a look and see the bug report looks ok? something seems off...13:20
JontheEchidnaIn this case Debian is downstream from us13:22
JontheEchidnaand I personally wouldn't mark it fix committed until the fix is committed to the official software-properties branch13:22
amichairJontheEchidna: riddell said above that fix commited means it was commited by someone somewhre (e.g. upstream)13:22
JontheEchidnawait, that debian bug is a gnupg bug, not a software-properties bug13:23
amichairJontheEchidna: exactly13:23
amichairand why doesn't it recognize it? the link does work13:23
JontheEchidnaso then you wouldn't involve software-properties in the bug tracker at all13:23
JontheEchidnayou would need to change it from software-properties to gnupg in Launchpad13:24
amichairbut the reported bug is in sp, and it's root cause is gnupg. but it's sp that crashes.13:24
amichairit's a dependency of sorts13:24
amichairnot a 1:1 bug mapping13:25
JontheEchidnaOh, in that case you'd do "also affects distro", then mark it as also affecting gnupg in Ubuntu13:26
amichairinstead of the gnupg in debian?13:26
amichairor in addition?13:26
JontheEchidnaboth, I'd say13:27
JontheEchidnaSo we can track upstream/Debian for gnupg and track it downstream here as well13:27
amichairok, added it13:27
amichairany idea why the debbugs one sais the bug doesn't exist, even though it links to it?13:28
JontheEchidnanope :(13:28
amichairJontheEchidna: ok, now what should the status be for the 3 affects sections?13:29
amichairoh wait, why did it also add an extra intrepid there?13:29
JontheEchidnaum, dunno. You could close that one as invalid13:29
JontheEchidnaI'd put in progress for software-properties (Ubuntu)13:30
* amichair is all confused with this bug tracker13:30
JontheEchidnaFix committed for gnupg (Ubuntu)13:30
JontheEchidnathen the upstream bug watcher for gnupg (Debian) should take care of itself13:30
amichairand sp? fix committed?13:31
amichairok, does it look right now?13:31
JontheEchidnawell, that's really just semantics :P13:32
JontheEchidnaoh, whoop. wrong chan13:33
JontheEchidnalooks good, I'll just invalidate the intrepid task here...13:33
amichairI'm sure it took less time to fix the darn bug[ger] :-)13:33
JontheEchidna(one popped up for software-properties)13:33
amichairthe one for sp was there before, maybe it used to be real13:34
JontheEchidnaoh, maybe13:34
JontheEchidnabut it's definitely not fixed in intrepid, so. ;-)13:34
amichairand once it picks up the debian report it will automatically change that one to fix committed?13:36
Riddellooh, markey and Mamarok had a release party with real pizza!13:38
JontheEchidnaamichair: well, it's already marked fix committed for gnupg in Ubuntu since a fix was committed and released in debian13:39
JontheEchidnasomebody just has to merge gnupg from Debian, then they can close the bug for gnupg in debian/changelog13:39
amichairJontheEchidna: just a general question - it syncs the status automatically from upstreams?13:39
JontheEchidnafor the gnupg (Debian) task, yes.13:40
JontheEchidnabut not instantly. It does take a bit of time for the upstream bug watcher to update the status13:40
amichairok then.13:40
amichairJontheEchidna: thanks a bunch for ur time and explanations...13:40
JontheEchidnait should show up as fix released in a day or so13:40
JontheEchidnaoh, no problem. It is a bit confusing, looking back at it. :)13:41
amichairJontheEchidna: I'm at the question-asking stage equivalent of a 5 year old :-)13:41
JontheEchidnaI think we can blame a lot of this on the Launchpad UI, which is the popular thing to do. :P13:41
amichairI actually like it13:41
amichairJontheEchidna: btw reagarding youtube-dl, the syncrequest didn't work, it said it can't find it in sid (even though I saw it listed in website)13:42
JontheEchidnawell, in general the ajaxy goodness is awesome, but there are definite design issues in some places13:42
ScottKI think most of the people that don't like it are long time users who liked older versions better.13:43
JontheEchidnaHmm "requestsync --lp -d sid youtube-dl lucid" seems to be working for me13:43
amichairJontheEchidna: well it didn't for me yesterday :-)13:44
JontheEchidnaif it doesn't work for you today I could take care of it if you'd like13:44
amichairE: 'youtube-dl' doesn't appear to exist in Debian 'sid'13:44
amichairoh wait, with --lp it gives me a different error, something about credentials. but still a bug.13:45
JontheEchidnaI think --lp looks for a firefox cookie to find out who you are on launchpad, or at least it did so in the past13:46
JontheEchidnaI use it because the normal email method won't work for me for some reason13:46
amichairwell that first error msg is a problem in any case... dunno what that's about13:48
markeyoh yes, the pizza was great13:49
markeyFrutti di Mare, in fact13:49
amichairJontheEchidna: well I just downloaded it directly from homepage, it's just a single py file with no depends. there are 2 bugs open about this in lp, so someone will hopefully pick them up for the LTS.13:50
JontheEchidnaI'll just file the sync request now so that it gets on the archive admin's radar13:51
amichairJontheEchidna: k, thanks13:51
JontheEchidnabug 48710413:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 487104 in youtube-dl "Sync youtube-dl 2009.09.13-1 (universe) from Debian sid (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48710413:51
amichairJontheEchidna: u the dude, dude!13:53
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: both13:54
apacheloggeralso, if dbus at all13:54
* apachelogger needs to go find something to eat13:54
JontheEchidnaok, cool. Right now we're quite flexible in regards to changing the dbus interface.13:57
JontheEchidnaThe ui too13:57
JontheEchidnaIf we could do away with the "let's keep a list of packages in update-notifier-kde" approach that would be great.14:00
JontheEchidnaIf the app could pass a qstringlist of all the packages we should check for, I think that would be better14:00
JontheEchidnainstead of just passing one package, then we see what category it's in, then offer all packages in $CATGEGORY14:01
seeleooh.. hmm14:05
seelei got a notification from kpackagekit saying i got updates14:05
seelebut i dont see an icon on the toolbar to click and start the update14:05
JontheEchidnahmm, doing away with the u-n-k list would mean we'd want a third argument to determine whether to present it as a multimedia package or a semantic desktop package14:05
JontheEchidnaseele: the notification should have a button on it to launch the updates process14:06
JontheEchidnawell, unless you're using Ayatana notifications, in which case you have to start KPK manually :(14:07
seeleJontheEchidna: i14:07
seelem using ayatana, heh14:07
JontheEchidnaheh, yep. that explains it14:08
seelethis is a problem, is ayatana supposed to launch kpk?14:08
Tm_Tseele: busy?14:08
Riddellseele: with ayatana you have to launch kpackagekit yourself14:08
* txwikinger is back at work14:09
seeleRiddell: that is stupid14:10
seelefirst off, "what is kpackagekit"14:10
seelesecond, the message inst in the MI queue anymore14:10
seelethird, kpackagekit isnt in the kickoff menui14:11
seeleso tell me how we expect people to update?14:11
Riddellseele: as the most notable case of a notification benefiting from actions, it's the main reason why people argue against ayatana14:12
Riddellubuntu desktop turned it into a dialogue box14:13
JontheEchidnaKPackageKit shows up in System for me in Kickoff14:13
seelehow is gnome handling updates? launching the update automatically?14:13
seeleJontheEchidna: oh ho, youre right. i missed it when i was looking for it14:13
* amichair thinks kpackagekit and systemsettings should both be top-level easiest-to-find in K menu14:13
JontheEchidnaanyways, the user has to hunt to find KPackageKit14:13
seelebut it still requires people to remember the name, and the reminder is gone because the queue is cleared14:13
ghostcubehmmm are you discussing update notify oO14:14
ghostcubeits a bit strange in new kde to say it political correct14:14
ScottKWe're dropping the ayatana notification patches for Lucid anyway14:14
Riddellkpackagekit needs usability love, we all know that14:14
seeleScottK: i didnt hear, that is good to know14:14
seeleRiddell: is the dev still active? i thought the problem was we didnt have anyone who could do anything very complicated14:14
ScottKagateau is going to do it in a separate package for Universe if he has time.14:14
amichairis kpackagekit self maintained or upstream?14:15
Riddellseele meet dantti14:15
Riddellamichair: dantti is upstream14:15
Riddellthe main advantage of it for us is that it isn't self maintained14:15
ghostcubewhy isnt synaptic posted to qt14:16
ghostcubeso there is synaptic gnome and kde ?14:16
ghostcubeits still one of the best in the wild14:16
ghostcubeported not posted14:16
seeledantti: *wave*14:16
amichairRiddell: when software-props is bug free, maybe I can migrate upstream14:17
danttiwhat's up :P14:20
Riddellamichair: I assumed you were working with the upstream branch, I think there is only an upstream branch14:20
amichairRiddell: dunno... iirc we already discussed the duplicity of sp. but what I meant is that I can look into kpackagekit if it needs help.14:23
Riddellmain problem with doing any kpackagekit work currently is we're a release behind due to no policykit-1 for KDE14:24
Riddellbut there's plenty stuff I think could be tidied up in it, e.g. installing software uses about three dialogues all of which are too complex when it should just be a single progress bar dialogue plus policykit auth one14:26
Riddellbut it needs a usability spod talking to dantti about really :)14:26
danttiRiddell: i removed that useless dialog to review the transaction14:27
danttibut it won't be released till i finish the o.f.pk session interface...14:27
Riddelldantti: what's that? (o.f.pk session interface)14:28
danttiRiddell: org.freedesktop.PackageKit DBus interface14:29
danttiwhich allows 3rd party applications to do things without coding a new KPK14:30
Riddellah hah14:30
danttilike installPackages('foo,bar') and KPK does all the magic..14:30
Riddellseele: this may interest you https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidAyatanaIntegration14:31
danttiRiddell: select behavior on the package list has some new ideas but i didn't had time to code yet..14:33
Riddelldantti: you're a busy guy :)14:35
Riddellrgreening: home ok?  jetlag not too bad?14:36
danttiRiddell: hehe, yes, I'll be even busier next month when the babies comes...14:36
danttiRiddell: btw seems like colin didn't like my last idea (dunno why) and they drafted a new idea far more complex.. :P14:37
danttiRiddell: yup... a couple (a boy and a girl)14:38
Tm_Tdantti: whoppidoo14:38
Tm_Tdantti: busy times ahead (:14:38
danttiyep... :P14:39
Riddelldantii->clone()  clever idea, more kpackagekit coders to come :)14:40
Riddellhttp://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/kubuntu-9-10.html  "Kubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala is very, very nice. It's a pleasant surprise. And it's better than Ubuntu." cor14:41
amichairwhere do I find that wallpaper?14:43
Riddellno idea14:43
dantti"Compared to Synaptic, KPackageKit is slower" should try aptcc :P14:48
Riddellinstalling packages is never going to be fast14:49
danttiRiddell: but at least search for them should be ;)14:50
ScottKRiddell: Nice.  We should get that on the reviews page of the web site.14:50
danttiRiddell: + aptcc has a parser to know what's going on on the installation14:50
danttilike unpacking.. and such..14:50
amichairwhat's kpk written in?14:52
RiddellScottK: interesting how most of his complains are stuff we have lucid plans for14:52
ScottKRiddell: Perfect.14:52
Riddellamichair: lots of things, it's a multi layer abstraction14:52
rgreeningRiddell: hey, nope, not bad at all14:52
ScottKRiddell: Reading on #kde-devel, do we have security patches that need doing:[09:39:24] <icwiener> Might be a stupid question, but is http://securityreason.com/it_news/0/0x31 known by people who can fix it?14:53
ScottK[09:40:09] <DxSadEagle> icwiener: A fix was commited recently14:53
danttiamichair: cpp14:53
txwikingerWow.. .the world has gone mad - M$ receives a patent for sudo http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009111109492339014:54
rgreeningtxwikinger: wtf?14:54
RiddellScottK: the top one at http://www.kde.org/info/security/ hasn't been done yet14:54
txwikingerwell.. Bilski is at the Supreme Court.. that decision will hav an impact on all software patents14:55
ScottKRiddell: Aye, this sounds like a different one.14:56
mistryniteshnixternal: i'm interested in updating the kubuntu documentation... already joined the contributors team and going through the doc-team wiki... will need proper directions15:06
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: how about desktop files :P15:09
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: and let apps either request installation of one particular package (given it is in $cache of possible packages) or a whole category15:10
apacheloggeroh dear15:10
apacheloggermon -  thu: gluhwein from the biomedical engineering dudes15:11
apacheloggerfrom wed - thu also from the chemistry dudes15:11
apacheloggerand on thu also from the VT dudes, whatever VT stands for :D15:12
JontheEchidnaIn general the .desktop system would be great. I'm just a bit unsure that changing the entire spec and re-patching all of our apps is a good thing for an LTS15:13
ScottKPlease no.15:16
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: from that perspective knh cant go in anyway15:16
apacheloggerthere are bound to be issues15:16
JontheEchidnaWell, if we're going to be reckless. At least we should be carefully reckless :P15:16
Riddellif you're talking about codec etc package install, the long term way should be with the kpackagkit interface dantti was talking about earlier15:17
Riddellhi mistrynitesh, stay around and nixternal will appear at some point15:17
nixternalsome point I always appear :)15:18
nixternalhowdy mistrynitesh!15:18
nixternalheh, Ubuntu Software Center is definitely written with GTK only in mind15:19
nixternalKPackageKit could be made a bit easier on the eyes15:19
* apachelogger grumbles over the weirdness in ubuntuone's syncdaemon -.-15:21
ScottKRiddell: Did you ever get a chance to talk to mvo about porting Software Center?15:22
davmor3nixternal: to be fair most of the gfx work is done in webkit15:22
apacheloggerRiddell: oh, btw, about kbookmark sync for ubuntuone, in the long run it is ultimately best to have that done via akonadi, so the couchdb interaction is handled by akonadi only, everything else just interacts with akonadi15:23
ScottKdavmor3: Yes, but there's still 384 gtk calls and a glib mainloop.  It'll need some rearchitecting to be friendly to multiple front ends.15:23
apacheloggerthat said akondi probably needs internal cross syncing (i.e. allow my filebased vcard resource to autosync with the couchdb resource)15:23
nixternaldavmor3: ya, checking out the latest kpackagekit now15:24
ScottKSomewhat like rgreening's head pounding over usb-creator last cycle, but an order of magnitude harder.15:24
apacheloggerso the application places the information once and doesnt even have to care about it going to couchdb as well15:24
JontheEchidnaRiddell: so in the future, applications can call packagekit via D-Bus to install codecs and such without the help of an external app/daemon?15:24
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: the idea is to do it via cmdline args I think15:25
apacheloggeryou can already see the begining of this15:25
JontheEchidnaIf so, a drop-in implementation of the current org.kubuntu.restrictedInstall D-Bus API for Kubuntu Notification Helper would be perfect until then.15:25
RiddellJontheEchidna: well it'll need the packagekit daemon but nothing much beyond that15:25
JontheEchidnabasically we won't have to do anything in kubuntu-notification-helper, once the apps can call PackageKit15:26
* rgreening wishes ubuntu software engineering would adopt the MVC architechture and write with explicit thoughts on front-end/back-end...15:26
davmor3ScottK: Ah I see15:26
* ScottK thinks rgreening should blog about it.15:27
rgreeninghmm. hornets nest...15:27
* apachelogger broke his gnome ubuntuone applet :D15:28
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: oh, another thing I wanted to discuss with you. Now that we have a KCM, we give the user an opportunity to modify the settings outside of the app15:28
nixternalrgreening: don't be scared...I have pissed off many by blogging in the hornets nest...see, you and I are big enough to squash the hornets though :D15:28
JontheEchidnak, I was thinking that too15:28
apacheloggerI think kwin got a reference implementation for that15:28
nixternaljust don't fall asleep in the hornets nest though, you might suck one up into your nose :p15:29
rgreeningnixternal: hah.... true.. its not like I am being hired by them...15:29
JontheEchidnaooh, I should check kwin out then15:29
nixternalrgreening: right, you don't have to worry, they don't hire anyone that idles in this channel :p15:29
apacheloggerindeed I broke my ubuntuone daemon15:30
apacheloggerI wonder how15:30
ScottKapachelogger: statik said something at UDS about them planing on doing some work to split out front end/back end for Ubuntu One client to make stuff like a KDE front end easier.15:31
ScottKYou might want to ask of get nixternal to use his local connection to find out what they are planning15:31
apacheloggernixternal: what they are planning?15:32
apacheloggerScottK: thx15:32
* apachelogger notes that the real pitfalls with frontend speration is that currently auth is handled inside the applet and stuff is stored in the gnome-keyring15:33
nixternaloh yeah, forgot about that connection :)15:35
rgreeningapachelogger: policykit fixes those issues15:36
rgreeningapachelogger: we used policykit for usb-creator15:36
apacheloggerrgreening: what issues?15:36
apacheloggerauth as in oauth to the ubuntuone server15:36
apacheloggernothing polkit can do here :)15:36
apacheloggerthe fdo shared keyring stuff would help though15:37
* apachelogger blinks15:41
rgreeningA great talk on an app for getting, launching and testing ISO's from UDS... an app called testdrive. we should promote using this for out testers this cycle: https://launchpad.net/~testdrive/+archive/ppa15:41
apacheloggerapparently the freakin daemon crashes15:41
nixternalrgreening: testdrive is nice :)15:42
nixternalthough that only allows you to test the live cd environment15:42
rgreeningmaybe we can add this (once uploaded to archive) as a recommends on kubuntu-dev-tools15:42
nixternalI would like to add to that script the option to create the img and qcow, and then install15:43
nixternalif using qemu of course15:43
* apachelogger is suprised how crappy the ubuntu one web interface is15:43
rgreeningnixternal: talk to dustin.. he's open for suggestions15:43
nixternalrgreening: that he is15:43
nixternalok, I need some coding tasks for in between doc writing15:44
nixternalotherwise I will burn out15:44
Riddellnixternal: since you have mistrynitesh_ and DarkwingDuck volunteering for docs tasks maybe start by working out what they can do?15:45
nixternalDarkwingDuck is already rocking on the netbook stuff...next step is to make sure his work is good, he understands bzr, and then give him commit access...which I am sure is going to happen rather quickly...as he seems to be rocking away w/o many questions, and without me telling him a damn thing he figured out the workflow 110% on his own...and that isn't even documented anywhere :)15:46
nixternalwaiting for mistrynitesh_ to respond :)15:46
mistrynitesh_nixternal, sorry got disconnected for a while, so out of sync15:47
mistrynitesh_as for what i can do... i satisfy only the first two qualifications as you mentioned in the email15:49
mistrynitesh_i need to learn about docbook/xml and bzr15:51
nixternalwhich were? :p  I forgot them already15:51
nixternalhow are your HTML or other markup language skills?15:51
nixternalif I were to ask for a simple web page could you do it?15:51
mistrynitesh_nixternal, i use kubuntu fairly well and can read and write english... can that help?15:51
nixternalmost definitely15:51
nixternalthe reason I ask about the web page thing, is because docbook is simple markup. there are a ton of tags that can be used, however we probably only use about 10 of the available tags...maybe a little more15:52
nixternalonce you take a look at the old docs, compare them to what you see in KHelpCenter, you can learn it fairly quickly15:52
nixternalwe already have a template for our docs, so the major meat and potatos have already been covered...you just need to fill in the space between the <sect1> tags, so really you might use 5 tags15:54
nixternal<sect1> at least, maybe a <sect2> here or there, <title>, <para>, <itemizedlist>, <listitem>, <ulink>...and if you use an image there are a few more tags...pretty easy actually15:55
danttinixternal: what's your suggestion then?15:58
danttinixternal: *to kpk...15:58
nixternalahh, I knew your name looked familiar....I just realized we are using an antique pk/kpk...the new stuff is nice :)15:59
danttinixternal: k :P if you have some suggestions please say so :D16:02
=== mistrynitesh_ is now known as mistrynitesh
nixternalhrmm, I see a ftbfs patch in our kpk in karmic....where is the ftwp patch (failed to work properly) :p16:13
=== rdieter_work is now known as rdieter_
seeleRiddell: that document is confusing, i thought ScottK said we are dropping ayatana notifications in Lucid16:19
ScottKseele: That's all about systray stuff.  The one notification thing we agreed to was to accept patches to make actionless notifications from KDE apps sane if someone was running them from Ubuntu16:20
=== rdieter_ is now known as rdieter_work
ScottKRiddell: I read on kde-devel that we'll need to either patch our Qt phonon or somehow switch back to the KDE one due to the recent Pulse Audio integration changes.16:30
Tm_TScottK: this too? http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-commits&m=125867642311944&w=216:31
ScottKTm_T: OK.16:32
ScottKRiddell: It might be nice if some distro people complained to Qt about maybe updating Phonon before release ....16:32
RiddellScottK: oh we do16:33
RiddellI think the current answer is "not for 4.6.0, maybe for 4.6.1"16:33
ScottKOK.  That actually works reasonably well for is, I'd think.16:35
Riddelloh qtwebkit, do you really need to take an hour to link?16:40
Tm_TRiddell: khtml is slow to build too...16:41
Riddellseele: "ayatana-notifications will not be kept as a patch"16:42
Riddellwhich actually I think is unnecessary16:48
nixternalNightrose: for your junior jobs thing, myself and jcastro had an idea of like an "open source craigslist" where people could post stuff like that...I actually had/have a mockup for an Ubuntu one we dubbed "Ubuntu Wanted"16:49
Nightrosenixternal: well the problem is we have enough of those places already...16:50
Nightroseand none of them well maintained16:50
ScottKThe bigger problem is it often takes experienced people more time to mark something junior job than to fix it themselves.16:50
Nightroseso honestly i don't want yet another place to post junior jobs to16:50
nixternaldo you have a link to one of those places that isn't a bug tracker or wiki page?16:51
ScottKSo they need to make a decision to invest the time in getting new contributors.16:51
nixternalScottK: yeah, and also remember that many of the experienced people are 'scratching their own itch' and they don't want someone elses fingers doing the scratching some times :)16:51
Nightrosenixternal: mostly bug trackers and wiki pages afaict16:52
nixternalI think all of the documentation EVERYWHERE concerning "Getting Involved" or "Contributing" needs to be maintained first....pretty much all of it is out of date16:53
RiddellI don't see why you wouldn't16:53
nixternalRiddell: I don't see why either, but it just happens that way16:53
ScottKnixternal: I don't know anyone that doesn't want help.  The problem is you have to invest in getting  useful help (like we do with #ubuntu-motu) and most people just want the help and won't invest in gettting it.16:53
nixternalScottK: yeah, which is a lot of the users I have noticed16:54
nixternalI figure in time that will change, as many of the users here are coming from Windows, and are used to not being able to do anything to help16:54
Tm_Tnixternal: you can see something similar in support channels, people are not fancy to tell things enough so they could be helped16:55
Tm_Tor so I feel sometimes anyway16:55
nixternaland people who aren't used to being able to help or contribute, end up trying it out, and either jumping in too deep or too quick, leading to either burn out or an overwhelming experience16:55
nixternalTm_T: ya, I have noticed it as well...which is weird....most people who come from a windows background, when they have an issue, there is only one place to go, and that is Google...err, 2 places, the other being their techy friend16:56
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: http://gitorious.org/ubuntuone-client-kde/ubuntuone-client-kde/commit/8731c06a5eb4610f657ed1ac0abbba1fdc8da89317:11
JontheEchidnahmm, KJob, eh. Never worked with that before17:13
JontheEchidnathis is supposed to make a fancy progress dialog?17:13
apacheloggerme either :P17:13
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: http://aplg.kollide.net/screencasts/ubuntuone-kde-kjob1.ogv17:13
apacheloggersupposed to17:14
apacheloggerthe progress is fancy17:14
apacheloggerthe dialog is not17:14
* apachelogger would like a combo of progress bar + regular notification widget17:14
JontheEchidnachrome's ogg player is fancy17:15
ScottKapachelogger: Maybe ask debfx what he did for brightness beautifulness right before release (had to drop it due to string additions, but it was pretty)17:15
apacheloggerdebfx: what did you do for brightness beautifulness right before release?17:15
apacheloggerindeed a screenshot would be interesting :D17:16
debfxapachelogger: the code was from kosd: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KOSD?content=8145717:16
apacheloggerosd doesnt qualify anyway :|17:16
apacheloggerdebfx: thanks though17:16
apacheloggerScottK: I think upstream just should fix their classes :P17:17
ScottKSure.  Get them right on that.17:17
* apachelogger doesnt see why the kjob ui presentation can't hold some fancy icon and more dynamic text17:17
ScottKdebfx: Have you thought about stuff you'd be interested in helping with this cycle?  You did some really good stuff at the end in Karmic.17:18
* apachelogger is wondering whether reimplementing knotificationitem would help17:19
apacheloggerJontheEchidna, ScottK: I suppose we only have the following options: a) reinvent the wheel b) do what the gnome ui does and abuse tooltips for progress indication (which btw would still look hotter than gnome) c) poke upstram and start whining17:28
ScottKapachelogger: My vote would be start with C and fall back to B if C doesn't work.17:29
JontheEchidnamaybe a mixture of b and c?17:29
apacheloggeryeah, that could be done17:29
* apachelogger thinks that JontheEchidna would be perfect to implement c :P17:29
amichairapachelogger: I'm not sure what exactly you're discussing, but copying a file shows a progressbar in notification... does that help?17:32
JontheEchidnaThat's what he's finding to be too limited for his usecase17:35
amichairoh, it sounded like missing progress indication. nm.17:36
JontheEchidnaYeah, he has the progress notification, but he wants to put in a bit of text too to show what's going on17:37
amichairspeaking of, there's no more a pause/cancel option in the notification when copying a file as there used to be :-(17:37
amichairit does make sense to be able to put any widget in the notification so apps can go crazy if they need to (and simple defaults if they don't)17:40
JontheEchidnaprobably something to discuss with KDE17:46
JontheEchidnathough I would say that it would probably be better to just be able to pass a string and maybe an icon along17:47
JontheEchidnay'know, the whole data/presenatation separation thing17:47
amichairthose are the simple defaults I was referring to :-)17:48
amichairoh wait... when clicked in the wierd icon in th ecorner, it opens up a larger copy dialog, with pause, stop, text, button, mb copied... a whole lot of stuff17:50
JontheEchidnaargh. What's wrong: Object::connect: No such signal QListWidget::itemChanged(QListWidgetItem *item)17:51
amichairit looks pretty flexible actually...17:51
JontheEchidnaconnect(listWidget, SIGNAL(itemChanged(QListWidgetItem *item)), SLOT(packageToggled(QListWidgetItem *item)));17:51
* JontheEchidna fiddles with things17:53
amichairJontheEchidna: are those supposed to be strings? or only in py?17:53
JontheEchidnaonly in python17:53
SputJontheEchidna: you're not supposed to have variable names in the connect()18:00
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: http://aplg.kollide.net/screencasts/ubuntuone-kde2.ogv18:00
rgreeningkonqueror + akonadi = bookmarks as a resource Riddell.. its in for 4.4 haha18:00
apacheloggernow we just need to mature the couchdb stuff along18:01
JontheEchidnaI originally tried connect(listWidget, SIGNAL(itemChanged(const QListWidgetItem &)), SLOT(packageToggled(const QListWidgetItem &)));18:01
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
SputJontheEchidna: well, what's the signal's signature?18:02
JontheEchidnavoid QListWidget::itemChanged ( QListWidgetItem * item ) ?18:02
Sputso use QListWidgetItem *18:03
Sputbut no variable name :)18:03
SputSIGNAL() and SLOT() are string-based18:03
Quintasan|Szelapachelogger: can you do me favour? I need  someone to test Parley from karmic-proposed and tell whether the patch elimates the issue or not. I'm ill and it doesnt looks like I will be able to get onto my machine this weel '18:03
Quintasan|Szelapachelogger: the problem is that Parley displays a nag messgae that few scripts are not working18:04
JontheEchidnaoh, that worked. I'm sure I tried that at one point... maybe I forgot make install once18:04
JontheEchidnaSput: thanks18:04
SputI've suffered from that mistake before :)18:05
* rgreening is reading the kde 4.4 feature list... and notes "DONE Kopete Create avatars from a webcam deviceAlex Fiestas <alex@eyeos.org >"18:06
rgreeningUbuntu has a UDS spec for this, and we get it for free... YAY!18:06
JontheEchidnaHow would I pass on the QListWidgetItem to my SLOT?18:07
amichairso they are strings, but the quotes are in the macro or something?18:07
apacheloggerQuintasan|Szel: maybe you should write a maily :)18:07
apacheloggeror I could write a maily :)18:08
apacheloggersomeone really needs to write a maily though :)18:08
* apachelogger fix0rs a bug18:08
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: oh, and sweetness on the latest .ogg18:08
JontheEchidnawell, tooltip abuse sweetness :D18:08
apacheloggerwell, the kstatusnotifieritem tooltip is made to be abused18:08
debfxScottK: I'm definitely interested in the firefox kde integration. is there a list of things that need attention?18:09
apacheloggerit is way too hot18:09
apacheloggerjust compare it with a regular ksystrayicon tooltip18:09
apacheloggerthis is so superior to gnome :P18:09
ScottKRiddell: ^^^ debfx wants the list of stuff to work on.18:09
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: there is a bug in the screencast :P18:09
JontheEchidna"respect mah superioritah"18:09
Quintasan|Szelapachelogger: well I would but that fcking phone disconnects everytime I do something important :S18:09
apacheloggerfix0red now18:09
apacheloggerQuintasan|Szel: got a bug numba at least?18:10
debfxis ubuntu one going to get client side encryption anytime soon? I think it's pretty useless without it18:10
Quintasan|Szelhmm, let me check18:10
* txwikinger agrees with rgreening about MVC18:10
Quintasan|Szelapachelogger: bug 48480218:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 484802 in kdeedu "SRU: Parley fails to initialize Python scripts" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48480218:10
Riddelldebfx: a list of things that need attention for firefox KDE integration?18:11
Quintasan|Szelrgreening:  but the bug about links in status messages not being clickable is in BZ since 3.5 :P18:11
debfxRiddell: kubuntu in general18:11
Riddelldebfx: it's all in the specs at KubuntuLucidSpecs, I'll be turning them into a Todo list in the next day or so18:12
rgreeningQuintasan|Szel: ?18:13
Riddelldebfx: but for firefox if you can do debdiffs against current lucid packages with the latest suse patches that would be great, and submit the kmozillathing to revu18:13
rgreeningKDE + Firefox seems a strange marriage, I wonder what the offspring will look like :)18:14
rgreeningshtylman hasn't told me to use chromium yet today...18:15
JontheEchidnause chromium :D18:16
JontheEchidnait's sweet18:16
JontheEchidnaand yay! Selection is working now18:19
Quintasan|Szelrgreening: FirefoKs? :D18:20
apacheloggeremit mailSent();18:24
JontheEchidnaemit installParleyCalled();18:29
ScottKemit goFindThePowerCable();18:30
ScottKBefore the battery dies entirely18:30
apacheloggeroh my18:31
debfxRiddell: currently kmozillahelper uses the firefox icon in the open/save dialogs, but a) ubuntu has different brandings with different icon names and b) kmozillahelper can also be called from other applications18:36
apacheloggerI knew it ...18:36
* apachelogger leaves for first, but probably not last gluhwein this week -.-18:37
debfxi'll just use the folder icon18:41
Nightroseapachelogger: i still get an error about wiktionary-sound when starting parley18:44
Nightroseall up to date with proposed enabled18:44
ScottKRiddell: I got a security minion possibly looking into the KDE stuff we discussed earlier18:48
dhillon-v10nixternal, so, how are we going about the docs. any specifcs that you want to target first19:21
rgreeningRiddell: Can you update the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-lucid-file-sharing spec and assign to me?19:54
ScottKAny suggestions on http://paste.ubuntu.com/326337/ - Quassel 0.5.1 gets through configure fine on Karmic, so I expect it's a bug in our Qt 4.6.20:11
ScottKJontheEchidna: Would you please link me on your kubuntu-dev application again?20:15
JontheEchidnaScottK: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JonathanThomas/KubuntuDevApplication20:15
JontheEchidnaNo prob.20:16
JontheEchidna\o/ codec installer working just as it does in update-notifier-kde20:16
JontheEchidnaI need to blog soon20:22
* txwikinger wonders why kwin is crashing all the time20:41
ScottKtxwikinger: What video?  Pretty stable here with my Intel stuff20:43
DaskreechIs the Phonon rebuild happening?20:49
ScottKJontheEchidna: Commented.  I don't think you'll be upset.20:52
DaskreechAh Lucid forces grub220:52
ScottKOn install, but not upgrade20:53
JontheEchidnaScottK: thank you very much20:54
JontheEchidnaWhere do I submit the application once it's complete?20:54
ScottKJontheEchidna: Does the process document say?20:54
ScottKIf not, it's a bug in the process.20:55
* JontheEchidna tries to recall the wiki page for the process20:55
JontheEchidnaok, kubuntu-devel20:55
JontheEchidnargreening: You were wondering about kubuntu-dev too^20:56
rgreeningty JontheEchidna21:01
rgreeningRiddell: ping ping ping21:01
rgreeningRiddell: I've written the spec for filesharing. However, I'd like you to give it a review...21:02
rgreeningRiddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidFileSharing21:02
rgreeningRiddell: also, I need you to assign the LP blueprint to me as well...21:03
txwikingerScottK: I have Intel too21:05
txwikingerI think there was some dbus problem21:05
* txwikinger did the m$ fix21:05
txwikingerwell.. that does not work either21:25
txwikingersomehow I have a dbus-daemon sucking 100% CPU21:26
txwikingerand it gets restarted everytime I restart the computer, but as my user account.. i.e. it is started by kde21:26
JontheEchidnahttp://imagebin.ca/view/5MpSGuP.html <- codec notification, now it can tell you what wants to install things21:28
* JontheEchidna thinks restrictively-licensed is less scary than "restricted packages"21:28
txwikingerWhere is the konqueror history gone?21:49
Daskreechwow the Qt 4.6 update is really screing stuff up21:56
txwikingerwell.. my system has already problems before the update :)21:59
ryanakcaRiddell: agy replied to the RT22:10
DaskreechKonqueror randomly can't visit websites Skype crashes everytime I answer someone Phonon is screwed up Kopete only connects if I open it close it then open it again22:16
DaskreechAh notifications don't work22:27
DaskreechWell non plasma ones22:27
JontheEchidna4.6 works fairly well for me. The only thing is that plasma crashes 1/4 times when I open new windows. (KPixmapCache crash, so not really plasma's fault)22:46
DaskreechI run plasma like 1/2 of the time22:47
Daskreechactually maybe 1/422:54

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