[00:31] <DarkwingDuck> ZncVT7hB
[00:31] <DarkwingDuck> NNDIUEkkdk877akjdn
[00:32] <DarkwingDuck> dang kids
[00:35] <claydoh> DarkwingDuck: well your kids spell better than my cat and my puppy :)
[00:36] <DarkwingDuck> LOL
[00:36] <DarkwingDuck> My one year old LOVES my keyboard
[00:37] <claydoh> start 'em early , I wonder if they have typing in preschool yet?
[00:38] <nixternal> heh, not around here they don't
[00:38] <DarkwingDuck> My four year old has his own computer.
[00:38] <nixternal> but I am impressed by how quick kids can pick up typing
[00:38] <DarkwingDuck> with ubuntu :D
[00:38] <nixternal> my daughter learned herself by the time she was 5
[00:38] <nixternal> though then she was using Slackware :)
[00:38] <claydoh> mine would too, if I had ever had any
[00:38] <nixternal> lol
[00:38] <DarkwingDuck> lol
[00:38] <nixternal> kids are fun until they are born :p
[00:39] <DarkwingDuck> his computer runs xfce
[00:39] <claydoh> my dogs, tho very smart, just don't get computers at all
[00:39] <nixternal> my dog will pee on my computer if it weren't lifted
[00:39] <DarkwingDuck> that you know of...
[00:39] <nixternal> I kept wondering why my shit would break, open it up and there was a puddle of dog pee in it
[00:39] <DarkwingDuck> claydoh's dog is a NSA hacker <G>
[00:40] <nixternal> ok...need a little break from the computer, then I have some wiki stuff to do and some emails, plus more doc work
[00:40] <claydoh> wouldn't surprise me, my wife can teach our dogs pretty complex stuff actually
[00:40] <nixternal> I really need to put Lucid on my netbook and head upstairs to bed with it...much more comfortable working there :)
[00:40] <DarkwingDuck> ya I'm about to go clean
[00:40] <DarkwingDuck> I should prolly DL lucid
[00:41]  * claydoh needs to get arch off his second laptop, and learn how to write code sometime
[00:44] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: where do I find it at?
[01:05] <ryanakca> nixternal: Typo in http://www.nixternal.com/kubuntu/about/C/kde4gnome.html , 'has to many features' should be 'has too many features'
[01:49] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: oh mighty dbus master, is there a difference between the session bus and the system bus?
[01:49] <JontheEchidna> or just funky naming schemes on the binding's part?
[01:50] <JontheEchidna> nevermind, I'll just read the docs like a good coder
[01:52] <tsimpson> JontheEchidna: they are just the two "common" buses, the system bus typically is for system-wide stuff (like HAL and network manager) and there is only once instance, while the session bus is per-user
[01:52] <JontheEchidna> interesting, thanks.
[01:53]  * JontheEchidna is porting the restricted install dbus bits from update-notifier-kde to C++
[01:53] <JontheEchidna> Man, I just need to keep a simple QObject-based class skeleton file handy.
[01:55]  * tsimpson has "mkinclude" to do that
[01:55] <tsimpson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/325776/
[01:56] <tsimpson> I just run "mkinclude somefile.h -t QtCore"
[01:57] <JontheEchidna> neat
[01:58] <tsimpson> saves valuable seconds :)
[02:09] <DarkwingDuck> Anyone know where I get pull Lucid from?
[02:49]  * logipunk apologises for having gone missing for the past week.
[02:49]  * logipunk wonders if anyone else has turned up with the desire to help with marketing and promotion.
[02:52] <ScottK> logipunk: I don't think so, but I've been at the Ubuntu Developer Summit so I may have missed it.
[02:52] <ScottK> logipunk: I know there was some discussion of revamping the web site.  You ought to talk to ryanakca about that.
[02:53] <logipunk> ScottK: Will do. Thanks.
[02:53] <logipunk> On a lighter note, does anyone else read the Wheel of Time series?
[03:38] <daskreech> Who run kubuntuguide.org ?
[03:38] <daskreech> runs
[03:41] <shtylman> wow...ive never heard of that
[03:41] <daskreech> I've just started noticing stuff that I think may be releated to the Qt 4.6 bugs
[03:42] <daskreech> shtylman: I know I"m really thinking we should promote them more
[03:42] <shtylman> yea... could be good... seems like we could just have wiki pages for most of it
[03:43] <shtylman> I guess people like that it is all in one place...
[03:43] <shtylman> its a really good guide
[03:43] <shtylman> for new users
[03:43] <shtylman> hell...even for common stuff I do that I forget
[03:53] <shtylman> we should probly buy or get kubuntu.com to point to kubuntu.org
[03:53] <daskreech> Yeah we should promote them more :)
[03:54] <daskreech> does canonical own kubuntu.org ?
[03:55] <daskreech> Nightrose: ping
[03:58] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: ping
[04:27] <DarkwingDuck-Net> nixternal: okay... strange. It connects just fine on my netbook. This is crazy
[07:13] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I am not sure it is a good idea to port that without working out a more sensible design first
[08:33] <Nightrose> daskreech: pong
[08:58] <ghostcube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/466935
[08:58] <ghostcube> guys i need anyone can confirm this
[08:58] <ghostcube> this is gettinsg stupid now
[08:58] <ghostcube> i need my webcam for work
[08:59] <ghostcube> and this damn karmic thing doesnt want to do its work with my cam
[12:10] <jussi01> Nightrose: rock on! :D
[12:11] <Nightrose> jussi01: :D
[12:11] <jussi01> Nightrose: btw, are you going to akademy?
[12:12] <Nightrose> i hope so
[12:12]  * jussi01 is also attempting to make it...
[12:12] <Nightrose> i missed the last one and regretted it horribly
[12:16] <Tm_T> jussi01: is too far away this time?
[12:17] <jussi01> Tm_T: huh?
[12:17] <Tm_T> jussi01: you're not saying "I'm there!" (;
[12:18] <Tm_T> "do, there is no try" or what it was anyway
[12:18]  * Tm_T hides
[12:23] <amichair> if a bug in lp is dependent on an upstream bug that was fixed but not yet synced/merged, what status (or other bug parameters) should it have?
[12:26] <Riddell> depends on the upstream policy for that
[12:26] <Riddell> but the launchpad answer would be fix committed
[12:28] <jussi01> should it not be fix commited in lp when it hits our archive?
[12:29] <Tm_T> fix released yes when there's package available to users
[12:29] <jussi01> oh
[12:29] <Tm_T> or that's how I would think it
[12:29] <jussi01> ok then
[12:29] <Riddell> well it should be linked to the upstream bug for the upstream status
[12:30] <amichair> case in point: https://launchpad.net/bugs/133937
[12:31] <amichair> how do I link it to upstream?
[12:31] <Riddell> Also affects project -> software-properties
[12:32] <Riddell> assuming you have the powars to do that
[12:32] <amichair> so fix committed means someone, somewhere commited it, and fix released means it's commited in our trunk?
[12:32] <Riddell> fix released for an ubuntu package would mean it's in the archive
[12:32] <Riddell> fix committed means someone, somewhere commited it
[12:33] <Tm_T> yeah
[12:34] <amichair> also affects? to debian? (see last comment in bug report)
[12:35] <amichair> also what's 'the archive'?
[12:37] <Tm_T> amichair: ubuntu repositories I believe
[12:39] <amichair> does it know to change status to 'fix committed' automatically when the debian report is 'fixed'?
[12:40] <amichair> and I still don't see how I link it to the debian report :-/
[12:43] <amichair> it's not true to say this bug 'also affects' gnupg in debian... it's caused by it, not the other way around
[12:45] <amichair> ok
[12:45] <amichair> did I set it up correctly?
[13:16] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: design of the GUI or dbus spec?
[13:20] <amichair> JontheEchidna: regarding the bug u asked about yesterday and the short chat above, can u take a look and see the bug report looks ok? something seems off...
[13:22] <JontheEchidna> In this case Debian is downstream from us
[13:22] <JontheEchidna> and I personally wouldn't mark it fix committed until the fix is committed to the official software-properties branch
[13:22] <amichair> JontheEchidna: riddell said above that fix commited means it was commited by someone somewhre (e.g. upstream)
[13:23] <JontheEchidna> wait, that debian bug is a gnupg bug, not a software-properties bug
[13:23] <amichair> JontheEchidna: exactly
[13:23] <amichair> and why doesn't it recognize it? the link does work
[13:23] <JontheEchidna> so then you wouldn't involve software-properties in the bug tracker at all
[13:24] <JontheEchidna> you would need to change it from software-properties to gnupg in Launchpad
[13:24] <amichair> but the reported bug is in sp, and it's root cause is gnupg. but it's sp that crashes.
[13:24] <amichair> it's a dependency of sorts
[13:25] <amichair> not a 1:1 bug mapping
[13:26] <JontheEchidna> Oh, in that case you'd do "also affects distro", then mark it as also affecting gnupg in Ubuntu
[13:26] <amichair> instead of the gnupg in debian?
[13:26] <amichair> or in addition?
[13:27] <JontheEchidna> both, I'd say
[13:27] <JontheEchidna> So we can track upstream/Debian for gnupg and track it downstream here as well
[13:27] <amichair> ok, added it
[13:28] <amichair> any idea why the debbugs one sais the bug doesn't exist, even though it links to it?
[13:28] <JontheEchidna> nope :(
[13:29] <amichair> JontheEchidna: ok, now what should the status be for the 3 affects sections?
[13:29] <amichair> oh wait, why did it also add an extra intrepid there?
[13:29] <JontheEchidna> um, dunno. You could close that one as invalid
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> I'd put in progress for software-properties (Ubuntu)
[13:30]  * amichair is all confused with this bug tracker
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> Fix committed for gnupg (Ubuntu)
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> then the upstream bug watcher for gnupg (Debian) should take care of itself
[13:31] <amichair> and sp? fix committed?
[13:31] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[13:31] <amichair> ok, does it look right now?
[13:32] <JontheEchidna> well, that's really just semantics :P
[13:33] <JontheEchidna> oh, whoop. wrong chan
[13:33] <JontheEchidna> looks good, I'll just invalidate the intrepid task here...
[13:33] <amichair> I'm sure it took less time to fix the darn bug[ger] :-)
[13:33] <JontheEchidna> (one popped up for software-properties)
[13:34] <amichair> the one for sp was there before, maybe it used to be real
[13:34] <JontheEchidna> oh, maybe
[13:34] <JontheEchidna> but it's definitely not fixed in intrepid, so. ;-)
[13:36] <amichair> and once it picks up the debian report it will automatically change that one to fix committed?
[13:38] <Riddell> ooh, markey and Mamarok had a release party with real pizza!
[13:38] <amichair> mmmmmm....pizza......
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> amichair: well, it's already marked fix committed for gnupg in Ubuntu since a fix was committed and released in debian
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> somebody just has to merge gnupg from Debian, then they can close the bug for gnupg in debian/changelog
[13:39] <amichair> JontheEchidna: just a general question - it syncs the status automatically from upstreams?
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> for the gnupg (Debian) task, yes.
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> but not instantly. It does take a bit of time for the upstream bug watcher to update the status
[13:40] <amichair> ok then.
[13:40] <amichair> JontheEchidna: thanks a bunch for ur time and explanations...
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> it should show up as fix released in a day or so
[13:41] <JontheEchidna> oh, no problem. It is a bit confusing, looking back at it. :)
[13:41] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I'm at the question-asking stage equivalent of a 5 year old :-)
[13:41] <JontheEchidna> I think we can blame a lot of this on the Launchpad UI, which is the popular thing to do. :P
[13:41] <amichair> I actually like it
[13:42] <amichair> JontheEchidna: btw reagarding youtube-dl, the syncrequest didn't work, it said it can't find it in sid (even though I saw it listed in website)
[13:42] <JontheEchidna> well, in general the ajaxy goodness is awesome, but there are definite design issues in some places
[13:43] <ScottK> I think most of the people that don't like it are long time users who liked older versions better.
[13:43] <JontheEchidna> Hmm "requestsync --lp -d sid youtube-dl lucid" seems to be working for me
[13:44] <amichair> JontheEchidna: well it didn't for me yesterday :-)
[13:44] <JontheEchidna> if it doesn't work for you today I could take care of it if you'd like
[13:44] <amichair> E: 'youtube-dl' doesn't appear to exist in Debian 'sid'
[13:45] <JontheEchidna> strangeish
[13:45] <amichair> oh wait, with --lp it gives me a different error, something about credentials. but still a bug.
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> I think --lp looks for a firefox cookie to find out who you are on launchpad, or at least it did so in the past
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> I use it because the normal email method won't work for me for some reason
[13:48] <amichair> well that first error msg is a problem in any case... dunno what that's about
[13:49] <markey> oh yes, the pizza was great
[13:49] <markey> Frutti di Mare, in fact
[13:49] <markey> nomnomnom
[13:50] <amichair> JontheEchidna: well I just downloaded it directly from homepage, it's just a single py file with no depends. there are 2 bugs open about this in lp, so someone will hopefully pick them up for the LTS.
[13:51] <JontheEchidna> I'll just file the sync request now so that it gets on the archive admin's radar
[13:51] <amichair> JontheEchidna: k, thanks
[13:51] <JontheEchidna> bug 487104
[13:53] <amichair> JontheEchidna: u the dude, dude!
[13:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: both
[13:54] <apachelogger> also, if dbus at all
[13:54] <apachelogger> ...
[13:54]  * apachelogger needs to go find something to eat
[13:57] <JontheEchidna> ok, cool. Right now we're quite flexible in regards to changing the dbus interface.
[13:57] <JontheEchidna> The ui too
[14:00] <JontheEchidna> If we could do away with the "let's keep a list of packages in update-notifier-kde" approach that would be great.
[14:00] <JontheEchidna> If the app could pass a qstringlist of all the packages we should check for, I think that would be better
[14:01] <JontheEchidna> instead of just passing one package, then we see what category it's in, then offer all packages in $CATGEGORY
[14:05] <seele> ooh.. hmm
[14:05] <seele> i got a notification from kpackagekit saying i got updates
[14:05] <seele> but i dont see an icon on the toolbar to click and start the update
[14:05] <JontheEchidna> hmm, doing away with the u-n-k list would mean we'd want a third argument to determine whether to present it as a multimedia package or a semantic desktop package
[14:06] <JontheEchidna> seele: the notification should have a button on it to launch the updates process
[14:07] <JontheEchidna> well, unless you're using Ayatana notifications, in which case you have to start KPK manually :(
[14:07] <seele> JontheEchidna: i
[14:07] <seele> m using ayatana, heh
[14:08] <JontheEchidna> heh, yep. that explains it
[14:08] <seele> this is a problem, is ayatana supposed to launch kpk?
[14:08] <Tm_T> seele: busy?
[14:08] <Riddell> seele: with ayatana you have to launch kpackagekit yourself
[14:09]  * txwikinger is back at work
[14:10] <seele> Riddell: that is stupid
[14:10] <seele> first off, "what is kpackagekit"
[14:10] <seele> second, the message inst in the MI queue anymore
[14:11] <seele> third, kpackagekit isnt in the kickoff menui
[14:11] <seele> so tell me how we expect people to update?
[14:12] <Riddell> seele: as the most notable case of a notification benefiting from actions, it's the main reason why people argue against ayatana
[14:13] <Riddell> ubuntu desktop turned it into a dialogue box
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> KPackageKit shows up in System for me in Kickoff
[14:13] <seele> how is gnome handling updates? launching the update automatically?
[14:13] <seele> JontheEchidna: oh ho, youre right. i missed it when i was looking for it
[14:13]  * amichair thinks kpackagekit and systemsettings should both be top-level easiest-to-find in K menu
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> anyways, the user has to hunt to find KPackageKit
[14:13] <seele> but it still requires people to remember the name, and the reminder is gone because the queue is cleared
[14:14] <ghostcube> hmmm are you discussing update notify oO
[14:14] <ghostcube> its a bit strange in new kde to say it political correct
[14:14] <ScottK> We're dropping the ayatana notification patches for Lucid anyway
[14:14] <Riddell> kpackagekit needs usability love, we all know that
[14:14] <seele> ScottK: i didnt hear, that is good to know
[14:14] <seele> Riddell: is the dev still active? i thought the problem was we didnt have anyone who could do anything very complicated
[14:14] <ScottK> agateau is going to do it in a separate package for Universe if he has time.
[14:15] <amichair> is kpackagekit self maintained or upstream?
[14:15] <Riddell> seele meet dantti
[14:15] <Riddell> amichair: dantti is upstream
[14:15] <Riddell> the main advantage of it for us is that it isn't self maintained
[14:16] <ghostcube> why isnt synaptic posted to qt
[14:16] <ghostcube> so there is synaptic gnome and kde ?
[14:16] <ghostcube> its still one of the best in the wild
[14:16] <ghostcube> ported not posted
[14:16] <seele> dantti: *wave*
[14:17] <amichair> Riddell: when software-props is bug free, maybe I can migrate upstream
[14:20] <dantti> what's up :P
[14:20] <Riddell> amichair: I assumed you were working with the upstream branch, I think there is only an upstream branch
[14:23] <amichair> Riddell: dunno... iirc we already discussed the duplicity of sp. but what I meant is that I can look into kpackagekit if it needs help.
[14:24] <Riddell> main problem with doing any kpackagekit work currently is we're a release behind due to no policykit-1 for KDE
[14:26] <Riddell> but there's plenty stuff I think could be tidied up in it, e.g. installing software uses about three dialogues all of which are too complex when it should just be a single progress bar dialogue plus policykit auth one
[14:26] <Riddell> but it needs a usability spod talking to dantti about really :)
[14:27] <dantti> Riddell: i removed that useless dialog to review the transaction
[14:27] <dantti> but it won't be released till i finish the o.f.pk session interface...
[14:28] <Riddell> dantti: what's that? (o.f.pk session interface)
[14:29] <dantti> Riddell: org.freedesktop.PackageKit DBus interface
[14:30] <dantti> which allows 3rd party applications to do things without coding a new KPK
[14:30] <Riddell> ah hah
[14:30] <dantti> like installPackages('foo,bar') and KPK does all the magic..
[14:31] <Riddell> seele: this may interest you https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidAyatanaIntegration
[14:33] <dantti> Riddell: select behavior on the package list has some new ideas but i didn't had time to code yet..
[14:35] <Riddell> dantti: you're a busy guy :)
[14:36] <Riddell> rgreening: home ok?  jetlag not too bad?
[14:36] <dantti> Riddell: hehe, yes, I'll be even busier next month when the babies comes...
[14:37] <Riddell> !
[14:37] <Riddell> babies?
[14:37] <dantti> Riddell: btw seems like colin didn't like my last idea (dunno why) and they drafted a new idea far more complex.. :P
[14:38] <dantti> Riddell: yup... a couple (a boy and a girl)
[14:38] <Tm_T> dantti: whoppidoo
[14:38] <Tm_T> dantti: busy times ahead (:
[14:39] <dantti> yep... :P
[14:40] <Riddell> dantii->clone()  clever idea, more kpackagekit coders to come :)
[14:41] <Riddell> http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/kubuntu-9-10.html  "Kubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala is very, very nice. It's a pleasant surprise. And it's better than Ubuntu." cor
[14:43] <amichair> where do I find that wallpaper?
[14:43] <Riddell> no idea
[14:44] <dantti> heh
[14:48] <dantti> "Compared to Synaptic, KPackageKit is slower" should try aptcc :P
[14:49] <Riddell> installing packages is never going to be fast
[14:50] <dantti> Riddell: but at least search for them should be ;)
[14:50] <ScottK> Riddell: Nice.  We should get that on the reviews page of the web site.
[14:50] <dantti> Riddell: + aptcc has a parser to know what's going on on the installation
[14:50] <dantti> like unpacking.. and such..
[14:52] <amichair> what's kpk written in?
[14:52] <Riddell> ScottK: interesting how most of his complains are stuff we have lucid plans for
[14:52] <ScottK> Riddell: Perfect.
[14:52] <Riddell> amichair: lots of things, it's a multi layer abstraction
[14:52] <rgreening> Riddell: hey, nope, not bad at all
[14:53] <ScottK> Riddell: Reading on #kde-devel, do we have security patches that need doing:[09:39:24] <icwiener> Might be a stupid question, but is http://securityreason.com/it_news/0/0x31 known by people who can fix it?
[14:53] <ScottK> [09:40:09] <DxSadEagle> icwiener: A fix was commited recently
[14:53] <dantti> amichair: cpp
[14:54] <txwikinger> Wow.. .the world has gone mad - M$ receives a patent for sudo http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390
[14:54] <rgreening> txwikinger: wtf?
[14:54] <Riddell> ScottK: the top one at http://www.kde.org/info/security/ hasn't been done yet
[14:54] <rgreening> haha
[14:55] <txwikinger> well.. Bilski is at the Supreme Court.. that decision will hav an impact on all software patents
[14:56] <ScottK> Riddell: Aye, this sounds like a different one.
[15:06] <mistrynitesh> nixternal: i'm interested in updating the kubuntu documentation... already joined the contributors team and going through the doc-team wiki... will need proper directions
[15:09] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: how about desktop files :P
[15:10] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: and let apps either request installation of one particular package (given it is in $cache of possible packages) or a whole category
[15:10] <apachelogger> oh dear
[15:11] <apachelogger> mon -  thu: gluhwein from the biomedical engineering dudes
[15:11] <apachelogger> from wed - thu also from the chemistry dudes
[15:12] <apachelogger> and on thu also from the VT dudes, whatever VT stands for :D
[15:13] <JontheEchidna> In general the .desktop system would be great. I'm just a bit unsure that changing the entire spec and re-patching all of our apps is a good thing for an LTS
[15:16] <ScottK> Please no.
[15:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: from that perspective knh cant go in anyway
[15:16] <apachelogger> there are bound to be issues
[15:16] <JontheEchidna> Well, if we're going to be reckless. At least we should be carefully reckless :P
[15:17] <Riddell> if you're talking about codec etc package install, the long term way should be with the kpackagkit interface dantti was talking about earlier
[15:17] <Riddell> hi mistrynitesh, stay around and nixternal will appear at some point
[15:18] <nixternal> some point I always appear :)
[15:18] <nixternal> howdy mistrynitesh!
[15:19] <nixternal> heh, Ubuntu Software Center is definitely written with GTK only in mind
[15:19] <nixternal> KPackageKit could be made a bit easier on the eyes
[15:21]  * apachelogger grumbles over the weirdness in ubuntuone's syncdaemon -.-
[15:22] <ScottK> Riddell: Did you ever get a chance to talk to mvo about porting Software Center?
[15:22] <davmor3> nixternal: to be fair most of the gfx work is done in webkit
[15:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: oh, btw, about kbookmark sync for ubuntuone, in the long run it is ultimately best to have that done via akonadi, so the couchdb interaction is handled by akonadi only, everything else just interacts with akonadi
[15:23] <ScottK> davmor3: Yes, but there's still 384 gtk calls and a glib mainloop.  It'll need some rearchitecting to be friendly to multiple front ends.
[15:23] <apachelogger> that said akondi probably needs internal cross syncing (i.e. allow my filebased vcard resource to autosync with the couchdb resource)
[15:24] <nixternal> davmor3: ya, checking out the latest kpackagekit now
[15:24] <ScottK> Somewhat like rgreening's head pounding over usb-creator last cycle, but an order of magnitude harder.
[15:24] <apachelogger> so the application places the information once and doesnt even have to care about it going to couchdb as well
[15:24] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: so in the future, applications can call packagekit via D-Bus to install codecs and such without the help of an external app/daemon?
[15:25] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the idea is to do it via cmdline args I think
[15:25] <apachelogger> you can already see the begining of this
[15:25] <rgreening> :)
[15:25] <JontheEchidna> If so, a drop-in implementation of the current org.kubuntu.restrictedInstall D-Bus API for Kubuntu Notification Helper would be perfect until then.
[15:25] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: well it'll need the packagekit daemon but nothing much beyond that
[15:26] <JontheEchidna> basically we won't have to do anything in kubuntu-notification-helper, once the apps can call PackageKit
[15:26]  * rgreening wishes ubuntu software engineering would adopt the MVC architechture and write with explicit thoughts on front-end/back-end...
[15:26] <davmor3> ScottK: Ah I see
[15:27]  * ScottK thinks rgreening should blog about it.
[15:27] <rgreening> hmm. hornets nest...
[15:27] <rgreening> bzzzzzz
[15:27] <apachelogger> hum
[15:28]  * apachelogger broke his gnome ubuntuone applet :D
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: oh, another thing I wanted to discuss with you. Now that we have a KCM, we give the user an opportunity to modify the settings outside of the app
[15:28] <apachelogger> dbus
[15:28] <nixternal> rgreening: don't be scared...I have pissed off many by blogging in the hornets nest...see, you and I are big enough to squash the hornets though :D
[15:28] <apachelogger> reloadConfig()
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> k, I was thinking that too
[15:28] <apachelogger> I think kwin got a reference implementation for that
[15:29] <nixternal> just don't fall asleep in the hornets nest though, you might suck one up into your nose :p
[15:29] <rgreening> nixternal: hah.... true.. its not like I am being hired by them...
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> ooh, I should check kwin out then
[15:29] <nixternal> rgreening: right, you don't have to worry, they don't hire anyone that idles in this channel :p
[15:29] <apachelogger> oh
[15:30] <apachelogger> indeed I broke my ubuntuone daemon
[15:30] <apachelogger> I wonder how
[15:30] <apachelogger> -.-
[15:30] <nixternal> hehe
[15:31] <rgreening> heh
[15:31] <ScottK> apachelogger: statik said something at UDS about them planing on doing some work to split out front end/back end for Ubuntu One client to make stuff like a KDE front end easier.
[15:31] <ScottK> You might want to ask of get nixternal to use his local connection to find out what they are planning
[15:32] <apachelogger> nixternal: what they are planning?
[15:32] <apachelogger> ScottK: thx
[15:33]  * apachelogger notes that the real pitfalls with frontend speration is that currently auth is handled inside the applet and stuff is stored in the gnome-keyring
[15:35] <nixternal> oh yeah, forgot about that connection :)
[15:36] <rgreening> apachelogger: policykit fixes those issues
[15:36] <rgreening> apachelogger: we used policykit for usb-creator
[15:36] <apachelogger> rgreening: what issues?
[15:36] <apachelogger> auth as in oauth to the ubuntuone server
[15:36] <apachelogger> nothing polkit can do here :)
[15:37] <apachelogger> the fdo shared keyring stuff would help though
[15:37] <rgreening> oh...
[15:37] <rgreening> true
[15:41]  * apachelogger blinks
[15:41] <rgreening> A great talk on an app for getting, launching and testing ISO's from UDS... an app called testdrive. we should promote using this for out testers this cycle: https://launchpad.net/~testdrive/+archive/ppa
[15:41] <apachelogger> apparently the freakin daemon crashes
[15:42] <nixternal> rgreening: testdrive is nice :)
[15:42] <nixternal> though that only allows you to test the live cd environment
[15:42] <rgreening> maybe we can add this (once uploaded to archive) as a recommends on kubuntu-dev-tools
[15:43] <nixternal> I would like to add to that script the option to create the img and qcow, and then install
[15:43] <nixternal> if using qemu of course
[15:43]  * apachelogger is suprised how crappy the ubuntu one web interface is
[15:43] <rgreening> nixternal: talk to dustin.. he's open for suggestions
[15:43] <nixternal> rgreening: that he is
[15:43] <rgreening> :P
[15:44] <nixternal> ok, I need some coding tasks for in between doc writing
[15:44] <nixternal> otherwise I will burn out
[15:45] <Riddell> nixternal: since you have mistrynitesh_ and DarkwingDuck volunteering for docs tasks maybe start by working out what they can do?
[15:46] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck is already rocking on the netbook stuff...next step is to make sure his work is good, he understands bzr, and then give him commit access...which I am sure is going to happen rather quickly...as he seems to be rocking away w/o many questions, and without me telling him a damn thing he figured out the workflow 110% on his own...and that isn't even documented anywhere :)
[15:46] <nixternal> waiting for mistrynitesh_ to respond :)
[15:47] <mistrynitesh_> nixternal, sorry got disconnected for a while, so out of sync
[15:49] <mistrynitesh_> as for what i can do... i satisfy only the first two qualifications as you mentioned in the email
[15:51] <mistrynitesh_> i need to learn about docbook/xml and bzr
[15:51] <nixternal> which were? :p  I forgot them already
[15:51] <nixternal> oh
[15:51] <nixternal> groovy
[15:51] <nixternal> how are your HTML or other markup language skills?
[15:51] <nixternal> if I were to ask for a simple web page could you do it?
[15:51] <mistrynitesh_> nixternal, i use kubuntu fairly well and can read and write english... can that help?
[15:51] <nixternal> most definitely
[15:52] <nixternal> the reason I ask about the web page thing, is because docbook is simple markup. there are a ton of tags that can be used, however we probably only use about 10 of the available tags...maybe a little more
[15:52] <nixternal> once you take a look at the old docs, compare them to what you see in KHelpCenter, you can learn it fairly quickly
[15:54] <nixternal> we already have a template for our docs, so the major meat and potatos have already been covered...you just need to fill in the space between the <sect1> tags, so really you might use 5 tags
 at least, maybe a <sect2> here or there, <title>, <para>, <itemizedlist>, <listitem>, <ulink>...and if you use an image there are a few more tags...pretty easy actually
[15:56] <nixternal> brb
[15:56] <mistrynitesh_> ok
[15:58] <dantti> nixternal: what's your suggestion then?
[15:58] <dantti> nixternal: *to kpk...
[15:59] <nixternal> ahh, I knew your name looked familiar....I just realized we are using an antique pk/kpk...the new stuff is nice :)
[16:02] <dantti> nixternal: k :P if you have some suggestions please say so :D
[16:12] <apachelogger> *sigh*
[16:13] <nixternal> hrmm, I see a ftbfs patch in our kpk in karmic....where is the ftwp patch (failed to work properly) :p
[16:19] <seele> Riddell: that document is confusing, i thought ScottK said we are dropping ayatana notifications in Lucid
[16:20] <ScottK> seele: That's all about systray stuff.  The one notification thing we agreed to was to accept patches to make actionless notifications from KDE apps sane if someone was running them from Ubuntu
[16:30] <ScottK> Riddell: I read on kde-devel that we'll need to either patch our Qt phonon or somehow switch back to the KDE one due to the recent Pulse Audio integration changes.
[16:31] <Tm_T> ScottK: this too? http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-commits&m=125867642311944&w=2
[16:32] <ScottK> Tm_T: OK.
[16:32] <ScottK> Riddell: It might be nice if some distro people complained to Qt about maybe updating Phonon before release ....
[16:33] <Riddell> ScottK: oh we do
[16:33] <Riddell> I think the current answer is "not for 4.6.0, maybe for 4.6.1"
[16:35] <ScottK> OK.  That actually works reasonably well for is, I'd think.
[16:40] <Riddell> oh qtwebkit, do you really need to take an hour to link?
[16:41] <Tm_T> Riddell: khtml is slow to build too...
[16:42] <Riddell> seele: "ayatana-notifications will not be kept as a patch"
[16:48] <Riddell> which actually I think is unnecessary
[16:49] <nixternal> Nightrose: for your junior jobs thing, myself and jcastro had an idea of like an "open source craigslist" where people could post stuff like that...I actually had/have a mockup for an Ubuntu one we dubbed "Ubuntu Wanted"
[16:50] <Nightrose> nixternal: well the problem is we have enough of those places already...
[16:50] <Nightrose> and none of them well maintained
[16:50] <ScottK> The bigger problem is it often takes experienced people more time to mark something junior job than to fix it themselves.
[16:50] <Nightrose> so honestly i don't want yet another place to post junior jobs to
[16:51] <nixternal> do you have a link to one of those places that isn't a bug tracker or wiki page?
[16:51] <ScottK> So they need to make a decision to invest the time in getting new contributors.
[16:51] <Riddell> ScottK++
[16:51] <nixternal> ScottK: yeah, and also remember that many of the experienced people are 'scratching their own itch' and they don't want someone elses fingers doing the scratching some times :)
[16:52] <Nightrose> nixternal: mostly bug trackers and wiki pages afaict
[16:53] <nixternal> I think all of the documentation EVERYWHERE concerning "Getting Involved" or "Contributing" needs to be maintained first....pretty much all of it is out of date
[16:53] <Riddell> I don't see why you wouldn't
[16:53] <nixternal> Riddell: I don't see why either, but it just happens that way
[16:53] <ScottK> nixternal: I don't know anyone that doesn't want help.  The problem is you have to invest in getting  useful help (like we do with #ubuntu-motu) and most people just want the help and won't invest in gettting it.
[16:54] <nixternal> ScottK: yeah, which is a lot of the users I have noticed
[16:54] <nixternal> I figure in time that will change, as many of the users here are coming from Windows, and are used to not being able to do anything to help
[16:55] <Tm_T> nixternal: you can see something similar in support channels, people are not fancy to tell things enough so they could be helped
[16:55] <Tm_T> or so I feel sometimes anyway
[16:55] <nixternal> and people who aren't used to being able to help or contribute, end up trying it out, and either jumping in too deep or too quick, leading to either burn out or an overwhelming experience
[16:56] <nixternal> Tm_T: ya, I have noticed it as well...which is weird....most people who come from a windows background, when they have an issue, there is only one place to go, and that is Google...err, 2 places, the other being their techy friend
[17:11] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://gitorious.org/ubuntuone-client-kde/ubuntuone-client-kde/commit/8731c06a5eb4610f657ed1ac0abbba1fdc8da893
[17:13] <JontheEchidna> hmm, KJob, eh. Never worked with that before
[17:13] <JontheEchidna> this is supposed to make a fancy progress dialog?
[17:13] <apachelogger> me either :P
[17:13] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://aplg.kollide.net/screencasts/ubuntuone-kde-kjob1.ogv
[17:14] <apachelogger> supposed to
[17:14] <apachelogger> the progress is fancy
[17:14] <apachelogger> the dialog is not
[17:14]  * apachelogger would like a combo of progress bar + regular notification widget
[17:15] <JontheEchidna> chrome's ogg player is fancy
[17:15] <ScottK> apachelogger: Maybe ask debfx what he did for brightness beautifulness right before release (had to drop it due to string additions, but it was pretty)
[17:15] <apachelogger> debfx: what did you do for brightness beautifulness right before release?
[17:16] <apachelogger> indeed a screenshot would be interesting :D
[17:16] <debfx> apachelogger: the code was from kosd: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KOSD?content=81457
[17:16] <apachelogger> oh
[17:16] <apachelogger> osd doesnt qualify anyway :|
[17:16] <apachelogger> debfx: thanks though
[17:17] <apachelogger> ScottK: I think upstream just should fix their classes :P
[17:17] <ScottK> Sure.  Get them right on that.
[17:17]  * apachelogger doesnt see why the kjob ui presentation can't hold some fancy icon and more dynamic text
[17:18] <ScottK> debfx: Have you thought about stuff you'd be interested in helping with this cycle?  You did some really good stuff at the end in Karmic.
[17:19]  * apachelogger is wondering whether reimplementing knotificationitem would help
[17:28] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna, ScottK: I suppose we only have the following options: a) reinvent the wheel b) do what the gnome ui does and abuse tooltips for progress indication (which btw would still look hotter than gnome) c) poke upstram and start whining
[17:29] <ScottK> apachelogger: My vote would be start with C and fall back to B if C doesn't work.
[17:29] <JontheEchidna> maybe a mixture of b and c?
[17:29] <apachelogger> yeah, that could be done
[17:29]  * apachelogger thinks that JontheEchidna would be perfect to implement c :P
[17:29] <JontheEchidna> aiee
[17:32] <amichair> apachelogger: I'm not sure what exactly you're discussing, but copying a file shows a progressbar in notification... does that help?
[17:35] <JontheEchidna> That's what he's finding to be too limited for his usecase
[17:36] <amichair> oh, it sounded like missing progress indication. nm.
[17:37] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, he has the progress notification, but he wants to put in a bit of text too to show what's going on
[17:37] <amichair> speaking of, there's no more a pause/cancel option in the notification when copying a file as there used to be :-(
[17:40] <amichair> it does make sense to be able to put any widget in the notification so apps can go crazy if they need to (and simple defaults if they don't)
[17:46] <JontheEchidna> probably something to discuss with KDE
[17:47] <JontheEchidna> though I would say that it would probably be better to just be able to pass a string and maybe an icon along
[17:47] <JontheEchidna> y'know, the whole data/presenatation separation thing
[17:48] <amichair> those are the simple defaults I was referring to :-)
[17:50] <amichair> oh wait... when clicked in the wierd icon in th ecorner, it opens up a larger copy dialog, with pause, stop, text, button, mb copied... a whole lot of stuff
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> argh. What's wrong: Object::connect: No such signal QListWidget::itemChanged(QListWidgetItem *item)
[17:51] <amichair> it looks pretty flexible actually...
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> connect(listWidget, SIGNAL(itemChanged(QListWidgetItem *item)), SLOT(packageToggled(QListWidgetItem *item)));
[17:53]  * JontheEchidna fiddles with things
[17:53] <amichair> JontheEchidna: are those supposed to be strings? or only in py?
[17:53] <JontheEchidna> only in python
[17:53] <apachelogger> :D
[17:53] <apachelogger> hrrrr
[18:00] <Sput> JontheEchidna: you're not supposed to have variable names in the connect()
[18:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://aplg.kollide.net/screencasts/ubuntuone-kde2.ogv
[18:00] <rgreening> konqueror + akonadi = bookmarks as a resource Riddell.. its in for 4.4 haha
[18:00] <apachelogger> muahaha
[18:01] <apachelogger> now we just need to mature the couchdb stuff along
[18:01] <JontheEchidna> I originally tried connect(listWidget, SIGNAL(itemChanged(const QListWidgetItem &)), SLOT(packageToggled(const QListWidgetItem &)));
[18:02] <Sput> JontheEchidna: well, what's the signal's signature?
[18:02] <JontheEchidna> signature?
[18:02] <JontheEchidna> void QListWidget::itemChanged ( QListWidgetItem * item ) ?
[18:03] <Sput> yeah
[18:03] <Sput> so use QListWidgetItem *
[18:03] <Sput> but no variable name :)
[18:03] <Sput> SIGNAL() and SLOT() are string-based
[18:03] <Quintasan|Szel> apachelogger: can you do me favour? I need  someone to test Parley from karmic-proposed and tell whether the patch elimates the issue or not. I'm ill and it doesnt looks like I will be able to get onto my machine this weel '
[18:04] <Quintasan|Szel> apachelogger: the problem is that Parley displays a nag messgae that few scripts are not working
[18:04] <JontheEchidna> oh, that worked. I'm sure I tried that at one point... maybe I forgot make install once
[18:04] <JontheEchidna> Sput: thanks
[18:04] <Sput> np
[18:05] <Sput> I've suffered from that mistake before :)
[18:05] <Quintasan|Szel> s/weel/week
[18:06]  * rgreening is reading the kde 4.4 feature list... and notes "DONE	 Kopete	 Create avatars from a webcam device	Alex Fiestas <alex@eyeos.org >"
[18:06] <rgreening> :)
[18:06] <rgreening> Ubuntu has a UDS spec for this, and we get it for free... YAY!
[18:07] <JontheEchidna> How would I pass on the QListWidgetItem to my SLOT?
[18:07] <amichair> so they are strings, but the quotes are in the macro or something?
[18:07] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: maybe you should write a maily :)
[18:08] <apachelogger> or I could write a maily :)
[18:08] <apachelogger> someone really needs to write a maily though :)
[18:08]  * apachelogger fix0rs a bug
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: oh, and sweetness on the latest .ogg
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> well, tooltip abuse sweetness :D
[18:08] <apachelogger> well, the kstatusnotifieritem tooltip is made to be abused
[18:09] <debfx> ScottK: I'm definitely interested in the firefox kde integration. is there a list of things that need attention?
[18:09] <apachelogger> it is way too hot
[18:09] <apachelogger> just compare it with a regular ksystrayicon tooltip
[18:09] <apachelogger> this is so superior to gnome :P
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[18:09] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ debfx wants the list of stuff to work on.
[18:09] <apachelogger> anyhow
[18:09] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: there is a bug in the screencast :P
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> "respect mah superioritah"
[18:09] <Quintasan|Szel> apachelogger: well I would but that fcking phone disconnects everytime I do something important :S
[18:09] <apachelogger> hah
[18:09] <apachelogger> fix0red now
[18:10] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: got a bug numba at least?
[18:10] <debfx> is ubuntu one going to get client side encryption anytime soon? I think it's pretty useless without it
[18:10] <Quintasan|Szel> hmm, let me check
[18:10]  * txwikinger agrees with rgreening about MVC
[18:10] <Quintasan|Szel> apachelogger: bug 484802
[18:11] <Riddell> debfx: a list of things that need attention for firefox KDE integration?
[18:11] <Quintasan|Szel> rgreening:  but the bug about links in status messages not being clickable is in BZ since 3.5 :P
[18:11] <debfx> Riddell: kubuntu in general
[18:12] <Riddell> debfx: it's all in the specs at KubuntuLucidSpecs, I'll be turning them into a Todo list in the next day or so
[18:13] <rgreening> Quintasan|Szel: ?
[18:13] <Riddell> debfx: but for firefox if you can do debdiffs against current lucid packages with the latest suse patches that would be great, and submit the kmozillathing to revu
[18:14] <rgreening> KDE + Firefox seems a strange marriage, I wonder what the offspring will look like :)
[18:15] <rgreening> shtylman hasn't told me to use chromium yet today...
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> use chromium :D
[18:16] <JontheEchidna> it's sweet
[18:19] <JontheEchidna> and yay! Selection is working now
[18:20] <Quintasan|Szel> rgreening: FirefoKs? :D
[18:24] <apachelogger> emit mailSent();
[18:29] <JontheEchidna> emit installParleyCalled();
[18:30] <ScottK> emit goFindThePowerCable();
[18:30] <ScottK> Before the battery dies entirely
[18:31] <apachelogger> oh my
[18:36] <debfx> Riddell: currently kmozillahelper uses the firefox icon in the open/save dialogs, but a) ubuntu has different brandings with different icon names and b) kmozillahelper can also be called from other applications
[18:36] <apachelogger> I knew it ...
[18:37]  * apachelogger leaves for first, but probably not last gluhwein this week -.-
[18:41] <debfx> i'll just use the folder icon
[18:44] <Nightrose> apachelogger: i still get an error about wiktionary-sound when starting parley
[18:44] <Nightrose> all up to date with proposed enabled
[18:48] <ScottK> Riddell: I got a security minion possibly looking into the KDE stuff we discussed earlier
[19:21] <dhillon-v10> nixternal, so, how are we going about the docs. any specifcs that you want to target first
[19:54] <rgreening> Riddell: Can you update the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-lucid-file-sharing spec and assign to me?
[20:11] <ScottK> Any suggestions on http://paste.ubuntu.com/326337/ - Quassel 0.5.1 gets through configure fine on Karmic, so I expect it's a bug in our Qt 4.6.
[20:15] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Would you please link me on your kubuntu-dev application again?
[20:15] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JonathanThomas/KubuntuDevApplication
[20:16] <ScottK> Thanks
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> No prob.
[20:16] <JontheEchidna> \o/ codec installer working just as it does in update-notifier-kde
[20:22] <JontheEchidna> I need to blog soon
[20:41]  * txwikinger wonders why kwin is crashing all the time
[20:43] <ScottK> txwikinger: What video?  Pretty stable here with my Intel stuff
[20:49] <Daskreech> Is the Phonon rebuild happening?
[20:52] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Commented.  I don't think you'll be upset.
[20:52] <Daskreech> Ah Lucid forces grub2
[20:53] <ScottK> On install, but not upgrade
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: thank you very much
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> Where do I submit the application once it's complete?
[20:54] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Does the process document say?
[20:55] <ScottK> If not, it's a bug in the process.
[20:55]  * JontheEchidna tries to recall the wiki page for the process
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDevelopers
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> ok, kubuntu-devel
[20:56] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: You were wondering about kubuntu-dev too^
[21:01] <rgreening> ty JontheEchidna
[21:01] <rgreening> Riddell: ping ping ping
[21:02] <rgreening> Riddell: I've written the spec for filesharing. However, I'd like you to give it a review...
[21:02] <rgreening> Riddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidFileSharing
[21:03] <rgreening> Riddell: also, I need you to assign the LP blueprint to me as well...
[21:05] <txwikinger> ScottK: I have Intel too
[21:05] <txwikinger> I think there was some dbus problem
[21:05]  * txwikinger did the m$ fix
[21:25] <txwikinger> well.. that does not work either
[21:26] <txwikinger> somehow I have a dbus-daemon sucking 100% CPU
[21:26] <txwikinger> and it gets restarted everytime I restart the computer, but as my user account.. i.e. it is started by kde
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> http://imagebin.ca/view/5MpSGuP.html <- codec notification, now it can tell you what wants to install things
[21:28]  * JontheEchidna thinks restrictively-licensed is less scary than "restricted packages"
[21:49] <txwikinger> Where is the konqueror history gone?
[21:56] <Daskreech> wow the Qt 4.6 update is really screing stuff up
[21:59] <txwikinger> well.. my system has already problems before the update :)
[22:10] <ryanakca> Riddell: agy replied to the RT
[22:16] <Daskreech> Konqueror randomly can't visit websites Skype crashes everytime I answer someone Phonon is screwed up Kopete only connects if I open it close it then open it again
[22:27] <Daskreech> Ah notifications don't work
[22:27] <Daskreech> Well non plasma ones
[22:46] <JontheEchidna> 4.6 works fairly well for me. The only thing is that plasma crashes 1/4 times when I open new windows. (KPixmapCache crash, so not really plasma's fault)
[22:47] <Daskreech> I run plasma like 1/2 of the time
[22:54] <Daskreech> actually maybe 1/4